UU Speed Tiers

rs

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On tr hoopa it's probably a good idea to outspeed base 65 uninvested outside of tr to give it more utility vs balance because umbreon, it's not too hard to run it with a dark soak that can abuse tr (machamp comes to mind) while perts EQ can be easily covered by good ole megasnow who is a pretty optimal mega for semi TR teams and snipes most of the mon's hoopa needs setup to break + packs prio.

For non TR hoopa's I would draw the line at creeping adamant base 80's you need timid but frankly no team enjoys swapping into adamant mamoswine. (but I just hate speed ties)

Edit: 24 speed IV hoopa can safely outspeed 8 speed umbreon outside of TR with a modest nature.

244 timid hoopa outspeeds adamant mamo
I definitely wouldn't want to run 244 Timid on Hoopa. Reason is pretty much the same as to why Mega Aerodactyls tend to run max speed. Ultimately, the bulk will have almost no effect (I think it can invest 40 EVs in bulk to just outrun Timid Mega Sceptile and Jolly Mega Beedrill) and you lose out on speed ties with opposing Aerodactyls. Speed ties can pretty much make or break a game sometimes, they can really be huge. As for Hoopa, I really don't see 8 EVs being put into bulk doing much for Hoopa as its Def will stay lackluster but if you invest in SpDef it will pretty much stay great. For the TR set I think that could be a good idea although Baton Pass umby can creep hard on the IVs to outslow Vaporeon so it might not have a concrete speed that it runs.

I think it might be worth adding Hoopa now, since it sits at a pretty interesting speed tier with a base 70. These are the ones that I came up with, if anyone has any suggestions for other sets let me know, I've seen some no speed CM Hoopa's and some others that just creep certain mons like Honchkrow but I don't think those are popular enough to warrant being added.

(Tier 2 - Max Speed Timid LO Set)
262 / Hoopa / 70 / +Spe / 252 / 0

260 / Porygon-Z / 90 / Neutral / 176 / 0
259 / Chandelure, Gallade, Kabutops, Mamoswine, Stoutland / 80 / Neutral / 252 / 0

(Tier 3 - Modest LO Wallbreaker Set)
239 / Hoopa / 70 / Neutral / 252 / 0

239 / Cloyster, Ludicolo, Magneton / 70 / Neutral / 252 / 0
236 / Scrafty / 58 / +Spe / 252 / 0
235 / Exploud / 68 / Neutral / 252 / 0

(Tier 4 - Offensive Trick Room Set)
130 / Hoopa / 70 / -Spe (0 IVs) / 0 / 0

126 / Ampharos-Mega, Granbull / 45 / Neutral / 0 / 0
116 / Camerupt, Forretress, Rhyperior / 40 / Neutral / 0 / 0

Also just a small change but most Crobat's tend to run 236+ now to outspeed Adamant Mega Bee/Modest Mega Scep so I think that should be added as well even if its pretty much max speed
Also going to add this set to Hoopa sets that I came up with. I've seen this one around quite a bit as well even though Hoopa should be able to switch moves anyway
(Tier 1 - Scarf Hoopa)
393 / Hoopa / 70 / +Spe / 252 / +1

392 / Rhyperior / 40 / +Spe / 252 / +2
390 / Meloetta-P / 128 / +Spe / 252 / 0
389 / Beedrill-Mega, Sceptile-Mega / 145 / Neutral / 252 / 0
 
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the 244 option is more to offer up offer options for mixed sets which have insanely tight ev spreads. With 110 atk and usable coverage I see those becoming a thing eventually

(adamant maero can sink 40ish hp if you run 252 atk, jolly can sink up to 168 while outrunning neutral mbee and mscept, jolly outspeeding +1 gatr can sink 68-88 depending on what coverage you're running)
 
So I've been wondering about something. When does Beedrill or Sceptile (but mostly Beedrill) ever NOT run Jolly? Losing on 252+ Crobat just sounds like a bad idea.
 

Adaam

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Because Bee isn't touching Crobat anyway, so Adamant is better. Modest Scep is just a preference
 

YABO

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Uhh the most common way to remove bat on a team with bee is just 2hkoing after rocks and some prior damage with pjab. It happens a ton and thats why you outspeed crobat.
 

Adaam

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I mean you could do that or U-Turn out and switch to a crobat check and have it take 35% from rocks and uturn. I wasn't aware that Beedrill was the most common way to remove Crobat.
 
Also can we get adamant mega glalie at 299. It still outspeeds base 85s and has priority (if you are questioning viability)
 

CoolStoryBrobat

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Either I'm blind or there aren't listings for +1/+2 positive natured Feraligatr up there.

+1 is 420, +2 is 560 speed.
I guess it's cause I never really got much wind of Jolly DD Feraligatr, and as a result ended up never putting it up there, thanks. Added.
 
Should be 242 to outspeed Adamant Honchkrow and Tyrantrum. That's been standard for a long time now (or was at one point).

EDIT: Nevermind, those are already there. Do you lose bulk to any significant (and I mean SIGNIFICANT) KOs with 24 EVs?
 

CoolStoryBrobat

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I just added some placeholder speed tiers of various potential sets for Charizard, Crawdaunt, Diancie, Gardevoir, Manectric, Metagross, Sableye, and Venusaur. These sets like I said, are placeholder sets based on stuff I'd assume people would run, even the more niche things that if you somehow ran into you need at least not worry what Speed they hit because I got them covered here. As per usual with all new/relevant mons in the tier, they'll be highlighted in red for a while for ease of access.

As time goes on and the metagame takes shape, these sets/spreads will change as well. If there's anything noteworthy or trending already that should be changed, just let me know.
 

CoolStoryBrobat

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Late but I finally added Gyarados to the Speed Tiers thread. I only put Adamant/Jolly max Speed because personally I feel those are the only solid benchmarks worth listing thanks to Gyarados' convoluted Speed tier. If you wanna run a bulky DD set feel free to use the thread as a reference on what to creep, but please don't suggest one here unless it ends up being an official UU set.

...Also can this thread get re-stickied plz?!
 

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