Hoopa [QC: 0/3]

[DaSpoofy]

"If a man harbors any fear, it makes him land lord to a ghost"
[OVERVIEW]

• An extremely high special attack stat makes Hoopa a fantastic wall breaker.
• Access to Nasty Plot allows Hoopa to be an effective set up sweeper.
• Great special bulk that allows Hoopa to set up on certain pokemon.
• Bad typing and defense leaves Hoopa easily revenge killed.
• Typing allows Hoopa to come in safely on common bulky set up sweepers.
• A low speed stat for a revenge killer but Hoopa has good enough speed to be an effective wall breaker.

[SET]
name: Bloody Mary
move 1: Trick Room
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Psyshock/ Psychic
move 4: Focus Blast
item: Life Orb
ability: Magician
nature: Modest
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves

• Trick room allows Hoopa to sweep faster teams and out-speed its revenge killers.
• Shadow Ball is stab that hits bulky psychic types and other ghost types.
• Psyshock is to break through some specially defensive walls. Psychic is a nice alternative providing a more powerful stab.
• Focus Blast hits dark and steel types that can kill you off. Energy Ball provides a sure KO on Krookodile. It also makes Hoopa a great water type switch in.

Set Details
========

• Max HP and no speed is a very good alternative. It lacks the revenge killer aspects of max speed but provides a more ensured late game clean.
• Life Orb increases Hoopa's ability to take out threats in one hit. This conserves trick room turns and makes it so the opposing pokemon don't have a chance to hit back.
• The EVs make Hoopa not entirely dependent on trick room support. Hoopa can be effective without it and with it.
• Magician is not useful in this set unless you want to run a berry to help you sweep.

Usage Tips
========

• Use Hoopa as a revenge killer and a wall breaker against slow teams. Use trick room against faster teams like hyper offense. Trick room can be hard to set up at times. Try to set it up on the switch or on a weaker attacking pokemon.
• Hyper Offence appreciates the strong cleaner that Hoopa is known for. Both Hoopa and a hyper offense team benefit each other. Hyper offense wears down the opposing team making the Hoopa clean up a lot easier.
• Trick room teams can be greatly benefited by Hoopa's insane power and special bulk. Generally TR teams lack offensive Trick Room setters and Hoopa excels at this role.
• Be weary of pursuit trappers. Trick room is your key out. Make sure you have it set up if you want to knock out a pokemon without being knock out the following turn.
• Know what you are faster and slower than. This lack of knowledge can cause you to set up trick room on a slower pokemon allowing them to hit you twice and potentially knocking you out.

Team Options
========

• Hazard leads, such as Froslass, Azelf, and Infernape, all work great with Hoopa. They induce chip damage on the opposing team making the Hoopp clean more viable.
• Sticky web users are still great even with the trick room option. Other hazards such as spikes and stealth rocks can ensure KOs on opposing pokemon.
• Hail, leech seed, and status spread widdle down opposing pokemon so Hoopa can sweep easier under Trick room or not.
• Other trick room abusers can benefit from Hoopa such as Pangoro and Escavelier.
• Heavy special attackers constantly put pressure on the opposing special walls which wears them down for an easier trick room sweep.

[SET]
name: Casper
move 1: Shadow Ball
move 2: Focus Blast
move 3: Psyshock / Nasty Plot
move 4: Substitute / Nasty Plot
item: Salac Berry / Life Orb / Leftovers
ability: Magician
ivs: 30 HP
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

• Nasty Plot gives Hoopa more power to effectively knock out common walls such as Empoleon, Florges, and Umbreon. Nasty Plot can be replaced for the sake of coverage. Thunderbolt hits Mandibuzz and steel types without the fear of missing. Energy Ball on timid Hoopa can get a surprise kill on Mega Swampert and can hit Krookodile without the fear of missing.
• Substitute helps with the risky predictions Hoopa is forced into. It also ensures safety when setting up on pokemon like Blissey.
• Shadow Ball is Hoopa's main stab that allows perfect coverage coupled with Focus Blast. Psyshock is still a great option allowing Hoopa to break down special walls with less boosts.
• Focus Blast is our coverage move that help immensely with taking out bulky walls such as Porygon2 and dark types like Umbreon.

Set Details
========

• Salac Berry allows Hoopa to out-speed common revenge killers once it is consumed. This, however, can be swapped out for Life Orb or Leftovers depending on power output or survivability.
• Dark Types, such as Krookodile and Mandibuzz, work as great team mates as the offensive and defensive typings work great together to break walls and take hits.
• The EV spread, with timid, ensures that you will get a boost after three subs from Salac Berry and will have the speed of 393, which outspeeds Adament Mega Beedrill. Modest should be used with Life Orb or Leftovers as the speed increase from salac is not enough to be a consistent sweeper.
• Magician is a toss up on how effective it can be. Salac Berry allows this ability to be used to possibly steal leftovers from your opponent. Unfortunately, its not rare to steal items like choice scarf, black sludge, and life orbs which all limit Hoopa's ability to sweep.

Usage Tips
========

• When using salac berry, it is important to conserve Hoopa's hp until an opportunity opens up for Hoopa to come in and sweep, however, if Hoopa has Life Orb or Leftovers, it can switch into things much easier and revenge kill or wall break.
• Hyper offense, bulky offense, and balance can all appreciate a wall breaker such as Hoopa, especially when it can nasty plot on stall teams.
  
• Do not start killing things with Hoopa until the opposing pursuit trappers are gone. Substitute allows a bit of a guard in this matter since you can use sub on the switch and kill with a move or switch out without dying to pursuit.
• Hoopa can set up on a number of pokemon in the meta. Be cautious of these pokemon as they could have coverage for Hoopa such as knock off or shadow ball.

Team Options
========

• Sticky Web users support Hoopa's bad speed and allows it to possibly sweep without the salac berry boost. Hoopa also blocks rapid spinners that want to get rid of the sticky web. This is the same deal with spike stacking and other entry hazards.
• Memento, Trick, and Screens all allow Hoopa to set up much easier.
• Offensive fighting types build a nice offensive core with Hoopa. These fighting types can switch into dark attacks and fire off stab attacks. A lot of pokemon that switch into fighting types don't want to take a hit from Hoopa (Nidoqueen, Reuniclus, Doublade).
• Knock off spammers can be useful considering the wrong item stolen with Magician on a sweep can be the death of Hoopa.
• Pokemon with colbur berry such as Meloetta, Slowking, and Chandelure, can lure a knock off or a pursuit and knock out the opposition with the right move. This can make Hoopa no longer fear the pursuit trap.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

• Timid can be a nice option since it out speeds common max speed no nature base 80's.
• No speed trick room can be conserved and used as a cleaner. This can be a safer alternative to fast trick room.
• Petaya Berry over Salac Berry can hurt stall more.
• Focus Sash allows you a surprise kill on pursuit trappers and steals their item.
• Choice Scarf provides instant speed.
• Choice Specs provides massive power without the self life orb damage.
• Trick is a valuable option on choiced sets.
• Thunder Wave punishes certain switches and allows Hoopa to out-speed and kill.
• Hidden Power Fighting is a safer but less effective fighting move.
• Destiny Bond can be helpful with sucker punch predictions.
• Taunt can prevent defogging away sticky web.
• Calm mind can be a valuable option so Hoopa can set up on special attackers easier.
• Reflect and Light Screen is a nice support option.
• Physical moves like Drain Punch and Gunk Shot are decent options because of Hoopa's 110 base attack.

Checks and Counters
===================
**Pursuit Trappers**: This is Hoopa's number one threat. Pursuit trappers can ensure that Hoopa does nothing for the entirety of the match. Common trappers to look out for are Krookodile, Mega Aerodactyl, and Honchkrow.

**Faster Physical Attackers**: A lot of faster physical attackers can knock out hoopa in one hit with their stab attacks. The ones that can't usually have some type of coverage that can kill off Hoopa.

**Opposing hazards**: Hoopa has no reliable recovery and; therefore, gets worn down by entry hazards plus life orb pretty easily. This limits the amount of hits Hoopa gets off before it runs out of HP.

**Common Special Attackers**: Pokemon like Hydreigon and Chandelure are very splashable and used on a great amount of teams. These special attackers can out speed and KO Hoopa as well as switch into a predicted attack.

**Special Walls**: Although Hoopa can run Nasty Plot and Psyshock, Special walls like Gligar and Mandibuzz can come in and kill Hoopa off with Knock off. If you aren't running Nasty Plot or Psyshock, most special walls can take hits from Hoopa and heal up accordingly.

**Doublade**: This pokemon can come in on any of Hoopa's attacks, barring shadow ball, and kill it off with priority shadow sneak. Doublade can ruin a Nasty Plot salac berry sweep.

 

[DaSpoofy]

Yeah this is my first analysis so please forgive any mistakes that I have made. YABO and I were discussing these sets for a while last night. These are the most effective within the UU meta because they have a way to dodge pursuit trapping as well as emit great wall breaking/ sweeping potential.

Here is me and YABO's discussion. I might refer to this for any concerns.

(long) Discussion

DaSpoofy: this is what i have
22:05unnamed: idk how i feel about 4 attacks
22:06unnamed: its just SUCH krook bait
22:06DaSpoofy: its always ganna be krook bait
22:06unnamed: ya but with sub
22:06unnamed: you can ease prediction
22:06unnamed: and with just 4 attacks you get revenged 100% of the time
22:06unnamed: whereas with sub you can sub as they sack something
22:07unnamed: and then they have to bust the sub too
22:07unnamed: while also lettin you outplay sucker too
22:07DaSpoofy: you are assuming every team with have a pursuit trapper
22:07unnamed: same thing with tr, you help your krook matchup by not forcing you to predict ont eh switch
22:07unnamed: the thing is you dont want to have a matchup where it starts 5v6
22:07unnamed: sure there are games without a trapper
22:08unnamed: but when there IS one you are completely fucked
22:08DaSpoofy: erm
22:08unnamed: also p sure you need a 30hp iv for the salacto activate at 25%
22:08DaSpoofy: oh whoops
22:09unnamed: unless the 52 hp does something
22:09DaSpoofy: sry i had petaya on it eralier
22:09unnamed: for that
22:09DaSpoofy: nm Im dumb
22:09unnamed: we can hop in a game to test it out if you want
22:09unnamed: also what is 204 modest for at +1
22:09unnamed: azelf?
22:10DaSpoofy: its defensive arcanine at no boost
22:10DaSpoofy: and
22:10DaSpoofy: ah shit
22:10DaSpoofy: Im adding speed
22:10DaSpoofy: I dont even hit azelf
22:11unnamed: ya you need timid 176
22:11unnamed: for azelf
22:11unnamed: probably a bit more whimsi would guess
22:11DaSpoofy: or modest max
22:12unnamed: nah
22:12unnamed: azelf hits 361
22:12DaSpoofy: the thing is I want this usable without the salac boost
22:12DaSpoofy: as well as with it
22:12unnamed: modest is 239
22:12unnamed: meaning you miss out
22:12DaSpoofy: crap
22:12DaSpoofy: I mean
22:13DaSpoofy: do we want to hit azelf?
22:13DaSpoofy: its generally only a lead
22:13unnamed: not really
22:13unnamed: np azelf is common
22:13DaSpoofy: cmon
22:13DaSpoofy: Ive seen one in my life time
22:13unnamed: its really really good
22:13DaSpoofy: where do you see them?
22:13DaSpoofy: I know its good
22:13unnamed: i use it a ton
22:13DaSpoofy: but its not common
22:14unnamed: and bob uses it
22:14unnamed: i guess its not THAT important to hit that
22:15unnamed: but max timid is also appealing for non max speed crobat
22:15DaSpoofy: yeah
22:15DaSpoofy: umm
22:15DaSpoofy: this is hard
22:15unnamed: you miss out on max speed bylike 1 point
22:15unnamed: which is annoying af
22:15DaSpoofy: because timid no item hits not too hard
22:16unnamed: go modest
22:16DaSpoofy: yeah
22:16DaSpoofy: we hit adament aero
22:16unnamed: with enough for helio at +1 or something
22:16DaSpoofy: before the mega
22:16unnamed: ada aero isnt common
22:16unnamed: at all
22:16DaSpoofy: ok then we go down to
22:17unnamed: go for like helio
22:17unnamed: or something
22:17unnamed: at the very least coba
22:17DaSpoofy: hmm
22:17DaSpoofy: yeah at least 106
22:17DaSpoofy: 108*
22:17DaSpoofy: espeon frosslass at 120
22:17DaSpoofy: 110
22:17DaSpoofy: but meh
22:18DaSpoofy: yeah helio
22:18DaSpoofy: thats fine
22:18unnamed: 224 for coba
22:19unnamed: you tie helio with that
22:19unnamed: since its a jump point
22:19unnamed: meaning its 4 more evs for froslass
22:19unnamed: after hittin helio
22:20DaSpoofy: congrats we saved 6 hp points lol
22:20unnamed: wait
22:20unnamed: does pokemonround up or down
22:20DaSpoofy: no
22:20unnamed: up right
22:20DaSpoofy: up i think
22:20DaSpoofy: 224 too slow
22:21unnamed: ya so 236
22:21DaSpoofy: nm
22:21unnamed: hits 110s
22:21unnamed: whereas 228 hits 109s
22:21DaSpoofy: kk\
22:21unnamed: and 224 for coba
22:21unnamed: also id pobably go the evs in defense
22:21unnamed: instead of hp
22:21unnamed: but idk
22:21unnamed: or even SpD idk
22:21unnamed: actually probably hp or def
22:22unnamed: hp helps with scald rolls
22:22unnamed: on sub
22:22DaSpoofy: 4 def rest hp odd number
22:22unnamed: you need an even number i thought
22:22unnamed: since salac activates at 25
22:22DaSpoofy: crap ok
22:22DaSpoofy: all hp
22:22unnamed: we test after
22:23DaSpoofy: yeah
22:23DaSpoofy: alright we have mas speed tr
22:23DaSpoofy: salac np stall killer
22:23DaSpoofy: and regular LO timid
22:24unnamed: reg lo timid is more of a mention on tr as well or at the least the worst opption
22:30DaSpoofy: worst option is choice scarf
22:30unnamed: well ya but thats not a set
22:30DaSpoofy: its OO
22:30unnamed: ya
22:30unnamed: even lo 4 attack should be oo imo
22:30unnamed: it needs some form of protection vs pursuit
22:31DaSpoofy: Im just weary giving out two modest hoopas
22:31DaSpoofy: but I trust you so
22:31DaSpoofy: we'll do TR and stall killer
22:31unnamed: its like the same thing as honchkrow
22:31unnamed: just note that timid is cool for beating stuff like ada tyrantrum
22:32DaSpoofy: yeah but honch has base 80 stab proirity
22:32DaSpoofy: yeah
22:32DaSpoofy: OO
22:32unnamed: ya but running timid doesnt help you
22:32unnamed: since you dont have priority anyways
22:32unnamed: and you only catch a couple other things with timid
22:32unnamed: which are uncommon as well
22:32DaSpoofy: it beats something i though
22:32DaSpoofy: t
22:32DaSpoofy: it ties with mega pert
22:32DaSpoofy: wait no
22:32DaSpoofy: it beats mega pert
22:33DaSpoofy: hold on
22:33unnamed: timid hoopa ties pert
22:33unnamed: they are the same base speed
22:33DaSpoofy: pert runs adament
22:34DaSpoofy: it beats all adament and modest 85s
22:34DaSpoofy: yeah I guess timid is just a mention
22:34unnamed: you mean 75s
22:34DaSpoofy: I could slash it with modest on TR
22:34DaSpoofy: 85s
22:34DaSpoofy: 80s*
22:34unnamed: timid 70s dont beat ada 85s
22:34unnamed: oh 80s
22:35DaSpoofy: sry
22:35DaSpoofy: ok so OO or slash on tr
22:35unnamed: set comments
22:35unnamed: no slash
22:35unnamed: you were wary of speed on tr
22:36unnamed: now you want timid trick room
22:36unnamed: you are one crazy mofo
22:36DaSpoofy: lol
22:36unnamed: also shadow ball > psyshock
22:36unnamed: imo
22:36DaSpoofy: no I like speedy TR
22:36DaSpoofy: but Im trying not to make this creative sets
22:36unnamed: sub shields you from shadow sneak
22:36unnamed: and you want to hit that
22:36unnamed: and psyshock > psychic
22:37unnamed: you have sball to hit on special side
22:37unnamed: and psyshock busts open florges
22:37DaSpoofy: I would hate to take out its hardest hitting move
22:37DaSpoofy: if it doesnt kill
22:37DaSpoofy: it dies
22:38unnamed: shadow ball does a million percent
22:38DaSpoofy: Ill slash
22:38unnamed: to everything
22:38unnamed: its fine
22:38DaSpoofy: no lol
22:38unnamed: psyhock is first slash
22:38unnamed: on tr
22:38DaSpoofy: kk
22:38DaSpoofy: florges does 0
22:38unnamed: ya but you dont wantit stalling out tr turns
22:38DaSpoofy: nm dont quote me on that
22:38unnamed: or somehting like that
22:38DaSpoofy: yeah true
22:38unnamed: it does like 30
22:38DaSpoofy: hold on
22:38unnamed: with mb
22:38DaSpoofy: ganna do a calc
22:39unnamed: like 35 more like
22:39unnamed: you should probably post this log somewhere btw
22:39unnamed: since we went over p much everything about the sets
22:39DaSpoofy: we are faster than florges
22:39unnamed: ya ik that
22:39unnamed: you just want to 2hko florges
22:39DaSpoofy: k Ill save log
22:40unnamed: so it doesnt wlal you
22:40DaSpoofy: does psychic do that?
22:40YABO: idts
22:40YABO: it might
22:40YABO: but idk
22:40DaSpoofy: erm
22:40DaSpoofy: 252+ SpA Hoopa Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 147-174 (40.8 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
22:41DaSpoofy: thats cm florges
22:41DaSpoofy: on no lo
22:41YABO: ya
22:41YABO: so you fuck it up
22:41DaSpoofy: 252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 191-226 (53 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
22:41YABO: ye
22:41DaSpoofy: define fuck it up
22:41YABO: easy 2hko
22:41DaSpoofy: lol
22:43DaSpoofy: lemme add some slashes
22:44DaSpoofy: beautiful ehh?
22:50YABO: remove tbolt slash on sub
22:51YABO: and idk how i feel bout the slashes on the second set
22:51YABO: since i feel fblast is more or les mandatory
22:51YABO: and tbolt is definitely a no go over fblast
22:51YABO: since you die to krook
23:04DaSpoofy: hold on sry
23:10DaSpoofy: Thunderbolt hits mandibuzz a lot harder
23:10DaSpoofy: gn kills krook without fear of missing
23:10DaSpoofy: also hits waters ofc and other grounds
23:10DaSpoofy: NP thunderbolt KOs mandibuzz
23:11DaSpoofy: if you are scared of krook
23:11DaSpoofy: s ball still does half and you can widdle it down since it has no recovery
23:12DaSpoofy: its not a total stop

 

[YABO]

• Shadow Ball first slash over Psyshock on NP, hitting doublade is really important, especially when hiding behind a sub.
• Remove Tbolt slash on Substitute, Hoopa needs something to help it versus Pursuiters.
• Mention its absurd special bulk that lets it take hits from things like Special attacking Salamence

252 SpA Life Orb Salamence Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 218-257 (53.9 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Salamence Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa: 196-231 (65.1 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

• Trick Choice set mentioned in oo.
• Dbond is a good option, albeit tough to fit on sets.
• taunt, calm mind, signature moves, physical movepool, dual screens should be oo.
• do some tests with sub cm or something, could have potential to set up alongside stuff like Suicune who can't break your sub with a small amount of investment.
• Expand team options to include stuff that takes on Hoopa's checks to wear them down earlier in the game. Potentially add a couple lures or something idk.
• Doublade should probably get a solid mention somewhere as it comes in on everything but Shadow Ball and knocks you out with Sneak from full.

That's pretty much it for now but I'll take another look later to double check, good job.

 

[Heavyweapons Mann]

This might seem crazy, but mixed sets should be in at least other options given Hoopa's decent base 110 attack.

 

[Bouff]

i haven't seen it enough so i'm not sure if it warrants a full set, but sub cm should definitely get an oo mention

 

[DaSpoofy]

• Shadow Ball first slash over Psyshock on NP, hitting doublade is really important, especially when hiding behind a sub.
• Remove Tbolt slash on Substitute, Hoopa needs something to help it versus Pursuiters.
• Mention its absurd special bulk that lets it take hits from things like Special attacking Salamence

252 SpA Life Orb Salamence Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 218-257 (53.9 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Salamence Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa: 196-231 (65.1 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

• Trick Choice set mentioned in oo.
• Dbond is a good option, albeit tough to fit on sets.
• taunt, calm mind, signature moves, physical movepool, dual screens should be oo.
• do some tests with sub cm or something, could have potential to set up alongside stuff like Suicune who can't break your sub with a small amount of investment.
• Expand team options to include stuff that takes on Hoopa's checks to wear them down earlier in the game. Potentially add a couple lures or something idk.
• Doublade should probably get a solid mention somewhere as it comes in on everything but Shadow Ball and knocks you out with Sneak from full.

That's pretty much it for now but I'll take another look later to double check, good job.

Did half of this and will finish the rest soon. Im making all these changes btw but I wanted to share some of my thoughts on your stuff.

• Remove Tbolt slash on Substitute, Hoopa needs something to help it versus Pursuiters.

I was thinking this would work well with sticky web and it kills mandibuzz at plus 2.

• taunt, calm mind, signature moves, physical movepool, dual screens should be oo.

Taunt and calm mind for sure. Signature moves as in Hyperspace hole and fury? Hole is super situational. I personally would never chose it over psyshock of psychic. Hyperspace fury hits nothing that shadow ball doesnt hit hard besides normal types. And even then you can opt for Focus blast as it hits way harder.

PleaseDontBanMe Even though hoopa has base 110 attack I struggle to find a situation where it can use any of its physical moves over its special. Psyshock does a wonderful job of hitting the physical side. All the other coverage on the physical side is stronger as a hidden power on its special side (gunkshot is 9% exception)

4 Atk Life Orb Hoopa Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 265-315 (37.1 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 344-407 (48.1 - 57%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 378-446 (52.9 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

• do some tests with sub cm or something, could have potential to set up alongside stuff like Suicune who can't break your sub with a small amount of investment.

Will do! Bouffalant

 

[Heavyweapons Mann]

Hoopa can't even use Hyperspace Fury. Only Hoopa-U can use it.

 

[Christo]

I am not QC and am new around here but OTR Hoopa should most definitely be its main set. Sub Nasty Plot is waaaay more niche than OTR because it only does well vs one play-style: Stall/Semi-Stall. OTR, on the other hand, does well vs all play styles and has way more opportunities to break teams. I have zero clue why the OTR set is running max speed. I understand you still out-slow almost all offensive pokemon but you will not be able to out-slow the walls you are trying to break. 0 IVs -speed nature out-slow most pokemon other than like Reun, Abomasnow, and -speed nature tangrowth. Max HP is what actually makes Hoopa a threat. This set will be aimed to get a free switch on a Special attacker that is not a dark type and still be able to get its hits off with LO. Here is a random Calc: 252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa: 134-160 (36.8 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (Fucking Tanked ez).

Also a small thing: "Reflect and Light Screen is a nice support option." Reflect and Light Screen is a nice support option for any pokemon(obviously) and I don't see a reason to add this since Hoopa doesn't really need that much help setting up compared to any other offensive pokemon

 

[DaSpoofy]

I am not QC and am new around here but OTR Hoopa should most definitely be its main set. Sub Nasty Plot is waaaay more niche than OTR because it only does well vs one play-style: Stall/Semi-Stall. OTR, on the other hand, does well vs all play styles and has way more opportunities to break teams. I have zero clue why the OTR set is running max speed. I understand you still out-slow almost all offensive pokemon but you will not be able to out-slow the walls you are trying to break. 0 IVs -speed nature out-slow most pokemon other than like Reun, Abomasnow, and -speed nature tangrowth. Max HP is what actually makes Hoopa a threat. This set will be aimed to get a free switch on a Special attacker that is not a dark type and still be able to gets its hits off with LO. Here is a random Calc: 252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hoopa: 134-160 (36.8 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (Fucking Tanked ez).

Also a small thing: "Reflect and Light Screen is a nice support option." Reflect and Light Screen is a nice support option for any pokemon(obviously) and I don't see a reason to add this since Hoopa doesn't really need that much help setting up compared to any other offensive pokemon

I added it because I was told to lol. As for main set, Hoopa's typing does allow it to start setting up on some common pokemon outside of stall such as P2, Snorlax, Reuniclus, Cresselia, Choiced mons, and Slowking. It usually scares something out and you get a free sub. I've been using it and the problem is still it's speed. It's hard to try to kill off the choiced scarf pokemon early since people use it as a cleaner or revenge killer. You can't lure it in too well. Plus there are still a lot of things faster than hoopa at plus 1. And if you get the NP off and the salac you still don't kill everything. I remember being disappointed when my plus 2 hoopa left blastoise with 17% and ruined my sweep.

I see your points and you could very well be right. Hoopa NP kinda sucks. YABO what do you think?

 

[YABO]

TR should be main set now that I've played with it more. Sub NP is still good but tr is more usuable

 

[kokoloko]

i would love for my salac boosted hoopa to get outsped by froslass and espeon too

 

[DaSpoofy]

i would love for my salac boosted hoopa to get outsped by froslass and espeon too

yeah those mid game frosslass get me every time

Edit: btw Im reorganizing some more things and then this should be ready for QC.

 

[kokoloko]

ok since you seem to not understand i'll explain:

when's the last time you heard ANYONE say "damn i sure am glad i put those 12 EVs in HP!" never? probably.

when's the last time you heard someone say "fuck man i should have just ran max speed" last week? probably.

just lower the IV to make the hp divisible by 4 if necessary and max the speed

you also get a nice guaranteed loss vs base 70 scarfers with non-max... because what? you want to create a fancy EV spread to show off your knowledge of speed tiers?

ps. good job ignoring my mention of espeon

pss. sometimes saving that 1 hp froslass is the correct play so midgame lass actually /is/ a thing.

psss. yes i am saying you should be timid more often than modest if you're running salac

 

[DaSpoofy]

ok since you seem to not understand i'll explain:
when's the last time you heard ANYONE say "damn i sure am glad i put those 12 EVs in HP!" never? probably.
when's the last time you heard someone say "fuck man i should have just ran max speed" last week? probably
just lower the IV to make the hp divisible by 4 if necessary and max the speed
you also get a nice guaranteed loss vs base 70 scarfers with non-max... because what? you want to create a fancy EV spread to show off your knowledge of speed tiers?
ps. good job ignoring my mention of espeon
pss. sometimes saving that 1 hp froslass is the correct play so midgame lass actually /is/ a thing.
psss. yes i am saying you should be timid more often than modest if you're running salac

Yeah I understand. I'm not trying to show off (why do people keep thinking that?). You are right. The speed to catch 110 is overall worth it. Timid is, however, a bit underwhelming. Even modest is a bit underwhelming. There are no base 70 scarfers besides magneton. The amount of support Hoopa needs to sweep with salac berry is pretty harsh. This is not only because of its still low speed after salac, but also its low power are +2. You think it would kill things but a 80 base power shadow ball doesn't hit really hard.

 

[Alfalfa]

Yeah I understand. I'm not trying to show off (why do people keep thinking that?). You are right. The speed to catch 110 is overall worth it. Timid is, however, a bit underwhelming. Even modest is a bit underwhelming. There are no base 70 scarfers besides magneton. The amount of support Hoopa needs to sweep with salac berry is pretty harsh. This is not only because of its still low speed after salac, but also its low power are +2. You think it would kill things but a 80 base power shadow ball doesn't hit really hard.

No sweeper outside of Ubers can OHKO 99% of opposing targets once boosted (except for Azumarill in OU, but that is irrelevant). Nasty Plot + Salac Berry Hoopa, just like any other sweeper, is meant to sweep when the opposing team is already weakened. Thus, if and when it attempts to sweep, Hoopa should not encounter that many difficulties KOing opposing Pokemon anyways. Sure, the power loss between Modest and Timid is significant, but considering that Hoopa already has Nasty Plot and base 150 Special Attack, it should have more than enough power to clean once the opposing team is weakened. Putting in a Timid nature in the set is not that much of a fallacy, considering most sweepers would kill to have the combination of such a high Special Attack stat, be able to hold an item to take advantage of that Special Attack, and double its Special Attack in a single turn.

 

[Sam]

sub 3 atk is also a usable set...idk if it should be a main set but at the very least oo

and yeah timid should be main slash on non tr sets

 

[DaSpoofy]

Questions: Should the slow tr and fast tr be two different sets??
Sam what item on that set. Lefties life orb?

Btw Im sorry this is taking so long but a lot of controversal and interesting sets/options are being thrown at me. Ive tested out salac and cm. Both are a little dissapointing. I may just be building around them wrong. Hoopa np 6-0s bad stall but not well contructed stall.

I know both tr sets are pretty good. Keep leaving suggestions. I will just keep testing and reorganizing this until it is right.

 

[Sam]

lefties

 

[Heavyweapons Mann]

Not QC, but a Choice Specs set somewhere would be nice. You forgo Nasty Plot / SubSalac to hit hard right away and become an early to mid-game wallbreaker

 

[dodmen]

There only need to be one TR set. Max Speed is what I would list on the set because having to set up just to outspeed shit like Florg/Gligar/even Umbreon is a pain. But max HP can be listed in Set Details.

Also, yeah just max out the Speed on the first set. Makes no sense to have 236 EVs in speed lol just for 12 HP points, just lower HP IVs to get a sub number. Not being able to at least tie other hoopa/mega pert when you could easily is just wasteful. And like Sam said, Timid should be the main slash on non-TR sets. CM should only be in other options.

Edit @ below: what I'm talking about is having to set up TR just to move before Florges and Gligar. That is something that shouldn't be necessary because having to set up TR just means they can recover stall your TR turns till they can move faster than you again.

 

[Martin]

I mean, if you're worried about outpacing defensive 'mons without TR up,.this can be achieved with a spread of a spread of either 132 HP / 252 SpA / 124 Spe (outpaces 0 speed Gligar) or 76 HP / 252 SpA / 180 Spe (outpaces SpD Roserade), and these achieve a middle ground between the max HP spread and the max speed spread so that it doesn't need to set up TR just to outpace defensive 'mons while also enhancing its performance with TR up.

Aside from this, I do have a few comments:

• On the NP set, add Knock Off users as partners as they allow for the removal of items from the opponent, which is handy in preventing Hoopa from stealing random Life Orbs which could impede its sweep after consuming its Salac berry.
• Add Snatch to OO as it allows Hoopa to steal Softboiled from Blissey

 

[Alfalfa]

I mean, if you're worried about outpacing defensive 'mons without TR up,.this can be achieved with a spread of a spread of either 132 HP / 252 SpA / 124 Spe (outpaces 0 speed Gligar) or 76 HP / 252 SpA / 180 Spe (outpaces SpD Roserade), and these achieve a middle ground between the max HP spread and the max speed spread so that it doesn't need to set up TR just to outpace defensive 'mons while also enhancing its performance with TR up.

Aside from this, I do have a few comments:

• On the NP set, add Knock Off users as partners as they allow for the removal of items from the opponent, which is handy in preventing Hoopa from stealing random Life Orbs which could impede its sweep after consuming its Salac berry.
• Add Snatch to OO as it allows Hoopa to steal Softboiled from Blissey.

I mean, Snatch has its uses, but where is Hoopa going to fit space for it? It is highly situational, and Hoopa would rather reserve its moveslot for something more consistent and less match-up dependent to work.

 

[DaSpoofy]

Ready for QC check!

Changes:
Reorganized the sets
Implemented slashes on Nasty Plot to compliment Sam's 3 attack sub set.
Tested Bouffalant's CM set. I found it to be good in specific situations compared to NP. Too specific however to be given a set on its own.
Timid main slash
Added Physical moves in OO
Added PleaseDontBanMe's Choice Specs suggestion in OO
Fixed the descriptions to match their new sets (I think I got all of them)
Added Christo The Gr8's max HP set into set details
Added Lures and stuff to team options

 

[DaSpoofy]

Ready for Qc :)

 

[dodmen]

Trick Room

Remove Eball as a slash, you kinda absolutely need Focus Blast so you can hit a bunch of stuff, most important Hydreigon.

Usage Tips should generally highlight the types of teams that the set would be used on (this goes for any analysis). So you can say it serves as a decent breaker or even cleaner on HO, support on semi-TR teams, etc.

Try to go into more specifics on Team Options - talk about specific Pokemon that can provide the right type of support and also work well on the same team as Hoopa (eg Froslass as a Spikes user)

Second set

The moves are kind of messy. First of all, if you're gonna be running only 2 attacks, they should be Shadow Ball and Focus Blast. Change the moves to: 1. Shadow Ball 2. Focus Blast 3. Psyshock / Nasty Plot 4. Substitute / Nasty Plot. Thunderbolt and Energy Ball should really be restricted to other options, personally I would never even consider using them over the 3 main attacks (and a utility move is best in the 4th slot).

Change Set Details to accomodate for the fact that Timid is the primary slash. After Salac, it will outspeed all but max Spe Aero (base) and faster. When talking about Modest in Set Details, say that it should only be used on non-Salac variants.

Do what Isaid about Usage Tips and Team Options from the first set.

I also think Mandibuzz and maybe SDef Gligar can go in Checks and Counters since they can take Hoopa's attacks; Mandibuzz can simply OHKO and Gligar can outlast non-NP variants. Also in Checks and Counters, say something about how the revenge killers can only beat it out of TR.