ORAS UU Veteran Squad

I've been playing competitive Pokémon for a while now (started in 2010) but never did a RMT! I've been back in the game for 2 weeks or so now after a long break and I am a bit overwhelmed by all the new evolutions, pokemons and types. I decided to piece together a team based on 'old' gen pokes and so far they have been working really well, however I feel that I have also been a bit lucky in not encountering a particular strong opponent. Any tips or insights for common threats are welcome!

THE TEAM:







To start off this line up, my favorite lead of all time



Who's Champ? @ Assault Vest
Ability: No Guard
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Att / 84 Spe
- Dynamic Punch
- Ice Punch
- Knock off
- Bullet punch

This guy is a beauty and a nightmare to all most every team. I rarely lose a 1 on 1 battle with another lead with his incredible bulk and enormous hitting power. Everything that doesn't resist Fighting moves get hit with a very powerful STAB Dynamic Punch, which leaves them confused in the progress. If I predict a psychic switch in I use knock off, which is surprisingly powerful and knocks off any leftovers a bulky wall could have on. Ice punch is very effective to ground walls or grass types, whilst bullet punch can surprise an opponent who thinks he can finish me off with low health. Machamp can almost 2HKO every pokemon he opposes, and with the assault vest and HP investment it has a very large bulk. It can win a 1 vs 1 with a psychic pokemon who STABS him with a psychic move. There is no way I am replacing this guy, but any other suggestions for EVs or moves are welcome!





Toad 2.0 @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
Nature: Relaxed
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Att / 252 Def
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock


Swampert is one of the three pokes that rotate in my core the most. His incredible bulk lets him soak up physical attacks and his typing makes him only very weak to grass attacks. He usually comes in after Machamp is down and sets up SR almost without fail. The set is the standard one provided by the site but works very well, the only downside is that if I get a prediction wrong I can get on the back foot with damage and Swampert has no self healing move. Toxic is a move I don't use that much, only when I get in a stall war.




Mrs. Jones @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Moonlight
- Psyshock

Ah Cresselia, so underrated by a lot of people. The bulk this thing has is incredible and she is my go to poke to soak up any heavy hitters. She works really well with both Machamp and Umbreon (up next) which leaves both my walls only weak to bug attacks (Heracross, yikes). The plan with Cresselia is to switch in on any attacks that would be mayor damage to Swampert/Umbreon/Forretress and then start to set up, or just heal and switch out again. The only downside is that Cresselia does not hit hard. Even after 6 CMs its attack is 'only' 700+ and fails to OHKO quite a few pokes. The CM is very useful for special defense though, making Cresselia an incredible wall that will win any stall battles, as long as there are no statuses involved.




The Best Eevee @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
- Wish
- Protect
- Foul Play
- Heal Bell

Umbreon is the core of the core of the team. It functions as healer as well as status resolver, plus it can stall and scout for attacks. Especially the heal bell function is very important to my team, to prevent Machamp from getting burned (as well as Salamence) and to heal Cresselia from a poison status. Also it removes any paralyze which can occur. Protect is a necessity to scout for an attack and to wait for wish to recover its HP. Umbreon is the perfect switch in most of the times for Cresselia, unless its facing a bug type. They are both pretty weak against U turn. This baby has saved battles for me more than once, and is also not replaceable.




Mr OVO @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Naive
EVs: 252 Att / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake

The late game sweeper of the bunch, I never thought I'd find him in UU! I usually wait as long as possible with bringing out Salamence, because if I bring him out late in the game and get the chance to set up even just one DD I normally sweep through the leftovers of the opposing team. Fire blast is a very welcome addition to the set to remove any steel walls who think they can counter this beast, and EQ hits everything with a lot of damage without locking myself into Outrage. Sometimes I use him to break pokemon that are setting up themselves, sacrificing him in the progress. Intimidate is very useful against pokemon who boost their attacks while setting up. My team can outstall quite a few other teams, but Salamence is there to sweep teams at the later part of the game. Oh and the Naive nature is to make sure FB can hit at reasonable power.




4-3 @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
Nature: Relaxed
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball
- Spikes
- Volt Switch

Good old Forretress, also one of the pokes I never thought I'd see down in UU! I usually show this one later in the game, being a very important rapid spinner to make sure my Salamence doesn't suffer 25% damage on the switch in. Gyro Ball is to hit anything for a reasonable amount of damage as long as they don't resist it, and volt switch is to slightly damage any switch ins. I don't often lay down spikes, since people tent to set up against my Forretress. Rapid spin is its main function, and eating up attacks. It works really well in combination with Cresselia and Umbreon as they are both weak to bug attacks and it also takes on grass attacks aimed at Swampert very well. This is the poke i'm not too sure about the most, since it can wall/rapid spin but fails to deliver any real damage and people quite often set up against him.


So far my win/loss ratio is somewhere around 15/2 14/3. Now the main reason for me to put this on RMT is because I really want to get a bit further with this team and roam the highest regions of the ladder.

Known weaknesses: This team is weak to pokemon that set-up, and it requires me to do some very good predicting. Umbreon/Cresselia/Forretress can't do any real good damage and have to rely on outstalling opposing pokemon. Heracross is the #1 pain in the ass, but special attackers that have a STAB super effective move on Umbreon are also very dangerous.

Bulky water pokemon can also be a threat, since I don't have a solid electric or grass move that could take them on. Normally Machamp can punch a hole in them, or Swampert can defeat them using EQ but there is no real solution for them.

Me having an off day: This team is very dependent on correctly timed switches, so if I am having an off day predicting coming moves my team is down real quick. Also, I still am not too sure how to handle a Sableye or Fairy types. In my opinion it is really well balanced so far, but it can use some finetuning.

Anyway this is my first RMT post so please don't be too harsh on me if I did something wrong and I am looking forward to positive criticism! :)
 
Hey there, Extasy!

Jumping right in, Suicune sets up on 5 out of six mons and if it has roar it can set up on everything you have. and since your team is naturally slow and the only thing that has any offensive capability is Mence which can't do much against Cune. Especially since you're life orb. The same idea applies for Reuniclus which can also set up on just about everything, but isn't as unstoppable as cune. Also as you mentioned Heracross is a huge threat, and that also goes for Mega Beedrill which can just spam U-turn. Feraligtr is also quite the threat to your team, it can be handled much better than other mons.

One thing I would opt for switching is Cresselia to CM Roar Suicune. This will help with you against cross, gatr, Mega bee and other set up sweepers (opposing cune, reuni, curselax, cress). This also serves the same role as the current Cresselia set, just a little safer and better for the team.

Along the same line of swapping things that do the same thing, I would try swapping Umbreon to Florges. The two do almost the exact same thing. Florges in this case can save you from cross for a little bit, as well as being able to handle other fighting-types while still healing status and hp. Swapping to Florges does kinda make Doublade a tad more annoying, but you do still have pert and mence to deal with that, plus cune (which I almost think is a requirement).

I would also suggest changing current Swampert to Rocks MegaPert. Again, they do just about the same thing, it's just that this has a little more bulk and strength and all you miss out on is the lefties recovery. Lefties shouldn't be too much of a problem if you can keep Florges/Umbreon alive for wishing.

The biggest problem I can see with this team is that it doesn't seem to have synergy to it. The team is really bulky, but the bulky mons don't do anything to opposing mons, and the only thing that is immediatly offensive is Salamence and it can be easily walled. I think if you go back over the team on your own, finding what fits and works well together will be really beneficial.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Calm Mind
- Roar
- Scald

Florges (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 SpD
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Aromatherapy
- Moonblast

Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Def
Brave Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch/Roar



Hope I was a bit helpful, its been a couple months since I last rated. :]
 

nv

The Lost Age
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Solid looking team Extasy. Here goes my rate!

  • First off, I agree with Dread Plate's suggestion of running Suicune > Cresselia; however, I suggest running just RoarCune as CM Roar Suicune means you end up losing so much momentum and can give ample setup opportunities to mons you are already weak to.
Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 240 HP / 244 Def / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Roar
- Rest
- Sleep Talk


  • Secondly, I would suggest running Overcoat > Sturdy on Forretress, giving you a more reliable switch-in to Stun Spore Whimsicott and non-HP Fire Roserade w/ Sleep Powder.
  • Thirdly I agree with Dread Plate's suggestion of Rocks MegaPert > regular Swampert. This gives you a Mega and more immediate power on your team.
  • Lastly, something weird I am suggesting which may fit this team is Calm Mind Wish Florges > Umbreon. This may pressure Florges since it is "fulfilling" both roles it normally does well in; however, I feel it can work. If Wish is too much, then just go with standard Calm Mind Florges > Umbreon.
Florges @ Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Wish / Synthesis
- Aromatherapy
- Moonblast


Hope this helps!
 

Kreme

You might be right but you're not correct.
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
From what I can tell, the team has quite a few flaws but I believe they can be patched quite easily.

  • First off, we can optimize some sets. I suggest having Roar > Toxic on Swampert, as this mitigates your problem against setup sweepers. I also suggest making Swampert a Mega, as this gives you better overall defenses and offenses while also giving you a good Knock Off switch-in. Next, I recommend having offensive Defog Salamence > Dragon Dance Salamence, as your team could really appreciate a secondary Fighting- and Fire-resist, as well as a consistent Shaymin switch-in, which is hard considering Salamence has Life Orb and no Roost, thus depending constantly on Umbreon for recovery. This also helps with your matchup against Heracross.
  • Next up, I suggest having Calm Mind Florges > Cresselia and have physically defensive EVs > specially defensive EVs on Umbreon. The former allows you to maintain a win-condition and Fighting-resist but it also allows you to have a much easier against Hydreigon and Mega Blastoise, which your team lacks a solid switch-into atm, as Umbreon is now physically defensive, but should it be kept specially defensive, it struggles against Taunt variants anyways. Florges can also take care of the cleric role. The latter allows you to take on Feraligatr, Salamence, and other threatening physically offensive Pokemon.
  • With Florges being a cleric now, we can have Baton Pass > Heal Bell and Moonlight > Protect on Umbreon, so you can safely pass Wishes to the rest of your team, especially Swampert and Machamp, as well as have more immediate recovery should it be required.
  • Back to one of my previous changes, due to Salamence now bring a Defog variant, Forretress is no longer needed to clear entry hazards, therefore we can have Doublade > Forretress. This change helps against Snorlax and Reuniclus, both of which have a good chance to sweep against this team, the former because the only thing that could beat it atm was Machamp, which was easily worn down and could be potentially paralyzed when switching in. The latter because you have no way of beating it should it be the last 'mon on the opposing team, as your best way to deal with it at the moment is by phazing it out via Roar.
Swampert @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Roar


Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Roost
- Defog


Florges (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Calm Nature
- Moonblast
- Synthesis
- Calm Mind
- Heal Bell


Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Moonlight
- Baton Pass
- Wish


Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
- Iron Head
 
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Hello guys, thanks for rating! Yesterday I made the changes Dread Plate suggested and felt that the cune was not really working, also I have to get a bit used to using Florges but thats just getting used to it I guess. I do realise that I need someone else for Cresselia so I'm going to try the Cune set NV suggested and will get back later after some battles on how it felt. Also since I wanted to get rid of Foretress, I'm definitely going to try the suggestions Kreme suggested, bringing in a doublade and switch the tactics of Salamence.

Also as all of you suggested I will switch (or switched) my Swampert to a mega Swampert and slapped on roar. I still have to test the cune and if that isnt working for me I will try Umbreon in his place to keep the team more stall based. Thanks for the suggestions so far and I will get back to you with the results!
 
As a starting teambase kinda thing this isn't bad at all. The issue is that anything a rater adds at this point will make the team standard.jpg as the team has no real focus (aka omg u need florges wow etc).

Two immediate changes: Heavy slam > bullet punch on machamp. Killing faeries straight up s way better value than an off stab weak prio move.

Roar > toxic on swampert. You have nothing to really force out opposing setup sweepers. So phasing is wanted badly. Use phasing.

General tips if you feel like modding the team on your own:

Fortress + pert is awkward as hell. I consider gastro to be a pretty strict upgrade over pert when you have another potential rocker on the team. Alternately I consider forry to be dead weight on any passive team already packing rocks as it is massive defog/spin fodder, it faces huge competition in every role outside of team compression that it's just not worth it here.

As is machamp and cress are both sorta "free slots" on the team. They both have alternate movesets and a lot of pokemon in the tier with type redundancy that could potentially streamline the team.

Similarly, umbreon may prefer to be a mandibuzz at some point.
 
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Thanks for the input jjoshcja, I will try heavy slam on Machamp but i don't know if it is really beneficial to lose a priority move for a lead (helps with the focus sash pokes). Roar instead of toxic is a move I indeed replaced and it works better indeed!

I've replaced Forretress with Doublade and it if played right it can really help me out Kreme, it's only very difficult to re-heal him with his low speed and no recovery item but he's definitely a better fit than Forretress.

The only thing I feel is not working really well is Salamence. The most commonly used entry hazard is SR, and if he comes in on SR he already loses 25% of his health and he is not a heavy hitter who gets KO'd pretty quickly. I either get to do defog or roost and then I have to switch out again. Defog also nullifies the use of my own SR on Swampert, unless it is used as a late game entry hazard. Umbreon was also easier to use than Florges, since you normally knew what to expect for a move. I found out that people just try to hit Fairies with everything when they don't have a super effective move which harms switch ins a lot. But overall the team has improved and I brought the fight to two very high ranked players (think they both had 1 or 2 pokes left with quite a lot of damage)

The best addition to the team so far is RoarCune btw, thanks Kreme



EDIT:

After some research I decided not to go with heavy slam, the two commonly used Fairy types are Florges and Whimiscott and they both weight either 10 kg or 6.6, which means my 130 KG machamp would only do 40 damage, the same amount of bullet punch
 
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130/5 = 26 > 10 or 6.6 = 120 BP heavy slam

252+ Atk Machamp Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 294-348 (81.6 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Machamp Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Whimsicott: 230-272 (71.2 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Don't drink and post kids.
 
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My bad, I misread the move description. I thought the heavier the foe the more the damage is, no need to act condescending :)
 

Kreme

You might be right but you're not correct.
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Thanks for the input jjoshcja, I will try heavy slam on Machamp but i don't know if it is really beneficial to lose a priority move for a lead (helps with the focus sash pokes). Roar instead of toxic is a move I indeed replaced and it works better indeed!

I've replaced Forretress with Doublade and it if played right it can really help me out Kreme, it's only very difficult to re-heal him with his low speed and no recovery item but he's definitely a better fit than Forretress.

The only thing I feel is not working really well is Salamence. The most commonly used entry hazard is SR, and if he comes in on SR he already loses 25% of his health and he is not a heavy hitter who gets KO'd pretty quickly. I either get to do defog or roost and then I have to switch out again. Defog also nullifies the use of my own SR on Swampert, unless it is used as a late game entry hazard. Umbreon was also easier to use than Florges, since you normally knew what to expect for a move. I found out that people just try to hit Fairies with everything when they don't have a super effective move which harms switch ins a lot. But overall the team has improved and I brought the fight to two very high ranked players (think they both had 1 or 2 pokes left with quite a lot of damage)

The best addition to the team so far is RoarCune btw, thanks Kreme



EDIT:

After some research I decided not to go with heavy slam, the two commonly used Fairy types are Florges and Whimiscott and they both weight either 10 kg or 6.6, which means my 130 KG machamp would only do 40 damage, the same amount of bullet punch
Glad some of my changes worked out but uh basically when healing Doublade what you'd preferably do is try to get Umbreon to have a free opportunity to Wish + slow Baton Pass out into it against something that can't really hurt it much or on a switch out from the opponent. Regarding Salamence, it's basically supposed to Defog when you'd rather Rocks / Spikes be off your field than on the opposing team. There are just sometimes where not Defogging can be better since the Rocks you set do more to the opponent than the Rocks they've set does to you. Honestly though Salamence's best Defogging opportunities are from forcing switches but anyhow SR + Defog isn't bad on the same team as long as you know when the hazards are for better or for worse. The team isn't too badly affected by Rocks anyway with the exception of Salamence. You can also have Umbreon pass a Wish into Salamence so that it can gain recovery after being hit by Rocks damage anyhow.
 

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