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Melee Thread (TOURNAMENT SPOILERS TO BE EXPECTED)
- Thread starter Stratos
- Start date
that would make sense but nah, if she's a feminist she'd be a very outspoken one as all other feminists
The next official tier has been he lease here.
http://smashboards.com/threads/official-2015-melee-tier-list-community-lists-released.425523/
I think this is actually a really interesting tier list. I find it odd that marth is actually higher than sheik. Also the split in tiers I think is pretty interesting. The fact that yoshi rose a couple of spots I think was purely due to amsa.
http://smashboards.com/threads/official-2015-melee-tier-list-community-lists-released.425523/
I think this is actually a really interesting tier list. I find it odd that marth is actually higher than sheik. Also the split in tiers I think is pretty interesting. The fact that yoshi rose a couple of spots I think was purely due to amsa.
Epikhairz
Anything goes
i agree entirely with marth > sheik at #3. in this 20xx era of melee, marth is like an anti-meta character with his amazing range and deadly chaingrabs/combos on spacies. sheik is on the rise though as well, so in a year or two it'll be interesting to see who is more optimized at that point. also, doc deservedly dropped a couple spots; with shroomed dropping him he has no representation at a national level.
perhaps the most interesting thing to me is ICs > Falcon, which i personally disagree with, but i can see reasons for this.
perhaps the most interesting thing to me is ICs > Falcon, which i personally disagree with, but i can see reasons for this.
it's interesting how Fox is SS because it's undeniably the best character in the game, but it's not better than the following 3 to the point of being in a subrank of its own imo
i guess you could argue fox has literally no bad match-ups, outside of maybe marth on FD, but is it really worth a rank higher than falco/marth/sheik
i guess you could argue fox has literally no bad match-ups, outside of maybe marth on FD, but is it really worth a rank higher than falco/marth/sheik
I agree mostly with Mcmeghan that although fox is great and the best character in melee, he doesn't really belong in a tier of his own. And Fox being so easy to combo makes him combo food for a lot of low- and mid-tier characters who Peach and Puff don't struggle with (Pikachu, samus, etc).
Also I think Sheik is better than marth and you have a lot of sheik players getting tour representation, including a lot of up-and-coming guys (Plup, Druggedfox). There are like 2 good marth players and one is m2k who hasn't won anything and PPMD who isn't as great as he was (probably just due to lack of practice, but still)
Also I think Sheik is better than marth and you have a lot of sheik players getting tour representation, including a lot of up-and-coming guys (Plup, Druggedfox). There are like 2 good marth players and one is m2k who hasn't won anything and PPMD who isn't as great as he was (probably just due to lack of practice, but still)
Stratos
Banned deucer.
the tiers are split wherever there was a gap of greater than one point between characters. While everyone agrees that Fox is not much better than marth/falco/sheik, they don't agree whether marth or falco is second, so that happened. it's much more informative to look at the non-letter tiers (top, high, etc.) imo
i might also be the only one who agrees with ic's over falcon, falcon just has not accomplished anything at all and ICs have been getting much better results.
yeah ive read how they separated the tier, i just think they coulda put Fox as top S out of common sense, because it's obvious the votes for 2-4 would be split, while #1 is universally accepted
you have a point in the fact that lookin at top/high/etc is the way to go
ICs/Falcon is an interesting subject, and as shown by the fact that Falcon is over the ICs in the community and community panel shows that both sides have solid arguments
regarding your argument, aka that Falcon has accomplished less than ICs, i feel like that with that logic, Luigi/Yohsi should be over Doc (Shroomed dropped Doc in 2015, so Yoshi's and Luigi's results are more recent than Doc and thus should be higher in the tier list)
one of the main ICs arguments that ive seen in other places (and in your post) is that it has better results, and i think this kinda stems from the fact that most people know how to deal with Falcon much more than how to deal with ICs. if you look past results, i'd say Falcon has more potential and is thus a better character than ICs (altho on the other hand, wobbling is such a powerful tool that ICs is arguably an inherently better character than Falcon)
you have a point in the fact that lookin at top/high/etc is the way to go
ICs/Falcon is an interesting subject, and as shown by the fact that Falcon is over the ICs in the community and community panel shows that both sides have solid arguments
regarding your argument, aka that Falcon has accomplished less than ICs, i feel like that with that logic, Luigi/Yohsi should be over Doc (Shroomed dropped Doc in 2015, so Yoshi's and Luigi's results are more recent than Doc and thus should be higher in the tier list)
one of the main ICs arguments that ive seen in other places (and in your post) is that it has better results, and i think this kinda stems from the fact that most people know how to deal with Falcon much more than how to deal with ICs. if you look past results, i'd say Falcon has more potential and is thus a better character than ICs (altho on the other hand, wobbling is such a powerful tool that ICs is arguably an inherently better character than Falcon)
i remember the days where my doc was 9 on the tier list and now it seems more likely to hit 15 than to ever hit 9 again, R I P
ICs over CF looks weird but i can see the merits. CF has one good matchup above him (peach) and one neutral? (marth) while getting bodied to various degrees by the other four, ICs has one winning matchup (shiek), a bunch of solid to not-too-bad matchups and then tbh flat out bodied by peach.
people not being as well-versed in the matchup vs ICs also factors in. the tier list isn't theorybros
ICs over CF looks weird but i can see the merits. CF has one good matchup above him (peach) and one neutral? (marth) while getting bodied to various degrees by the other four, ICs has one winning matchup (shiek), a bunch of solid to not-too-bad matchups and then tbh flat out bodied by peach.
people not being as well-versed in the matchup vs ICs also factors in. the tier list isn't theorybros
Stratos
Banned deucer.
i don't think it's fair to blame it on matchup inexperience. Look at Mango, he was positively shredding Fly at Press Start, said that the matchup was literally unwinnable for ICs, and then Nintendude took him to a tight 5 game set at TBH5. On the local level that may be true, but on the big stage i don't think it is anymore; ICs have been relevant enough for long enough that anyone who wants to be a world class player should know how to handle them. I think they're just straight up a better character than falcon; their movement tricks with two ice climbers allow them better approaches, and of course ICs punishes are brutal too.
ppmd to go super saiyan and win genesis, you heard it here first
Stratos
Banned deucer.
given what he's tweeted i doubt it but he is my favorite smasher so I can dream.
another dream: Plup avoids Armada in bracket (who, as first seed, is knocked out by 4th seed mango in WS) and plup from 7th seed runs through Hbox -> Leffen -> Mango -> Mango again to win the whole thing in a massive stunner
realistic prediction: Armada takes it, having studied his balls off on the Puff MU.
another dream: Plup avoids Armada in bracket (who, as first seed, is knocked out by 4th seed mango in WS) and plup from 7th seed runs through Hbox -> Leffen -> Mango -> Mango again to win the whole thing in a massive stunner
realistic prediction: Armada takes it, having studied his balls off on the Puff MU.
Stratos
Banned deucer.
so tafo predicted plup over mango. interesting. i know tafo also put plup above m2k in the midyear rankings so this may simply be him being excited for a new top player to enter the fray, but I really think it could be a fair prediction, especially if seeding works out so they don't play h2h. he also put m2k above mango. thoughts?
edit: actually nvm if they dont h2h plup will prob play m2k. so yeah, hes basically predicting plup to beat mango head on.
edit: actually nvm if they dont h2h plup will prob play m2k. so yeah, hes basically predicting plup to beat mango head on.
I mean plup has a fairly good shot at beating mango given recent matchups, especially if you're judging mango's strength off of his 2-3 loss to plup and then his 0-3 loss to westballz at Dreamhack
in general I think the majority of people are still expecting mango to make it quite far - the man is fueled by hype and there are tons of people wanting to see another mango / armada genesis finals
personally I think plup under M2K on the power rankings is totally fair since M2K has placed higher than plup at every single tournament plup's been at this year (besides Eclipse, which M2K didn't attend). M2K over mango is a tougher debate and i'm not too knowledgeable about either of their year-round performances so i won't say anything there.
i'll still be rooting for plup, westballz, and PPU to win whenever i can though ( ' - ')b
in general I think the majority of people are still expecting mango to make it quite far - the man is fueled by hype and there are tons of people wanting to see another mango / armada genesis finals
personally I think plup under M2K on the power rankings is totally fair since M2K has placed higher than plup at every single tournament plup's been at this year (besides Eclipse, which M2K didn't attend). M2K over mango is a tougher debate and i'm not too knowledgeable about either of their year-round performances so i won't say anything there.
i'll still be rooting for plup, westballz, and PPU to win whenever i can though ( ' - ')b
Yeah Plup over mango seems justified if you judge their performances by just last year, especially considering how Plup won their last set and should've won their CEO set if it wasn't for PS2 jank.
But idk about mango in general tbh tho, I've only started watching melee around early 2015 and I honestly don't see anything special about him. I find his Fox inferior to Leffen's and Armada's and his Falco inferior to PPMD's and probably Westballz'(?), and he's been kinda inconsistent throughout.
But idk about mango in general tbh tho, I've only started watching melee around early 2015 and I honestly don't see anything special about him. I find his Fox inferior to Leffen's and Armada's and his Falco inferior to PPMD's and probably Westballz'(?), and he's been kinda inconsistent throughout.
