CAP 21 CAP 21 - Part 9 - Moveset Discussion

[Alfalfa]

I have already stated my concerns with Taunt, especially since we have leverage against literally every one of our checks except Skarmory, Klefki, and Hippowdon. Taunt invalidates Skarmory and Klefki as checks when paired with Head Smash, and I have already stated that this is not going to be used against them in a negative fashion using linear strategies. Considering that both of these mons would easily be able to stop our CAP otherwise, and we want our CAP to be in general threatened by Steel-types, giving it access to Taunt should not be something we should consider. Just for reference:

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Thunder Wave tends to be the only thing Klefki needs in order to put significant pressure on the CAP. You can roll out all of these calcs, but they do not represent a real one-on-one scenario in which moves are made in a fashion similar to a chess game, where every move you make counts. You can say these calcs negate my points of concern, but you are assuming these mons will switch in safely, which is not from where I am arguing. Head Smash + Taunt is intended for Skarmory switching in, but everything else I was saying about it reflects multiple different yet common scenarios in which these points of concern would come up. Rolling out calcs and expecting the problem to be solved is not solving any problem, only coming up with an excuse to not solve the problem (no inflammatory overtone intended). Yes, Skarmory can carry Iron Head, but physically defensive sets usually want Counter a lot more because it allows Skarmory to beat a much larger array of targets it is supposed to beat instead of just a small handful of targets.

I would support Encore, but I forgot to mention that I edited it out of my proposed moveset because I could not find any particularly good reasoning for it. It looked good on paper, but I could not find anything beyond just general annoyance that would make it gain any support.

Knock Off is always a move that looks good on paper this generation, but I really do not see a reason for running it. Our CAP would very much appreciate being able to run Dual STABs, U-turn, and either an additional coverage move or a move that gives it significant leverage against particular opponents. Knock Off really does not let it achieve such against opponents it is not going to already beat anyways (except for Garchomp and Ferrothorn, but there are far more efficient ways of dealing with them). Something like Reflect or Toxic Spikes at least puts pressure on a number of our CAP's checks without utterly dismantling them, but Knock Off is more just annoying than being enough for our CAP to use as leverage against its checks.

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

I'm also adding Bulk Up, Coil and Rock Polish to the list of moves to be discussed. Really, of the things suggested, they are the only ones that arguably aren't broken that still do something useful (though it is arguable some of these are broken still... but I want to hear some good arguing so we can decide stuff :P)

I'm giving a slight extension to this discussion, and hope for it to be finished in 36 hours or so.

 

[NumberCruncher]

I'm also adding Bulk Up, Coil and Rock Polish to the list of moves to be discussed. Really, of the things suggested, they are the only ones that arguably aren't broken that still do something useful (though it is arguable some of these are broken still... but I want to hear some good arguing so we can decide stuff :P)

Coil seem pretty decent on a Mega Set with Wood Hammer as the coverage move. Bulk Up could also work, but relying on a set-up sweeper that doesn't hit 30% (Mod Edit: Check your math; it's not 30%) of the time seems like a rather poor strategy. Rock Polish seems awful for the same reason Weavile doesn't actually use the Agility it gets as Sneasel. Heck, CAP with full investment actually lets you outspeed some Choice Scarfers.

Mod Edit: Deleted reply to a now deleted post.

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

Rock Polish seems awful for the same reason Weavile doesn't actually use the Agility it gets as Sneasel. Heck, CAP with full investment actually lets you outspeed some Choice Scarfers.

And yet 9% of Mega Metagross do use Rock Polish. I think when Korski proposed this move, he was somewhat implying an adamant set with more power, but I'll let him explain more if he so chooses. I'm not saying that this means we need Rock Polish, but I think your arguments here don't take nearly as many things into account as they should. Also keep in mind that if something could be on a set or in OO, then it should be decided here. The types of moves that should be outright rejected are generally ones that are too good for CAP's sets, too bad for even OO, or do next to nothing for the concept/hinder the concept. As such, anyone who disapproves of any move at this point should probably include one of these three criteria when making his/her case.

Also, as a reminder, our STABs do not miss 30% of the time. They have 80% accuracy, not 70%.

Lastly, in case anyone missed it, here again are the moves under discussion (I'm also just now adding Hone Claws to the list).

Moves I want more discussion on:
-Bulk Up
-Hone Claws
-Coil
-Rock Polish
-Reflect
-Taunt (does this mess with the steel-type setters too much? keep in mind we don't want to outright beat steel-types most of the time)
-Encore
-Knock Off (specifically I want to hear cases on why it is NOT overpowered and how it helps the concept, or why it is so if you don't support the move)
-Trick (is regenerator + trick too much?)

 

[NumberCruncher]

And yet 9% of Mega Metagross do use Rock Polish.

Mega Metagross only gets up to 350 on a Jolly set, meaning he ends up in a Speed tie with several mons. Among those mons are Gengar, Lati-twins, and M-Diancie. All of those match-ups are won by the mon that attacks first assuming Bullet Punch isn't being employed (which is on 47% of Metagrosses, to give you an impression of how often RP is chosen over BP for this purpose). CAP is alone in its Speed tier, and the only mons it would try to outspeed with this set is Life Orb Alakazam (we still lose to Focus Sash) and Weavile (which has priority moves anyway).

 

[vyomov]

I'd like to argue in favour of Knock Off, simply because it does nothing harmful to our counter list (most Psychics are hit sufficiently by Head Smash anyways, such as Alakazam and the Lati-twins) and only offers some utility such as removing Leftovers recovery, which can be quite useful when netting KOes later.

Coil/Bulk Up both help our base form with a good bulky boosting set, but I would largely prefer Coil over Bulk Up, because I don't see why patching up the accuracy of our moves should have any demerits at all (and I highly doubt Head Smash not missing will suddenly make Mega Crucibelle broken); this being said, I'd like to also open discussion about Substitute, since a Sub/Coil or Sub/BU set could be quite viable for the base form, and could also create a Sub + 3 attacks set for the Mega Form that seems perfectly reasonable.

 

[LightningLord2]

Coil and Bulk Up are both fine in my book, since that allows Crucibelle to shift from Offensive Utility to a Bulky Lategame Cleaner. Substitute is a universal move and there shouldn't be any reason to not allow it. Another move I want is Poison Jab for defense-oriented sets that prefer a STAB with 100% base accuracy and more PP (I wish there were reliable options for physical rock coverage). Ultimately, the lack of reliable recovery will hold back such bulky boosting sets.

I'm not really all that opposed to Taunt since we'd have to give up either coverage or another utility move to run it. Klefki can get a Thunder Wave in due to Prankster and even uninvested Skarmory can 2HKO it with Iron Head. It is a bit disruptive, but Crucibelle would have to risk taking severe damage when trying to target Grounds or Steels.

Encore is largely comparable to Taunt, except that mispredicting could lead to the opposing Pokémon being locked into a Ground-Move, enabling a free turn for a non-Grounded teammate (which Crucibelle is likely to be paired with). However, it's easier to force a switch this way at the cost of not stopping hazards, so something less suitable would have to take a Head Smash. Very much pro-concept to me.

Lastly, I'll talk about Trick - personally, I feel it's not going to be overly powerful as there aren't many switch-in opportunities due to a weak defensive typing. A problem with the move is that we can't go Mega with this move, which may be undesirable.

 

[sparktrain]

I feel that Coil is simultaneously the most useful boosting move we can give CAP while still having it be acceptably balanced. The Defense boosts, as I see it, are very important to justify this being used over just an all-out attacking set, as Crucibelle's bulk/typing is somewhat detrimental for setup, and it's already giving up a coverage move to even run the move. Running Rock/Poison/Grass coverage means that Steel-types need to be weakened or defeated first-- especially those that are faster or carry priority, running Rock/Poison/Fighting means the same but for Ground-types, and in both cases Crucibelle is still checked by scarfers that can prey on its weaknesses, such as Lando-T and Keldeo, as well as faster mons in general. Let's take a look at Mega Metagross. Does it run Hone Claws? Well it can, but it doesn't-- and it has much better bulk, an arguably better defensive typing, and the offensive coverage to set up with and take advantage of the boosts! Coil is probably the most worthwhile boosting move we can consider for Crucibelle, and its susceptibility to common attacking types and priority moves due to its typing and bulk mean that it really does need the Defense boost if it's going to run a legitimate boosting set.

I'm not a fan of Bulk Up simply because it's inferior to Coil, and the accuracy boosts are actually pretty helpful given the less-than-perfect accuracy of its STAB moves. Basically, if we feel that Coil is over the top (which I don't believe at this point in time), Bulk Up is too; the lack of accuracy boost with Bulk Up isn't enough to make it balanced if we deem that Coil screws with our checks and counters too much, as they have literally the same increases in damage output and allow us to tank literally the same hits as the other. As vyomov put it, Head Smash not missing isn't going to be the factor that suddenly makes Crucibelle broken. And if Coil is allowed, well, then Bulk Up obviously isn't needed.

Hone Claws is different from Bulk Up by the nature of which stats are being boosted, and can be considered as an alternative to Coil if we deem that the Defense boost of Coil bolsters CAP's longevity too much while still providing a balanced method of boosting Attack + Accuracy. However, I don't feel as though this is the case, as I mentioned earlier.

Rock Polish seems like the perfect example of Other Options material to me-- Crucibelle already occupies a pretty good Speed tier, and needs a fair number of mons taken out of the picture or heavily weakened (read: bulky Grounds-type, bulky Steel-types, priority users, etc), before it can even begin to consider sweeping with Rock Polish. If we deem it worthy of being main-set material, that's fine, but it's certainly going to be a lesser choice when compared to the offensive utility / all-out attacking sets. On the flip-side, I don't think it's so terrible as to outright exclude it from Other Options, either, as some have alluded to. Rock Polish allows Crucibelle to viably run Adamant as opposed to the previously mentioned sets, which really, really need Jolly to take full advantage of its Speed tier. The extra attack in tandem with +2 Speed is notable, allowing Mega Crucibelle to outspeed and OHKO Choice Scarf Keldeo, for example.

252+ Atk Mega CAP 21 Wood Hammer vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 324-382 (100 - 117.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Basically, it's nowhere near being too good, but it's definitely not useless, either. I'd support it.

Knock Off - I don't like this too much; it's a lot more anti-threatlist than it is pro-threatlist. It messes with Jirachi hard, it cuts the longevity of anything that runs Leftovers that switches in to check Crucibelle, removes stuff like Lando-T's Choice Scarf on the switch-in... to me, it just seems like one of those generic goodstuff moves that would be thrown on without necessarily being particularly pro-concept-- the coverage is unneeded in terms of our threatlist, and it just generically screws with everything that carries an item.

In regards to Trick, we're most likely giving this thing heavy hitting STAB, some pretty decent coverage, and U-turn. Does choiced Crucibelle really need yet another way to screw with its switch-ins? I don't think Trick would be what pushes it over the edge if it did get the move, but I'm skeptical as to why this is absolutely necessary when we're already leaning towards giving it plenty of other tools that ensure it can succeed as a Choice user.

 

[Mega-Pokebattlerz]

Coil and Bulk Up are both fine in my book, since that allows Crucibelle to shift from Offensive Utility to a Bulky Lategame Cleaner. Substitute is a universal move and there shouldn't be any reason to not allow it. Another move I want is Poison Jab for defense-oriented sets that prefer a STAB with 100% base accuracy and more PP (I wish there were reliable options for physical rock coverage). Ultimately, the lack of reliable recovery will hold back such bulky boosting sets.

I'm not really all that opposed to Taunt since we'd have to give up either coverage or another utility move to run it. Klefki can get a Thunder Wave in due to Prankster and even uninvested Skarmory can 2HKO it with Iron Head. It is a bit disruptive, but Crucibelle would have to risk taking severe damage when trying to target Grounds or Steels.

Encore is largely comparable to Taunt, except that mispredicting could lead to the opposing Pokémon being locked into a Ground-Move, enabling a free turn for a non-Grounded teammate (which Crucibelle is likely to be paired with). However, it's easier to force a switch this way at the cost of not stopping hazards, so something less suitable would have to take a Head Smash. Very much pro-concept to me.

Lastly, I'll talk about Trick - personally, I feel it's not going to be overly powerful as there aren't many switch-in opportunities due to a weak defensive typing. A problem with the move is that we can't go Mega with this move, which may be undesirable.

I agree with most of this, but you forgot one thing about Trick: you can't Trick a Pokemon's Mega Stone. This means Trick would be utterly useless on Mega Crucibelle, but I think Regular Crucibelle could use it quite effectively. Tricking a Choice Band onto a special attacker, stall Pokemon or win-con Pokemon could easily shut down an opponent's strategy and force a switch, but you have to be wary of mixed attackers such as Hoopa-U. You could also give Crucibelle some Black Sludge and try to trick it on to a non-Poison type. It wouldn't push Crucibelle over the edge, though, as you could just as easily screw up and accidentally seal your own fate; for example, Tricking a Choice Band onto a Garchomp you thought was a TankChomp (why the fuck did I do that?). Remember that Chandelure can do the exact same thing, but is unviable in OU. tl;dr Trick is a good option for Choice sets or trolling, but it's not going to make Crucibelle broken.

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

Just to chime in; I REALLY want to see +1 defense calcs in order to get a clearer picture of what Coil (or Bulk Up) does for Crucibelle.

 

[Blackdrakon30]

Here you go HeaL. This is calcs on most of the OU threats that are non-Ground type as any Ground type will OHKO with both +1 and +2, and probably more. So this list is mostly comprised of Physical Steel Types and common physical threats that use Steel or Ground type coverage, but also other physical attackers with other types.

+1 and +2 Defense Calc for Mega Form (+2 is included because there are some significant +2s), using an Adamant 252 attack 252 speed Crucibelle-Mega

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252+ Atk Mega Altaria Earthquake vs. +2 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-M: 272-324 (76.8 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Still OHKO at +1 def)
252+ Atk Mega Altaria Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-M: 544-640 (153.6 - 180.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-M: 606-714 (171.1 - 201.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. +2 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-M: 306-360 (86.4 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO (Still OHKO at +1 def)
252 Atk Life Orb Bisharp Iron Head vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-M: 421-499 (118.9 - 140.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Bisharp Iron Head vs. +1 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-M: 283-335 (79.9 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-M: 608-716 (171.7 - 202.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. +2 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-M: 304-360 (85.8 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO (Still OHKO at +1 def)
252+ Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crucubelle-M: 624-736 (176.2 - 207.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. +2 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-M: 316-372 (89.2 - 105%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (Sstill OHO at +1 def)
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-M: 390-458 (110.1 - 129.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. +1 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-M: 260-308 (73.4 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-M: 218-260 (61.5 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. +1 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-M: 146-174 (41.2 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Iron Head vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-M: 387-458 (109.3 - 129.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Iron Head vs. +1 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-M: 260-307 (73.4 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-M: 524-620 (148 - 175.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. +2 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-M: 264-312 (74.5 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Still OHKO at +1 def)
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-M: 306-360 (86.4 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. +1 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-M: 204-242 (57.6 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-M: 564-668 (159.3 - 188.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Tyranitar Earthquake vs. +2 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-M: 284-336 (80.2 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-M: 692-816 (195.4 - 230.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. +2 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-M: 348-412 (98.3 - 116.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO (Still OHKO at +1 Def)
240+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 600-708 (169.4 - 200%) -- guaranteed OHKO
240+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. +2 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-M: 302-356 (85.3 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO (Still OHKO at +1 def)

I think Coil and Bulk Up seems like a good idea, and I believe I have mentioned them before, but I think what we need to remember is that as this thing is able to boost, obviously it can boost beyond +1 and +2, which would give it some serious raw power and bulk. Note that most Ground Type coverage fails to OHKO at +2.

 

[vyomov]

With regards to +1 Defense calcs, below are two examples to show why Coil could help Crucibelle, and why it doesn't work against the mons that should threaten us

Example 1: Why Coil helps Crucibelle
For instance, Coil improves the match-up against CB Azumarill significantly: without a boost, CB Azumarill revenges CAP with Aqua Jet with minimal damage before, but at +1 Crucibelle can actually tank an Aqua Jet and retaliate with Gunk Shot, as shown below:
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. +1 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Crucibelle: 204-240 (57.6 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO vs.
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Crucibelle: 306-360 (86.4 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

With the base form, this only becomes more apparent, because CB Azumarill KOes Bulky Booster Crucibelle after SR 56.3% of the time with Aqua Jet, while the bulky booster can tank an Aqua Jet and still hit back with Gunk Shot (and possibly Regenerate off the damage if forced out later)
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle: 338-402 (81.2 - 96.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle: 228-270 (54.8 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Example 2: Why Coil doesn't screw with our counters and checks
In the case of Mega Metagross, even after a +1 boost, Meteor Mash comfortably KOes both forms, while the +1 Attack boost doesn't do enough to take Mega Metagross out of the game for either form:
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. +1 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Crucibelle: 360-426 (101.9 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle: 404-476 (97.1 - 114.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252 Atk Mega Crucibelle Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 132-156 (43.8 - 51.8%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 4 Atk Crucibelle Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 89-105 (29.5 - 34.8%) -- 79.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Alfalfa]

Coil and Bulk Up are both fine in my book, since that allows Crucibelle to shift from Offensive Utility to a Bulky Lategame Cleaner. Substitute is a universal move and there shouldn't be any reason to not allow it. Another move I want is Poison Jab for defense-oriented sets that prefer a STAB with 100% base accuracy and more PP (I wish there were reliable options for physical rock coverage). Ultimately, the lack of reliable recovery will hold back such bulky boosting sets.

I'm not really all that opposed to Taunt since we'd have to give up either coverage or another utility move to run it. Klefki can get a Thunder Wave in due to Prankster and even uninvested Skarmory can 2HKO it with Iron Head. It is a bit disruptive, but Crucibelle would have to risk taking severe damage when trying to target Grounds or Steels.

Encore is largely comparable to Taunt, except that mispredicting could lead to the opposing Pokémon being locked into a Ground-Move, enabling a free turn for a non-Grounded teammate (which Crucibelle is likely to be paired with). However, it's easier to force a switch this way at the cost of not stopping hazards, so something less suitable would have to take a Head Smash. Very much pro-concept to me.

Lastly, I'll talk about Trick - personally, I feel it's not going to be overly powerful as there aren't many switch-in opportunities due to a weak defensive typing. A problem with the move is that we can't go Mega with this move, which may be undesirable.

I have already stated before that Skarmory would much prefer Counter over Iron Head because Counter allows Skarmory to check a significantly higher amount of threats. That fact, paired with a potential CAP access to Taunt, renders Skarmory a very shaky check. as Head Smash + Taunt is giving our CAP a significant amount of leverage against it.

 

[SlickHippo99]

I really think Trick is a good option for this mon. It has no effect on the potency of the mega form while also making the base form more effective. I think part of what was wanted going into this CAP was for the base form to have some solid viability, and Trick helps this by giving it a tool the mega can't use. If it eventually is decided that Trick isn't super useful in practice, it can always be relegated to OO. I do not think Trick would be too much with Regenerator because what makes Regenerator + Choice item so good is that it lets Crucibelle be a hit-and-run attacker that gains health in the process. This is all going great until you use Trick to cripple a switch-in. Yes you've crippled a wall, but Crucibelle has lost some of its potency as a hit-and-run attacker and while it will still gain health upon switching out, it will no longer hit as hard or as fast (depending on your item of choice) as before. This trade-off still balances in Crucibelle's favor, but the opportunity cost created by losing the choice item makes it fair. Additionally, proper prediction with Trick rewards good play and prediction while punishing bad play as Mega-Pokebattlerz alluded to in his example regarding Garchomp.

Sorry for the somewhat haphazardness of this post, finals week is in full swing

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

Alright, we've finally reached the end of the line here. Here are the sets and OO that I think the ICC have chosen in this thread. Also, because people never truly edited the moves details when submitting edits in this thread, I decided to remove them from the sets. For the most part, what the moves do should be self-explanatory, but the TL and/or myself could probably remake the descriptions later on if necessary.

Name: All-Out Attacker
Move 1: Head Smash
Move 2: Gunk Shot
Move 3: Wood Hammer / U-turn
Move 4: Low Kick / U-turn
Ability: Regenerator
Item: Crucibellite
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly

(No surprise here, this set pretty much cemented itself in place once support shifted towards Low Kick. It utilizes our STABs and has just enough coverage not to be hard countered by Steel-types, but still fails to OHKO mons such as Excadrill, Jirachi, etc.)

Name: Offensive Utility
Move 1: Head Smash
Move 2: Gunk Shot
Move 3: U-turn / Low Kick / Wood Hammer
Move 4: Stealth Rock / Nuzzle
Ability: Regenerator
Item: Crucibellite
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly

(Once again, this set seems to be very much supported in the thread. The main thing that was debated was whether or not Nuzzle should be slashed on the set or put in OO. Ultimately, I kept it on the set because that's how it was initially proposed and it is undeniable that it has utility, especially in relation to Metagross and Jirachi. It also just simply makes the opponent careful when switching in.)

Name: Choice Scarf (subject to modification, see below)
Move 1: Head Smash
Move 2: Gunk Shot
Move 3: U-turn
Move 4: Wood Hammer / Low Kick
Ability: Regenerator
Item: Choice Scarf
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly / Adamant

(So, from very early on a scarf set was talked about and no one disagreed with it. Ultimately, the idea was supported but never really updated with our chosen coverage moves as the thread went on. As such, I myself collected the supported moves and put them into this modified Choice Scarf set. Note that it is subject to modification... you'll see why below.)

Other Options: Reflect, Rock Polish, Stone Edge, Toxic Spikes

(Reflect and Rock Polish didn't have quite as much discussion as I would have liked, but their supporters definitely put forth some good arguments while no dissenter seemed to appear. Reflect + U-turn offers a different way to support the team, but while in Mega form the effects will be short lived so it seemed more OO than set worthy. Rock Polish allows for an adamant spread that in turn is able to OHKO Keldeo, and in general turns CAP into a speed machine... however, Rock Polish is in OO and not a main set because of CAP's susceptibility to priority moves. Stone Edge is in OO simply as a recoil-less alternative for Base Crucibelle sets. Lastly, Toxic Spikes provides an alternative entry hazard that could be used, but is OO due to the greater immediacy of Stealth Rock. Taunt and Encore were ultimately not included because of their potentially disruptive nature, and messing with Skarmory even further in particular seemed to be less than desirable... Knock Off was ultimately left off, and it was one of the hardest decisions I had to make. It had a TON of support, but to me the supporting posts simply described the move's effect rather than saying how it helped the concept or how it stayed true to our threats and such. There were a few dissenters who caught onto this and thus argued against it, and ultimately I think their logic prevailed.)

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But wait! There's more!

At this point in time, I think it is best that Coil and Trick go to the polls. If Coil is voted in, then it would create a whole new set featuring the move. If Trick is voted in, then it would be a slash on the Choice Scarf set. Also note that voting on these moves would be independent; you don't have to vote for one OR the other, and could alternatively vote yes to both or no to both.

Coil received a lot of last minute support, but I question the few calcs that were proposed, as some posts were a wall of calcs with very little reasoning and others seemed to be extremely limited. It is undoubtedly a very defining move, and I feel uncomfortable accepting it without a proper poll.

Trick might not seem as big of a deal, but ultimately the other existing Pokemon that have Regenerator + Trick are comparatively slow (and they don't have pivot moves) and thus Crucibelle would function quite differently if it had the move. Ultimately, the support behind the move in the this thread wasn't a landslide, but it did have a decent amount of supporters so I feel that it deserves to be voted upon.

Tagging jas61292 in case he wants to +1/-1 anything before the polls are made.

 

[jas61292]

There were certainly other moves that got discussed, but I do think that ultimately what HeaLnDeaL has done a fairly good job in his analysis here.

After one final re-read of the thread, though, there is one adjustment I would like to make here, regarding the move Nuzzle. To be completely honest, after having read the dissenting posts by people such as DetroitLolcat and Korski, I am really not that convinced that Nuzzle really does that much for us. We are a fast Pokemon so the speed drop from paralysis is not that useful, and a lot of the Pokemon most dangerous to us either don't care about paralysis or are outright immune. At the same time, it permanently can cripple some Pokemon we want to lose to, such as Metagross, and whether or not that is something acceptable, I am not really sure. There were definitely posts in favor of the move, but I feel that a lot of them really danced around the issue, talking about why it is a good move, and not much about why it is specifically good for us, rather than other options we could be considering.

With that said, I do recognize both the support and dissent for Nuzzle, and I feel that ultimately, it would be a move best left to vote, so I am going to uh... -1/2 it (yeah, lets go with that)... and move it to be part of the moves poll, along side Coil and Trick.