Serious US Election Thread (read post #2014)

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UncleSam

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Actually hollywood the problem is that as the number of people employers can hire decreases the job positions available to a teenager more and more come into competition with the general pool of applicants, particularly when minimum wage is high enough that a 'seasoned 30-year-old' wouldn't necessarily scoff at it. In other words, there's little competition now from 30-year-olds for the average high schooler looking for a job, but if the minimum wage were raised there would be.

That being said you're absolutely right that the minimum wage should not be some arbitrary set value but should scale with cost of living. As in, if the cost of living in some area is X than all employers in that area should be required to pay some function of X as a minimum wage. There's no reason it should be some random flat rate across the entire country that only changes when Congress feels like it.

As for billymills' point, I was suggesting that Congress delegate issues on which it has no expertise to third parties which can properly handle them. Of course the selection of those parties would be handled by Congress and Congress should have the power to change and oversee the handling of economic policy, but things like budgets should never be drafted by a Congressman, for example. Think along the lines of how a CEO at a company can't necessarily do all (or in some cases, any X_X) of the functions necessary for the company to run, and so delegates the tasks which he/she cannot perform adequately to subordinates who can.
 
I asked my parents about how the ACA has effected their business, and the conclusion was that my parents aren't benefitting from Obamacare at all. My dad is a neurologist and my mother is the employer of this company, and my parents has to deal with the problems with Obamacare all the time. They have to pay a flat rate for health insurance their employees don't need, and the amount they have to pay increases depending on how many workers are in their clinic, and with the minimum wage requirement, they simply cannot afford to have full time workers so they have to end up cutting on workers. It's not just that they lose out on profits, they cannot function with more workers thanks to ACA and the minimum wage requirement with it. My parents would not only benefit from more workers, but have the moral capacity to love to do so, but they just can't.
When a commercial whose purpose was to inform that the average person working for Walmart earned minimum wage, while those at the very top earned billions, it occurred to me that the reason for this appeal to minimum wage was because billionaire corporations like McDonald's and Walmart are raking in billions, while the workforce is mostly only getting a very small percentage of the profits.

So it seems fair that the more a company earns, the more that they should pay in minimum wage. Since your mother is the employer of a smaller company, I think a compromise where companies like hers which are smaller, and don't bring in the billions in profits like larger corporation should be allowed to be exempt from a larger minimum wage. After all, the main point of a minimum wage is to force corporations to pay a reasonable portion of their profits to their workers that is large enough to live on, rather than just pointlessly taking more for themselves.
 
When a commercial whose purpose was to inform that the average person working for Walmart earned minimum wage, while those at the very top earned billions, it occurred to me that the reason for this appeal to minimum wage was because billionaire corporations like McDonald's and Walmart are raking in billions, while the workforce is mostly only getting a very small percentage of the profits.

So it seems fair that the more a company earns, the more that they should pay in minimum wage. Since your mother is the employer of a smaller company, I think a compromise where companies like hers which are smaller, and don't bring in the billions in profits like larger corporation should be allowed to be exempt from a larger minimum wage. After all, the main point of a minimum wage is to force corporations to pay a reasonable portion of their profits to their workers that is large enough to live on, rather than just pointlessly taking more for themselves.
It seems far more reasonable to just promote employees to negotiate, don't you think? I mean, pay negotiation is one of those things you're supposed to do early on in the job (not advised during interviews, especially if you're getting hired for your first job since at that point you're some inexperienced scrub) anyways. You gotta negotiate with your worker how much you get paid if you want an increase. If you feel like you've worked incredibly hard and haven't gotten the pay you deserve, holla your employer up and negotiate your pay. If the employer is super greedy with his fat stashes and refuses to give you a raise, quit that and make sure he knows he just lost a hard earned customer as you search for a job that pays you better. He loses a good employer and, if more good employers who are getting not paid as much as they should do, their entire business.

Does this all require personal effort? Yes. But it's way better than having the government trying to force x companies to pay this much amount and trying to act like they can regulate the economy well.
 
It seems far more reasonable to just promote employees to negotiate, don't you think? I mean, pay negotiation is one of those things you're supposed to do early on in the job (not advised during interviews, especially if you're getting hired for your first job since at that point you're some inexperienced scrub) anyways. You gotta negotiate with your worker how much you get paid if you want an increase. If you feel like you've worked incredibly hard and haven't gotten the pay you deserve, holla your employer up and negotiate your pay. If the employer is super greedy with his fat stashes and refuses to give you a raise, quit that and make sure he knows he just lost a hard earned customer as you search for a job that pays you better. He loses a good employer and, if more good employers who are getting not paid as much as they should do, their entire business.

Does this all require personal effort? Yes. But it's way better than having the government trying to force x companies to pay this much amount and trying to act like they can regulate the economy well.
In the real world, the employee has no bargaining power. It's a right-wing/libertarian myth. And in the real world, most employees can't just quit their job. There's bills that need paid, and if they aren't, they are in an even worse position than having a crappy job. Even suppose you have some savings, you still have to get a job before the savings runs out, and replenish said savings afterwards. Many people in crappy, low-paying jobs that aren't unionized that would benefit from an increase in minimum wage usually can't afford to save much, if anything, with their income.

Our state governments have a trash record supporting unions. So many Republican states have used Big Government(tm) to legislate unions away. Here's a list of "right-to-work" states. Similarly, many corporations inhibit unionizing; Wal-Mart will fire employees immediately for organizing a union, and if somehow they do unionize, they'll close the entire store. How do you suppose workers can fight for a fair wage without bargaining power, either through unions or representation in government? The answer is: they can't.
 
In the real world, the employee has no bargaining power. It's a right-wing/libertarian myth. And in the real world, most employees can't just quit their job. There's bills that need paid, and if they aren't, they are in an even worse position than having a crappy job. Even suppose you have some savings, you still have to get a job before the savings runs out, and replenish said savings afterwards. Many people in crappy, low-paying jobs that aren't unionized that would benefit from an increase in minimum wage usually can't afford to save much, if anything, with their income.

Our state governments have a trash record supporting unions. So many Republican states have used Big Government(tm) to legislate unions away. Here's a list of "right-to-work" states. Similarly, many corporations inhibit unionizing; Wal-Mart will fire employees immediately for organizing a union, and if somehow they do unionize, they'll close the entire store. How do you suppose workers can fight for a fair wage without bargaining power, either through unions or representation in government? The answer is: they can't.
Yes, but why would an employer sacrifice a hard worker and hurt his business because he wants to be a dick and not pay you more? Business is a mutual thing man, you being in the job affects the employer and the business of that individual too. I'm not denying this stuff requires balls and confidence, but you're making it sound like as if the corporations just get tons of benefits while you lose, smart business owners won't just fire if it means they have to sacrifice more production than the less money they have to give by firing a worker. Dumb business owners will pay the price financially if they make dumb decisions.

I'm going to take what you said about banning unions at face value, and assume that there really is no way that they can riot in a group (wouldn't just having each person individually ask better wages for their hard work be effective enough though? I mean, each individual benefits from getting higher wages if they truly worked hard.) since I haven't really done research about it, but I'm against big government interfering with these companies, it's exactly legislation like that that hurts businesses and people, but what makes you think government getting more involved in the economy will help? We need to get laws like that out of here.
 
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Yes, but why would an employer sacrifice a hard worker and hurt his business because he wants to be a dick and not pay you more? Business is a mutual thing man, you being in the job affects the employer and the business of that individual too. I'm not denying this stuff requires balls and confidence, but you're making it sound like as if the corporations just get tons of benefits while you lose, smart business owners won't just fire if it means they have to sacrifice more production than the less money they have to give by firing a worker. Dumb business owners will pay the price financially if they make dumb decisions.

I'm going to take what you said about banning unions at face value, and assume that there really is no way that they can riot in a group (wouldn't just having each person individually ask better wages for their hard work be effective enough though? I mean, each individual benefits from getting higher wages if they truly worked hard.) since I haven't really done research about it, but I'm against big government interfering with these companies, it's exactly legislation like that that hurts businesses and people, but what makes you think government getting more involved in the economy will help? We need to get laws like that out of here.
Most of the work force is expendable right this moment. Your employer won't fret losing you, because there's plenty more who want your job and are capable, in some manner, of doing it--and if they do it cheaper, well, that's better! This goes for nearly every job opening, skilled or unskilled; there are plenty who qualify. It's an employer's market, not an employee's. Libertarian ideals just don't work; such policies are impractical, much like communist policies are. However, communism actually has potential if an extremely intelligent AI is realized in a post-scarcity society and we yield our economic and political autonomy to such an intelligence (could be 100 years, could be 200, could be never, who knows). Yet Libertarian policies will never work (or, better put, be a better alternative compared to all others); it's mostly fantasy and an extreme serving of idealism that simply isn't viable in reality.

This is a decent FAQ explaining why American Libertarianism is simply bologna. For the employee/employer power imbalance, look at question 2.5 and 2.5.1.
 
Most of the work force is expendable right this moment. Your employer won't fret losing you, because there's plenty more who want your job and are capable, in some manner, of doing it--and if they do it cheaper, well, that's better! This goes for nearly every job opening, skilled or unskilled; there are plenty who qualify. It's an employer's market, not an employee's. Libertarian ideals just don't work; such policies are impractical, much like communist policies are. However, communism actually has potential if an extremely intelligent AI is realized in a post-scarcity society and we yield our economic and political autonomy to such an intelligence (could be 100 years, could be 200, could be never, who knows). Yet Libertarian policies will never work (or, better put, be a better alternative compared to all others); it's mostly fantasy and an extreme serving of idealism that simply isn't viable in reality.

This is a decent FAQ explaining why American Libertarianism is simply bologna. For the employee/employer power imbalance, look at question 2.5 and 2.5.1.
This is true at McDonalds maybe, but McDonalds doesn't involve much work and thus gets low pay. At higher businesses, this simply won't work because the skill required to be productive is a big deal. You can't just fire a worker who works for a major company and expect to get a replacement, and while you can for McDonalds, it's because the skill required is so low. The lower the skill required to do a job is, the easier you are to replace; as a lesson in general, that's why it's important to develop a niche. If you can do something well that nobody else can, you will be difficult to replace in the right field.

As for workplace regulations on health, well, I see no reason for legislation for that too. Jobs that have safe regulation like Microsoft have a demand partially because they are safe. There is no fear of dying from unsafe work places in a place like Microsoft, HP, and so forth, so with that, it attracts more workers. It hurts companies by making places unsafe, as the want for working for such place decreases. That is why jobs like welding and mining pay well, because it has a low demand due to the amount of risk it has. Underwater welders earn a mean (average) hourly wage of $26.32, while the mean annual wage is approximately $54,750. Additionally, the top percentile (90%) can make approximately $93,910 or more. (Bureau of Labor Statistics)
 
This is true at McDonalds maybe, but McDonalds doesn't involve much work and thus gets low pay. At higher businesses, this simply won't work because the skill required to be productive is a big deal. You can't just fire a worker who works for a major company and expect to get a replacement, and while you can for McDonalds, it's because the skill required is so low. The lower the skill required to do a job is, the easier you are to replace; as a lesson in general, that's why it's important to develop a niche. If you can do something well that nobody else can, you will be difficult to replace in the right field.

As for workplace regulations on health, well, I see no reason for legislation for that too. Jobs that have safe regulation like Microsoft have a demand partially because they are safe. There is no fear of dying from unsafe work places in a place like Microsoft, HP, and so forth, so with that, it attracts more workers. It hurts companies by making places unsafe, as the want for working for such place decreases. That is why jobs like welding and mining pay well, because it has a low demand due to the amount of risk it has. Underwater welders earn a mean (average) hourly wage of $26.32, while the mean annual wage is approximately $54,750. Additionally, the top percentile (90%) can make approximately $93,910 or more. (Bureau of Labor Statistics)
I see there is no evidence I can provide you that would change your view. You grossly overestimate how much bargaining power an employee has, you fail to realize the impracticality of quitting a job when you actually have responsibilities, you seem to think only minimum wage jobs are expendable (ask the 8% of Twitter employees laid off in October how irreplaceable their jobs were), and you seem to not understand tragedy of the commons (which is the simple reality that makes Liberterian policy impractical). Libertarianism require criteria that are absent from human interactions, and therefore implementing any policies as such lead to disaster.
 
I see there is no evidence I can provide you that would change your view. You grossly overestimate how much bargaining power an employee has, you fail to realize the impracticality of quitting a job when you actually have responsibilities, you seem to think only minimum wage jobs are expendable (ask the 8% of Twitter employees laid off in October how irreplaceable their jobs were), and you seem to not understand tragedy of the commons (which is the simple reality that makes Liberterian policy impractical). Libertarianism require criteria that are absent from human interactions, and therefore implementing any policies as such lead to disaster.
I don't know much about this Twitter incident, but it could very well be because of minimum wage/ACA, wouldn't surprise me given the reason why my parents had to lay off some workers. This is unsubstantiated, however, but I can't really get anything off of that because that statement was vague. Just note that companies will value profit>morals, and no matter what your political beliefs are, no legislation can ever change that.

Anyways, I guess we'll end things here. Thanks for keeping things calm.
 
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I don't know much about this Twitter incident, but it could very well be because of minimum wage/ACA, wouldn't surprise me given the reason why my parents had to lay off some workers. This is unsubstantiated, however, but I can't really get anything off of that because that statement was vague. Just note that companies will value profit>morals, and no matter what your political beliefs are, no legislation can ever change that.

Anyways, I guess we'll end things here. Thanks for keeping things calm.
I don't want to turn this into another argument, but in what world does minimum wage affect Twitter employees, who make far above that? I'm pretty sure it had nothing to do with minimum wage.
 
I see there is no evidence I can provide you that would change your view. You grossly overestimate how much bargaining power an employee has, you fail to realize the impracticality of quitting a job when you actually have responsibilities, you seem to think only minimum wage jobs are expendable (ask the 8% of Twitter employees laid off in October how irreplaceable their jobs were), and you seem to not understand tragedy of the commons (which is the simple reality that makes Liberterian policy impractical). Libertarianism require criteria that are absent from human interactions, and therefore implementing any policies as such lead to disaster.
As a person in the working world I can say with certainty that anyone worth hiring is worth keeping. There are job markets where employees are more expendable than others (overpopulated fields and minimum wage level jobs), but for the most part the time and money it takes to search for new employees, pay and use the time of current employees to interview candidates, and train new employees, is actually worse for the company than just compromising with a current employee, especially if the new employee ends up doing the exact same thing as a past employee and forcing the process to reset.

There are positives and negatives to both sides of the coin and it's often easy to trust the people you agree with more when you only have a partial opinion on the matter (I was all republican everything until I took a step back with all the gay rights stuff going on really changes the perspective). In the same way, there are positives and negatives to unionizing and regulating. Unions cost money to run which will generally come out salaries of the employees that belong to said union (unless one or two of the union members shoulder the burden of labor and all the meetings on their own) while it can help for more fair treatment in the workplace.

(sorry if I'm a little off on what the argument actually is).
 
You both need empirical evidence for your claims to be given any credence
I'm aware I didn't provide as much evidence as I would on, say, a dissertation. Much of the information I referenced might as well be considered common knowledge, or so I figured, but I suppose it's not.

Bargaining power is a simple game of numbers, and the employer always comes out ahead. I provided a more thorough explanation of how an employer has grossly more bargaining power than any employee (see 2.5 and 2.5.1), but for simplicity's sake I'll post a brief, relevant excerpt here:

Let's focus on the last issue; a boss berating an employee, versus an employee berating a boss. Maybe the boss has one hundred employees. Each of these employees only has one job. If the boss decides she dislikes an employee, she can drive her to quit and still be 99% as productive while she looks for a replacement; once the replacement is found, the company will go on exactly as smoothly as before.

But if the employee's actions drive the boss to fire her, then she must be completely unemployed until such time as she finds a new job, suffering a long period of 0% productivity. Her new job may require a completely different life routine, including working different hours, learning different skills, or moving to an entirely new city. And because people often get promoted based on seniority, she probably won't be as well paid or have as many opportunities as she did at her old company. And of course, there's always the chance she won't find another job at all, or will only find one in a much less tolerable field like fast food.
Furthermore, quitting your job without a safety net isn't wise. If you have $10000 in emergency savings, make $2000 a month/spend $1700 a month, you have at most 6 months to find another job. If your job was in some industry that has become over-saturated in your area, or is no longer found in your area, you'll have to settle for less. In the case of low-income workers (those at, or even some portion above, current minimum wage), most often there will be no emergency savings, and you're pretty much screwed. For the record, someone on Federal minimum wage ($7.25 currently) working 30 hours a week will make about $870 a month prior to withholdings for various taxes. If they save 5.5% (which is the average recently across the population; not sure how many minimum wage workers save, but I couldn't find "empirical evidence" for this demographic), they will put away just shy of $48 a month. Over a year, that's $576. Assuming the rest of their income is spent on basic necessities (food, utilities, housing, transportation to their job), they wouldn't be able to have one month's emergency fund after working a whole year.

In such situations, you are given two actions, both of which are terrible for you, but at worst, inconvenience an employer by some minute amount. Either put up with a crappy job (due to pay, safety, coworkers, a combination of such, whatever) or dance on the edge of destitution. Choosing between two terrible outcomes isn't much of a choice, is it?

Unions level the field by enabling increased bargaining power. An employer can't fire one employee without proper protocol; it's a breach of contract. The union will take legal action, and also may require employees to protest, which essentially reduces an employer's productivity to 0. However, unions have been neutered through legislation, most notably right-to-work, which is most commonly found in Republican-leaning states.

(Regarding unions being bad: I'd gladly pay some portion of my earnings for overall increased income and benefits, as well as job security. Workers in a union tend to make higher income and receive better benefits than non-union workers. The union fees and dues don't have a negative return because the increase in pay/benefits is greater than the dues. Here's information by the Bureau of Labor Statistics and an analysis of similar data from the WSJ. Furthermore, the idea that union workers are lazy/don't ever get fired tends to be the fault of the employer; a union requires a standard procedure of performance evaluations, documentation, and so on [of course it depends on the union/state], and an employer that doesn't do its part won't have documentation for why the employee's contract should be terminated. You get the opposite with at-will employment; the employer could simply fire you for any reason at all, and since they don't have to supply the reason, it could even be illegal [discrimination] yet without reasonable evidence [not he-said-she-said, obviously], there's no way to prove it).

Furthermore, most jobs are indeed expendable, and this will become more prominent if current trade agreements move forward. There's plenty of examples, such as the Twitter one I outlined. For example, data analysts at Disney parks were laid off recently, replaced with contractors on temporary visas, who will end up doing the same job; such an action benefits Disney in some way (less employee compensation and therefore increased profits, increased bargaining power on Disney's end, etc). Then you have SunTrust, who laid off 100 IT workers that are obligated to train their replacements and be on-call for two years without pay (obviously such a requirement on a severance package is illegal, and that's not so much a point regarding how expendable any professional is, as it is gross corporate injustice, but it's nice to note as well).

And low-income jobs are worse off. Most often these jobs don't require as much education or experience as data analysts or IT workers or engineers, so there are plenty more people capable of these jobs, including those who currently work in skilled labor. As a result, there's a lot more competition, resulting in a race to the bottom. I assume many consider unskilled labor a terrible decision on the employee's part for whatever reason, so despite such jobs being a large portion of the market, many don't consider them in their thoughts on labor. It seems in some right-wing world that an employee should be able to learn a whole new set of skills on the drop of a hat, and any other option is laziness/shouldn't be considered. Doesn't help that automation will become cheaper over time (as it has since the first assembly line), making the benefit of human employees a non-factor, especially if the automation helps the consumer more than a human could.

Similarly, the transportation industry will go through some revolution in as soon as 10 years as self-driving trucks not only become commercially viable, but the norm. Unlike other automated technology, a self-driving vehicle isn't grossly more expensive than hiring a human to drive, perhaps only a flat $10,000 on the purchase of a vehicle, and savings will show within months as the labor cost is eliminated. For the record, commercially viable self-driving vehicles would make millions of jobs redundant in a tiny, tiny period. Simply look at how many are employed in transportation jobs yourself.

Furthermore, the simple situation known as tragedy of the commons inherently invalidates most applications of Libertarian thinking. I'm sure most, if not all, people know the details about this, but here's a helpful article explaining the situation. In brief, the best for an individual often is not the best for a group. In such a case, you will either have to force everyone, by some means, to work together and do their part (which is anti-Libertarian) or allow personal freedom and hope for the best (which won't happen, because it's again anti-Libertarian [why should I do my part? if the others using this resource do their part, it will be better for me to not do mine!]). Therefore, a truly Libertarian application in a shared resource where individual and group ideals are different tends to destroy the resource for everyone.

As a person in the working world I can say with certainty that anyone worth hiring is worth keeping. There are job markets where employees are more expendable than others (overpopulated fields and minimum wage level jobs), but for the most part the time and money it takes to search for new employees, pay and use the time of current employees to interview candidates, and train new employees, is actually worse for the company than just compromising with a current employee, especially if the new employee ends up doing the exact same thing as a past employee and forcing the process to reset.

There are positives and negatives to both sides of the coin and it's often easy to trust the people you agree with more when you only have a partial opinion on the matter (I was all republican everything until I took a step back with all the gay rights stuff going on really changes the perspective). In the same way, there are positives and negatives to unionizing and regulating. Unions cost money to run which will generally come out salaries of the employees that belong to said union (unless one or two of the union members shoulder the burden of labor and all the meetings on their own) while it can help for more fair treatment in the workplace.

(sorry if I'm a little off on what the argument actually is).
The idea of a noble employer isn't realistic. I explain prior (mostly in the bits about expendable employees and unions), but I'd like to note something else.

Your reasoning reminds me of the oft-repeated notion that an employee "costs" an employer more than the employee receives in wages. "Cost" is the funny word to use in this case. If an employee "costs" an employer, that means the employee is not providing enough in return. Compensates is a better word, because the employee does help the company in such a way that hiring them is a reasonable option. After all, corporations are not charities (and this is evident by the immoral actions committed by just about every major, multinational corporation in the world). This is a elementary example of connotation. "Costs" has a more negative meaning than "compensates," making it seem like the employer is going out of its way to benefit the employee, which is most likely never the case, and especially is never a good decision when profit is the goal.

I'm aware you didn't say this, I simply was reminded of it.

...

In brief, Republican/Libertarian policies in fact hurt the majority of employees. Of the candidates running on the Republican ticket, their policies would be disastrous. Of those even remotely viable running on the Democratic ticket, Clinton is much the same. Sanders has his problems, even with economic policy, but he doesn't demonize or otherwise want to negatively affect "the common American" worker.
 
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In brief, Republican/Libertarian policies in fact hurt the majority of employees. Of the candidates running on the Republican ticket, their policies would be disastrous. Of those even remotely viable running on the Democratic ticket, Clinton is much the same. Sanders has his problems, even with economic policy, but he doesn't demonize or otherwise want to negatively affect "the common American" worker.
Not going to touch on the whole post, but I do want to agree that the average working man is generally better off in the short term when the party in charge is more progressive/liberal. Republican policies help the economy more as a whole and thus compliment a healthy dose of regulation (a completely unregulated system like Liberterians often yearn for is far too volatile and companies get in their own way ex: housing market issues). I digress though, I simply wanted to make sure that everyone understood that there are underlying flaws and strengths in every philosophy.
 

macle

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break down of rubio

good
- immigration reform: pathway to citizenship for illegals

bad
- believes only weed that doesn't get you high should be legalized?
- doubts humans contribute to climate change
- pro life
- anti epa
- anti affordable care act
- anti gay marriage

also "From Jan 2011 to Oct 2015, Rubio missed 168 of 1,426 roll call votes, which is 11.8%. This is much worse than the median of 1.6% among the lifetime records of senators currently serving." He doesnt even do his job as a senator...
 

UncleSam

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Thanks for stating the positions of the parties macle most of us weren't clear on those.

Like seriously of what use is that breakdown to any voter who hasn't already made up their mind?
 

LonelyNess

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Thanks for stating the positions of the parties macle most of us weren't clear on those.

Like seriously of what use is that breakdown to any voter who hasn't already made up their mind?
Wait, I'm mixed up I thought the democrats were for all of the things macle posted not the republicans.

I've made a huge mistake, I'm rescinding my support for Sanders

Go Trump Go!
 
break down of rubio

good
- immigration reform: pathway to citizenship for illegals

bad
- believes only weed that doesn't get you high should be legalized?
- doubts humans contribute to climate change
- pro life
- anti epa
- anti affordable care act
- anti gay marriage

also "From Jan 2011 to Oct 2015, Rubio missed 168 of 1,426 roll call votes, which is 11.8%. This is much worse than the median of 1.6% among the lifetime records of senators currently serving." He doesnt even do his job as a senator...

OR

good
  • immigration reform
  • not putting up with gender dysphoria bullshit
  • no bullshit epa
  • no cancerous aca
  • isn't going to cuck out to environmentalists and EU
  • isn't corrupt
  • represents american dream
 

macle

sup geodudes
is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Thanks for stating the positions of the parties macle most of us weren't clear on those.

Like seriously of what use is that breakdown to any voter who hasn't already made up their mind?
>complains about the us of my breakdown by making a useless post

rubio is also pro NSA spying on all of us, and pro immigration reform is a debated platform among republicans

Also lol being cuck out by environmentalists. If anything, we are being cuck out by oil companies that are making billions in profits quarterly while climate change keeps progressing and the earth is turning to shit.
 

LonelyNess

Makin' PK Love
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
lol jesus christ he thinks because they share the same party name that Rubio and Lincoln have the same political platform.

i bet you also think democrats are the real racists too because the party that was pro-slavery was called democrat too.

put down the kool-aid, asterat you have clearly drank waaaay too much
 
Republicans like saying they are the party of Lincoln, but their policies are completely different between now and then. A proper American history education regarding the Civil War era would have cleared that up. But I feel most Republicans reject history (see Texas standards glossing over [and that's a nice way of putting it] the Civil War era through the Civil Rights Movement), judging by the general disdain of public education. Funnily enough, the importance of public education for all children was a colonial policy dating back to the original Puritan pilgrims...

In honesty, a proper education tends to result in less conservative voters. When facts (history, science, math; the whole lot) and critical thinking (one of the most valuable skills a person can have; knowledge and information are of no use if you can't evaluate the authenticity/validity of said information/knowledge and apply it accordingly) are used to form an opinion, or come to a conclusion, the result tends to be refuted by conservatives as liberal bias. Not surprising, since the denial of anthropogenic climate change--the most important global issue facing humanity and modern life--is essentially the stance of most Republicans... as well as rejection of economic regulation and welfare to resolve income disparity... oh, and similarly, promotion of corporate welfare in the form of subsidies, tax breaks, laxer regulation, anti-competitive laws... as well as anti-progressive religious (most primarily special branches of Evangelical Christianity; see disdain for Catholicism) legislation... or the must crucial aspect of conservative thinking: the individual is to blame for all his ills, essentially eliminating the idea of cause and effect.

Also, did that picture have to be so obnoxiously big..?
 
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