Resource RU Viability Ranking Thread: Abomasnow and Slowking Discussion

[Senpai D.M]

I agree with Dugtrio nom tl;dr
Dugtrio has a nice speed tier making it a good revenge killer and it traps most of the top mons. Also memento supports teams really well giving momentum to team a chance to set up a set sweeper, free switch and avoid defog etc. Seriously use Dugtrio

A nom of my own

To A
Jolteon is really good right now because of its speed tier and limited but effective movesets. Jolteon can give any team a run for their money because its speed making it a pain to play for all playstyles and its moveset is unpredictable at the moment, your best bet is to scout out for moves before losing an important mon. I think Life orb is its main item but you can also run expert belt or bluff specs with magnet/zap plate. Also some teams don't mind running modest for more power making it more difficult to play in echange for some speed. What makes Jolteon good right now is its hidden power slot, ice for flygon grass types, water for m camerupt is a thing and hidden power grass for bulky water types.

I suck at posting but really wanted to nom Jolteon

 

[phantom]

--> up to A+

Fletchinder has really improved as of late. During the moth meta is when it was at its peak and that's when people started seeing its true potential. Fletchinder is very meta defining Pokemon that mandates the use of a Fly resist on offense more than anything. Having a Fly resist doesn't necessarily mean one is safe from Fletchinder, however, thanks to its access to Will-O-Wisp that allows it seriously cripple every non-electric Fly resist in the tier. Basically, while Fletchinder requires a hazard remover on every team, I feel like the insane amount of utility its able to provide in tandem with the fact that it's never useless in any given match makes a top tier threat. Also, hazard support isn't hard to provide with Flygon being such an amazing partner for it. There's a reason why Flygon + Fletchinder is the most prolific offensive core at the moment.

--> down to A or even B+

Scrafty is not a good Pokemon. I built dozens and dozens of teams since it's dropped and only once have I ever thought, "I'm weak to this/I want a sweeper that can do this, so I'll use Scrafty" (that was back when Reuniclus was around and I wanted a Reun + Scarf Tyrantrum check in one slot). Since then, the only times I've ever been able to fit Scrafty on my team is if I explicitly build with it in mind. Even outside of the fact that it's not something that can be easily put onto teams like the rest of the A+ or even A rank Pokemon, Scrafty is just an underwhelming sweeper in general. It does not take much effort at all to beat Scrafty due to its disappointing power without LO or its tendency to get picked off way too easily if it doesn't have the exact resist berry in a given match up. Simply put, Scrafty is a good mon on paper, but extremely underwhelming in practice.

 

[MrAldo]

I agree that scrafty has been rather underwhelming lately but sending it straight to B+ is extremely harsh. I do agree it has to drop though, so a drop to A is fine. While having to choose what resist berry to hold is a pain the sheer though about what berry could it be holding makes dealing with scrafty absolutely painful in practice (even though realistically it holds chople but I managed to get bopped by a coba berry one). Plus being the only setup sweeper that can setup against passive stuff so easily thanks to shed skin and lum berry + intimidate let it handle prominents threats to offense like sneasel is absolutely wonderful. Im also pretty biased for setup sweepers that can force tyrantrum out so there is that.

Teams are really well prepared for scrafty nowadays and isnt as threatening like it was before, and it is rather weak without a life orb but dropping it to B+ is a NO, A is fine by me since it has to drop tbh, rankings have to reflect the condition of a mon in todays metagame.

 

[col49]

so i also think fletch rules rn, and should definitely be a+. but playing devils advocate, i really do like scrafty, and think it should stick to at least a hard a. if you view it sheerly as something w/o some overbearing defensive applications, then sure, scrafty is not providing the same kinda of 'defensive utility in an offensive slot' that something like, idk, tangrowth does. this is a pokemon that can provide offensive counterplay to melo (i personally think dazzling gleam is the single worst use of a moveslot on this 'mon, but everyone seems enamoured w/the 'only hits bad tomb and chople scrafty' wonder, so idk, maybe not), lix, tyrantrum, glalie, doomer, etc., and frankly rk'ing isn't super easy when the pool of solid scarfmons + naturally faster / otherwise capable mons isn't super wide to begin with. it's never been so much that "ooh, you don't know what it's running, so you can't assume so-and-so checks it" b.c w/e, that's a back'n'forth thing that doesn't accomplish much, but it's moreso that, in conjunction w/basic, easy-to-establish offensive batteries, it quickly becomes a pretty back-breaking pokemon to take on. chople scrafty w/cb ant is super accessible and super dangerous b.c it establishes a dangerous, consistent threat v.most playstyles, as does something like subdd + sd virizion / cb gonner, and again, pretty dang easy to push on a team. it's something that is made better by other pokemon and makes those pokemon better in turn, and if these were some terribly outlandish pokemon, then i could see the support against it, but these are established, good 'mons. i feel repetitive saying this, and maybe i'm just using this pokemon in some really weird way that's effective entirely by coincidence, but i've found time and time again that scrafty excels in making threatening pokemon more threatening, while setting itself up as a threat itself. so, yeah, if you're saying it's a sweeper w/o any kind of significant 'niche', then i'd go ahead n say that's outright wrong, but the fact that it is a bit of a slow starter is not unwarranted.

 

[Mazar]

C+ to B

Pelipper is an extremely good mon in the current metagame. With its ability to defog, check every Fighting and Steel-type without Thunder Punch, gain momentum due to its slow U-Turns while having reliable recovery in Roost and good STABs in Scald and Air Slash / Hurricane, it works as a great bulky Water for Balanceteams. It outclasses Mantine and is better than Alomomola for Teams without the need of Wishsupport.

Overall I think Pelipper deserves more recognition in the RU metagame, because nowadays its more than a niche-defogger. In my opinion its probably the best defogger behind Flygon.

edit: Thanks Ping_Pong_Along, I meant C+ to B!

 

[Ping_Pong_Along]

B+ to A

Pelipper is an extremely good mon in the current metagame. With its ability to defog, check every Fighting and Steel-type without Thunder Punch, gain momentum due to its slow U-Turns while having reliable recovery in Roost and good STABs in Scald and Air Slash / Hurricane, it works as a great bulky Water for Balanceteams. It outclasses Mantine and is better than Alomomola for Teams without the need of Wishsupport.

Overall I think Pelipper deserves more recognition in the RU metagame, because nowadays its more than a niche-defogger. In my opinion its probably the best defogger behind Flygon.

Pelipper isn't B+. Right now, it's C+. With that said, I support a rise to B. I threw this guy onto a joke team awhile ago and was constantly surprised at just how much work it put in. I'd say that Togetic's often better than Pelipper because of all the utility it brings. I wasn't running U-turn on Pelipper because I feel like a Flying STAB is important for killing Fighting types, especially Virizion. I'm sure more balanced builds can really take advantage of U-turn though. As Mazar said, it's a great check to Steel types as well, especially Durant. I could see Stone Edge Mega Steelix being a bit of a problem, but you could Roost stall it out of those. Its weakness to rocks is definitely a detriment, but its solid physical bulk, good typing, leftovers recovery (unlike Golbat and Togetic), and Roost really help mitigate this issue. The threat of a scald burn also helps detract rock types from switching in.

 

[Molk]

Finally got around to working with Spirit to update this, :).

Changes

Fletchinder up to A+ rank
Scrafty down to A rank
Mismagius added to C rank
Samurott up to A rank
Golbat down to C+ rank
Rotom-S added to C+ rank
Muk unranked
Magmortar unranked
Linoone unranked (this mon is garbage, why was it still ranked .-., it takes an immense amount of support to even get it set up in the first place and even then it still falls short quite a bit).
Mantine down to D rank
Crustle down to D rank
Lapras unranked
Bouffalant unranked

Discussion points

Rotom up to B rank (i actually think this is a legitimate possibility after testing regular rotom a lot, and from what i've heard, multiple other council members agree that Rotom has B rank potential as well, thoughts?)
Jellicent down to B+ rank (brought up last night on irc)
Pelipper up to B rank (unsure about making this change)
Dugtrio up to A rank (unsure about moving Dugtrio)
Alomomola up to S rank (unsure about moving Alomomola)
Regular Steelix being added to C+ rank (i have zero experience with Regular Steelix at all to be honest, although from what i've heard it has a solid niche on teams that are already utilizing Mega Glalie, of course though outside of builds like that it's pretty clearly overshadowed by Mega Steelix.)

 

[Ping_Pong_Along]

I agree with Rotom for B. I started using it today on a rather shaky semi-stall team I threw together and have been shocked at the amount of work it has put in. I've often been leading with it to set up a sub while the opponent lays rocks or switches. In the few matches I had, I was able to get a burn against three different Hitmonlees when my opponents went to break my sub. The paralysis chance on Discharge also threatens any switch in that's not immune to electric attacks. This gets my full support.

As for Alomomola for S rank? I'm honestly not sure. I think the best way might be to go through point by point of what makes a mon S and see how it does.

Reserved for Pokemon who shape and define the RU metagame...

I would say that Alomomola absolutely fits this description. Previously overlooked mons such as Rotom and Samurott are being hyped now partly because they can break the Alomomola + Mega Steelix core. The fact that Clawitzer loses to Alomomola the majority of the time is also a major factor as to why it's losing popularity. I'd say it fits this.

...and are a clear-cut above the rest of the tier.

In regards to team support, Alomomola is incredible. With massive wishes, a solid defensive typing and Regenerator, it surpasses other Wish passer in most respects, though others have access to Heal Bell or Aromatherapy, which does cut into this portion of the description. Never the less, no other mon in RU is nearly as good as a mixed wall, which is especially vital on the special end since RU is rather lacking in this regard. Regenerator also makes it far less reliant on its own wishes to stay healthy, making it support the team much more reliably than Aromatisse. I'd say it fits this somewhat as well.

These Pokemon are typically very powerful offensive threats that are difficult to prepare for or are phenomenal support and defensive threats that provide significant utility or defensive potential, respectively.

Alomomola is obviously not an offensive threat, but it absolutely provides phenomenal support with significant utility. Its defensive potential is also a way to get several easy KOes with Toxic + Wish + Protect. Scald helps spreads burns (especially nice against Mega Steelix and the like). It also has some alternative options to help support the team, such as Waterfall to check Delphox and Houndoom, Knock Off provides amazing ulitity, disrupts CM Sigilyph's ability to inflict burns, and also checks Delphox, and Mirror Coat defeats special wallbreakers like Choice Specs Exploud. I'd say this fits.

Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability.

While I just went into some of the ways Alomomola is versatile, these are pretty narrow. Alomomola is more times than not, very predictable. I'm gonna say that Mirror Coat isn't enough to really push it into this category.

If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

Here we have the meat of the debate. For flaws, we have that it's extremely passive, giving setup sweepers and wallbreakers a free switch in and its susceptibility and inability to remove status. I feel like in regards to status, this is mitigated well by the gigantic Wishes it can pass to a variety of clerics. As for passiveness, few things fear neither Toxic or a potential Scald burn and it has loads of other utility, such as protect scouting and pivoting with Regenerator. Is all of this enough to mitigate this flaw? I haven't decided. I think I've pretty thoroughly gone over how it fills most other points to make it S Rank, though others may think differently. Right now I am leaning toward Alomomola for S. For me, it's a matter of whether all the amazing things it does are too bogged down by one thing that it does rather poorly. I'd love to hear other's thoughts.

 

[lighthouses]

What is the set that's being run on rotom? Never tried it myself.
Also i support Duggy for A(even A+) trapping is quite stupid in and on itself but especially in our tier where an offensive ground typing is so good

 

[esca]

For more defensive Teams the set would be physically defensive so you can counter durant reliably (unless they really use rockslide lol). On more offensive teams who need it primaily as an answer to fletchinder i would recommend a more offensive spread so you can actually do some damage with tbolt (which i prefer, as fletchinder can be annoying with roost). The spread i use for that one is 224 HP/168+ SpA/116 Spe, which lets you outspeed jolly scrafty and gets the ohko on offensive tangy, so you cant be put to sleep/knocked off by it. So far it has worked well for me.

On that note, i support Rotom-S to B and also Pelipper to B.

Pelipper, being a defogger who also checks fighting types really well has a defined niche in certain balance builds and fulfills that role well enough to make it worthy of B rank. Also threatening many sr setters with scald is a cool trait, similar to seismitoad who can switch into most rock setters and get counter-rocks (though peli cant really switch into most of them). I can definitely see it on par with the other B rank mons.

edit: ah yeah it was indeed rotom-n, oh well

 

[col49]

i believe he was referring to rotom-n boss, though the input on slash certainly is appreciated haha. i've discussed rotom-n w/a few people, and i believe that's its most consistent set is sub / wisp / hex / discharge @ 120 hp / 4 def / 132 spa / 252 spe, timid. i believe spirit made note of this set in his initial nom, but it is what (imho) capitalizes best on rotom-n's unique traits in the metagame, allowing it to soft-check steels (either baiting and pressuring lix or general soft-checking ant, since i'd argue crunch is a really poor coverage option now), threaten conventional checks to ghosts via paralysis (keeps doomer / melo honest to an extent), and generally performs as a passable status platform and spin-blocker should the situation warrant. i felt the aforementioned spread to be optimal, both allowing rotom to avoid the 2hko from jolly, unboosted ant's stab after sr + lefties, as well as not having its sub broken by 'standard' (252 hp / 96 atk+ / 76 spd / 84 spe) 'lix heavy slam post-wisp. audino also needs max to break your sub via knock off, opening up the option of pp stall. i think their potential for alt sets is definitely there, but given the ubiquity of bulky or otherwise long-lasting grounds in conjunction w/the limits set on rotom in terms of coverage, i would consider this to be the most consistent performer atm.

sidebar, and i brought this up w/other council-y types to mixed opinions so i thought i'd see what i get here, what are folks opinions on sorting subranks in terms of viability as well (a la the current bw / dpp ou threads)? what i mean by that is, rather than having pokemon within a subrank (s, a+, a, b+, etc.) put their alphabetically, we would instead have them placed in terms of how useful, potent, etc. they are in comparison to the others within that rank. the primary concern i saw brought up was mostly that of upkeep (given these tiers inevitably are a bit more malleable than the ones i use as reference, which is true), but i think it would be ultimately make this a better tool for most people looking to use this as a point of reference. this would, i figure, provide a manner of keeping the two-subrank-per-letter-grade system (which i neither agree nor disagree with, but do think it brings a lot of 'room for interpretation' in the rankings) while still giving the user the best idea possible of what functions best in this metagame. for instance, i would maybe see a+ sorted to something more of momo / gonner / ant / sigi / virizion / glalie / emboar / fletch / growth, since in my mind at least the frontrunning two stand out as way above many of the others in terms of utility, presence, and sheer splashability. it might take some time to get set up, and it in turn might force a bit more regulation on topics (spend maybe a week after the sorting to discuss a+s subrankings, another for the b's, etc.), but if we're looking exclusively to set up a more effective and accurate reference tool, then i figure this would be a pretty nice step to take. jus something to consider haha

 

[ManOfMany]

Vigoroth from unranked to C

So I'm sure many of you have heard of this beast, that was banned from FU for being broken, and is currently all the hype in PU. I decided to test it out in RU, just because I could, and it surprisingly held its own well. What does Vigoroth do? It is a bulky sweeper that boosts with Bulk Up and heals itself with Slack Off. With Eviolite and special defense investment, its 80/80/55 bulk turns from below average to incredible, allowing it to take hits from special attackers such as Sigilyph, Delphox, Tangrowth, and Scarf Meloetta and on the physical side, switch into Flygon, Torterra, and some others who are locked into the wrong STAB move, as well as beat Scarf Tyrantrum and Mega Glalie 1v1. But the more interesting aspect is how Vigoroth is able to do against defensive pokemon. With access to a very fast and bulky Substitute, it is able to EASILY set up vs Aromatisse, defensive Tangrowth, defensive Seismitoad, Amoonguss, and especially Alomomola. From there it can be essentially GG for the less experienced player, as a Vigoroth with a single bulk up under its belt is too fat to be killed by even many fighting types. Even steel types, outside of Roar Steelix and Seismic Toss Registeel, aren't too much of a problem because Vigo easily sets up on them and wins. Ghosts are another problem, but they generally aren't too common, or too good, with the exception of Jellicent.

You may ask, why not just use Malamar or Scrafty? Well, reliable recovery and far better overall bulk make Vigo a much more reliable switch-in to many attackers than Malamar. As for Scrafty, well there is the fact that they boost differently- dragon dance vs bulk up (you could use bulk up scrafty but it isn't too good), and the typing difference, as Scrafty gives a team strong weakness to flying and fairy, that is hard to cover. So they aren't really too comparable.

This is the set I run below. The Speed is adjusted to creep Exploud, Samurott (who you can stall out of hydros easily), Adamant Tyrantrum, and Modest Magneton.

Vigoroth @ Eviolite
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 240 HP / 248 SpD / 20 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Bulk Up
- Return
- Slack Off

Some passable replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-284449458
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ru-284458414

Calcs- prepare to be amazed

special attackers:
252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Psychic vs. 240 HP / 248 SpD Eviolite Vigoroth: 122-146 (33.7 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Delphox Fire Blast vs. 240 HP / 248 SpD Eviolite Vigoroth: 161-191 (44.5 - 52.9%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Flygon Draco Meteor vs. 240 HP / 248 SpD Eviolite Vigoroth: 152-179 (42.1 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Rotom-C Leaf Storm vs. 240 HP / 248 SpD Eviolite Vigoroth: 139-165 (38.5 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

physical attackers:
252 Atk Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. +1 240 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Vigoroth: 126-148 (34.9 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Double-Edge vs. +1 240 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Vigoroth: 129-153 (35.7 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Flygon Outrage vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Vigoroth: 132-156 (36.5 - 43.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Emboar Superpower vs. +1 240 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Vigoroth: 204-240 (56.5 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Virizion Close Combat vs. +1 240 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Vigoroth: 164-194 (45.4 - 53.7%) -- 39.5% chance to 2HKO

defensive pokemon:
0 SpA Aromatisse Moonblast vs. 240 HP / 248 SpD Eviolite Vigoroth: 76-91 (21 - 25.2%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball (103 BP) vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Vigoroth: 81-96 (22.4 - 26.5%) -- 17.8% chance to 4HKO
0 SpA Seismitoad Scald vs. 240 HP / 248 SpD Eviolite Vigoroth: 58-69 (16 - 19.1%) -- possible 6HKO
0 SpA Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs. 240 HP / 248 SpD Eviolite Vigoroth: 64-76 (17.7 - 21%) -- possible 5HKO

So yeah, I advise you to try this sloth out!

 

[atomicllamas]

Is claydol so bad it's not even D?!

Yes, considering it was unviable during the metagame where it actually had a shot at beating the best ghost (when doublade was RU), its absolutely trash now that the best ghost is Jellicent. Additionally, as a hazard removal its just straight up worse than Flygon / Hitmonlee / Hitmontop, no matter what approach it tries to take (defensive offensive). On top of all of this, its typing leaves a lot to be desired and is pretty much inferior to every other psychic type and even outclassed by flygon as a special ground. In summation, yes. Also this prolly coulda been asked in simple questions simple answers since it wasn't really a nom o-o.

then move it there dodo

 

[Lord Death Man]

Rotom to B - I'm really unconvinced by it's performance compared to mons who check a similar chunk of stuff, it's a very frail mon in general, only really beats scarf durant 1 v 1 and doesn't even switch in, there's too many lix spreads to rely on one "standard" spread to beat it, and it also loses to every kind of lix rest talk set. it doesn't really spinblock very reliably either, because it's incredibly frail. it has essentially no versatility either because specs sets are weak and scarf sets are also weak, it doesn't have enough attacks to justify an all out attacker, and it has a pretty small movepool minus volt switch, which could make a bulky set viablish i guess, except that makes it incredibly vulnerable to set up.

Jellicent to B+ - also no, it still checks a bunch, has a useful typing, and is a decent enough stallbreaker on it's own while also being able to reliably burn things and has taunt. it deters fighting spam in a way alomomola can't, which can be a very big deal. it has exactly what it needs to carve out a niche and still checks a whole ton.

Pelipper to B - yeah, it does what it needs to, has fantastic type synergy with literally every rocks setter except uxie, checks most durant sets which is a godsend because x-scissor and crunch are both common enough to be scared of, can u-turn which is super useful imo. it's sort of set up bait sometimes but it has the type synergy + bulk to get regular switch in chances to defog and deters rocks at least until it switches, which is a godsend a lot of the time.

Dugtrio to A - yes, it doesn't trap as much as it used to, but can completely unbalance a team and completely changes how the opponent plays from turn 1. a good matchup isn't overwhelmingly common, but is an incredible matchup in the users favor, especially with memento.

Alomomola to S - it doesn't do anything it hasn't done in a while. I'm really neutral on this but I want to know how this meta is any different from the times it was A.

I think Escavalier should drop to either B+ or B. It doesn't really check as much as it did with Venomoth, it's incredibly vulnerable to hazards, and very reliant on it's Assault Vest to check Meloetta in the first place, greatly limiting what it can do. AV has a bad matchup versus Alomomola, Fletchinder, Mega Steelix, Emboar and Durant, and can often end up complete deadweight. It can't OHKO Amoonguss, one of the key things it checks, but it can take hazards damage trying, greatly limiting it's ability to do what it wants. Band can't come in on specs Meloetta twice with SR or 1 layer of spikes, spdef SD has bad coverage for this meta and a bad matchup against Steelix, and AV has all the flaws I said before. It doesn't often offer that much over similar mons while also having it's own set of negative traits.

imo Vigoroth isn't worth ranking

EDIT: i should expand on that thought. Vigoroth doesn't offer too much more from similar mons like Braviary to justify it being ranked. both teams in the replays were about as weak to Ambipom as they were Vigoroth as well. how does it perform against teams that feature more than 1 normal resist and/or don't let their normal check immediately die? how does it do against other stallbreaker sets in the meta, both against other mons and each other?

 

[phantom]

Lord Death Man, you need to take into account that the best Rotom variants are bulkyish Hex variants with Sub, which thanks to Discharge, Will-O-Wisp, and Hex, it isn't as susceptible to being set up on as you imply. Also, keep in mind that Hex works at full power under any status condition, i.e. RestTalk Mega Steelix with Max SpD is still taking a 130 BP Ghost stab to the face, that at minimum, 3HKOs. I do recommend giving this set a try before you shoot down Rotom so quickly.

Some nominations of my own:

--> up to B

It's such a travesty that Roselia is ranked below Amoonguss when it's just more useful. Amoonguss just sits on its ass and tanks hits, whereas Roselia can actually support its team with Spikes, which is hugely underrated on defensive archetypes. Amoonguss is the better defensive Pokemon due to its better defensive stats + no reliance on one item, but I feel as if the utility Roselia provides is just as significant. It's not a do-nothing 'mon much like Amoonguss is.

--> up to B+

Vivillon is a surprisingly formidable sweeper. Access to Sleep Powder + Hurricane + Quiver Dance is just an insane combination in general. It requires hazard removal support to function at its best, but jeez its Hurricanes hit like a truck and with Compound Eyes boosting its accuracy, you can even fall back on the confusion rate in desperation that can cheese you out of a bad situation. Playing in the Venomoth meta, many really learned just how potent the combination of Quiver Dance + Sleep is, and with tier being slightly less prepared to handle that specific combination as it was before, I feel Vivillon is due for a rise. It is pretty frail and needs Defog support no doubt, but accurate Hurricane is just a disgustingly good STAB that can even wear away at its own checks overtime, not to mention its fourth moveslot gives it a bit of leeway in terms of what it wants to beat/be safer against, which is sweet too.

 

[fran17]

Shiftry from C+ to B; Shiftry is one of the most underrate mons right now. With his stabs he can easily pass through many balanced core, and the access to a strong priority like sucker punch is always aprreciated! Also the only 3 mons in the tier that resist them doesn't really enjoy switching on it: Togetic hates to lose his Eviolite, and Virizion and Emboar can lose to Knock Off+Sucker Punch if they got some prior damage (around 10-15%). It also gives the team hazard control support, thanks to his access to Defog!

Klinklang from C to C+; Klinklang is an amazing setupsweeper in this meta, mixing both good offensive stats (100 Atk, 90 Spe) and decent defensive stast (60 HP, 115 Def, 90 SpD). Shift Gear gives a +2 boost in speed which allows him to invest more on bulk while still being really fast after a single boost! Pair it with something that can wear down Steelix and Camerupt (Durant, Tyrantrum, Explosion Glalie) and you will get a really strong mon on your own, which can be good againist both offensive and defensive playstyles!

 

[DouglasFalcon]

Shiftry from C+ to B; Shiftry is one of the most underrate mons right now. With his stabs he can easily pass through many balanced core, and the access to a strong priority like sucker punch is always aprreciated! Also the only 3 mons in the tier that resist them doesn't really enjoy switching on it: Togetic hates to lose his Eviolite, and Virizion and Emboar can lose to Knock Off+Sucker Punch if they got some prior damage (around 10-15%). It also gives the team hazard control support, thanks to his access to Defog!

Klinklang from C to C+; Klinklang is an amazing setupsweeper in this meta, mixing both good offensive stats (100 Atk, 90 Spe) and decent defensive stast (60 HP, 115 Def, 90 SpD). Shift Gear gives a +2 boost in speed which allows him to invest more on bulk while still being really fast after a single boost! Pair it with something that can wear down Steelix and Camerupt (Durant, Tyrantrum, Explosion Glalie) and you will get a really strong mon on your own, which can be good againist both offensive and defensive playstyles!

Kinda not support both rises tbh

Shiftry is not as fast as it would like to be, and therefore is unable to pressure faster foes and find space to Defog without dying. It's a bit difficult to switch into, but keeping offensive pressure is enough to prevent it from being dangerous most of the times. Being so reliant on its priority in order to be dangerous is also bad, since you can play around that without taking damage.
It's also very fragile and sports a lot of very common weaknesses, two things that often nullify the interesting resistances it brings to the table.
I don't think it's C+ worthy though, but B+ is too high imo, so I would actually suggest B.

Klingklang is just.. eh. 90 base SpA is pointless when your special movepool is almost as barren as your physical one; and it also lacks a solid ability, despite Clear Body being somehow useful at times. Steel isn't a great offensive typing either, and its coverage leave it walled by any relevant steel type in the tier. It hold the nice of being a bulky boosting steel type; but Registeel can do that too while being a bit more versatile thank to its support set, giving it a bit of unpredictability.
It should stay C imo

 

[MrAldo]

Im on the fence regarding shiftry, the nomination is to rise to B not B+ though.

Gonna comment on klinklang since Ive been using quite a bit lately.

Klinklang can definitely rise to C+ and I support it. Klinklang is a really interesting pokemon, it has a notable niche over opposing steel types thanks to shift gear, signature move, and also klinklang has another advantage virtue of its typing. Mono steel typing is actually quite valuable since compared to other offensive steel types (escavalier and durant for example) it provides a flying resist and doesnt fear to switch into tyrantrum STABs so badly. Guess we can put bronzong in this but bronzong doesnt have shift gear and can fuck up offense if they make a wrong move. Mega steelix and mons like seismitoad being absolutely everywhere sucks for this but they arent the most difficult mons to wear down realistically. Something that can use choice locked tyrantrum as setup bait can definitely afford to rise a rank, C+ is fine for it.

Why would you mention klinklang special attack when it never uses a special attack to begin with?

 

[-Tsunami-]

SLOWKING IS BACK
REJOICE
AUTOMATIC S-RANK DGAF ITS SLOWKING. THE BEST.

 

[Mistress Remilia]

SLOWKING IS BACK
REJOICE
AUTOMATIC S-RANK DGAF ITS SLOWKING. THE BEST.

& Abomasnow

 

[phantom]

Medicham also left RU, which I'm very sad about... ;_;

Okay, the shit posting is done.

I added Aboma and it's mega along with Slowking to new pkmn rank and removed Medicham. Wait a week or a least 3 days before discussing their placement. Any post not adhering to this rule will be deleted.

 

[Cheryl.]

Hello everybody, I would like to talk about a pokemon that I think deserves a rise in the rankings, and that pokemon is Eelektross. Eelektross got better with the drops, as it defeats Slowking with ease and has Flamethrower to defeat Mega Abomasnow. Eelektross' main advantage over it's Electric-type bretheren is in it's coverage, as it has many, many options to choose from, like Giga Drain, Flamethrower, and even utility in Knock Off and Volt Switch. It also has a good amount of bulk, making it a bulky pivot that can cause momentum. Levitate also helps it potentially wall Ground types, which is a big boon for it. Also, Jolteon got a bit worse over the drops, as it gets walled to no by Mega Aboma if it doesn't have HP Fire, and Jolteon never has HP Fire to begin with, although Slowking helps it's case a bit. Eelektross' big problem, though, is his mediocre speed stat, as he is outsped by many things. The thing is, RU is sort of a slow tier anyways, as most of the top threats are bulky stuff like Mega steelix and Tangrowth, that Eelektross can outspeed and kill with his coverage. Eelektross also has a slight case of 4MSS, as it needs Tbolt, and it wants stuff like Flamethrower and Giga Drain, and Knock Off or volt switch or HP Ice for Flygon. But usually, with team support, Eelektross can take care of it's walls and counters. Overall, while Eelektross needs some help in order to succeed, it is a pretty good pokemon, especially with the new drops, and imo, deserves a rise to B+.

 

[phantom]

Okay, I think a good amount of time has passed so I'd like to start discussion on our new drops:

First we have Mega Abomasnow:

Mega Abomasnow's two viable sets are the Swords Dance set (SD / Wood Hammer | Seed Bomb / Earthquake / Ice Shard) and the mixed set (Blizzard / Giga Drain | Wood Hammer / Focus Blast | Earthquake / Ice Shard).

Next we have Slowking:

Slowking is capable of running quite a few good sets with a lot of flexibility between them, actually including Bulky CM (which I expect to be the standard), AV, Trick Room, Nasty Plot, and possibly Specs.

I'd also like to see some discussion on where to place vanilla Abomasnow for those who've used it, as it is pretty under explored despite its mega being better most of the time:

It can run the same sets as its mega, but obviously lacks the power and bulk, but speaking from experience, being able to run it alongside another mega such as Audino can create some pretty fun strategies. The extra Speed + ability to hold an item may allow it to pull off a scarf set with STAB Blizzard or do some other interesting stuff with its item slot.


You're also free to bring up the viability of other Pokemon whose viability was impacted from one of the two drops (or both). I specifically have Jellicent, Escavalier, and Delphox in mind when mentioning this, but there's many others too.

 

[atomicllamas]

I'd also like to see some discussion on where to place vanilla Abomasnow for those who've used it, as it is pretty under explored despite its mega being better most of the time:

It can run the same sets as its mega, but obviously lacks the power and bulk, but speaking from experience, being able to run it alongside another mega such as Audino can create some pretty fun strategies. The extra Speed + ability to hold an item may allow it to pull off a scarf set with STAB Blizzard or do some other interesting stuff with its item slot.


You're also free to bring up the viability of other Pokemon whose viability was impacted from one of the two drops (or both). I specifically have Jellicent, Escavalier, and Delphox in mind when mentioning this, but there's many others too.

Just wanted to point out to everyone that Regular Life Orb Abomasnow is actually stronger on the side which runs a positive nature (ie Modest Blizzard does more from LO aboma than M Aboma, but Adamant Wood Hammer does more from LO than from Mega), the other side is slightly weaker. The gap is extremely narrow on both sides, however, so essentially LO Abomasnow is faster and equally as strong at the cost of a lot of bulk (both loses actual bulk + has the drain from LO if you go that route), and also the utility of discouraging sound based moves from the get go. In previous metas where Abomasnow was available, the base forme was ranked in D rank, while the mega was fluctuating between S and A+ rank. It is notable that at that point there was only 2 mega pokemon in RU, and the other one, Mega Banette, was far worse than Mega Abomasnow, and hard to fit onto a team, so I have a feeling that regular Abomasnow could end up ranked much higher. For example, it has particularly good with Mega Camerupt or Mega Steelix if you wish to put it onto a balanced team. So yeah, people should really try out regular Aboma to see what sets are worth running.

 

[aurora]

I'm inclined to nominate Durant for S rank as it only got better with the new drops; Jellicent, which gives non-Thunder Fang Durant depression, will now be seen less, and both drops are handled quite well by it in the form of its super-effective STAB X-Scissor (although Slowking that carry Fire Blast make Durant switch-ins cry tears of despair). Special mention goes to Hone Claws Durant, which can switch into Scald and not care about it thanks to Lum Berry. The arrival of Slowking also helps it somewhat, removing Fire-types such as Delphox and Mega Camerupt. Everything else, such as its good typing, excellent Speed tier, and versatility, still applies.