Conkeldurr [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Pastelle

we're all star stuff


[OVERVIEW]
Conkeldurr is an interesting Pokemon in Doubles OU. Due to a combination of high Attack and low Speed, which is something most viable Fighting-types in the tier lack, it makes for an ideal Trick Room attacker. It possesses two fantastic abilities in Iron Fist and Guts to boost its already great attacking prowess, as well as decent bulk to allow it to play outside of Trick Room. Conkeldurr's movepool ranges from good STAB attacks in Drain Punch, Hammer Arm, and Mach Punch to good coverage and support options in moves like Wide Guard and Knock Off. However, Conkeldurr faces stiff competition from other Fighting-types like Keldeo and Scrafty, due to a lack of secondary typing and poor Speed, making it the preferred choice only on Trick Room teams or on a team in need of a bulky Fighting-type.

[SET]
name: Trick Room Attacker
move 1: Hammer Arm
move 2: Mach Punch
move 3: Ice Punch / Knock Off
move 4: Detect
item: Life Orb
ability: Iron Fist / Guts
nature: Brave
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
ivs: 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
Hammer Arm is ridiculously strong with boosts from Iron Fist and Life Orb, and it can deal massive chunks of damage to most of the metagame. Mach Punch serves as a nice priority STAB attack and helps make up for Conkeldurr's low Speed. Ice Punch provides great coverage to deal heavy damage to Landorus-T, Thundurus, and Amoonguss. Knock Off is mainly for Aegislash, and it has the nice utility of removing important items. Conkeldurr should be wary of using Knock Off into Aegislash's King's Shield, however. Whichever move is used depends on what the team is in most need of. Lastly, Detect keeps Conkeldurr safe during turns without Trick Room from incoming attacks.

Set Details
========
The EVs are simple enough; the spread allows Conkeldurr to hit hard while adding overall bulk through HP. The 0 Speed IVs let Conkeldurr underspeed Amoonguss at -1, giving it a great advantage against the tier's most common Trick Room answer. Iron Fist boosts the punch moves Conkeldurr is running, causing Hammer Arm to become extremely powerful. Guts is another ability option, as it allows Conkeldurr to soak up burns and paralysis to receive an Attack boost and makes for great utility to protect other teammates that would be otherwise devastated by status. Life Orb aids in increasing Conkeldurr's power, as well as boosting Knock Off, which Iron Fist does not.

Usage Tips
========
This set is designed for teams utilizing Trick Room. Due to Conkeldurr's low speed, it ideally should only be played when Trick Room is active. It does, however, have utility outside of Trick Room thanks to its bulk, using Mach Punch to clean up weakened foes. As for when it should be played, Conkeldurr is pretty versatile, performing well early-, mid-, and late-game. However, common Trick Room checks such as Talonflame and Amoonguss should ideally be removed before Conkeldurr enters the field; then it can begin to wreak havoc.

Team Options
========
Trick Room setters such as Cresselia allow Conkeldurr to outspeed a majority of the metagame and ruin lives. Conkeldurr has a problem with Talonflame, so Pokemon such as Azumarill and Diancie that can beat Talonflame help it immensely. Amoonguss is a common Trick Room check, so having Pokemon like Heatran and Reuniclus to stop it is nice. Reuniclus in particular is good, as Overcoat makes it immune to Spore and Rage Powder. Conkeldurr can, however, deal heavy damage to Amoonguss on its own with Ice Punch. Fairy-types are also a problem, so Heatran, Aegislash, and other slow Steel-types can aid Conkeldurr greatly. Lastly, common Trick Room Pokemon that struggle against Bisharp such as Reuniclus, Cresselia, and Mega Abomasnow are good partners, as Conkeldurr can easily switch in on Bisharp and KO it with Mach Punch.

[SET]
name: Offensive Support
move 1: Drain Punch
move 2: Mach Punch
move 3: Ice Punch
move 4: Knock Off / Wide Guard / Detect
item: Sitrus Berry
ability: Guts / Iron Fist
nature: Brave
evs: 252 HP / 240 Atk / 16 Def

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
Drain Punch acts as both a reliable STAB attack and a form of recovery to increase Conkeldurr's longevity. Mach Punch serves as nice priority and helps make up for Conkeldurr's low Speed. Ice Punch is a great coverage move to deal heavy damage to Landorus-T, Thundurus, and Amoonguss. Knock Off is mainly for Aegislash, and it has nice utility in removing important items. It should be wary of using Knock Off against Aegislash's King's Shield, however. Wide Guard could be used instead to support teammates weak to common spread moves such as Earthquake and Heat Wave. Lastly, Detect can be used instead to make strategic plays around threats to Conkeldurr.

Set Details
========
Sitrus Berry increases Conkeldurr's bulk and allows it to survive Adamant Mega Kangaskhan's Fake Out + Return. The EVs are designed to let Conkeldurr survive a Psyshock from Life Orb Latios. An alternative spread of 252 HP / 184 Atk / 72 SpD can be used instead to let it survive maximum Special Attack Mega Charizard Y's Overheat with Assault Vest. Guts allows Conkeldurr to soak up burns and paralysis to receive an Attack boost, and it makes for great utility to protect other teammates that would be otherwise devastated by status. Iron Fist boosts the power of the punch moves Conkeldurr is running and is also a good option. A Brave nature helps with the team's Trick Room matchup even if Conkeldurr is used on a non-Trick Room team.

Usage Tips
========
This Conkeldurr set functions well mid-game to act as a switch-in for weakened teammates and punch some serious holes in the opponent's team. Mach Punch can help finish off weakened foes quickly and effortlessly. Be cautious of super effective attacks if you're using Knock Off or Wide Guard, as Conkeldurr won't be able to use Detect. Lastly, use Wide Guard against Pokemon that typically spam spread moves, such as Mega Charizard Y and Sylveon.

Team Options
========
Pokemon that appreciate Wide Guard's protection and are weak to spread moves like Rock Slide, such as Mega Charizard Y, make for good partners. Intimidate users such as Gyarados and Landorus-T pair well with Conkeldurr too, as they can weaken opposing physical attackers, particularly Talonflame, a big threat to Conkeldurr. Steel-types can take Fairy-, Psychic-, and Flying-type attacks aimed at Conkeldurr. Jirachi is especially good at this, as it can redirect them with Follow Me and absorb the hits with ease while also hitting Fairy-types for super effective damage. Heatran is another good partner, as it completely walls Talonflame. Electric-types pair well with Conkeldurr too, as they can beat the Flying-types that cause such problems to Conkeldurr. Rotom-W is a solid option, as it resists Talonflame's STAB Flare Blitz and Brave Bird.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Conkeldurr is an excellent user of Assault Vest, as it has good bulk aside from Special Defense, and the boost really aids in its ability to tank hits from other Pokemon. Conkeldurr also has a lot of coverage options and isn't too affected by the inability to run Detect and Wide Guard. Conkeldurr has many different Rock-type coverage options, including Rock Slide, Rock Tomb, and Stone Edge. Rock Tomb even provides a bit of speed control. These can be used to surprise Talonflame and other Flying-types, but because Conkeldurr is slow, it doesn't make for that great of a lure; usually, Ice Punch or Knock Off is far more useful. Poison Jab is another option, as it can hit Fairy-types for super effective damage, but it's only useful if you can predict a Fairy-type switching in or are under Trick Room, as most Fairy-types outspeed Conkeldurr and can hit it hard with a super effective attack of their own. Conkeldurr also gets access to the other elemental punches, Thunder Punch and Fire Punch, which can give it a different array of coverage. Typically, Ice Punch is the most versatile and generally the best option, as Thunder Punch really only hits Gyarados harder than any of Conkeldurr's other moves, while Fire Punch provides a single coverage move to hit both Amoonguss and Aegislash rather than making Conkeldurr run both Ice Punch and Knock Off. Flame Orb and Guts can work on Trick Room to get the Guts boost and avoid other status, particularly Spore from Amoonguss.

Checks and Counters
==================
**Typing Advantage**: Most Fairy-types, such as Sylveon and Azumarill, take very little damage from any of Conkeldurr's STAB attacks or coverage options and can then OHKO it with their STAB moves. In addition, Talonflame is one of the single best checks to Conkeldurr. It resists Conkeldurr's Fighting-type STAB attacks, takes neutral damage from all of Conkeldurr's other common moves, and can hit it for super effective damage with a priority STAB Brave Bird. Talonflame also beats Conkeldurr while Trick Room is active, as its Brave Bird ignores its effect, and its resistance to Mach Punch makes it difficult to check. It should, however, be wary of Rock Slide or Stone Edge.

**Intimidate and Burns**: Common Intimidate users such as Landorus-T and Gyarados lower Conkeldurr's attacking prowess. Landorus-T should be wary of Ice Punch, though. Burns from the likes of Rotom-W and Gengar also neuter Conkeldurr's attacking prowess if it's not running Guts.

**Speed**: Due to its low Speed, nearly every notable threat to Conkeldurr outspeeds it outside of Trick Room. A few examples include Sylveon and Diancie.

**Speed Control**: Trick Room greatly aids Conkeldurr's ability to deal with opposing threats, and the lack of it can severely damage its viability.
 
Last edited:

Checkmater

It’s just us kittens left, and the rain is coming
is a Tiering Contributor
check's check? idk formatting and obviously this is an am check n_n
things im not as sure about have question marks attached

Overview:
mention mach punch's priority, which is a major highlight of using conk over other fighting types (which don't get this move) ie it can beat bisharp better than the others.
mention specifics of the speed tier: still faster than amoonguss but under things like aegislash
mention bad mu with fairies/talonflame? idk if big enough for overview but these are two common tr checks

set:
wide guard slash behind protect? I think it's good enough, idk about what everyone else thinks. Stratos uses wide guard>protect iirc.
Also I honestly think both sets could be condensed into one with the bulkier items becoming OO... LO should be standard I think

team options:
I'd mention some stuff for nontr.. ie diancie? Char Y? both have been used with conk in the past
edit: in non tr teams*

oo:
fist plate?


checks/counters:
amoonguss
still mention burns imo, esp since good opps will calc on its moves to determine if iron fist or guts
Could be kinda lengthy explanation though so yeah
 
im qc now hooray

stuff for the whole analysis

1. its spelled hammer arm not hammar arm lmaooooooooooooooooooo
2. detect is standard over protect for imprison purposes


Overview
  • the only support option that conkeldurr really has access to is wide guard so just take out support options and put wide guard
  • strong priority in mach
Set Comments (tr attacker)
  • ice punch before knock off, main draw to knocks with the other sets is that you hit aegislash in blade form. not possible if youre using this inside of trick room

Set Details (tr attacker)
  • we good here (◕‿◕✿)
Usage Tips (tr attacker)
  • add amoonguss to the trick room checks and remove azu because i don't think anyone specifically adds azu to a team to check tr
Team Options (tr attacker)
  • stuff that beats amoong like heatran and reuniclus
Set Comments (offensive support)
  • i would definitely use sitrus over leftovers on the wide guard set. it's not a sub user or anything so sitrus will 99% of the time provide more recovery. lets you live adamant kang fake out + return too.
  • should go drain / mach / knock or ice / wide guard or knocks or ice punch. 1 coverage move is mandatory because your set implies you can drop both for support option.
  • switch the slashes of items because imo wide guard is more relevant and better
  • i dont even like detect on this conk because all the coverage or wide guard is usually necessary and conks able to take a hit with its p good bulk.
  • i would consider not slashing iron fist on this set, being able to absorb status as a slow mon is usually much more relevant outside of trick room and makes it more effective
Set Details (offensive support)
  • 252 hp 72 spdef lives max spa modest charizard y overheat with assault vest so maybe mention it
  • add that brave aids it in the tr matchup if not being used in it
Usage Tips (offensive support)
  • if you need a trick room attacker just use the life orb set. i don't like mentioning tr in this set because im much more likely to add this to a non tr team.
Team Options (offensive support)
  • mention stuff that likes to be protected by wide guard (give the specific moves) for sure. specific mention to chairlizard y for its good offensive synergy with conk.
  • remove tr mentions
Other Options
  • remove superpower, like just run hammer arm at that point. there is no way that the atk + defense drops on a mon that needs to use valuable tr turns is ever worth it
  • rock tomb is an option on teams without trick room to control speed + kill rock move targets, mainly for assault vest sets
  • flame orb + guts on tr attacker to avoid status from crippling you, most importantly amoonguss spore
  • fist plate on wide guard is cool af ive tried it before and it works
Checks and Counters
  • fairies: remove poison jab mention as it's in oo, azu doesnt care about AV so reword that or take it out entirely
  • intimidate: but landorus-t has to be wary of ice punch
  • i dont think the lack of speed control deserves its own tab section thingy. other qc feel free to correct me on this but it just seems wrong to me.
tag me when implemented

e: fuck capital letters u_u
e2: remembered the gatr thing, not enough o's on lmao
 
Last edited:

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
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Second set is not something that should be combined. Wide Guard plays entirely differently from - and in fact is incompatible with - Assault Vest, and sets should not be combined for the sake of combining them. Either it's good enough for each of those (imo it's good enough for neither and only TR attacker should be used, but that's just my opinion), or it's not. But together is not an option.

As to first set, the whole reason it's viable is that Conk at -1 Speed after Hammer Arm outslows Amoonguss. This needs to be mentioned. It also means that Ice Punch should probably be the first slash, imo.
 

shaian

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252 HP / 240 Atk / 16 Def always lives lo latios psyshock --> you dont miss out on any ohkos / 2hkos

tbh i've always used a lot more bulk on conkeldurr (lots of spd investment), but i guess a more /general/ spread would be more straight forward offensive

ALSO on the second set it should be sitrus > lefties, and no assault vest on a WG set, though, frankly i'd prefer this get cut down into just one set (the first one), with everything else moved into OO and if any of the others are deemed viable enough in the future we'll give them a writeup
 

kamikaze

The King Of Games
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When im not getting butchered by final assignments and interviews, I will come back to this and do an actual check but for now one thing I think we can do is shift around the move placement of the second set.

I personally like this below placement.

move 1: Drain Punch
move 2: Mach Punch
move 3: Ice Punch
move 4: Knock Off / Wide Guard / Protect

Other QC members can chime in too.
 

shaian

you love to see it
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in usage tips on both sets -> be conscious of using knock off into aegis king shields for obvious reasons (because lets be real, it's 99% for aegis)
 

Pastelle

we're all star stuff
im qc now hooray

stuff for the whole analysis

1. its spelled hammer arm not hammar arm lmaooooooooooooooooooo
2. detect is standard over protect for imprison purposes


Overview
  • the only support option that conkeldurr really has access to is wide guard so just take out support options and put wide guard
  • strong priority in mach
Set Comments (tr attacker)
  • ice punch before knock off, main draw to knocks with the other sets is that you hit aegislash in blade form. not possible if youre using this inside of trick room

Set Details (tr attacker)
  • we good here (◕‿◕✿)
Usage Tips (tr attacker)
  • add amoonguss to the trick room checks and remove azu because i don't think anyone specifically adds azu to a team to check tr
Team Options (tr attacker)
  • stuff that beats amoong like heatran and reuniclus
Set Comments (offensive support)
  • i would definitely use sitrus over leftovers on the wide guard set. it's not a sub user or anything so sitrus will 99% of the time provide more recovery. lets you live adamant kang fake out + return too.
  • should go drain / mach / knock or ice / wide guard or knocks or ice punch. 1 coverage move is mandatory because your set implies you can drop both for support option.
  • switch the slashes of items because imo wide guard is more relevant and better
  • i dont even like detect on this conk because all the coverage or wide guard is usually necessary and conks able to take a hit with its p good bulk.
  • i would consider not slashing iron fist on this set, being able to absorb status as a slow mon is usually much more relevant outside of trick room and makes it more effective
Set Details (offensive support)
  • 252 hp 72 spdef lives max spa modest charizard y overheat with assault vest so maybe mention it
  • add that brave aids it in the tr matchup if not being used in it
Usage Tips (offensive support)
  • if you need a trick room attacker just use the life orb set. i don't like mentioning tr in this set because im much more likely to add this to a non tr team.
Team Options (offensive support)
  • mention stuff that likes to be protected by wide guard (give the specific moves) for sure. specific mention to chairlizard y for its good offensive synergy with conk.
  • remove tr mentions
Other Options
  • remove superpower, like just run hammer arm at that point. there is no way that the atk + defense drops on a mon that needs to use valuable tr turns is ever worth it
  • rock tomb is an option on teams without trick room to control speed + kill rock move targets, mainly for assault vest sets
  • flame orb + guts on tr attacker to avoid status from crippling you, most importantly amoonguss spore
  • fist plate on wide guard is cool af ive tried it before and it works
Checks and Counters
  • fairies: remove poison jab mention as it's in oo, azu doesnt care about AV so reword that or take it out entirely
  • intimidate: but landorus-t has to be wary of ice punch
  • i dont think the lack of speed control deserves its own tab section thingy. other qc feel free to correct me on this but it just seems wrong to me.
tag me when implemented

e: fuck capital letters u_u
e2: remembered the gatr thing, not enough o's on lmao
implemented

252 HP / 240 Atk / 16 Def always lives lo latios psyshock --> you dont miss out on any ohkos / 2hkos

tbh i've always used a lot more bulk on conkeldurr (lots of spd investment), but i guess a more /general/ spread would be more straight forward offensive

ALSO on the second set it should be sitrus > lefties, and no assault vest on a WG set, though, frankly i'd prefer this get cut down into just one set (the first one), with everything else moved into OO and if any of the others are deemed viable enough in the future we'll give them a writeup
implemented

Still confused on the placement of Wide Guard and Detect vs. Assault Vest or w/e. The only reason they were in the same set is that they fill sorta the same role. Which option should be placed in OO, if that is what seen necessary?
 

Pastelle

we're all star stuff
[1:41:46 PM] shaian: pastelle, there is never an instance in where wide guard / detect can have its role filled by AV -> so move AV into OO
[1:42:17 PM] shaian: second set should just be sitrus
[1:42:31 PM] shaian: it would be knock off / wg / detect
[1:42:38 PM] shaian: as the slashes
[1:42:51 PM] pastelgameboy: ok
[1:42:54 PM] shaian: we’re using kamis set


implemented
 

talkingtree

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let's goooooooo

Overview
  • Mention Hammer Arm either with or instead of Drain Punch when you're talking about Conk's great STAB moves, I'd argue that it's more relevant to Conkeldurr's success
Set 1
  • As per Trellolant's suggestion, specify 0 speed IVs
Moves 1
  • Mention Amoong when you're talking about Ice Punch, especially since Conk is able to underspeed it at -1
  • Pretty sure the convention is to use Detect > Protect whenever you can to avoid Imprison, so maybe replace that?
Set Details 1
  • Switch the Life Orb bullet point with the Iron Fist bullet point so that the flow between talking about the two abilities is smoother
  • Discuss the 0 Spe IVs (used to underspeed Amoong at -1, have a better TR matchup in general)
Usage Tips 1
  • *then not than in your last bullet point
  • Add something about having some utility outside of TR due to Mach Punch cleaning up weakened foes, Conk's far from useless outside of TR
Team Options 1
  • *Chandelure not Chandalure (between this, then/than, and Hammar Arm, you were really against the letter 'e', huh?)
  • Clarify that Azumarill and Diancie are slower Pokemon that beat Talonflame - they aren't good just because they're slow
  • Mention that Conk still hits Amoong hard with Ice Punch
  • TR mons that struggle with Bisharp appreicate Conk being there, so things like Reuniclus, Cresselia, and Mega Abomasnow are good partners
Set 2
  • Switch to Brave Nature (unless QC had some reason to suggest Adamant that I don't know about)
Moves 2
  • You have the Ice Punch bullet point twice, remove the second one
Set Details 2
  • Remove one of the apostrophes after Conkeldurr in the first bullet point
  • Switch the order of the suggested spread to "252 HP / 184 Atk / 72 SpD" to fit with convention
Usage Tips 2
  • When you talk about Wide Guard, maybe say Mega Charizard Y or Sylveon instead of Heatran, as Drain Punch is often a better option against Tran
Team Options 2
  • Looks neato
Other Options
  • *Rock Slide not "Rock Slidd"
Checks and Counters
  • Replace **Intimidate** with **Intimidate and Burns**, since the main set doesn't even run Guts. Specify that burns from threats like Gengar and Rotom-W severely weaken non-Guts Conkeldurr's attacks

Tag me when you get all this done :>
 

Pastelle

we're all star stuff
let's goooooooo

Overview
  • Mention Hammer Arm either with or instead of Drain Punch when you're talking about Conk's great STAB moves, I'd argue that it's more relevant to Conkeldurr's success
Set 1
  • As per Trellolant's suggestion, specify 0 speed IVs
Moves 1
  • Mention Amoong when you're talking about Ice Punch, especially since Conk is able to underspeed it at -1
  • Pretty sure the convention is to use Detect > Protect whenever you can to avoid Imprison, so maybe replace that?
Set Details 1
  • Switch the Life Orb bullet point with the Iron Fist bullet point so that the flow between talking about the two abilities is smoother
  • Discuss the 0 Spe IVs (used to underspeed Amoong at -1, have a better TR matchup in general)
Usage Tips 1
  • *then not than in your last bullet point
  • Add something about having some utility outside of TR due to Mach Punch cleaning up weakened foes, Conk's far from useless outside of TR
Team Options 1
  • *Chandelure not Chandalure (between this, then/than, and Hammar Arm, you were really against the letter 'e', huh?)
  • Clarify that Azumarill and Diancie are slower Pokemon that beat Talonflame - they aren't good just because they're slow
  • Mention that Conk still hits Amoong hard with Ice Punch
  • TR mons that struggle with Bisharp appreicate Conk being there, so things like Reuniclus, Cresselia, and Mega Abomasnow are good partners
Set 2
  • Switch to Brave Nature (unless QC had some reason to suggest Adamant that I don't know about)
Moves 2
  • You have the Ice Punch bullet point twice, remove the second one
Set Details 2
  • Remove one of the apostrophes after Conkeldurr in the first bullet point
  • Switch the order of the suggested spread to "252 HP / 184 Atk / 72 SpD" to fit with convention
Usage Tips 2
  • When you talk about Wide Guard, maybe say Mega Charizard Y or Sylveon instead of Heatran, as Drain Punch is often a better option against Tran
Team Options 2
  • Looks neato
Other Options
  • *Rock Slide not "Rock Slidd"
Checks and Counters
  • Replace **Intimidate** with **Intimidate and Burns**, since the main set doesn't even run Guts. Specify that burns from threats like Gengar and Rotom-W severely weaken non-Guts Conkeldurr's attacks

Tag me when you get all this done :>
Implemented thetalkingtree
 

talkingtree

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\o/ Just a few more things:

-You missed an instance of "Hammar Arm" in the Overview, 4th bullet point
-In Usage Tips 2, instead of saying "If you're running Assault Vest", say "If you're running Knock Off". That advice still applies regardless of item, it's a more direct result of the move choice (although you're right, AV would mean you're running Knock Off, that's not the only time it would be run)
-In the OO bullet point about AV, say Detect instead of Protect to maintain consistency

Get those done, and take this QC 2/3 and write 'er up n_n
 

Pastelle

we're all star stuff
\o/ Just a few more things:

-You missed an instance of "Hammar Arm" in the Overview, 4th bullet point
-In Usage Tips 2, instead of saying "If you're running Assault Vest", say "If you're running Knock Off". That advice still applies regardless of item, it's a more direct result of the move choice (although you're right, AV would mean you're running Knock Off, that's not the only time it would be run)
-In the OO bullet point about AV, say Detect instead of Protect to maintain consistency

Get those done, and take this QC 2/3 and write 'er up n_n
Implemented and writing this weekend.
 

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