Manaphy (Revamp) [QC: 2/3] written

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DarkNostalgia

Fading in, fading out, on the edge of paradise
is a Contributor Alumnus
QC: 49 / AM

[OVERVIEW]

Despite Manaphy's adorable facade, it is one of the most capable Pokemon in the entire OU tier, being one of the most prominent wallbreakers and stallbreakers. Tail Glow is Manaphy's trump card, a move that makes it immediately threatening, boosting Manaphy's Special Attack three whole stages in the space of only one turn. With this tool, Manaphy can easily set up on and destroy many common defensive Pokemon, such as Mega Sableye, Mega Scizor, Mandibuzz, Alomomola, Tentacruel, Chansey, Skarmory, Starmie, Heatran, Hippowdon, and Slowbro. Manaphy also has decent all-around bulk allowing it to take on the likes of Mega Metagross, Gliscor, and Keldeo when utilizing a defensive EV spread, and hold its own against defensive Pokemon such as Mega Sableye and Chansey and take a hit from more offensive Pokemon when utilizing a more offensive-inclined EV spread. Manaphy's prowess at breaking down defensive teams and cores is further aided by its wide movepool consisting of many coverage options, including Ice Beam for the likes of Mega Altaria, Latios, and Celebi, Energy Ball for Slowbro, Keldeo, and Azumarill, and Psychic for Toxicroak, Amoonguss, and Mega Venusaur, thus greatly limiting Manaphy's number of viable checks. Hydration is the cream of the crop, working great with Rain Dance, as it gives Manaphy an immunity to status ailments in the rain, and in tandem with Rest, gives Manaphy great longevity. Rain Dance also powers up Manaphy's Water-type STAB attacks, making it capable of feats such as 2HKOing Chansey and Unaware Clefable.

Manaphy, however, possesses quite an average Speed stat, leaving it easily revenge killed by offensive Pokemon such as Mega Manectric, Raikou, Thundurus, Mega Lopunny, Serperior, and Mega Sceptile. Manaphy's Special Attack, when unboosted, also pales in comparison to other offensive behemoths in the tier such as Latios and Gengar. Lastly, despite Manaphy's good coverage, it can't cover the entire tier with two or three coverage moves, meaning Manaphy will always be walled by something no matter what.

[SET]
name: Tail Glow + 3 Attacks
move 1: Tail Glow
move 2: Scald
move 3: Ice Beam / Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Energy Ball / Psychic
item: Leftovers
ability: Hydration
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Tail Glow makes Manaphy immediately threatening, and is the tool that lets Manaphy break past defensive teams with ease. Scald has a nifty 30% chance to burn the foe, which is extremely useful to cripple the likes of Chansey, Unaware Clefable, and Ferrothorn. In particular, Ferrothorn's defensive capabilities get hit hard when burned as its health will get slowly whittled away, particularly with no means of recovery outside of Leech Seed and Leftovers, and its offensive moves will not do as much damage too. Scald also nets a neutral hit on many defensive Pokemon such as Mega Sableye. Ice Beam deals with Grass- and Dragon-types such as Celebi, Amoonguss, Mega Altaria, and Latios. Energy Ball handles bulky Water-types such as Slowbro, Starmie, Rotom-W, and Azumarill looking to resist Manaphy's Scald and Ice Beam. Hidden Power Fire lets Manaphy circumvent Ferrothorn, which normally checks Manaphy. On bulky offensive teams, Hidden Power Fire has additional utility in being able to pressure Mega Scizor, which threatens balance built around Hippowdon. Psychic OHKOes Mega Venusaur when at +3, hits Poison-types and Fighting-types such as Toxicroak and Amoonguss, Keldeo and Conkeldurr, for super effective damage, as well as Water-types such as Suicune, Slowbro, and Azumarill for neutral damage. Shadow Ball can be used as a catch-all move to hit Psychic-types such as Slowbro, Latios, Celebi, Jirachi, and Starmie in only one moveslot, as well as hitting the likes of Rotom-W and Mega Venusaur for neutral damage. In particular, it works well alongside Hidden Power Fire as Shadow Ball sort of compresses the roles of Ice Beam and Energy Ball into one, but is more so team dependent.

Set Details
========

Manaphy is most effective when utilizing maximum Speed EVs and a Timid nature, as with such it Speed ties with opposing Manaphy, Mega Medicham, Mega Gardevoir, both Mega Charizard formes, as well as outspeed Adamant Terrakion, Volcarona running a Modest nature with 252 Speed EVs or a Timid nature with 184 Speed EVs, Jolly Landorus-T, Naive Kyurem-B, and Jolly Excadrill. If you value bulk over Speed, a spread of 96 HP / 252 SpA / 160 Spe is perfectly viable to just outpace Excadrill and anything below, while retaining a bit of bulk to take on the likes of Mega Lopunny more easily, or 164 Speed EVs if using Hidden Power Fire to make up for the lost IV. Leftovers provides much-needed longevity for Manaphy, meaning it can switch into resisted moves such as Scald or the likes of Heatran more easily. Other viable items include Wacan Berry to let Manaphy take on an Electric-type such as Raikou, Mega Manectric, or Thundurus once, Salac Berry to patch up Manaphy's mediocre Speed stat against offensive teams, Lum Berry to allow Manaphy to shrug off status ailments such as Clefable's or Klefki's Thunder Wave, especially against teams lacking a definite answer to Manaphy, and Sitrus Berry to let Manaphy recover a quarter of its health after its health has been halved, which greatly benefits certain offensive teams that play Manaphy more aggressively.

Usage Tips
========

Manaphy fares great against defensive or balanced teams, as the extra coverage options helps it in breaking down its checks, making Manaphy even harder for defensive teams to beat. Against defensive teams, set up on the likes of Mandibuzz, Mega Sableye, and Tentacruel that pose no threat to Manaphy. However keep in mind that without Rain Dance Manaphy can only beat Unaware Clefable and Chansey if they are weakened beforehand. It is obvious that you should eliminate Clefable and weaken Chansey first so that Manaphy can sweep. Manaphy can also hit Clefable or Chansey with Scald on the switch so as to potentially cripple them via a burn. Manaphy can also set up on the likes of Mega Sableye, Mega Slowbro, and Magic Guard Clefable, as Tail Glow allows Manaphy to boost faster than their Calm Mind and then KO them with the appropriate coverage move. Manaphy can be easily revenge killed by offensive Grass- or Electric-type Pokemon such as Serperior and Thundurus, so try not attempt to pull of a sweep with Tail Glow against offensive teams unless the coast is clear. At the start of a match, using Scald is more often than not beneficial to cripple potential checks to Manaphy. If Manaphy is not using Leftovers, try not to reveal what item it has too early - for example if the opponent knows Manaphy is carrying a Wacan Berry, they may play more carefully around it and not using their Electric-type to revenge kill.

Team Options
========

Pursuit support greatly aids Manaphy as it might struggle with Psychic-types such as Celebi, Latios, Latias, Cresselia, and Slowking, making the likes of Bisharp, Mega Metagross, Weavile, and Tyranitar ideal partners. Bisharp has priority Sucker Punch for offensive playstyles, and in return, Manaphy deals with bulky Pokemon such as Mega Scizor, Hippowdon, and Keldeo that Bisharp struggle against. Mega Metagross beats many of Manaphy's checks, such as Ferrothorn, Mega Venusaur, Mega Altaria, and Amoonguss, while in turn Manaphy destroys defensive threats walling Mega Metagross such as Mega Scizor, Slowbro, and Hippowdon. Gothitelle traps and eliminates Mega Venusaur and Ferrothorn, and in a similar vein, Magnezone traps and eliminates Ferrothorn too, as well as checking the likes of Latios.

In terms of defensive synergy, Manaphy needs an answer to Electric- and Grass-types. Answers to Electric-types such as Mega Altaria, Raikou, and Hippowdon are good teammates provided Manaphy lacks Wacan Berry, while answers to Grass-types, mainly Serperior, Mega Venusaur, and Celebi, are appreciated. These include Talonflame, Mega Charizard X, Tornadus-T, Weavile, Mega Aerodactyl, and Mamoswine. In particular, Talonflame and Mega Charizard X appreciate Manaphy's ability to beat Water- and Ground-types. If Energy Ball isn't run, Grass-types such as Celebi and Serperior are good partners thanks to their ability to check Water-types that resist Manaphy's Scald and Ice Beam, and potentially complete Fire-Water-Grass cores. Depending on the coverage Manaphy runs, lures to the various Pokemon not covered are good partners. For example, if Manaphy lacks Psychic, Psychic or Hidden Power Flying Thundurus makes for a good teammate thanks to its ability to beat Mega Venusaur, and if Manaphy lacks Hidden Power Fire, Hidden Power Fire Kyurem-B or Latios are good partners thanks to their ability to beat Ferrothorn. Clefable deals with Assault Vest Tornadus-T, and certain Grass- and Electric-types such as Celebi and Mega Manectric capable of checking Manaphy, as well as providing paralysis support to slow down offensive threats such as Mega Metagross and Mega Lopunny. In turn, Manaphy, if running Hidden Power Fire, can lure in and KO Ferrothorn, and if running Psychic, Mega Venusaur and Amoonguss too.

Mega Lopunny deals with faster offensive Pokemon such as Tornadus-T, Raikou, and Starmie which are a pain for Manaphy to deal with, while Manaphy easily breaks defensive playstyles due to Tail Glow, removing bulky defensive Pokemon such as Slowbro and Hippowdon for Mega Lopunny. Their combined power to defeat the three most common playstyles makes them a top offensive combination. Similarly, Mega Alakazam fares great against fast teams, capable of checking fast Pokemon such as Mega Lopunny and Mega Manectric troubling Manaphy, as well as weather sweepers such as Excadrill and Kingdra. Manaphy then takes down bulky Pokemon, thanks to Tail Glow, such as Clefable and Mega Sableye. Mega Scizor beats Ferrothorn as well as Psychic-types such as Celebi, Latios, Latias, and Cresselia. It also deals with Kyurem-B, Chansey, and Mega Lopunny. Defensive Garchomp sets up Stealth Rock to whittle down switch-ins, as well as checking Electric-types such as Mega Manectric and Raikou and fast offensive threats such as Mega Metagross, Mega Lopunny, Hawlucha, and Gengar. With Multiscale, Dragonite also deals with Electric- and Grass-types such as Mega Manectric and Serperior, and bulky Pokemon such as Tornadus-T, Ferrothorn, Mega Venusaur, and Chansey. After a Dragon Dance it can also eliminate many common Dragon-types such as Kyurem-B, Latios, and Garchomp, while appreciating Manaphy's ability to beat Mega Altaria, Rotom-W, and Slowbro. Mega Gallade has Close Combat or Drain Punch to break past Chansey, Ferrothorn, and Kyurem-B, Zen Headbutt for Mega Venusaur, Amoonguss, and Toxicroak, and Knock Off for bulky Psychic-types such as Celebi, Latios, and Jirachi. In turn, it appreciates Manaphy's ability to break Mega Sableye, Magic Guard Clefable, and Mega Slowbro, as well as deter Talonflame from switching in. Chansey is a problem for non-Rain Dance Manaphy, so Knock Off users, Chansey lures, or strong wallbreakers are good teammates. Examples of lures include Knock Off Clefable and Knock Off Tornadus-T. Due to Scald, Manaphy is capable of potentially crippling the likes of Ferrothorn and Mega Venusaur on the switch. This makes the likes of Mega Altaria, Clefable, and Raikou good partners as they appreciate having their checks weakened.

[SET]
name: Tail Glow + Rain Dance
move 1: Tail Glow
move 2: Rain Dance
move 3: Scald
move 4: Psychic / Energy Ball
item: Leftovers
ability: Hydration
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Tail Glow boosts Manaphy's Special Attack by three stages, making it capable of cutting through defensive teams like a hot knife through butter. Rain Dance further boosts Manaphy's power, allowing it to break past Clefable and Chansey more easily and become immune to status ailments in the rain. Scald has a nifty 30% chance to burn and is Manaphy's strongest STAB move, and its power is augmented even further via Tail Glow and Rain Dance. Psychic allows Manaphy to circumvent Mega Venusaur, Amoonguss, Conkeldurr, Dragalge, Toxicroak, and Keldeo. Using Psychic means Manaphy has an easier time against stall utilizing Mega Sableye + Amoonguss or Mega Venusaur + Heatran cores. Energy Ball hits Water-types such as Slowbro, Suicune, and Rotom-W for super effective damage. It also lets Manaphy beat Calm Mind Slowbro and Suicune one-on-one due to Tail Glow boosting faster than its Calm Mind. Ice Beam deals with Grass- and Dragon-types such as Celebi and Mega Altaria.

Set Details
========

Maximum Speed investment in tandem with a Timid nature allows Manaphy to Speed tie with Jolly Mega Medicham, opposing Manaphy, Mega Gardevoir, Jolly Mega Charizard X, Timid Mega Charizard Y, and Timid Volcarona, and outspeed Adamant Mega Charizard X, Modest Mega Charizard Y, Modest Volcarona or ones running Timid and 184 Speed, Adamant Terrakion, Naive Kyurem-B, and Jolly Landorus-T. The rest of the EVs are put into Special Attack for power. Leftovers is for passive recovery, allowing Manaphy to have an easier time against defensive and balance teams. A bulkier spread with Rest to outpace Bisharp, beat Clefable, and handle Mega Altaria and Mega Metagross better is perfectly viable. An example would be something along the lines of 248 HP / 108 Def / 136 SpA / 16 Spe. The combination of Hydration and Rain Dance means Manaphy is immune to status inside the rain. Modest is an option if you prefer wallbreaking potential over Speed, and when outspeeding Jolly Excadrill and Speed tying with Base 100s isn't necessary. In particular, the combination of a Modest nature, Splash Plate, Rain Dance, and Surf is a viable option to 2HKO Unaware Clefable unboosted.

Usage Tips
========

As this Manaphy variant only has two coverage moves, it lacks the ability to break past a wider realm of defensive Pokemon, so identify any Pokemon that Manaphy cannot beat using its two coverage moves and either weaken it or remove it first prior to attempting a sweep with Manaphy. Use Scald at the start of the game to potentially cripple Manaphy's checks. How you set up Manaphy depends on what the opposing team consists of, as if a Chansey is present, the use of Rain Dance as well as two Tail Glows is necessary to beat it with Scald. Don't reveal what coverage move Manaphy has, as it may come in handy to surprise would-be answers such as Mega Venusaur if running Psychic. If Unaware Clefable is the opposing team's answer to Manaphy don't reveal Rain Dance too early as well. Set up on defensive Pokemon lacking a way to deal a lot of damage to Manaphy such as Mega Sableye, Mega Slowbro, Mandibuzz, and Alomomola. Manaphy is revenge killed easily by offensive threats such as Thundurus, Serperior, and Mega Lopunny. However Manaphy's bulk means in times of need it can take a hit from the above and retaliate, but don't play too aggressively. Weaken Manaphy's checks first so that it can potentially break through them with Scald, depending on what coverage move Manaphy opts for.

Team Options
========

Fast, offensive Pokemon are ideal partners for Manaphy due to their ability to handle offensive teams. These include Mega Alakazam, Mega Lopunny, Tornadus-T, Talonflame, Thundurus, and Mega Sceptile.
Depending on the coverage that Manaphy runs, teammates to cover the weaknesses left are good partners. For example, Energy Ball Manaphy struggles with Grass- and Dragon-types, so Ice-types such as Weavile and Mamoswine are good partners to deal with these. Answers to Grass-types, such as Mega Charizard X, Tornadus-T, and Mega Scizor, are good partners as Manaphy struggles against the likes of Celebi, Mega Venusaur, and Amoonguss if lacking Ice Beam. Answers to Electric-types, such as Mega Charizard X, Mamoswine, Raikou, and Serperior are good teammates as well due to Manaphy's knack for being revenge killed by the likes of Raikou, Mega Manectric, and Thundurus. Pursuit trappers such as Mega Metagross, Bisharp, Tyranitar, and Weavile are good Pokemon to pair up with Manaphy as they can get rid of Psychic-types such as Latios, Latias, Gothitelle, and Celebi. Mega Metagross is a notable partner as it also deals with the Mega Venusaur, Amoonguss, and Keldeo, which without the right coverage Manaphy fails to beat. Magnezone and Gothitelle traps and eliminates Ferrothorn. However, their Hidden Power Fire gets weakened in the rain, so be wary of activating the rain when about to trap Ferrothorn. Jirachi deals with Psychic-types such as Latios, Latias, and Celebi and Grass-types such as Mega Venusaur and Serperior. Thanks to the rain, Mega Venusaur and Serperior's Hidden Power Fire is weakened. Rain abusers and Swift Swim users such as Tornadus-T, Mega Manectric, Raikou, Kabutops, Kingdra, and Mega Swampert appreciate Manaphy's ability to set rain to power up their own attacks. Mega Scizor also deserves a mention for functioning nicely in rain and checking Ferrothorn and numerous Psychic-types such as Latios, Celebi, and Cresselia.

[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Scald
move 3: Rain Dance
move 4: Rest
item: Leftovers
ability: Hydration
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Calm Mind takes an alternate route from Tail Glow, boosting Manaphy's Special Attack and Special Defense slowly to not only make it more powerful but also impervious to special attacks. Scald is Manaphy's main STAB move, chosen for its nifty 30% chance to burn the foe. On a set utilizing mono-Water coverage this is particularly important as the burn means Manaphy can potentially cripple and stall out would-be answers such as Ferrothorn. Rain Dance summons rain, activating Hydration to provide Manaphy with an effective immunity to status ailments. It also powers up Scald. Rest functions very effectively alongside Rain Dance, recovering all of Manaphy's health under rain without needing to put Manaphy to sleep, meaning it is a good check to the likes of Mega Metagross, Keldeo, and Bisharp.

Set Details
========

16 Speed EVs allow Manaphy to outpace Adamant Bisharp, allowing Manaphy to potentially burn it first before taking a Knock Off. The remaining investment are placed into HP and Defense, alongside a Bold nature, to check physical threats such as Mega Lopunny better. Though both 240 HP / 252 Def and 252 HP / 240 Def arrive at the same defensive benchmark, maximum HP investment is chosen to deal with special attackers such as Slowbro and Keldeo slightly better. Leftovers is the chosen item to provide Manaphy with passive recovery, and to make sure it sticks around for longer. It is to be highlighted that Calm Mind Manaphy does have a few advantages over CroCune, such as a better Speed stat, better damage output in general, especially considering Rain Dance, and reliable recovery without having to be rendered useless for two turns (bar Sleep Talk but that's unreliable).

Usage Tips
========

Manaphy can function as a check to the likes of non-Swords Dance Talonflame, Mega Metagross, Mega Aerodactyl, Keldeo, Landorus-T, Gliscor, and Hippowdon, due to the Defense investment. It can switch into and set up Rain Dance and Calm Mind against the above, then use Rest to be able to continuously set up and sweep when low at health. Don't let Manaphy be forced into a position where the opponent can KO it easily, so don't wait until the last minute to use Rest. Manaphy also functions great against defensive teams, being capable of finding opportunities to set up on many common defensive Pokemon such as Slowbro, Alomomola, Mandibuzz, Mega Sableye, Chansey, Clefable, Quagsire, Tyranitar, Hippowdon, Manaphy, as well as specific defensive win-conditions such as Mega Scizor, Keldeo, and Gliscor. Manaphy can also use Calm Mind against offensive teams to tank hits from special attackers such as Latios, Clefable, and Starmie. Try not to use Rest when Rain Dance isn't up, and on the last turn of rain, as Hydration won't activate and will leave Manaphy vulnerable for two whole turns. Remove Grass-, Electric-, and Dragon-types that Manaphy cannot remove by itself. In terms of Dragon-types these particularly include strong physical attackers such as Mega Altaria, Dragonite, and Garchomp.
Team Options
========

Amoonguss is a good defensive partner for Manaphy that appreciates Manaphy's ability to stallbreak, and provides an answer to the majority of Electric- and Grass-types such as Mega Manectric and Celebi walling Manaphy via its typing. The rain Manaphy summons also further increases the defensive synergy between the duo, making Amoonguss less susceptible to Fire-type attacks. Lastly, Amoonguss is also capable of beating Ferrothorn due to having Hidden Power Fire usually. Magnezone and Gothitelle trap and eliminate Ferrothorn via Hidden Power Fire. As an added bonus they can also take down Water-types such as Slowking, Gyarados, and Azumarill resisting Manaphy's mono-Water coverage. Gothitelle can also deal with most Grass-types such as Mega Venusaur and Amoonguss. Generic answers to Electric-types such as Dragon-, Grass-, and Ground-types are ideal partners as well. These include Latios, Ferrothorn, and Hippowdon. Rain setters such as Klefki and Politoed can set up rain in a pinch, activating Hydration and letting Manaphy use Rest without any repercussions. Grass-types such as Serperior, Mega Venusaur, and Celebi check Water- and Electric-types, and in Mega Venusaur's case, opposing Grass-types as well. Manaphy is very susceptible to these super effective attacks as it is running mono-Water coverage.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Specially defensive Manaphy with Scald, Rain Dance, U-turn, and Rest is very effective at beating special attackers such as Heatran, Clefable, Gengar, as well as avoid being trapped by Gothitelle and preserve momentum via U-turn. For sets utilizing Tail Glow, Sitrus Berry and Salac Berry are viable options, with the former recovering a quarter of Manaphy's health in a pinch, meaning it can take a hit from an offensive Pokemon such as Mega Lopunny more easily, and the latter letting Manaphy patch up its average Speed, especially against offensive teams. Knock Off cripples Chansey, Ferrothorn, and Clefable on the switch, and combined with a defensive spread Manaphy can perform the role of a good defensive utility Pokemon. Heart Swap can allow Manaphy to steal boosts from the likes of Calm Mind Mega Sableye, Calm Mind Clefable, and Agility Mega Metagross, but is extremely dependent on the foe. Heal Bell provides good clerical support especially when paired up with offensive Pokemon such as Bisharp and Mega Lopunny that hate status. Rindo Berry negates Manaphy's weakness to Grass-type moves, albeit for only one turn, allowing it to turn the tables on the likes of Serperior and Mega Sceptile. Substitute allows Manaphy to ease setup and prediction, particularly against offensive teams. Manaphy can also use it to cripple the likes of Mega Venusaur and Ferrothorn with Scald while behind the Substitute. Lastly, Dazzling Gleam hits Kyurem-B and Kingdra, but other than that does not have many notable targets, and losing a coverage option such as Energy Ball or Ice Beam is usually not worth it.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Fast Offensive Pokemon**: Due to Manaphy's average Speed, fast offensive Pokemon such as Mega Lopunny, Hawlucha, Gengar, Tornadus-T, Alakazam, Mega Alakazam, and Mega Medicham can easily revenge kill Manaphy.

**Grass-types**: Mega Sceptile, Celebi, Serperior, Shaymin, and Tangrowth check non-Ice Beam Manaphy very well as they all resist Manaphy's main STAB move, Scald. Amoonguss and Mega Venusaur check non-Ice Beam and non-Psychic variants of Manaphy, while Ferrothorn beats non-Hidden Power Fire Manaphy. In return they can all retaliate with their own Grass-type STAB move.

**Electric-types**: Though they cannot directly switch in, Electric-types such as Mega Manectric, Raikou, Thundurus, and Rotom-W can safely revenge kill Manaphy as they are all faster than Manaphy, save for Rotom-W. Rotom-W loses to Energy Ball Manaphy, however.

**Dragon-types**: Being resistant to Scald, and being able to counter non-Ice Beam variants of Manaphy, various Dragon-types such as Latios, Mega Altaria, Latias, Kyurem-B, Dragalge, Dragonite, and Kingdra are great answers to Manaphy. Among them, Pokemon neutral to Ice Beam, such as Kingdra and Kyurem-B, are even better answers. However, none of these Pokemon enjoy switching into Scald as the burns cripple them and whittle their health slowly.

**Unaware Clefable**: Unaware Clefable counters Manaphy as Scald fails to 2HKO even after Stealth Rock and burn damage. With Special Defense investment and a Calm nature it can even avoid the 2HKO from rain-boosted Scald. Clefable can then use Manaphy as setup fodder for Calm Mind, cripple Manaphy with Thunder Wave, or pass Wishes. However, it can be overwhelmed by Splash Plate Manaphy.
 
Last edited:

p2

Banned deucer.
I'd actually make Psychic the first or second slash for TG + RD. It's easily one of the best moves when you want to use Manaphy for stallbreaking as you pretty much beat nearly every common threat on balance or stall and Ice Beam just doesn't cut it if you need Manaphy to beat Venu.
 

SketchUp

Don't let your memes be dreams
Rest deserves more than a small mention on the Tail Glow Rain Dance set, it is way better than Ice Beam and I'd also use it more often than Energy Ball simply because it helps you to break pokemon like Chansey 100% of the time. Psychic / Rest / Energy Ball is how I would slash it.
I would also add Sitrus Berry to OO for Tail Glow sets only
 

DarkNostalgia

Fading in, fading out, on the edge of paradise
is a Contributor Alumnus
I'm personally not a fan of Psychic just because the coverage is kinda limited when you consider Mega Venusaur is pretty much the sole target. Toxicroak + Amoonguss gets dealt with via Ice Beam anyway. I guess it's a catch-all move and I'm open to it being slashed a little bit higher up. Rest seems cool but I haven't used it extensively, as I more often than not go with Ice Beam / Energy Ball on Rain Dance sets. TDK and Tokyo Tom sorry for the tag but what are your opinions on this?

Also I'll finish this soon I promise.
 

Albacore

sludge bomb is better than sludge wave
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
bunch of suggestions :

I'd mention that one of Manaphy's main cons is that it can't really cover the entire tier in 3 coverage moves, and no matter what it runs, it's going to be walled by something. Though it has a lot of options as you mention, there's no perfect combination of them that's going to cover everything

Mention Azumarill, Keldeo, and opposing Manaphy as important targets of Energy ball, as well as the fact that Psychic also hits Keldeo.

I'd actually move up Shadow Ball to Set Details on the TG 3 Attacks set since it's actually a pretty legitimate option on that set, and specify that it should be used over Ice Beam and alongside Psychic or HP Fire as a way to hit Latios, Celebi, Starmie and Slowbro in a single moveslot (as well as gaining good neutral coverage in general), however it's weaker than Ice Beam so a poorer option overall.

Mention in team options Pokemon which appreciate Manaphy's ability to force out and put pressure on Water- and Ground-types. Also maybe mention checks to Grass-types (Serperior and Venusaur mainly) which can be annoying for Manaphy depending on what it runs (though this is probably more appropriate for the RD set which is even weaker to Grass-types since it doens't necessarily run Ice Beam). Talonflame and XZard (Fire types in general actually) combine these 2 traits so they are particularly good partners.

I'd also mention stuff which benefits from Manaphy's ability to either burn or outright lure common switchins to it (specifically, Ferrothorn and Venusaur), like Mega Altaria, or Faries in general actually. Pokemon that can lure the answers to whatever Manaphy set you're running (like Psychic Thundurus for Venu if no Psychic / HP Fire Latis for Ferro if no HP Fire / HP Electric Keldeo for bulky Waters if no Energy Ball) help as well.

If Energy Ball isn't run, Grass-types in general are great partners since they can consistently take care of Water-types, can check certain Electric types and complete obvious FWG cores which Manaphy works great on. Also Psychic and HP Fire both lure things that certain Grass-types want gone from the picture.
Most of this applies to Electrics too btw (Raikou in particular), and they benefit from Manaphy's ability to set up on bulky Grounds in addition to that, though they are less consistent at handling bulky Water-types due to often lacking recovery and obviously can't complete FWG cores.

Also, this may be just me, but I would slash HP Fire with Ice Beam as well as Energy Ball, though you lose out on Latis and Dragonite, and deal less damage to Serperior and Celebi, you gain the ability to hit Water-types in general which for some teams is more important.

When you talk about Knock Off users to weaken Chansey, you should probably mention less obvious ones like Clefable, Serperior and Alakazam which it may want to switch into, since no one is keeping Chansey in on Bisharp or Azumarill.

Oh yeah, and mention Splash Plate in items, it's a decent enough option and the power increase lets you break weakened Chansey and Unaware Clefable much more easily provided it gets a Scald burn.
 
Last edited:

p2

Banned deucer.
not qc, but i went through and made a bunch of comments in bold, mainly about TG + RD
[OVERVIEW]

  • One of the best Pokemon in the tier capable of dismantling entire balance or defensive teams.
  • Tail Glow makes Manaphy immediately threatening, boosting its Special Attack three whole stages in the space of only one turn, allowing it to set up on and destroy many common defensive Pokemon, such as Mega Sableye, Mega Scizor, Chansey, and Slowbro.
  • Decent bulk allowing Manaphy take on the likes of Mega Lopunny, Mega Metagross, and Keldeo when utilizing a defensive EV spread, and hold its own against defensive Pokemon such as Mega Sableye and take a hit or two from more offensive Pokemon when using an offensive EV spread.
  • Wide movepool consisting of many coverage options, including Ice Beam for the likes of Mega Altaria and Celebi, Energy Ball for Slowbro and Azumarill, and Psychic for Toxicroak and Mega Venusaur, greatly limiting its viable checks.
  • Hydration works great with Rain Dance, as it gives Manaphy an immunity to status ailments in the rain, and in tandem with Rest, gives Manaphy great longevity. Rain Dance also powers up Manaphy's Water-type STAB attacks, making it capable of feats such as 2HKOing Chansey and Unaware Clefable.
  • Speed stat is mediocre, leaving it easily revenge killed by the likes of Mega Manectric, Raikou, Mega Lopunny, Garchomp, Keldeo, and Latios. 100 speed isn't mediocre, call it average instead
  • Weak when unboosted.
  • Can't cover the entire tier with two or three coverage moves, meaning Manaphy will always be walled by something no matter what.

[SET]
name: Tail Glow + 3 Attacks
move 1: Tail Glow
move 2: Scald
move 3: Ice Beam / Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Energy Ball / Hidden Power Fire / Psychic
item: Leftovers
ability: Hydration
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

  • Tail Glow makes Manaphy immediately threatening, and is the tool that lets Manaphy break past defensive teams with ease.
  • Scald has a nifty 30% chance to burn the foe, which is extremely useful to cripple the likes of Chansey, Unaware Clefable, and Breloom. It also nets a neutral hit on many defensive Pokemon such as Mega Sableye.
  • Ice Beam deals with Grass- and Dragon-types such as Celebi, Amoonguss, Mega Altaria, and Latios.
  • Energy Ball handles bulky Water-types such as Slowbro, Starmie, and Azumarill looking to resist Manaphy's Scald and Ice Beam.
  • Hidden Power Fire lets Manaphy circumvent Ferrothorn, which normally counters Manaphy.
  • Psychic OHKOes Mega Venusaur when at +3, as well as hitting Poison-types such as Toxicroak and Amoonguss, and Fighting-types such as Keldeo and Conkeldurr for super effective damage and Water-types such as Suicune for neutral damage.
  • Shadow Ball could be used as a catch-all move to hit Psychic-types such as Slowbro, Latios, Celebi, Jirachi, and Starmie in only one moveslot, as well as hitting the likes of Rotom-W and Mega Venusaur for neutral damage.

Set Details
========

  • 252 Spe + Timid to tie with other Manaphy, Mega Medicham, Timid Celebi, and Mega Charizard X/Y, as well as outspeed Adamant Terrakion, Volcarona, Jolly Landorus-T, and unboosted Mega Sharpedo.
  • If you value bulk > Speed go with 96 HP / 252 SpA / 160 Spe to outpace Excadrill while retaining a bit of bulk to take on the likes of Mega Lopunny more easily, or 164 Speed if using Hidden Power Fire to make up for the lost IV.
  • Leftovers for longevity, really important so Manaphy doesn't cave in so easily to offensive pressure.
  • Modest + Surf is a viable option to 2HKO Chansey and Unaware Clefable.
  • Other viable items include Wacan Berry, which lets Manaphy take on an Electric-type such as Raikou or Thundurus once, Salac Berry to patch up Manaphy's mediocre Speed stat against offensive teams, Lum Berry to allow Manaphy to shrug off status ailments and sweep more easily, and Splash Plate to power up Scald giving Manaphy a chance to 2HKO Unaware Clefable and Chansey. I would remove Splash Plate from this set as it lacks RD, meaning you wont be able to beat the pink blobs

Usage Tips
========

  • Does great against defensive teams.
  • Extra coverage > Tail Glow + Rain Dance helps in it breaking down its checks, making Manaphy even harder for defensive teams to check.
  • Against defensive teams set up on the likes of Mandibuzz, Mega Sableye, and Tentacruel that pose no threat to Manaphy. However keep in mind that without Rain Dance Manaphy can only beat Unaware Clefable and Chansey if they are weakened beforehand.
  • Obviously eliminate Clefable and weaken Chansey first so that Manaphy can sweep. Manaphy can also hit Clefable or Chansey with Scald on the switch so as to potentially cripple them via a burn.
  • Manaphy can also set up on the likes of Mega Sableye, Mega Slowbro, and Magic Guard Clefable, as Tail Glow allows Manaphy to boost faster than their Calm Mind and then KO them with the appropriate coverage move.
  • Manaphy can be easily revenge killed by offensive Grass- or Electric-type Pokemon such as Serperior and Thundurus, so try not attempt to pull of a sweep with Tail Glow against offensive teams unless the coast is clear. At the start of a match, using Scald is more often than not beneficial to cripple potential checks to Manaphy.
  • Has decent bulk so it can take a hit or even two from the likes of Mega Lopunny, Landorus-T, and Mega Metagross if needed be - for example if in the middle of a sweep at near-to-full health.
  • If Manaphy is not using Leftovers, try not to reveal what item it has too early - for example if the opponent knows Manaphy is carrying a Wacan Berry they may play more carefully around it and not using their Electric-type to revenge kill.

Team Options
========

  • Mega Lopunny deals with faster offensive Pokemon such as Tornadus-T, Raikou, and Starmie which are a pain for Manaphy to deal with, while Manaphy easily breaks defensive playstyles due to Tail Glow, removing bulky defensive Pokemon such as Slowbro and Hippowdon for Mega Lopunny. Their combined power to defeat the three most common playstyles makes them a great pair.
  • Bisharp beats Unaware Clefable and has priority Sucker Punch for offensive playstyles. It also provides Pursuit support to check bulky Psychic-types such as Celebi and Latios should Manaphy lack Ice Beam. In return, Manaphy deals with bulky Pokemon such as Mega Scizor and Keldeo that Bisharp struggle against. mention that pursuit also beats gothitelle which is manaphy's best defensive "counter"
  • Mega Alakazam fares great against fast teams, capable of checking fast Pokemon such as Mega Lopunny and Mega Manectric troubling Manaphy, as well as weather sweepers such as Excadrill and Kingdra. Manaphy then takes down bulky Pokemon thanks to Tail Glow such as Clefable and Mega Sableye.
  • Mega Metagross beats Manaphy checks such as Ferrothorn, Mega Venusaur, and Amoonguss, can Pursuit trap bulky Psychic-types such as Celebi, Latias, and Latios, while in turn Manaphy destroys defensive threats walling Mega Metagross such as Mega Scizor, Slowbro, and Hippowdon.
  • Gothitelle traps and eliminates Mega Venusaur and Ferrothorn.
  • Magnezone traps and eliminates Ferrothorn too as well as checking the likes of Latios.
  • Answers to Electric-types such as Mega Altaria, Raikou, and Hippowdon are good teammates provided Manaphy lacks Wacan Berry.
  • Answers to Grass-types, mainly Serperior, Mega Venusaur, and Celebi, are appreciated. These include Talonflame, Mega Charizard X, and Mamoswine. In particular, Talonflame and Mega Charizard X appreciate Manaphy's ability to beat Water- and Ground-types.
  • Chansey is a problem for Manaphy, so Knock Off users, Chansey lures, or strong wallbreakers are good teammates. Examples of lures include Knock Off Clefable and Knock Off Tornadus-T.
  • Due to Scald, Manaphy is capable of potentially crippling the likes of Ferrothorn and Mega Venusaur on the switch. This makes the likes of Mega Altaria, Clefable, and Raikou good partners as they appreciate having their checks weakened.
  • Depending on the coverage Manaphy runs, lures to the various Pokemon not covered are good partners. For example, if Manaphy lacks Psychic, Psychic or Hidden Power Flying Thundurus makes for a good teammate thanks to its ability to beat Mega Venusaur, and if Manaphy lacks Hidden Power Fire, Hidden Power Fire Kyurem-B or Latios are good partners thanks to their ability to beat Ferrothorn.
  • If Energy Ball isn't run, Grass-types such as Celebi and Serperior are good partners thanks to their ability to check Water-types to potentially complete Fire-Water-Grass cores.

[SET]
name: Tail Glow + Rain Dance
move 1: Tail Glow
move 2: Rain Dance
move 3: Scald
move 4: Energy Ball / Rest / Psychic I still think Psychic should be the first option here then it should be Eball / Rest. Psychic is necessary to break Sableye+Amoonguss Stall and Venusaur Stall, which are way more common than Suicune/MegaBro stall. You already do 65% to rotom-w with +3 psychic and that's one of the easiest mons in the tier to wear down so I really don't think Rotom is a major concern.
item: Leftovers
ability: Hydration
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

  • Tail Glow boosts Manaphy's Special Attack by three stages, making it capable of achieving many KOs.
  • Rain Dance further boosts Manaphy's power, allowing it to break past Clefable and Chansey more easily and become immune to status ailments in the rain.
  • Scald has a nifty 30% chance to burn and is Manaphy's strongest STAB move, and its power is augmented even further via Tail Glow and Rain Dance.
  • Energy Ball hits Water-types such as Slowbro, Suicune, and Rotom-W for super effective damage. It also lets Manaphy beat Calm Mind Slowbro one-on-one due to Tail Glow boosting faster than its Calm Mind.
  • Rest lets Manaphy recover all of its health under the rain, meaning it can sweep more easily without having to worry about being worn down too much. The longevity it provides means Manaphy can continually hammer away at defensive Pokemon such as Cresselia and Chansey without being KOed, but also means Manaphy is restricted to only Water-type coverage, making many Water-, Grass-, and Dragon-types capable of walling it. I wouldn't say it gets walled because you beat Ferro if you burn it, you beat most water types outside of like Suicune and no Dragons can wall you easily unless its some new meta shit like Sdef Alt, and even then, that isn't taking +6 Scalds in the rain
  • Psychic allows Manaphy to circumvent Mega Venusaur, but has poorer coverage compared with Energy Ball or Ice Beam. mention toxicroak, keldeo, amoonguss, conkeldurr, and mention that is has solid neutral coverage alongside scald (you do 50% with +3 Scald to the likes of Hydreigon, so its not a huge problem)
  • Ice Beam deals with Grass- and Dragon-types such as Celebi and Mega Altaria. I don't like Ice Beam + RD at all. It's pretty shit tbh and the only thing you're really hitting is Celebi and you lose out on Venu Stall / Balance.

Set Details
========

  • Max Speed + Timid to tie with other Manaphy, Mega Medicham, Timid Celebi, and Mega Charizard X/Y, as well as outspeed Adamant Terrakion, Volcarona, Jolly Landorus-T, and unboosted Mega Sharpedo.
  • Rest in Special Attack.
  • Leftovers for passive recovery, allowing Manaphy to have an easier time against balance.
  • A bulkier spread with Rest to outpace Bisharp, beat Clefable, and handle Mega Altaria and Mega Metagross. Something along the lines of 248 HP / 108 Def / 136 SpA / 16 Spe.
  • Hydration + Rain Dance means Manaphy is immune to status inside the rain. Also gives reliable recovery when combined with Rest.
  • Mention splash plate in here + Modest, dont mention surf though as the scald burn chance is too good to give up

Usage Tips
========

  • Only has two coverage moves, or one if you opt for Rest, so identify any Pokemon that Manaphy cannot beat using its two coverage moves and either weaken it or remove it first prior to attempting a sweep with Manaphy.
  • Use Scald at the start of the game to potentially cripple Manaphy's checks.
  • Depends on what the opposing team consists of - if a Chansey is present, the use of Rain Dance as well as two Tail Glows is necessary to beat it with Scald.
  • Don't reveal what coverage move Manaphy has, as it may come in handy to surprise would-be answers such as Mega Venusaur if running Psychic. If Unaware Clefable is the opposing team's answer to Manaphy don't reveal Rain Dance too early as well.
  • Set up on defensive Pokemon lacking a way to deal a lot of damage to Manaphy such as Chansey if running Rest, Mega Sableye, Mega Slowbro, Mandibuzz, and Alomomola.
  • Having Rest allows for more aggressive play, for example directly switching into and setting up on Chansey, as the reliable recovery means Manaphy can take four Seismic Tosses, recover all of that damage off, and continue setting up.
  • Is revenge killed easily by offensive threats such as Choice Scarf Landorus-T, Serperior, and Mega Lopunny. However Manaphy's bulk means in times of need it can take a hit from the above and retaliate. Remove Lando-T, it does 61% max, just replace it with offensive electrics imo
  • crucial thing here - make sure never to rest when rain is on its last turn as the rain goes away before Hydration activates.
  • mention to be wary of Gothitelle too, Goth is stalls best "counter" to mana and trying to lure it out and pursuit it with something else is one of the best ways to beat it, or force it to trick the scarf onto something else, eg. CM Clefable.
Team Options
========

  • Fast, offensive Pokemon are ideal partners for Manaphy due to their ability to handle offensive teams. These include Mega Alakazam, Mega Lopunny, Tornadus-T, Talonflame, and Mega Sceptile. Thundurus can slow down stuff with Twave and also potentially lure out mons such as Venu with Psychic / HP Flying
  • Depending on the coverage that Manaphy runs, teammates to cover the weaknesses left are good partners. For example, Energy Ball Manaphy struggles with Grass- and Dragon-types, so Ice-types such as Weavile and Mamoswine are good partners to deal with these.
  • Answers to Grass-types, such as Mega Charizard X, Tornadus-T, and Mega Scizor, are good partners as Manaphy struggles against the likes of Celebi, Mega Venusaur, and Amoonguss if lacking Ice Beam.
  • Answers to Electric-types, such as Mega Charizard X, Mamoswine, Raikou, and Serperior are good teammates as well due to Manaphy's knack for being revenge killed by the likes of Raikou, Mega Manectric, and Thundurus. i wouldn't call serp an answer for electric types
  • Pursuit trappers such as Mega Metagross, Bisharp, Tyranitar, and Weavile are good Pokemon to pair up with Manaphy as they can get rid of Psychic-types such as Latios, Latias, and Celebi. Mega Metagross is a notable partner as it also deals with the Mega Venusaur, Amoonguss, and Keldeo, which without the right coverage Manaphy fails to beat. they also trap gothitelle
  • Magnezone and Gothitelle traps and eliminates Ferrothorn. However, their Hidden Power Fire gets weakened in the rain.
  • Rain abusers and Swift Swim users such as Tornadus-T, Mega Manectric, Raikou, Mega Scizor, Kabutops, Kingdra, and Mega Swampert appreciate Manaphy's ability to set rain to power up their own attacks. idk if i'd mention manec+raikou here as rain abuers, if i'm running mana + an electric, I really wouldn't want to use Thunder considering its only 5 turns and it's not even dedicated rain support like Poli and you struggle to set up rain against offense.

[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Scald
move 3: Rain Dance
move 4: Rest
item: Leftovers
ability: Hydration
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

  • Calm Mind takes an alternate route from Tail Glow, boosting Manaphy's Special Attack and Special Defense slowly to not only make it more powerful but also impervious to special attacks.
  • Scald is Manaphy's main STAB move, chosen for its nifty 30% chance to burn the foe.
  • Rain Dance summons rain, activating Hydration to provide Manaphy with an effective immunity to status ailments. It also powers up Scald.
  • Rest functions very effectively alongside Rain Dance, recovering all of Manaphy's health under rain without needing to put Manaphy to sleep, meaning it is a good check to the likes of Mega Metagross, Mega Lopunny, and Bisharp.

Set Details
========

  • 16 Speed EVs allow Manaphy to outpace Adamant, maximum Speed Bisharp, allowing Manaphy to potentially burn it first before taking a Knock Off.
  • The remaining investment are placed into HP and Defense, alongside a Bold nature, to check physical threats such as Mega Lopunny better.
  • Leftovers is the chosen item to provide Manaphy with passive recovery, to make sure it sticks around for longer.

Usage Tips
========

  • Manaphy can function as a check to the likes of non-Swords Dance Talonflame, Mega Metagross, Mega Lopunny, Mega Aerodactyl, Keldeo, Landorus-T, Gliscor, and Hippowdon, due to the Defense investment.
  • It can switch into and set up Rain Dance and Calm Mind against the above, then use Rest to be able to continuously set up and sweep when low at health.
  • Don't let Manaphy be forced into a position where the opponent can KO it easily. Don't wait until the last minute to use Rest.
  • Functions great against defensive teams. Can set up on many common defensive Pokemon such as Slowbro, Alomomola, Mandibuzz, Mega Sableye, Chansey, Clefable, Quagsire, Tyranitar, Hippowdon, Manaphy, as well as specific defensive win-conditions such as Mega Scizor, Keldeo, and Gliscor.
  • Can also use Calm Mind against offensive teams to tank hits from special attackers such as Latios, Clefable, and Starmie.
  • Try not to use Rest when Rain Dance isn't up as it leaves Manaphy vulnerable for two whole turns. also mention never to sleep on the last turn of rain
  • Remove Grass-, Electric-, and Dragon-types that Manaphy cannot remove by itself. In terms of Dragon-types these particularly include strong physical attackers such as Mega Altaria, Dragonite, and Garchomp.

Team Options
========

  • Amoonguss is a good defensive partner for Manaphy that appreciates Manaphy's ability to stallbreak, and provides an answer to the majority of Electric- and Grass-types such as Mega Manectric and Celebi walling Manaphy via its typing. The rain Manaphy summons also further increases the defensive synergy between the duo, making Amoonguss less susceptible to Fire-type attacks. Lastly, Amoonguss is also capable of beating Ferrothorn due to having Hidden Power Fire usually.
  • Magnezone and Gothitelle trap and eliminate Ferrothorn via Hidden Power Fire. As an added bonus they can also take down Water-types such as Slowking, Gyarados, and Azumarill resisting Manaphy's mono-Water coverage. Gothitelle can also deal with most Grass-types such as Mega Venusaur and Amoonguss.
  • Generic answers to Electric-types such as Dragon-, Grass-, and Ground-types. These include Latios, Ferrothorn, and Hippowdon.
  • Rain setters such as Klefki and Politoed can set rain in a pinch, activating Hydration and letting Manaphy use Rest without any repercussions.
  • Grass-types such as Serperior, Mega Venusaur, and Celebi check Water- and Electric-types, and in Mega Venusaur's case, opposing Grass-types as well. Manaphy is very susceptible to these super effective attacks as it is running mono-Water coverage.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

  • SpDef Manaphy with Scald, Rain Dance, U-turn, and Rest to beat special attackers such as Heatran and Gengar, avoid being trapped by Gothitelle, and also preserve momentum.
  • Shadow Ball
  • Splash Plate these 2 had a mention in moves / set details, so might as well remove them from here
  • Sitrus Berry for Tail Glow sets
  • Knock Off
  • Heart Swap
  • Heal Bell
  • Rindo Berry
  • Substitute
  • Salac Berry deserves a mention too, allowing Mana to outspeed faster offensive checks such as kou/serp/latis/manec/lop etc, though stuff like sand and priority can put it on a very short timer

Checks and Counters
===================

**Fast Offensive Pokemon**: Due to Manaphy's mediocre Speed, fast offensive Pokemon such as Mega Lopunny, Mega Metagross, Talonflame, Hawlucha, Gengar, Tornadus-T, Alakazam, and Mega Medicham can easily revenge kill Manaphy. mentioned this earlier, average > mediocre.

**Grass-types**: Mega Sceptile, Celebi, Serperior, and Tangrowth check non-Ice Beam Manaphy very well as they all resist Manaphy's main STAB move, Scald. Amoonguss and Mega Venusaur check non-Ice Beam and non-Psychic variants of Manaphy, while Ferrothorn beats non-Hidden Power Fire Manaphy. In return they can all retaliate with their own Grass-type STAB move. mention shaymin here too, speed ties and ohkos with seed flare, but risks ice beam

**Electric-types**: Though they cannot directly switch in, Electric-types such as Mega Manectric, Raikou, Thundurus, and Rotom-W can safely revenge kill Manaphy as they are all faster than Manaphy, save for Rotom-W. Rotom-W loses to Energy Ball Manaphy, however.

**Dragon-types**: Being resistant to Scald, and being able to counter non-Ice Beam variants of Manaphy, various Dragon-types such as Latios, Mega Altaria, Latias, Kyurem-B, Dragalge, Haxorus, Dragonite, and Kingdra are great answers to Manaphy. Among them, Pokemon neutral to Ice Beam, such as Kingdra and Dragonite, are even better answers. However, none of these Pokemon enjoy switching into Scald as the burns cripple them and whittle their health slowly. Dragonite isn't neutral to ice beam, i assume you meant Kyu-B here.

**Unaware Clefable**: Unaware Clefable counters Manaphy as Scald fails to 2HKO even after Stealth Rock and burn damage. With Special Defense investment and a Calm nature it can even avoid the 2HKO from rain-boosted Scald. Clefable can then use Manaphy as setup fodder for Calm Mind, cripple Manaphy with Thunder Wave, or pass Wishes. mention that it can be overwhelmed by splash plate, which is the main reason to even run the item in the first place.
 

DarkNostalgia

Fading in, fading out, on the edge of paradise
is a Contributor Alumnus
did.

i mentioned salac in set details for tg + 3 attacks already, dw. changed tg+rd to psychic being the first slash (though I still don't like it but eh).
 

p2

Banned deucer.
did.

i mentioned salac in set details for tg + 3 attacks already, dw. changed tg+rd to psychic being the first slash (though I still don't like it but eh).
well from what I've used, I find Psychic to be its best option. but I suppose it's up to QC
 
it's me, qc-kun, doing my first super-official ou check


kinda a nitpick on the overview, but i don't feel entirely confident highlighting m-lop as a 'mon defensively ev'ed manaphy intend to handle; hjk is swinging for ballpark 40-45%, putting it in 2hko range after sr already, and when compounded by the fact that you'll be both relying heavily on scald burning to respond, and it needs 2 turns to set up its recovery, many factors tend to favour lopunny in the standard exchange. otherwise, this seems to cover most bases nicely.

as for the tg three atks set, i don't like the implications set by hp fire in the final slash; to be put frankly, fire / water / ice coverage is not of significant enough implications to warrant main set slashes, and while that is not to say it is without use, it is best to relegate that to a mention in moves instead. loom seems out-of place as a mention here, given that neutralizing physical attackers is hardly in line w/manaphy's primary functions, and under normal circumstances, it is far more prone to having psychic and / or ib with which to pop it off after limited to no prior damage. i would much rather see a mention of something like ferrothorn here, as not only are its defensive capabilities stunted significantly due to burns (even moreso than the latter two, by merit of being a physical attacker), but it also far less likely that you are packing apt coverage for it. speaking of hp fire, it should be given heavy mention that, in the context of more bulky-offense orchestrated teams, hp fire provides secondary utility in better suppressing m-scizor, who otherwise proves problematic for prototypical hippo balances. furthermore, i think it safe to verify that shadow ball is being used almost exclusively in tandem with hp fire, as its accommodative nature is almost exclusively set for that particular tech (perhaps someone else has had success w/shadow ball + alt coverage, but i have yet to observe this x_x).

i'm not sure if "not caving to offensive pressure" is the most apt way to explain leftovers on this set; it suggests a primarily defensive role, which is non-conducive for obvious enough reasons. leftovers is mostly a mean to extend longevity as what is basically the hybridization of a "breaker" (- limitless) and a traditional bulky water, that wants to have the resilience to switch into a scald here or there, maybe a scarftran, not get chipped away by sand / lo, etc. it's a pokemon with enough staying power to make significant gains by running leftovers, and it allows it to play into bulky waters with some level of 'safety' when need be. in regards to the modest nature + surf point, i believe you forget to mention that it requires splash plate to ensure these ko's, so i'd make note of that as well. lum points should also be altered a bit; the draws of this item are a.not getting twaved by clef (and / or other twave 'mons) and b.feigning wacan as to deter electrics from coming in as readily. playing into scald better is also nice, but if it were for that alone, i'd likely use leftovers regardless, given it will have more net gain in most circumstances (well, going off the assumption that scald burns 30% of the time, xd). sitrus berry also deserves mention here; the immediate gain to be observed from it is very useful in application, and befits actually quite a few builds that might seek to play manaphy more aggressively.

some of the teammates mentioned here bother me, as they suggest things like unaware clef being threatened by bish b.c it will stay in on it and just fold to iron head, which i don't see as realistic. some of the organization could be a bit more clean-cut as well, just for the sake of the reader. were i to organize this, i would be highlighting a.pursuit support (latis, conventional fast electrics, etc. are all rather pursuit-weak, ttar / bish / weavile all bait keld to take damage to better facilitate manaphy, etc.), defensive support (your ferros, torn, etc.), and stuff that gets facilitated by manaphy playing as a breaker (zam / m-alt / clef + hp fire manaphy shreds, psychic manaphy + lighter electrics, etc.) and vice-versa, grouped together for the sake of convenience.

i think most of qc has agreed that we would rather not have rest mentioned at all on the tg + rd set, since it ultimately leads to it being played as a faster, frail cm + rd, which is meh. it disallows manaphy from playing as recklessly into chansey / clef, but this set does have the ability to break both without it, and it encourages players to play it as a bulky water, which it doesn't really do well (again, lending itself to the comparison of being just a poor man's rd + cm under normal circumstances).

the cm + rd set should really be highlighting this set's selling points over cune here, since the latter is a lot more broad in its application at the best of times, and its distinct enough competition to the point where it should have express mentions. so, ya know, speed, better dmg output (both from +0 alone and w/rain support), and the ability to regulate recovery a bit better should get highlighted here imo.

but, uh, yeah, i think i mentioned everything i wanted to, and i trust me qc senpai to add in anything i missed :3

1/3
 
Shadow Ball deserves a mention because with Scald, Manaphy has neutral coverage vs everything bar things like Hydreigon and Shiftry (lol). In addition, it is its strongest move vs Alakazam, Gothitelle, and Mega Gardevoir. Actually, vs Garde it has a 65% chance to 2hko after Rocks, while Scald cannot.
 

AM

is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
LCPL Champion
DarkNostalgia tag me for second QC check when ready. Also Laurel Shadow Ball is mentioned already.
 

DarkNostalgia

Fading in, fading out, on the edge of paradise
is a Contributor Alumnus
Pretty sure I got everything! Let me know if I misinterpreted your first sentence though. AM you're up.
 

AM

is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
LCPL Champion
Ok
[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
  • Hidden Power Fire lets Manaphy circumvent Ferrothorn, which normally counters Manaphy. On bulky offensive teams, Hidden Power Fire has additional utility in being able to pressure Mega Scizor, which threatens balance built around Hippowdon.
By no means of the definitions of a counter will I ever utilize Ferrothorn under a role as a counter to Manaphy, not by a long shot. Check is a better term to use here, as I've seen enough Ferrothorns succumb to Scald burns before ever beating a Manaphy 1v1.
  • Shadow Ball could be used as a catch-all move to hit Psychic-types such as Slowbro, Latios, Celebi, Jirachi, and Starmie in only one moveslot, as well as hitting the likes of Rotom-W and Mega Venusaur for neutral damage, but should only be used alongside Hidden Power Fire as Shadow Ball sort of compresses the roles of Ice Beam and Energy ball into one.
Implying HP Fire is always a necessity with Shadow Ball is weird when it's always going to be a team dependent aspect anyways. Scald, Psychic, Shadow Ball is one example of a set I've had lots of success with on a Mega Venusaur balance squad. Of course HP Fire is justified to for the points mentioned already but I think for each move I wouldn't put so much emphasis on necessity in regards to the combination of moves more so emphasize that the combination needs to be catered to team needs.

Set Details
========
  • 252 Spe + Timid to tie with other Manaphy, Mega Medicham, Timid Celebi, and Mega Charizard X/Y, as well as outspeed Adamant Terrakion, Volcarona, Jolly Landorus-T, and unboosted Mega Sharpedo.
The only Timid Celebi I've seen are Scarf ones so I don't think this is a great mention, Neutral speed Volcarona is a travesty so mention it's for that specifically and Mega Sharpedo is sort of pretty niche to be mentioning it as a focal point. Kyurem-B is a more appropriate mention for Timid as worst case scenario it can hit a weakened one. Manaphy, Charizards, Kyurem-B, Landorus-T, Volcarona, Mega Gardevoir I feel are some appropriate things to mention for the speed reasons. Then you can elaborate stuff that falls below that as well.
  • Modest + Surf + Splash Plate is a viable option to 2HKO Chansey at +6 and Unaware Clefable unboosted.
There's a misconception with this line that people have overlooked. This is Modest + Surf + Splash Plate + Rain. This set is actually meant for the TG + RD set the purpose of breaking Unaware Clefable comes from breaking mixed bulk variants, which is one of the defensive checks to Manaphy to begin with. This line can be removed entirely with more emphasis on its Tail Glow + Rain Dance set.
  • Other viable items include Wacan Berry, which lets Manaphy take on an Electric-type such as Raikou or Thundurus once, Salac Berry to patch up Manaphy's mediocre Speed stat against offensive teams, Lum Berry to allow Manaphy to shrug off status ailments such as Clefable's Thunder Wave, feigning having Wacan Berry to deter Electric-types from revenge killing Manaphy, and in general sweep more easily, and Sitrus Berry to let recover a quarter of its health after its health has been halved, which greatly benefits certain offensive teams that play Manaphy more aggressively.
Raikou, Thundurus, Mega Manectric. You really want to emphasize that last Pokemon because those 3 in particular encompass the strong offensive electrics in the tier so no point in missing out on that. Lum Berry wants emphasize on Thunder Wave by Klefki as well, a lot of teams emergency buttons against a Tail Glow Manaphy when their offensive checks are out or need help is to paralyze it with Klefki and call it a day. Lum Berry removes this counterplay from the picture and lets it continue breaking or sweeping in that instance. I don't understand the point of feigning an item I always assume if it isn't Leftovers it's going to be one of the other items so tricking somebody is easier said than done.
  • Has decent bulk so it can take a hit or even two from the likes of Mega Lopunny, Landorus-T, and Mega Metagross if needed be - for example if in the middle of a sweep at near-to-full health.
I wouldn't overrate its bulk to that extent. It takes some neutral hits pretty well but tanking hits from the likes of M-Gross isn't exactly a key selling point in using it.
Team Options
========
  • Answers to Grass-types, mainly Serperior, Mega Venusaur, and Celebi, are appreciated. These include Talonflame, Mega Charizard X, and Mamoswine. In particular, Talonflame and Mega Charizard X appreciate Manaphy's ability to beat Water- and Ground-types.
Tornadus-T, Mega Aerodactyl, and Weavile are a few more. Mega Scizor I wouldn't emphasize as a rain abuser mention it as a team-mate to break stuff like Celebi and fat psychics, relevant ones, more easily.

[SET]
name: Tail Glow + Rain Dance

Set Details
========

You basically said the same thing to justify Timid for the Tail Glow / 3 attacks set. Change it up a bit around this area.

Team Options
========

Jirachi needs to be here somewhere to help with Latis, more dragons in general such as Dragonite and Garchomp need to be here as well. Garchomp needs more emphasis on the analysis as a whole considering its usage and centralization right now. Mega Scizor needs to be here as well.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Dazzling Gleam for Kyurem-B and Kingdra at the bottom with emphasis that while it's handy for it specifically it's hard to balance out the coverage options. Someone who sees this might think it's a good idea so it's best to give them notice of that con (used it before, very hard to fit in). Salac Berry in OO kind of a given.

Checks and Counters
===================

Haxorus is not even close to relevant to a threat in the tier and is pretty bad anyways to be mentioned as a check to Manaphy. In your fast offensive pokemon section I wouldn't put Pokemon like Talonflame in there what so ever, ie stuff that can never come in on Manaphy. Mega Metagross seems super shaky as well and Mega Alakazam having no specific mention under this section is also something I would include.

QC 2/3 when that's all set.
 
I've been experimenting with Calm Mind a little bit, and here's a couple of optional EV spreads on CM Manpahy that can allow it to preform better:

  • 252 HP / 232+ Def / 8 SpD / 16 Spe [or 248 HP / 236+ Def / 8 SpD / 16 Spe]. This allows manaphy to avoid a 2HKO from AV Raikou's Thunderbolt at +1, thus allowing it 100% make it unable to counter it. Meaning you CM on the Raikou switch, then living 2 Thunderbolts, you RD + Rest safely.
Calcs:

252 SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 182-216 (45 - 53.4%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 8 SpD Manaphy: 180-212 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

OR
  • 252 HP / 204+ Def / 36 SpD / 16 Spe [or 248 HP / 208+ Def / 36 SpD / 16 Spe]. This allows manaphy to avoid 2HKO from LO Thundurus's Thunderbolt at +2. Meaning if the opponent assumes that this is Tail Glow and switches to something like Latias, but then realizes his mistake and goes back to Thundurus, you have +2, and can safely Rain Dance + Rest.
Calcs:

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 187-221 (46.2 - 54.7%) -- 7.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. +2 252 HP / 36 SpD Manaphy: 179-213 (44.3 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Also, 252 HP / 36 SpD has a much higher chance to live 2 Dracos from Latios followed by each other (one at +0 then at -2).

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 277-328 (68.5 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-2 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 138-164 (34.1 - 40.5%) -- 42.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

68.5 + 34.1 - 6.25 = 96.35%
81.1 + 40.5 - 6.25 = 115.35%. Meaning 2 Dracos are 96.3 - 115.3%

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Manaphy: 266-316 (65.8 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-2 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Manaphy: 133-157 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- 6.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

65.8 + 32.9 - 6.25 = 92.45%
78.2 + 38.8 - 6.25 = 110.8%. So 2 Dracos are 92.4 - 110.8%. This is something to throw out there
 

Martin

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IMO give Shed Shell an OO mention as it allows the TG+3 attacks set to reliably take on Gothitelle stall, which can be helpful for teams which have Manaphy as their main stallbreaker.
 

bludz

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Yo!

Overview
Make sure it's clear that Manaphy needs Rain Dance up and +6 to reliably defeat Chansey -- I wouldn't list it in the same sentence as those other defensive pokemon.

TG + 3 attacks

Set Details
“If Manaphy is not using Leftovers, try not to reveal what item it has too early - for example if the opponent knows Manaphy is carrying a Wacan Berry, they may play more carefully around it and not using their Electric-type to revenge kill.”

Not sure how you can reveal having a Wacan Berry so I would just take this out.

Usage Tips
Would also mention MG Clefable as an annoyance because it can win with T-Wave shenanigans. Lum Manaphy is the best against it.

Team Options
Mega Diancie + Manaphy with one of the two carrying HP Fire works very well to overload Ferrothorn and open up for a sweep for one or the other.

Would mention Psychic or HP Fire (to beat Venu / Amoon or Ferro) as great coverage for Manaphy when paired with Mega Altaria which is one its best partners.

Sort of a nitpick but I would not mention Gengar as something Defensive Garchomp checks as this is relegated only to variants running some SpDef and any prior damage negates its ability to act as a check. Hippo could also be mentioned alongside or in place of Garchomp.

TG + RD

Usage Tips
RD before TG when setting up against status users. TG first otherwise.

Calm Mind

Usage Tips
+2 252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Manaphy: 246-291 (61.3 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

It can take on SD Talonflame so I’d change the non-SD Talon bit to just Talonflame.

"Don't let Manaphy be forced into a position where the opponent can KO it easily, so don't wait until the last minute to use Rest."

"Try not to use Rest when Rain Dance isn't up, and on the last turn of rain, as Hydration won't activate and will leave Manaphy vulnerable for two whole turns."

These can be conglomerated into one sentence: manage your Rain turns appropriately so that you don’t Rest without waking up and can handle threats appropriately.

Checks & Counters
For Fast Offensive Pokemon I’d make a mention of weather sweepers.

I’d make mention of priority users as well. Things like Talonflame, Dragonite, Lucario, Breloom and Conkeldurr (AV Conk being a particular annoyance since it likes being burnt and even +3 Psychic can’t OHKO it) can pick it off when weakened.

I would also make a mention of Hoopa-U in there somewhere because of its excellent special bulk and only being OHKO’d by +3 Signal Beam (which isn't listed for a reason). It isn’t switching in and beating Manaphy after a TG but in a 1v1 situation it will win if it’s not a physical variant.

Once this is implemented QC 3/3
 
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"Psychic OHKOes Mega Venusaur when at +3, hits Poison-types and Fighting-types such as Toxicroak and Amoonguss, Keldeo and Conkeldurr, for super effective damage, as well as Water-types such as Suicune, Slowbro, and Azumarill for neutral damage."

Just a little thing I caught while reading this. Psychic isn't neutral on Slowbro.

Sorry if I'm not allowed to post this here.
 

Legacy Raider

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Something to consider adding to the bulky CM set is a comparison between it and CroCune (CM / Scald / Rest / Sleep Talk Suicune), its main competitor for this kind of set. These both play in a similar way in that they provide a solid bulky water-type, a status absorber, and a stallbreaker / win condition.

Suicune's advantages:
  • significantly higher initial defenses (100/115/115 vs 100/100/100) allowing it to function more effectively as a blanket check for things like talonflame, mega-metagross (without grass knot), bisharp, etc.
  • more instantaneous and less-interruptible recovery since it doesn't have to set up rain dance first before using rest. Importantly, this is particularly a weakness for manaphy because when you use rain dance at <60% health you are basically declaring "I will use Rest next turn", which allows an opposing sand-stream pokemon / charizard-y to come in and force you to sleep for the 2 turns.
  • pressure ability helps PP stall vs other calm mind boosters such as mega-sableye, and other stall pokemon such as chansey.
  • lack of reliance on rain allows it to function better on a sand team, or a team with multiple water weaks that wouldn't want rain up under any circumstances.

Manaphy's advantages:
  • higher speed, and SpA, and boost from rain allows it to do more damage.
  • while rain is up, can heal itself repeatedly or every other turn with rest, while suicune is vulnerable during its two sleep turns.
  • takes significantly less damage from grass knot (20BP vs 100BP against suicune), meaning that while suicune makes a better answer to mega-gross without grass knot, manaphy isn't instantly neutered by those that do have it (for hippo, slowbro, etc). additionally the metagross user may ignorantly try and use grass knot on manaphy anyway which gives you an extra turn with scald's burn chance.
  • works better in the wider context of a rain team.
  • can survive a solarbeam from charizard-y if at full health (76.3 - 89.7%) and remove its sun. a very soft check but useful nonetheless, since after leftovers a subsequent fire blast will KO manaphy <50% of the time, and focus blast may miss. only mentioning because this situation actually happened to me in practice (on a similar set running the same EVs but tail glow > calm mind) and saved me from a charizard-y sweep!

TL;DR - worth making the comparison to suicune, which is a bulkier water-type with its own pros and cons in comparison to CM manaphy.
 

Legacy Raider

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QC: 49 / AM
It is to be highlighted that Calm Mind Manaphy does have a few advantages over CroCune, such as a better Speed stat, better damage output in general, especially considering Rain Dance, and reliable recovery without having to be rendered useless for two turns (bar Sleep Talk but that's unreliable).
Yep appreciate the addition but a more balanced comparison was what I ideally had in mind. The reason I'm harping on about this is because the strategy pokedex should ultimately help with pokemon choice in teambuilding, and these two sets are similar enough that a comparison is warranted. I've used both quite a bit so I hope you don't mind me suggesting these sentences instead of what you added:

"When considering this set for your team it is worth comparing some of its benefits over CroCune, a set that is Manaphy's biggest competition for this role. Suicune boasts higher defensive stats allowing it to check miscellaneous threats throughout the game marginally better than Manaphy. It can also use Rest to more easily heal itself back from the brink since it doesn't need to prep with Rain Dance first. However, once rain is up, Manaphy can heal itself much more easily and frequently, and also boasts a greater offensive presence with higher Speed, SpA, and rain-boosted Scalds."
 
"Rain abusers and Swift Swim users such as Tornadus-T, Mega Manectric, Raikou, Kabutops, Kingdra, and Mega Swampert appreciate Manaphy's ability to set rain to power up their own attacks."

I would not necessarily consider Mega Manectric to be an ideal rain abuser. Sure, it gets a 100% accurate Thunder, but it does not really appreciate having the power of its Flamethrower / Overheat cut in half, considering that it really wants to be able to pressure Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor with either move.
 
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