Inheritance [Prime Council Elected]

[I like donkeys]

I agree with motherlove and shruggy, illusion is far more dangerous than protean. The problem with illusion imo is that it's no longer stuck to Zoroark. In standard you at least know something could be an imposter because you see Zoroark in the team preview, so you can prepare for it somewhat. But here literally ANYTHING could have illusion, and it doesn't have to be stuck with Zoroark's meh stats.

There are some cases where illusion can almost GUARANTEE 2 pokemon ded. How? Well imagine Gengar impostered to something like raikou, Gengar gets the kill on something, then the adaptability espeed user comes in. Guess what, the adaptability user ded as well, and the player couldn't do anything about it unless they somehow knew or predicted it had illusion. For all they know the Gengar could have some kind of sheer force set.

That's why i think Illusion should have higher priority over protean.

 

[Ghoul King]

I'd like to see Protean go, but I also agree that Illusion is way more toxic, even though Protean is much more of a staple on teams. The ability to surprise people, with literally zero way of guessing what's under the Illusion even if you infer the thing in front of you has Illusion, is ridiculous.

Coverage thunder doesn't OHKO from base-110 sp attk, actually. The only common Kyogre user I've seen below that is Greninja, but he's pretty common in the score range I play. Starmie still kills, but is less common.

I tested both Weavile and Ninjask, and Crobat has a more reasonable defensive typing, given that this is a utility mon. The 4x fighting/grass resist and ground immunity gives pretty consistent switches.

Generally I think it helps to get the right user for your team, but fast spore is great on HO or balanced offense teams I've toyed around with, and dry skin is really just icing on the cake.

Thundurus-Therian is a common Primordial Sea user, and I also have seen Raikou and a handful of other Electric types. (I think I even saw a Magnezone one once?) I didn't necessarily mean coverage Thunder, and anyway Stealth Rock does turn it into a OHKO for coverage, even off Greninja's lower Special Attack.

I could also make an argument for using one of the faster Grass types instead, so bounced Spore isn't a problem. (Actually, now that I think of it, I'm kind of surprised Shaymin-Sky isn't unbanned. Is there a reason for that, @Snaquaza?) Virizion and Sceptile are the obvious choices, and they can inherit from Breloom if you want Grass STAB. (You lose Knock Off and I guess Poison Jab too, admittedly, but you gain Attack and Sceptile's Speed loss isn't that bad) Dry Skin is admittedly less useful to a Grass type, but it's not irrelevant and Virizion in particular has enough Special bulk to tank stuff like Ice Beam.

252 SpA Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Virizion: 136-160 (41.9 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

(For some reason the calculator doesn't include Dry Skin's rain-healing effect, but even with Stealth Rock there's only a 20~% chance of a 2HKO and it won't actually be that because of Dry Skin healing in Heavy Rain. With a Life Orb it's usually a 2HKO, but nobody runs Primordial Sea Life Orb, that's stupid)

 

[madryx]

Hey, trying to run a Blissey set inheriting from Sableye, can anyone tell me why it's illegal?

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Will-o-Wisp
- Recover
- Wonder Room
- Metal Burst

 

[Akumeoy]

252 SpA Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Virizion: 136-160 (41.9 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

(For some reason the calculator doesn't include Dry Skin's rain-healing effect, but even with Stealth Rock there's only a 20~% chance of a 2HKO and it won't actually be that because of Dry Skin healing in Heavy Rain. With a Life Orb it's usually a 2HKO, but nobody runs Primordial Sea Life Orb, that's stupid)

People do run Specs Primsea though, which cleanly 2HKOs with Ice Beam -- admittedly that does force them out after the Dry Skin is revealed, but from then on it's a mindgame.

I'm honestly of half a mind to call for a suspect on primal weathers, because they require very specific answers on stall teams (Regenvest Goodra is a great special sponge in general, but you pretty much just have that or Kingdra) and the only offensive checks are all either shaky (take >50% switching into Eruption and hoping to outspeed) or niche (offensive Flash Fire sets?). Balance can fake its way through them a bit better, but it's still mildly hellish. Protean and probably Illusion are up first though (one by fiat, the other by being arguably uncompetitive) so I'll just wait.

Hey, trying to run a Blissey set inheriting from Sableye, can anyone tell me why it's illegal?

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Will-o-Wisp
- Recover
- Wonder Room
- Metal Burst

Inheriting from Prankster Sableye is illegal, as described in the first post (I think? It should be there if it isn't). You either have to use Magic Bounce (from Mega Sableye) or inherit from something else.

Also, slot 3 should probably be Taunt, not Wonder Room. And it should be Chansey with maximum Defense and minimum Speed (Relaxed nature).

 

[Jajoken]

Also, slot 3 should probably be Taunt, not Wonder Room. And it should be Chansey with maximum Defense and minimum Speed (Relaxed nature).

I think it being max Special Defense Blissey with Prankster Wonder Room was intentional. Kind of a neat gimmick -- you can switch between having godlike Special bulk and godlike Physical bulk with a priority move, then recover off damage, spread burns and hit back with Metal Burst. I'd try this set if, as pointed out, Sableye inheritance wasn't banned. Sadly the only other option is Meowstic, which has no recovery, so better luck next time.

 

[Lemon Ginger]

Here's a dumb, but surprisingly effective Hoopa-C set. This comes from Liepard. I think it has only had any form of success for me due to being unexpected.

Hoopa @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Copycat
- Encore/Taunt/Dream Eater


It can go in against most special attackers. Nasty plot, shadow ball, and then copycat to get priority +2 shadowballs. Copy cat also lets it revenge kill other strong special attackers. The last slot is used to mess with chansey and other walls. Unless it's some wacko sweeper chansey, it can't do much to you. If for some reason the opponent tries to rest-talk you, you can just taunt them or use dream eater for healing.

Stupid, but fun.

 

[Akumeoy]

I think it being max Special Defense Blissey with Prankster Wonder Room was intentional. Kind of a neat gimmick -- you can switch between having godlike Special bulk and godlike Physical bulk with a priority move, then recover off damage, spread burns and hit back with Metal Burst. I'd try this set if, as pointed out, Sableye inheritance wasn't banned. Sadly the only other option is Meowstic, which has no recovery, so better luck next time.

For some reason, I thought Wonder Room was the one that disabled items. Even then, honestly, I'd run a 252+ Def / 252 SpD spread, because you can't always properly predict which side you're about to get hit from, and you might save a turn or two of Wonder Rooming that you might not otherwise.

Here's a dumb, but surprisingly effective Hoopa-C set. This comes from Liepard. I think it has only had any form of success for me due to being unexpected.

Hoopa @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Copycat
- Encore/Taunt/Dream Eater


It can go in against most special attackers. Nasty plot, shadow ball, and then copycat to get priority +2 shadowballs. Copy cat also lets it revenge kill other strong special attackers. The last slot is used to mess with chansey and other walls. Unless it's some wacko sweeper chansey, it can't do much to you. If for some reason the opponent tries to rest-talk you, you can just taunt them or use dream eater for healing.

Stupid, but fun.

Dream Eater seems, uh, absurdly niche, given that fast/Prankster Encore and Taunt are incredibly good. With Prankster, you might have luck going with Substitute in that last slot as well.

 

[Locket Rauncher]

Edit: Yeah for what my opinion is worth Illusion is terrible. It's not amazing, but with a knowledgeable user it takes at least 2 down against offensive teams. It's unexpected because it's no longer tied to Zoroark and very BS to play against.

Thundurus-Therian is a common Primordial Sea user, and I also have seen Raikou and a handful of other Electric types. (I think I even saw a Magnezone one once?) I didn't necessarily mean coverage Thunder, and anyway Stealth Rock does turn it into a OHKO for coverage, even off Greninja's lower Special Attack.

I could also make an argument for using one of the faster Grass types instead, so bounced Spore isn't a problem. Virizion and Sceptile are the obvious choices, and they can inherit from Breloom if you want Grass STAB. (You lose Knock Off and I guess Poison Jab too, admittedly, but you gain Attack and Sceptile's Speed loss isn't that bad) Dry Skin is admittedly less useful to a Grass type, but it's not irrelevant and Virizion in particular has enough Special bulk to tank stuff like Ice Beam.

252 SpA Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Virizion: 136-160 (41.9 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

(For some reason the calculator doesn't include Dry Skin's rain-healing effect, but even with Stealth Rock there's only a 20~% chance of a 2HKO and it won't actually be that because of Dry Skin healing in Heavy Rain. With a Life Orb it's usually a 2HKO, but nobody runs Primordial Sea Life Orb, that's stupid)

Yeah, I can see a faster grass type as being a good inherit for primordial sea counter, but the point of this set originally was to obtain momentum on a fresh switch, either as an anti-lead or revenge killer. The primordial sea check is compelling but for Crobat relies on opponent's lack of knowledge (that has been the case so far, but cannot be assumed when evaluating competitively). That is why it was listed in the same line as "immune to scald".

Note that a significant portion of this particular set is the speed, which allows it to deal with other anti-leads (important for my hyper-offense team), as well as revenge against fast hitters. Relevant threats that this neutralizes because of speed include Alakazam (non-mega or upon mega evo), Gengar, Weavile, Terrakion, and Greninja. Sceptile loses to Greninja and Weavile and ties Alakazam.

This set has been particularly relevant lately against Gengar. Timid sheer force Gengar cannot OHKO with 24 HP investment and no hazards, and Knock-Off OHKO's in return. None of the variants I have run into can KO with anything other than Shadow Ball, and people seem to default to sludge wave for power. Switching in on a predicted Focus Blast or Earth Power is absolute money. Coverage ice beam isn't a thing as far as I've seen, and I doubt it will be considering the decreased relevance against steel or dark, depending on the replaced move.

Grass ignoring a bounced spore is a pretty interesting reason to switch the recipient, if you're concerned about magic bounce.

Mega-Sceptile might be an interesting choice for this set. Higher speed, higher attack, and a definite fairy-type lure. Unfortunately the weakness to priority only gets worse because of Weavile and Espeed M-altaria.

 

[bp scrub]

Here's a dumb, but surprisingly effective Hoopa-C set. This comes from Liepard. I think it has only had any form of success for me due to being unexpected.

Hoopa @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Copycat
- Encore/Taunt/Dream Eater


It can go in against most special attackers. Nasty plot, shadow ball, and then copycat to get priority +2 shadowballs. Copy cat also lets it revenge kill other strong special attackers. The last slot is used to mess with chansey and other walls. Unless it's some wacko sweeper chansey, it can't do much to you. If for some reason the opponent tries to rest-talk you, you can just taunt them or use dream eater for healing.

Stupid, but fun.

Hm ive been trying this out, and its really fun when it does work.

Riolu gets the same Prankster + Copy Cat + Swords Dance, might be fun using it on a Physical attacker?

 

[SpartanMalice]

Achieved 1400 ELO, will edit my post with my vote soon since I've yet to properly encounter chatter (I've only seen it once on a mega pidgeot towards the tail end of my run) and hence can't accurately gauge.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Chatter has been banned

The Immortal do it bby

 

[Snaquaza]

Confirming the above. Thanks for helping AllJokesAside, I've been rather out of the metagame.

 

[Mr Spaz]

Anybody think this might work?

Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Levitate
- Heavy Slam
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake
- Rock Polish

Inherits from Bronzong. Levitate pre-Mega so you can switch in on a predicted Earthquake, then Mega and crush everything with Heavy Slam. Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Plots to kill me?

 

[Lemon Ginger]

Hm ive been trying this out, and its really fun when it does work.

Riolu gets the same Prankster + Copy Cat + Swords Dance, might be fun using it on a Physical attacker?

Yeah I've tried the SD variant as well and it's pretty good. Rhyperior can spam earthquakes while being hard to take down on physical side. Machamp hits even harder with CC or even HJK if youre crazy. Both these hit harder than hoopa on a neutral equal-defense mew, machamp outright OHKOing at +2. Then again, hoopa is immune to espeed and it's not to hard to willowisp

 

[Manchamp]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-294485200

Here's a replay demonstrating Protean Rampardos. The battle certainly could have gone on but Ramp destroyed so hard I don't think much would have changed

 

[Akumeoy]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-294485200

Here's a replay demonstrating Protean Rampardos. The battle certainly could have gone on but Ramp destroyed so hard I don't think much would have changed

oh my god protean rampardos is such a meme please stop this shit

Compare Landorus-Therian and Haxorus as Protean users.

Bulk:
252+ Atk Life Orb Staraptor Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 192-227 (60.1 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Staraptor Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Haxorus: 192-227 (65.5 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Staraptor Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rampardos: 266-316 (79.4 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (neutral typing)

252+ SpA Life Orb Pixilate Togekiss Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 309-367 (96.8 - 115%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Pixilate Togekiss Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Haxorus: 344-407 (117.4 - 138.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO (neutral typing)
252+ SpA Life Orb Pixilate Togekiss Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rampardos: 446-526 (133.1 - 157%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Landorus-Therian has ~32-36% more bulk than Rampardos.

Speed:
252-invested Adamant Rampardos hits 215. Landorus-Therian with no investment at all hits 218, and 76 Speed outpaces Jolly Rampardos. Haxorus is even faster, requiring almost no investment to be faster than all Rampardos.

Power:
252+ Atk Life Orb Protean Landorus-T Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 188-224 (55.1 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Protean Haxorus Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 192-227 (56.3 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Protean Rampardos Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 208-247 (60.9 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

All of the above for a whopping ten-percent damage increase over vastly more competent Protean users.

Not to mention:

• Landorus-Therian gets two immunities to switch into, while Haxorus gets a few different resistances on the switch-in if you're getting worried about stacking weaknesses or whatever.
• Landorus-Therian can run special moves decently off of 101 Special Attack. It's a full 50% more damage than Rampardos, with identical items/EVs.
• Landorus-Therian has a bunch of other sets, which means that you aren't immediately predictable -- this can be devastating. Rampardos, in contrast, can ONLY run Protean effectively (I think? Does it have any other notable sets?), and then it nearly MUST run multiple priority moves, making it very predictable.

Also, your replay sucks. T1: Steel-type switchin absorbs Fake Out effortlessly. T2: Even taking the team's general weakness to Kecleon inheritors as a given, pretty much anything that Ferrothorn could have done was superior to just pivoting out for low damage. T3: Yeah, send Gardevoir against a priority abuser, top-tier idea. T4: Chokes so hard I tried to give the Heimlich maneuver through my screen.

If only all opponents could be too high to battle, maybe then Rampardos's true potential could be unlocked.

TL;DR Love yourself. Don't use Rampardos.

 

[Da Random Bro]

So I had posted my team earlier, made some changes, and wanted a critique. At first I wrecked lives with this team, but as of late it has not won too much, and is getting a bit stale. Any suggestions would be helpful.

Shady (Umbreon) (M) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic

Savage (Pinsir-Mega) (M) @ Pinsirite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance

Da Random Bro (Porygon-Z) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Boomburst
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam
- Surf

Skull Kid (Marowak) (M) @ Thick Club
Ability: Protean
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Ice Punch
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch

Ultraviolet (Gengar) (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt

Clarent (Doublade) (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Atk / 132 Def / 124 SpD
Impish Nature
- Shadow Claw
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog
- Pain Split

Umbreon is a good lead/scout with great bulk and recovery, Pinsir is a good setup sweeper, Porygon-Z comes in and kills a lot with Scarf Scrappy Boomburst, Marowak has amazingly high attack coupled with STAB on everything, Gengar has great coverage and powerful attacks coupled with Sheer Force/LO, and Doublade is an outstanding physical wall even if it loses its Eviolite.

My main drawbacks with this team are Gengar, which puts in minimal use, and Marowak, which I have been thinking about replacing with Haxorus/Lando-T or something. Again, suggestions appreciated and thanks.

 

[Lcass4919]

So I had posted my team earlier, made some changes, and wanted a critique. At first I wrecked lives with this team, but as of late it has not won too much, and is getting a bit stale. Any suggestions would be helpful.

Shady (Umbreon) (M) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic

Savage (Pinsir-Mega) (M) @ Pinsirite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance

Da Random Bro (Porygon-Z) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Boomburst
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam
- Surf

Skull Kid (Marowak) (M) @ Thick Club
Ability: Protean
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Ice Punch
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch

Ultraviolet (Gengar) (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt

Clarent (Doublade) (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Atk / 132 Def / 124 SpD
Impish Nature
- Shadow Claw
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog
- Pain Split

Umbreon is a good lead/scout with great bulk and recovery, Pinsir is a good setup sweeper, Porygon-Z comes in and kills a lot with Scarf Scrappy Boomburst, Marowak has amazingly high attack coupled with STAB on everything, Gengar has great coverage and powerful attacks coupled with Sheer Force/LO, and Doublade is an outstanding physical wall even if it loses its Eviolite.

My main drawbacks with this team are Gengar, which puts in minimal use, and Marowak, which I have been thinking about replacing with Haxorus/Lando-T or something. Again, suggestions appreciated and thanks.

in my opinion, replace marowak with lando/hax(both fit decently, albeit haxorus probably helps with some nice resistances) replace porygon z with meloetta(really its just a bulkier pz but with a weakness to dark and bug instead of fighting, alongside some coolish resists), and maybe try running focus blast over tbolt on gengar? usually gengars moveset is its downfall, and allthough ive tried fire blast, focus blast seems to help it with many of its common switchins.

oh and run focus blast on pz/meloetta, im guessing your the type to dislike "focus miss and co" but in reality, its basically a "risk reward filler move" on gengar and melo anyways, since boomburst/gengars stabs are going to be the commonly used moves on like....99% of the meta. its nice to have a "wild card" to smack down certain pokes who otherwise wall the crap out of them.

 

[StuckInTheMuk]

oh my god protean rampardos is such a meme please stop this shit

Compare Landorus-Therian and Haxorus as Protean users.

Bulk:
252+ Atk Life Orb Staraptor Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 192-227 (60.1 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Staraptor Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Haxorus: 192-227 (65.5 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Staraptor Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rampardos: 266-316 (79.4 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (neutral typing)

252+ SpA Life Orb Pixilate Togekiss Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 309-367 (96.8 - 115%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Pixilate Togekiss Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Haxorus: 344-407 (117.4 - 138.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO (neutral typing)
252+ SpA Life Orb Pixilate Togekiss Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rampardos: 446-526 (133.1 - 157%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Landorus-Therian has ~32-36% more bulk than Rampardos.

Speed:
252-invested Adamant Rampardos hits 215. Landorus-Therian with no investment at all hits 218, and 76 Speed outpaces Jolly Rampardos. Haxorus is even faster, requiring almost no investment to be faster than all Rampardos.

Power:
252+ Atk Life Orb Protean Landorus-T Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 188-224 (55.1 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Protean Haxorus Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 192-227 (56.3 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Protean Rampardos Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 208-247 (60.9 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

All of the above for a whopping ten-percent damage increase over vastly more competent Protean users.

Not to mention:

• Landorus-Therian gets two immunities to switch into, while Haxorus gets a few different resistances on the switch-in if you're getting worried about stacking weaknesses or whatever.
• Landorus-Therian can run special moves decently off of 101 Special Attack. It's a full 50% more damage than Rampardos, with identical items/EVs.
• Landorus-Therian has a bunch of other sets, which means that you aren't immediately predictable -- this can be devastating. Rampardos, in contrast, can ONLY run Protean effectively (I think? Does it have any other notable sets?), and then it nearly MUST run multiple priority moves, making it very predictable.

Also, your replay sucks. T1: Steel-type switchin absorbs Fake Out effortlessly. T2: Even taking the team's general weakness to Kecleon inheritors as a given, pretty much anything that Ferrothorn could have done was superior to just pivoting out for low damage. T3: Yeah, send Gardevoir against a priority abuser, top-tier idea. T4: Chokes so hard I tried to give the Heimlich maneuver through my screen.

If only all opponents could be too high to battle, maybe then Rampardos's true potential could be unlocked.

TL;DR Love yourself. Don't use Rampardos.

Hey man just because you think he used a bad set doesn't mean you can be a jerk about it. Saying his replay "sucked" may be kinda true but it's still a bad way to go about things and makes you a less likable person. People skills>argument.

I really do agree with you though that Haxorus and LandoT, among Azelf and Latios are much more threatening Protean users. I believe the discussion is over AJA calling for a Protean suspect. I think this is weird tho. Magic bounce Chansey and Illusion Genger or whatever isn't more harmful to the meta? Just a thought.

Please guys. Argue points but don't be rude

 

[Da Random Bro]

in my opinion, replace marowak with lando/hax(both fit decently, albeit haxorus probably helps with some nice resistances) replace porygon z with meloetta(really its just a bulkier pz but with a weakness to dark and bug instead of fighting, alongside some coolish resists), and maybe try running focus blast over tbolt on gengar? usually gengars moveset is its downfall, and allthough ive tried fire blast, focus blast seems to help it with many of its common switchins.

oh and run focus blast on pz/meloetta, im guessing your the type to dislike "focus miss and co" but in reality, its basically a "risk reward filler move" on gengar and melo anyways, since boomburst/gengars stabs are going to be the commonly used moves on like....99% of the meta. its nice to have a "wild card" to smack down certain pokes who otherwise wall the crap out of them.

Thanks. Any recommended movesets for Haxorus? Probably very similar to Marowak's.
I personally don't really want to put Focus Blast on Gengar, but I would entertain the idea on Melo/P-Z. I'll probably end up keeping P-Z due to its equal speed and better Special Attack (it's supposed to be a glass cannon).

 

[Manchamp]

Thx Muk, I appreciate that.
Really tho, the only reason I posted that replay is because I read about how the suspect test and went out and did a battle. I thought, "wow, protean really messed up my opponent, maybe someone without a clue as to why it's suspected can watch this and see its a really good thing." I seriously wasn't saying "this is why protean should be banned, because Rampardos = Arceus" and is the reason it should be banned". That's..stupid. Rampardos and Marowak were discussed a lot previously, so I tried it out. Big whoop.

That said, yes Haxorus and LandoT make great Protean users. Thanks for bringing that to everyone's attention. I think I'll do another battle using Hax over Ramp to better my team

So I had posted my team earlier, made some changes, and wanted a critique. At first I wrecked lives with this team, but as of late it has not won too much, and is getting a bit stale. Any suggestions would be helpful.

Clarent (Doublade) (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Atk / 132 Def / 124 SpD
Impish Nature
- Shadow Claw
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog
- Pain Split

I've tried out this Doublade set for a while, and it really suffers because Pain Split is just not good for him. Physical offense generally doesn't have high HP because of base stats or because they attack with LO or recoil inducing moves, and take multiple hits. Doublade really needs that recovery, and he just doesn't get it from Pain Split.

My suggestion would be Flygon. You can keep Levitate and Defog, which I'm assuming are the crux of the set, otherwise use Mbounce or Flash Fire. You lose WoW and ghost STAB, but gain UTurn and ROOST. Doublade is slow enough that Roost will hardly ever expose him to ground moves. You can use Steel Wing for STAB or just run a high BP coverage move like EQ, dragon whatever, crunch/return, idk whatever u want. I like Roost, U Turn, Defog, and Steel Wing/Toxic.

Also for anyone's reference, Flygon is a widely forgotten learner of Boomburst. If you don't want Exploud, Chatot, Noivern, or Swellows movepool, Flygon's diverse one is always available. (Scrappy is usually best with it, but just to let y'all know, Flygon gets it.)

 

[Da Random Bro]

I've tried out this Doublade set for a while, and it really suffers because Pain Split is just not good for him. Physical offense generally doesn't have high HP because of base stats or because they attack with LO or recoil inducing moves, and take multiple hits. Doublade really needs that recovery, and he just doesn't get it from Pain Split.

My suggestion would be Flygon. You can keep Levitate and Defog, which I'm assuming are the crux of the set, otherwise use Mbounce or Flash Fire. You lose WoW and ghost STAB, but gain UTurn and ROOST. Doublade is slow enough that Roost will hardly ever expose him to ground moves. You can use Steel Wing for STAB or just run a high BP coverage move like EQ, dragon whatever, crunch/return, idk whatever u want. I like Roost, U Turn, Defog, and Steel Wing/Toxic.

THANKS! Doublade has been pretty good at eating hits, but not actually doing anything besides occasional hazard removal. Finally, I can get this thing to have some recovery for once while still having Defog and Levitate.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

I honestly prefer Illusion suspect than Protean. Illusion is more into "uncompetitive" because it basically guarantees one or two kills, almost like Shadow Tag. In standard, only Zoroark and Zorua gets Illusion, which means you can expect it if you see one in team preview. In here, everyone can use it, meaning you won't know who uses Illusion or not. This is what make guaranteed kills. Also, Zoroark has a pretty good Physical and Special movepool, making it more painful to handle.

Hey man just because you think he used a bad set doesn't mean you can be a jerk about it. Saying his replay "sucked" may be kinda true but it's still a bad way to go about things and makes you a less likable person. People skills>argument.

I really do agree with you though that Haxorus and LandoT, among Azelf and Latios are much more threatening Protean users. I believe the discussion is over AJA calling for a Protean suspect. I think this is weird tho. Magic bounce Chansey and Illusion Genger or whatever isn't more harmful to the meta? Just a thought.

Please guys. Argue points but don't be rude

It is harmful to the meta. In fact, I'd say inheriting from Mega Sableye is also suspect worthy. It's just people are calling for suspect the things that trouble them.

"If everything is broken, then nothing is." Basically everything is broken here so that people called for Protean, Mega Altaria, Primal Weathers, Mega Pinsir suspect. This why I try to refrain from calling suspect for anything in this meta if it's based on brokeness (I'd still call for suspect if it's uncompetitive). If the meta is intended to be broken, then why fix it? I just want Illusion to be suspected based on uncompetitiveness, not brokeness.

And also, banning things are basically "taking out one aspect of the meta that made it fun." This is why I like smogon's policy of "as few bans as possible," so no need so many bans.

Edit: also, one of the things I want to avoid is too much bans like old STABmons. To prevent them, simply refrain to call for suspect to many things.

 

[Jajoken]

RE: Protean Users

I don't personally use them, but Landorus-T is probably the best user simply due to the fact that it has other sets. Why does this matter for its Protean set? Well, if you see Marowak/Rampardos/Haxorus it's ALWAYS going to Protean triple priority. I've literally seen one other Marowak set and nothing else from the other two. Meanwhile, Landorus more often runs Speed Boost and Aerilate. Unexpectedness is often better than straight power -- I ran into a little trouble against a Protean Snorlax because I expected the Breloom set and switched into the wrong Pokemon. If it was something like Haxorus, I would've known what to expect.

 

[motherlove]

So I had posted my team earlier, made some changes, and wanted a critique. At first I wrecked lives with this team, but as of late it has not won too much, and is getting a bit stale. Any suggestions would be helpful.

Shady (Umbreon) (M) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic

Savage (Pinsir-Mega) (M) @ Pinsirite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance

Da Random Bro (Porygon-Z) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Boomburst
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam
- Surf

Skull Kid (Marowak) (M) @ Thick Club
Ability: Protean
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Ice Punch
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch

Ultraviolet (Gengar) (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt

Clarent (Doublade) (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Atk / 132 Def / 124 SpD
Impish Nature
- Shadow Claw
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog
- Pain Split

Umbreon is a good lead/scout with great bulk and recovery, Pinsir is a good setup sweeper, Porygon-Z comes in and kills a lot with Scarf Scrappy Boomburst, Marowak has amazingly high attack coupled with STAB on everything, Gengar has great coverage and powerful attacks coupled with Sheer Force/LO, and Doublade is an outstanding physical wall even if it loses its Eviolite.

My main drawbacks with this team are Gengar, which puts in minimal use, and Marowak, which I have been thinking about replacing with Haxorus/Lando-T or something. Again, suggestions appreciated and thanks.

On top of what others just said, I'd run u-turn on umbreon for some much needed momentum since your offensive mons can't really switch on anything, also koff > ice punch on protean especially if you go haxorus since the nb counter to tc haxorus is doublade. Apparently Jajoken says haxorus is always protean, I disagree with that and also caught a few things off guard with protean haxorus but you can use lando, your call really.

Pretty sure roost doesn't cancel levitate, only flying type. Iron tail / defog / roost / u-turn would fit well and gives you even more momentum.