Anything Goes Resources

[baconbagon]

So, why isn't Double Team in any of these movesets?

Double Team, and evasion in general, isn't a good strategy to use on the AG high ladder due to its reliance on the RNG. This is especially true for Arceus, who needs all the coverage it can get on its Extreme Killer sets, and needs to pack all the support moves possible into Support sets. Why would you give up one of these slots to occasionally dodge an attack, while still getting hit by Primal Kyogre's Thunder?

Generally, evasion is kinda sad, and it really shouldn't be used unless you intend to troll someone really really hard. Would you want to be facing a Sub Double Team Darkrai that cleans up a Toxic Spikes and Lugia team? It's the same kind of hax that dictates getting critted 3 times and losing about 6 speed ties. Zangooser >:(

 

[Whis]

Ill try a shot at articuno
Lock On+Sheer Cold lol

WIP Analysis

OVERVIEW


Articuno has a very small niche in the AG metagame as it is the only pokemon to learn an OHKO move and mind reader. This means that it can usually ensure a kill no matter type effectiveness. Thanks to its overall great bulk it can perform very well doing this job as it takes hits from multiple common threats in the anything goes metagame.


SET

name: Im getting Paid for this.

Articuno @ Custap Berry

Ability: Pressure

EVs: 248 HP / 136 Def / 72 SpD / 52 Spe

Nature

- Roar/Haze

- Mind Reader

- Sheer Cold

- Endure


SET COMMENTS

Moves

========

Describe what the moves on the set do.

Mind Reader with Sheer cold can usually get a kill and is articuno’s main way of applying pressure and doing damage. Roar Helps take care of some set-up sweepers and because of articuno’s nice bulk it can phaze them out. Haze is very nice for baton pass teams as it ruins there setups. Endure helps you get into custap range which gives you priority

Set Details

========

72+ Special defense takes a max roll +2 xern moonblast which is excellent for breaking its momentum. It takes an Espeed from +2 adamant arceus. It takes an Adamant Dragon Ascent from LO mega rayquaza. 52 speed EV’s help speed creep Pdon who otherwise would pose a threat.

Usage Tips

========

Since articuno’s main way of killing is sheer cold most of the time your first move exucuted is going to be mind reader most of the time. However, If you are facing a baton pass team or a threat that is set up haze and roar are also viable ways to get rid of their stat boosts. articuno usually should come in on a threat and set up and if the threat can 2HKO


Team Options

========

Magic Bounce users like Mega Diancie,and Mega Sableye are great partners because they help clear the field for articuno as no matter how bulky it is it can’t perform well with 50% of its health. Defoggers like lugia and Defensive Yveltal are helpful if rocks are already up. Klefki helps slow down threats with Thunder wave and makes dealing with pokemon easier



STRATEGY COMMENTS

Other Options

=============

Focus sash could also work as a method of roaring out threats that woul


Checks and Counters

===================

**Mega-Ray**: After Mega-Ray has set up to plus one most hits from it will OHKO. Ontop of that articuno cannot afford to stay in on it because of the risk of megaray running V-Create


**Stealth Rock**:Having a double rock weakness means that it can no longer take hits from top tier threats that it needs to so it can function properly.


**Sleep Abusers**: Sleep abusers like darkrai and smeargle easily set up on articuno and articuno can’t do anything to stop them.


**Arceus-Rock**:Arceus-Rock OHKO’s most of the birds in the anything goes tier and articuno with a glaring 4x rock weakness is no exception.


**Zekrom**:With a very threatening stab super effective Bolt strike which forces it out effectively.

 

[AWILDBIBAREL]

Ill try a shot at articuno
Lock On+Sheer Cold lol

iirc that's it's main niche

Double Team, and evasion in general, isn't a good strategy to use on the AG high ladder due to its reliance on the RNG. This is especially true for Arceus, who needs all the coverage it can get on its Extreme Killer sets, and needs to pack all the support moves possible into Support sets. Why would you give up one of these slots to occasionally dodge an attack, while still getting hit by Primal Kyogre's Thunder?

Generally, evasion is kinda sad, and it really shouldn't be used unless you intend to troll someone really really hard. Would you want to be facing a Sub Double Team Darkrai that cleans up a Toxic Spikes and Lugia team? It's the same kind of hax that dictates getting critted 3 times and losing about 6 speed ties. Zangooser >:(

Actually losing speed ties isn't always bad...

 

[Whis]

baconbagon isnt arceus normal already done by Funbot28 ?sorry for the tags

Funbot's Analysis

double posting...

I have also decided to start making analyses for mons in the rankings sort of like Monotype and 1v1 do with there rankings. It would work with a first come first serve reservation service. If an analyses is already done or reserved, please do not create another one of the same pokemon.

Here is an analyses I created for Arceus-Normal. The Analyses should follow in this format:

Arceus-Normal for S-Rank
Overview:
Arceus-Normal is considered a top tier threat in the Anything Goes environment for many good reasons. Boosting 120 stats across the board adding up to a bst of 720, it is one of the most strongest non-mega pokemon in the entire meta. It possesses an expansive movepool, giving it the option to run a variety of sets. It is also considered one of the best, if not the best revenge killers in the entire meta, thanks to STAB priority Extreme Speed. It can effectively sweep teams when it's checks and counters are taken out or weakened, after setting up with Swords Dance. It pairs well with Primal-Groudon, as they each deal with eachothers checks quite prominently, as Primal-Groudon is able to deal with burns that Arceus really loathes. However, not everything is good for Arceus in the AG metagame. It has tight competition with Mega-Rayquaza as a setup sweeper, due to the ladder also having Swords Dance and Extreme Speed while also boasting a higher 180 Attack stat. It also has problems dealing with Klefki when it's Lum Berry has been already consumed, relying on luck to take it out.

Sets:
Arceus @ Lum Berry / Life Orb
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Claw / Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Moves:

The prime set that every AG team must prepare for in order to be effective. Swords Dance combined with Extreme Speed makes Arceus-Normal truly menacing in this metagame. After a boost, it can easily 2HKO prominent walls in Defensive Yveltal and Primal-Groudon. Extreme Speed helps it check many setup sweepers like Geomancy Xerneas and Nasty Plot Darkrai, as it will ignore the opponent's Speed. Earthquake is there to hit Steel and Rock types that may wall Arceus like Mega Diancie, Dialga and Arceus-Rock, it is also used to deal more damage to Primal-Groudon. Shadow Claw is to cope with Ghosts that tend to switch in on Arceus like Giratina-O and Arceus-Ghost, and even to deal more damage to walls like Lugia. Stone Edge can be used to hit bulky Flying types like Ho-Oh, Yveltal and Lugia.

Set Details:

The EVs are set in place to maximize it's Attack and Speed, making it deal the most damage it can, the fast as possible. Jolly nature is preferred to outpace Adamant Arceus, and other key threats like the Lati twins and Mega-Rayquaza. Lum Berry is the most used items to deal with Klefki and Darkrai more easily, or other status ailments like burns. Life Orb can be used to deal more damage, OHKOing more pokemon compared to Lum Berry.

Arceus @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Refresh
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Claw

Moves:

Refresh Arceus allows it to take status more easily, without it needing to run items like Lum Berry. Swords Dance is there to maximize Arceus's Attack, coupled with Extreme Speed to easily take out opposing mons without worry. Shadow Claw is there to deal with Ghosts like Giratina-O and Arceus-Ghost.

Set Details:

Maximize Attack and Speed with a Jolly nature, so it can Speed tie with opposing Arceus. Silk Scarf is preferred over Life Orb for longevity, boosting the power of Extreme Speed without recoil damage.

Checks and Counters:

Klefki: Without Earthquake, Klefki can easily wall Arceus. If it's Lum Berry is consumed, Klefki can hax the Arceus to death with Thunder Wave and Swagger coupled with Foul Play. Refresh variants have an easier time with it, but still have to worry about Foul Play damage.

Mega-Rayquaza: Mega-Rayquaza can take a Jolly +2 Extreme Speed, and proceed to deal heavy amounts of damage with a Dragons Ascent. It can also revenge kill it easily if the Arceus is Adamant, and the Mega-Rayquaza is Jolly.

Defensive Yveltal: Yveltal survives anything except +2 Life Orb Stone Edge, which has a small chance to OHKO from full health and is a guaranteed KO after Stealth Rock. Yveltal can OHKO +2 Arceus-Normal in return with Black Glasses-boosted Foul Play or KO with Foul Play after Stealth Rock damage, a round of Rocky Helmet recoil or a round of Life Orb recoil.

Giratina-Origin: With proper investment, Giratina-O can survive a +2 Shadow Claw after Stealth Rock and can either cripple Arceus-Normal with Will-O-Wisp or phaze it with Dragon Tail.

Lugia: Lugia is insurmountable if its Multiscale is intact, easily phazing Arceus-Normal. It can also Roost back to Multiscale even while taking +2 Shadow Claws. However, +2 Life Orb Stone Edge can OHKO after Stealth Rock.

Will-O-Wisp Arceus: Arceus formes such as Ground and Fairy can take a +2 attack and burn Arceus-Normal with Will-O-Wisp, crippling it. Arceus-Rock resists Extreme Speed but risks losing the speed tie and getting KOed by +2 Earthquake.

Sableye: Sableye can Prankster Will-O-Wisp to cripple Arceus and can deal severe damage with Foul Play, OHKOing if Arceus tries to Swords Dance again after getting burned. Mega Sableye can also take a +2 Life Orb Earthquake and retaliate with Foul Play or Will-O-Wisp.

Mega Gengar: Mega Gengar outspeeds Arceus-Normal and can either heavily damage it with Focus Blast or give its life to take Arceus-Normal down with Destiny Bond. It is outsped and KOed by Jolly variants if it has not already Mega Evolved, however.

Skarmory, Ferrothorn and Scizor: Skarmory completely walls any Arceus variant without a Fire move, phazing it while barely taking a scratch. Scizor can take a +2 Earthquake reasonably well and deal heavy damage to Arceus with Superpower. Ferrothorn can rack up residual damage on Arceus-Normal with Leech Seed, Iron Barbs, and Protect, but it does not take +2 Earthquake very well and runs the risk of letting Arceus set up Swords Dance on its Protects. All three of these Steel-types are also promptly KOed by Fire Blast or Overheat.

Feel free to right your own analyses that will be featured in the VR, once it's approved :)

 

[baconbagon]

baconbagon isnt arceus normal already done by Funbot28 ?sorry for the tags

Funbot's Analysis

double posting...

I have also decided to start making analyses for mons in the rankings sort of like Monotype and 1v1 do with there rankings. It would work with a first come first serve reservation service. If an analyses is already done or reserved, please do not create another one of the same pokemon.

Here is an analyses I created for Arceus-Normal. The Analyses should follow in this format:

Arceus-Normal for S-Rank
Overview:
Arceus-Normal is considered a top tier threat in the Anything Goes environment for many good reasons. Boosting 120 stats across the board adding up to a bst of 720, it is one of the most strongest non-mega pokemon in the entire meta. It possesses an expansive movepool, giving it the option to run a variety of sets. It is also considered one of the best, if not the best revenge killers in the entire meta, thanks to STAB priority Extreme Speed. It can effectively sweep teams when it's checks and counters are taken out or weakened, after setting up with Swords Dance. It pairs well with Primal-Groudon, as they each deal with eachothers checks quite prominently, as Primal-Groudon is able to deal with burns that Arceus really loathes. However, not everything is good for Arceus in the AG metagame. It has tight competition with Mega-Rayquaza as a setup sweeper, due to the ladder also having Swords Dance and Extreme Speed while also boasting a higher 180 Attack stat. It also has problems dealing with Klefki when it's Lum Berry has been already consumed, relying on luck to take it out.

Sets:
Arceus @ Lum Berry / Life Orb
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Claw / Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Moves:

The prime set that every AG team must prepare for in order to be effective. Swords Dance combined with Extreme Speed makes Arceus-Normal truly menacing in this metagame. After a boost, it can easily 2HKO prominent walls in Defensive Yveltal and Primal-Groudon. Extreme Speed helps it check many setup sweepers like Geomancy Xerneas and Nasty Plot Darkrai, as it will ignore the opponent's Speed. Earthquake is there to hit Steel and Rock types that may wall Arceus like Mega Diancie, Dialga and Arceus-Rock, it is also used to deal more damage to Primal-Groudon. Shadow Claw is to cope with Ghosts that tend to switch in on Arceus like Giratina-O and Arceus-Ghost, and even to deal more damage to walls like Lugia. Stone Edge can be used to hit bulky Flying types like Ho-Oh, Yveltal and Lugia.

Set Details:

The EVs are set in place to maximize it's Attack and Speed, making it deal the most damage it can, the fast as possible. Jolly nature is preferred to outpace Adamant Arceus, and other key threats like the Lati twins and Mega-Rayquaza. Lum Berry is the most used items to deal with Klefki and Darkrai more easily, or other status ailments like burns. Life Orb can be used to deal more damage, OHKOing more pokemon compared to Lum Berry.

Arceus @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Refresh
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Claw

Moves:

Refresh Arceus allows it to take status more easily, without it needing to run items like Lum Berry. Swords Dance is there to maximize Arceus's Attack, coupled with Extreme Speed to easily take out opposing mons without worry. Shadow Claw is there to deal with Ghosts like Giratina-O and Arceus-Ghost.

Set Details:

Maximize Attack and Speed with a Jolly nature, so it can Speed tie with opposing Arceus. Silk Scarf is preferred over Life Orb for longevity, boosting the power of Extreme Speed without recoil damage.

Checks and Counters:

Klefki: Without Earthquake, Klefki can easily wall Arceus. If it's Lum Berry is consumed, Klefki can hax the Arceus to death with Thunder Wave and Swagger coupled with Foul Play. Refresh variants have an easier time with it, but still have to worry about Foul Play damage.

Mega-Rayquaza: Mega-Rayquaza can take a Jolly +2 Extreme Speed, and proceed to deal heavy amounts of damage with a Dragons Ascent. It can also revenge kill it easily if the Arceus is Adamant, and the Mega-Rayquaza is Jolly.

Defensive Yveltal: Yveltal survives anything except +2 Life Orb Stone Edge, which has a small chance to OHKO from full health and is a guaranteed KO after Stealth Rock. Yveltal can OHKO +2 Arceus-Normal in return with Black Glasses-boosted Foul Play or KO with Foul Play after Stealth Rock damage, a round of Rocky Helmet recoil or a round of Life Orb recoil.

Giratina-Origin: With proper investment, Giratina-O can survive a +2 Shadow Claw after Stealth Rock and can either cripple Arceus-Normal with Will-O-Wisp or phaze it with Dragon Tail.

Lugia: Lugia is insurmountable if its Multiscale is intact, easily phazing Arceus-Normal. It can also Roost back to Multiscale even while taking +2 Shadow Claws. However, +2 Life Orb Stone Edge can OHKO after Stealth Rock.

Will-O-Wisp Arceus: Arceus formes such as Ground and Fairy can take a +2 attack and burn Arceus-Normal with Will-O-Wisp, crippling it. Arceus-Rock resists Extreme Speed but risks losing the speed tie and getting KOed by +2 Earthquake.

Sableye: Sableye can Prankster Will-O-Wisp to cripple Arceus and can deal severe damage with Foul Play, OHKOing if Arceus tries to Swords Dance again after getting burned. Mega Sableye can also take a +2 Life Orb Earthquake and retaliate with Foul Play or Will-O-Wisp.

Mega Gengar: Mega Gengar outspeeds Arceus-Normal and can either heavily damage it with Focus Blast or give its life to take Arceus-Normal down with Destiny Bond. It is outsped and KOed by Jolly variants if it has not already Mega Evolved, however.

Skarmory, Ferrothorn and Scizor: Skarmory completely walls any Arceus variant without a Fire move, phazing it while barely taking a scratch. Scizor can take a +2 Earthquake reasonably well and deal heavy damage to Arceus with Superpower. Ferrothorn can rack up residual damage on Arceus-Normal with Leech Seed, Iron Barbs, and Protect, but it does not take +2 Earthquake very well and runs the risk of letting Arceus set up Swords Dance on its Protects. All three of these Steel-types are also promptly KOed by Fire Blast or Overheat.

Feel free to right your own analyses that will be featured in the VR, once it's approved :)

Haha the tags are alright. Basically, Funbot wrote an analysis for their version of the viability rankings, which is old and closed down now. Josh and Zangooser preferred to start a new analysis system that would make the threatlist more informative. So while there is an Arceus-Normal analysis written, I still wrote a new one for this thread.

Actually losing speed ties isn't always bad...

it is when it's ekiller v ekiller

 

[Funbot28]

Oh didn't even realize there where analyses for this thread. Should have submitted my Arceus-N one..

Will come back with a reservation later

 

[Whis]

Articuno is up
feedback would be much appreaciated.
REVAMPING!

 

[gvmgvm40]

Can I nom Sylveon to C-? It has a niche as a Baton Pass receiver that has an easier time against opposing BP teams, as Hyper Voice hits through Subs.

Also a sample Smeargle BP team, I got to something like 1650-1700 with this lol

Hide

Scolipede @ Lum Berry
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Iron Defense
- Toxic Spikes
- Baton Pass

Arceus @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 68 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Perish Song
- Judgment

Smeargle @ Leftovers
Ability: Moody
EVs: 216 HP / 40 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Substitute
- Spiky Shield
- Baton Pass

Smeargle @ Leftovers
Ability: Moody
EVs: 216 HP / 40 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ingrain
- Substitute
- Spiky Shield
- Baton Pass

Smeargle @ Leftovers
Ability: Moody
EVs: 216 HP / 40 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Minimize
- Substitute
- Spiky Shield
- Baton Pass

Espeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Dazzling Gleam
- Baton Pass

 

[Whis]

Honestly there are multiple things in C that are very outclassed. I dont really see much viablity in Sylveon. It does work in baton pass teams decently but is just overall outclassed and saying its a decent baton pass receiver is sorta bad reasoning. (anything is good with enough boosts hell Mega-Camerupt could become speedy with enough boosts) Hyper Voice passes through subs which is really nice but then It would need to have enough boosts to outspeed darkrai (with base 60 speed its doable but not really recomended). When it faces so much compitition from xerneas its really tough to rank.
thats just my thoughts.
Clarifying Edit: This post was supposed to ask the question of What niche does Sylveon have over other things you might see in a baton pass team and is that niche large enough to grant itself a slot on a baton pass team that could have been given to something like a wish passer. Seeing how this only checks Darkrai and Espeon can easily handle Darkrai after one or two Calm Mind boosts having Sylveon added to a baton pass team doesn't seem to give enough to the team to be considered worth while.

 

[Chloe]

I've gone through the ranks. Here's everything I think should be moved to unranked because there's simply no scenario you'd use it no matter how niche (besides joke teams). This should help clear up the Viability rankings for new players.


Hippowdown (hello arceus ground)
Blissey (Chansey does it better, and Chansey still doesn't do it that good)
Tentacruel (Waterceus can hazard control and hazard set, and hit a whole lot harder)
Mawile-Mega (no room for this in a meta with much better priority and more powerful attackers, maybe if every other viable mega was banned we could talk xd)
Quagsire (unfortunately, loses to everything relevant despite unaware)
Metagross-Mega (what can this do Steelceus or Lucario-Mega can't do better?)
Aerodactyl-Mega (for the 3rd time, simply not good in the meta, with the extremely powerful megas floating around. plus very weak to priority)
Jirachi (lol this is b-, whos idea was that lol)
Mega Mewtwo Y (virtually outclassed, there's no reason not to drop another mega on a team and use LO Mewtwo)
Clefable (in B+... what? this thing shouldn't be ranked, it still loses to every top threat in the tier short of Dragonceus)

I'm reluctant about a few of these but I'll state the most obvious ones because I don't have much time.

Mewtwo-Mega-Y: Provides a decent Darkrai check for users who can't control it. Also I believe this is more physically frail than regular Mewtwo, which is kind of concerning, when it'll be mainly opposed by EKiller's ESpeed. It has some niche which I'm certain there are better alternatives for, especially when it uses up your mega slot. I will keep it where it is, or provide a minimal decrease in rank. Also, just because something is outclassed, it doesn't make it unviable. Half the pokemon on the list wouldn't exist if that was the case.

I'm unsure if you've seen Clefable and Quaggy in action, but they can straight up wall EKiller if they're built right. Toxic Stalling EKiller with moonlight is a nice trait to have, especially when all common movesets can't 2HKO it. I don't know much about the Unaware mons, I propose a decrease but not a removal.

I'll come back later and argue with you more.
Since apparently I need to go to school, stupid government.

 

[thesecondbest]

Yeah unaware has its niche but I agree a drop is necessary. MMY is somewhat usable. RP metagross is decent and jirachi is certainly viable, but shit like tenta aero hippo need to drop.

 

[gvmgvm40]

Honestly there are multiple things in C that are very outclassed. I dont really see much viablity in Sylveon. It does work in baton pass teams decently but is just overall outclassed and saying its a decent baton pass receiver is sorta bad reasoning. (anything is good with enough boosts hell Mega-Camerupt could become speedy with enough boosts) Hyper Voice passes through subs which is really nice but then It would need to have enough boosts to outspeed darkrai (with base 60 speed its doable but not really recomended). When it faces so much compitition from xerneas its really tough to rank.
thats just my thoughts

How is saying it's a good Baton Pass receiver bad reasoning? Espeon is a good Baton Pass receiver and it's B just because of that. Baton Pass teams are very hard to handle if you don't know what you are doing and they are a pretty legitimate threat in AG. Mega Camerupt is a pretty bad BP receiver because it contributes nothing to a BP team. It doesn't even learn Baton Pass and it can't keep the chain going. Espeon is good because it provides hazard/phazing control and Sylveon also has a niche as it fares well against opposing BP teams, it also has better bulk and typing so it can switch into attacks better, requiring less defensive boosts to start a sweep. Sylveon doesn't face competition from Xerneas, they play completely different roles, it faces competition from Espeon.

 

[Whis]

That thats not what im saying lol. Im saying that being a good baton pass reciever is terrible reasoning. The mega camerupt comment was sorta bad (sorry about that) but i was trying to emphisize anything (viable in the meta) can work with +6 speed and +4 offensive boosts. Espeon is up there because it cant get roar'd/whirlwind out which would really ruin all chance of a sweep. To put it straight why would I use Sylveon when I could use a Xerneas or an Espeon?
and to follow up: Why would I pass to Syleon when I can pass to something much more powerful and something that can abuse the boost more to sweep?
Those are the questions you need to answer to get sylveon ranked.
Not trying to sound harsh btw just trying to voice my opinion
(To avoid Double posting Ill just edit this lol)
Edit:Yeah I see that xern isnt as good with a baton pass reciever its main role is self setup sweeper regardless. GvmGvm40 still needs to answer why people would use this over an Espeon.
I did mention that espeon is viable because of its nice use in BP teams with the inability to be phaze'd by roar and whirlwind.

 

[Josh]

Anything can work with +6 Speed and +4 Offensive boosts, but they simply aren't as good as other things. Without Espeon around, Xatu would be ranked because of magic bounce. That's why Espeon is so high; it's the best as a baton pass receiver. Sylveon is Ok I suppose, although I don't really find hitting through subs worth being ranked when compared to espeon bouncing back taunt, status, phazing, etc. However I wouldn't use Xerneas at all because it has no notable niche above Espeon, whereas at least Sylveon does have something.

Edit; and yes, as much as we all hate it baton pass is a very viable strat in AG. It's why I run Perish Song on my ekiller over Stone Edge, and I know baton pass can dismantle a lot of major teams.

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

The main niche of Sylveon on a Baton Pass team is not to replace Espeon, it's usually to work alongisde it. Espeon is excellent and I think it is very hard to make a good BP team without it. However, it generally spams Stored Power. Guess what's immune to Stored Power? Dark. Guess what's Super Effective on Dark AND has BP AND has a way to boost further? Sylveon! My BP team consisted of Sylveon/Espeon/Smeargle/Vaporeon/Scolipede/Drifblim iirc but the point of Sylveon is to be able to easily defeat Dark-types (such as Yveltal and Mega Sableye), while still keeping the momentum with Baton Pass, and having boosting moves such as Calm Mind, as well as Wish (which is helpful for healing up Scolipede and is recovery lol). It also has a nice immunity to Dragon Tail, which is occasionally seen on PDon, so that's nice as well. Overall, Sylveon is a pretty good mon on BP teams and deserves at least C- Rank imo

 

[The Gunner]

Clefable (in B+... what? this thing shouldn't be ranked, it still loses to every top threat in the tier short of Dragonceus)

Blissey can run Shed Shell to avoid being trapped. So Blissey > Chansey imo.
Clefable can potentially check Xerneas & at least one E killer. It can out stall Extreme Speed & just 3hko Xerneas (not counting drops.) It's also arguably the best cleric. Besides that, I agree with almost everything on your list.

Moving on to the recent Sylveon discussion, I feel that if we're really giving Sylveon a rate because of it's niche as a BP user & because it complements Espeon, then I feel that we should rate every other BP user too.
Mr. Mime should be rated for using Encore & for absorbing Roar/Perish Song
Vaporeon should be rated for being a wall that can use acid armour.
Gliscor should be rated for using Double Team. (why the fuck is it rated Gooser, now I have ambivalent feelings)
Zapdos should be rated for using Whirlwind.

Now the difference between all of these mons & Smearlge, is that Smeargle can single-handedly use Baton Pass without having to rely on other team members.
All Sylveon can do is potentially check Yveltal & Darkrai, but apart from that, it just lures Kyogre, Groudon, Ho-oh, Klefki etc into the battlefield & allows them to set up. Also, if your argument about Sylveon's viability is that it can absorb Dragon Tail, PLEASE BRING YOUR SYLVEON IN ON MY DRAGON TAIL SO THAT I CAN OBLITERATE IT THE NEXT TURN WITH DRAGON ASCENT/PRECIPICE BLADES.
If I'm going to give Sylveon a rate for being a soft check to Darkrai & Yveltal, then I think we should give a rate to Slowbro for having a niche as an E killer check.
(trick flame orb iron defense) (dank)

In my opinion, I personally don't think that any mon should be rated for having a niche as a BP user. First of all, I don't even think BP should be considered as a legitimate strategy, just because of how retarded it is. If any mon is rated for using BP, it's because of something that it abuses that it can't abuse anywhere else (Drifblim minimize.) In conclusion, I think Sylveon should stay unranked. (dank mon)


Now, I would like to nominate Bronzong from Unranked -----> C+
Bronzong can check Xerneas, set up rocks, use toxic protect & use Skill Swap. It's also very easy to wish to just because it takes min damage from a lot of things like Groundceus, Kangaskhan, Lugia, Diancie, P don without a fire move & so on. I believe that it outclasses every mon in the C+ division, but it's not good enough to be in B. Discussion plis.

Edit: Joshz, if you're using a really average strategy which relies on your opponent being terrible, I don't think it should be given C rank. If we are ranking Aron, it should be given the lowest rank, D. [dank]

 

[AWILDBIBAREL]

I've gone through the ranks. Here's everything I think should be moved to unranked because there's simply no scenario you'd use it no matter how niche (besides joke teams). This should help clear up the Viability rankings for new players.


Hippowdown (hello arceus ground)
Blissey (Chansey does it better, and Chansey still doesn't do it that good)
Tentacruel (Waterceus can hazard control and hazard set, and hit a whole lot harder)
Mawile-Mega (no room for this in a meta with much better priority and more powerful attackers, maybe if every other viable mega was banned we could talk xd)
Quagsire (unfortunately, loses to everything relevant despite unaware)
Metagross-Mega (what can this do Steelceus or Lucario-Mega can't do better?)
Aerodactyl-Mega (for the 3rd time, simply not good in the meta, with the extremely powerful megas floating around. plus very weak to priority)
Jirachi (lol this is b-, whos idea was that lol)
Mega Mewtwo Y (virtually outclassed, there's no reason not to drop another mega on a team and use LO Mewtwo)
Clefable (in B+... what? this thing shouldn't be ranked, it still loses to every top threat in the tier short of Dragonceus)




EDIT: Also nominating Aron from unranked to C. FEAR is a very usable strat, and surprisingly a lot of teams are unprepared for Aron. It can usually put in a lot of work. I'll write more on this when I have time maybe.

I kinda feel like some of these are inaccurate comparisons so:
Hippo is a defensive 'mon, as such, wouldn't it make more sense to compare it with defensive Grounds? Arceus-Ground commonly fulfills a offensive role, not a defensive one. It is however, outclassed, and shouldn't be ranked.
Blissey: I'M NOT GOING TO GO INTO THIS (see: old thread)
Tentacruel: sounds like you haven't used it before. Arceus-Water MAY have quite a bit more offensive presence, but Water and Poison are both kind of ineffective in AG thanks to many Water resists (Arceus-Water is sometimes forced to run Ice Beam as its attacking move!). Arceus-Water also doesn't really have space for both SR and other stuff as it requires Recover and Toxic to sort of hurt P-don, an attack, and Defog. Uhh, also, Tentacruel does get Toxic Spikes and has slightly different utility with Rapid Spin and an added Poison typing.
Mawile: A little uncertain on this. Mawile is a shit mon, sure, (also you got its niche wrong Mawile usually runs an offensive Special Tank set for Xern), but it is ranked here presumably because it's an Uber mon.
Quagsire: a frail defensive mon that should have been removed long ago lel
Metagross-Mega: For starters, hits harder than physical Steelceus and has better bulk (maybe better coverage? probably not tho) than Mega Luke. IDK what's the current rank, but same rank as Mega Luke would be OK because neither is really better than each other.
Mega Aerodactyl: I think this thing's main niche was as a lead that beats Ho-oh or something. idk if it should drop
Jirachi: Actually ranked in C+ in Ubers Viability, js.
MMY: Goose is sort of right, but i think that the decreased phys bulk doesn't really matter a lot since most relevant attackers 2HKO anyway.
Clefable: *mind-blown* Can you please stop acting so indignant that certain mons are "too high"? This was c/p from the original Ubers Viability (with extreme mods of course), so there should be some kind of reasoning behind it. Also you said Dragonceus is a top threat?? For the record, specially defensive and physically defensive respectively beat some CM arceus and E-KIller.

p.s. GUNNER ROHAN DO NOT GO INTO THE BLISSEY>CHANSEY THING THAT'S DANGEROUS TERRITORY

edit: on bronzong, it should be b- because jirachi is at c+, and i think bronzong is better at the spdef role
edit 2: ummm, yes, bp is a legit strategy, it just makes battles un-fun (see: policy review forum)

 

[The Gunner]

p.s. GUNNER ROHAN DO NOT GO INTO THE BLISSEY>CHANSEY THING THAT'S DANGEROUS TERRITORY

edit: on bronzong, it should be b- because jirachi is at c+, and i think bronzong is better at the spdef role
edit 2: ummm, yes, bp is a legit strategy, it just makes battles un-fun (see: policy review forum)

Hi, please put a little effort while replying because I spent some time typing that, thanks.

1) please tell me why Blissey > Chansey is dangerous terriority?
2) Jirachi & Bronzong do the same thing (check Xerneas), Jirachi gets wish. Bronzong has no recovery.
3) I don't care about the policy, the fact is, a Pokemon shouldn't be rated just on its compatibility with other Baton Pass users. Maybe you should have a look at the Ubers viability rankings. Baton Pass exists in Ubers too, but they're not giving it a rate because it's retarded not rate worthy.

 

[AWILDBIBAREL]

Hi, 1) please tell me why Blissey > Chansey is dangerous terriority?
2) Jirachi & Bronzong do the same thing (check Xerneas), Jirachi gets wish. Bronzong has no recovery.
3) I don't care about the policy, the fact is, a Pokemon shouldn't be rated just on its compatibility with other Baton Pass users. Maybe you should have a look at the Ubers viability rankings. Baton Pass exists in Ubers too, but they're not giving it a rate because it's retarded not rate worthy.

Look at the previous thread, Joshz and some other Chansey supporters argued me to death about that, and they won. (which is why it's pointless to start it again, just like Latios-Mega in the OU VR)
2)Bronzong is higher in the ubers vr tho.
3) okay

 

[The Gunner]

Look at the previous thread, Joshz and some other Chansey supporters argued me to death about that, and they won. (which is why it's pointless to start it again, just like Latios-Mega in the OU VR)
2)Bronzong is higher in the ubers vr tho.
3) okay

Joshz plis sum up how Chansey > Blissey.

2) Are you kidding? Why are you comparing AG to Ubers? They are both in no way analogous. Klefki is S in AG, whereas it's A in Ubers. Also, Bronzong has a better niche in Ubers because it doesn't have to worry about 6 ARCEUS'

 

[AWILDBIBAREL]

Joshz plis sum up how Chansey > Blissey.

2) Are you kidding? Why are you comparing AG to Ubers? They are both in no way analogous. Klefki is S in AG, whereas it's A in Ubers. Also has a better nick in Ubers because it doesn't have to worry about 6 ARCEUS'

2) ok
srsly lets stahp this argument someone unclutter the thread pls

 

[TheHungrySage]

2) ok
srsly lets stahp this argument someone unclutter the thread pls

I apologize if I come off seeming overly harsh, but it's about time someone said this.
The reason why this argument is occuring is because you, Spin Da (Pig), have argued with a respected member of the ag community on the basis of disagreeing with a statement, which is perfectly alright. However, you have failed to provide one instance in which your claims would be correct. After this, you have blindly proceeded with your argument, making still more unsupported claims before comparing AG to Ubers. Surely you can see how people will get annoyed at this, and how it is not desired behaviour?
This is not a one-off instance, either. You have repeatedly gone through the above process and it has come to a point where you are annoying a lot of people on a regular basis.
Please, seriously think about what you write so as you a) can make logical claims, and b) not annoy other users.
Thanks.

 

[AWILDBIBAREL]

I apologize if I come off seeming overly harsh, but it's about time someone said this.
The reason why this argument is occuring is because you, Spin Da (Pig), have argued with a respected member of the ag community on the basis of disagreeing with a statement, which is perfectly alright. However, you have failed to provide one instance in which your claims would be correct. After this, you have blindly proceeded with your argument, making still more unsupported claims before comparing AG to Ubers. Surely you can see how people will get annoyed at this, and how it is not desired behaviour?
This is not a one-off instance, either. You have repeatedly gone through the above process and it has come to a point where you are annoying a lot of people on a regular basis.
Please, seriously think about what you write so as you a) can make logical claims, and b) not annoy other users.
Thanks.

Oh.
I'm really sorry about this, won't happen again. p.s. i won't try to compare anymore besides mons that aren't really changed in the transition. If I think I'm not wrong though, I'll post it, but I won't persist anymore.
Thanks.
(p.s. please don't like post on users admitting to wrongs etc., I feel it's kind of rude? no offense guys)
p.p.s Gunner Rohan, if you read my entire post I did mention why Blissey>Chansey is something that should not be discussed. Like the Ubers VR, I think that topic should be blacklisted.

 

[Chloe]

A few things to bring up. Feel free to discuss whether you agree or not. These will be updated depending on general feedback.

B to B+/A- MMX is an excellent physical attacker with a variety of coverage options. It has a skyrocketing Attack stat which exceeds Rayquaza-Mega. This pokemon can OHKO EKiller Arceus variants with Low Kick or with a +1 Drain Punch. It can easily sweep unprepared teams.

B to B+ With pokemon such as Rayquaza-Mega suffering from an absence of reliable recovery. Salamega can be a delight to teams requiring set up sweepers that prow on the ability to gain their HP back. This pokemon is highly regarded in the Ubers metagame, but does take up a mega slot which could be used on Mega Rayquaza. When considering usage for this pokemon it would heavily depend on the need for recovery or not. Although it is outclassed by Rayquaza-Mega, it still performs a decent job.

C+ to C- This pokemon seems to have nearly no room within the AG metagame, especially with pokemon such as Rayquaza-Mega and the previous two on the page performing a lot better than Aerodactyl. Its typing can be useful against Arceus and Primal-Groudon, but it's so frail it dies to these pokemon anyway.

Unranked to C- This pokemon has no niche over Espeon in terms of Baton Pass teams. "Pixilate Hyper Voice", I'm sorry but in what universe does an evasion boosted Espeon struggle with substitute mons? I really do NOT think we should rank this pokemon. Pairing it alongside is not a great idea either as other mons can do the job which also have a use (see Mr. Mime if you require a fairy).

Unranked to C- I can agree with this, but my judgment may be a little biased. I used this pokemon when I started the AG metagame and used it alongside my team to get to high ladder. I got to the top 5 with it, and beat Semen, Gunner and Curve. Due to my lack of knowledge for the metagame, Aron posed a safety net in case there was something I couldn't stop. When paired with a berry juice it could come in on anything and Endeavor it the following turn. I think this pokemon does have certain viability within the metagame; not sure if C is too high or not though, so I'll pose a C-.

Unranked to C+ "Bronzong can check Xerneas, set up rocks, use toxic protect & use Skill Swap. It's also very easy to wish to just because it takes min damage from a lot of things like Groundceus, Kangaskhan, Lugia, Diancie, P don without a fire move & so on. I believe that it outclasses every mon in the C+ division, but it's not good enough to be in B." - GunnerRohan. Essentially it.

I would like to hear viewpoints on these. But as always feel free to discuss other pokemon as you wish.

 

[AWILDBIBAREL]

A few things to bring up. Feel free to discuss whether you agree or not. These will be updated depending on general feedback.

B to B+/A- MMX is an excellent physical attacker with a variety of coverage options. It has a skyrocketing Attack stat which exceeds Rayquaza-Mega. This pokemon can OHKO EKiller Arceus variants with Low Kick or with a +1 Drain Punch. It can easily sweep unprepared teams.

B to B+ With pokemon such as Rayquaza-Mega suffering from an absence of reliable recovery. Salamega can be a delight to teams requiring set up sweepers that prow on the ability to gain their HP back. This pokemon is highly regarded in the Ubers metagame, but does take up a mega slot which could be used on Mega Rayquaza. When considering usage for this pokemon it would heavily depend on the need for recovery or not. Although it is outclassed by Rayquaza-Mega, it still performs a decent job.

C+ to C- This pokemon seems to have no room within the AG metagame, especially with pokemon such as Rayquaza-Mega and the previous two on the page performing a lot better than Aerodactyl. Its typing can be useful against Arceus and Primal-Groudon, but it's so frail it dies to these pokemon anyway.

Unranked to C- This pokemon has no niche over Espeon in terms of Baton Pass teams. "Pixilate Hyper Voice", I'm sorry but in what universe does an evasion boosted Espeon struggle with substitute mons? I really do NOT think we should rank this pokemon. Pairing it alongside is not a great idea either as other mons can do the job which also have a use (see Mr. Mime if you require a fairy).

Unranked to C- I can agree with this, but my judgment may be a little biased. I used this pokemon when I started the AG metagame and used it alongside my team to get to high ladder. I got to the top 5 with it, and beat Semen, Gunner and Curve. Due to my lack of knowledge for the metagame, Aron posed a safety net in case there was something I couldn't stop. When paired with a berry juice it could come in on anything and Endeavor it the following turn. I think this pokemon does have certain viability within the metagame; not sure if C is too high or not though, so I'll pose a C-.

Unranked to C+ "Bronzong can check Xerneas, set up rocks, use toxic protect & use Skill Swap. It's also very easy to wish to just because it takes min damage from a lot of things like Groundceus, Kangaskhan, Lugia, Diancie, P don without a fire move & so on. I believe that it outclasses every mon in the C+ division, but it's not good enough to be in B." - GunnerRohan. Essentially it.

I would like to hear viewpoints on these. But as always feel free to discuss other pokemon as you wish.

Aerodactyl-Mega is more of a utility mon though (speed, rocks, taunt) with the ability to check ho-oh over deoxys-s and a.