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Super Mystery Dungeon (Spoilers abound!)
- Thread starter sickweare
- Start date
There's a difference between posting random story crap and going "lol the real bad guy was an eldritch abomination the entire time". I already spoiled myself on the game but it's not out yet in America or Europe, and several of us have been posting spoilers in hide tags anyway for the sake of everyone else.
Sounds like the very opposite of a kid's game. Maybe I should be seriously considering picking this up. Are you able to grind to compensate a little for the sharp level rises?
WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?! I had to beat the game at level 19 because the exp gains from kills are utter CRAP!!!
Eldritch abomination? On second thought, I didn't really spoil as much as I thought I did. I'll leave you guessing on who and what the villain is, amigo :D
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Got my copy today. Quiz gave me both my main char and partner results (Torchic and Treecko) but wanted to see the rest. Amazed the mons are given some nice early moves (Dragon Rage Charmander sticks out), which is suspiciously generous. Except for giving Tepig Heavy Slam.
Will have to play it later though, given 3ds has low battery. ;_;
Will have to play it later though, given 3ds has low battery. ;_;
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Now that I finally have the game, I can give my input. Of course, given how much I loved (and still love) PMD Sky, I'll end up comparing everything in this game to it whether I want to or not. Oh well.
The graphics are really nice! I thought I would miss the pixel art sprites of the old games, but I actually don't as much. Also, the new method of choosing moves (Hold L and press A/B/X/Y) is incredible - I know one thing I didn't like about Sky was having to open a menu every time you wanted to choose a set move. The partner's dialogue is really cute, too - in particular, since I chose Snivy, in the beginning part when the partner is following you around bombing you with questions, all I could think was "Stop poking me with your nose!".
Of course, there are a few things that could be improved. The control system in dungeons is a bit clunky, and I often find that when I'm inputting a bunch of commands in succession, later ones may not register. But since I'm transitioning from Sky, I think it's just a matter of time before I get used to the new timing (and then go back to Sky and mess everything up). Also, I *love* the ability to push your teammates, but... really, you should switch places with them by default and hold B to push, not the other way around. I swear, the number of times I've given Snivy a good ol' shove when I just meant to switch with her...
Anyway, I mainly play Mystery Dungeon for two things: the music and the story. I'm still way too early in the game for the story to have really materialized (Current dungeon: School Forest), so I can't really comment on it. But the music... honestly, I haven't heard any really memorable tracks yet, though again I probably just need to stop comparing it to Sky. :P
And finally, I love how the only option for your character besides the starters and Pikachu is Riolu.
The graphics are really nice! I thought I would miss the pixel art sprites of the old games, but I actually don't as much. Also, the new method of choosing moves (Hold L and press A/B/X/Y) is incredible - I know one thing I didn't like about Sky was having to open a menu every time you wanted to choose a set move. The partner's dialogue is really cute, too - in particular, since I chose Snivy, in the beginning part when the partner is following you around bombing you with questions, all I could think was "Stop poking me with your nose!".
Of course, there are a few things that could be improved. The control system in dungeons is a bit clunky, and I often find that when I'm inputting a bunch of commands in succession, later ones may not register. But since I'm transitioning from Sky, I think it's just a matter of time before I get used to the new timing (and then go back to Sky and mess everything up). Also, I *love* the ability to push your teammates, but... really, you should switch places with them by default and hold B to push, not the other way around. I swear, the number of times I've given Snivy a good ol' shove when I just meant to switch with her...
Anyway, I mainly play Mystery Dungeon for two things: the music and the story. I'm still way too early in the game for the story to have really materialized (Current dungeon: School Forest), so I can't really comment on it. But the music... honestly, I haven't heard any really memorable tracks yet, though again I probably just need to stop comparing it to Sky. :P
And finally, I love how the only option for your character besides the starters and Pikachu is Riolu.
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Hopefully, I'll finally get my first job soon, and I might celebrate my first paycheck by getting this. Either that, or I've been wanting to try finding Chrono Trigger for the DS.
And no, I've never played Chrono Trigger, but the more I hear about it, the more I want to play it (time travel, preventing the apocalypse, yay!!! :D)!
And no, I've never played Chrono Trigger, but the more I hear about it, the more I want to play it (time travel, preventing the apocalypse, yay!!! :D)!
I love the hell out of Ampharos, especially the irony in that he has zero sense of direction for a mon known for being used in lighthouses.
Anyways, on Chapter 13 and splurged money on all passes when I could. Still sad at seeing the Lati twins turned to stone.
Anyways, on Chapter 13 and splurged money on all passes when I could. Still sad at seeing the Lati twins turned to stone.
Edit:
I love finding nice gems on side missions...
Flareon: By the way, Espeon and Umbreon love to play with—
Espeon: N-no, Flareon!
Umbreon: T-that's preposterous
In context, Flareon may have been talking about magnagates if that was the GTI pair.
Espeon: N-no, Flareon!
Umbreon: T-that's preposterous
In context, Flareon may have been talking about magnagates if that was the GTI pair.
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I got the game earlier this week and am up to chapter 15. I'm playing as a Fennekin with a Treecko partner. :)
Here is a smattering of my thoughts:
--
Having previously played PMD: Blue and Darkness before, (skipping over Gates to Infinity), I appreciated how familiar the game's mechanics and AI were. The one thing that muscle memory has failed me was the inclusion of 'push' being the default behavior for moving onto a partner's square rather than swapping. That's led me to wasting a lot of Belly points.
--
I've heard that PSMD was challenging, and, compared to the other two games, I'd have to agree. I wouldn't say it's Nintendo Hard, though.
In general, there is a lot more strategy and planning involved. For instance, in the other PMD games I've played (given that I skipped over Gates), I could spam the default 'A' attack for most of a dungeon and save my PP for times that I really needed it. Now that the default A attack deals only 5 damage, I had to strategically manage the PP of my Pokemon's moves. No longer could I run through a dungeon without needing a single Elixir!
There's a lot more planning required for non-storyline dungeons, too! I was skeptical when the game gave me level 50+ Pokemon from missions when my team was barely level 20, but it seems the developers knew what they were doing. I could take those high-level Pokemon on a romp through a regular dungeon, but they would be inaccessible later if I wanted to clear a dungeon with a 'Super Difficult' difficulty, and those high-level Pokemon were pretty much needed to finish those missions.
--
I'm pretty far into the game's storyline, and I will say that it hasn't quite impressed me yet. Other people have said that the story is slow to start, and I definitely agree with that. The first half of the game's story was very saccharine. I mean, it brought a smile to my face, but it lacks the depth the other PMD games played have. I appear to be at the 3/4ths mark and only now are tensions starting to increase!
Granted, this being a PMD game, I am expecting some delicious twist where a Pokemon assumed to be malevolent is benevolent and vice versa. :P If that's the case though, it seems to really take its time.
--
The 'connections' system is way more elegant than the old 'recruiting' one! There's no pressure to keep a Pokemon alive in a dungeon, and there's no need to manage recruit repeats. It appeals a lot more to the collector. :)
--
Some dribs and drabs:
Edit:
Edit:
Okay! Credits have rolled, and I'll provide some non-spoilery comments. My characters were at level 27. I took my time, talking to everyone, exploring nooks in dungeons, doing as many missions as the storyline allowed me to fit. I like how the developers ended the main storyline! I've noticed in Blue/Darkness that the game was primarily about the player character, but it's nice to see the partner getting equal attention! I'm sure this'll be developed on in the post-game, though!
Hoopa is very useful to have in those solo dungeons. You can smuggle the Djinn Bottle in to get around the 'no teammates' clause!
Edit: Okay, now that I've had a day to get my thoughts in, I'd rate the game a solid 8.5/10. It satisfied my expectations, but there were parts I thought could be improved.
Here is a smattering of my thoughts:
--
Having previously played PMD: Blue and Darkness before, (skipping over Gates to Infinity), I appreciated how familiar the game's mechanics and AI were. The one thing that muscle memory has failed me was the inclusion of 'push' being the default behavior for moving onto a partner's square rather than swapping. That's led me to wasting a lot of Belly points.
--
I've heard that PSMD was challenging, and, compared to the other two games, I'd have to agree. I wouldn't say it's Nintendo Hard, though.
In general, there is a lot more strategy and planning involved. For instance, in the other PMD games I've played (given that I skipped over Gates), I could spam the default 'A' attack for most of a dungeon and save my PP for times that I really needed it. Now that the default A attack deals only 5 damage, I had to strategically manage the PP of my Pokemon's moves. No longer could I run through a dungeon without needing a single Elixir!
There's a lot more planning required for non-storyline dungeons, too! I was skeptical when the game gave me level 50+ Pokemon from missions when my team was barely level 20, but it seems the developers knew what they were doing. I could take those high-level Pokemon on a romp through a regular dungeon, but they would be inaccessible later if I wanted to clear a dungeon with a 'Super Difficult' difficulty, and those high-level Pokemon were pretty much needed to finish those missions.
--
I'm pretty far into the game's storyline, and I will say that it hasn't quite impressed me yet. Other people have said that the story is slow to start, and I definitely agree with that. The first half of the game's story was very saccharine. I mean, it brought a smile to my face, but it lacks the depth the other PMD games played have. I appear to be at the 3/4ths mark and only now are tensions starting to increase!
Granted, this being a PMD game, I am expecting some delicious twist where a Pokemon assumed to be malevolent is benevolent and vice versa. :P If that's the case though, it seems to really take its time.
--
The 'connections' system is way more elegant than the old 'recruiting' one! There's no pressure to keep a Pokemon alive in a dungeon, and there's no need to manage recruit repeats. It appeals a lot more to the collector. :)
--
Some dribs and drabs:
- I really like being able to rename the protagonists and team--especially since the prompt for the team name was a little confusing to me.
- I hope I don't exhaust the left shoulder button on my 3DS like I did my right! @_@ I'm able to play the game with a broken right shoulder button, but I'm afraid the game will break my left one given how I need to press it for every attack.
- There was one instance where a Machoke used Seismic Toss and took out a Sandshrew that was on the dungeon floor (not my teammate), taking it out and evolving into Machamp from beating a fellow dungeon Pokemon. That was an interesting interaction of game mechanics.
- Do the decisions you make actually make a difference? I selected the option that my partner could be annoying at times, and that seemed to influence his behavior for the next day in the story.
- I squeed at the PMD: Red/Blue reference I got upon completing Ninetales's rescue mission. :D I know there are a lot more references out there, but this one was delightful.
Edit:
- Can certain 'unbeatable' bosses be beaten? Jirachi and Entei (first time) seemed exceedingly powerful (healing 160 health in two turns!?), and seem to require my characters being beaten for storyline reasons.
- Yep! Chapter 16, suddenly, everything's going amok! Twists, evil, and a huge increase in seriousness. :P Maybe a bit too jarring a change in mood. Let's see.
- Woah, you get the Legendary Beasts as tagalongs. :D Stuff is really intense now. But the ramp-up is a bit too sudden.
- Chapter 20: There we go! There's the double-crossing and plot twists I expect from PMD! I was expecting Nuzleaf to be controlled by Dark Matter, but now I'm not sure if it's really his own volition. :P
- Wow, everything after the Yveltal fight is pretty awesome. :D The soundtrack is impressing me! But it's rather narmy to see a Fennekin headbutting an opal sphere. The ending is very traditional of JRPG-style games, what with an Eldritch Abomination boss with multiple stages in space. Bring lots of Reviver Seeds!
Edit:
Okay! Credits have rolled, and I'll provide some non-spoilery comments. My characters were at level 27. I took my time, talking to everyone, exploring nooks in dungeons, doing as many missions as the storyline allowed me to fit. I like how the developers ended the main storyline! I've noticed in Blue/Darkness that the game was primarily about the player character, but it's nice to see the partner getting equal attention! I'm sure this'll be developed on in the post-game, though!
Hoopa is very useful to have in those solo dungeons. You can smuggle the Djinn Bottle in to get around the 'no teammates' clause!
Edit: Okay, now that I've had a day to get my thoughts in, I'd rate the game a solid 8.5/10. It satisfied my expectations, but there were parts I thought could be improved.
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I love how the guild members in Time/Darkness appear in this game. Just one thing that bugs me, though... when you team up with Chatot to rescue Wigglytuff (ignoring the fact that Wigglytuff shouldn't even need to be rescued), Chatot referes to the Guildmaster as "she", even though Wigglytuff is confirmed male in the Explorers games.
It bugs me more than it should...
It bugs me more than it should...
Finally found this thread :)
Has anyone been able to get all the treasures yet? Also I think the 2 biggest cons with the game, would be the lack of EXP gain, and the post game being extremely short. Beating the game at level 25 just sounds weird and they should've added more to make us at least 30 or 36 would've been better imo.
Has anyone been able to get all the treasures yet? Also I think the 2 biggest cons with the game, would be the lack of EXP gain, and the post game being extremely short. Beating the game at level 25 just sounds weird and they should've added more to make us at least 30 or 36 would've been better imo.
The only advice I've heard is to blow on the underside of the button to attempt to dislodge any dust that's stuck there (lift up the button as much as possible and blow into the gap, or use a can of compressed air if you have one). I've personally done this on a DS Lite with decent success (no clue if there are any major differences between that and a 3DS). In a pinch, I've also found that the button seems to respond more often when pressed closer to the inside corner rather than the outside edge, though that might just make it wear out faster.
They're not unbeatable. I beat both the Jirachi battle and the pre-evo and post-evo battles with Entei on the first try - it seems that either winning or losing to certain bosses doesn't hinder story progression? If the only thing that changes is dialogues, it's an interesting change in order to not discourage struggling players.
Though if you want to talk about bullshit, Oblivion Wing Yveltal seriously takes the cake lol
Though if you want to talk about bullshit, Oblivion Wing Yveltal seriously takes the cake lol
For anyone already in the post-game... what's the point in evolving Pokemon, specifically the starter Pokemon? They don't seem to change stats and, for LC mons, their low HP for post game dungeons is horrid. Considering that it seems you can get every mon with the Connection Orb system... I seriously don't see the point.
Speaking of which, I absolutely love the Connection Orb system in contrast to past PMD games... sure the RNG aspect of it was cute, but it makes it much more feasible to collect all of the Pokemon. The references are pretty damn awesome as well. The main gripe with it would be that many Pokemon are left on the wayside due to the static levels they come in - this is different in past PMD games where you could go to a post game dungeon to recruit high level Pokemon. The system makes it so Pokemon with high evolution levels, such as Bisharp and Hydreigon (if you haven't gotten this thing at level 64, please do), have a big advantage when choosing partners.
Have ~150 out of 720 connections so far. Excited to see what comes next as I go along.
Movepools basically to take advantage of better TMs and the Hawlucha move tutors, and if you're a Kanto/Hoenn starter or Riolu there's the ability to Mega Evolve. You still get at least one of each evolutionary line even for the Pokemon you chose as your starter and they always have the possibility of taking breaks unlike your starter and partner, so there are some benefits. There's pretty much no benefit to evolving anything except the starter and partner though (I almost exclusively used fully evolved starter + fully evolved partner + gigantic legendaries later personally). Stat boosting items are going to be the biggest influences regardless of what you use though. Even for the some of the late post-game dungeons, raw levels were nowhere near enough even for major level 70 legendaries.
The one thing I don't understand is the point of including the speed stat in the game. Does having more speed mean you can attack twice against an opponent with less than half your speed, or do you just move faster in the dungeon?
Also, this is just an idea, but maybe after evolving, your stats might increase more upon leveling up due to having higher base stats? I currently have a Monferno, and I gain 2 attack, 2 special attack, and 2 speed each time I level up, and my Grovyle partner has gained 2 or 3 speed from a single level up, so I think if that's true, then that would be the only other benefit other than movepool for evolving the starters. For me, Chimchar had Double Kick (which is extremely good to have) as an Egg Move to start off the game, so I was able to gain it as a stab move upon evolving. I still hate having 66 HP at level 28 -_- cause that means I can barely tank 2 hits, and it's horrible when I get hit by a long range move like Razor Wind, Dragon Breath, Flamethrower, etc.
Also, this is just an idea, but maybe after evolving, your stats might increase more upon leveling up due to having higher base stats? I currently have a Monferno, and I gain 2 attack, 2 special attack, and 2 speed each time I level up, and my Grovyle partner has gained 2 or 3 speed from a single level up, so I think if that's true, then that would be the only other benefit other than movepool for evolving the starters. For me, Chimchar had Double Kick (which is extremely good to have) as an Egg Move to start off the game, so I was able to gain it as a stab move upon evolving. I still hate having 66 HP at level 28 -_- cause that means I can barely tank 2 hits, and it's horrible when I get hit by a long range move like Razor Wind, Dragon Breath, Flamethrower, etc.
The hardest boss is freaking Yveltal. It took me 10 tries, and funny enough, the last time, I found 5 reviver seeds in the dungeon, and didn't need a single one (Truant Wand is the best since they can't undo that one). Also, I currently have the Water Looplet from Coballion, and the Sand Looplet from Genesect, but those looplets are in the 3rd list out of the 4 that are there. Coballion isn't that hard to beat, but the Genesect dungeon was hell. It's 8 floors of Genesect, and each one has Signal Beam or Techno Blast (which tends to 1HKO and there are all the different drives (water, electric, ice, fire), so you're never safe. The final floor was a weird diagonal shape of Genesect, so I had to petrify orb and then walk around. For the first time, I actually had to spend the whole 8 floors running away, spamming wands, because the Genesect had over 120 HP, so I couldn't 1HKO them, and they can 1HKO back. I ended up using 5 reviver seeds, and I think it would've been easier if we were able to have higher stats, because the only dungeons that are "easy" are the ones on water continent, and the rest of them can still be difficult.
Speed actually directly affects accuracy, although that's all it does besides influence Gyro Ball/Electro Ball. The faster you are relative to the opponent, the more accurate you are (and now suddenly all the accuracy issues make sense). Not sure as to exactly how much Speed factors into it but you definitely feel it if you try some of the scarier post-game boss fights too early. The manual actually mentions it too but nobody actually reads those. And you know, why not just actually say that in the game but RPGs and ambiguous stats isn't anything new I guess.
I'll preface what I'm about to say with I've only just defeated "giratina". Avoided pretty much all spoilers so cant really say where I am beyond that, but this criticism could totally not apply to late game. That also means I haven't read the whole thread, just a few pages, if this was already brought up a lot then sorry, but sorta wanted to get this out somewhere and it certainly applies to the early game.
Anybody else feel the dungeons are really generic? The first two installments (yes I'm totally genwunner over this series) felt totally different. There was a plot reason for all the early game dungeons you went to, they had great distinguishing soundtracks (Sky's OST is probably my favorite of any game) and all the enemies obviously fit in. Themes like Team Charm's, which I don't even like, are incredibly memorable because of the way they really fit the game, and there are so many cool quirks like Azurill's Nightmare leeching your belly faster like it's trying to kill you and clear differences between water dungeon/standard field dungeon/fire dungeon/etc. From where I'm at in the game, most of the dungeons get thrown in your missions. There's little to distinguish trainee cave from peewee something. I cant even remember their names, I could tell you the names of Sky's plot dungeons in order for the most part (not an exaggeration, although I also overplayed the game as a kid so hard). What's so memorable or special about generic foes without a real theme in generic dungeons that are either grassy or stony and sometimes have water and don't really have memorable themes to back them up? The difference between your first generic dungeon with Nuzleaf that I cant even remember and Beach Cave, with a beachy background, beachy foes, and an actual boss at the end of the first dungeon is just so noticeable. And I can still remember the basic outline of its soundtrack, it really draws you in. This game is a massive step forward from Gates to Infinity already, but I wish everything wasn't so generically tossed in. I didn't mind going to the dungeons the game told me to, not if waterfall cave was cool and memorable. It's always the same basic format, why not make me remember the name of the dungeon I literally just completed? So far the best they did was the haunted house thingy and that still had generic dungeon foes that fit in plenty of other dungeons, as opposed to, for example, Mount Thunder having a pretty obvious roster that off the top of my head was Cacnea, Electrike, Mareep, Manectric, Arcanine...I could go on but yeah. I'm sure there'll be more as the plot picks up, but this is probably my biggest gripe with the game.
edit: weather was also pretty defining, great way to shake it up was throwing in clouds in random floors on mount travail, distinguishing foggy forest, making certain levels of ice/sand dungeons much more obnoxious, etc.
On the bright side, after Salamence I thought any potential strategy or difficulty was going to be removed with "spam wand and hit them", hated that boss battle so much, but the next two had damp for blast seeds and safeguard up for slumber wands, so hopefully it picks up because RB/TDS really avoided that, even with seeds I never felt like boss battles were as easy as status and spam attacks.
Did not expect to rage so much holy cow. I love Sky too much for my own good
Anybody else feel the dungeons are really generic? The first two installments (yes I'm totally genwunner over this series) felt totally different. There was a plot reason for all the early game dungeons you went to, they had great distinguishing soundtracks (Sky's OST is probably my favorite of any game) and all the enemies obviously fit in. Themes like Team Charm's, which I don't even like, are incredibly memorable because of the way they really fit the game, and there are so many cool quirks like Azurill's Nightmare leeching your belly faster like it's trying to kill you and clear differences between water dungeon/standard field dungeon/fire dungeon/etc. From where I'm at in the game, most of the dungeons get thrown in your missions. There's little to distinguish trainee cave from peewee something. I cant even remember their names, I could tell you the names of Sky's plot dungeons in order for the most part (not an exaggeration, although I also overplayed the game as a kid so hard). What's so memorable or special about generic foes without a real theme in generic dungeons that are either grassy or stony and sometimes have water and don't really have memorable themes to back them up? The difference between your first generic dungeon with Nuzleaf that I cant even remember and Beach Cave, with a beachy background, beachy foes, and an actual boss at the end of the first dungeon is just so noticeable. And I can still remember the basic outline of its soundtrack, it really draws you in. This game is a massive step forward from Gates to Infinity already, but I wish everything wasn't so generically tossed in. I didn't mind going to the dungeons the game told me to, not if waterfall cave was cool and memorable. It's always the same basic format, why not make me remember the name of the dungeon I literally just completed? So far the best they did was the haunted house thingy and that still had generic dungeon foes that fit in plenty of other dungeons, as opposed to, for example, Mount Thunder having a pretty obvious roster that off the top of my head was Cacnea, Electrike, Mareep, Manectric, Arcanine...I could go on but yeah. I'm sure there'll be more as the plot picks up, but this is probably my biggest gripe with the game.
edit: weather was also pretty defining, great way to shake it up was throwing in clouds in random floors on mount travail, distinguishing foggy forest, making certain levels of ice/sand dungeons much more obnoxious, etc.
On the bright side, after Salamence I thought any potential strategy or difficulty was going to be removed with "spam wand and hit them", hated that boss battle so much, but the next two had damp for blast seeds and safeguard up for slumber wands, so hopefully it picks up because RB/TDS really avoided that, even with seeds I never felt like boss battles were as easy as status and spam attacks.
Did not expect to rage so much holy cow. I love Sky too much for my own good
Should I buy this? Never really did a Mystery Dungeon game, but I'd like to do something Pokemon besides working on my Pokedex in AS. Thought this might as well be the best place to ask because it's the actual thread for it.