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Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Project OU Theorymon
- Thread starter heritage
- Start date
AD impish john
Consumed by Darkness...
Cobalion + Magnet Pull (Honestly this is the best one)
Honorable Mention: Mega Camerupt + Desolate Land
Honorable Mention: Mega Camerupt + Desolate Land
InfernapeTropius11
get on my level
Magnet Pull Cobalion
Honorable Mention: Prankster Infernape
Honorable Mention: Prankster Infernape
Cobalion + Magnet Pull
Honorable Mention: Mega Garchomp + Weak Armor
Honorable Mention: Mega Garchomp + Weak Armor
Drought Torterra
Honourable Mention: Thick Fat Gogoat
Honourable Mention: Thick Fat Gogoat
Cobalion + Magnet Pull
Honorable Mention: Umbreon + Magic Bounce
Honorable Mention: Umbreon + Magic Bounce
Torterra and Drought
HM: Mega Tyranitar and Sand Force
HM: Mega Tyranitar and Sand Force
Magnet Pull Cobalion
Honorable Mention: Prankster Infernape
Honorable Mention: Prankster Infernape
Drought Torterra (since i was the one who came up with it the last time :p )
HM: Magnet pull Cobalion
I love cobalion and this actually gives him yet another niche.
HM: Magnet pull Cobalion
I love cobalion and this actually gives him yet another niche.
For your honorable mention vote, you can't vote for something that's on the slate. You have to vote for something that's on the honorable mention list:
- Infernape + Prankster
- Tornadus + Competitive
- Noivern + Nasty Plot
- Umbreon + Unaware
- Typhlosion + Drought
- Spiritomb + Dark Aura
- Glalie + Dragon Dance
- Mega Tyranitar + Sand Force
- Umbreon + Magic Bounce
- Mega Garchomp + Weak Armor
- Jolteon + Spikes
- Ghost / Fighting Mega Banette + Drain Punch
- Mega Camerupt + Desolate Land
- Thick Fat Gogoat
- Electric / Dark Thundurus-T
- Tornadus + Competitive
- Noivern + Nasty Plot
- Umbreon + Unaware
- Typhlosion + Drought
- Spiritomb + Dark Aura
- Glalie + Dragon Dance
- Mega Tyranitar + Sand Force
- Umbreon + Magic Bounce
- Mega Garchomp + Weak Armor
- Jolteon + Spikes
- Ghost / Fighting Mega Banette + Drain Punch
- Mega Camerupt + Desolate Land
- Thick Fat Gogoat
- Electric / Dark Thundurus-T
Cobalion + Magnet Pull
Honorable Mention: Gogoat + Thick Fat
Honorable Mention: Gogoat + Thick Fat
Torterra + Drought
Honorable Mention: Umbreon + Unaware
Also, If one Umbreon set wins HM, will the other one be removed?
Honorable Mention: Umbreon + Unaware
Also, If one Umbreon set wins HM, will the other one be removed?
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Alright, everyone! The voting period has now come to a close, which means we have a new slate for you all!
So the votes from last slate were very close this time (by a single vote!), but, as you all know, one champion has to stand out from the others in order to win. Anyway, here's our latest Theorymon winner:
+ Drought
The votes went as follow:
Torterra + Drought: 21
Cobalion + Magnet Pull: 20 (joins the list of honorable mentions!)
Klinklang + Technician and Bulldoze: 6
Mismagius + Ghost / Electric-typing and Volt Switch: 1 :( *cries in the corner*
We also have one honorable mention that will join us in our beautiful metagame!
The new slate is:
+ Ground-typing (replaces Normal-typing) (Credit to Blumenwitz)
+ Poison / Dark-typing and Regenerator (Credit to Froggyboy)
+ Rock / Fairy-typing and Sand Stream
+ Guts (Credit to ShatteredSummers)
Have fun discussing and good luck to all submissions!!!
So the votes from last slate were very close this time (by a single vote!), but, as you all know, one champion has to stand out from the others in order to win. Anyway, here's our latest Theorymon winner:
The votes went as follow:
Torterra + Drought: 21
Cobalion + Magnet Pull: 20 (joins the list of honorable mentions!)
Klinklang + Technician and Bulldoze: 6
Mismagius + Ghost / Electric-typing and Volt Switch: 1 :( *cries in the corner*
We also have one honorable mention that will join us in our beautiful metagame!
Please give a warm welcome to...
+ Ghost / Fighting-typing and Drain Punch
The new slate is:
Have fun discussing and good luck to all submissions!!!
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Ooh interesting slate.
Miltank + Ground-type immediately strikes me as pretty interesting. While its offenses are nothing spectacular, with Sap Sipper or Thick Fat it serves as an excellent bulkmon to tank physical attacks. However, there's one problem that I see immediately and that's this.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Miltank: 482-570 (122.6 - 145%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Yep, that's a guaranteed OHKO off Timid Specs Keldeo with significant SpD investment and no hazards on the field. Of course Miltank gets all sorts of weird moves like Thunder(bolt) and Thunder Wave and can cripple Keldeo on the switch if it feels like doing that, but that requires significant prediction and Thunderbolt isn't doing much to Keldeo anyhow.
4 SpA Miltank Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 88-104 (27.2 - 32.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Yeah no.
Poison / Dark Muk + Regenerator is really cool. The typing has been tried by Drapion, who sees some low-ladder usage but never could really make it in OU, as well as Skuntank but lol @ that thing in OU. However, Muk has a better stat spread than the other two and Regenerator is really fucking good so I think this might work out in OU as a bulky pivot who spreads Poison and uses Pain Split to stay healthy in tight situations. It also gets Memento for some setup shenanigans and Mud-Slap is a good tool for annoying people :P
Rock/Fairy Regirock + Sand Stream is... what? What even? Sorry, I don't see how this helps. I thought regular Diancie proved this typing does not work. I mean, look at this.
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock: 280-336 (76.9 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That is coming off of 200 base Defense, 80 HP, full investment, and no hazards on the field. That typing is just terrible when facing anything with a Steel-type move and you will get CRUSHED by Scizor. That being said, it does make a pretty cool alternative Sand setter I guess, and now it has a good Special Defense, but... ehhhhhhhhh.
Escavalier + Guts just sort of befuddles me, before I try to say anything on this guy, I'd like to ask, isn't this just a worse Scizor that can absorb Burn (and Para because it wouldn't outspeed anything anyway)? Why would I use this?
Miltank + Ground-type immediately strikes me as pretty interesting. While its offenses are nothing spectacular, with Sap Sipper or Thick Fat it serves as an excellent bulkmon to tank physical attacks. However, there's one problem that I see immediately and that's this.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Miltank: 482-570 (122.6 - 145%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Yep, that's a guaranteed OHKO off Timid Specs Keldeo with significant SpD investment and no hazards on the field. Of course Miltank gets all sorts of weird moves like Thunder(bolt) and Thunder Wave and can cripple Keldeo on the switch if it feels like doing that, but that requires significant prediction and Thunderbolt isn't doing much to Keldeo anyhow.
4 SpA Miltank Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 88-104 (27.2 - 32.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Yeah no.
Poison / Dark Muk + Regenerator is really cool. The typing has been tried by Drapion, who sees some low-ladder usage but never could really make it in OU, as well as Skuntank but lol @ that thing in OU. However, Muk has a better stat spread than the other two and Regenerator is really fucking good so I think this might work out in OU as a bulky pivot who spreads Poison and uses Pain Split to stay healthy in tight situations. It also gets Memento for some setup shenanigans and Mud-Slap is a good tool for annoying people :P
Rock/Fairy Regirock + Sand Stream is... what? What even? Sorry, I don't see how this helps. I thought regular Diancie proved this typing does not work. I mean, look at this.
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock: 280-336 (76.9 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That is coming off of 200 base Defense, 80 HP, full investment, and no hazards on the field. That typing is just terrible when facing anything with a Steel-type move and you will get CRUSHED by Scizor. That being said, it does make a pretty cool alternative Sand setter I guess, and now it has a good Special Defense, but... ehhhhhhhhh.
Escavalier + Guts just sort of befuddles me, before I try to say anything on this guy, I'd like to ask, isn't this just a worse Scizor that can absorb Burn (and Para because it wouldn't outspeed anything anyway)? Why would I use this?
PRAISE THE SUN!
Sorry, been meaning to do that one. Will have nother one if i get something else or if we agree on it.
Of this slate i enjoy all of these. I love slates with NU mons, and we have three! Two of these are above in my mind really....
Muk is a favorite of mine for reasons from the anime and junk but as a mon it is lackluster. Yet it needed two buffs to abuse itself to a higher level, and it is the might of the stench.
This fella can be a great mon to use to absorb hits and be able to hit back with moderate power. He has some excellent resistances and while ya it isnt fast at all, an AV set to be posted by one our council members is beautiful. I love dark poison types and to give Muk a way of healing while abusing its usable defenses is always a plus in my book.
Then Miltank.....it becomes a ground type woth two things the mighty Hippowdon would kill for. Thick Fat and Sap sipper. For a ground type to choose its resistances/immunities adds a whole new way of attacking it, and miltank has quite a parge amount of respectable bulk to abuse. It is a stapl mon that is arguably a pain in the ass to fight and its in a way a dofferent Hippowdon. No it doesnt have a STAB on rollout but damn it man, it shall still be the destroyer of lives!
So my choice becomes the Cow of Ground of the Sludge of Regeneration. One day our answer will come to who i choose but damn i love both options a hell of a lot.
Mega Baenette and Torterra? Today's a good day!
Okay, so this slate looks like a lot of cool sleeper threats.
- Hippowdon's got competition now. The upside is that Miltank's got quite a few nice support options that Hippowdon lacks, including Heal Bell and Thunder Wave, plus it has a couple abilities with great synergy in Thick Fat and Sap Sipper. The former makes dealing with Electric types that much easier, since they can't even do notable damage with HP Ice anymore. The latter turns you into a full Serperior counter, which is hilarious. The downsides are that Hippowdon is quite a bit bulkier than Miltank, hits a little harder, and has access to Whirlwind. This means that despite the considerable overlap, they still have specific things that they do better than the other. This one seems like a strong choice.
- RIP Drapion. This takes any potential niche Drapion might have had and puts it into a much more useful body. Regenerator means that Muk will be able to switch into things like Gengar, Clefable, and Mega Alakazam consistantly over the length of a match without being worn down too quickly due to hazards and repeated hits. It's a shame this guy doesn't get any great Dark STABs (I guess Payback is okay?), but it still has a pretty varied movepool so you can pick what you want to hit. Muk yeah!
- Okay this thing is an actual monster. 80 / 200 / 100 x 1.5 defenses are absolutely absurd, and the fairy typing does nothing but help this guy, being able to tangle with both forms of Charizard without fear. Unfortunately it still doesn't have any form of recovery and doesn't hit particularly hard, so Tyranitar isn't going anywhere soon, but as with Miltank, this makes for another excellent choice.
- Excavalier is one of my favorite mons, but I'm not sure what this one is doing exactly. I suppose it makes for a better Pursuit trapper than Scizor thanks to its improved bulk, but I don't know what kind of status users you'd want to deal with. Clefable still runs Flamethrower over Thunder Wave at times, most burn inflicters are Fire types so have fun with that, and it's immune to Toxic so that doesn't help. I suppose it could be useful against Thundurus and it does well against Mega Sableye, but I don't think this buff is enough to push it into viability. An SD set might have some use as a mock-Heracross, but at that point I'd probably just run Heracross. All in all, this one is useful but still outclassed by its fellow bugs.
Uh I totally forgot about Scald. Yeah this is pretty damn good, makes for a nice check to stuff like Starmie and Keldeo. I guess the italicized stuff still is somewhat relevant, but take it with a grain of salt.
Okay, so this slate looks like a lot of cool sleeper threats.
Uh I totally forgot about Scald. Yeah this is pretty damn good, makes for a nice check to stuff like Starmie and Keldeo. I guess the italicized stuff still is somewhat relevant, but take it with a grain of salt.
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I'll comment on the rest later, but...... this is why. It's been specifically designed for defensive teams that don't want to worry about which Zard your opponent has, without using up the Mega slot.
In a sandstorm, Regi becomes seriously bulky on both sides of the spectrum:
252 Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Regirock: 120-142 (32.9 - 39%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Regirock: 194-230 (53.2 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Regirock in Sand: 146-174 (40.1 - 47.8%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
With its massive support movepool, it can prove useful to defensive teams, and combines well with a wish passer like 'mola, while also having the possibility of going offensive with moves like curse, Drain Punch, etc.
Aside from the Steel weakness (the users of which are super obvious anyway), its typing's pretty tasty in the sand.
EDIT:
To those hating on Escavalier, imagine a world where fishing for a burn got you a big huge megahorn in the arse. Yes, that world can exist!
Switching in on scalds/will-o-wisps without fear is a massive thing - AV escavalier is pretty useful anyway, but becomes even more so with this.
rip klinklang
+ Ground typing replacing Normal:
I'm on the fence about this. On one hand, you have a bulky Ground type with either an immunity to Grass for Mega Venu and Serperior, or Thick Fat to take on Fire and Ice types. On the other hand, Hippowdon already handles most things Miltank would be an answer to, but with better overall bulk, more attack, and Whirlwind. I guess the speed is nice, but I can't see this being a big enough buff to make it viable in OU, but I've been convinced otherwise before.
+ Poison / Dark-typing and Regenerator:
Alright, since this is my submission, I will try and not show bias, except post my reasoning as to why I feel this would make Muk OU viable.
Muk is actually a pretty interesting Pokemon, at least stat wise with 105/75/100 bulk, but its typing and speed lets it down a lot. However, let's try and make this thing better with the Dark typing, letting it gain an immunity to Psychic, and resistances to Dark and Ghost, with the trade off of being neutral to Fighting and Bug, as well as Fairy, but I would say it is a fair trade. With its new typing, it now checks threats like Hoopa-U, Mega Alakazam, Mega Gardevoir, Gengar, and with its already large special bulk, you still check shit like Clefable, Raikou, Manectric, Serperior, etc. But while that is nice and all, a lack of recovery sucks, so why not give the pile of goo Regenerator, which helps it stay healthy in long battles, but lets it viably run Assault Vest, allowing it to better check special attackers. Here's the set I was doing the calcs with.
Muk @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 116 HP / 220 Atk / 172 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Brick Break
- Poison Jab
- Ice Punch / Fire Punch / Payback
EVs are a bit weird, but they allow you to always live 2 Mega Gard's Hyper Voice after rocks, while mantaining as much power as you can, plus it allows you to take on most Hoopa-U's. Gunk Shot off of 105 attack actually hits really hard, 2HKOing basically anything that doesn't resist it, and OHKOing a lot of offensive threats like Tornadus-T and Starmie. Brick Break is there to hit T-Tar, Bisharp, and Heatran, as well as other Steel types if you don't have Fire Punch. Poison Jab is there for accurate Poison STAB, so you don't have to risk misses on weakened Fairies and Grasses, which still hits decently hard. Final slot is a toss-up, Ice Punch hits Garchomp and Lando, while Fire Punch hits Scizor and Metagross, and Payback is neat for 1v1 situations against things like Gengar.
Of course Muk still has flaws, with its speed being pretty crappy, slight 4MSS, and average physical bulk, but overall, I feel this thing would be a solid addition to OU.
+ Fairy typing and Sand Stream:
Holy fuck would this be annoying. Now its insanely bulky, both physically and specially, and with its new typing it now counters Zard-X, Mega Lopunny, Mega Pinsir, Weavile, etc. It however gains a 4x weakness to Steel, and it has no Fairy STAB, having to rely on Stone Miss to attack, plus no reliable recovery makes it not too hard to wittle down. However, I can still see this thing being very difficult to take down if you lack a Bisharp or a Scizor, so this will probably get my vote since I don't want to be a dick and vote for my own thing.
+ Guts:
An interesting status-absorber. I assume this would be ran with AV to act as a Scald deterent, or as a counter to non-Fire move Clefable that punishes the use of the dreaded yellow magic, which combined in one team-slot is something I'm sure a lot of people would find really valuable. Guts boosted Megahorn I could only imagine hurt like holy hell, however a lack of recovery and super crappy speed hold it back a bit. However still pretty solid.
I'm on the fence about this. On one hand, you have a bulky Ground type with either an immunity to Grass for Mega Venu and Serperior, or Thick Fat to take on Fire and Ice types. On the other hand, Hippowdon already handles most things Miltank would be an answer to, but with better overall bulk, more attack, and Whirlwind. I guess the speed is nice, but I can't see this being a big enough buff to make it viable in OU, but I've been convinced otherwise before.
Alright, since this is my submission, I will try and not show bias, except post my reasoning as to why I feel this would make Muk OU viable.
Muk is actually a pretty interesting Pokemon, at least stat wise with 105/75/100 bulk, but its typing and speed lets it down a lot. However, let's try and make this thing better with the Dark typing, letting it gain an immunity to Psychic, and resistances to Dark and Ghost, with the trade off of being neutral to Fighting and Bug, as well as Fairy, but I would say it is a fair trade. With its new typing, it now checks threats like Hoopa-U, Mega Alakazam, Mega Gardevoir, Gengar, and with its already large special bulk, you still check shit like Clefable, Raikou, Manectric, Serperior, etc. But while that is nice and all, a lack of recovery sucks, so why not give the pile of goo Regenerator, which helps it stay healthy in long battles, but lets it viably run Assault Vest, allowing it to better check special attackers. Here's the set I was doing the calcs with.
Muk @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 116 HP / 220 Atk / 172 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Brick Break
- Poison Jab
- Ice Punch / Fire Punch / Payback
EVs are a bit weird, but they allow you to always live 2 Mega Gard's Hyper Voice after rocks, while mantaining as much power as you can, plus it allows you to take on most Hoopa-U's. Gunk Shot off of 105 attack actually hits really hard, 2HKOing basically anything that doesn't resist it, and OHKOing a lot of offensive threats like Tornadus-T and Starmie. Brick Break is there to hit T-Tar, Bisharp, and Heatran, as well as other Steel types if you don't have Fire Punch. Poison Jab is there for accurate Poison STAB, so you don't have to risk misses on weakened Fairies and Grasses, which still hits decently hard. Final slot is a toss-up, Ice Punch hits Garchomp and Lando, while Fire Punch hits Scizor and Metagross, and Payback is neat for 1v1 situations against things like Gengar.
Of course Muk still has flaws, with its speed being pretty crappy, slight 4MSS, and average physical bulk, but overall, I feel this thing would be a solid addition to OU.
Holy fuck would this be annoying. Now its insanely bulky, both physically and specially, and with its new typing it now counters Zard-X, Mega Lopunny, Mega Pinsir, Weavile, etc. It however gains a 4x weakness to Steel, and it has no Fairy STAB, having to rely on Stone Miss to attack, plus no reliable recovery makes it not too hard to wittle down. However, I can still see this thing being very difficult to take down if you lack a Bisharp or a Scizor, so this will probably get my vote since I don't want to be a dick and vote for my own thing.
An interesting status-absorber. I assume this would be ran with AV to act as a Scald deterent, or as a counter to non-Fire move Clefable that punishes the use of the dreaded yellow magic, which combined in one team-slot is something I'm sure a lot of people would find really valuable. Guts boosted Megahorn I could only imagine hurt like holy hell, however a lack of recovery and super crappy speed hold it back a bit. However still pretty solid.
I know we hate one liners, but I just wanna drop this in:
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Megahorn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 180-212 (55.7 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That's some power on a resist, and Specs Keld doesn't 2HKO the standard RU spread, which I bet could be optimised for OU (Although it does with rocks, spikes, and burn :().
Edit: Quag, PLEASE burn my Escavalier!
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 265-313 (67.2 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 399-469 (101.2 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Megahorn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 180-212 (55.7 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That's some power on a resist, and Specs Keld doesn't 2HKO the standard RU spread, which I bet could be optimised for OU (Although it does with rocks, spikes, and burn :().
Edit: Quag, PLEASE burn my Escavalier!
252+ Atk Guts Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 265-313 (67.2 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Guts Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 399-469 (101.2 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO