Tier 10

[Magnemite]

Approved by Eevee General, original meta by people who aren't me, look at this thread http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/tier10.3471475/

Currently run by myself, Imanalt, and atomicllamas

Hi, so in this metagame, all Pokemon available at level 10 are legal, but only with egg moves, level up moves before level 10 (so no breeding level up moves from higher levels), and event moves (because of this technicality, Tangrowth, Lickilicky, and Yanmega aren't allowed despite being obtainable with legal movesets at level 10). This leads to a centralized yet fun metagame with a surprising number of viable playstyles and Pokemon. It's also really interesting to play a metagame where the top mons are things like Nasty Plot / Ominous Wind / Mystical Fire / Power Gem Mismagius and Sucker Punch / Glare / Fire Fang / Thunder Fang Druddigon.

Banlist:

Dialga
Palkia
Giratina
Dragon Rage
All mega stones

Viability Rankings (only tested things are included for now, we'll keep it updated)[/hide

S-rank

• 
  Arcanine
  
• 
  Ferroseed
  
• 
  Mismagius
  
• 
  Starmie

A-rank

A+

• 
  Aerodactyl
• 
  Honchkrow
  
• 
  Kangaskhan
• 
  Ninetales
• 
  Rotom-W

A

• 
  Cinccino
• 
  Druddigon
• 
  Heracross
• 
  Lucario
• 
  Regigigas
• 
  Roserade
• 
  Togekiss

A-

• 
  Gliscor
• 
  Mantine
• 
  Scizor
• 
  Tangela
• 
  Weavile

B-rank

B+

• 
  Jirachi
  
• 
  Relicanth
  
• 
  Steelix

B

• 
  Chatot
  
• 
  Milotic
  
• 
  Musharna

B-

• 
  Froslass
  
• 
  Heliolisk

C-rank

C+

• 
  Celebi

C

• 
  Pineco

C-

• 
  Natu

D-rank

• 
  Trapinch

untested mons that are probably at least decent, bold mons look really good

Skarmory
Tropius
Absol
Rotom-A
Cloyster
Spiritomb
Maractus
Archen
Accelgor
Vullaby
Sudowoodo
Stunfisk
Torkoal
Escavalier
Hawlucha
Gourgeist
Qwilfish
Emolga
Simipour
Simisear
Simisage
Scraggy
Wigglytuff
Mawile
Slowking
Snorlax
Whimsicott
Raichu
Pikachu
Pinsir
Ditto

 

[MK]

Quick question: how do EVs work? Is it similar to LC?

 

[Magnemite]

Quick question: how do EVs work? Is it similar to LC?

Kind of, with the majority of mons 236/236/36 is the spread you want to use but it's different with base stats that aren't a multiple of 5. The EV sliders in the teambuilder are helpful for this too.

 

[Ununhexium]

Are mega stones allowed

Because mega kangaskhan is pretty cool

 

[Magnemite]

Are mega stones allowed

Because mega kangaskhan is pretty cool

No, we decided not to because all of them would be broken

 

[atomicllamas]

Quick question: how do EVs work? Is it similar to LC?

Yes, the slider is your best friend, it is slightly different in that it after the first stat it only takes 40 EVs to raise a stat one point (instead of 80).

If anyone is looking to try this meta out, here is a quick run down, the meta has its own version of the VGC CHALK core, FAMS. Ferroseed, Mismagius, Arcanine, and Starmie are incredibly good in this meta game, in spite of the fact none of them have more than 5 usable moves (in fact Starmie's only 4 moves are Recover Hydro Pump Rapid Spin and Swift). Arcanine and Starmie are the best stops to Drought NP Ninetales, which is incredibly threatening in the meta game (as such Arcanine runs Flash Fire), Ninetales can also replace Arcanine in the FAMS core, if you are going more offensive. There are 5 main items in the meta game, Leftovers (only for mons with recovery, think Aerodactyl (roost), Starmie (recover), Arcanine (Morning Sun), Togekiss (Morning Sun)), Eviolite (for NFE's), Life Orb (certain set up mons such as agility Lucario, some Starmie sets), Berry Juice (other set up mons, I like it on Mismagius and Ninetales but Imanalt uses LO, and utility mons w/o recovery Druddigon, Rotom-W, Rotom-H, Kanga), and Choice Scarf (Rotom-W, Heracross, Honchkrow). There are no pokemon with Will-o-Wisp or Toxic, and only Hypnosis Ninetales, Roserade, and Tangela have access to sleep moves, so Rotom formes are great status absorbers.

common moves on each pokemon

Arcanine - Morning Sun, Flare Blitz, Close Combat, Body Slam, Crunch
Ferroseed - SR, Spikes, Leech Seed, Seed Bomb
Starmie - Hydro, Rapid Spin, Swift, Recover
Mismagius - Nasty Plot, Ominous Wind, Mystical Fire, Power Gem (it can use Magical Leaf, but its worse than mystical fire)

Ninetales - NP, Flamethrower, Extrasensory, Hex, Hypnosis
Lucario - agility, extremespeed, dragon pulse, high jump kick, blaze kick, close combat, crunch, bullet punch, metal claw
Druddigon - Sucker Punch, Glare, Fire Fang, Thunder Fang
Cincinno - Tail Slap, Bullet Seed, Rock Blast, Knock Off
Rotom-A - Discharge, Signature move, Thunder Wave, Trick (if Scarf), Confuse Ray (if not scarf)

Mantine - Signal Beam, Hydro Pump, Tailwind, Psybeam, Mirror Coat
Honchkrow - Pursuit, Roost, Sucker Punch, Brave Bird
Aerodactyl - Roost, Pursuit, Fire Fang, Wing Attack
Togekiss - NP, Roost, Air Slash, Aura Sphere

But yeah, if you want to use something else I'd go to bulbapedia, and use any move in level up section learned before level 10, or any listed in the egg moves section !

 

[EV]

Ayy get Ninetales and Starmie out of the way and Curse Steelix can start setting up. Little fear of burns (which only exist as secondary effects), can't be statused otherwise. Too bad there's no RestTalk.

 

[Sweep]

Hi! Just popping by to say that Rotom-W is very effective in this metagame. The Trick set is capable of ruining its best practical check in Ferroseed, whereas the Berry Juice set makes talented but exceptionally unlucky players such as myself cry with the combination of Thunder Wave and Confuse Ray. Since reliable recovery is less common in this metagame than in others, confusion (and parafusion in particular) can be agonizingly effective. Access to STAB Hydro Pump and Discharge is also incredibly useful. Although there are times it really misses Will-O-Wisp (particularly against Ferroseed), and it is fodder for the viable Roserade, Rotom-W is a Pokemon that every serious team needs to be prepared for.

 

[Tymano]

Im surprised you forgot about all these mons. Cloyster, Chansey/ Blissey, The Eeveelutions, The Porygon line, Roserade, Milotic, Froslass, Slurpuff, and Aromatisse all seem important in their own right.

Edit; nvm didn't notice these.

 

[atomicllamas]

Im surprised you forgot about all these mons. Cloyster, Chansey/ Blissey, The Eeveelutions, The Porygon line, Roserade, Milotic, Froslass, Slurpuff, and Aromatisse all seem important in their own right.

Edit; nvm didn't notice these.

Chansey / Blissey don't get recovery, Eeveelutions get 0 (good) moves, Porygon line can't breed, has mediocre movepool, Slurpuff's best move set would be BDrum tackle o_o, Aromatisse is maybe viable, but only attack is fairy wind.

IDK how the hell we missed Cloyster though ._.

 

[antemortem]

Porygon has practically zero options.

I've found that Nasty Plot Togekiss is pretty great, and so is Scarf Moxie Honchkrow. They both helped me successfully destroy the Tier 10 Tier Leader, atomicllamas. Honchkrow might only get three or so viable moves, but the fourth slot can be experimented with as a means of a revenge kill tool (see: Mirror Move!) and it's a devastating killer that nobody suspects.

 

[Imanalt]

Porygon has practically zero options.

I've found that Nasty Plot Togekiss is pretty great, and so is Scarf Moxie Honchkrow. They both helped me successfully destroy the Tier 10 Tier Leader, atomicllamas. Honchkrow might only get three or so viable moves, but the fourth slot can be experimented with as a means of a revenge kill tool (see: Mirror Move!) and it's a devastating killer that nobody suspects.

Honchkrow gets a bunch of very good moves. On nonscarfed sets you can run roost, sucker, pursuit, and brave bird, and on scarf you can just replace roost with night slash.

My problem with nasty plot togekiss in this meta is that while it matches up really well against more defensive teams, there are so many mons that are really hard to switch into that I feel the meta as it is now is pretty offensively oriented, and so togekiss struggles with its mediocre speed.

 

[leng loi]

I was thinking about using Sneasel with a set of Ice Shard/Ice Punch/Pursuit/Taunt on Hazards offense to trap starmie but then I realized they speed tied. I know there will be a lot of really good mons that people haven't thought of yet. I saw that Hawlucha gets two decent STABs and Hone Claws before level 10. I was also wondering if people just hadn't seen Scizor or if it's illegal for some reason. A set of Bullet Punch, Pursuit, Defog, and Baton Pass could be really good. Especially since it baits out some of the better mons in the tier like Arcanine and Mismagius.

 

[antemortem]

Honchkrow gets a bunch of very good moves. On nonscarfed sets you can run roost, sucker, pursuit, and brave bird, and on scarf you can just replace roost with night slash.

I did say "or so".

I was thinking about using Sneasel with a set of Ice Shard/Ice Punch/Pursuit/Taunt on Hazards offense to trap starmie but then I realized they speed tied.

So use Weavile? It outspeeds Starmie and is literally Sneasel's superior.

 

[leng loi]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/customgame-295763798 Fun game I had with ANTEMORTEM , and yeah I guess I just forgot how Sneasel evolved. I definitely should not have come out on top that game.

 

[atomicllamas]

After playing a couple more games, I think the following can be changed on the viability rankings, Cincinno, Lucario, and maybe Druddigon should fall to A (we have a shit ton in A+ rn), Honchkrow should be added to A+, as Moxie Scarf is ridiculous, Kanga and Regigigas should switch places, Kanga does a lot better on common spike stacking teams thanks to Fake Out + Circle Throw. Mantine and Scizor should for sure fall to A- and Roserade should move up to A. Weaville can probably be added to A-.

proposed A rank

A+
Aerodactyl
Honchkrow
Kangaskhan
Ninetales
Rotom-W

A
Cinccino
Druddigon
Heracross
Lucario
Regigigas
Roserade

A-
Gliscor
Mantine
Scizor
Tangela
Weaville

 

[Magnemite]

Hi so I'm going to talk about a really cool yet underrated mon in the metagame: Trapinch. So many mons are walled by Ferroseed that it makes it easily worth the teamslot. Here's the set I've been using (and really the only set you could feasibly use)

Trapinch @ Eviolite
Ability: Arena Trap
Level: 10
EVs: 236 HP / 236 Atk / 36 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Bite
- Bulldoze
- Sand Attack

Funnily enough Ferroseed and Trapinch have the same base speed, so with just one extra point of speed you can always outspeed it. I've been using a team of Trapinch + 3 mons that are walled by Ferro and not much else, and it's been working surprisingly well. Here's a replay of it in action (ignore me choking at the end lol)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ounomega-295851361

 

[EV]

I have not tested this yet but I think it could do some work in the tier:

@ Berry Juice / Eviolite
Ability: Huge Power
Level: 10
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spe (or more bulk?)
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Aqua Jet
- Superpower
- Body Slam

Adamant hits 38 Attack or 152 after Belly Drum. Make sure to pack your Roserade to check Rotom-W.

 

[atomicllamas]

Alright well I changed the viability rankings to my things, cause no complaints, but I'm open to changing it back if people disagree, also posting to say that Scarf Honchkrow is incredibly easy to sweep with, and provides a nearly guaranteed win in terms of hazard control w/ Pursuit for opposing Mismagius and Starmie. Please run Jolly for Aerodactyl though, as it gets bopped by Night Slash.

Replay of me vs sweep, where Kanga weakens the only flying resist in the tier and then Honchkrow wins once I sacked my Ferroseed to Arcanine for chip damage, because Brave Bird hits so hard, I coulda have swept with Night Slash had I lost the speed tie against Mismagius (which was my plan).

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ounomega-296040736

 

[dhelmise]

tbh I really like cloyster because it can use practically the same set as in standard UU and it still works stupendously

At least, the set that I use does :^]

Cloyster @ King's Rock
Ability: Skill Link
Level: 10
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 236 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Razor Shell
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast

Focus Sash can also be used but is easily broken by hazards and doesn't flinch the foe :<

Jolly gives more speed, adamant gives more power

Etc

Glad to see this metagame up and running again though so gj with that

I would provide replays but I didn't save them bc I'm stupid

 

[Martin]

Why do I have a hunch that Ferroseed and Trapinch creep wars are gonna be big...

 

[leng loi]

gamer boy there should be a spread that ohkos Ferro and avoids the 2hko from See Bomb so it shouldn't matter. On phone rn so I can't give any great details.

One of my favorite mons right now is Zapdos. Along with its great stats and typing, it has reliable recovery, Thunder Wave, and dual STAB (even if one of the STABs is Zap Cannon). It has a great typing for the meta and does a great job of combining it's bulk and speed to spread paralysis.

 

[EV]

gamer boy there should be a spread that ohkos Ferro and avoids the 2hko from See Bomb so it shouldn't matter. On phone rn so I can't give any great details.

One of my favorite mons right now is Zapdos. Along with its great stats and typing, it has reliable recovery, Thunder Wave, and dual STAB (even if one of the STABs is Zap Cannon). It has a great typing for the meta and does a great job of combining it's bulk and speed to spread paralysis.

You can get Zapdos at level 10?

 

[Martin]

There are a lot of random legends available at low levels. I wouldn't be surprised tbh.

Actually, it'd be good if someone could compile a list of all legal legendary Pokemon, because it is rather difficult to know which are available and which aren't.

edit: also WTF Starmie learns literally every move it runs in standard without even needing to gain a level as Staryu .-.

 

[Magnemite]

Yeah I'm like 99% sure Zapdos isn't legal, the only legal legends I'm aware of are Jirachi, Celebi, and Regigigas (and the banned Sinnoh box trio).

Also I can't really see Ferro ever creeping Trapinch when Trapinch is very niche and uncommon and every point means a lot in this. Also, Trapinch can never OHKO Ferroseed unless it runs a boosting item which is a pretty horrible idea since it's really reliant on Eviolite.