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Board Game Late Summer Diplomacy - GAME OVER - UncleSam (Turkey) wins
- Thread starter Agape
- Start date
Oh, I see. I thought it fell under the same logic as when two units supported each other and one was attacking it defaulted to a hold order. Well good to know for the future then.
Update
Alternate map link.
Walrein - England
A Lon-Nwy
F Nth C A Lon-Nwy
F Nao S F Iri
F Iri S F Nao
F Eng-Pic *bounce*
A Bel-Pic *bounce*
A Bur-Mun *bounce*
A Ruh S A Bur-Mun
F Kie-Ber
A Hol-Kie
A Gal-Sil
A Ukr S A Mos-Sev *void*
F Nwg-Bar
Drawesome532 - France
A Bre-Pic *bounce*
A Mar-Gas *bounce*
A Par-Gas *bounce*
F Mao H
F Naf S F Mao H
F Spa(sc) S F Mao H
Austria
Anarchy
A Boh S A Vie H
A Vie S A Boh H
UncleSam - Turkey
A Rum-Sev
A Mos S A Rum-Sev
A Ser-Rum
F Bla S A Ser-Rum
A Bud S A Ser-Rum
A Tri-Trl
A Mun-Bur *bounce*
A Sav S A Mun-Bur
F Tun S F Naf H
F Rom S A Sav H
F Nap S F Rom H
F Ion S F Tun H
F Adr S F Ion H
Builds:
Walrein - England
Remove 1
Drawesome532 - France
No adjustments
Austria
Anarchy
Remove A Boh
UncleSam - Turkey
Build 3
It is now Winter 1909. You have 24 hours.
Alternate map link.
Walrein - England
A Lon-Nwy
F Nth C A Lon-Nwy
F Nao S F Iri
F Iri S F Nao
F Eng-Pic *bounce*
A Bel-Pic *bounce*
A Bur-Mun *bounce*
A Ruh S A Bur-Mun
F Kie-Ber
A Hol-Kie
A Gal-Sil
A Ukr S A Mos-Sev *void*
F Nwg-Bar
Drawesome532 - France
A Bre-Pic *bounce*
A Mar-Gas *bounce*
A Par-Gas *bounce*
F Mao H
F Naf S F Mao H
F Spa(sc) S F Mao H
Austria
Anarchy
A Boh S A Vie H
A Vie S A Boh H
UncleSam - Turkey
A Rum-Sev
A Mos S A Rum-Sev
A Ser-Rum
F Bla S A Ser-Rum
A Bud S A Ser-Rum
A Tri-Trl
A Mun-Bur *bounce*
A Sav S A Mun-Bur
F Tun S F Naf H
F Rom S A Sav H
F Nap S F Rom H
F Ion S F Tun H
F Adr S F Ion H
Builds:
Walrein - England
Remove 1
Drawesome532 - France
No adjustments
Austria
Anarchy
Remove A Boh
UncleSam - Turkey
Build 3
It is now Winter 1909. You have 24 hours.
Update
Alternate map link.
Walrein - England
R F Eng
Drawesome532 - France
No adjustments
Austria
Anarchy
R A Boh
UncleSam - Turkey
B A Ank
B A Con
B F Smy
It is now Spring 1910. You have 48 hours.
Alternate map link.
Walrein - England
R F Eng
Drawesome532 - France
No adjustments
Austria
Anarchy
R A Boh
UncleSam - Turkey
B A Ank
B A Con
B F Smy
It is now Spring 1910. You have 48 hours.
Update
Alternate map link.
Walrein - England
No moves received
F Bar S A Nwy H
A Nwy H
F Nth S A Bel H
F Nao S F Iri H
F Iri S F Nao H
A Sil S F Ber H
F Ber S A Kie H
A Kie S A Ruh H
A Ruh S A Kie H
A Bel S A Ruh H
A Bur S A Bel H *cut*
A Ukr H *destroyed*
Drawesome532 - France
F Mao-Bre
F Spa(sc)-Mao
F Naf S F Spa(sc)-Mao
A Bre-Pic
A Par S A Bre-Pic
A Mar-Bur *bounce, cut support*
Austria
Anarchy
A Vie H
UncleSam - Turkey
A Mun-Boh
A Trl S A Mun-Boh
A Sav-Bur *bounce, cut support*
F Rom-Lyo
F Nap-Tys
F Tun-Wes
F Ion-Tun
F Adr-Ion
A Rum-Gal
A Bud S A Rum-Gal
A Sev-Ukr
A Mos S A Sev-Ukr
A Ank-Rum
F Bla C A Ank-Rum
A Con-Bul
It is now Fall 1910. You have 48 hours.
Alternate map link.
Walrein - England
No moves received
F Bar S A Nwy H
A Nwy H
F Nth S A Bel H
F Nao S F Iri H
F Iri S F Nao H
A Sil S F Ber H
F Ber S A Kie H
A Kie S A Ruh H
A Ruh S A Kie H
A Bel S A Ruh H
A Bur S A Bel H *cut*
A Ukr H *destroyed*
Drawesome532 - France
F Mao-Bre
F Spa(sc)-Mao
F Naf S F Spa(sc)-Mao
A Bre-Pic
A Par S A Bre-Pic
A Mar-Bur *bounce, cut support*
Austria
Anarchy
A Vie H
UncleSam - Turkey
A Mun-Boh
A Trl S A Mun-Boh
A Sav-Bur *bounce, cut support*
F Rom-Lyo
F Nap-Tys
F Tun-Wes
F Ion-Tun
F Adr-Ion
A Rum-Gal
A Bud S A Rum-Gal
A Sev-Ukr
A Mos S A Sev-Ukr
A Ank-Rum
F Bla C A Ank-Rum
A Con-Bul
It is now Fall 1910. You have 48 hours.
Last edited:
Wtf, I thought of all people Walrein would be the least likely to NMR.
If Walrein does not return, and assuming Unclesam and I are the only two left, France Surrenders.
Well played everyone.
If Walrein does not return, and assuming Unclesam and I are the only two left, France Surrenders.
Well played everyone.
come unclesam, and welcome to the jam
Maybe lower, but it's always easier for Turkey to cannibalize Austria than the other way around.
Well, I guess that's it then. All in all it was a good game with many MANY twists throughout >_>
Here are all the received final orders in text form.
I won't do a full analysis of the game becauseI didn't receive enough logs I don't want to.
The perfect game is a myth. NMRs and subs are probable to happen, thus part of Diplomacy on Smogon is to prepare for those and to adjust one's strategy when those happen.
My approach to this game was to be as neutral as possible as a host, outsourcing the blame for the game's ruleset on the player's themselves. This lead to obnoxious and irrelevant votes, but served its intended purpose in the end - no player complained about the rules (at least publicly). Also, I think that the houserule about NMR:ing players supporting Hold instead of Holding increased the quality of the game.
At the start of the game, we saw Russia build F StP and Austria going for three armies. Unclesam and Kiritsu already had allied at this point, and Unclesam had planned to stab AG. Lonelyness managed the rapid initial expansion Germany usually goes for, taking advantage of Russia's northern focus and France's increased interest in the Mediterranean.
Then Walrein tried to claim Brest opportunistically, losing Drawesome's trust for the whole game, and failing that put him on the defensive until midgame. (What is this trust btw?) At this point, UncleSam and Kiritsugu's alliance could have been figured out, eliciting alliances like R+G or R+I (having F go against the now-weak E). However, apparently nobody did much diplomacy towards strategical goals like this at that point. (I don't have logs grr!)
For late earlygame analysis, I will post the W 1902, W 1903 and W 1904 maps. They speak for themselves.
Diplomatically, earlygame was active, but turned very stale in the midgame, due to Kiritsugu being UncleSam's slave and Lonelyness idling. Thus, the game turned into a tactical game, which is fine. Such a tactical mode of the game progresses relatively slowly (well, fast in this case due to Juggernaut), and is very vulnerable to NMRs/subs/etc. Which adds to the tactical element. For upcoming games where midgame is like this, I'd encourage a more open mind for new diplomatic advances. It'll make your game much more resilient against unexpected events.
Also scoring. Did you think it added positively the experience? Should we keep a highscore table? Players high on the table would for example get to choose their country later in upcoming games.
I'm fine with hosting or playing another game, but not for a week or two at least.
Thanks for playing and good game, all!
I won't do a full analysis of the game because
The perfect game is a myth. NMRs and subs are probable to happen, thus part of Diplomacy on Smogon is to prepare for those and to adjust one's strategy when those happen.
My approach to this game was to be as neutral as possible as a host, outsourcing the blame for the game's ruleset on the player's themselves. This lead to obnoxious and irrelevant votes, but served its intended purpose in the end - no player complained about the rules (at least publicly). Also, I think that the houserule about NMR:ing players supporting Hold instead of Holding increased the quality of the game.
At the start of the game, we saw Russia build F StP and Austria going for three armies. Unclesam and Kiritsu already had allied at this point, and Unclesam had planned to stab AG. Lonelyness managed the rapid initial expansion Germany usually goes for, taking advantage of Russia's northern focus and France's increased interest in the Mediterranean.
Then Walrein tried to claim Brest opportunistically, losing Drawesome's trust for the whole game, and failing that put him on the defensive until midgame. (What is this trust btw?) At this point, UncleSam and Kiritsugu's alliance could have been figured out, eliciting alliances like R+G or R+I (having F go against the now-weak E). However, apparently nobody did much diplomacy towards strategical goals like this at that point. (I don't have logs grr!)
For late earlygame analysis, I will post the W 1902, W 1903 and W 1904 maps. They speak for themselves.
In the endgame, with the center nations eliminated or in anarchy (LonelyMills' strategy was to intentionally idle and then do a surprise last move to claim a summer house.) it was enough for UncleSam to divert France just a little to claim victory.
Diplomatically, earlygame was active, but turned very stale in the midgame, due to Kiritsugu being UncleSam's slave and Lonelyness idling. Thus, the game turned into a tactical game, which is fine. Such a tactical mode of the game progresses relatively slowly (well, fast in this case due to Juggernaut), and is very vulnerable to NMRs/subs/etc. Which adds to the tactical element. For upcoming games where midgame is like this, I'd encourage a more open mind for new diplomatic advances. It'll make your game much more resilient against unexpected events.
Also scoring. Did you think it added positively the experience? Should we keep a highscore table? Players high on the table would for example get to choose their country later in upcoming games.
I'm fine with hosting or playing another game, but not for a week or two at least.
Thanks for playing and good game, all!
Last edited:
Alright guess I'll summarize this game:
Right from the start, I knew that Turkey would be a powerhouse in this format. That's why I gave it such a severe points penalty in comparison to other nations (this became important in the later planning stages) but honestly I'm not sure that even that penalty was enough. Between Italy being significantly more inclined westward, Russia being able to build A Sevastopol at the start, and Austria being able to build three armies (and thus being able to focus on Rumania rather than Greece as a second build) things were pretty much set up well for Turkey to ally with either Russia (less optimal) or Austria (optimal) and roll over the non-ally and into Italy.
Then I saw who drew what countries, and I saw that both Russia and Austria were decent possibilities for allies; the problem with Russia, however, was that I had seen Aura Guardian pull some strange maneuvers in the past, while Kiritsugu seemed much more likely to be willing to trust me (and thus I could trust him in return). All I really needed was someone who could see that keeping an alliance past the midgame would be beneficial to both of us (the 'obvious stab' that people seemed to be predicting for ages never happened simply because it would've been pure lunacy to do so, which I'll get into more later).
Anyway so the game starts, I do the obvious non-committal moves of aiming for Greece in year 1 while Austria moves in on Rumania. I convinced both Russia and Germany to focus north with their openings in order to divert as many units as possible away from us (and also to get Germany strong so that Austria would make less progress in the middlegame against him than I would against Italy; this didn't really end up panning out simply because Germany NMR'd...). It wasn't so much a stab on Russia as an all-out assault honestly, it should've been incredibly obvious because we were both forecasting that attack super hard since the start; there wasn't really anything to be done about it either way though. Anyway Aura Guardian retreated to Armenia and then kept that unit on the board rather than defending his base centers, which was annoying and slowed me down while also causing him to be eliminated much faster than he otherwise would've been, shrug. I think that this is the thing most people miss when stabbing: stabbing for one or two centers is not worth it in 99% of cases. If you're going to stab someone, it has to be fatal. This was what Walrein did wrong most of the game (even if his random stabs at France had succeeded, he wouldn't have gained much from them and France would've come after him), while you can see that when I attacked Russia and later Italy, I was certain that both would be eliminated (and thus not be able to hold the attack against me) within a few years. Also wanted to mention that France moved a turn before I did, which put me on the back foot basically forever in the South since three fleets in Lyon/WMS/NaF is a really annoying combination even if you have 4-5 fleets against them. I wasted years maneuvering fleets through Albania->Adriatic->Apulia->Naples just to keep hold against these three.
So, things went pretty much according to plan until Germany NMR'd. This meant two things: first, that Austria would make much faster progress than I would, which wasn't great, but second, that England would get big and be able to block any ideas I had long-term of getting out of the Mid-Atlantic. So obviously this was horrible, but Kiritsugu helped me re-gain some of my lost momentum in the South and we were able (though it took much longer than it should've) to gradually get through Italy and into main land France.
And then it happened. Right when we were to lay the hammer down on France, Kiritsugu vanished. Poof. Gone. All my maneuvering was worthless. Any chances of winning without grabbing at least Serbia/Moscow were completely gone, and it was highly probable that I would need the typical 18 to win (ie Turkey+Italy+Austria+Balkans+Sev+Moscow+Warsaw+either Munich, Mar, or NaF). Additionally the remove protocol really fucked me over, since basically at every turn Walrein was free to waltz into unoccupied Austrian centers while I had to contend with not simply holding units but also support-held units everywhere.
It was here that Walrein made the fatal mistake though. He sent like five units at France for literally no reason. He was getting free builds everywhere else on the map and decided that Brest was really, REALLY important in comparison.
Pretty much the first thing I did was PM France and ask if he would be willing to ally against Walrein, since at that point it looked (at least centers-wise) like England would win. Frankly even if France had told me to fuck myself I think I still would've held a centers lead by the end, but the problem was that I couldn't simply hold a centers lead, I had to hold three extra centers on Walrein and six on Drawesome in order to win. This essentially meant that with France on 6 for the foreseeable future (unless he took one of mine), I would need 16 of the remaining 29 to have any chance of winning.
The strategy, then, was obvious. Build armies, grab the Austrian centers while moving for Moscow/Warsaw, and hold the line in the South/Germany as much as possible. France started diverting his forces thankfully so I just held my fleets off but in a position close enough to where they could move if they had to, and I just waited to see what Walrein would do.
And Walrein...made some questionable moves. He let me into Moscow in order to perform a two-army attack on the Balkans, which was never in a million years going to work. He could've maneuvered a convoy chain around to St. Petersburg and held Moscow for a long, long time but instead he moved his fleets over to attack Mao. And well, once I got into Moscow, the game was basically over. There was no way to stop me from sitting on 17 forever, and even if Walrein and Drawesome had collaborated to hold a stalemate line against me, I would've won on points anyway. I strongly considered stalling the game to let Drawesome come in second, but honestly I didn't want to drag the game out for years and years when I could just put the hammer down right then and there, so I did it. If Drawesome hadn't pre-emptively attacked me earlier I probably would've stalled the game for him, though this is an admittedly flimsy excuse since I was obviously going to attack him at that point in the game anyway. A difficult situation for him all-around.
Alright so now for the players:
Italy/Stratos: An unfortunate case of being my mortal enemy on the board; there's just very little that Turkey and Italy can do except come into conflict in the middlegame (or even earlier in some cases). I convinced him to move against France and his progress was slow enough that I was able to consolidate my strong earlygame and move against him in force. He hung around for a long time though and would've hung around longer if he hadn't moved to the wrong place the last turn he was around, so props for being a better thorn in my side than Aura Guardian at least.
Russia/Aura Guardian: Well, he was pretty mad at me for attacking him, though I don't think we ever were allied honestly (we were discussing mostly general strategies and not specific moves; what sort of alliance does that?). He sort of spite killed himself just to annoy me which was, well, annoying. That being said there wasn't much he could've done and this game is incredibly horrible to play when your neighbors ally right at the start, so I can certainly understand why he would do as he did. If he had actually tried to hold on and ally with Germany/Italy against us then I think I would respect his play a lot more though.
Germany/Lonelymills: LN pretty much just did what I counseled him to do at the start, which was a good enough opening for him but also served my purposes well long-term. Simply put, he built one too many fleets (or at least one more than I would've built) and so had no real recourse against the Austrian attack that was obviously coming since Kiritsugu told him about it straight-up like a year in advance I think, lol. Obviously NMR'd and then just trolled later on, neither of which was great.
France/Drawesome532: He played well again, though the cards were stacked against him from the start. If I were him I'd have been begging Italy to leave me alone since the start of the game, especially once Turkey grabs that critical second build (and in the first year to boot). So his opening could've been more dynamic but honestly, he survived against England and Italy stabbing him while Germany sort of thought about it (and Germany/Italy were planning on carving up France as well, though I guess LN decided to just leave that be at some point). Anyway he carved up Italy with me then moved against me one turn before I could do anything, which was a strong play and really put me on the back foot for years. Right when he was finally about to capitulate to the massive Austrian/Turkish attack, he was saved by the Austrian NMR, though he never would've been in a position to be saved at all if he hadn't played really well to begin with. The endgame was just a case of him being in a terrible position and having no option but to trust me, which I almost did honestly since I think you definitely deserved second over Walrein.
England/Walrein: Kinda obvious at this point, but I wasn't a fan of your play this game. Stabbing France early was suicidal, and should've been your death early if it weren't for the fact that Russia got slaughtered (and kept his unit in Armenia rather than Norway) while Germany NMR'd (and then later Austria NMR'd as well). Be less stab-happy next game.
Austria/Kiritsugu: He did well, though obviously was overly trusting. That being said I think that he made the right plays since neither of us was ever really going to stab, though if I were him I'd have kept one or two more back units just in case it looked like Turkey would win the race to 18, because at that point it's a simple matter of grabbing 1-2 free centers to put yourself over the top while putting your ally second, rather than the other way around (ie not really a full stab, just taking the victory instead of settling for second; in other words, sort of what I had in my mind as a last resort). The NMR was really unfortunate though.
Anyhow, gg wp and I think that this variant should be played again, honestly, with the scoring tables. I think that Turkey would be less strong on a do-over since Italy is less likely to use all the new toys available to it over simply attacking Turkey like in normal diplomacy. Outside of that I thought things were well-balanced and I thought that strong play from any player would've resulted in a good position, so that's a positive sign.
I may or may not play in the next game, though. The NMRs, idling, and general mindset of diplomacy isn't super appealing to me anymore. I'll consider it though and would definitely support scoring tables.
Right from the start, I knew that Turkey would be a powerhouse in this format. That's why I gave it such a severe points penalty in comparison to other nations (this became important in the later planning stages) but honestly I'm not sure that even that penalty was enough. Between Italy being significantly more inclined westward, Russia being able to build A Sevastopol at the start, and Austria being able to build three armies (and thus being able to focus on Rumania rather than Greece as a second build) things were pretty much set up well for Turkey to ally with either Russia (less optimal) or Austria (optimal) and roll over the non-ally and into Italy.
Then I saw who drew what countries, and I saw that both Russia and Austria were decent possibilities for allies; the problem with Russia, however, was that I had seen Aura Guardian pull some strange maneuvers in the past, while Kiritsugu seemed much more likely to be willing to trust me (and thus I could trust him in return). All I really needed was someone who could see that keeping an alliance past the midgame would be beneficial to both of us (the 'obvious stab' that people seemed to be predicting for ages never happened simply because it would've been pure lunacy to do so, which I'll get into more later).
Anyway so the game starts, I do the obvious non-committal moves of aiming for Greece in year 1 while Austria moves in on Rumania. I convinced both Russia and Germany to focus north with their openings in order to divert as many units as possible away from us (and also to get Germany strong so that Austria would make less progress in the middlegame against him than I would against Italy; this didn't really end up panning out simply because Germany NMR'd...). It wasn't so much a stab on Russia as an all-out assault honestly, it should've been incredibly obvious because we were both forecasting that attack super hard since the start; there wasn't really anything to be done about it either way though. Anyway Aura Guardian retreated to Armenia and then kept that unit on the board rather than defending his base centers, which was annoying and slowed me down while also causing him to be eliminated much faster than he otherwise would've been, shrug. I think that this is the thing most people miss when stabbing: stabbing for one or two centers is not worth it in 99% of cases. If you're going to stab someone, it has to be fatal. This was what Walrein did wrong most of the game (even if his random stabs at France had succeeded, he wouldn't have gained much from them and France would've come after him), while you can see that when I attacked Russia and later Italy, I was certain that both would be eliminated (and thus not be able to hold the attack against me) within a few years. Also wanted to mention that France moved a turn before I did, which put me on the back foot basically forever in the South since three fleets in Lyon/WMS/NaF is a really annoying combination even if you have 4-5 fleets against them. I wasted years maneuvering fleets through Albania->Adriatic->Apulia->Naples just to keep hold against these three.
So, things went pretty much according to plan until Germany NMR'd. This meant two things: first, that Austria would make much faster progress than I would, which wasn't great, but second, that England would get big and be able to block any ideas I had long-term of getting out of the Mid-Atlantic. So obviously this was horrible, but Kiritsugu helped me re-gain some of my lost momentum in the South and we were able (though it took much longer than it should've) to gradually get through Italy and into main land France.
And then it happened. Right when we were to lay the hammer down on France, Kiritsugu vanished. Poof. Gone. All my maneuvering was worthless. Any chances of winning without grabbing at least Serbia/Moscow were completely gone, and it was highly probable that I would need the typical 18 to win (ie Turkey+Italy+Austria+Balkans+Sev+Moscow+Warsaw+either Munich, Mar, or NaF). Additionally the remove protocol really fucked me over, since basically at every turn Walrein was free to waltz into unoccupied Austrian centers while I had to contend with not simply holding units but also support-held units everywhere.
It was here that Walrein made the fatal mistake though. He sent like five units at France for literally no reason. He was getting free builds everywhere else on the map and decided that Brest was really, REALLY important in comparison.
Pretty much the first thing I did was PM France and ask if he would be willing to ally against Walrein, since at that point it looked (at least centers-wise) like England would win. Frankly even if France had told me to fuck myself I think I still would've held a centers lead by the end, but the problem was that I couldn't simply hold a centers lead, I had to hold three extra centers on Walrein and six on Drawesome in order to win. This essentially meant that with France on 6 for the foreseeable future (unless he took one of mine), I would need 16 of the remaining 29 to have any chance of winning.
The strategy, then, was obvious. Build armies, grab the Austrian centers while moving for Moscow/Warsaw, and hold the line in the South/Germany as much as possible. France started diverting his forces thankfully so I just held my fleets off but in a position close enough to where they could move if they had to, and I just waited to see what Walrein would do.
And Walrein...made some questionable moves. He let me into Moscow in order to perform a two-army attack on the Balkans, which was never in a million years going to work. He could've maneuvered a convoy chain around to St. Petersburg and held Moscow for a long, long time but instead he moved his fleets over to attack Mao. And well, once I got into Moscow, the game was basically over. There was no way to stop me from sitting on 17 forever, and even if Walrein and Drawesome had collaborated to hold a stalemate line against me, I would've won on points anyway. I strongly considered stalling the game to let Drawesome come in second, but honestly I didn't want to drag the game out for years and years when I could just put the hammer down right then and there, so I did it. If Drawesome hadn't pre-emptively attacked me earlier I probably would've stalled the game for him, though this is an admittedly flimsy excuse since I was obviously going to attack him at that point in the game anyway. A difficult situation for him all-around.
Alright so now for the players:
Italy/Stratos: An unfortunate case of being my mortal enemy on the board; there's just very little that Turkey and Italy can do except come into conflict in the middlegame (or even earlier in some cases). I convinced him to move against France and his progress was slow enough that I was able to consolidate my strong earlygame and move against him in force. He hung around for a long time though and would've hung around longer if he hadn't moved to the wrong place the last turn he was around, so props for being a better thorn in my side than Aura Guardian at least.
Russia/Aura Guardian: Well, he was pretty mad at me for attacking him, though I don't think we ever were allied honestly (we were discussing mostly general strategies and not specific moves; what sort of alliance does that?). He sort of spite killed himself just to annoy me which was, well, annoying. That being said there wasn't much he could've done and this game is incredibly horrible to play when your neighbors ally right at the start, so I can certainly understand why he would do as he did. If he had actually tried to hold on and ally with Germany/Italy against us then I think I would respect his play a lot more though.
Germany/Lonelymills: LN pretty much just did what I counseled him to do at the start, which was a good enough opening for him but also served my purposes well long-term. Simply put, he built one too many fleets (or at least one more than I would've built) and so had no real recourse against the Austrian attack that was obviously coming since Kiritsugu told him about it straight-up like a year in advance I think, lol. Obviously NMR'd and then just trolled later on, neither of which was great.
France/Drawesome532: He played well again, though the cards were stacked against him from the start. If I were him I'd have been begging Italy to leave me alone since the start of the game, especially once Turkey grabs that critical second build (and in the first year to boot). So his opening could've been more dynamic but honestly, he survived against England and Italy stabbing him while Germany sort of thought about it (and Germany/Italy were planning on carving up France as well, though I guess LN decided to just leave that be at some point). Anyway he carved up Italy with me then moved against me one turn before I could do anything, which was a strong play and really put me on the back foot for years. Right when he was finally about to capitulate to the massive Austrian/Turkish attack, he was saved by the Austrian NMR, though he never would've been in a position to be saved at all if he hadn't played really well to begin with. The endgame was just a case of him being in a terrible position and having no option but to trust me, which I almost did honestly since I think you definitely deserved second over Walrein.
England/Walrein: Kinda obvious at this point, but I wasn't a fan of your play this game. Stabbing France early was suicidal, and should've been your death early if it weren't for the fact that Russia got slaughtered (and kept his unit in Armenia rather than Norway) while Germany NMR'd (and then later Austria NMR'd as well). Be less stab-happy next game.
Austria/Kiritsugu: He did well, though obviously was overly trusting. That being said I think that he made the right plays since neither of us was ever really going to stab, though if I were him I'd have kept one or two more back units just in case it looked like Turkey would win the race to 18, because at that point it's a simple matter of grabbing 1-2 free centers to put yourself over the top while putting your ally second, rather than the other way around (ie not really a full stab, just taking the victory instead of settling for second; in other words, sort of what I had in my mind as a last resort). The NMR was really unfortunate though.
Anyhow, gg wp and I think that this variant should be played again, honestly, with the scoring tables. I think that Turkey would be less strong on a do-over since Italy is less likely to use all the new toys available to it over simply attacking Turkey like in normal diplomacy. Outside of that I thought things were well-balanced and I thought that strong play from any player would've resulted in a good position, so that's a positive sign.
I may or may not play in the next game, though. The NMRs, idling, and general mindset of diplomacy isn't super appealing to me anymore. I'll consider it though and would definitely support scoring tables.
AT alliances are virtually unheard of in high level games since they strongly favor (re: almost give a freewin to) Turkey. It's not a matter of philosophy but straight up how the board is designed, any Austrian attack must usually pass through the bottleneck that is the Bul-Con corridor, while Turkey can build fleets right next to the Aegean Sea and quickly power units through the Balkans by comparison. These "alliances" are literally only possible when you are dealing with a player like Kiritsugu since he is incapable of stabbing anyone. See: previous diplo game and DLE's mafia game. I am not trying to sound salty here but from the perspective of a spectator this game looked rather dull, frankly I and most others could see US's victory coming from a mile away. When your relatively weak neighbor agrees to ally with you at the start against your only real threat, you've got a practically perfect earlygame on your hands. If anything the only thing I can criticize the other players for is not really working together to decisively stop AT, in particular Walrein and Drawesome could have perhaps convinced LN and Stratos knowing how US and Kiritsugu generally play. Perhaps they tried and failed, I don't really know.
I tried to reason with Kiritsugi about how he needed to stop listening to UncleSam and be more offensive toward him and he literally would not listen.
He actually sent me a PM entitled "I'm attacking you in the Fall".
Like UncleSam said I probably built one too many fleets and when he said he was attacking my exposed backside and could not be reasoned with, thats pretty much when I decided to NMR.
He actually sent me a PM entitled "I'm attacking you in the Fall".
Like UncleSam said I probably built one too many fleets and when he said he was attacking my exposed backside and could not be reasoned with, thats pretty much when I decided to NMR.