Metagame NP: RU Stage 12: Wrecking Ball (see post 65 and 66)

[Molk]

The RU council has brought up Tyrantrum as possibly being deserving of a suspect test. Previously RU has only suspected Pokemon that were considered by atomicllamas and I to be very likely to be broken (hence the voting ending up as over 80% ban). However, we have decided to change the way that RU is approaching suspect testing, by suspecting Pokemon that are less obviously broken, but may have a negative impact on the RU metagame. As always, if you'd like to see some in depth reasoning as to why this Pokemon is being suspected, there are some paragraphs below written about why this Pokemon in particular was chosen, whether or not you agree with the reasoning is up to you, however.

The requirements for this test will be the same as last time.The reqs will be 2800 coil with a B value of 9.0 and the suspect test will end/voting will begin exactly two weeks after the date this post was made. Some sample values are below.

GXE N
100 18
90 25
85 32
80 46
78 58
75 91
72 222

To find out how many matches it'll take for you specifically, take your GXE, and put it into this formula

N=9.0/log2(40*GXE/2800)

Reasoning

Tyrantrum is being suspected primarily due to its extremely hard hitting STAB moves. For offensive teams, it is very hard to find a rock resist sturdy enough to switch in and take two Head Smashes from Scarf Tyrantrum, this is exacerbated by the fact that the Steel-types which most easily fit onto offense does not resist Rock-type moves in the first place. Because of this, offensive teams are limited quite a bit in this metagame, and are often forced into running a slower, more defensive Pokemon, which can be a huge momentum drain that heavy offense teams can't afford. While Tyrantrum has the most influence on offensive teams, it is not dead weight against defensive teams either, simply due to the extremely high BP of its STAB moves. Common defensive steel types lack reliable recovery, so Tyrantrum's presence can easily lead to them being overwhelmed.

tagging The Immortal for a ladder please

Here's to a smashing suspect test

***PSA: Do not shit post. Any posts lacking content will be deleted and infracted.

 

[atomicllamas]

Shout out to Spirit for learning how to photo shop for the excellent photo you can find in the hide tags :3

also we will still be strictly moderating this thread for the first couple days to stem the tide of one-liners, please keep them to a minimum.

 

[EonX]

We smashing everything boys. Joking aside, I'm not going to speak too much about Tyrantrum itself. However, I am going to bring up a couple of Pokemon that are usable on offensive teams and can at least tank a hit or two from Tyrantrum and threaten an immediate KO:

Torterra @ Leftovers
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Wood Hammer
- Synthesis
- Stealth Rock

With reliable recovery, solid physical bulk, and a powerful STAB Earthquake, Torterra is arguably the best offensive response to Tyrantrum right now. Outrage doesn't even have a guaranteed 2HKO after Rocks, (Life Orb sets will 2HKO though) thus allowing Torterra to stall it out with Synthesis once before going for a KO with Earthquake. To top it all off, Torterra is able to set up Stealth Rock pretty reliably as well while also being a good check to the likes of Rhyperior, Mega Steelix, and most Electric-types. The lone issue with Torterra is that it's not a great fit on hyper offense teams (tho it can still work) as it fits more with bulky offense teams, which can still be beneficial if you can't really afford a defensive Steel-type on such teams. However, if you are looking for a Stealth Rock setter on hyper offense teams that stands a decent chance against Tyrantrum, then this might be worth a look:

Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SAtk / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Sludge Bomb

Compared with Torterra, Seismitoad is much squishier, but it is about the only Stealth Rock setter that can work consistently on hyper offense without losing a ton of momentum. Outrage blows Seismitoad away (easy 2HKO) but it does resist Head Smash and can KO back with Earth Power. Seismitoad also gives hyper offense teams a reliable check to Electric-types and a great Scald switch-in, so it does much more than be a soft check to Tyrantrum for hyper offense teams.

Outside of these two however, hyper offense teams have an extremely difficult time dealing with Tyrantrum, especially Scarf sets. While they are able to revenge kill Tyrantrum fairly reliably, the problem lies in that the fact that it can just use Head Smash and get a nearly guaranteed KO every time it switches in due to the fact that very few offensive Pokemon can take 2 of them. To make matters worse, Choice Band Granbull is really about the only offensive Fairy-type in the tier, so Outrage presents its own set of problems for hyper offense (tho not quite as bad since Durant and Escavalier exist) And it's not like Tyrantrum is helpless against other playstyles either. Balanced and Stall teams are much better against Choice Scarf sets, but have their own set of issues with Life Orb Rock Polish sets and Choice Band sets due to the high Base Power of Tyrantrum's STAB moves. And base 71 Speed is more than enough to deal with most defensive Pokemon in the tier along with many wallbreakers (Exploud, Samurott, and Emboar to name a few)

Just a few discussion points with Tyrantrum and what might be able to work against it.

 

[Gorechomp]

Ahh the time has come. I disagree that Tyrantrum is broken for a number of reasons. First, there are plenty of switch ins in the teir to handle Tyrantrum. With bulky defensive types such as Tangrowth and Seismatoad littering the teir, there are plenty of ways for a well built team to stop Tyrantrum. Granted, a STAB 150 base power move like Head Smash deals quite alot of damage to certain non-defensive mons and shouldn't be underestmated for sure, with plenty of defensive mons that resist it (Bronzong, Seismatoad, Mega Steelix) and mons that are bulky enough to tank a hit regardless (Alomomola, Tangrowth) Tyrantrum shouldn't be TOO much of a problem to any self repecting Balenced or Stall team. Second, this dinosaur is slow. While having base 71 speed is decent in this tier, there are more than enough mons that can revenge kill it if it gets out of hand, whether they be physical attackers (Flygon, Hitmonlee, Durant) and especially special attackers (Delphox, Meloetta, Seismatoad, I could goon in this catogory). Lastly, Tyrantrum has HORRIBLE special defense. With SPdef at a dreadful base 59 and HP of a average 82, Rantrum is so specially frail even resisted attacks can 2HKO it. Not only that but having a total of six weaknesses (most very common like, Ground and Fighting) Tyrantrum has to either pray he oneshots (Aromatisse and Tangrowth come to mind here) any specially attacker or pray he out speeds them (which onless he is scarfed he mostlikely won't) or he will most likely get one-shotted by certain threats (Aromatisse and Tangrowth immdiately come to mind). Lastly, Tyrantrum most spammable move, Head Smash is innacuarate. I can't tell you how many times I personally have missed HS and cost me my Tyrantrum. I understand HS is a powerful move in hands of Tyrantrum, you also have to consider that is also has the same accuracy as Stone Edge (which is NOTOrious for missing). If Tyrantrum misses the Head Smash on key threats Tyrantrum will usually either get statused or just oneshtted, thus hidering its effectiveness on taking it out of commision.

Those reasons are why I strongly vote Tyrantrum should not be banned. I just don't see it as game breaking enough to warrent a ban. I don't know if I will participate in this suspect test or not, but if I have some free time I'll give it a shot.

 

[MoxieCross]

While I sympathize with the nature of Tyrantrum's hard hitting dual-STAB, its not really fair to consider an 80% accurate move broken for the tier. And this should be the main topic of discussion, because I do understand how this mon can break offense when needed. People choose to use tyrantrum at their own risk and will challenge their luck and if they miss one head smash the Tyratrum is likely to be rendered useless thanks to its middling defense, many weaknesses and vulnerability to all 3 major forms of status. Wile they do not necessarily fit on offensive teams, there are numerous switch ins to Head Smash in the tier such as Steelix (literally does 4) Regi, Rhyp, Bronz, Toad, Alomamola to an extent, and others, and Superpower honestly is not all that strong on scarf-Ty except to maybe hit Regi. Not to mention a susceptibility to any and all forms of hazards. Its very good, don't get me wrong, and can be considered S tier, but I never feel all too threatened by it during teambuilding and am able to counter it without thinking about it because it does ave quite a number of checks.

I would say no ban but I also feel a suspect is rightfully deserve. But at the end of the day, it's accuracy is just too risky. At what accuracy to we considered no longer game-breaking, to the level of Focus Miss? Dare I say Dynamic Punch level?

 

[phantom]

Can we please not use dex info in our arguments on whether or not something is broken? Saying Tyrantrum has "bad SpD and is slow" literally proves nothing. Let's take into account that Tyrantrum is being suspected due to the constraint its Scarf set puts on offensive teams, so saying defensive teams can check it doesn't prove anything. We know that. Also lol, neither Tangrowth nor Alomomola are solid checks to Tyrantrum due to the damage they take from Head Smash unless both focus on investing in their physical bulk which makes Alomomola a shaky Fire check and Tangrowth a mediocre Pokemon in general due to how poor its defensive set is. Don't misconstrue information by implying that Tyrantrum can be checked by anything physically bulky Gorechomp because you specifically need a defensive-minded Head Smash resist to reliably check it.

And lastly, saying it has an inaccurate move doesn't prove anything in this context. You don't play against Tyrantrum hoping it will miss.

I will delete any more posts that are based on terrible arguments such as move accuracy, other superficial dex info, and and most importantly irrelevant dex info such as "bad SpD". Tyrantrum isn't being suspected for its ability to take hits.

 

[Mar1onette]

Well they specifically said they weren't suspecting primarily of brokenness but of how unhealthy tyrantrum is, what iv'e really seen in these few posts and in the RU Room is that people are treating this suspect test like its based around tyrantrums brokenness alone and not how unhealthy it is for the meta, iv'e seen people say "Tyrantrum isn't broken because ___ can take ___ hits from it" or "Tyrantrums brokenness hasn't broken the meta" and other stuff like that completely disregarding what this suspect is about which like i have stated before is about how unhealthy it is for the meta, and how the meta has been affected by it and how the meta would improve or unimproved with it being gone. I personally don't have a comment on whether it should be banned or nah, just wanted to point something out that iv'e noticed :I

 

[Umen Berker]

I used to run a hyper offense team for the fun of it and from my own personal experience tyrantrum isn't a big issue (especially scarf) for these teams as you (almost) always get a 1 for 1 trade by revenge killing it after sacking something. Also as hyper offensive teams will often have a weakened mon on their side its easy to send out the sacrificial goat and then revenge it in turn with a faster mon or your own scarfer.

But on the subject of if it is healthy for the meta I would say it definately isn't. Not only from the idea of it being over centralizing but also that it stifles the creativity in teams. Due to tyrantrums great offensive typing, good speed with a scarf, a 150 BP stab and a 120 BP stab in two of the best offensive types in the tier, and the power to OHKO many attempts to swap into it has made me slap it on teams more than once without a second thought. Need a revenge killer that will always OHKO or take a sizeable chunk out of something when brought in for free? Tryantum does it best. Need a fast glue pokemon to shore up your slower team? Tyrantrum is probably a solid choice. Any situation were you need power and speed tyrantrum is more often than not a good choice. It is also a solid choice if you just need a 6th pokemon and have defensive coverage in the rest of your team. It has such little opportunity cost that it is very splashable on teams.

This is the big reason why I would think it would be banned. Simply due to it becoming so common in its ease of use and placement on teams that it becomes over centralizing due to shear usage causing all teams to need checks and counters to it or simply risk loosing on team preview.

 

[noobcubed]

Umen Berker You mention how teams require Tyrantrum checks to avoid it running over them, but how is "requiring checks to it to avoid losing to it" different from any other Pokemon? The only difference is the Tyrantrum has higher usage, and so not being prepared for it will cause more losses, but in fact that should be an even better reason to prepare for it (compare this situation to, say, full Baton Pass teams in OU, which weren't used very often but could bone you when they did, AND were much harder to prepare for anyway - so many people just didn't bother and accepted the occasional auto-loss).

 

[fran17]

I guess this is the suspect that everyone was waiting! Tyrantrum is an incredible monster in this meta, his high attack stat and really powerful stabs (Head Smash and Outrage) leave him with a few of solid answers, which are all hit hard by Superpower; LO Tyrantrum can 2HKO all the mons that should be able to switch on both of his stab and take a low damage thanks to their high defense (Rhyperior, Steelix, Bronzong), while the scarf set can do a good damage anyway, although it doesn't get the 2HKO. Also the new shifts really helped Tyrantrum, with the loss of one of his best check in offense, Medicham.

Also it can have different sets to choose what type of playstyle it has to beat; Choice Band can put a lot of pressure on stall/semi-stall teams, as usually the only mon that can have a chance to switch into Tyrantrum and win is only Mega Steelix, which can be worn down with ease since it has to check many other threats in stall. Rock Polish can work good againist all type of teams, since with his good typing and decent bulk can setup a Rock Polish with ease, and againist offense it usually means gg. Againist fatter builds which don't have many way to outspeed it, the Rock Polish set can always put a dent on it, with his powerful Head Smash, that doesn't have recoil since Tyrantrum has access to Rock Head. Lastly the Choice Scarf set, aka the pain of offense. It can come on a kill or on a weak hit (i.e. fletch's acro) and just reply with a really powerful hit and get a kill!

In the end I think Tyrantrum really needs to leave the tier, giving more free air to all the builds in the meta :)

 

[Rollout Shuckle]

Tbh I really like Sticky Web teams at the moment, they're an interesting case. It seems to me that Tyrantrum is forcing many people to dedicate a teamslot to a Tyrantrum check such as Seismitoad or Torterra instead of, say, an entry hazard remover such as Togetic, Golbat, or Flygon. In other words, less teams seem to be running entry hazard removal, and because of it, Sticky Web and other hazard-heavy teams are indirectly benefiting from Tyrantrum's presence. Not only that, but Tyrantrum is also a good Pokemon on Sticky Web itself. This is interesting, because it could be interpreted both ways: either Tyrantrum is having an unhealthy presence on the tier by hindering hazard removal, or it's helping out offensive (Sticky Web) teams. I choose to interpret these results as unhealthy, since Tyrantrum pressures most common hazard removers, forcing offensive (and balance) teams to choose Hitmontop, go with something like Claydol, or forgo entry hazard removal.

So far, though, I actually haven't had too much trouble with Tyrantrum, as most people on the lower ladder aren't quite using Tyrantrum to its fullest potential; however, the only checks I have if Sticky Web doesn't get up are Abomasnow's Ice Shard, Choice Band Flygon, and Mismagius (using fran17's Sticky Web team because why not), so I'll eventually come across a team with Tyrantrum that's going to screw me over. This is the problem with Tyrantrum; offensive teams are so starved for options to check it that they usually have to resort to momentum stoppers (aka slower Pokemon), which is unhealthy for the metagame. As of now, however, I'm still indifferent about whether or not to ban the prehistoric beast, since offensive teams DO have ways of dealing with / switching into Tyrantrum; Hitmonlee, Virizion, Flygon, Gallade, Scrafty, Poliwrath, Sawk, and a slew of entry hazard setters resist Head Smash, while Durant, Escavalier, Klinklang, Bronzong, and Granbull resist Fairy. Again, these are only the Pokemon that are able to fit into an offensive team / aren't passive.

 

[ict]

Will there be an alt confirmation thread for the reqs or is it gonna be here?

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

They'll post a thread to post your reqs in about a week or so, when the suspect test is halfway through. Just wait a bit for that.

That being said, I don't have a strong opinion on Tyrantrum yet, so I'll play a bit to see what Tyrantrum's effect on the metagame is.

 

[Umen Berker]

Umen Berker You mention how teams require Tyrantrum checks to avoid it running over them, but how is "requiring checks to it to avoid losing to it" different from any other Pokemon? The only difference is the Tyrantrum has higher usage, and so not being prepared for it will cause more losses, but in fact that should be an even better reason to prepare for it (compare this situation to, say, full Baton Pass teams in OU, which weren't used very often but could bone you when they did, AND were much harder to prepare for anyway - so many people just didn't bother and accepted the occasional auto-loss).

I suppose I could have worded it better. I wasn't meaning to say that as an argument against it in the meta but more a statement of fact. But unlike the example you used of Barton pass teams if you don't run a check or counter to tyrantrum you will just auto loose far far more often. This trait is not shared by any of the other S or A+ Rank mons due to their checks and counters being able to be rolled into one or two pokemon on a defensive core. But of the pokemon in the S, A+, and A ranks only 5 manage to resist Head Smash (Megalix, rhyperior, scrafty, hitmonlee, and seismitoad) of which only 3 can miss a 2HKO from outrage (megalix, rhyperior, and the toad), and standard rhyperior can't take two earthquakes if it's health is chipped away at a bit. Of the 3 that can accept tanking hits from it all but megalix add a large number of other defensive issues in the type weaknesses they posses which require more team support just to check this one mon (at least when looking at top tier checks to it). I'm addition these three are abysmally slow and are massive momentum suckers for offense, which is the type of team that tyrantrum is being suspected for hindering.

P.s. I also forgot to mention that none of those three have reliable recovery so if they take prior damage they cannot take its hits nearly as well (outside of megalix as it still laughs at anything tyrantrum can throw)

 

[g]

I mean the main issue with Tyrantrum as people have already pointed out is that the Choice Scarf set pretty much forces offensive team to run a certain pool of Pokemon that outside of that would be quite mediocre in that role for their stats or just metagame issues (Seismitoad, Torterra, Rhyperior, Hitmontop) or just because they dont allow to use another Mega Pokemon (Steelix). The fact that most of those aren't even reliable against some other Tyrantrum set such as Choice Band and are prone to its coverage moves without recovery is also extremely inconvenient and can make playing around Tyrantrum incredibly hard without heavy entry hazards support to punish its switching in and out. However I am not completely settled on a ban since sometimes its actually not that hard to play around since a lot of the time it is forced to kill whats in front of him essentially making the job of checking it a bit more bearable. So yeah im torn but tendentially pro ban on this one.

 

[dice]

unless u against a tyrantrum user tht's reppin the accolades of ost finalist style in the prediction + matchup department, i feel as though the oppressive nature of dino p hyperbolized. there are sundry checks available to offensive teams that have been listed itt, and dinodude's best sets are both choiced. medicham leaving the tier is hardly consequential to the dude since it was a p rare sight anyway....... tyrantrum is one of those dudes that necessitates a more individualized approach to check it (mostly on offense), but it's not like a ton of these dudes are solely for tyrantrum. if anything, tyrantrum is one of the most major enablers of more offensive teams.... balanced teams ain't rep this dude at all for the most part and it's a p dece breaker. i just don't really buy the whole ~theoretically speaking, tyrantrum's presence on offensive teams causes more issues than if it were gone and offensive teams will be equally boosted by its removal~. p hard to prove from just a suspect ladder.. no real metagaming gets put into mindlessly scopin the 2800 coil mark anyway. ban theory's p ambiguous anyway (ban 4 health even more theoretical than ban 4 'op'), but this dude gets curbstomped by quite a few mons that can fit on balanced/stallier/even offensive teams (tr zong? mega lix can work on more offensively inclined teams!). arbitrary team classification aside, i just don't see how it's really that threatening 2 get the hammer, and it's really not difficult to fit something like scrafty + offensive pressure or a rhyperior or w.e.!!

 

[Punchshroom]

On one hand, offense still has outs against Tyrantrum, namely things like Seismitoad, Rhyperior, Torterra, Intimidate Scrafty, even Gurdurr that can still hold off TRex. Meanwhile, we still have some defensive stalwarts like Mega Steelix, Hitmontop, physically defensive Bronzong and even Gastrodon that can also counter TRex pretty nicely. On the surface level, TRex just seems like a necessary threat that teams everywhere need to prepare for, like Mega Glalie and Durant.

What bugs me about TRex is how risk-free it is, or rather how lopsided its risk-vs-reward factor is. The sheer threat of a spammable 150 BP Rock STAB is already very centralizing, since it doesn't need any additional boost to punch holes in teams. Scarf Head Smash alone has the power to 2HKO things like Virizion, Flygon, offensive Tangrowth, and mixed Def Alomomola; that kind of raw, unboosted damage is insane against resists (which are not even that frail) and some of the most physically defensive Pokemon in the tier that just let up a bit in bulk investment. From there, Tyrantrum can freely adjust its moveset while the rest of the tier has to contend with what it throws at them; let's not forget Head Smash isn't Tyrantrum's only brutally powerful move, as TRex can fall back on strong attacks such as Outrage and Superpower if the situation calls for it.

Tyrantrum's sheer offensive potential is already scary enough, but its resistance to Flying and 4x Fire resist means it manages to throw in defensive utility into the mix and find common switch-in opportunities, which is already more than most offensive Pokemon can boast and makes TRex more splashable than ever. The high Defense also gives Tyrantrum good sustain and ensures that even super effective priority like Ice Shard and Mach Punch will not bring it down in a hurry. Finally, most of Tyrantrum's switch-ins have no reliable recovery, so it is often incredibly easy to just put enough pressure on them to the point where TRex can just clean with Head Smash, which I've seen happen far too often since Head Smash sweeping is one of the most straightforward yet successful game plans in RU. Of course, TRex itself can chip in and wear down its own counters with its powerful secondary moves, which can sufficiently punish / cripple a mistimed switch in just one use. Alternatively, you can just patch up against Tyrantrum counters in one fell swoop with a teammate like Life Orb Tangrowth, Sigilyph, Rotom-C, Mega Abomasnow, etc. because they are all kind of exploitable.

Tyrantrum is not invincible, but it is really easy to see that it has a lot of advantages compared to the rest of RU that make it very centralizing. I'm still not too sold on calling TRex broken, but it'd likely be better for meta diversity if it were to get the boot.

 

[termi]

since we're discussing if tyrantrum is unhealthy for the meta (smth i personally don't even believe but that's my opinion etc) i don't think we're really qualified to make a judgement on it unless we play a meta without tyrantrum, compare it with our current meta, and see if the meta improved so significantly that it's worth banning tyrantrum. unless we have a suspect ladder without tyrantrum/a number of tyrantrum-less suspect tours i think this suspect test is entirely null & void.

 

[Miyami~~]

since we're discussing if tyrantrum is unhealthy for the meta (smth i personally don't even believe but that's my opinion etc) i don't think we're really qualified to make a judgement on it unless we play a meta without tyrantrum, compare it with our current meta, and see if the meta improved so significantly that it's worth banning tyrantrum. unless we have a suspect ladder without tyrantrum/a number of tyrantrum-less suspect tours i think this suspect test is entirely null & void.

That would be an interesting idea.

As it is, I believe Tyrantrum is Tyrantrum. It does what it's supposed to do. Wether or not that's too much to the tier depends on the team you face. If you are facing a Defense or Balanced team, you have problems if something like Escavalier or Amamalama can take your hit, though Amamalama can't knock you out back. Against Offense, Tyrantrum tears through just about everything.

 

[phantom]

since we're discussing if tyrantrum is unhealthy for the meta (smth i personally don't even believe but that's my opinion etc) i don't think we're really qualified to make a judgement on it unless we play a meta without tyrantrum, compare it with our current meta, and see if the meta improved so significantly that it's worth banning tyrantrum. unless we have a suspect ladder without tyrantrum/a number of tyrantrum-less suspect tours i think this suspect test is entirely null & void.

This isn't really possible because of how the current suspect process works right now. Given that anyone who qualifies can vote, aka people who've never played the tier prior to the suspect (that are capable of influencing the outcome of the suspect), it makes it kinda pointless to have a no Tyantrum ladder when those who'd be qualifying for the sake of getting a badge wouldn't know whether or not Tyrantrum was unhealthy for the tier or not. It's also not possible to do two ladders at once because having to get reqs twice is not only unnecessarily tedious (also a reason why interchanging ladders is just an ugly idea in general), but splitting the RU ladder in two would result in one of those ladders being quite barren as evidenced by past suspects in lower tiers that attempted this. Perhaps if this was a council-based voting system like it should be, where several people who have been longstanding RU players could be picked to vote alongside the council based on their level of contributions to the suspect, then setting up a non Tyrantrum ladder would be feasible. This probably isn't the right place to discuss this, but I just wanted to clarify why something like this can't be done atm before too many continually ask about it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Miyami~~]

How can you tell your B value? Or is there a different thread I should ask this in?

 

[LeoLancaster]

How can you tell your B value? Or is there a different thread I should ask this in?

B value is not individual, it is the same for everyone; in this particular suspect test, 9. The B value is part of the formula for calculating COIL: N=B/log2(40*GXE/2800). What you are interested in is your GXE, which determines the number of games you must play to achieve the required COIL value for reqs; you can find that by using the /rank command on Showdown.

So, if you had a GXE of say, 76.6, you could put both your GXE and the B value corresponding the to suspect test into the formula, and then calculate it. Luckily plugging an equation into Google search will tell you the answer, so you don't have to do any difficult math. 9.0/log2(40*76.6/2800) <-- this google search gives a value of 69.2, which means, if you have a GXE of 76.6, in order to get 2800 COIL for this particular suspect test using a B value of 9, you would need to play 70 matches (69.2, rounded up).

This might've been more than than you were asking for, but hopefully it helps you on your journey to reqs :)

 

[atomicllamas]

Hi, so as explained in the OP, the main focus of this suspect test is the following: are the traits that Tyrantrum brings to the meta game overly restrictive for building offensive teams in the current meta game. One reason that this was felt to be the case, is the lack of offensively inclined Steel-types in RU which actually resist Rock-type moves. The most obvious choice of steel when you are building offense is Durant, which unfortunately doesn't actually match up all that well against Tyrantrum, unless Durant is Scarfed or Tyrantrum is locked into Outrage. The next most popular choice when building an offensive RU team when looking at possible Steel-types, would be Mega Steelix, which while it is a very good counter to Tyrantrum, it always ends up kind of turning the team into almost a balanced build. Escavalier has both of these problems, and Bronzong on offense just kills momentum. However, I think there have been some pretty cool overlooked Steel-types which have suddenly, especially after the drop become pretty good, even without the constant threat of Tyrantrum. The first one, that I've been using to ladder, is really nice on offense, because its actually a pretty sturdy Rock resist and it provides a shit ton of utility.

Magneton @ Eviolite
Ability: Magnet Pull
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Magnet Rise
- Hidden Power [Water]
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon

Alright this set might look a little strange, but actually Omfuga was talking to me about Magnet Rise Magneton like 2 meta games ago in order to trap Mega Lix for Berd offense. I built an offense team that was actually really good except it got auto 6-0ed by Tyrantrum if I didn't win a speed tie with my own scarf Tyrantrum, so I shuffled some things around and I remembered this set. Its really cool because unlike other offensive teams which usually have to use Ground-type (or Intimidate Scrafty / Gurdurr) + Granbull or Durant to cover Choice Scarf Tyrantrum, you can do it in one slot with smart play. This set also has the ability to Trap Mega Steelix, walls the shit out of SD Mega Abomasnow, and any Mega Abomasnow lacking Focus Blast, and it also serves as a decent check to Fletchinder and Pursuit Sneasel, which are two other mons offense hates. I like HP water because Flash Cannon + HP Water always kills and HP Water sometimes kills by itself after rocks. HP Fire is also an option (Escavalier). But yeah, this is a pretty neat set, and pairs well with Exploud, SD Abomasnow, Scarf Tyrantrum, Drapion, anything that hates Mega Lix, etc.

I've also seen user 49 do some cool things with Custap Lix, which fits better on all out offense than Mega Steelix especially since you can pair it with Mega Abomasnow or Mega Glalie, so thats another pretty cool option. As I said another option is Ground / Scrafty + Fairy / Ant in order to cover Tyrantrum on offense which needs slightly better prediction in order to play around Tyrantrum, but I just wanted to throw out what I've been using on offense to beat Tyrantrum. I think it would be fruitful to discuss how you've been dealing with Tyrantrum on offense. I've seen a lot of Tyrantrum + Mega Abomasnow offense because Abomasnow forces in Steel-types (and obliterates Ground-types), does this influence your thoughts at all on the matter?

As for myself right now, I'd say I'm probably gonna end up voting no ban, I definitely think that Tyrantrum is really annoying in the team builder when you are trying to build offense, but I don't think its unnecessarily restrictive to the point that offense is no longer effective (or good) in the current meta game. Just another thing to think about while team building, like Mega Abomasnow when trying to build anything that is on the more defensive side of things.

 

[atomicllamas]

Hi, thecrystalonix has graciously agreed to host a live tour in order to qualify for suspect reqs. This tour will be at 5 pm EST and sign ups will be posted in this forum.

If it is a...

- 64 man tournament, only the Top 2 (Finals) players get to vote.
- 96 man tournament, only the Top 3 (Finals) players get to vote.
- 128 man tournament, only the Top 4 (Semi-Finals) players get to vote.
- 192 man tournament, only the Top 6 (Semi-Finals) players get to vote.
- 256 man tournament, only the Top 8 (Quarter-Finals) players get to vote.

If its less than these, only the tournament winner will reqs. If the winner already has received reqs by laddering, we may reward reqs to the runner up(s), but this probably also depends on the size of the tour. Be there or be square.

 

[Miyami~~]

Hi, thecrystalonix has graciously agreed to host a live tour in order to qualify for suspect reqs. This tour will be at 5 pm EST and sign ups will be posted in this forum.

If it is a...

- 64 man tournament, only the Top 2 (Finals) players get to vote.
- 96 man tournament, only the Top 3 (Finals) players get to vote.
- 128 man tournament, only the Top 4 (Semi-Finals) players get to vote.
- 192 man tournament, only the Top 6 (Semi-Finals) players get to vote.
- 256 man tournament, only the Top 8 (Quarter-Finals) players get to vote.

If its less than these, only the tournament winner will reqs. If the winner already has received reqs by laddering, we may reward reqs to the runner up(s), but this probably also depends on the size of the tour. Be there or be square.

Where do we sign up for this?