Resource ORAS NU Viability Rankings (Under Construction)

[Kiyo]

As a reminder to posters, please make sure the content of your posts is relevant to a competitive player and relevant to the current metagame. If the majority of your post is simply listing information you can find on the dex (i.e. Base Stats, Typing, Movepool, Ability, etc.) odds are its not a good post.

To reitirate a couple of good points from the Beginner's Guide to NU Thread:

• When posting, it's good to take a second readthrough and think, "does this make sense", "what am I trying to accomplish with this post", "am I contradicting myself". The other posters in the thread will appreciate you for it.
• Damage Calculations can be an effective way of proving the effectiveness of a certain set or mon, but people often don't use them correctly. Make sure that when you're using damage calcs, that they're relevant to what the specific set/mon's purpose is. For example, if i'm trying to show that SpDef Malamar is the best set because it uses it's special bulk to set up, i won't put a calc showing that Signal Beam Musharna does 60% or that Scyther revenges it. I'll show calcs with the relevant defensive pokemon like Vileplume and Weezing and how they don't 3HKO it which allows you to set up on them.

 

[Disjunction]

Rhydon for S +? rank or any higher rank S Why? Simple this pokemon has a very good amount of attack and defense and with Eviolite receive a very good increase in defense statistics and to top it accesses booster movements with which can destroy entire teams with their set of double dance, this pokemon is a good check of xatu, scyter, among many others pokemon jynx this tier is also a decent rock stealth setter despite having a very useless abilitys if the pokemon has access to the types megahorn grass and other psychic with whom you can destroy them easily despite not having stab this pokemon I see very broken for the tier that is why I think it would be better to place it in a more than S rank also to supplement this information this pokemon can check other pokemon as Mawile, Skuntank , Malamar , Musharna, garbodor, Pinsir and pyroar .also you have access to blast rock to break substitutes and focus sash . Rhydon is broken .....

I'm going to disagree with this nomination for now. Any Pokemon that transcends our traditional S Rank would have to be so amazing and splashable that you're losing opportunity cost by not running it on most of your teams. Rhydon, unfortunately, does not fit that bill. Rhydon has subpar speed, lack of recovery, and a weakness to common types. Obviously, it still performs amazingly in the meta, but my point is that it has flaws and it shouldn't be thrown onto every team like an S+ Rank mon should be.

 

[XenoTech N]

Rhydon for S +? rank or any higher rank S Why? Simple this pokemon has a very good amount of attack and defense and with Eviolite receive a very good increase in defense statistics and to top it accesses booster movements with which can destroy entire teams with their set of double dance, this pokemon is a good check of xatu, scyter, among many others pokemon jynx this tier is also a decent rock stealth setter despite having a very useless abilitys if the pokemon has access to the types megahorn grass and other psychic with whom you can destroy them easily despite not having stab this pokemon I see very broken for the tier that is why I think it would be better to place it in a more than S rank also to supplement this information this pokemon can check other pokemon as Mawile, Skuntank , Malamar , Musharna, garbodor, Pinsir and pyroar .also you have access to blast rock to break substitutes and focus sash . Rhydon is broken .....

Rhydon is by no means deserving of S+ (would Montsegur and co. even be willing to create an S+? Probably not). Don't get me wrong Rhydon is great. Rhydon has Stealth rocks and ridiculous bulk. I like Rhydon. Two problems: its speed and typing. I'm not kidding when I say every grass and water type in the tier smash this thing. It also doesn't have that great a Special Defense stat, making Rhydon fodder for stuff like AoA Samurott, not to mention the mere presence of all of NU's fighting types really hurts it. Base 40 Speed dosen't even beat out some defensive walls in NU let alone a lot of offensive mons, so Rhydon is almost always taking damage before an attack, unless it's a Rock polish variant, and even that isn't that fast, bringing me to my next point of Rhydon has no recovery, not even Leftovers because it's running eviolite to achieve its ridiculous bulk. There are a couple more reasons I could list, but I would be rambling by then. Rhydon is really good, and deserving of S Rank, but by no means should it be moved up to something ridiculous such as S+.

 

[SaberSeven]

Rhydon for S +? rank or any higher rank S Why? Simple this pokemon has a very good amount of attack and defense and with Eviolite receive a very good increase in defense statistics and to top it accesses booster movements with which can destroy entire teams with their set of double dance, this pokemon is a good check of xatu, scyter, among many others pokemon jynx this tier is also a decent rock stealth setter despite having a very useless abilitys if the pokemon has access to the types megahorn grass and other psychic with whom you can destroy them easily despite not having stab this pokemon I see very broken for the tier that is why I think it would be better to place it in a more than S rank also to supplement this information this pokemon can check other pokemon as Mawile, Skuntank , Malamar , Musharna, garbodor, Pinsir and pyroar .also you have access to blast rock to break substitutes and focus sash . Rhydon is broken .....

Rhydon is definitely a premier mon in NU, but with the poor typing it has defensively, its low speed, and how common Water, Grass, and Fighting types moves are pretty much keeps Rhydon in check for this tier.

 

[QueenOfLuvdiscs]

Why is Rhydon S rank again? Is the dual dance really why it's there? What can the defensive set do over Spdef Regirock? I know I joke around about Rhydon being ass but I do honestly see it as a good pokemon just not S rank material and as disjunction so nicely put:

Rhydon has subpar speed, lack of recovery, and a weakness to common types.

And why is Mega Audino still not S rank yet? Crodino, WishPass and 'super-dino' are all really good sets right now and checks a lot of Pokemon right now like Magmortar (if spdef) and Shiftry as well as Tauros and Archeops.

I just think if you're gonna have Rhydon, who has a lot more flaws than Mega Audino, they should be in the same rank.

 

[Teddeh]

I'm gonna agree with the rise of mega-audino. It's extremely splashable on teams and hard to kill. With added support from skunk and shiftry and less uxie in the tier, it just makes its life a lot easier since it can pair up with these pokemon and easily remove checks to calm mind audino such as a calm minding psychic. Also, it checks a huge proportion of the tier since life orb rock climb from sheer force tauros struggles to 3 hit ko, let alone other pokemon in the tier such as kanga, gurdurr, sawk, rhydon (if running grass knot / surf) and this completely disregards a genuine offensive cm 3 attacks set which can easily take apart bulky cores right now. I feel it fully deserves S right now.
also, make lapras rise already please

 

[Ares]

Archeops A+ --> S 
Hitmonchan B --> B+
Ferroseed B --> B+
Hariyama A- --> A
Articuno B- --> B
Arbok C+ --> B-
Fraxure C+ --> C-
Golem C+ --> C-
Jumpluff C+ --> B-
Mantine C+ --> C
Probopass C+ --> D
Chatot C+ --> B-
Servine C+ --> C
Sawsbuck C+ --> C
Shedinja C+ --> C-
Simipour C+ --> C
Carbink C+ --> D
Dusknoir C --> C-
Kingler C- --> Unranked
Monferno C- --> Unranked
Ariados D --> Unranked
Duosion D --> Unranked
Lapras D --> C-

Sorry for taking a while to get this update out, irl caught up with me.

Anyways, wanna address a couple of things. First off I love kiyo, he said he would defend Archeops dropping but then realized it would be more civil to make a post suggesting its drop to A+. Secondly I wouldn't be opposed to adding in an S+ and an S- rank as there are a couple of A+ Pokemon I am on the fence about being S and could see fitting into an S- rank, however my concerns are that there aren't enough Pokemon to fill out both S+ and S- and we would end up having like 3 S- and 1 S+. Third remember to give actual reasoning for moving stuff up and not just random facts that everyone knows, if you're suggesting something that is a really big change you better have a good reason for pointing out why its not that rank.

----

As far as Mega Audino to S goes I want to wait a bit, I haven't had a chance to state the reasons why I don't think it should move up. Disjunction said he was on the fence so he should make a post for it staying in A+, I'll dictate and he can turn my 2 lines into an essay and rake in the likes.

 

[Aasgier]

Mega Audino is stupidly annoying imho. Basically only a few STAB Gunk Shots stand a chance of 2HKO'ing it... and we really have a lot of these in the tier, don't we? Arbok. Garbodor assume max attack. Metang 2HKO's all variants that don't run max Def and sets up all over the others.
Edit: Klingklang also deals with it for obvious reasons.

On the special side, we don't have many Steel-attackers, whereas most Poison-types that attack on the special side don't invest in their SpA, except for Haunter, offensive Vileplume and the irrelevant Seviper.

I agree with it going to S-Rank.

 

[Ren-chon]

Secondly I wouldn't be opposed to adding in an S+ and an S- rank as there are a couple of A+ Pokemon I am on the fence about being S and could see fitting into an S- rank, however my concerns are that there aren't enough Pokemon to fill out both S+ and S- and we would end up having like 3 S- and 1 S+.

I don't really think that would be a problem, as there's always one or two mons that stand up in comparison to the rest of the tier (Tauros and Sawk in our case). That would be even better actually, as in the S Rank we see mons that aren't in the same level as the others (like Rhydon, for example) but still maybe a bit better than most of the A+ Rank. Meanwhile, some mons in A+ Rank are better than most of the rank they're in, but maybe not as much as some in S (Garbodor, Klinklang, Pyroar, and maybe Samurott, Gurdurr and Lanturn. Audino is already gonna be bumped anyway I guess), so they could be bumped to a S- Rank. And btw, S+ would without a doubt have Sawk and at least one (or both) of Tauros and Magmortar.

As for the Megadino nomination, yeah, S Rank please. There's not really much to say that already wasn't, but just wanna enforce some things:
1) Audino has 3 viable sets: Crodino, Wish, and CM Offensive. The first two are a pain in the ass to kill, while the later is a pain in the ass to switch in against. And the problem starts here: even though they have quite the same checks (steels, cm psychics and poison-types), they are dealt with in different ways, specially Crodino and CM Offensive: the first one you deal by switching your check before or in the turn he starts set upping, while the later you have to be careful when switching because of the coverage he runs. In short: if you send your check against CM Offensive thinking it's Crodino, you're fucked; if you play with your check too carefully thinking he's offensive and then he starts CMing and Resting, you're fucked. Not gonna talk about WishTect because if you use it you deserve to be scalped by a ceiling fan. There's also the CM Wish set but I don't really like it as it's both weak and prone to being burnt or poisoned.

2) His checks are usually easy to wear down: From the ORAS NU Role Compendium, you can see that the checks to Audino includes:
Offensive: Garbodor, Haunter, Arbok, Mesprit, Mawile, Skuntank and let me be nice and add Klinklang too. Defensive: Garbodor, Xatu, Skuntank, Musharna, Ferroseed, Quagsire and Weezing. Out of all of them, only 3 can reliable recover HP, and 5 don't even usually carry Leftovers or Black Sludge (not including Seed because he at least has Leech Seed). This just shows how most of them can't be switching in and out w/o losing quite some health while Audino can just recover himself by either Resting or Wishing. Yeah, a lot of them punish Audino staying in by set upping or using hazards, but usually you'll have options to deal with them while your opp is losing his (supposedly only) way of stopping the pinky fairy.

3) Audino can easily compensate his low base SAtk: The main selling point for those who don't like him is that Audino is rather weak. That's true, but he can get over it quite easily: the Crodino set can setup almost anytime he wants due to the ENORMOUS defensive stats, while the CM Offensive set takes advantage of the good coverage he has, with things like Fire Blast, Grass Knot, Surf, and even Psychic. It's weak, but does that matter when you're hitting almost everything for Super Effective damage? I won't talk about the Wish set because it's only meant to support and tank things anyway.

4) It would be the ideal pet: Let's be honest: everyone wants Audino as a pet. It's cute, you can put it in any family and make it 10x better, it'll support you through hard times, it almost doesn't need anything other than keeping poisonous things and sharp metals away, it can be strong if you give him some time, and it won't die.

I SWEAR GOD ONE DAY I'LL POST HERE AND IT'LL BE A SHORT POST

 

[XenoTech N]

Secondly I wouldn't be opposed to adding in an S+ and an S- rank as there are a couple of A+ Pokemon I am on the fence about being S and could see fitting into an S- rank, however my concerns are that there aren't enough Pokemon to fill out both S+ and S- and we would end up having like 3 S- and 1 S+.

These are what my predictions on what they would be, Montsegur.

S+: Magmortar, Sawk, Tauros
S-: Archeops, Rhydon, Garbodor, Klinklang, Mega Audino
Maybe S-:Pyroar, Samurott, Lanturn

Sawk immediately jumps out as S+ material seeing as how it's the premiere wallbreaker
Magmortar would probably make it in because of sheer power and bulk
Tauros would squeeze in because of its great speed tier and attack
Edit: Mega Audino Forgot about the dino, but yea walls a lot of the tier
Archeops is deadly, but is useless against mons with priority
Rhydon has amazing bulk, SR, and Dual dance, but gets crapped on because of bad typing and no recovery
Klinklang because it's the premiere sweeper, but is easily walled and has a bad movepool
Garbodor is the most reliable hazard setter, but it also has a lack of recovery and weakness to common attacking types

Pyroar because it is a good special wallbreaker and revenge killer, but is slightly outclassed and pretty frail
Samurott due to its dual attacking sets and support movepool, but maybe not because it's low speed and only ok defenses
Lanturn has good sp.atk and decent hp, but has weakness to common attack types and not great physical defense.

Just food for thought, but I hope this would encourage a dual s rank system, which I believe would be better

 

[Funbot28]

Secondly I wouldn't be opposed to adding in an S+ and an S- rank as there are a couple of A+ Pokemon I am on the fence about being S and could see fitting into an S- rank, however my concerns are that there aren't enough Pokemon to fill out both S+ and S- and we would end up having like 3 S- and 1 S+. Third remember to give actual reasoning for moving stuff up and not just random facts that everyone knows, if you're suggesting something that is a really big change you better have a good reason for pointing out why its not that rank.

Here are my thoughts:

S+ Rank:

Sawk (Best wallbreaker in the meta. Heavily restricts teambuilding thanks to it's amazing Attack and coverage)

Tauros (Similiar reasons to Sawk, trading Attack for better Speed and coverage)

Magmortar (Best special wallbreaker. Coverage + Power makes it truly incredible. Weak to hazards and has avergae speed, but still defines the meta heavily)

S Rank:

Archeops (Great utility + Power it brings. Hits hard, while also providing support with SR, fast Taunt and crippling mons with Endeavor. Weak to priority and has Defitist, but still amazing)
http://data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACAAAAAgCAMAAABEpIrGAAAAKlBMVEX///8xMTHu5qxSUlLFvbTNvWr/3ubNrHODi5ysezm9alr/xc3eYoOclIt9pw/LAAAA10lEQVQ4jb2TWQ6DMAxE4zUbvf91O4YiVSSQn6oRQSjzPNiWk9L/FtFCN34miJeA+oJQfyTwC02FzlSJrklT6IcU243tSmg5v8hdeUia+ANoCj3nq57F9dCxJ/FZeDNL+TAZDMiqIIot9RuDCgfD+eZJJ3oQleAbJth10jGUjzp2oNZrC06mpIIsJPOc2M/QC9ktxvEgQQc0XmImZ8A34KIKIZ6p3puJcAvZssyBqBAEENXXmEMjEAbAvcuohycR7Fvz3u9GnJBmKa3dj95evi6Gd3WDfr/eYSsECWjN1LQAAAAASUVORK5CYII=

Mega Audino (CM Crodino is godly. Also provides great support with Wish passing, and with Darks arriving, it helps deal with checks like CM Musharna and Mesprit.

Rhydon (Dual Dance and Bulky SR setter are really good. Crap typing and bad speed don't push it pass S imo)

S-Rank:

Klingklang (Best setup sweeper in NU. Vey limited thanks to poor coverage, although Uxie leaving makes one less check. I think Klang is just above all A+ mons, and would fit in S-)

Garbordor (Best spiker in the meta. Uxie's absence really helps it, and really helps make HO teams become dominant)

Lanturn (Very good pivot mon, with access to Heal Bell and decent coverage. Deals woth top meta threats in Klingklang, Rhydon and Magmortar without HP Grass)

Samurott (Very good mixed attacker, with moves like Hydro Pump, Superpower, Knock Off and Ice Beam. It has a move for each mon lol. SD is also very underrated and deserves a mention for it to raise to S-)

Don't beleive Pyroar should raise to the S Rankings, due to Magmortar's opportunity cost imo

 

[Aladyyn]

I strongly disagree with Magmortar in S+ and Lanturn anywhere in S ranks. Magmortar simply isn't on the level of Sawk and Tauros and honestly isn't even the closest out of the other potential S ranks (Mega Audino is imo). Klinklang and Lanturn have no business being in S since they're way too easy to take advantage of and just don't bring enough to the table compared to other pokemon mentioned. I'd rather put Jynx in S- than either of those but I'm not sure about that either. My vision of this separated S-rank would look like this:

S+
Sawk
Tauros

2 most important pokemon in the current metagame, very reliable and easy to use on offense

S
Archeops
Magmortar
Mega Audino
Rhydon

Basically the rest of the current S ranks, self explanatory

S-
Garbodor
(Jynx)
(Samurott)
(Scyther)

Garbodor is easily above the competition here, not sold on any of the others honestly. Kind of surprised there hasn't been any mention of Scyther, it's really godly in the current meta. I'd be fine with just having Garbodor in S-, adding too many pokemon to S is not necessary even if we're expanding the rank somewhat.

 

[QueenOfLuvdiscs]

We really don't need an S+ or S- rank. It makes the suggested Pokemon for S+, Sawk and Tauros, seem like they have absolutely no flaws whatsoever and that every team in NU should always use them as you honestly have no reason not to do so. But this isn't the case though is it? They do have flaws; Sawk is required to not have hazards up, so a deal of support is needed to make this not happen as well usually having to run Choice Band in order to break things and Tauros whilst does have an amazing speed tier all of its viable moves that get sheer force boosted can and will miss (iron head is not viable, stop using this ass move). being able to not touch the rock types in the tier at all and with it being a Normal type, it provides no defensive synergy at all.

Also this:

S+
Sawk
Tauros

2 most important pokemon in the current metagame, very reliable and easy to use on offense

S+ Rank:

Sawk (Best wallbreaker in the meta. Heavily restricts teambuilding thanks to it's amazing Attack and coverage)

Tauros (Similiar reasons to Sawk, trading Attack for better Speed and coverage)

S+: Magmortar, Sawk, Tauros

Sawk immediately jumps out as S+ material seeing as how it's the premiere wallbreaker
Tauros would squeeze in because of its great speed tier and attack

Going back to my first point, if you are gonna nominate we impose an S+ rank, these pokemon must work on all playstyles because they fit so well (look at primal groudon in ubers) and again, have absolutely zero opportunity cost. Sawk has an ass defensive typing and no bulk with that and even more so for Tauros. We're not gonna see these 2 on stall because they do nothing for it, but again if S+, they have to the most perfect Pokemon in NU.

They're good on one playstyle, that is not enough.
Also, it would mean that these would clearly be top priority for suspect testing.
Are they? No, because they aren't godlike; just very good.

 

[Ren-chon]

Also, it would mean that these would clearly be top priority for suspect testing.
Are they? No, because they aren't godlike; just very good.

Not really gonna comment about the rest of your post, as tbh it changed my mind a little bit about having S+ or S- ranks (even though I still think it could be implemented, but now I can see the flaws of it), but I can't agree about your statement here. As you said, they are very good and that's why people are agreeing on both for S+ but that doesn't mean they should be top priority for suspect test, if even suspect tested at all. It just means that they are really good for the meta, not necessarily broken like things like mega camel, typhlosion, megalix and sneasel were. I'm not disagreeing with your post, just commenting that being S+ shouldn't mean (whatever 'mon it is) they are top priority for being suspected (see: Druddigon and Slowking, who both were S+ in BW RU VR w/o deserving to be suspected).

Edit: Sorry, just now I noticed I basically said the same thing in 4 different phrases, but I think you got my point lol

 

[AM]

Uh S+ is implying pdon level ranking. I dont think Ive seen a single mon in NU exemplify a characteristic to be that centralizing and broken to make S+ a thing. By the time you put anything on that level it should be banned lol. S+ is never necessary under normal circumstances.

 

[Kiyo]

So I brought something like this up to Raseri last month and atomicllamas reminded me of it. I seriously think we need to restructure these rankings, we currently have 40 Pokemon in either S or A rank. That is way too many.

The idea of adding more S rank slots seems like a really good fix to the issue of distinguishing whats better between the top mons, but it doesnt fix the fact that some pokemon are ranked higher than they should be and the fact that we really don't have that many A rank viable Pokemon.

However we can do the exact same thing by simply dropping Pokemon that are overhyped, don't fit easily on teams, or don't consistently perform their roles in all matchups.

Just to sort of show what I mean, here's a short list of Pokemon that I don't think should be in the A- rank due to those reasons: Malamar, Barbaracle, Floatzel, Haunter, Quagsire, Swellow, Weezing, Aurorus.

You may not agree with those rankings, but the fact of the matter is we have an inflated A rank, and hell half of the Pokemon in the B ranks I'd call my friends trash for using. The inflation has gotten worse and worse over time, because people try out new Pokemon, have success with them, and nom them for way higher than they deserve to go. The inflation isn't just in A rank imo, all the ranks have mons that definitely do not deserve it.

I'll make a mock up of a "new viability rankings list" with new definitions for each class a little later, so you can all put what I mean into perspective. But in general I think this thread needs a huge overhaul.

 

[XenoTech N]

We really don't need an S+ or S- rank. It makes the suggested Pokemon for S+, Sawk and Tauros, seem like they have absolutely no flaws whatsoever and that every team in NU should always use them as you honestly have no reason not to do so. But this isn't the case though is it? They do have flaws; Sawk is required to not have hazards up, so a deal of support is needed to make this not happen as well usually having to run Choice Band in order to break things and Tauros whilst does have an amazing speed tier all of its viable moves that get sheer force boosted can and will miss (iron head is not viable, stop using this ass move). being able to not touch the rock types in the tier at all and with it being a Normal type, it provides no defensive synergy at all.

Also this:




Going back to my first point, if you are gonna nominate we impose an S+ rank, these pokemon must work on all playstyles because they fit so well (look at primal groudon in ubers) and again, have absolutely zero opportunity cost. Sawk has an ass defensive typing and no bulk with that and even more so for Tauros. We're not gonna see these 2 on stall because they do nothing for it, but again if S+, they have to the most perfect Pokemon in NU.

They're good on one playstyle, that is not enough.
Also, it would mean that these would clearly be top priority for suspect testing.
Are they? No, because they aren't godlike; just very good.

Well what I was thinking was more along the lines of S and S-. My post only reflected what would probably happen, but I personally want to run a dual S rank system of S and S- because I believe there are clear S ranks, Clear A+ ranks,and ones that are in the middle. An S and S- system would help us define the best of the best, the next best, and the ones that don't fit in with either. It would also settle some recent arguments in terms of ranks such as Mega Audino, Rhydon and Archeops. I'm just saying dual rank S and S- is the way to go, because what we currently have Archeops and Rhydon being not as good as other S Ranks, and A+ ranks that some people are hesitant to include in S, such Mega Audino, Garbodor, Scyther and Samurott, but are a clear cut above the other A+ ranks.
Edit: NU is a tier where offense is pretty much the entire tier lol. It's very hard to pull off a stall team in NU, and therefore almost not even worth mentioning.

 

[QueenOfLuvdiscs]

Edit: NU is a tier where offense is pretty much the entire tier lol. It's very hard to pull off a stall team in NU, and therefore almost not even worth mentioning.

Just because it's hard, doesn't mean you can write it off completely. Stall may be less common as of this moment of time but it's still out there and how would that even affect the viability of a pokemon? You have to consider all playstyles, especially when it comes to S ranks, and not just rule one out lol.

 

[XenoTech N]

Just because it's hard, doesn't mean you can write it off completely. Stall may be less common as of this moment of time but it's still out there and how would that even affect the viability of a pokemon? You have to consider all playstyles, especially when it comes to S ranks, and not just rule one out lol.

My bad, I should have worded my phrase better. What I MEANT to say was that because stall is so hard to play that almost nobody plays it, and so I was questioning that particular playstyles' relevance in this tier, and if that should really hinder something being top rank in this tier. Other than that particular style of play I completely agree with you.

 

[Kiyo]

Ok, so keep in mind this is a first draft of this but I wanted to get these ideas out as quickly as possible.

Just some points I want to make:

the definitions of each rank are from the ru viability rankings thread (keep in mind i think these still need work and could use some changes). I did this because they incorporate a rule that we've been missing out on that i think directly contributes to viability: how easy is a mon is to fit on a team, and how consistent does that pokemon perform their role in a given matchup.

this thread is meant to be a resource for newer players, or more experienced players looking to learn nu. we don't want to confuse them or mislead them about whats good and what isnt, we legitimately had 40 pokemon in the a ranks and there simply aren't 40 pokemon that people should 100% have to prepare for with every team they build and those 40 pokemon certainly don't fit well enough on enough teams to justify their place in those ranks.

i've extended this list to allow for more pokemon to be in the D ranks, this isn't to say they belong their in our current set up. it's to say that we need to redefine what we see as a D pokemon. there are 137 pokemon on this list, they cant all be C rank mons and above no matter how much you want them to be, get those preconcieved notions of what a C mon is out of your head.

I was the only one to create this list so its very subjective and probably bears a lot of bias despite me trying to stay neutral. I disagree personally with a lot of these placings and I'm definitely sketchy on them. I don't want this post to turn into people picking and choosing which pokemon i misranked or that they feel should be ranked differently if you make a post doing so I will delete it. Keep in mind this is a mock up, not our actual current viability rankings thread, treat it as such.

S-Rank

S Rank:
The best of the best. Reserved for Pokemon who shape and define the NU metagame and are a clear-cut above the rest of the tier. These Pokemon are typically very powerful offensive threats that are difficult to prepare for or are phenomenal support and defensive threats that provide significant utility or defensive potential, respectively. Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

S
Archeops
Audino (Mega)
Rhydon
Sawk
Tauros

A-Rank

A Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame and can perform well against most play styles, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time. Pokemon in this rank are also known to define the play styles they fit on or are easy to add on any given team, while being able to carry their weight nearly every match.

A+
Garbodor
Lanturn
Magmortar
Musharna
Samurott
Xatu

A
Kangaskhan
Klinklang
Lilligant
Mesprit
Pyroar
Shiftry
Vileplume

A-
Carracosta
Gurdurr
Hariyama
Jynx
Ludicolo
Rotom
Scyther

B-Rank

B Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job, are setup bait for dangerous sweepers, or often give too many free turns. Pokemon who are partially outperformed or struggle with taking on the Pokemon in the A or S Rank, but are otherwise dangerous in their own right and aren't difficult to fit on teams, may also fall into this category.
B+
Combusken
Floatzel
Kabutops
Piloswine
Skuntank
Torterra
Weezing

B
Aurorus
Barbaracle
Ferroseed
Liepard
Malamar
Mawile
Quagsire
Swellow

B-
Claydol
Exeggutor
Gourgeist-S
Gourgeist-XL
Haunter
Hitmonchan
Pelipper
Prinplup
Zangoose

C-Rank

C Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective in the right setting, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks. Pokemon in this rank typically require more extensive support, struggle performing against the Pokemon ranked above, and are difficult to fit on teams.

C+
Cacturne
Pawniard
Poliwrath
Roselia
Rotom-Fan
Sandslash
C
Bouffalant
Electivire
Mismagius
Primeape
Regirock
Tangela
Vivillon

C-
Arbok
Articuno
Cradily
Crustle
Granbull
Jumpluff
Kecleon
Linoone
Miltank
Misdreavus
Stoutland
Vanilluxe
Zebstrika

D-Rank

D Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who have a small niche in the current metagame, but have very noticeable flaws that make them more trouble than they're worth the majority of the time. These Pokemon struggle performing against the Pokemon ranked above, and are difficult to fit on teams.These Pokemon are, for the most part, daft to use.

D+
Audino (Non-Mega)
Beheeyem
Chatot
Cryogonal
Flareon
Gorebyss
Huntail
Kadabra
Leafeon
Mr. Mime
Ninetales
Rampardos
Rapidash
Rotom-Frost
Ursaring
Victreebel
Zweilous

D
Dodrio
Drifblim
Gogoat
Grumpig
Hippopotas
Leavanny
Lickilicky
Mantine
Marowak
Ninjask
Raichu
Regice
Sawsbuck
Servine
Simipour
Simisage
Stunfisk
Swanna
D-
Avalugg
Basculin
Carbink
Delibird
Ditto
Dusclops
Dusknoir
Fraxure
Frillish
Frogadier
Golem
Kricketune
Lampent
Lapras
Metang
Muk
Probopass
Quilladin
Relicanth
Shedinja
Torkoal
Volbeat
Vullaby

I think in comparison to our current viability ranking thread, this is a much better representation of the current state of NU, what's good and easy to use, and what isn't.

 

[KnightK]

Ok, so keep in mind this is a first draft of this but I wanted to get these ideas out as quickly as possible.

Just some points I want to make:

the definitions of each rank are from the ru viability rankings thread (keep in mind i think these still need work and could use some changes). I did this because they incorporate a rule that we've been missing out on that i think directly contributes to viability: how easy is a mon is to fit on a team, and how consistent does that pokemon perform their role in a given matchup.

this thread is meant to be a resource for newer players, or more experienced players looking to learn nu. we don't want to confuse them or mislead them about whats good and what isnt, we legitimately had 40 pokemon in the a ranks and there simply aren't 40 pokemon that people should 100% have to prepare for with every team they build and those 40 pokemon certainly don't fit well enough on enough teams to justify their place in those ranks.

i've extended this list to allow for more pokemon to be in the D ranks, this isn't to say they belong their in our current set up. it's to say that we need to redefine what we see as a D pokemon. there are 137 pokemon on this list, they cant all be C rank mons and above no matter how much you want them to be, get those preconcieved notions of what a C mon is out of your head.

I was the only one to create this list so its very subjective and probably bears a lot of bias despite me trying to stay neutral. I disagree personally with a lot of these placings and I'm definitely sketchy on them. I don't want this post to turn into people picking and choosing which pokemon i misranked or that they feel should be ranked differently if you make a post doing so I will delete it. Keep in mind this is a mock up, not our actual current viability rankings thread, treat it as such.

S-Rank

S Rank:
The best of the best. Reserved for Pokemon who shape and define the NU metagame and are a clear-cut above the rest of the tier. These Pokemon are typically very powerful offensive threats that are difficult to prepare for or are phenomenal support and defensive threats that provide significant utility or defensive potential, respectively. Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

S
Archeops
Audino (Mega)
Rhydon
Sawk
Tauros

A-Rank

A Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame and can perform well against most play styles, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time. Pokemon in this rank are also known to define the play styles they fit on or are easy to add on any given team, while being able to carry their weight nearly every match.

A+
Garbodor
Lanturn
Magmortar
Musharna
Samurott
Xatu

A
Kangaskhan
Klinklang
Lilligant
Mesprit
Pyroar
Shiftry
Vileplume

A-
Carracosta
Gurdurr
Hariyama
Jynx
Ludicolo
Rotom
Scyther

B-Rank

B Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job, are setup bait for dangerous sweepers, or often give too many free turns. Pokemon who are partially outperformed or struggle with taking on the Pokemon in the A or S Rank, but are otherwise dangerous in their own right and aren't difficult to fit on teams, may also fall into this category.
B+
Combusken
Floatzel
Kabutops
Piloswine
Skuntank
Torterra
Weezing

B
Aurorus
Barbaracle
Ferroseed
Liepard
Malamar
Mawile
Quagsire
Swellow

B-
Claydol
Exeggutor
Gourgeist-S
Gourgeist-XL
Haunter
Hitmonchan
Pelipper
Prinplup
Zangoose

C-Rank

C Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective in the right setting, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks. Pokemon in this rank typically require more extensive support, struggle performing against the Pokemon ranked above, and are difficult to fit on teams.

C+
Cacturne
Pawniard
Poliwrath
Roselia
Rotom-Fan
Sandslash
C
Bouffalant
Electivire
Mismagius
Primeape
Regirock
Tangela
Vivillon

C-
Arbok
Articuno
Cradily
Crustle
Granbull
Jumpluff
Kecleon
Linoone
Miltank
Misdreavus
Stoutland
Vanilluxe
Zebstrika

D-Rank

D Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who have a small niche in the current metagame, but have very noticeable flaws that make them more trouble than they're worth the majority of the time. These Pokemon struggle performing against the Pokemon ranked above, and are difficult to fit on teams.These Pokemon are, for the most part, daft to use.

D+
Audino (Non-Mega)
Beheeyem
Chatot
Cryogonal
Flareon
Gorebyss
Huntail
Kadabra
Leafeon
Mr. Mime
Ninetales
Rampardos
Rapidash
Rotom-Frost
Ursaring
Victreebel
Zweilous

D
Dodrio
Drifblim
Gogoat
Grumpig
Hippopotas
Leavanny
Lickilicky
Mantine
Marowak
Ninjask
Raichu
Regice
Sawsbuck
Servine
Simipour
Simisage
Stunfisk
Swanna
D-
Avalugg
Basculin
Carbink
Delibird
Ditto
Dusclops
Dusknoir
Fraxure
Frillish
Frogadier
Golem
Kricketune
Lampent
Lapras
Metang
Muk
Probopass
Quilladin
Relicanth
Shedinja
Torkoal
Volbeat
Vullaby

I think in comparison to our current viability ranking thread, this is a much better representation of the current state of NU, what's good and easy to use, and what isn't.

Yea that is a massive improvement over the previous list. There are a few mons that stick out as kinda low though. Like I wouldn't put Mismagius in C rank. But considering this is just the first edition of the new ranking list it is great.

 

[LeoLancaster]

Hi I don't play NU, but I've been watching this thread from the beginning and I have something for you guys to consider. Before you jump on me I should say this isn't a nomination post. This is about viability rankings in general, and seems appropriate considering the reworking of the rankings.

I've never understood why a list which is supposed to show all viable pokemon in a metagame includes things which are, well, "daft to use." I know VRs are supposed to be comprehensive, but I don't think anyone would ever use or recommend a D rank pokemon on/for a serious team.

C ranks tend to be pokemon that are viable, but only for specific cases where you can't get everything you need out of a less niche option; these are the things that will show up on serious teams every once in a while. D ranks tend to be stuff that has no real niche but technically can work if you build a team specifically to accommodate them. So why include a D rank on a list of viable pokemon at all? I suggest removing the D ranks entirely, which allows for a better focus on pokemon which actually contribute something to teams and the metagame.

Finally, I don't mean to bash the NU community. You guys do a good job, and this certainly isn't unique to NU. Bloat is an issue for every metagame, but a more exclusive viability ranking system could help alleviate that.

 

[Steakburgers]

Hi I don't play NU, but I've been watching this thread from the beginning and I have something for you guys to consider. Before you jump on me I should say this isn't a nomination post. This is about viability rankings in general, and seems appropriate considering the reworking of the rankings.

I've never understood why a list which is supposed to show all viable pokemon in a metagame includes things which are, well, "daft to use." I know VRs are supposed to be comprehensive, but I don't think anyone would ever use or recommend a D rank pokemon on/for a serious team.

C ranks tend to be pokemon that are viable, but only for specific cases where you can't get everything you need out of a less niche option; these are the things that will show up on serious teams every once in a while. D ranks tend to be stuff that has no real niche but technically can work if you build a team specifically to accommodate them. So why include a D rank on a list of viable pokemon at all? I suggest removing the D ranks entirely, which allows for a better focus on pokemon which actually contribute something to teams and the metagame.

Finally, I don't mean to bash the NU community. You guys do a good job, and this certainly isn't unique to NU. Bloat is an issue for every metagame, but a more exclusive viability ranking system could help alleviate that.

I kinda agree and i kinda disagree. While its abit cluttered having a D-rank and nobody wants the D (mons), they're there because we have mons that are actually worse than those and deserve like unranked. It's kinda like ru where they have a blacklist, unranked mons are our blacklist and if you're in D, you're not there but you probably shouldn't be proud how close you are to being there. I dunno if we have like a D+ D and D- but for D i would just keep it to just the D, and thats it
Cause i think probopass was suggested for D rank, and although to many people its not viable for some reason, putting it in unranked imo would be alittle to harsh
D is there for a good reason i'd say
Not terrible enough for unranked but not nearly as good enough for c-

 

[Ares]

A lot of the Pokemon in the D rank are fun to use on non serious teams and can be used by a better player to decent affect. I think the D rank is more like, "hey try out these mons if you want have fun" kind of thing. I'll probably ask some of the english majors to help me rewrite the descriptions for each rank at some point. I also think that Kiyo's rankings are a bit to harsh, but at the same time he is right in saying we're overinflated.

 

[Aasgier]

A lot of the Pokemon in the D rank are fun to use on non serious teams and can be used by a better player to decent affect. I think the D rank is more like, "hey try out these mons if you want have fun" kind of thing. I'll probably ask some of the english majors to help me rewrite the descriptions for each rank at some point. I also think that Kiyo's rankings are a bit to harsh, but at the same time he is right in saying we're overinflated.

If you take this definition for D-rank, then you can rank Pikachu safely to D-rank as well. I doubt that is what we actually want.