Ladder Balanced Hackmons

Cant deny the fact that Magikarp Registeel is OP...



Magikarp Registeel @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
- Magic Coat
- Stealth Rock
- Destiny Bond
- Rapid Spin

EDIT: Danke Pikachuun. Registeel is OP indeed.
 
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Pikachuun

the entire waruda machine
Cant deny the fact that Magikarp is OP...



Magikarp @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
- Magic Coat
- Stealth Rock
- Destiny Bond
- Rapid Spin
Denying. You lose to -atespeed, Magic Bounce, Taunt (with prediction), Infestation, and quite a few other things. It's far better to use something more reliable such as Registeel, Giratina, etc.; heck even Deo-S is better than this.
 

MAMP

MAMP!
Cant deny the fact that Magikarp Registeel is OP...



Magikarp Registeel @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
- Magic Coat
- Stealth Rock
- Destiny Bond
- Rapid Spin

EDIT: Danke Pikachuun. Registeel is OP indeed.
this set doesn't do anything against a player that knows what they're doing. it has 0 offensive presence, and destiny bond is fairly predicatble and easy to play around. this will just get set up on, and most likely will do little more than set up rocks, and maybe spin once or twice if youre lucky.
 
Not to mention Rapid Spin is easily blockable vs any Ghost. Defog would generally be better, as it gets priority from Prankster, and can't be blocked. Magic Coat is a decent move but it is too passive for a set like this. Consider U-Turn as an alternative.
 
This is an idea that I came up with trying to get to sleep one night (My brain is weird). I consider it my personal goal to make it the best it can be. As of right now, I think this is it. I present... the Shedinja Team!!!



...Not impressed? I guess I can't blame you. While on the surface it seems like a jerk move by some noob who just wanted to see the reactions of people upon seeing six Shedinja (which isn't entirely untrue), I actually put quite a bit of thought into these sets. There's a method behind the madness. Here are three Shedinja sets that I find work really well together.


Shedinja @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Bounce
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Endeavor
- Extreme Speed
- Odor Sleuth
- Gastro Acid

This first Shedinja is going to be your lead. Its job is to keep hazards and status conditions off the field. I found that Rocks and Spikes (obviously) killed this team. Not only that, but it counters itself quite nicely by bouncing its own Odor Sleuth and Gastro Acid back at anything running Imposter. You want to keep this one alive long enough to take down everything that wants to set up entry hazards. If it can take out Will-O-Wisp users as well, that can also help.


Shedinja @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Endeavor
- Extreme Speed
- Odor Sleuth
- Gastro Acid

If you can't get all the entry hazards off the field, the battle isn't entirely over. I Magic Guard is one of the most recent additions to the team. The reason I added it in the first place was actually to stop poison and burns from destroying the team. I hadn't known that it also stopped hazards, so that was a great bonus. Weather is also a good way to stop Shedinja, so this guy is a response to that, as well.


Shedinja @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Sturdy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Endeavor
- Extreme Speed
- Odor Sleuth
- Gastro Acid

Of course, no Shedinja set would be complete without the classic Sturdy Shedinja. The main point of interest on this one is actually the item. I've seen the Lum Berry used on Shedinja, and while that is a great option for preventing status conditions, I like the Safety Goggles better. I find that people seem to like using powder moves, namely Spore. The Safety Goggles not only stop that but weather as well.
And I may or may not have had a noob moment in the creation of this team and thought Safety Goggles stopped entry hazards. But that's irrelevant.


Each of the three Shedinja appear in my team twice. Why? Because I'm uncreative and didn't know what else to do. But that's also irrelevant. In any case, having two Magic Bouncers works better than one, because if the first can't handle the entry hazards, the second can pick up the slack. Also, should the opponent get off Stealth Rocks or Spikes at some point when your Magic Bouncer is not out for some reason, it used to demolish the team. Having two Shedinja with Magic Guard means your team is crippled, rather than demolished.

As for the moves, Endeavor is used as a FEAR-like strategy. The attacking move needs to be a priority move to keep the opponent from knocking out the Focus Sash holders. I tried out several priority moves and finally decided on Extreme Speed, for one reason: It doesn't affect Ghosts. That helps keep Imposter Chansey in line. Before Extreme Speed, I needed to set up an Odor Sleuth to make sure Endeavor hit, then use Endeavor, then use the priority move, while it was just a pair of Aqua Jets from Chansey on the Focus Sash users. With a move that doesn't affect Shedinja itself, I force to opponent to set up a bit more, and sometimes that's all it takes.

Speaking of not affecting Ghosts, that's what Odor Sleuth is for. I added it because I had been watching balanced Hackmons before I came up with the idea for the team, and I saw the popularity of Giratina. I needed a way to take that out. As it would turn out, Mega Gengar makes an appearance in BH quite a bit, from what I've seen.

Finally, Gastro Acid. Sturdy Shedinja shows up in BH on its own. Shedinja's FEAR strategy doesn't work on itself all that well. gastro Acid will supress Sturdy. The downside is that you'll also have to set up an Odor Sleuth before you can take down an opposing Shedinja, while it usually won't have to.

I put EVs on the only stats that matter: Attack and Speed. They're Jolly Nature so they can outspeed... Shuckle? I dunno. Not like there's a better stat to improve.

I have a few replays of the team in practice. One thing to note is that most of these replays end in forfeits. That is the Shedinja Team's main goal: to annoy the opponent to the point where they throw up their hands and say "Screw it." While it can take out some teams, It works more efficiently if the opponent gives up.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-263123951

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-263173613

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-263186933

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-263188407

I'm not sure what to say about this next replay. It shows exactly how Magic Guard saves you from hazards, and how hazards can still kill this team. that being said, I should have lost this match. You'll see why if you watch it.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-263189252

The team, of course, isn't invulnerable. Imposter will be my first example, since I have a replay of it. If the opponent leads with the Imposter user, it will bounce back your Gastro Acid and Odor Sleuth, and this could happen.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-263175445

Don't watch the whole thing.

Once again, hazards can do a number on the team if you let them get set up. Weather will take out your Magic Bouncers, as well. Moves that do residual damage, such as Whirlpool, will hit the team pretty hard. Status conditions can take down a solid third of the team. Mold Breaker is nasty, as is circumvents both Sturdy and Magic Bounce (I'm not sure about Magic Guard. Someone let me know). Pretty much any strategy that takes out a normal Shedinja takes a chunk out of the team.

Of course, the fact that there is more than one Shedinja means that it's a lot harder to take the team down. Strategies that work against one Shedinja usually don't work on the entire team. Maybe a reason to include some kind of species clause in BH? Just saying.

Anyway, comments, constructive criticism, suggestions, and cries of outrage are helpful. Maybe eventually, I'll be able to make a team so OP, Shedinja will be banned from BH! But for now, I think I like the team the way it is.
 
This is an idea that I came up with trying to get to sleep one night (My brain is weird). I consider it my personal goal to make it the best it can be. As of right now, I think this is it. I present... the Shedinja Team!!!



...Not impressed? I guess I can't blame you. While on the surface it seems like a jerk move by some noob who just wanted to see the reactions of people upon seeing six Shedinja (which isn't entirely untrue), I actually put quite a bit of thought into these sets. There's a method behind the madness. Here are three Shedinja sets that I find work really well together.


Shedinja @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Bounce
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Endeavor
- Extreme Speed
- Odor Sleuth
- Gastro Acid

This first Shedinja is going to be your lead. Its job is to keep hazards and status conditions off the field. I found that Rocks and Spikes (obviously) killed this team. Not only that, but it counters itself quite nicely by bouncing its own Odor Sleuth and Gastro Acid back at anything running Imposter. You want to keep this one alive long enough to take down everything that wants to set up entry hazards. If it can take out Will-O-Wisp users as well, that can also help.


Shedinja @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Endeavor
- Extreme Speed
- Odor Sleuth
- Gastro Acid

If you can't get all the entry hazards off the field, the battle isn't entirely over. I Magic Guard is one of the most recent additions to the team. The reason I added it in the first place was actually to stop poison and burns from destroying the team. I hadn't known that it also stopped hazards, so that was a great bonus. Weather is also a good way to stop Shedinja, so this guy is a response to that, as well.


Shedinja @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Sturdy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Endeavor
- Extreme Speed
- Odor Sleuth
- Gastro Acid

Of course, no Shedinja set would be complete without the classic Sturdy Shedinja. The main point of interest on this one is actually the item. I've seen the Lum Berry used on Shedinja, and while that is a great option for preventing status conditions, I like the Safety Goggles better. I find that people seem to like using powder moves, namely Spore. The Safety Goggles not only stop that but weather as well.
And I may or may not have had a noob moment in the creation of this team and thought Safety Goggles stopped entry hazards. But that's irrelevant.


Each of the three Shedinja appear in my team twice. Why? Because I'm uncreative and didn't know what else to do. But that's also irrelevant. In any case, having two Magic Bouncers works better than one, because if the first can't handle the entry hazards, the second can pick up the slack. Also, should the opponent get off Stealth Rocks or Spikes at some point when your Magic Bouncer is not out for some reason, it used to demolish the team. Having two Shedinja with Magic Guard means your team is crippled, rather than demolished.

As for the moves, Endeavor is used as a FEAR-like strategy. The attacking move needs to be a priority move to keep the opponent from knocking out the Focus Sash holders. I tried out several priority moves and finally decided on Extreme Speed, for one reason: It doesn't affect Ghosts. That helps keep Imposter Chansey in line. Before Extreme Speed, I needed to set up an Odor Sleuth to make sure Endeavor hit, then use Endeavor, then use the priority move, while it was just a pair of Aqua Jets from Chansey on the Focus Sash users. With a move that doesn't affect Shedinja itself, I force to opponent to set up a bit more, and sometimes that's all it takes.

Speaking of not affecting Ghosts, that's what Odor Sleuth is for. I added it because I had been watching balanced Hackmons before I came up with the idea for the team, and I saw the popularity of Giratina. I needed a way to take that out. As it would turn out, Mega Gengar makes an appearance in BH quite a bit, from what I've seen.

Finally, Gastro Acid. Sturdy Shedinja shows up in BH on its own. Shedinja's FEAR strategy doesn't work on itself all that well. gastro Acid will supress Sturdy. The downside is that you'll also have to set up an Odor Sleuth before you can take down an opposing Shedinja, while it usually won't have to.

I put EVs on the only stats that matter: Attack and Speed. They're Jolly Nature so they can outspeed... Shuckle? I dunno. Not like there's a better stat to improve.

I have a few replays of the team in practice. One thing to note is that most of these replays end in forfeits. That is the Shedinja Team's main goal: to annoy the opponent to the point where they throw up their hands and say "Screw it." While it can take out some teams, It works more efficiently if the opponent gives up.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-263123951

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-263173613

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-263186933

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-263188407

I'm not sure what to say about this next replay. It shows exactly how Magic Guard saves you from hazards, and how hazards can still kill this team. that being said, I should have lost this match. You'll see why if you watch it.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-263189252

The team, of course, isn't invulnerable. Imposter will be my first example, since I have a replay of it. If the opponent leads with the Imposter user, it will bounce back your Gastro Acid and Odor Sleuth, and this could happen.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-263175445

Don't watch the whole thing.

Once again, hazards can do a number on the team if you let them get set up. Weather will take out your Magic Bouncers, as well. Moves that do residual damage, such as Whirlpool, will hit the team pretty hard. Status conditions can take down a solid third of the team. Mold Breaker is nasty, as is circumvents both Sturdy and Magic Bounce (I'm not sure about Magic Guard. Someone let me know). Pretty much any strategy that takes out a normal Shedinja takes a chunk out of the team.

Of course, the fact that there is more than one Shedinja means that it's a lot harder to take the team down. Strategies that work against one Shedinja usually don't work on the entire team. Maybe a reason to include some kind of species clause in BH? Just saying.

Anyway, comments, constructive criticism, suggestions, and cries of outrage are helpful. Maybe eventually, I'll be able to make a team so OP, Shedinja will be banned from BH! But for now, I think I like the team the way it is.
You are hardwalled by ghosts/imposter, which can switch spam to negate odor sleuth. Besides that, you lose to the most common shedinja counters: infestation/other trapping, moldy pursuit, etc. Mono-sheddy is bad, i r8 0.8/8, n0t gr8, i h8.
 
Yeah mono shed isn't all that viable. As always, its a gimmick strategy that needs to catch an opponent of guard and have a good match up to win. You said it yourself.

Strategies that work against one Shedinja usually don't work on the entire team.
But if you face a team with multiple checks and counters to shed you are highly likely to lose. While I agree Species Clause would benefit the meta by making it less match up based and more skill intensive, we have had 3 Species clause votes and it hasn't happened yet.

As for your team, it just loses to several sets and Pokemon. Odor Sleuth is a poor move choice, it's slow, gives free switches, and can't do anything to 2 Ghost types. A team with 2 ghost types can infinitely switch and PP stall your whole damn team lol. So you need scrappy or -ate. Your team is also troubled by Mold Breaker every way to Sunday. Moldy + Hazard leads literally take out two thirds of your team. So run Defog. Rocky Helmet Registeel 6-0's your team by spamming healing, so run Leech Seed and other non-contact killers. Your weakness to Imposter can be fixed be not enabling your Sheds to beat every other member of your team. Do all of these improvements and the team may get more consistent, but it will never be that good against top tier teams.
 
In addition to the above, if you encounter a Ghost-type with Magic Bounce, you lose, period. Giratina is not an uncommon runner of Magic Bounce and sometimes even pairs Curse with it. You also lose to anything that sets-up Substitute as well.
 
Also just a recommendation to improve your team as you seem it plays out, Feint would beat Extremespeed because it'll still KO things at 7%, but it won't lose to Spiky Shield (rare as it is). Pretty ridiculous team, but yeah you lose to moldbreaker hazards right off the bat, unless you have a Magic Guard Shedinja in there somewhere that can correctly deal with hazards via defog or some other way.
 
This is completely unrelated to the previous comments.

On one of my teams I have a Mega-Metagross with Mummy and Extremespeed, and Mummy doesn't activate when I use Extremespeed. Can someone please fix that?
 

QueBien

Nomad, vagabond, call me what you will
This is completely unrelated to the previous comments.

On one of my teams I have a Mega-Metagross with Mummy and Extremespeed, and Mummy doesn't activate when I use Extremespeed. Can someone please fix that?
Mummy activates if the Pokemon is hit by a contact move, not if it uses one.

Edit: rekt
 
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This is completely unrelated to the previous comments.

On one of my teams I have a Mega-Metagross with Mummy and Extremespeed, and Mummy doesn't activate when I use Extremespeed. Can someone please fix that?
Mummy only triggers when your opponent makes contact with your pokemon, so this is correct.

Edit: mfw ninjaed
 
Not sure where else to post this but: Cya OMs, I'm gonna have to start an entirely new account because Jiibriil got permalocked. I was stupid enough to log onto a proxy (Tor), and got banned for- get this- being rortik. I won't question the mods that decided this, but I'm not gonna bother to try and convince them otherwise. I have my theories on why this occurred (piccolo might be know why too), but no more than that. Sorry :(
 
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What's a good replacement for Primal Ogre? Well, Ogre itself of course. Normal Ogre has the same HP and Defense as its Primal Reversion and only 20 less in SpD (That might still lead to several life or death situations, better get a Quiver Dance up before trying to take any Boombursts). To be on the safer side, invest more in SpD than you usually did on your Primal Ogre.

Mega Slowbro might first seem like a good option, but there are always a bunch of Dark Types hanging around in BH, so that's a big no.
 
Volcanion is decent if you want to abuse the typing, but it unfortunantly doesnt have the complete stat spread to fully put all the weight it could
Arceus can pull off a similiar set but unfortunantly it doesnt have the water typing to go with it.

In general, ogre itself is probably the best at taking its old job back, cause its very unique job for it.
 
It's not really so much as Ogre replacing Pogre as it is Ogre no longer having a replacement. About the only sets Ogre can't do that Pogre could are the physical attacking ones. Regenest, Poison Heal, Drizzle, Prankster, Magic Bounce, and all the others still work. Except maybe Protean because Mewtwo and Mega-Ray.
 
Physical ogre still works, its just horribly weak without boosts and is better suited to utility roles.

In the finals of a BH tour today I encountered Head Smash/Wood Hammer Mega Diancie. This got me thinking: What can safely switch in to Reckless Diancie? Sure, you kill yourself twice as fast as Staraptor in standard, but seriously, I calced, and the only thing that avoids a 2HKO is Physically Defensive Flash Fire Aegislash.

Diancie-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Light of Ruin
- Head Smash
- Wood Hammer
- V-create

This pretty much explodes anything that tries to switch in to it. Fur Coat Chansey is 2HKO'd by Head Smash. Giratina is OHKO'd by Light of Ruin. The only safe switch I found was Flash Fire Aegi, which must run Physically Defensive to avoid a 2HKO from Head Smash (If Calcing this set, set Light of Ruin's BP to 168 as the calc fails to boost it with Reckless). If someone can find something that always avoids a 2HKO from this, then please post it.(Shedinja doesnt count because it's horribly exploitable)
 

sin(pi)

lucky n bad
In the finals of a BH tour today I encountered Head Smash/Wood Hammer Mega Diancie. This got me thinking: What can safely switch in to Reckless Diancie? Sure, you kill yourself twice as fast as Staraptor in standard, but seriously, I calced, and the only thing that avoids a 2HKO is Physically Defensive Flash Fire Aegislash.

Diancie-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Light of Ruin
- Head Smash
- Wood Hammer
- V-create

This pretty much explodes anything that tries to switch in to it. Fur Coat Chansey is 2HKO'd by Head Smash. Giratina is OHKO'd by Light of Ruin. The only safe switch I found was Flash Fire Aegi, which must run Physically Defensive to avoid a 2HKO from Head Smash (If Calcing this set, set Light of Ruin's BP to 168 as the calc fails to boost it with Reckless). If someone can find something that always avoids a 2HKO from this, then please post it.(Shedinja doesnt count because it's horribly exploitable)
What does Wood Hammer hit? I feel like replacing it with HJK would improve your coverage and allow you to break FF steels. STABs/HJK/V-Create lets you break Registeel and MAggron regardless of their spreads (4 SpA Life Orb Mega Diancie Light of Ruin vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Aggron: 148-174 (43.1 - 50.7%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO, which rises to about 50% with rocks up) - the only things I could find that walls that spread were PhysDef FF Aegi and Fur Coat MSteelix but then:

4 SpA Life Orb Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 177-211 (54.7 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

4 SpA Life Orb Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Steelix: 190-226 (53.8 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
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Physical ogre still works, its just horribly weak without boosts and is better suited to utility roles.

In the finals of a BH tour today I encountered Head Smash/Wood Hammer Mega Diancie. This got me thinking: What can safely switch in to Reckless Diancie? Sure, you kill yourself twice as fast as Staraptor in standard, but seriously, I calced, and the only thing that avoids a 2HKO is Physically Defensive Flash Fire Aegislash.

Diancie-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Light of Ruin
- Head Smash
- Wood Hammer
- V-create

This pretty much explodes anything that tries to switch in to it. Fur Coat Chansey is 2HKO'd by Head Smash. Giratina is OHKO'd by Light of Ruin. The only safe switch I found was Flash Fire Aegi, which must run Physically Defensive to avoid a 2HKO from Head Smash (If Calcing this set, set Light of Ruin's BP to 168 as the calc fails to boost it with Reckless). If someone can find something that always avoids a 2HKO from this, then please post it.(Shedinja doesnt count because it's horribly exploitable)
It having no switch ins seems horribly exploitable. Imposter Chans could take a set like this and run through an opponent's team. And for a set thats basically a more reliable and less fragile Final Gambit Blissey? Sure it might 2hko Chansey with Head Smash, but at what cost....

Edit: Fur Coat Chansey is only 2hko when it has to switch into rocks.
 
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It having no switch ins seems horribly exploitable. Imposter Chans could take a set like this and run through an opponent's team. And for a set thats basically a more reliable and less fragile Final Gambit Blissey? Sure it might 2hko Chansey with Head Smash, but at what cost....

Edit: Fur Coat Chansey is only 2hko when it has to switch into rocks.
Magic Guard>Reckless
Basically what I wanted to say. Never ever run a mon can be used against you. It's impressive that it can 2HKO Chansey, but think of it the other way around. What if Chansey switches in after you have KOed something? Will you be able to stop it? You can with Shedinja, but you yourself have rightfully said that it is exploitable.

If you are very good at predictions though, feel free to use this stuff. Passive offense boosts are the best way to get around walls in BH.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
flash fire registeel seems like a decent stop to the set, and its not like ff regi isnt viable...buuut i do agree magic guard gives it the survivability, which is far more appriciated on a set like that, which decimates all its counters regardless. heck, flash fire aegis lets you run high jump kick too, all in all, as having used this set...its...actually kinda underwhelming. so many things outspeed it. and even though its meant to break walls, protean mm2 can easily accomplish the same thing, with more power, coverage and more speed to boot. and has a way more convenient counter method (slapping on fairy plate judgement for example, lets you run giratina as a wall, while maintaining a 120 base power stab move off 150 spc attack, its actually not that far off from LoR. and with mm2y, if it runs physically based, it can basically mimic this set to the finest degree, having slightly lower attack, while having spc attack that still beats diancies. and having more speed yet again. its like...sure you have more power, but protean decimates walls anyways, so theres really no logic to having something stronger, but slower. diancie doesnt even beat chansey, since without reckless, you dont 2hko, and if you run reckless, head smash/light of ruin kills you on the first hit.
 
Physical ogre still works, its just horribly weak without boosts and is better suited to utility roles.
No, it doesn't work. I mean, it does on the grounds that, technically, you can have bad or unviable Pokemon pull weight in the meta, but why would you ever use Kyogre's paltry base 100 attack over Gyrados' 155, Swampert's 150, or heck, even Palkia's 120?
 
I was referring to running physical moves on ogre just for the utility. Knock Off in particular is something that I've been using for a long time and is definitely worth mention on utility sets because of how unexpected it is. And yes, purely physical ogre is probably a bad idea.
 

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