Inheritance [Prime Council Elected]

[MeaninglessTilting]

Zoroark can't learn sludge bomb, but a Gengar inheriting imposter was still able to use it.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-289789368

 

[MK]

Zoroark can't learn sludge bomb, but a Gengar inheriting imposter was still able to use it.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-289789368

Recent event allows Zoroark to learn Slugde Bomb.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

^this right here is my main stance on the point. NOBODY has shown any form of replay of chatter being GAME BREAKING. people have shown replays of it "doing work" but honestly, lets not ban chatter because its chatter. HOWEVER, i will say, im not just idley waiting for someone to show me, as i myself decided to take initiative, and try out chatter myself...and...to be quite honest, its pretty...mediocre. it puts in work...sometimes. but thats the problem, i expected more out of tornadus on a hax-driven team. and allthough i won more then i lost...it was only like...60% out of 100. it really wasnt enough for me to jump on my boots. chatter is a really good move, dont get me wrong, but its just kinda like..."oh, someone hit through chatter each turn and KOed me" honestly, im not saying "I HAD NO PROBLEMS NO BAN" but...idk. many pokemon are able to defeat natural "Special based" counters(looking at keldeo, psychic types, and others alike) its really not new. sorry guys, but i still dont see anything broken about chatter. after facing, using, and seeing it in action. compared to AAA, TS, BH, and stabmons, it just DOESNT impact the meta enough. i mean, its not even making teams run dedicated counters to it. because most teams allready run the nessisary tools to handle them :s its just....not broken in my eyes. or at least, not yet.

So you're saying I wasn't prepared? My assault yest regenerator Goodra, Chansey and Suicune were how I prepared, and I still managed to almost lose. For gods sake, if he had ran hurricane it wouldn't have been a problem, but with chatter he can literally beat anything depending on hax.

 

[Scyther NO Swiping]

So I've been using Lando-I and it's been working well for me, but I was wondering, is it actually legal. I mean it lets me use it, but I know this has been a little buggy with the banlist and such. I'm really asking because it's not listed as being unbanned in the OP, whether that's because of an oversight, because Lando-I wasn't Ubers at the time this was created, or just an error with the banlist on the sim, some clarification would be nice. It works really well on my team, and as much as I would hate to lose it, I wouldn't want to use a mon that is supposed to be banned.

 

[sin(pi)]

So I've been using Lando-I and it's been working well for me, but I was wondering, is it actually legal. I mean it lets me use it, but I know this has been a little buggy with the banlist and such. I'm really asking because it's not listed as being unbanned in the OP, whether that's because of an oversight, because Lando-I wasn't Ubers at the time this was created, or just an error with the banlist on the sim, some clarification would be nice. It works really well on my team, and as much as I would hate to lose it, I wouldn't want to use a mon that is supposed to be banned.

From the previous page:

Landorus-Incarnate should be unbanned -- probably an oversight that it wasn't added to the unban list, tbh. Apart from being the most Specially powerful non-mega Ground-type, its stats and typing aren't banworthy, and there are better sheer force users than it that are completely balanced.

This is basically correct, it's not broken now that everything gets access to SF (possibly with better stats/movepool). That isn't to say it's not good, of course.

 

[Asumi]

I spend more time making teams (and giving nicknames) than actually using them. :P

This is one of my more successful ones.

Hide

Gerbil (Landorus-Therian) @ Leftovers (inheriting from Blaziken)
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Earthquake
- Protect
- Baton Pass

Enough EVs to survive any kind of Staraptor Extreme Speed and non-banded Ice Shard, so you can at least Protect first turn and Baton Pass the next. Enough speed to outrun Jolly Weavile after speed boost.

Cloudy (Altaria) @ Altarianite (inheriting from Genesect)
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest / Hasty Nature
- Techno Blast
- Flash Cannon (this sucks don't use it)
- Substitute
- Flamethrower

Pass some speed into this thing and prepare to break some. If you get a bonus special attack from Download, you're gold. Flamethrower destroys Steel-types. Flash Cannon is quite useless because Pixilate Techno Blast actually hits Fairies harder. You can make it Shiny with a Hasty Nature so you can use Pixilate Extreme Speed (which you can abuse if you get a +Atk from Download), or Pixilate Explosion.

Ruby (Diancie) @ Sitrus Berry (inheriting from Slurpuff)
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe (I played it with no EVs. I feel so dumb. XD)
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Drain Punch
- Substitute
- Belly Drum

OMG I thought this thing was mediocre. Then I realized that I was using it without EVs and it even manages to OHKO stuff. I haven't tested a fixed version (with EVs) but it's probably monstrous. Virtually impossible to revenge kill without priority after getting passed some speed.

Chihuahua (Suicune) @ Leftovers (inheriting from Quagsire)
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Protect
- Toxic

Standard Unaware water dog. It functions even better with some speed passes as it allows you to be a bit more aggressive with Scald.

Lunar Duck (Cresselia) @ Leftovers (inheriting from Clefable)
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Stored Power
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Calm Mind

This thing is an absolute monster after getting a speed pass. The additional speed adds damage to Stored Power making this a powerful sweeper. This Cresselia actually dealt the most damage out of all my games. Probably best to move the 4 SpA EVs to speed, so it can outspeed other Cresselia without needing a speed pass.

Nerf Gun (Genesect) @ Life Orb (inheriting from Scizor)
Ability: Technician
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Silver Wind
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Ominous Wind
- Vacuum Wave

Pretty mediocre, but absorbs Ice Beams directed at Landorus-T and makes good use of the speed pass. Probably better to swap around the Speed EVs for more defenses. You can even use Struggle Bug to punish Heatran switch-ins.

 

[motherlove]

On the subject of Adaptability ESpeed, I feel like everyone knows about Ursaring because he is the normal type with the highest raw attack stat (cuz King and Gigas got banned), but are people really using it much? I see this about Ambipom and it makes me wonder who the best Normal type for the job is. There are many Normal Flyings like Braviary who would love to do the job, but MegaLuc doesn't have any physical flying STAB for them to abuse with Adaptability.

Really depends on what your team needs. I usually run more bulky-ish / balanced team so having an Espeeder that outspeeds medicham is pretty important, ambipom also outspeeds any kind of -ate but sometimes you just want raw power.
I also really like birds like braviary or staraptor because of a high attack and good speed tier, but I usually prefer running them with mega ray's set since you get double stab + usefull ability.

^this right here is my main stance on the point. NOBODY has shown any form of replay of chatter being GAME BREAKING. people have shown replays of it "doing work" but honestly, lets not ban chatter because its chatter. HOWEVER, i will say, im not just idley waiting for someone to show me, as i myself decided to take initiative, and try out chatter myself...and...to be quite honest, its pretty...mediocre. it puts in work...sometimes. but thats the problem, i expected more out of tornadus on a hax-driven team. and allthough i won more then i lost...it was only like...60% out of 100. it really wasnt enough for me to jump on my boots. chatter is a really good move, dont get me wrong, but its just kinda like..."oh, someone hit through chatter each turn and KOed me" honestly, im not saying "I HAD NO PROBLEMS NO BAN" but...idk. many pokemon are able to defeat natural "Special based" counters(looking at keldeo, psychic types, and others alike) its really not new. sorry guys, but i still dont see anything broken about chatter. after facing, using, and seeing it in action. compared to AAA, TS, BH, and stabmons, it just DOESNT impact the meta enough. i mean, its not even making teams run dedicated counters to it. because most teams allready run the nessisary tools to handle them :s its just....not broken in my eyes. or at least, not yet.

I'm kinda on a fence about chatter right now, but they have been some occassions (before I made the first comment so I don't have the replays) where chatter changed the course of a game both when I was facing it and when I was using it. One time I was winning a battle about 5-2 and my opponent sends sub/chatter tornadus who managed to hax his way through my specially invested ff doublade, my rhydon (who ohkoes torn with ease) and my max SpD / HP regenvest goodra only to end up winning a battle that seemed like an obvious loss by pure hax. Another time after making a really mediocre team to abuse chatter on a mega pidgeot I had a battle against a ph lax and I realized I had nothing against this monster (who already had a bulk up in the back) but managed to win by clicking chatter and then boombursting twice as lax hits itself.
Concerning AJA's replay I'd like to point out that scorthing's team has 0 stallbreakers or something close to that. The fact that it managed to kill anything is amazing. But I also battled aja's team with chatter spam, exept I had sub / chatter tornadus and aja forfeited pretty early when I had my torn at +2 with a sub up and had already killed something. And I'm pretty sure seraph would have won if he was packing the sub. From game to game chatter varies from being mediocre to being the best thing to ever exist.


A few unrelated things I'd like to say,
-Slurpuff learns gastro acid which could be used to destroy stall.
-You don't have to use a fairy type, tbh I think a fighting type would be better since you can really abuse drain punch. Lucario for example resists every priority so could be a decent mon.
-I've had a lot of success inheriting poison heal from breloom on bulky-ish fighting types, I tried a dain punch / seed bomb / mach punch / sd set on a max defense chesnaught for example and it can really pressure teams while still maintaining it's role as a great physical wall. Another one I tried more recently with great success is max speed / attack virizon with bulk up instead of sd, and I had really great success with it, the advantages it has over snorlax is a great speed tier, it outspeeds every relevant bird and can kill them with a bit of prior damage (non of them, even landorus can switch in repetitively) it also outspeeds and kos stuff like hoopa or mega gardevoir at +2 and overall can put a ton of pressure against offense and stall.

notable replays

Yeah I only have replays for chesnaught. And not a lot, I always forget to save replays.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-289023194 this guy was pretty low ladder but it was at the beginning of the month and he has a legit team.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-289034883 I think most ppl know who miltankmilk is.

 

[NyneTiNyne]

Victini (Charizard) @ Charizardite X
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Skill Swap
- U-turn

There are no words to describe the power of this thing, so first let's show some calcs:
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 267-315 (60.1 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 264-312 (65.3 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Wow, it easily 2HKO's 2 of the most common walls. But what about Flash Fire you say? Well, you see the move right under Bolt Strike? Yeah, FF won't stop this bad boy either.

Now a little more serious, this thing is really, really, really good. The only switch-ins I've found so far that are also viable in the metagame are Regirock and Zygarde. You can, if you want, put Focus Blast/Glaciate on it for those 2 respectively, but you'll need some SpA investment to reliably 2HKO either Regirock or Zygarde. V-create is your move you'll be spamming the most and Bolt strike is mainly for Suicune and other bulky waters. Skill Swap is pretty obvious and U-turn is for momentum.
What initially brought me to this set was the fact that I was looking for a pokemon that could hit very, very hard and had almost no counters. Before I used Zard X, I had been using M-Medicham, but it's 80 base speed is pretty bad and due to having almost no bulk it was easily revenge-killed. Zard X does not have that problem with 100 base speed and the bulk to live almost any 1 hit.

 

[CactusCacti]

in the chat few days ago I brought up the chatter on how to make it worthwhile to milk it enough to be worthwhile using to make your argument to ban it and it generally ran down to;
Powerful STAB user that can protect itself from offense, outspeed enough threats, and have enough base SPA to break unware, and requires stat up to break other walls.
which lead to the point of Tornadus and Thundurus which can do this without wasting your mega slot.
Which lead to the set of sub, np, chatter, roost/boom

yet its still medicore when you really use it yourself.
Is it annoying? Yes
Is it worthwhile to run on any other mon? Mega pidgeot if you enjoy wasting mega slot, otherwise lol no

So honestly guys, actually fucking run it yourself, and take notes
Take all your replays where you won, all where you lost, all where you wasted time with the set, all where you got something out of it.
Then also when you're not running and run to someone using it; take all where you got rekted by it, all where you rekt'd it yourself.

Then actually look at the results without your confirmation bias of bad experiences and show everyone;
How broken was it?

 

[Mygavolt]

I can't teambuild for crud, so I'm just going to post a set here.

Pangoro (Ninjask) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- X-Scissor
- Knock Off
- Taunt
- Parting Shot

With a huge base 160 Speed, Ninjask can use Pangoro's movepool to Taunt anything not carrying Prankster (Magic Bounce users are invalidated thanks to Mold Breaker) or use Parting Shot to make it easier for teammates to switch in. STAB X-Scissor is its strongest form of offense (which could maybe be replaced with Aerial Ace for better coverage), and Knock Off is for utility. Focus Sash is for surviving priority from an opposing lead, while EVs are put into Speed to outspeed as much as possible (up to Scarf base 90s and +2 base 55s) and Attack to strengthen its X-Scissors and Knock Offs.

 

[Lcass4919]

Victini (Charizard) @ Charizardite X
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Skill Swap
- U-turn

There are no words to describe the power of this thing, so first let's show some calcs:
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 267-315 (60.1 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 264-312 (65.3 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Wow, it easily 2HKO's 2 of the most common walls. But what about Flash Fire you say? Well, you see the move right under Bolt Strike? Yeah, FF won't stop this bad boy either.

Now a little more serious, this thing is really, really, really good. The only switch-ins I've found so far that are also viable in the metagame are Regirock and Zygarde. You can, if you want, put Focus Blast/Glaciate on it for those 2 respectively, but you'll need some SpA investment to reliably 2HKO either Regirock or Zygarde. V-create is your move you'll be spamming the most and Bolt strike is mainly for Suicune and other bulky waters. Skill Swap is pretty obvious and U-turn is for momentum.
What initially brought me to this set was the fact that I was looking for a pokemon that could hit very, very hard and had almost no counters. Before I used Zard X, I had been using M-Medicham, but it's 80 base speed is pretty bad and due to having almost no bulk it was easily revenge-killed. Zard X does not have that problem with 100 base speed and the bulk to live almost any 1 hit.

ive used this, but with grass knot to catch off pokemon like suicune, rhydon, and whatnot. plus its tough claws boosted, which means it outdamages focus blast on most stuff it wants to hit.

 

[Robertman2]

Here's my team if anyone cares.
Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Ice Punch

Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam

Hawlucha @ Choice Band
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch

Marowak @ Thick Club
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Ice Punch
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch

Tornadus @ Life Orb
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Roost

Umbreon @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic

 

[T.I.A.]

Here's my team if anyone cares.
Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Ice Punch

Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam

Hawlucha @ Choice Band
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch

Marowak @ Thick Club
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Ice Punch
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch

Tornadus @ Life Orb
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Roost

Umbreon @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic

Nice team, but for Tornadus, replace Draco Meteor with Hydro Pump.

 

[motherlove]

That team looks incredibly weak to extremespeed, I mean your play against other pinsirs is literally winning a speed tie, and your switchin to ursaring is gengar which dies to crunch.
What's the point of ice punch on marowak? Or on pinsir? Or on hawlucha?
You lose to stall. You actually just lose it's not even funny. Doublade + chansey wall your entire team.
Some sets are pretty dope tho.

 

[Ghoul King]

Things I have concerns about.

-Protean. Fast, powerful mixed attackers are a ridiculous nightmare. They're shut down hard (Well, most of them: Garchomp is bulky enough it can tank it if it's not Pixilated or Refrigerated) by Extreme Speed, but A: you can't switch into them and B: that's little consolation for stall. I had concerns last time this was OMotM, and I don't think the Inheritance Clause has made them go away. It doesn't even mean you can't stack a large team of Protean abusers: Frogadier has most of what matters in Greninja's movepool, and Froakie is only missing a handful of moves over Frogadier. That's 2/3rds of a Protean spam team in conjunction with Kecleon. (Froakie loses over Frogadier: Dark Pulse, Gunk Shot, Ice Punch, Low Kick. Frogadier loses over Greninja: Extrasensory, Feint Attack, Giga Impact, Hyper Beam, Hydro Cannon, Haze, Night Slash, Shadow Sneak, Mat Block, Spikes, Water Shuriken. Some of these are problematic for a Protean abuser to lose, many of them are irrelevant)

Physical Protean abusers are fun, fine, balanced, cool. Special Protean abusers are fun, fine, balanced, cool. But mixed attackers are a nightmare, and it takes fairly specialized mixed walls to have any chance at all, and even the ones I want to name don't actually work: Flashfire Ferrothorn can't necessarily take Azelf's Drain Punch, for instance.

So: concerned about Protean.

-Mega Gyarados. More of a stall problem, again, but it's not like it's actually bad against offensive teams. The only setup sweeper in the game that can go "lolnope" to Unaware without any effort. Theoretically, Mega Ampharos can pull off similar, but it doesn't get to combine Shell Smash or Quiver Dance with Thunderbolt or Dragon Pulse, and it can only combine Tail Glow with Thunderbolt, STABs-wise, and Volbeat's Special movepool is pretty awful. Mega Gyarados gets Shell Smash, Sucker Punch, Waterfall, Knock Off, etc (Not all at once, mind), and on top of that neither of its STABs is possible to be immune to, where both of Mega Ampharos' STABs can be blocked by type-based immunity. Also, even at +6 it only does

+6 252 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 358-423 (55.7 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

this to Chansey, which gives Chansey time to Calm Mind or Haze or whatever. There's no Physical wall that's remotely equivalent at dealing with Mega Gyarados. Hell, at +2 it 3HKOs Physically Defensive Azumarill with resisted STABs. And it can inherit Belly Drum with competent STABs off of Azumarill (just inherit Thick Fat or Sap Sipper), so even our Physically Defensive Azumarill can end up losing 80+% from Knock Off and then, even if it's running priority for some reason, be finished off by Aqua Jet doing 33+%.

Even for offense, it resists several priority moves (Bullet Punch, Aqua Jet, Ice Shard, Refrigerated priority...), and what priority is effective against Mega Gyarados isn't effective against regular Gyarados, so a Mach Punch may be resisted while it kills you. It gets to run its own competent priority while boosting, too of course. And of course Mega Gyarados has a decent Speed tier, where Mega Ampharos is very slow, and also Mega Ampharos is week to Refrigerate, Pixilate, and Ice Shard, all of which makes Mega Ampharos even less viable against offense while Mega Gyarados is aided.

I'm not really sure what stall is supposed to do to Mega Gyarados, and, again, it's not actually bad against offense. Roaring and Whirlwinding it out works... okay... until it's the last thing standing and suddenly it's invincible behind its substitute. I guess there's Perish Song, but it has limited PP, and Mega Gyarados' base Attack is high enough to be a serious threat without boosting.

-Mega Charizard X. Just using V-Create sets it can stallbreak to an alarming degree, and still put in serious work against offense. This one is more borderline, because I haven't done a ton of looking into ways to counter it. Even so, I'm not happy with how it seems to be able to basically pick what it wants to not be countered by: Flashfire Steel type? Skill Swap says hi. Physically Defensive Suicune? Grass Knot! I'm concerned by how it doesn't even need to look anywhere besides Victini and Rayquaza.

-Chatter in principle. I'll be honest: I haven't fought it, I doubt it's all that viable on the ladder. Nonetheless, you can Chatter, Substitute, Nasty Plot, and basically just arrange to fish for good RNG results and minimize the consequences of bad RNG results, and you still have a moveslot left for coverage, Roost, Taunt, whatever. You can't even reliably revenge it with priority abusers thanks to the Substitute abuse: sacrifice something, bring in your priority, and it will break the Substitute and then have a 50/50 chance of actually killing the Chatterer because they hit you with Chatter, which is assuming you'll OHKO them.

----

Stuff I'm having fun with.

-Mega Gardevoir inheriting from Omastar. Why? Because it's the only Pokemon in the entire game to combine Special boosting superior to Calm Mind or Nasty Plot (Shell Smash) with a Special Normal move that isn't complete garbage. (Wring Out) It's a pretty good stallbreaker, though I sometimes feel I was better off with the Boomburst set's reliability. If Wring Out can't OHKO the target and the support moves can't finish off the target, it struggles, and the ability to boost is less useful than it sounds when Unaware is so easy to come by. I particularly find myself missing Boomburst's ability to bypass Substitutes: before I made the change I thought I wouldn't miss it, because I never ran into Substitutes I wanted to Boomburst. Then I switched and suddenly Substitutes being able to Boomburst past would win me the match were everywhere.

It's also just way too susceptible to priority, which isn't a good thing with how offensively slanted the ladder is and how powerful a lot of the priority is.

Plus, Omastar's Abilities are pretty useless. Levitate at least lets me switch in on slow Ground types.

-Zapdos inheriting from Clefable. People never see this coming, and often don't figure it out until it uses Moonlight. Sometimes not even then. It's a fantastic Unaware wall, and in particular is "no, Mega Pinsir" in a box, which is worth its weight in gold. Its vulnerability to weather effects is a bit of a problem, though.

I also experimented a bit with Chansey inheriting from Xatu, which I think would actually be really cool if you could combine Defog with Magic Bounce. Alas, that is illegal. Still, it has Night Shade, recovery, pivoting, and some utility moves. It's not bad.

 

[Tarontos]

Things I have concerns about.

-Protean. Fast, powerful mixed attackers are a ridiculous nightmare. They're shut down hard (Well, most of them: Garchomp is bulky enough it can tank it if it's not Pixilated or Refrigerated) by Extreme Speed, but A: you can't switch into them and B: that's little consolation for stall. I had concerns last time this was OMotM, and I don't think the Inheritance Clause has made them go away. It doesn't even mean you can't stack a large team of Protean abusers: Frogadier has most of what matters in Greninja's movepool, and Froakie is only missing a handful of moves over Frogadier. That's 2/3rds of a Protean spam team in conjunction with Kecleon. (Froakie loses over Frogadier: Dark Pulse, Gunk Shot, Ice Punch, Low Kick. Frogadier loses over Greninja: Extrasensory, Feint Attack, Giga Impact, Hyper Beam, Hydro Cannon, Haze, Night Slash, Shadow Sneak, Mat Block, Spikes, Water Shuriken. Some of these are problematic for a Protean abuser to lose, many of them are irrelevant)

Physical Protean abusers are fun, fine, balanced, cool. Special Protean abusers are fun, fine, balanced, cool. But mixed attackers are a nightmare, and it takes fairly specialized mixed walls to have any chance at all, and even the ones I want to name don't actually work: Flashfire Ferrothorn can't necessarily take Azelf's Drain Punch, for instance.

So: concerned about Protean.

-Mega Gyarados. More of a stall problem, again, but it's not like it's actually bad against offensive teams. The only setup sweeper in the game that can go "lolnope" to Unaware without any effort. Theoretically, Mega Ampharos can pull off similar, but it doesn't get to combine Shell Smash or Quiver Dance with Thunderbolt or Dragon Pulse, and it can only combine Tail Glow with Thunderbolt, STABs-wise, and Volbeat's Special movepool is pretty awful. Mega Gyarados gets Shell Smash, Sucker Punch, Waterfall, Knock Off, etc (Not all at once, mind), and on top of that neither of its STABs is possible to be immune to, where both of Mega Ampharos' STABs can be blocked by type-based immunity. Also, even at +6 it only does

+6 252 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 358-423 (55.7 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

this to Chansey, which gives Chansey time to Calm Mind or Haze or whatever. There's no Physical wall that's remotely equivalent at dealing with Mega Gyarados. Hell, at +2 it 3HKOs Physically Defensive Azumarill with resisted STABs. And it can inherit Belly Drum with competent STABs off of Azumarill (just inherit Thick Fat or Sap Sipper), so even our Physically Defensive Azumarill can end up losing 80+% from Knock Off and then, even if it's running priority for some reason, be finished off by Aqua Jet doing 33+%.

Even for offense, it resists several priority moves (Bullet Punch, Aqua Jet, Ice Shard, Refrigerated priority...), and what priority is effective against Mega Gyarados isn't effective against regular Gyarados, so a Mach Punch may be resisted while it kills you. It gets to run its own competent priority while boosting, too of course. And of course Mega Gyarados has a decent Speed tier, where Mega Ampharos is very slow, and also Mega Ampharos is week to Refrigerate, Pixilate, and Ice Shard, all of which makes offense less viable against it.

I'm not really sure what stall is supposed to do to Mega Gyarados, and, again, it's not actually bad against offense. Roaring and Whirlwinding it out works... okay... until it's the last thing standing and suddenly it's invincible behind its substitute. I guess there's Perish Song, but it has limited PP, and Mega Gyarados' base Attack is high enough to be a serious threat without boosting.

-Mega Charizard X. Just using V-Create sets it can stallbreak to an alarming degree, and still put in serious work against offense. This one is more borderline, because I haven't done a ton of looking into ways to counter it. Even so, I'm not happy with how it seems to be able to basically pick what it wants to not be countered by: Flashfire Steel type? Skill Swap says hi. Physically Defensive Suicune? Grass Knot! I'm concerned by how it doesn't even need to look anywhere besides Victini and Rayquaza.

-Chatter in principle. I'll be honest: I haven't fought it, I doubt it's all that viable on the ladder. Nonetheless, you can Chatter, Substitute, Nasty Plot, and basically just arrange to fish for good RNG results and minimize the consequences of bad RNG results, and you still have a moveslot left for coverage, Roost, Taunt, whatever. You can't even reliably revenge it with priority abusers thanks to the Substitute abuse: sacrifice something, bring in your priority, and it will break the Substitute and then have a 50/50 chance of actually killing the Chatterer because they hit you with Chatter, which is assuming you'll OHKO them.

----

Stuff I'm having fun with.

-Mega Gardevoir inheriting from Omastar. Why? Because it's the only Pokemon in the entire game to combine Special boosting superior to Calm Mind or Nasty Plot (Shell Smash) with a Special Normal move that isn't complete garbage. (Wring Out) It's a pretty good stallbreaker, though I sometimes feel I was better off with the Boomburst set's reliability. If Wring Out can't OHKO the target and the support moves can't finish off the target, it struggles, and the ability to boost is less useful than it sounds when Unaware is so easy to come by. I particularly find myself missing Boomburst's ability to bypass Substitutes: before I made the change I thought I wouldn't miss it, because I never ran into Substitutes I wanted to Boomburst. Then I switched and suddenly Substitutes being able to Boomburst past would win me the match were everywhere.

It's also just way too susceptible to priority, which isn't a good thing with how offensively slanted the ladder is and how powerful a lot of the priority is.

Plus, Omastar's Abilities are pretty useless. Levitate at least lets me switch in on slow Ground types.

-Zapdos inheriting from Clefable. People never see this coming, and often don't figure it out until it uses Moonlight. Sometimes not even then. It's a fantastic Unaware wall, and in particular is "no, Mega Pinsir" in a box, which is worth its weight in gold. Its vulnerability to weather effects is a bit of a problem, though.

I also experimented a bit with Chansey inheriting from Xatu, which I think would actually be really cool if you could combine Defog with Magic Bounce. Alas, that is illegal. Still, it has Night Shade, recovery, pivoting, and some utility moves. It's not bad.

the donor clause makes it so you can only have two protean users max on a team
"- OU Clauses and the Donor Clause. This prevents two or more Pokemon on a team inheriting from the same evolutionary line."

 

[NyneTiNyne]

Things I have concerns about.

-Protean. Fast, powerful mixed attackers are a ridiculous nightmare. They're shut down hard (Well, most of them: Garchomp is bulky enough it can tank it if it's not Pixilated or Refrigerated) by Extreme Speed, but A: you can't switch into them and B: that's little consolation for stall. I had concerns last time this was OMotM, and I don't think the Inheritance Clause has made them go away. It doesn't even mean you can't stack a large team of Protean abusers: Frogadier has most of what matters in Greninja's movepool, and Froakie is only missing a handful of moves over Frogadier. That's 2/3rds of a Protean spam team in conjunction with Kecleon. (Froakie loses over Frogadier: Dark Pulse, Gunk Shot, Ice Punch, Low Kick. Frogadier loses over Greninja: Extrasensory, Feint Attack, Giga Impact, Hyper Beam, Hydro Cannon, Haze, Night Slash, Shadow Sneak, Mat Block, Spikes, Water Shuriken. Some of these are problematic for a Protean abuser to lose, many of them are irrelevant)

Physical Protean abusers are fun, fine, balanced, cool. Special Protean abusers are fun, fine, balanced, cool. But mixed attackers are a nightmare, and it takes fairly specialized mixed walls to have any chance at all, and even the ones I want to name don't actually work: Flashfire Ferrothorn can't necessarily take Azelf's Drain Punch, for instance.

So: concerned about Protean.

-Mega Gyarados. More of a stall problem, again, but it's not like it's actually bad against offensive teams. The only setup sweeper in the game that can go "lolnope" to Unaware without any effort. Theoretically, Mega Ampharos can pull off similar, but it doesn't get to combine Shell Smash or Quiver Dance with Thunderbolt or Dragon Pulse, and it can only combine Tail Glow with Thunderbolt, STABs-wise, and Volbeat's Special movepool is pretty awful. Mega Gyarados gets Shell Smash, Sucker Punch, Waterfall, Knock Off, etc (Not all at once, mind), and on top of that neither of its STABs is possible to be immune to, where both of Mega Ampharos' STABs can be blocked by type-based immunity. Also, even at +6 it only does

+6 252 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 358-423 (55.7 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

this to Chansey, which gives Chansey time to Calm Mind or Haze or whatever. There's no Physical wall that's remotely equivalent at dealing with Mega Gyarados. Hell, at +2 it 3HKOs Physically Defensive Azumarill with resisted STABs. And it can inherit Belly Drum with competent STABs off of Azumarill (just inherit Thick Fat or Sap Sipper), so even our Physically Defensive Azumarill can end up losing 80+% from Knock Off and then, even if it's running priority for some reason, be finished off by Aqua Jet doing 33+%.

Even for offense, it resists several priority moves (Bullet Punch, Aqua Jet, Ice Shard, Refrigerated priority...), and what priority is effective against Mega Gyarados isn't effective against regular Gyarados, so a Mach Punch may be resisted while it kills you. It gets to run its own competent priority while boosting, too of course. And of course Mega Gyarados has a decent Speed tier, where Mega Ampharos is very slow, and also Mega Ampharos is week to Refrigerate, Pixilate, and Ice Shard, all of which makes offense less viable against it.

I'm not really sure what stall is supposed to do to Mega Gyarados, and, again, it's not actually bad against offense. Roaring and Whirlwinding it out works... okay... until it's the last thing standing and suddenly it's invincible behind its substitute. I guess there's Perish Song, but it has limited PP, and Mega Gyarados' base Attack is high enough to be a serious threat without boosting.

-Mega Charizard X. Just using V-Create sets it can stallbreak to an alarming degree, and still put in serious work against offense. This one is more borderline, because I haven't done a ton of looking into ways to counter it. Even so, I'm not happy with how it seems to be able to basically pick what it wants to not be countered by: Flashfire Steel type? Skill Swap says hi. Physically Defensive Suicune? Grass Knot! I'm concerned by how it doesn't even need to look anywhere besides Victini and Rayquaza.

-Chatter in principle. I'll be honest: I haven't fought it, I doubt it's all that viable on the ladder. Nonetheless, you can Chatter, Substitute, Nasty Plot, and basically just arrange to fish for good RNG results and minimize the consequences of bad RNG results, and you still have a moveslot left for coverage, Roost, Taunt, whatever. You can't even reliably revenge it with priority abusers thanks to the Substitute abuse: sacrifice something, bring in your priority, and it will break the Substitute and then have a 50/50 chance of actually killing the Chatterer because they hit you with Chatter, which is assuming you'll OHKO them.

----

Stuff I'm having fun with.

-Mega Gardevoir inheriting from Omastar. Why? Because it's the only Pokemon in the entire game to combine Special boosting superior to Calm Mind or Nasty Plot (Shell Smash) with a Special Normal move that isn't complete garbage. (Wring Out) It's a pretty good stallbreaker, though I sometimes feel I was better off with the Boomburst set's reliability. If Wring Out can't OHKO the target and the support moves can't finish off the target, it struggles, and the ability to boost is less useful than it sounds when Unaware is so easy to come by. I particularly find myself missing Boomburst's ability to bypass Substitutes: before I made the change I thought I wouldn't miss it, because I never ran into Substitutes I wanted to Boomburst. Then I switched and suddenly Substitutes being able to Boomburst past would win me the match were everywhere.

It's also just way too susceptible to priority, which isn't a good thing with how offensively slanted the ladder is and how powerful a lot of the priority is.

Plus, Omastar's Abilities are pretty useless. Levitate at least lets me switch in on slow Ground types.

-Zapdos inheriting from Clefable. People never see this coming, and often don't figure it out until it uses Moonlight. Sometimes not even then. It's a fantastic Unaware wall, and in particular is "no, Mega Pinsir" in a box, which is worth its weight in gold. Its vulnerability to weather effects is a bit of a problem, though.

I also experimented a bit with Chansey inheriting from Xatu, which I think would actually be really cool if you could combine Defog with Magic Bounce. Alas, that is illegal. Still, it has Night Shade, recovery, pivoting, and some utility moves. It's not bad.

One thing I have to say about this is (and I know you didn't really said it like that but) if we were to ban Protean, M-Gyarados and M-Charizard X, what would there be to stop stall from being overpowered? M-Medicham gets easily stopped by Mega-Slowbro and M-Gardevoir and Stallbreaking Hoopa are stopped by (Unaware) Registeel. Mold Breaker taunt can't help you either because Prankster is a thing.

It is possible that I'm completely wrong and that I'm having worries for nothing and if that is the case, someone please explain. Protean, M-dos and Zard X are all things that stall can't handle well, but imo stall is even with those threats a pretty viable playstyle. Protean is unpredictable but manageable and M-dos and Zard X both ask for a dedicated counter. I'm not saying you can easily put together a stallteam that is going to counter every single threat in the metagame. What I am saying is if you ban those 3 things it will result in just that making stall easily the most viable playstyle.

Again, I may be wrong, but I'm just having concerns just like you and I wanted to put that out there. Also, that Gardevoir set is very cool, I didn't even know there was a move called Wring Out until I faced your team.

 

[Tarontos]

so what do you guys think of whimsicott as a a donor, for meleotaa and porygon-z it gives prankster nature power so thats 80 bp special priority
and psycic/gigadrain/switcheroo/shadowball/moonblast for coverage/stall killing
as well as u-turn, knock off, mementoo, growth, stunspore,endeavor and cotton guard for utility sets, boosting etc.

 

[Amphabulos]

Ive been using this for a while. Its a little risky, but it can be a 6-0 if used correctly and predictions are solid.
Diancie (Slurpuff) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough
- Drain Punch
- Return

It plays exactly the same as Slurpuff, but with better attack and defenses at the cost of a little bit of speed.

 

[Akumeoy]

Ive been using this for a while. Its a little risky, but it can be a 6-0 if used correctly and predictions are solid.
Diancie (Slurpuff) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough
- Drain Punch
- Return

It plays exactly the same as Slurpuff, but with better attack and defenses at the cost of a little bit of speed.

This exact set got posted like twelve hours ago, except with Substitute over Return. Kind of weird really, seeing as how I'm pretty sure it was a non-entity in April/May.

We should actually compile the (good) sets that people have posted, because I can't really fault you for not trawling through seventy pages of shit to find out whether someone beat you to the punch. I'd be willing to divvy up the work with a few other people who know the meta.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

If you need resource, InfernapeTropius11 and I posted viable donors in page 30. Many things are not here yet, but at least newcomers won't be clueless. Ignore the Talonflame, Dugtro and Masquerain. They're banned.

Alright, so I feel like the main focus is on the inheritors (and understandably so) but I feel like there are a bunch of Pokemon that are excellent donors, for more than one Pokemon, so I've decided to highlight some of them in this post. Understand please, that most of these WILL be offensive Pokemon, as I am mostly an offensive player. Feel free to suggest others.

Talonflame

Ability: Gale Wings
Notable Moves: Will-O-Wisp, Brave Bird, Acrobatics, Flare Blitz, Roost, U-Turn, Steel Wing, Swords Dance, Substitute, Bulk Up, Return, Frustration
Explanation: The thing that makes Talonflame such a great donor is Gale Wings. Priority Brave Bird (or Acrobatics if you run a Berry set) allows it to revenge kill or even sweep exceptionally well. It also allows for items that boost power (such as Choice Band or Sharp Beak) as a Scarf is unnecessary for slower Pokemon because of the priority.
Good Receivors: Landorus-Therian, Skarmory, Staraptor, Braviary

Mega Rayquaza

Ability: Delta Stream
Notable Moves: Outrage, Dragon Claw, Dragon Ascent, Dragon Dance, V-Create, Extremespeed, Earthquake, Aqua Tail, Crunch, Dragon Pulse, Draco Meteor, Air Slash, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Waterfall, Surf, Overheat, Focus Blast, Energy Ball, Stone Edge, Dragon Tail, Swords Dance, Earth Power, Iron Head, Brick Break
Explanation: Mega Rayquaza is a great donor for a lot of Pokemon. With solid boosting moves, and a wide movepool on both sides of the physical/special spectrum, as well as an ability that lowers damage taken from Ice, Electric, and Rock type moves (not to mention it cancels out every other weather) makes it a good fit for a variety of Pokemon (most of all birds, who appreciate the added resistances/neutralities from Delta Stream). Many Pokemon appreciate inheriting from this monster that created a new tier (it literally broke ubers lmao, and it makes other Pokemon excellent as well).
Good Receivors: Tornadus-Therian, Landorus-Therian, Charizard (especially ones that Mega evolve), Aerodactyl, Salamence, Gyarados, Zapdos, Articuno, Moltres, Skarmory

Kecleon

Ability: Protean
Notable Moves: Shadow Sneak, Sucker Punch, Fake Out, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Shadow Ball, Brick Break, Rock Slide, Grass Knot, Power-Up Punch, Nasty Plot, Recover, Magic Coat, Aqua Tail, Foul Play, Drain Punch, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Knock Off, Low Kick, Thunder Punch, Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave
Explanation: Kecleon has an excellent ability in Protean, and an amazing movepool to abuse it with, once again on both the physical and special fronts. It was always held back by its crap speed and attacking stats, but now it can gift its ability and movepool to another worthy Pokemon. With its priority moves playing ype mindgames with the opponent, it is an excellent donor to a variety of Pokemon. It also has a decent support movepool, including Thunder Wave, Rocks, and Magic Coat, as well as Recovery, and ability to boost.
Good Receivors: Latios, Infernape, Azelf, Gengar, Weavile

Greninja

Ability: Protean
Notable Moves: Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Taunt, U-Turn, Shadow Sneak, Water Shuriken, Dark Pulse, Night Slash, Waterfall, Surf, Hydro Pump, Grass Knot, Ice Beam, Gunk Shot, Low Kick, Extrasensory, Rock Slide, Acrobatics
Explanation: Similar to Kecleon, it has Protean and a wide movepool. It also has access to both sets of Spikes, Taunt, and U-Turn to make the Receivors a great lead and pivot.
Good Receivors: Latias, Infernape, Hawlucha, Weavile, Floatzel (Fite me irl >:I its fast, cute, and has decent attack), Starmie, Noivern

Mega Lucario/Lucario

Ability: Adaptability/Justified
Notable Moves: Extremespeed, Dark Pulse, Psychic, Flash Cannon, Aura Sphere, Vacuum Wave, Bullet Punch, Close Combat, Crunch, Dragon Pulse, Nasty Plot, Calm Mind, Swords Dance, Bulk Up, Earthquake, Stone Edge, Poison Jab, Blaze Kick, Drain Punch, Iron Tail, Ice Punch, Thunder Punch, Zen Headbutt
Explanation: One of the best Pokemon to inherit from, period. With every single bloody boosting move (yeah I know it doesnt, but it gets the most common 4 <.<) and a very wide movepool, as well as Adaptability for everything that wants it and Justified for the Megas that wish to nab a boost before evolving, it is a premiere donor, with plenty of viable Receivors, and is something you will see being inherited from on the ladder.
Good Receivors: Latias, Latios, Glalie (especially Mega), Altaria (especially Mega), Pinsir (Mega), Hydreigon, Infernape (It's good with everything :D although tbh, I actually use Adaptability Infernape in AAA and its pretty good), Bisharp, Toxicroak, Terrakion

Quagsire

Ability: Unaware
Notable Moves: Scald, Recover, Stockpile, Toxic, Earthquake, Infestation, Yawn, Stone Edge
Explanatio: This is a defensive Pokemon that can gift its amazing Ability to stop set up sweepers to other bulkier Pokemon. Unaware halts non-Moldy set up abusers, and it also has reliable recovery, the most annoying move ever (Scald), and status in Toxic and Yawn.
Good Receivors: Suicune, Regirock, Rhydon

Masquerain

Ability: Intimidate
Notable Moves: Quiver Dance, Bug Buzz, Air Slash, Ice Beam, Energy Ball, Scald, Shadow Ball, Giga Drain, U-Turn, Roost, Toxic, Tailwind, Sticky Web, Haze, Defog, Substitute
Explanation: Normally never even thought of because of its horrible typing and below average stats all around, it makes a good donor with a decent ability and wide movepool for multiple purposes. Intimidate can buy set up opportunities or check physical attackers, and Quiver Dance turns it into a sweeper. With decent coverage, many Pokemon can inherit from it. It also has a good support movepool,including Defog, Haze, Sticky Web, Tailwind, and U-Turn. It can also form a good VoltTurn Intimidate spam core with something inheriting from Mega Manectric.
Good Receivers: Suicune, Scizor, Durant, Regirock, Slowbro (especially Mega

Primal Kyogre

Ability: Primordial Sea
Notable Moves: Water Spout, Scald, Origin Pulse, Thunder, Ice Beam, Signal Beam
Explanation: Primal Kyogre is a good donor, as it counters Desolate Land/Delta Stream users by removing their weather. Water Spout and Origin Pulse hit insanely hard even from nonstandard users because of Rain giving a pseudo-STAB. Thunder and Ice Beam round out your coverage forming he famous BoltBeam combo, and Thunder has 100% accuracy in Rain.
Good Receivors: Starmie, Gengar, Rotom-Wash

Dragonite

Ability: Multiscale
Notable Moves: Dragon Dance, Outrage, Dragon Claw, Earthquake, Fire Punch, Thunder Punch, Iron Head, Extremespeed, Aqua Tail, Steel Wing, Stone Edge, Waterfall, Ice Punch, Superpower, Hurricane, Thunder, Surf, Draco Meteor, Dragon Pulse, Ice Beam, Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Roost, Focus Blast, Aqua Jet
Explanation: Dragonite has an excellent ability in Multiscale that allows you to set up, and a wide movepool on both sides of the spectrum. Perfect for other Dragons, -ateability users, and Rain abusers.
Good Receivors: Latias, Latios, Altaria (especially Mega), Zapdos, Moltres, Articuno, Infernape ( :^) ), Rotom-Wash/Heat/Frost/Fan, Salamence, Garchomp

Obligatory shoutout to Sableye who would have undoubtedly been on this list had he not been banned.

Maybe we should have a viability ranking for donors as well to give newer players an idea of who is good to inherit from to get them started? Anyway, I hope you found this useful, and feel free to recommend any corrections/additions. Cheers n_n

I should help out. People need useful infos like this to get into the meta.

Mega Salamence

Ability: Aerilate

Notable moves: Dragon Dance, Return, Frustration, Double Edge, Facade, Crunch, Defog, Draco Meteor, Dragon Claw, Dragon Pulse, Dragon Tail, Earthquake, Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Hydro Pump, Hyper Voice, Iron Tail, Outrage, Stone Edge, Roost, Refresh, Thunder Fang, Wish, Zen Headbutt

Explanation: One of the main reasons it got banned from OU is its Aerilate ability, good stats, wide movepool and a boosting move in Dragon Dance that makes it extremely difficult to revenge kill. Now you can give your pokes Aerilate and abuse its wide movepool. It also got Roost as a recovery move and Wish for support.

Good recipients: Landorus T, Salamence, Skarmory

Mega Glalie

Ability: Refrigerate

Notable moves: Return, Frustration, Double Edge, Crunch, Explosion, Earthquake, Facade, Ice Shard, Iron Head, Switcheroo, Taunt, Spikes

Explanation: Doesn't have as many moves as other -ate users, but Refrigerate is a good ability to abuse for Ice types. It also grant you the most powerful move in the game, which is Refrigerate Explosion.

Good Recipients: Weavile, Mamoswine, Kyurem-N

Xerneas

Ability: Fairy Aura

Notable moves: Geomancy, Moonblast, Focus Blast, Flash Cannon, Psyshock, Thunderbolt, Thunder, Aromatherapy

Explanation: One of the main use of Xerneas in Ubers is using its signature move, Geomancy, combined with Power Herb to sweep a team with +2 in Special Attack, Special Defense and Speed. Fairy types that are Specially oriented benefits this the most.

Good Recipients: Togekiss, Gardevoir

Edit: Added some pokes

Nidoking

Ability: Sheer Force

Notable moves: Fire Blast, Earth Power, Focus Blast, Ice Beam, Shadow Ball, Sludge Wave, Thunderbolt

Explanation: Nidoking have Sheer Force ability, making it boost its wide movepool and make it doesn't have a Life Orb recoil. Most of them are specially based though.

Good recipients: Gengar

Dugtrio

Ability: Arena Trap

Notable moves: Earthquake, Sucker Punch, Stone Edge, Final Gambit, Rest, Toxic, Hone Claws

Explanation: Arena Trap makes it one of the best things when it comes to killing a poke, making it guaranteed, no escape. It doesn't have a wide movepool, but it has Final Gambit for killing any high HP wall instantly.

Good recipients: Landorus T, Zygarde, Swampert (I use this), any poke with base HP>150

Gliscor

Ability: Poison Heal

Notable moves: Earthquake, Knock Off, Swords Dance, Roost, Ice Fang, Stone Edge, Stealth Rock, Toxic, Taunt, U-turn

Explanation: Poison Heal is a great ability that makes you immune to status and recover 12.5% health every turn, equal to two turns of Leftovers recovery. This makes it a good wall against many pokes.

Good recipients: Uh... Most bulky pokes I guess. There are may of them

As for the recipient, there's a Viability Ranking in the same page I think. Use that.

 

[motherlove]

Tbh, there isn't too much difficulty for stall to deal with shell smash gyara, I've run chesnaugh, defensive mega gyara, mega altaria or defensive whimsicott to great effect already. But I've been looking at the azu set and the most notable thing it gains (apart from belly drum) is play rough. Play rough is really all the coverage megados could ever want. The 3 types that resist dark are fighting, dark and fairy, 2 of which are bopped by play rough and the last one isn't known for having a particularly good physical bulk.
The only thing I could think of for now is any bulky mon with prankster. Murkrow gets prankster haze + reliable recovery, illumise (which is a really great donor for defensive mons that I used a lot in inh ubers) gets prankster encore + reliable recovery + u-turn and a bunch of moves that can hit gyara super effectively. Another pokemon that I think is incredibly underated in inheritance is mega aggron and this thing can take a +6 hit from gyara and hit him with like counter, metal burst or something. Same for an itemless tangrowth.
Other than that, some niche stuff like desolate land itemless regirock / steelix / mawile / hippodown but yeah, play rough + knock off is ridiculous coverage, you don't even need a water stab bar aqua jet.

As for charizard, I never really encountered any. The thing is it really wants to run mega ray set to be better against offense but the megaray set is considerably easier to wall. But I could see a set of v-create / bolt strike / grass knot / skill swap / glaciate being problematic. If it's lacking glaciate, dragon types like zygarde, garchomp or better megachomp can wall it and kill it, if it's lacking grass knot, rock type like rhydon or regirock (which are really good in the meta) can switch on it, or other stuff like swampert. If it doesn't have skill swap, common ff mons like chesnaught, doublade or ferro can tank it.
If for some reason it has 5 moves, available options are:
-Megas (CharX walls easily also seems to wall protean, ampharos mega, altaria mega, latias mega who also does pretty well against phisically oriented protean, ttar mega who also walls hoopa)
-Victini (who also walls plenty of other stuff like gardevoir)
-Av regirock (who's really good in the meta) and spedef tyrantrum.
-Some niche stuff like hydreigon (suprisingly enough), defensive fire types like torkoal or macargo, based god shelgon and that's about all I can think of.

Other than that, moldy doesn't ignore prima sea. So prima sea chesnaught or other stuff wall pretty hard.

CharizardX seems to be manageable with non niche stuff, gyarados not so much.

 

[Ghoul King]

the donor clause makes it so you can only have two protean users max on a team
"- OU Clauses and the Donor Clause. This prevents two or more Pokemon on a team inheriting from the same evolutionary line."

Didn't think it worked that way, but I tested today and yeah, okay, it's based on evolutionary family. So my Protean spam point is false. Even so, I have concerns about Protean.

One thing I have to say about this is (and I know you didn't really said it like that but) if we were to ban Protean, M-Gyarados and M-Charizard X, what would there be to stop stall from being overpowered? M-Medicham gets easily stopped by Mega-Slowbro and M-Gardevoir and Stallbreaking Hoopa are stopped by (Unaware) Registeel. Mold Breaker taunt can't help you either because Prankster is a thing.

It is possible that I'm completely wrong and that I'm having worries for nothing and if that is the case, someone please explain. Protean, M-dos and Zard X are all things that stall can't handle well, but imo stall is even with those threats a pretty viable playstyle. Protean is unpredictable but manageable and M-dos and Zard X both ask for a dedicated counter. I'm not saying you can easily put together a stallteam that is going to counter every single threat in the metagame. What I am saying is if you ban those 3 things it will result in just that making stall easily the most viable playstyle.

Again, I may be wrong, but I'm just having concerns just like you and I wanted to put that out there. Also, that Gardevoir set is very cool, I didn't even know there was a move called Wring Out until I faced your team.

252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 226-268 (62 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Not much of a stop to Hoopa. Honestly, I'm concerned Hoopa-Confined is too much for stall as well, especially since it can choose to break Unaware by simple dint of carrying Skill Swap. (There are tons of Pokemon with Shadow Ball, Psyshock, Skill Swap, a useful Ability... and many of them have Nasty Plot, leaving you plenty of options) Porygon-Z-derived Hoopa, with Adaptability, is already just under 50% with Shadow Ball and a Life Orb, so Registeel can't necessarily switch in on that in spite of it lacking Focus Blast or other anti-Steel tools.

I don't really see the relevance of Prankster to Mold Breaker Taunt. If you care that your Taunt is Mold Breaker, it's because the target is Magic Bounce, and ergo is not a Prankster. (Barring a Sableye, Diancie, or Absol Mega Evolving, which is just the one time)

Actually, my point about Mega Gyarados and Mega Charizard X is that I don't think there is a dedicated counter possible on stall. I could be overlooking something, but Mega Gyarados just seems to laugh at stall, full stop, while Mega Charizard X can pick secondary moves for breaking any given kind of stall-based stop to it, without ever abandoning V-Create. So saying "meh, they just mean stall needs dedicated counters" is a really bad choice of criticism.

Mega Medicham is not "easily stopped" by Mega Slowbro. If you're Mega Slowbro, Mega Medicham is some nightmare horror show carrying Swords Dance (or worse) and has any number of coverage moves of relevance for tearing you apart. If it inherits from Virizion or Gallade, it can get Close Combat, Zen Headbutt, Leaf Blade, and Swords Dance.

+2 252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 336-396 (85.2 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

That's a nice 180 Defense you've got there Mr. Slowbro. Oh wait, I don't care. Leaf Blade also does more than 50% to Unaware Physically Defensive Suicune, so it's not like it's a specialized choice, and of course it has an increased critical hit ratio, so it has a 12.5% chance of any given hit being 50% more powerful, passively, making Suicune a really shaky counter to it.

Now, if Mega Slowbro could Mega Evolve while keeping Unaware, you'd have a fair point. It doesn't.

This is me going for a quick skim. There's probably other builds Mega Medicham could run if it wanted to take High Jump Kick instead, or was willing to drop Zen Headbutt down to Psycho Cut, or otherwise compromise on the STABs, that would laugh at Mega Slowbro, and then break its face.

My concern with Protean is that, again, I don't think it's possible to build a Protean check/counter. You need to have a single Pokemon that can block STAB attacks from the entire movepool of Greninja and Kecleon, you can't guess beforehand that a given Pokemon is Protean because anything with any offensive capacity is a competent abuser, who needs to worry about STAB? This must be a mixed wall to be able to take on mixed attackers -Azelf can Knock Off for more than 50% of Chansey's health and still has an excellent base 115 Special Attack- of the kind that, frankly, if it were to exist would probably be broken, because it would be able to single-handedly wall basically everything. If it's not a mixed wall, you're screwed. If it is, and you're weak to even a single move of theirs, they may well kill you anyway.

The unpredictability factor of Protean also brings me to another thing I'm getting concerned by: Illusion, ie Zoroark. It's astounding how ruinous a Zoroark inheritor can be, and the only way you'll get any warning is if you have a Tracer or Imposter that happens to face off against it. Otherwise? Oh, well, they have Gengar, time to send in Magic Bounce Chansey, oh wait lolnope it's Tyranitar with a Band using Knock Off.

Now, of course, everything in Inheritance is unpredictable, but you can usually at least go "Well, that Gengar isn't going to launch an overwhelming Physical assault out of nowhere to OHKO my Special wall". I'm becoming concerned Illusion takes the unpredictability factor a step too far, allowing someone to more-or-less net a free KO with literally no way to prepare for it.

 

[motherlove]

Hoopa more often than not doesn't run focus blast simply because it inherits from porygon. If you're really worried about it run meloetta or regenvest escavalier (there's probably more I just don't want to think about it yet). Hoopa is also damn easy to kill, even on stall.

Also for protean, ph throh (spedef) is actually a really good wall for most mixed protean. Not saying it walls everything, but the most common drain punch / koff / boltbeam or flamethrower is handled pretty well by throh. I feel like there's always gonna be one pokemon on a team that can handle the used moves. You can't really build a protean mon that will take on everything. True it does require the stall player to play well and scout for moves, but I don't think it's unmanageable.

Also, medicham doesn't need to run any set other than the lucario set. And no, megabro doesn't counter it, all it can do is hope for a burn. Doublade can take a +2 crunch and burn, but has to swith out to not die and team support can bring it back on it's feat.

Out of the lot gyarados seems to be the most retarded.

 

[yoman5]

For what it's worth, this is the team I used back when this meta first got popular and it won a lot of room tours, but sadly the team doesn't work after the more recent bans:

importable

Alakazam @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Psychic
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast
- U-turn

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Body Slam
- Trick
- U-turn

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Toxic Spikes
- U-turn

Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Extreme Speed

Weavile @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Sucker Punch
- Superpower
- Taunt

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 180 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Tailwind
- U-turn

I've tried a number of other offensive mons in the lando slot, but the team synergy isn't there especially because u-turn and good attacking moves are hard to come by combined. The u-turn momentum is how the team won games and with the gale wings ban the team doesn't bait the right checks anymore and has a rough time vs opposing genesect and pinsir. The weavile antilead was particularly good back then as it often baited genesect counter leads which I could anticipate and counter the lead with lando. The random tspikes on the scarfed ttar was to beat the old chansey+suicune balance teams before some of the bans and because beedril's movepool is awful. Ttar basically only needed uturn/koff/pursuit anyway to do its job. Good birdspam check and fantastic trapper for the latis and a good punisher of mew and stall in general.

I haven't yet made a new team for the current meta as I haven't played in a while, but I suspect that it's time to abuse Megagross again with pinsir and maltaria running rampant. Protean latios and torn seem to be two of the best abusers at the moment, and scarftar of various builds is amazing as a pinsir check that can do a lot for your team otherwise. Suicune is suicune, your team better be able to beat it or else. Rapid spin is top tier, and if you're offensive sheer force gengar makes a good spinblocker. That's it for rants for now, hope everyone else enjoys this meta as much as I do.