HeaLnDeaL
Let's Keep Fighting
We're getting into the heart of CAP and will be dealing with extremely nitty-gritty numbers as we now step into Stat Spread Submissions. Get out your spreadsheets and your calculators, kids! When this thread ends, Stats Leader sparktrain, the great and honorable nerd, will make a list of accepted submissions for voting based on intelligent community input. In the previous thread, we decided on some limitations to what a stat spread could accomplish, in the form of limits to certain derived statistics:
BSR abuse is doing things like 150 HP and 70 Def/SpD to create a theoretical optimum with the limits that you have. The purpose of the stat rating limits is to restrict what submitters can do, not to give them a license to game the system. If you cannot justify your stats legitimately and have not proven that you aren't just making the best stats within the limits, you will not get slated.
Here is a spreadsheet for calculating Physical Sweepiness, Physical Tankiness, Special Sweepiness, Special Tankiness, and Base Stat Rating. To use the spreadsheet, you will need Microsoft Excel 2007 or higher, OpenOffice.org Calc 3 or higher, or a similar spreadsheet program that can handle .xlsx files. Alternatively, you can upload the spreadsheet onto Google docs. You must have the stat rating values listed correctly in your submission or it will be ignored for the slate. If you want to dig a little deeper into how these numbers are calculated, read the contents of this link.
When you are satisfied with your stat submission, mark it as finished by writing "Final Submission" (bolded) at the top of your post. Submissions that lack a bolded "Final Submission" at the top of the post when this thread closes will not be slated.
This thread will be open for submissions and discussion when sparktrain, the honorable hero of the nerds, has posted his opening comments.
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CAP21 so far:
Typing: Rock/Poison
Ability:
Base - Regenerator / ?????
Mega - Magic Guard
Leadership Team:
jas61292 (he has a pool) - Topic Leader
imanalt - Typing Leader
DetroitLolcat - Abilities Leader
sparktrain (aka honorable judge nerd) - Stats Leader
HeaLnDeaL (aka loser) - Movepool Leader
Concept:
BSR ABUSE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED AND WILL NOT BE SLATED!sparktrain/jas said:Base
PT: 170
PS: 180
ST: 195
SS: 145
BSR: 325
Mega
PT: 170
PS: 230
ST: 240
SS: 145
BSR: 410
spark: The Base and Mega BSR limits are unchanged from my post earlier, as they seemed to be pretty solid upper benchmarks from the feedback I've gathered, and they put CAP 21 in a similar ballpark as several of OU's viable Mega Evolutions. The biggest stat bias that jumps out is the ST rating. I was able to talk with HeaLnDeaL a considerable amount earlier, and we eventually agreed that this limit should be higher than where I was originally aiming to allow users more freedom to focus on more specially defensive stat spreads with lower Speed if they so choose. Jas himself has stated that this is probably the most important thing for us to be focusing on. Specifically, the given upper limit for ST allows uninvested Mega CAP 21 to always avoid the OHKO from Choice Specs Keldeo's Scald. All the other stat bias ratings are based off of direct feedback from this thread and IRC, and I feel comfortable listing them as such since they were justified quite well. You'll notice that the PT and SS limits for the Base and the Mega are the same. This doesn't imply that the stats are required to remain the same between the base and Mega form; it only implies they aren't the primary areas of growth as CAP 21 Mega Evolves. The only specific limits that change are PS and ST, which is to encourage significant growth in these areas, as was deemed important, therefore providing incentive for CAP 21's Mega Evolution. You'll also notice that there is a fair bit of leeway in pretty much every area, with the exception of total BSR. This was very much intentional, providing users with increased freedom to choose between varying combinations of Speed and offensive stats, as well as which stat biases they'd like to lean towards when designing their stat spreads. The total BSR limits are in place to balance this, ensuring that stat submissions don't push the limits in too many areas.
jas: There is just a little bit I want to change here. After having looked at these limits, I checked out a bunch of potential ways that people might want to go with stats, and for the most part, I think these limits worked well. The only real place that I noticed anything somewhat troubling was if someone wanted a faster base form. With certain reasonable higher speed stats prior to mega evolution, I believed that either the base would be forced to be very impotent, or that the mega would not be gaining enough of a boost in its offensive prowess to justify the mega evolution as much as we would like. With that said, typically, what I would consider to be more reasonable for a mevo change only would just barely miss the limits. So, I am going to use my power here to boost the mega form's Physical Sweepiness level by 5 points, up to 230. With the BSR limit remaining the same, this would allow submitters a bit more freedom with faster spreads, without allowing the overall power to really be pumped up any more.
Finally, I would just like to mention that, when running all sorts of different potential spreads, I often found that the BSR limits were not nearly as hard to work around as the 100 BST Mega Evolution limit. On the one hand, you obviously cannot bump things up too much, sometimes making it hard to get the power level difference you want between forms. On the other hand, you can't always simply keep PT and SS the same in both forms, because sometimes there is simply no way to put all 100 points into Atk, SpD and Spe without either breaking the PS or ST limits, or making the base too weak. This may be, in fact, the biggest limiting factor, and I will be very interested to see the kinds of spreads people will come up with. I will have a bit to say on BST limitations and new kinds of abuse beyond standard BSR abuse that arise thanks to the mega evolution, but that is best put in the stats submission thread itself. So that's all for now.
BSR abuse is doing things like 150 HP and 70 Def/SpD to create a theoretical optimum with the limits that you have. The purpose of the stat rating limits is to restrict what submitters can do, not to give them a license to game the system. If you cannot justify your stats legitimately and have not proven that you aren't just making the best stats within the limits, you will not get slated.
Here is a spreadsheet for calculating Physical Sweepiness, Physical Tankiness, Special Sweepiness, Special Tankiness, and Base Stat Rating. To use the spreadsheet, you will need Microsoft Excel 2007 or higher, OpenOffice.org Calc 3 or higher, or a similar spreadsheet program that can handle .xlsx files. Alternatively, you can upload the spreadsheet onto Google docs. You must have the stat rating values listed correctly in your submission or it will be ignored for the slate. If you want to dig a little deeper into how these numbers are calculated, read the contents of this link.
When you are satisfied with your stat submission, mark it as finished by writing "Final Submission" (bolded) at the top of your post. Submissions that lack a bolded "Final Submission" at the top of the post when this thread closes will not be slated.
This thread will be open for submissions and discussion when sparktrain, the honorable hero of the nerds, has posted his opening comments.
--------------------
CAP21 so far:
Typing: Rock/Poison
Ability:
Base - Regenerator / ?????
Mega - Magic Guard
Leadership Team:
jas61292 (he has a pool) - Topic Leader
imanalt - Typing Leader
DetroitLolcat - Abilities Leader
sparktrain (aka honorable judge nerd) - Stats Leader
HeaLnDeaL (aka loser) - Movepool Leader
Concept:
Name: Typing Underdog
General Description: A Pokémon which utilizes an undervalued typing to its full potential, by playing towards both its strengths and weaknesses.
Justification: Each typing possesses a unique set of characteristics, causing all of them to perform very differently in various aspects of battle. However, not every typing has been granted the opportunity to display this potential, being forced into suboptimal roles by virtue of stats, ability and movepool, and therefore often being labelled as “bad”.
This concept aims to do a detailed analysis on the primary function of such a typing along with its potentially unexplored capabilities, by creating a Pokémon that that emphasizes the typing’s most prominent traits and utilizes them effectively.
This approach will not only allow us to widen our understanding on the unique niche and preferred playstyle of the typing, but will also give us additional insight on the mechanics that lead to success and failure of the typing when comparing CAP to the wielders in the lower tiers.
Questions to be answered:
- What are the most important traits the Pokémon gains from the chosen typing, both positive and negative?
- Is quality or quantity of weaknesses/resistances/immunities more relevant to the chosen typing? What does this mean for the way it is played?
- How significant is the niche provided by the typing in OU? Are there any striking flaws in the typing that can’t be played around and prevent the Pokémon from performing reliably?
- How reliant is the typing on stats, ability and movepool in order to succeed in OU?
- Are the unique characteristics granted by the typing enough to set the Pokemon apart, or does it face strong competition for its role from Pokémon of other types?
- Is there any distinct playstyle that suits the chosen typing the best? Or can the same typing be utilized in an entirely different approach to similar success?
- How important is a type’s versatility for its overall success?
- Is a single Pokémon capable of portraying most relevant aspects of the entire type?
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