Resource RU Viability Ranking Thread: Abomasnow and Slowking Discussion

[Froggyboy]

Yeah, Durant got a bit better with being able to bop both drops with STAB X-Scissor, and Jellicent is gonna drop a bit in usage, but what else really changed for it? Being able to hit two other mons with X-Scissor is cool and all, but that's not really enough to raise Durant imo. Plus Jellicent is actually a poor non-Choice Durant check because of Crunch, so I wouldn't say the decline of Jellicent effects Durant too much as well. And you say its positives still apply, but its negatives still shine out to me as well, like constantly having 80% moves without a boost, not too amazing STAB combo, and the drops can still give it trouble. Yeah, Durant OHKOs both of them with X-Scissor, but Mega Abomasnow still does a ton with Blizzard or straight OHKOs with HP Fire, and Durant can't even switch into non Fire Blast Slowking as Scald does a lot to it with the chance of a burn, plus offensive sets are going to be more popular, so with that in mind, after rocks, you have a very high chance of getting ohko'd by Scald. Plus I'm just going to quote Spirit's post for when Durant was nommed for S rank last time, since most of what they said still applies here imo.

Durant is not S rank at all and the arguments for it are extremely exaggerated / terrible.

Let's look at the Hone Claws set. Durant needs all three of its standard attacks (Iron Head / X-Scissor / Superpower) to function at its best. The problem with saving "but Qwilfish and Jellicent are not checks because of Thunder Fang!!!" is that a when making an assertion like this, many fail to understand that by dropping one of Durant's other attacks in favor of the significantly less optimal Thunder Fang, Durant still has to pay the price of dropping a bit of its effectiveness as a result. For instance, dropping X-Scissor makes Tangrowth, Twave Uxie, and even certain Bronzong decent checks to Durant itself in exchange for being able to cut through Qwilfish / Alomomola. Durant can't just run Thunder Fang over one of its standard moves and not lose a bit of effectiveness as a result. It will always have something that can hard / wall check it. Even outside of the defensive spectrum of handling Durant's attacks, Durant can really only set up on very specific attacks (think Leaf Storms) or by forcing a switch. It's an incredibly frail Pokemon which only offers defensive synergy in the form of checking Mega Glalie on offense. Second, let's say you ended up getting that Hone Claws boost, you're still forcing a one-for-one considering practically any Choice Scarf user can revenge the thing, so in exchange for getting one kill, you're either being forced out and thus lose a ton of momentum or Durant is going down the following turn.

The problems for this set boil down to:

-Difficulty setting up
-Difficulty keeping a sweep
-Always having a handful of solid defensive responses no matter what it does

This is not S rank because it requires way too much support and has a number of significant flaws.

Let's look at the Choice Scarf set.

Because Durant is being nominated for S rank, it's fair to compare it to another S rank Choice Scarf user, Tyrantrum. Unlike Tyrantrum, Durant does not have an extremely spammable STAB, its STABs also have poor coverage in comparison and in general. The raw power of Tyrantrum's Head Smash allows it to pose as a threat to even defensive cores / Pokemon, something that Durant cannot do. I'm not saying that a Choice Scarf user should be able to put in work vs defensive teams, but what makes Tyrantrum such a good Choice Scarf user, and what sets it apart from the others, is that it can do just that simply with the threat of a single attack. This is the key thing that distinguishes Tyrantrum from the other Choice Scarf users in RU and what helped get it into S rank in the first place. In comparison to even Choice Scarf Delphox which can cripple defensive threats with Switcheroo, Scarf Durant is practically useless vs bulky water + Steel core which you will find on practically any balance / stall. An S rank threat should never be useless or a liability.

Now let's talk about the other glaring flaw with Choice Scarf Durant, that being, having to rely on a 80% accurate moves to revenge kill certain Pokemon. You should never be playing against Durant hoping it will miss, just like you wouldn't with Moltres in the past or Tyrantrum now. That's a given. However, unlike the previous two Pokemon and even other Choice Scarf users now such as Delphox, Durant does not have an accurate coverage move / STAB to fall back on. Not having something accurate to fall back on is a pretty big hit on its viability. Whenever I'm relying on Durant to revenge kill Venomoth / Scrafty, I have to cross my fingers every time and hope that it doesn't miss because if it does, I lose. I don't have to get into that same guessing game when I'm using something like Choice Scarf Delphox. With a Pokemon like that, it can revenge kill various set up sweepers with accurate moves that gives me a huge sense of security. Even with Tyrantrum and Moltres, while true they had to rely on inaccurate attacks every now and then, they had/have accurate STABs/moves to fall back on when needed. You will come across a point where Choice Scarf Durant will miss and it will cost you the game, and a lot of the time, you had no other choice but to go for the inaccurate attacks. Other S rank Choice Scarf users now and then don't have those flaws.

In short, Choice Scarf Durant:

-Will not put in work vs your bog standard balance / stall core in anyway, no Trick/Switcheroo, lack of raw power/STAB, nothing will help it put in the work, making it a liability in those matchups.
-Choice Scarf Durant can be unreliable as a result of having to rely on Hustle to be a proficient Choice Scarf user

Please don't argue saying you don't have to use Hustle on Choice Scarf because you do. Its STAB combo and move BP is already unimpressive as is, but without the Hustle boost, it's unbelievably pathetic in regards to its damage output.

This is not S rank.

The other sets, All-out Attacker / SubPass, I won't get into, but I don't think I need to explain why those sets are not S rank worthy, especially due to the fact that those two sets weren't even being acknowledged to move Durant up by those who nominated it / pushed for it to be S rank in the first place.

 

[lighthouses]

Dude, two good mons droped, durant beats both, how is this not a change?
You basically just repeated everything that was said on the other discussion a longass time ago

 

[Froggyboy]

I never denied it was a change, I just said it wasn't a good enough of a change to raise Durant to S(Virizion also beats both of them :OOO).
Yeah I did, because I mainly stated Durant's flaws and all of those still apply here.

 

[fran17]

I think I'll share my thoughts about the drops:

Mega Aboma for S Rank. His combination of power and bulk is incredible, and it has access to really powerful stabs (blizzard, energy ball, wood hammer), to a priority which compensate his low speed, to a good coverage (earthquake and focus blast), and to swords dance, which makes him even more scary to fight againist. He can fit good in bulky offensive or balanced teams, and he can be great even in subpar styles like trick room offense. I don't really think that there is much to say here, abomasnow will be a dominant threat in the tier and probably the most threatening too.

Slowking for S Rank. I think Slowking will be another top tier mon in RU. His typing and his good bulk allow him to check a lot of the top tier mons. Then regenerator is a really good trait, which allows him to take part into regen core with tangro or amoonguss, and not like mola, Slowking isn't really passive. Also it has access to 2 good setup moves like calm mind and nasty plot, or it can go for a twave set if you want speed control for your team. Also dragon tail is really nice, allowing him to work reallly well in hazard stacking team, shuffling the opposing team, and being also able to prevent grass type to switch into him. A cm+dtail set I think might do some work, but it's probably more on the gimmick side and idk how much it can matter on his viability. Also it can also work weel as a pivot with his AV set, or as a sweeper with a trick room attacker set!

Standard Aboma for C Rank. Like in the old meta, mega aboma is way better than his standard form and can be put onto teams with more ease, but what I think standard aboma has over his mega, and he didn't have in the last meta were he was D rank, is that now sticky web are more effective, thanks to smeargle joining the team. 252+ Aboma under webs is fast enough to outspeed Durant, which is OHKOed by focus blast after rocks, or hail damage. Also Aboma's blizzard can pressure usual defoggers like Togetic or Flygon, the latter is OHKOed by ice shard anyway, and it can 2HKO Hitmontop, the only spinner in the tier, which is nice :)

These are only my thoughts, feel free to comment them

 

[Umen Berker]

As a side note that most won't look at Slowking dropping makes trick room a much more viable option once more, a style which fell out of use as all the good users moved out of the tier (except gourgiest, but it leaves a lot to be desired)

Slowking's utility as a trick room user is that it fills the special defensive psychic setter much better than any other user in the tier, other options pale in comparison (mushrana being one) due to their lower bulk overall and slowking not needing to run a recovery move due to regenerator. This also means it is able to tank knock off much better (a big thing on trick room teams as 90% of the setters are weak to it) as it doesn't need to rely on its leftovers to heal off damage.

With the plethora of slow powerful pokemon in the tier such as, rhyperior, escavalier (a nightmare on trick room teams as only it's terrible speed holds it back), mega camerupt, and even non offensive pokemon such as megalix benifiting from this I can see a cm trick room set rising as both support and being able to sweep in its own right, much like our favorite green blob used to do before its ban.

 

[Froggyboy]

tbh, I can see regular Abomasnow being C+ or even B, as while not having as much bulk as Mega Abomasnow, still can be paired with other megas like MegaRupt and MegaLix, while mantaining the large amount of offensive pressure to teams like its mega counterpart. Not only is the LO set pretty sweet, Abomasnow is also a decent scarfer, as Scarf Blizzard is very spammable and it can outspeed everything up to +1 Scrafty(misses out on Sneasel by 1 point ;.;) Maybe this is just new mon hype, but I am really digging BaseSnow, thus I'd like to think it is C+ or B.

Rotom-Mow should also drop, as not only Abomasnow a hard check to its Choice sets, Abomasnow also increases the popularity of Fire coverage and decreases the popularity of Water and Ground type Pokemon, also lessening its effectiveness. B+ because it is still a threatening Scarfer, but I definitely feel the drop of Abomasnow lessens its viability enough to drop it out of the A-ranks.

Rotom-Spin is actually pretty good right now, even though Abomasnow drop is bleh for it, it still should probably be B rank, as it checks so much in the tier right now that is unique to itself. Plus it also fulfills many roles in one teamslot, like Durant check, Volt Switch user, Flying check, Fighting check, Grass check, MegaLix check, and Ground immunity. Plus choice sets are also pretty neat, though I haven't really tested them. It's just a nice fit onto a lot of balanced and defensive teams right now, thus a raise into the B ranks seems just to me.

 

[Cheryl.]

I think that Abomasnow should be C or C+. While Mega Abomasnow is mostly better, regular Aboma still has some traits that make it useful, like not wasting a mega slot and being able to be a bit more powerful with Life Orb. LO Blizzard hits pretty hard, and I've even tried out a Scarf set that, while not very good, can still be a half-decent late-game sweeper thanks to Abomasnow's powerful moves. While Mega Abomasnow's presence makes Abomasnow a lot less viable, it's still decent, and thus should be ranked.

 

[Hyogafodex]

i actually think that mega abomasnow should be A+, cause even if it is a really good wallbreaker, almost all offesive mons in the tier are able to outspeed and ohko it

 

[Funbot28]

Ok got used to the meta so will make my noms:

to A+

Hide

Mega Abomasnow is really scary in RU atm. Ice/Grass is really good offensive typing coupled with spammable moves in it's disposable in Blizzard and Wood Hammer. It also has pretty good coverage with Focus Blast and Earthquake and could kinda make up for it's low speed with Ice Shard. The only real things hold Mega Snow back is that low base speed which like the previous post said, let's any offensive mon come in and revenge kill it, limiting it's opportunities to sweep. It also has a weakness to SR, which makes it difficult to switch freely at the right moments. I have to admit that it is one of the premier wallbreakers in the tier like Mega Camrupt, but really struggles with offensive teams that apply pressure with hazards, which makes me believe Mega Snow is more fitting for A+, rather than S.

to A+/S

Hide

Im torn. Slowking was a dominant threat back when it was RU previously, and the meta adapted to it's loss and the other psychics leaving like Cress and Reuniclus. It now performs a nice Regen core with Amonguss/Tangrowth (I prefer Tang due to offensive pressure core can bring) and like said previously, is less passive to it's counterpart in Alomomola. It can really run a multitude of sets pretty effectively, and is quite versatile when it comes to it's movepool. It also checks the metas most powerful mons in Mega Steelix, Flygon, Non-specs Meloetta and to an extent Tyrantrum. I am just not sure if it can be considered S at this point, but maybe after the Tryantrum suspect (if it gets banned), it can rise to S, due to Fire types probably increasing in popularity.

Haven't played with reg Abomasnow yet, so no comment.

 

[fran17]

I don't think that Abomasnow is really scared of faster offensive mon. If he gets a boost it become difficult to revengekill, since usually offensive mons lacks of a decent bulk, and Abomasnow's more than decent bulk allows him to take some hits without much problems, even if they are supereffective (can take a fletch acro or an hitmonlee mach). Also offensive mon will never switch into Aboma, so the opponent will need to sac a pokémon to bring the rkiller in.

 

[Lord Death Man]

Rotom-Mow should also drop, as not only Abomasnow a hard check to its Choice sets, Abomasnow also increases the popularity of Fire coverage and decreases the popularity of Water and Ground type Pokemon, also lessening its effectiveness. B+ because it is still a threatening Scarfer, but I definitely feel the drop of Abomasnow lessens its viability enough to drop it out of the A-ranks.

I disagree with this. Rotom-Cut gained just as much as it lost - Megasnow makes Rupt and Lix much rarer by existing and has a lot of teams running only one ground again and Slowking is more replacing Alomomolas while being slightly more exploitable because they can't protect. I don't think getting volt switched on is the best hard check and Megasnow teams are automatically worse at forcing leaf storms. I'm on my phone, but I wouldn't be shocked if specs Leaf storm 2hkod after rocks anyway.

I don't have time for a full post, but I think Snow Warning is such a powerful ability on regular snow for offense/balance and helps migate it's "bad" offensive stats a ton, especially because we have other good partners that benefit from it too (Sigilyph and Esca checks hate taking the extra damage for example, and those are just the most obvious partners). I haven't used it yet so I won't suggest a rank though.

 

[Hopeee]

Hey guys I'm nominating reg. Abomasnow for B Rank. Without a mega stone, it has a higher speed stat, allowing it to outspeed things from base 30-60, which is a HUGE gap. Also due to not holding a mega stone, it allows Abomasnow to run another choice of an item, such as lefties, life orb, scarf, icy rock, etc.

 

[Molk]

Spirit, atomicllamas, and i got this updated, changes and a few discussion points below. Mega Abomasnow and Slowking have been added to A+ rank for now, but i could personally see both of them becoming S rank candidates as the metagame progresses.

changes

Slowking added to A+ rank
Abomasnow (mega) added to A+ rank
Jellicent down from A rank to B+ rank
Abomasnow added to C+ rank
Steelix added to C+ rank
Rotom up from C+ rank to B rank
Shiftry up from C+ rank to B rank
Roselia up from C+ rank to B rank
Pelipper up from C+ rank to B rank

discussion points

Delphox down from A rank to B+ rank.

I feel like this is a very real possibility considering the recent metagame shifts, in particular Slowking's return to RU. Slowking is without a doubt going to be a very threatening Pokemon in the metagame, and it just happens to be a huge thorn in Delphox's side. Slowking takes practically nothing from Delphox's STAB moves due to its typing, and it has more than enough special bulk to stomach a Grass Knot if need be, especially when invested. On top of this, Slowking has excellent longevity thanks to the combination of Regenerator and its access to Slack Off, allowing it to survive to give Delphox trouble throughout a significant portion of the game in many cases. Outside of giving Delphox trouble directly, Slowking's existence in the metagame also encourages the use of other Pokemon that give Delphox issues, including Houndoom (because it's the only Fire-type that can easily break through Slowking, ironically making it both an amazing check to Delphox and a very appealing competitor for a teamslot), as well as Pursuit users that might attempt to trap Slowking (although most of RU's Pursuit users can't switch into Delphox directly, many of them can put Delphox in a 50/50 situation at best either on the revenge or on a double switch).

Togetic down from B+ rank to B rank

Togetic suffers from being a poor Defog user due to its propensity to be beaten by nearly every relevant Stealth Rock user. In addition, Togetic's extreme passivity makes it setup bait unless it carries encore. This adds into another problem Togetic suffers: 4MSS, where its uncapable of executing any of its roles without being a huge momentum suck, reduce its proficiency to perform its given role as a defensive Pokemon, or simply give too many free turns to very threatening Pokemon if it doesn't have the right move.

Meloetta down to from S rank A+ rank

Dark-types have becoming significantly more popular with the addition of Slowking. To make matters worse, previously uncommon checks, such as Escavalier, have risen to prominence that gives it continued difficulty performing as well as it has before.

Rotom-S up to B rank (unsure about moving this)
Rotom-C down to B+ rank (unsure about moving this)

 

[EonX]

Delphox: With Slowking back, Delphox is in a real catch 22 position. It needs Grass Knot to have any hope against Slowking, but running this means it's total bait for Houndoom and has a harder time with Scrafty. Over the past few months, Delphox has had the liberty of being able to run Dazzling Gleam over Grass Knot if the team needed the move more for catching Houndoom and beating Scrafty. Now with Slowking around, that luxury is severely hindered as, without Grass Knot, Slowking is free to come in as many times as it pleases. Specs and Trick Room variants of Slowking really put a damper on all of Delphox's sets while more defensive sets just eat up hits from the Specs / CM sets for days (but are completely boned by Switcheroo) Compared with other Fire-types, Houndoom threatens both Slowking and (Mega) Abomasnow while also having Dark-type STAB moves for Meloetta (still a serious threat) Emboar may not be able to reliably beat Slowking (catching it with Wild Charge is huge tho) but it does benefit greatly from the likes of Escavalier, Bronzong, and (to a lesser extent) Registeel getting more usage with Mega Abomasnow back. Mega Camerupt also has a hard time with Slowking, but it too benefits a lot from Escavalier rising to combat Mega Abomasnow and it actually works decently well with Slowking and normal Abomasnow due to defensive synergy. Put all this together and what do you get? Perhaps for the first time since the inception of XY RU, Delphox's tools are perhaps the least useful of any relevant Fire-type in the tier. That's not to say it's terrible tho. It's the fastest of all relevant RU Fire-types and Scarf sets can still run Dazzling Gleam pretty freely since you should ideally have teammates to break through Slowking, but outside of this, Delphox has a hard time now. I definitely feel a drop to B+ rank is necessary.

Rotom-C: I'm not fully commital to this one dropping, but having Abomasnow back around definitely hurts. It can eat Rotom-C's STAB moves pretty easily and has Ice Shard to revenge kill weakened ones and Blizzard to threaten anything wanting to switch-in for Rotom-C. Being able to threaten Slowking with both STABs is pretty nice admittedly and Mega Steelix dropping slightly (but not a lot) is also helpful for its Volt Switch shenanigans. At this point, I feel like Rotom-C finds itself around where Virizion was toward the end of Cobalion meta. It's sort of outclassed as a Grass-type and an Electric-type, but it does combine the roles of both into one teamslot. Not really sure that's enough to keep it in A rank or not, but just something to think about. I think it should stay in A rank for now as the meta develops and adapts a little bit more, but I wouldn't be completely opposed to a drop.

Also going to throw another discussion point out there. Not as important as the ones Molk brought up tho.

Auroros: With regular and Mega Abomasnow back in RU, is there really any reason for this to stay ranked? The highest it probably should be is D rank unless I'm just missing something that it does better than the snowmen. Horrible defensive typing, lower offenses overall, (slightly higher Special Attack, but much lower physical Attack) 2 points slower in Speed, and lack of Ice Shard. Normal snowman is probably better since it has some nice resistances and Ice Shard at its disposal.

 

[Jaguar360]

Auroros: With regular and Mega Abomasnow back in RU, is there really any reason for this to stay ranked? The highest it probably should be is D rank unless I'm just missing something that it does better than the snowmen. Horrible defensive typing, lower offenses overall, (slightly higher Special Attack, but much lower physical Attack) 2 points slower in Speed, and lack of Ice Shard. Normal snowman is probably better since it has some nice resistances and Ice Shard at its disposal.

I'm not a particularly active RU player anymore, so forgive me if I'm wrong, but Abomasnow can't really take away the fact that Aurorus is a pretty nice Stealth Rock setter and has better Special coverage with Blizzard/Hyper Voice + Earth Power + Freeze-Dry. Its Rock Polish set is also something to consider, since it doesn't depend on Ice Shard priority to sweep like Aboma does with its SD set. Like I said before, I could be missing something, so have at it.

 

[MrAldo]

Gotta defend aurorus on this one. Aurorus, while not a stellar mon by any means is a pretty decent mon for what can it provide. Dropping it to D is way too big of a punishment for something with much more practical uses than anything in that rank. I can understand the direct comparison since with mega abomasnow returning Aurorus finds itself outclassed in many aspects like hail setter, wallbreaker and setup sweeper but mega abomasnow share a lot of the same issues, just with a different typing that provides an electric resistance.

On Aurorus favor, it packs an extremely useful flying resistance which is absolutely necessary to have on a team and this mon provides this while having neat utility in SR, threatening pretty much every defogger by itself. Rock/Ice is also quite a funny typing it can threaten fire types being an ice type. Have used this thing pretty often and when bronzong isnt ruining my day, it can good amounts of work. Should stay C

Other noms:

Yeah, Delphox should drop. This mon biggest nemesis just dropped (slowking) and now builds that want to use delphox at its fullest demand some pursuit support since now there is a psychic type that it cant outlast no matter what. Also, the awkward decision making of running dazzling gleam or grass knot is back and it will more support depending on what it wants to run. Should drop to B+ on the bases that it need more support.

Idk, togetic have always been a pretty lackluster defogger outside of pretty defensive teams so on that basis is an easy drop. Nasty plot baton pass togetic is actually a lovely set and togetic saving grace in this metagame. It can use every relevant fighting type as setup fodder and bunch on mons that at +2 (meloetta, mega abomasnow, delphox, good nasty plot recipients) are the most terrifying thing. A really valuable niche that could keep togetic on B+ in my opinion. It has issues with status outside of heal bell but the set is supposed to be used more aggresively anyways.

 

[Legacy Raider]

Is the OP still up to date? I was hoping to familiarise myself with the metagame and just wanted to double check before throwing together a team.

 

[EonX]

Is the OP still up to date? I was hoping to familiarise myself with the metagame and just wanted to double check before throwing together a team.

It was updated this past Wednesday, so the OP is a reliable thing to go off of when building a team currently:

Togetic: Didn't cover this the first time around, but I don't think Togetic should be ranked for its Defog set. Instead, I think it should be ranked for its NastyPass set. Togetic's NastyPass set is really flexible, having solid bulk, great defensive typing, and offensive utility which the Defog set lacks. Thanks to Nasty Plot, opponents have to be really careful about what they send in considering the set could be running Dazzling Gleam for Scrafty, Tyrantrum, and others or Fire Blast for Steels and Mega Abomasnow. It still has reliable recovery in Roost, enough bulk to check / counter what it's supposed to, and the ability to make stuff like Jolteon, Exploud, and Meloetta even more threatening than they already are. I've honestly never been a huge fan of using Togetic as a Defog user, especially since Flygon dropped. I think Togetic should remain B+ rank, but for its NastyPass set, not the Defog set.

 

[Shadestep]

hi there, the new drops and the interesting discussions about them made me want to share my two cents about them

--> Mega-Abomasnow
i think A+-Rank is as high as it should get, S-Rank is a little bit too much.
its combination of strong ability, excellent spammable moves, Swords Dance, Growth, recovery in Giga Drain and Synthesis (altho it only heals 25% under hail so dont run that) make it very versatile overall. priotiry in Ice Shard is very nice to pick off fast-but-frail revenge killers, and is very strong after a SD.

the problem with M-Aboma is that almost all S or A-rank mons beat it 1v1. Tyrantrum lives a +2 ice shard from 252+ M-Aboma and revengekills, M-steelix heavy slams it to hell and back although you do take a lot of dmg in the encounter.
fast attackers that resist ice shard like durant delphox houndoom fletch escav etc. all easily beat it unless they come in on a strong blizzard, but thats not a good idea D:

--> Slowking
seeing as there are so many sets that this can run to beat it's supposedly 'checks' (tanga + Fire Blast for durant and escavalier, Thunder Wave + Colbur for houndoom and other dark types, NP + TR for absolute wreckage, etc) that I think it could be S-Rank. its bulk, free choice of items, reliable recovery, and most outstandingly godly movepool make up for its lack of speed as it can even run Trick Room to compensate for that.

Slowking's biggest problem is that it can only have 4 moves to choose from and it cant check/counter/break everything it needs to because of that. but scouting slowking is a bit difficult as switching into an unexpected specs Psyshock can screw you over a lot.

getting back into RU is going to be really fun with these additions and a fresh-n-healthy metagame :]

 

[Ping_Pong_Along]

Rotom-S: I feel like this guy is one of the best mons that people aren't using. It plays really well against both offensive and defensive teams, checking or countering a ton of offensive threats like Durant, Fletchinder, and most Fighting types as well as defensive threats, such as Alomomola and neuters Mega Steelix. If anything, it has gotten better since the tier shift since neither Slowking nor Abomasnow (mega or otherwise) want to switch in on it. Mega Abomasnow has also caused Mega Camerupt to be used far less often, which normally walls Rotom-S. With all of this in mind as well as what had been brought up previously, I agree that it's worthy of B rank.

I've got a couple other nominations I'll make when I have more time.

 

[empire370]

hi there, the new drops and the interesting discussions about them made me want to share my two cents about them

--> Mega-Abomasnow
i think A+-Rank is as high as it should get, S-Rank is a little bit too much.
its combination of strong ability, excellent spammable moves, Swords Dance, Growth, recovery in Giga Drain and Synthesis (altho it only heals 25% under hail so dont run that) make it very versatile overall. priotiry in Ice Shard is very nice to pick off fast-but-frail revenge killers, and is very strong after a SD.

the problem with M-Aboma is that almost all S or A-rank mons beat it 1v1. Tyrantrum lives a +2 ice shard from 252+ M-Aboma and revengekills, M-steelix heavy slams it to hell and back although you do take a lot of dmg in the encounter.
fast attackers that resist ice shard like durant delphox houndoom fletch escav etc. all easily beat it unless they come in on a strong blizzard, but thats not a good idea D:

--> Slowking
seeing as there are so many sets that this can run to beat it's supposedly 'checks' (tanga + Fire Blast for durant and escavalier, Thunder Wave + Colbur for houndoom and other dark types, NP + TR for absolute wreckage, etc) that I think it could be S-Rank. its bulk, free choice of items, reliable recovery, and most outstandingly godly movepool make up for its lack of speed as it can even run Trick Room to compensate for that.

Slowking's biggest problem is that it can only have 4 moves to choose from and it cant check/counter/break everything it needs to because of that. but scouting slowking is a bit difficult as switching into an unexpected specs Psyshock can screw you over a lot.

getting back into RU is going to be really fun with these additions and a fresh-n-healthy metagame :]

Actually Mega Abomasnow has a pretty decent chance to ohko rantrum with +2 and after stealthrocks, and with a swords dance up mega abomasnow 2hkos mega steelix with earthquake and mega steelix only 2hkos it with heavy slam so they dont exactly beat it one on one all the time

 

[eren]

Rotom-Mow should also drop, as not only Abomasnow a hard check to its Choice sets, Abomasnow also increases the popularity of Fire coverage and decreases the popularity of Water and Ground type Pokemon, also lessening its effectiveness. B+ because it is still a threatening Scarfer, but I definitely feel the drop of Abomasnow lessens its viability enough to drop it out of the A-ranks.

I completely disagree with this nomination. Yes, Aboma hard checks it but in reality wont Rotom just Vswitch on the switch in? Rotom-C hasnt lost any particular niche and in fact, has gained quite a good one in being a great check to CM, NP, and Twave Slowking, the most common Slowking sets. Rotom-C ca also run Hp fire to lure in Aboma to help wuth things that appreciate Aboma gone such as Scarf flygon. I also disagree with Fire ttpes becoming much more common. Yes you may see more hp fires on random mons to catch Aboma, but with Slowking dropping as well, the only Fire mon I see gaining much usage is Houndoom and maybe Emboar, both which are outsped by Scarf Rotom-C or are pummeled by the Specs set on switch in. While you bring up potentially solid points, Rotom-Cis still the best Rotom form in RU by far and putting only two subranks from Rotom-A (while it is good itself) is quite absurd. Keep it A- defo

 

[Harald Glööökler]

Why should rotom mow drop? It checks one drop and versus the second you can pivot out ot it can use hp fire. I would think that it got much better because the most played groubd type will drop in Usage. It is actually able to break many walls whith specs leafstorm and it can pivot out versus many other mons or it can trick some defensive ones. With scarf it is also able to beat many offensive teams with a hard hitting attack in leaf storm and a pivot move and it still has a good speedtier.So i would not drop this.

Slowking should rise to s-rank. It has an amzing movepool a great ability compared with good stats and an ok typing. While many people play calm mind or defensive i think the best set is
The nasty plot and trick room set. It gets great setupp options because of its ability to force switches and than it can setupp one time again because of its great bulk. That set is extremely good versus offense and even balance and stall because it can become a offensive monster that cant be walled becauae it has a great special attaxk stats after a boost. It can play lure sets whith ice beam grass knot and fire blast too an ability twhich is really good.

 

[Miyami~~]

I do feel like Delphox should drop to B+. It already has the issue of both being competed for a spot and countered by Houndoom, and now it has the awkward issue of needing Dazzling Gleam and Grass knot/Shadow Ball now that Slowking is in the tier, and it can't possible account for all of that at once without being walled.

 

[Miyami~~]

Back to make a nom of my own :)

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Mega Banette down to C
Mega Banette is a paradox. It has REALLY high attack, but it also has Prankster, which wants you to use non-attacking moves. Outside of Prankster, it's quite slow, meaning outside of Prankster, it's very easy to Revenge kill it if it does manage to kill something. On top of that, it's HP and defences range from Pitiful to Mediocre at best, which, compounded with a low speed stat make it very easy to kill.