Serious US Election Thread (read post #2014)

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brightobject

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My favorite Ben Carson is comparing homosexuality to bestiality and pedophilia
tack on his campaign comparing Planned Parenthood to Nazi eugenics programs lol
I respect and appreciate his work as a neurosurgeon and enjoyed his autobiography but let's be real, this guy should not be running at ALL.

also, reminder that Bernie Sanders is "a self-declared socialist with a thin record of achievement, his theme song might as well be 'You Can;t always Get What You Want.'" (David Von Drehle, TIME)
 

Ampharos

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Speaking of socialism, it irks me that the vast majority of the American voter-base automatically thinks of "socialism" as a dirty word without even stopping to think of what socialism even IS. And this is coming from someone who personally disagrees with socialism as an economic system.

Despite what I literally JUST said, I'll be voting for Sanders in the democratic primary, largely for his stance on social issues and because I think he's a much more principled and honest politician than Hillary Clinton. I'd like to vote in the Republican primaries as well (side note: thank you Texas for having open primaries), but I'd have to actually go back and watch the debate first because I'd rather not go in uninformed - though if this thread is anything to go off of, Kasich seems pretty likely.
 

Chou Toshio

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Eh... I consider myself a strong advocate of capitalism, but looking at the "major" economic reforms proposed by Bernie, most of them I would find palatable. I don't think that the reforms suggested would drastically damper the efficiency of America's market, and might even succeed in raising more tax revenue from wealthy individuals and corporations-- and he's going to have to fight for each one tooth and claw.

Bernie's potential economic impact, my concerns would be:
-Bernie talks a good game for young people, but I hope he knows that just investing in youth education/opportunities won't be enough; that cutting away the deficit is also key-- and that raising taxes alone is not enough, AND will not liberate young people in the same way that reforming state obligations will. You need to get more tax revenue AND reform state obligations.

-I highly doubt Bernie's political strength to actually get any of his proposals passed-- because he is far MORE divisive than Obama is. Unless we also give him same-party dominated house and Senate, I don't see Bernie being able to make major changes to the tax laws/structure (or anything else actually...).

Otherwise, even as a general advocate of small government and capitalism, I g2 say that Bernie has got the most inspiring story amongst any of the current candidates. At this point, I would strongly consider voting for him. If you can't get at the gut of issues with genuine understanding and empathy, people won't follow you.

Besides, as an expat, I don't pay US taxes without a significant salary increase, so I'll vote for higher state benefits and let you guys pay for them
 
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Myzozoa

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http://www.peaceandfreedom.org/home/about-us/resolutions-and-statements/1189-invitation-sanders

Thus, the far left supports Sanders candidacy should he lose in the primary (and he will so this is not a problem). wishes would have wings either way.

Been meaning to post in this thread for a while but I always feel like the drama is only going to get more melo so why not wait for the next instance of a politician looking the fool.

Today I heard on the radio Hilary doing the best to distance herself from the republican field with progressive rhetoric (i.e, 'all the republican candidates are stuck in the past', 'terrorists'-which i loved btw, ). She, like so many republicans before her, pointed to the exemplary insanity of Donald Trump's campaign, etc.

So basically im seeing something that goes like this:

Trump distances himself from the republican establishment and vice versa, paving the way for the (more or less rout establishment) platforms of the other candidates' to be accepted as more moderate and less ridiculous. Look for the republican field to wax triumphant when trump's campaign finally dies and at each primary that trump gets rekt. Meanwhile, Hilary uses the spectacle of trump to distance herself from the washington consensus on foreign policy, erasing her support of the wars of the Bush administration and the neo-reagonomics of her husband's administration.


Anyway, I really don't know what to expect this time around as far as who will win.

I've always maintained that Hilary was unelectable since she is surely no friend to the non-'white women' of the millennial American left, she is further a woman (which means all the avowed sexists wont vote for her and there are still plenty of those around), the Iraq war, and married to that Bill Clinton fuck, and god aren't there just so many good reasons to not vote for her... (all of this said i will still vote for her)

IF ONLY

The republicans are practically fielding no one this time around. Unbelievable missed opportunity for Romney to walk his way to the presidency, like jesus christ America. we all dodged a bullet that he ain't running because he would sweep this weak ass 2016 field. the democrats wouldn't have a chance. But instead theyre likely to field Rand Paul (represents oil interests, they are his economic base that finances his campaign), Kasich (idk anything about this one tbh), or Bush (also oil, just as his own interest, not his constituent).

Chris Christie, however, is their most threatening candidate to Hilary, on most ps analyses (and by the Dem's own admittance), but I don't see him taking her on actually. Chris Christie, I would point out, will probably not be able to ticket up with Bush if it comes to that point. Chris Christie + Paul or Cruz (Paul and Cruz also cant win if they run together i think) might be able to muster a challenge, but I just don't see Christie capturing the imagination of the republican base.


btw I saw this today http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/08/things-wish-known-gaslighting/ highly relevant to the psychosis of american elections.


and so i also would remind you, as another user above did, that Bernie sanders is not going to win shit and sometimes all those stereotypes about the naivette of the youth are affirmed when we start that talk. That being said, I have no idea who will win, this is an election of 'dread' because it offers no glimpse to the outcome, but all the signs point to a poor one.

EDIT: Kanye2020 PLZ

edit 2: and on Ben Carson, my (doctor) father advises me that neurosurgeons are typically terrible surgeons.
 
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GatoDelFuego

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Joe Biden?

I'm a hopeful looking at his chances being a democrat with 'experience' that isn't the walking PR disaster that is hillary. Granted every time he opens his mouth somebody else gets offended but that's just part of the ride.
 

chaos

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lol at jeb bush's tax plan. "simplify the tax code" seems to be republican speak for "cut corporation tax again, cut taxes for the wealthy again"

also why do the republicans always talk a big game about closing loopholes in the name of a simple tax code, and yet it never seems to happen?
 

Bughouse

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lol at jeb bush's tax plan. "simplify the tax code" seems to be republican speak for "cut corporation tax again, cut taxes for the wealthy again"

also why do the republicans always talk a big game about closing loopholes in the name of a simple tax code, and yet it never seems to happen?
I think the answer you're looking for is "lobbying" or, if you want a nice euphemism, "government relations."
 

Ampharos

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Read the fine print though. 62% of the respondents were interviewed via landline, which is going to skew the results towards the Trump demographic.

"Among just the universe of cell-phone respondents, Clinton defeats Trump by 16 points; Sanders defeats Trump by 12 points; Biden defeats Trump by 17 points; and Gore defeats Trump by 17 points."
 
I really like Bernie Sanders's policy and positions but I worry that he is seriously unelectable. Not only is socialism (unfortunately) a "dirty word" in American politics, but his age could be a large factor as well. If you combine the ages of Biden and Sanders as they'd be on inauguration day, you get 149. Seriously, that is not good.
 
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Uh, not a politics expert or anything, but am I the only guy seeing trump having a very real chance at winning this while everyone is debating over other candidates? At least 1/3 of the US didn't even bother voting or they're unregistered, and I can see trump pulling the most out of that demographic.
 

Stratos

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i mean when a major narrative is "all the republicans are racist" theres really not a better way to deal with it if youre jeb, you cant just let it sit. i dont support him but the fact that he's using his wife being mexican to prove hes not racist isn't one of the things i hold against him.

i think macle's point was just that jeb is the kind of guy who likes his own fb status
 

Shrug

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Stratos said:
i mean when a major narrative is "all the republicans are racist" theres really not a better way to deal with it if youre jeb, you cant just let it sit. i dont support him but the fact that he's using his wife being mexican to prove hes not racist isn't one of the things i hold against him.
Problem is, the reb. debate on immigration is framed by the frontrunner who managed to say some rather racist things and be endorsed... which means any debate on same is going to go through that lens. It's an unfair bias against reps. but one also brought out by the person they've (as in, the base) anointed as their front-runner. I get why Jeb has to combat it, but i wish the discourse was in a place where it wasnt "border helicopters? giant wall? y/n?" so much as "how can we curb illegal immigration (often a vector for criminal activity) and replace it with more efficient legal immigration?" which jeb and rubio prolly want to do but they're being suppressed rn
 

Bughouse

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Trump isn't even the craziest person running for president. I met this guy outside of Staples today. I actually did meet him like 10 seconds after I took this picture... but I didn't get one with him in it.

http://www.jeffbossforpresident.org/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Boss
https://www.facebook.com/Jeff-Boss-479399208763516/timeline/
http://www.vice.com/read/i-met-the-next-president-of-the-united-states-jeff-boss-in-times-square



ps no that's not my Jaguar lol... that was some other guy reading the signs too
 
I really like Bernie Sanders's policy and positions but I worry that he is seriously unelectable. Not only is socialism (unfortunately) a "dirty word" in American politics, but his age could be a large factor as well. If you combine the ages of Biden and Sanders as they'd be on inauguration day, you get 149. Seriously, that is not good.
When was the last time you Yanks didn't elect some old bastard?

Also, i'd like to point out that while Sanders is good for the United States, he's got his own set of issues if elected. He's a massive supporter of US imperialism, and has supported policies which undermine American education, such as the Murphy Amendment on EaSE act. Furthermore, he's done little for the socialist cause as a whole. IMO Sanders is a social democrat, not a socialist, and his labelling as a "socialist" just goes to show that he's more of a populist than anything else.
 
Hey, I like Trump. Don't get me wrong, I think he's a complete lunatic and I disagree with pretty much everything he says, but there's no denying he's a badass.
 

Bad Ass

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Hey, I like Trump. Don't get me wrong, I think he's a complete lunatic and I disagree with pretty much everything he says, but there's no denying he's a badass.
i don't equate rampant racism and misogyny with badassery. maybe speaking your mind is bad-ass but when you are running to lead the god damn united states of america your platform should not be "i say whatever i want without thinking about it or researching it". donald trump is the definition of an ass clown, a distraction from any semblance of actual political process that goes in in the god-forsakenly long lead up to the actual election, and although he will certainly drop off in the polls his current popularity brings out a deep and profound personal cynicism in the american people.

do not conflate my name with such a man.
 
When was the last time you Yanks didn't elect some old bastard?

Also, i'd like to point out that while Sanders is good for the United States, he's got his own set of issues if elected. He's a massive supporter of US imperialism, and has supported policies which undermine American education, such as the Murphy Amendment on EaSE act. Furthermore, he's done little for the socialist cause as a whole. IMO Sanders is a social democrat, not a socialist, and his labelling as a "socialist" just goes to show that he's more of a populist than anything else.
Why would the Murphy Amendment have undermined education? The only negative I really see is the typical Libertarian talking point of federal overreach. However, education, from instructional methods to the skills and knowledge necessary to succeed, are pretty universal... Without a standard, or some sensible minimum requirements, you'll have some states excel, but also many fail. Unlike many state-level issues, a poor early education is immensely damaging to a child's future success; essentially, a better childhood education results in improved adulthood.

I disagree with current success metrics, accountability, and funding methods for schools, and so far the federal government has done little to improve these aspects, but states have done no better. A solid public education system is one of the most important services a government can provide to children, and in turn, the future generations. If you leave such a critical issue to states, you'll get massive disparities in quality of education and put more burden on other agencies when federal involvement is necessary (such as upholding civil rights). Even now, there's many states that fight tooth and nail to teach "intelligent design" as a plausible theory alongside evolution, and just recently, Texas schools are now rewriting history to fit their policymaker's biased, conservative viewpoints. Without federal governance, this problem will become increasingly worse.

Regarding your point about Sanders being a US imperialist, I found that surprising, so I did a little research. Does this article do justice on your stance regarding Sanders' imperialism? In any case, I noticed he tended to vote only for bills that had minimal ground involvement, such as the 2001 bill. His anti-visa stance makes sense when you consider corporations abusing it to essentially import workers to replace qualified American employees. Funnily enough, pro-globalization (typically a Republican stance) or pro-immigration (typically a Democrat stance), you are essentially introducing the same core issue, forcing Americans to compete with the global workforce, for good or bad, and neither group of policymakers wants to deal with the side effects of their policies.

To be honest, I do not have a problem with the idea of US imperialism (in the sense of protecting our interests abroad). In theory, the US is a pioneering country, ahead of its time from its inception. What we (as a country) stand for was unmatched until relatively recently, and still remains superior in many ways (top one off my head is the broad definition of freedom of speech; hate speech laws, common in many European countries, are unconstitutional, among others, which is incredibly important from a freedom standpoint). In practice, we do plenty of horrible things (recently you have outright constitutional violations with the NSA, shady deals with rebels, invasion of Iraq under false pretenses, so on and so on).

But what other country could hope to stem a more malicious superpower-to-be? For example, China has immense interest in supporting Africa. I would go as far to say as they have better relations with Africa than the US does today. Yet, China is by no means a champion of human rights or freedoms, in words or actions--and they are the most viable future superpower. China is by no means USSR, but their policies are in direct opposition to Western ideals.

Even though Dos Passos wrote his image of the US some 80 years past, I still hold it to be true and an excellent summary of what our country stands for, and post an excerpt here: "U.S.A. is the slice of a continent. U.S.A. is a group of holding companies, some aggregations of trade unions, a set of laws bound in calf, a radio network, a chain of moving picture theatres, a column of stockquotations rubbed out and written in by a Western Union boy on a blackboard, a public-library full of old newspapers and dogeared historybooks with protests scrawled on the margin in pencil. U.S.A. is the world's greatest rivervalley fringed with mountains and hills, U.S.A. is a set of bigmouthed officials with too many bankaccounts. U.S.A. is a lot of men buried in their uniforms in Arlington Cemetery. U.S.A. is the letters at the end of an address when you are away from home. But mostly U.S.A. is the speech of the people."
 
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