There's no rise of Wide Guard, and if there is one it's because of Eruption/Precipice Blades Primal Groudon+ Origin Pulse Primal Kyogre. Dazzling Gleam on Xerneas is not that good and shouldn't be run that much lol it misses out on far too many KOs. The rise of Crobat is because of priority mons that it can stop with Quick Guard, idk if you're using like Poison Fang Crobat to not even check Xerneas or what but Crobat is not helping against it lol.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
VGC 2016 Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Serapis
- Start date
- Status
Crobat has a Taunt that can't be stopped with Fake Out, a Fairy-resistance and Ground-immunity (pretty much the only coverage that Xerneas runs) and Super Fang for those easy 2HKOs. It does help against Xerneas, though it obviously can't beat it on it's own.
EDIT: It also has Tailwind to match the Geomancy Speed-boost for itself and the rest of the team.
I can see the Taunt that isn't stopped by Fake Out argument of course, I guess it does have that to do (if it's even in the right situation at the right time in the first place and it's not like Specs Xern which would make you look like a dumbass for Taunting it).
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Crobat: 142-168 (73.9 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The fairy resistance helps out so much...
I also think you misunderstand the mechanics of Super Fang. It takes out 50% of its remaining health, not its overall health. Therefore Super Fang is not getting 2HKOs lol, otherwise that thing would be S Rank and we'd probably have like Raticate or something ranked on here for it.
Finally, if there's an already boosted Xerneas, you likely will not get Tailwind up with a Crobat lol. Even if you do, most of the things like Primals and the rest of the base 90s, as well as Kyurem forms, cannot outrun Xerneas.
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Crobat: 142-168 (73.9 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The fairy resistance helps out so much...
I also think you misunderstand the mechanics of Super Fang. It takes out 50% of its remaining health, not its overall health. Therefore Super Fang is not getting 2HKOs lol, otherwise that thing would be S Rank and we'd probably have like Raticate or something ranked on here for it.
Finally, if there's an already boosted Xerneas, you likely will not get Tailwind up with a Crobat lol. Even if you do, most of the things like Primals and the rest of the base 90s, as well as Kyurem forms, cannot outrun Xerneas.
Yeah, because Specs Xerneas is the threat. It's nearly impossible to pivot switch in this format. Not being able to Protect just makes this worse.
You shouldn't let it get the boost in the first place. Obviously Crobat is not the ideal Pokémon to have against a boosted Xerneas. lol
I understand the mechanics correctly lol. This is a doubles format. Super Fang + any decently strong attack = 2HKO (in one turn)
Setting up Tailwind in front of a boosted Xerneas ready to attack, doesn't seem like a good choice ...you're right. lol
tl;dr
Use the Crobat to keep the Xerneas from boosting, not to tame a boosted deer that is running amok.
EDIT: It's past 4am here and I'm heading to bed right now. We can continue this discussion tomorrow, here or in a PM.
PS: none of this changes my nomination
Xerneas
S => S-
Last edited:
Really in all seriousness what is cherim doing in C+
Flower gift has synergies with Primal Groudon very well but thats about all it does and kangaskhan-mega,cresselia make better partners for primal groudon
so
Cherim -----------> D+/not on the list at all.
Crobat is a very reliable Xerneas answer(taunt to shutdown setup or tailwind so that xerneas cant out speed your partner.)
But xerneas is still a potent threat that destroy after 1 geomancy.
paired with smeargle it is even more devestating because a +2/+2/+2 xerneas against to sleeping pokemon is deadly and may not require revealing your last to Pokemon which is bad in a best of 3 format.
Edit:Vital spirit gunkshot close combat primeape
Flower gift has synergies with Primal Groudon very well but thats about all it does and kangaskhan-mega,cresselia make better partners for primal groudon
so
Cherim -----------> D+/not on the list at all.
Crobat is a very reliable Xerneas answer(taunt to shutdown setup or tailwind so that xerneas cant out speed your partner.)
But xerneas is still a potent threat that destroy after 1 geomancy.
paired with smeargle it is even more devestating because a +2/+2/+2 xerneas against to sleeping pokemon is deadly and may not require revealing your last to Pokemon which is bad in a best of 3 format.
Edit:
Last edited:
I strongly disagree with Xern dropping. It is the best setup sweeper in the format. It can take so much benefits from the most little opportunity that he scares even well prepared teams.
Keep in mind that Xern's teammate will always neuter one of your Pokémon for the turn (with either Fake Out, Quick Guard, Follow Me, Rage Powder, even stuff like Crafty Shield can work, also Smeargle deserves a special mention for this by its sole presence). So by "the most little opportunity", I mean having only one Pokémon on your field that can prevents Xerneas setting up. You always need two to prevent the Geomency.
Of course, you can still deal with +2/+2/+2 Xerneas. There are a couple of Pokémon that can tank it and deal a great amount of damages. But +2/+2/+2 Xern is S rank without any doubt, and the boost isn't that hard to get, so not deserving a drop.
Keep in mind that Xern's teammate will always neuter one of your Pokémon for the turn (with either Fake Out, Quick Guard, Follow Me, Rage Powder, even stuff like Crafty Shield can work, also Smeargle deserves a special mention for this by its sole presence). So by "the most little opportunity", I mean having only one Pokémon on your field that can prevents Xerneas setting up. You always need two to prevent the Geomency.
Of course, you can still deal with +2/+2/+2 Xerneas. There are a couple of Pokémon that can tank it and deal a great amount of damages. But +2/+2/+2 Xern is S rank without any doubt, and the boost isn't that hard to get, so not deserving a drop.
That sounds like the definition of an A Rank mon to me.
Xerneas doesn't perform multiple roles and it is not a supporter. It does not create free turns at all. Though it does execute one role extremely well with minimal team support.A Rank said:
EDIT: Just for reference:
Xerneas is one dimensional.S Rank said:
Power Herb Geomancy is a flaw in itself. You get one shot to do it right. If you succeed, great, but that's all you get.
Xerneas needs more than little to no team support (in my opinion).
Last edited:
I looked to "one dimensional" in my dictionnary and there was a picture of a Mega-Kangaskhan, so why would you say that they don't belong to the same rank? :(
Boosted Xern is the top threats in the VGC16 metagame, if you want me to take the exact same words of the op. And yes, if you need to aim it with your 4 Pokémon in order to not just lose, it does create free turns for the teammate without giving any opening for the opponent (although I'd agree that's not the main goal of Xern, it still does that without even trying)
Boosted Xern is the top threat
Mega Kangaskhan...
can run a bulky tank set with just coverage moves to wallbreak.
can support the team with Fake Out and actively create free turns, not just passively.
can help with revenge killing stuff (Fake Out + Sucker Punch). The Speed tier also allows it to outrun all of the common restricted legendaries in and outside of Tailwind.
can use Power-Up Punch to turn itself into a win condition if left unchecked.
Xerneas activates Power Herb Geomancy and hopes that it is not crippled in the process. Then sweeps.
You don't actually need to target it with all your mons to "not just lose".
Fake Out, redirection, Prankster shenanigans, etc... most of the stuff that helps Xerneas to set up, also helps when messing with other Xerneas. There is no need to "focus" on Xerneas asap if you actually have a plan that goes beyond the current turn.
PS: I'm not saying that Xerneas is not a threat or that it is bad (I nominated it for S- lol). What I'm saying is that Xerneas is not one of the few biggest threats in this metagame.
Though it is kind of overhyped from my point of view.
Last edited:
How about you do the sensible option and stop putting the likes of kanga/xern in the same tier as pdon? K thx.
Easy change
S+
Primal Groudon
S
mega kanga
xerneas
pogre
And kanga is one dimensional as fuck lol. You will have at most one different move (low kick or PuP) and that doesn't make a mon one dimensional just because you can change PuP (which isn't even that good in this format imo) with low kick. Let's not kid ourselves on bulky kanga being viable when the tier is riddled with base 90s and outspeeding them is absolutely mandatory so you can't drop speed. Not to mention that using up your one and only mega slot is far more limiting than using that of your ubers slot since mega kanga can be deadweight in some matchups whereas pdon will never be deadweight.
Regardless, xerneas is so good at its one role (I highly doubt geoxern is the only viable set for the record) that it doesn't even matter if its predictable since it's either ridiculously difficult to stop or you have to invest a large amount to stop it and even then it still is very likely to perform its role exemplary so I don't see why it being one dimensional is even a problem.
edit: also why did you say kanga is a non restricted team member? Non mega kangaskhan is fucking trash and needing the mega stone slot is a restriction in itself.
Easy change
S+
Primal Groudon
S
mega kanga
xerneas
pogre
And kanga is one dimensional as fuck lol. You will have at most one different move (low kick or PuP) and that doesn't make a mon one dimensional just because you can change PuP (which isn't even that good in this format imo) with low kick. Let's not kid ourselves on bulky kanga being viable when the tier is riddled with base 90s and outspeeding them is absolutely mandatory so you can't drop speed. Not to mention that using up your one and only mega slot is far more limiting than using that of your ubers slot since mega kanga can be deadweight in some matchups whereas pdon will never be deadweight.
Regardless, xerneas is so good at its one role (I highly doubt geoxern is the only viable set for the record) that it doesn't even matter if its predictable since it's either ridiculously difficult to stop or you have to invest a large amount to stop it and even then it still is very likely to perform its role exemplary so I don't see why it being one dimensional is even a problem.
edit: also why did you say kanga is a non restricted team member? Non mega kangaskhan is fucking trash and needing the mega stone slot is a restriction in itself.
I don't think that S Rank should be split up at all, but since it is, I decided to move Xerneas down so we don't have to introduce a completely new rank (S+).
Show me one successful team with a non-GeoXern. Just one. Anybody here, not just you Haruna.
Mega Pokémon are restricted per battle, not per team. There is a difference. You can bring up to 6 potential Mega Pokémon to team preview if you want. Restricted legendaries are capped at two. That's it.
PS: I do enjoy this discussion.
Show me one successful team with a non-GeoXern. Just one. Anybody here, not just you Haruna.
Mega Pokémon are restricted per battle, not per team. There is a difference. You can bring up to 6 potential Mega Pokémon to team preview if you want. Restricted legendaries are capped at two. That's it.
PS: I do enjoy this discussion.
Remove S-. It's pointless. Just make it blatantly clear that pdon is better than everything else in the tier.
And yes if you bring 6 potential megas, you can still only mevo once. That's still a restriction and quite a large one. The fact that mega kangaskhan is not a must bring in 100% of games and the fact that teams even opt for kanga + another mega (or drop kanga entirely) is just a testament to this fact.
As far as successful teams are concerned, I can safely say that atm there are zero teams that can even be close to considered tried and proven to be good and until nationals (and maybe regionals but those tend to be a joke in most regions) I wouldn't make hasty judgment.
Overall you've yet to provide any half decent argument on why xern isn't deserving to be on the same level as pogre/kanga. As per standard viability ranking protocol (though serapis hasn't been following that at all and just put whatever the hell he wanted anywhere he wanted since the get go) it's the side that wants to change a mons rank that has to undisputedly prove that the mon should change. It's not the side that thinks it should stay that has to provide said evidence. xd.
And yes if you bring 6 potential megas, you can still only mevo once. That's still a restriction and quite a large one. The fact that mega kangaskhan is not a must bring in 100% of games and the fact that teams even opt for kanga + another mega (or drop kanga entirely) is just a testament to this fact.
As far as successful teams are concerned, I can safely say that atm there are zero teams that can even be close to considered tried and proven to be good and until nationals (and maybe regionals but those tend to be a joke in most regions) I wouldn't make hasty judgment.
Overall you've yet to provide any half decent argument on why xern isn't deserving to be on the same level as pogre/kanga. As per standard viability ranking protocol (though serapis hasn't been following that at all and just put whatever the hell he wanted anywhere he wanted since the get go) it's the side that wants to change a mons rank that has to undisputedly prove that the mon should change. It's not the side that thinks it should stay that has to provide said evidence. xd.
I can agree with this. Though I still think that Primal Groudon and Mega Kangaskhan are the top Pokémon of two different categories (restricted legendaries and non-restricted monsters). Obviously Groudon is the single best monster and if you guys want to give it it's own rank, go ahead ...I would understand.
That's exactly it. You can build a team with multiple potential Mega evolutions and only bring the one that's best suited for the matchup without losing much.
Obviously you could also decide against bringing one of your restricted legendaries during team preview, but the opportunity cost would be much higher, since you're limited to two per team and want to bring all the power houses you can in this fast paced format.
This is true, but what viable niche could a Geomancy-less Xerneas possibly fill, that would justify it's usage? I don't see it, but I'm looking forward to be proven wrong.
I actually wanted to move it down to POgre so no idea what you're talking about there.
Kangaskhan offers more and costs less in my opinion.
Also... this is the VGC subforum... those "standard Smogon protocols"* don't mean much here/in this format afaik.
*whatever that's supposed to mean :P
Xerneas is checked or outright countered by at least 3/4 of the current S and A rank. It does exactly one thing and though it does it well, you always know what to expect from it and how to handle what's coming.
If you don't have the tools to deal with it, then it sure is a threat, but that goes for anything... even Parasect, Ursaring or Walrein.
If you do have the tools to deal with it, then there is not much that a Xerneas can do. It's not like you need to focus on countering Xerneas when building a team either.
Fake Out, Taunt, Wide Guard, strong priority moves, Trick Room, Prankster Encore/Thunder Wave, redirection, etc... are all really common on every team right now and not just to check Xerneas.
You don't need to focus on countering Xerneas + support when building a team. Just slap a bunch of those common disruption moves on your team and use those for all the Xerneas matchups ever.
Groudon and Kangaskhan are a lot harder to keep from doing their job successfully and therefore deserve to be above Xerneas in terms of viability rankings.
Whether you want to move Xerneas down to POgre or move PDon and/or Kangaskhan up, is up to you guys. I don't really care...
Last edited:
What do Kangaskhan and Primal Kyogre apparently bring to the table that a +2/+2/+2 Xerneas that basically OHKOs most of everything ever doesn't though? Nobody will be fully convinced until you prove that it's different from other S Rank mons.
I was just saying that it sounds like the definition of an A rank mon to me. My nomination was still for S-, which would place it next to that Kyogre.
That being said,
Kyogre doesn't need to boost to deal ridiculous damage. It allows you to control the weather and therefore check the #1 threat in the format, Primal Groudon. Kyogre's matchups against the top rank mons are overall better and it isn't as easily crippled as a Xerneas, because it doesn't care that much about Taunt, redirection or Prankster disruption.
Also... Primordial Sea makes it a lot easier to keep your Xerneas checks alive, which makes it even harder for the deer to do it's job.
Kangaskhan's opportunity cost is lower, since it doesn't take up one of the restricted legendary slots.
Parental Bond Double-Edge doesn't need to be boosted to do heavy damage.
It actively creates momentum with Fake Out, Sucker Punch and the fact that it outspeeds all the common "Ubers" except for Rayquaza.
In my opinion Kangaskhan actually became better with VGC16, not worse.
Last year it was the main threat and every team was overprepared for it. This year it takes more of a supporting role next to the actual heavy hitters of the format.
Further, Intimidate and Will-O-Wisp aren't nearly as common at the moment, so it is less likely to be crippled.
It is also one of the best, if not the best physical attackers in the format, because most Groudon players already realized that Precipice Blades is too risky and Earth Power too important for the Groudon mirror match.
Is Kangaskhan better than Xerneas? That's definitely debatable.
Is it easier to slap on a team and get mileage out of? In my opinion, yes.
An unboosted Xerneas is fairly weak for an "Uber". A boosted Xerneas is a powerhouse, but it does take up resources to succeed and is easily neutralized in the process by a prepared team.
Last edited:
I thought I'd join this conversation, about Xerneas - a Pokemon that I think belongs in The S-Tier in VGC 16.
So obviously the S-Tier is defined as
"Reserved for the top threats in the VGC16 metagame. The Pokemon in this tier are able to perform multiple roles to tremendous effect, whilst having few to no flaws. Support Pokemon in this tier can easily create free turns for their teammates without creating clear openings for the opponent. Any flaws that these Pokemon have can be taken care of with little to no team support."
Initially it is easy to prove Xerneas as a top threat in the metagame.
Via Braverius' blog, The usage of the top 25 teams in the format (taken once a week - at least for the 2 weeks of the format was undertaken)
http://braverius.blogspot.com.au/se...-max=2016-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=14
Across the teams that are currently having the most success, Every single team either utilises Xerneas, or values its spot in the metagame so high that it has at least two resistances to fairy type moves.
Through using this data, it can be observed that the most successful teams in this format recognise both Xerneas' value to their own teams as well their opponents, and the level of usage / countering would be indicative to a Pokemon belonging in the S tier.
Further, another quality which would leave xerneas in the S tier, would be to act as a supporter - in creating free turnsfor its teammates.
Xerneas is able to achieve this through the threat of its unique move. Geomancy. Geomancy is a move offering great pressure of a early, mid or late game sweep, through xerneas' access to powerful spread ( or single target) fairy moves (Dazzling gleam and moon blast) boosted by its unique ability fairy aura - essentially a free life orb.
The very threat of Xerneas on the field, is enough to see double targets, taunts, fake outs, knock offs, land into the slot in an effort to stop a likely early game loss. However all of this is minimal compared to the opponent's action when xerneas has indeed set up. Teammates are essentially free to do as they wish unless the opponent is willing to make hard reads, calling defensive Xerneas play - which may result in a game loss.
The final qualifying factor, regarding flaws and how they may be resolved is a matter shown with simplicity.
Xerneas has a Basestat of 680, featuring Defensive stats of 126 HP, 95 DEF. 98 SPDEF
As Xerneas is an "uber Pokemon" not much is able to ko it before it is able to set up and sweep. Notable exceptions include Aegislash and Ferrothorn, which still require boosting items and/or xerneas to gain speed before a ko can be reached.
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 28 HP / 12 Def Xerneas: 170-204 (82.9 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (104 BP) vs. 28 HP / 12 Def Xerneas: 162-192 (79 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It can be noted that there is an absence of Pokemon that both outspeed Xerneas and are able to get large damage off on it, due to its large bulk, this makes using fake out (to neutralise one Pokemon on a given turn) and redirectors easy features for any VGC team, but especially Xerneas teams which remove its weaknesses to strong super effective single target attacks. It is also seperated from contemporary set up sweepers as it gains the ability to "stay around" with the boosts it ascertains. A geomancy gives Xerneas the equivalent defensive boost of an Amnesia, making it even more troublesome to truly counter, as the weakness it has to poison and steel moves, generally comes in the way of special attacks. Therefore, it is essentially able to defeat the Pokemon that may have countered it, with nothing but a free turn.
I think it's fair to conclude, Xerneas whilst on paper seeming like a simple set up and sweep Pokemon offers much more pressure then one would expect from a simple A-Tier Pokemon. On team preview, one cannot under prepare for a Xerneas lead. Failing to lead correctly into Xerneas + Support = Game loss. Through the popularity of Xerneas (And the efforts made by successful teams in stopping its run), the large presence it has on the field helping it support its teammates as well as the lack of threats that can deal with the barest support, Xerneas should retain a place in the S tier - at least at this stage in the metagame.
So obviously the S-Tier is defined as
"Reserved for the top threats in the VGC16 metagame. The Pokemon in this tier are able to perform multiple roles to tremendous effect, whilst having few to no flaws. Support Pokemon in this tier can easily create free turns for their teammates without creating clear openings for the opponent. Any flaws that these Pokemon have can be taken care of with little to no team support."
Initially it is easy to prove Xerneas as a top threat in the metagame.
Via Braverius' blog, The usage of the top 25 teams in the format (taken once a week - at least for the 2 weeks of the format was undertaken)
http://braverius.blogspot.com.au/se...-max=2016-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=14
Across the teams that are currently having the most success, Every single team either utilises Xerneas, or values its spot in the metagame so high that it has at least two resistances to fairy type moves.
Through using this data, it can be observed that the most successful teams in this format recognise both Xerneas' value to their own teams as well their opponents, and the level of usage / countering would be indicative to a Pokemon belonging in the S tier.
Further, another quality which would leave xerneas in the S tier, would be to act as a supporter - in creating free turnsfor its teammates.
Xerneas is able to achieve this through the threat of its unique move. Geomancy. Geomancy is a move offering great pressure of a early, mid or late game sweep, through xerneas' access to powerful spread ( or single target) fairy moves (Dazzling gleam and moon blast) boosted by its unique ability fairy aura - essentially a free life orb.
The very threat of Xerneas on the field, is enough to see double targets, taunts, fake outs, knock offs, land into the slot in an effort to stop a likely early game loss. However all of this is minimal compared to the opponent's action when xerneas has indeed set up. Teammates are essentially free to do as they wish unless the opponent is willing to make hard reads, calling defensive Xerneas play - which may result in a game loss.
The final qualifying factor, regarding flaws and how they may be resolved is a matter shown with simplicity.
Xerneas has a Basestat of 680, featuring Defensive stats of 126 HP, 95 DEF. 98 SPDEF
As Xerneas is an "uber Pokemon" not much is able to ko it before it is able to set up and sweep. Notable exceptions include Aegislash and Ferrothorn, which still require boosting items and/or xerneas to gain speed before a ko can be reached.
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 28 HP / 12 Def Xerneas: 170-204 (82.9 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (104 BP) vs. 28 HP / 12 Def Xerneas: 162-192 (79 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It can be noted that there is an absence of Pokemon that both outspeed Xerneas and are able to get large damage off on it, due to its large bulk, this makes using fake out (to neutralise one Pokemon on a given turn) and redirectors easy features for any VGC team, but especially Xerneas teams which remove its weaknesses to strong super effective single target attacks. It is also seperated from contemporary set up sweepers as it gains the ability to "stay around" with the boosts it ascertains. A geomancy gives Xerneas the equivalent defensive boost of an Amnesia, making it even more troublesome to truly counter, as the weakness it has to poison and steel moves, generally comes in the way of special attacks. Therefore, it is essentially able to defeat the Pokemon that may have countered it, with nothing but a free turn.
I think it's fair to conclude, Xerneas whilst on paper seeming like a simple set up and sweep Pokemon offers much more pressure then one would expect from a simple A-Tier Pokemon. On team preview, one cannot under prepare for a Xerneas lead. Failing to lead correctly into Xerneas + Support = Game loss. Through the popularity of Xerneas (And the efforts made by successful teams in stopping its run), the large presence it has on the field helping it support its teammates as well as the lack of threats that can deal with the barest support, Xerneas should retain a place in the S tier - at least at this stage in the metagame.
On the topic of Xerneas and what moves it uses, I have seen a few people drop Dazzling Gleam for Thunder/Tbolt. If you see crobat as a Xerneas user, you know its going to taunt, so an electric move gives you a free KO and then you can switch out and set up later. It also hits Ho-oh, which is otherwise a hard counter with its base 154 SpD. While Xerneas is currently one-dimensional, its got the movepool to adapt to people countering it, and I'd be shocked if we didn't see a unique Xerneas top at a couple regionals.
I agree with the proposal that Groudon should move up to S+, because it's the single most defining pokemon in the meta, and Kang/Kyogre/Xerneas, while all extremely powerful, don't create the same type of havoc that Groudon does.
I agree with the proposal that Groudon should move up to S+, because it's the single most defining pokemon in the meta, and Kang/Kyogre/Xerneas, while all extremely powerful, don't create the same type of havoc that Groudon does.
I second Primal Groudon being S+ rank. It's the King of this format, just like how it's the King of Smogon Ubers. It's splash-able to the point where it can fit on just about any playstyle, work with almost any form of speed control (TR, Tailwind, can even spread paralysis with T-wave if it wanted to) has a stupidly good offensive movepool with attacking stats that allow for either full-on Physical, Special or Mixed attacking sets. Its typing + ability is so near-perfect that it can form a solid core with just about anything in the metagame while simultaneously blanket-checking a solid portion of the format. It has the ability to best the other 3 S-ranks (Kanga, Pogre and Xerneas) as well.
You're shooting yourself in the foot for NOT using this on your team, pretty much.
Also, the S minus rank should be removed and the 3 remaining S ranks should be in order of their general viability in the metagame. Whichever order that may be can be decided on, but either way, I feel Xerneas should be the one on top. Not only is it the best set up mon, but it's capable of running more than just Geomancy sets (it's arguably best set, however). Scarf sounds like a decent item to help it immediately outpace Mega Ray/Mence and kill both of them before taking unnecessary damage, while it can utilize its equally high physical attacking stat on a mixed LO set to use Rock Slide as a Talon/Ho-Oh lure, two would-be switchins.
You're shooting yourself in the foot for NOT using this on your team, pretty much.
Also, the S minus rank should be removed and the 3 remaining S ranks should be in order of their general viability in the metagame. Whichever order that may be can be decided on, but either way, I feel Xerneas should be the one on top. Not only is it the best set up mon, but it's capable of running more than just Geomancy sets (it's arguably best set, however). Scarf sounds like a decent item to help it immediately outpace Mega Ray/Mence and kill both of them before taking unnecessary damage, while it can utilize its equally high physical attacking stat on a mixed LO set to use Rock Slide as a Talon/Ho-Oh lure, two would-be switchins.
Last edited:
On the subject of xerneas coverage, it actualy has some nice moves it wants to run outside of Goemancy/A Fairy STAB
(all calcs are done at level 50 and doubles)(Moonblast is in there to compair if the other coverage is even worth to run,randome Dazzlings to prove as a worthwhile check in someway.) (Just use Cntr + f to find the pokes, i did most of them in the same order and skiped the once that made 0 influence like Thunder VS Primal Groundon/Dialga etc.)
(The line means there is another option that works better against this treath, Forget that for moonblast, common sense exists.)
(the ---- means it's unboosted.)
Hidden Power Ground:
Moonblast + ((((a bit of Dazzling Gleam)))):
Thunder:
Thunderbolt:
Focus Blast:
for all those wondering: these calculations are to show that Xerneas could infact adapt to almost every existing answere to it exept a very select group that can check it, these include Chansey, Blissey, Crobat, Cresselia, Primal Groundon, Mega-Metagross and Aegislash exept if i have missed one of them >.>
for Chansey/Blissey...they can paralyse it the after then turn it set up and they have switched in, so that's handy to check it with your team mate easier after taking a Focus blast, that you could aswell have aimed at it's team mate....
as for Thunderbolt, it is more useless then anything the 100% accuracy might be usefull, if only it did have a better chance to KO the needed checks (what it has a solid 0% chance to) while Thunder might lack accuracy it atleast gives you a 70% chance to KO that treath.
Focus Blast lacks accuracy aswell however 70% is still a solid chance to 1HKO Ferrothorn and have Fairly decent general coverage, aswell as dealing with some of the bulkiest walls sadly those aren't too great/common. With this list there viability as a moveslot should be Provided and justified. (exept for Thunderbolt)
(all calcs are done at level 50 and doubles)(Moonblast is in there to compair if the other coverage is even worth to run,randome Dazzlings to prove as a worthwhile check in someway.) (Just use Cntr + f to find the pokes, i did most of them in the same order and skiped the once that made 0 influence like Thunder VS Primal Groundon/Dialga etc.)
(The line means there is another option that works better against this treath, Forget that for moonblast, common sense exists.)
(the ---- means it's unboosted.)
Hidden Power Ground:
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Amoonguss: 90-107 (40.7 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 158-186 (100.6 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Mega Mawile: 114-136 (72.6 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO(20 Attack EV's= 1HKO with Iron Head, so this is max it could go with Special Defence without being redundant all the way. Run 84+Calm nature or 180 Sp defence+Adamant to get most out of it)
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 180 SpD Mega Mawile: 132-156 (84 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Mega Mawile: 132-156 (84 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 158-188 (116.1 - 138.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 110-130 (53.1 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dialga: 150-178 (72.4 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Primal Groudon: 164-194 (93.7 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Primal Groudon: 164-194 (79.2 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 90-107 (50.8 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 108-128 (64.6 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 90-108 (53.8 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aegislash-Shield: 82-98 (49.1 - 58.6%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 140-166 (90.3 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Camerupt: 146-172 (82.4 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-----252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 144-172 (72.7 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 288-340 (145.4 - 171.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
----252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 144-172 (86.7 - 103.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 158-186 (100.6 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Mega Mawile: 114-136 (72.6 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO(20 Attack EV's= 1HKO with Iron Head, so this is max it could go with Special Defence without being redundant all the way. Run 84+Calm nature or 180 Sp defence+Adamant to get most out of it)
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 180 SpD Mega Mawile: 132-156 (84 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Mega Mawile: 132-156 (84 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 158-188 (116.1 - 138.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 110-130 (53.1 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dialga: 150-178 (72.4 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Primal Groudon: 164-194 (93.7 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Primal Groudon: 164-194 (79.2 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 90-107 (50.8 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 108-128 (64.6 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 90-108 (53.8 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aegislash-Shield: 82-98 (49.1 - 58.6%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 140-166 (90.3 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Camerupt: 146-172 (82.4 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-----252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 144-172 (72.7 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 288-340 (145.4 - 171.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
----252+ SpA Xerneas Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 144-172 (86.7 - 103.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
Moonblast + ((((a bit of Dazzling Gleam)))):
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 123-145 (78.3 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(((((((+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 77-91 (49 - 57.9%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO))))))
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Mega Mawile: 90-106 (57.3 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(((((((+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Mega Mawile: 56-66 (35.6 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO))))))
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 190-225 (83.7 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(((((((+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cresselia: 90-106 (39.6 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO))))))
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cresselia: 144-169 (63.4 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(((((((+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 118-141 (51.9 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO))))))
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Amoonguss: 141-166 (63.8 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(((((((+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Amoonguss: 89-105 (40.2 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO))))))
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Lugia: 163-193 (76.5 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(((((((+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Lugia: 103-123 (48.3 - 57.7%) -- 51.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery)))))
(((((((+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Lugia: 103-123 (48.3 - 57.7%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO))))))
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 159-187 (90.3 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Primal Kyogre: 159-187 (76.8 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 132 HP / 4 SpD Talonflame: 158-186 (92.9 - 109.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
----252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Talonflame: 79-93 (51.6 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
----252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 132 HP / 4 SpD Talonflame: 79-93 (46.4 - 54.7%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 141-166 (73.4 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
----252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 71-84 (36.9 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
----252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 166-196 (86.4 - 102%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ho-Oh: 82-97 (38.4 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ho-Oh: 81-96 (44.7 - 53%) -- 31.3% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Ferrothorn: 99-117 (54.6 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 123-146 (90.4 - 107.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 150-177 (110.2 - 130.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 171-202 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dialga: 237-279 (114.4 - 134.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
----252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Dialga: 118-141 (57 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
----252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 85-102 (41 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
----252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Dialga: 87-103 (42 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Primal Groudon: 128-151 (73.1 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Primal Groudon: 128-151 (61.8 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (dazzling does under 50%)
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 141-166 (79.6 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 165-195 (85.9 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mewtwo: 256-303 (141.4 - 167.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mewtwo: 160-190 (88.3 - 104.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 84-99 (50.2 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 71-84 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aegislash-Shield: 64-76 (38.3 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 109-129 (70.3 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(((((((+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 69-81 (44.5 - 52.2%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO)))))
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Camerupt: 113-133 (63.8 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
----252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 28-33 (16.8 - 19.8%) -- guaranteed 6HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 56-66 (33.7 - 39.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(((((((+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 77-91 (49 - 57.9%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO))))))
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Mega Mawile: 90-106 (57.3 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(((((((+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Mega Mawile: 56-66 (35.6 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO))))))
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 190-225 (83.7 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(((((((+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cresselia: 90-106 (39.6 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO))))))
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cresselia: 144-169 (63.4 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(((((((+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 118-141 (51.9 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO))))))
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Amoonguss: 141-166 (63.8 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(((((((+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Amoonguss: 89-105 (40.2 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO))))))
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Lugia: 163-193 (76.5 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(((((((+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Lugia: 103-123 (48.3 - 57.7%) -- 51.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery)))))
(((((((+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Lugia: 103-123 (48.3 - 57.7%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO))))))
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 159-187 (90.3 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Primal Kyogre: 159-187 (76.8 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 132 HP / 4 SpD Talonflame: 158-186 (92.9 - 109.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
----252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Talonflame: 79-93 (51.6 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
----252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 132 HP / 4 SpD Talonflame: 79-93 (46.4 - 54.7%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 141-166 (73.4 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
----252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 71-84 (36.9 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
----252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 166-196 (86.4 - 102%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ho-Oh: 82-97 (38.4 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ho-Oh: 81-96 (44.7 - 53%) -- 31.3% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Ferrothorn: 99-117 (54.6 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 123-146 (90.4 - 107.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 150-177 (110.2 - 130.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 171-202 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dialga: 237-279 (114.4 - 134.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
----252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Dialga: 118-141 (57 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
----252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 85-102 (41 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
----252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Dialga: 87-103 (42 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Primal Groudon: 128-151 (73.1 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Primal Groudon: 128-151 (61.8 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (dazzling does under 50%)
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 141-166 (79.6 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 165-195 (85.9 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mewtwo: 256-303 (141.4 - 167.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mewtwo: 160-190 (88.3 - 104.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 84-99 (50.2 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 71-84 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aegislash-Shield: 64-76 (38.3 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 109-129 (70.3 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(((((((+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 69-81 (44.5 - 52.2%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO)))))
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Camerupt: 113-133 (63.8 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
----252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 28-33 (16.8 - 19.8%) -- guaranteed 6HKO
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 56-66 (33.7 - 39.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Thunder:
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 145-171 (92.3 - 108.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Mega Mawile: 105-124 (66.8 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Amoonguss: 82-97 (37.1 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 111-131 (48.8 - 57.7%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Lugia: 192-226 (90.1 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 186-220 (105.6 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Primal Kyogre: 184-218 (88.8 - 105.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 132 HP / 4 SpD Talonflame: 370-436 (217.6 - 256.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
----252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 132 HP / 4 SpD Talonflame: 186-220 (109.4 - 129.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
----252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Talonflame: 186-220 (121.5 - 143.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 328-388 (170.8 - 202%) -- guaranteed OHKO
----252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 166-196 (86.4 - 102%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ho-Oh: 192-226 (90.1 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ho-Oh: 192-226 (106 - 124.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 145-171 (106.6 - 125.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 175-206 (128.6 - 151.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 164-194 (92.6 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 97-115 (58 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 83-98 (49.7 - 58.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aegislash-Shield: 75-89 (44.9 - 53.2%) -- 32.8% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 127-150 (81.9 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 66-78 (39.7 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Mega Mawile: 105-124 (66.8 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Amoonguss: 82-97 (37.1 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 111-131 (48.8 - 57.7%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Lugia: 192-226 (90.1 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 186-220 (105.6 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Primal Kyogre: 184-218 (88.8 - 105.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 132 HP / 4 SpD Talonflame: 370-436 (217.6 - 256.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
----252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 132 HP / 4 SpD Talonflame: 186-220 (109.4 - 129.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
----252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Talonflame: 186-220 (121.5 - 143.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 328-388 (170.8 - 202%) -- guaranteed OHKO
----252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 166-196 (86.4 - 102%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ho-Oh: 192-226 (90.1 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ho-Oh: 192-226 (106 - 124.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 145-171 (106.6 - 125.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 175-206 (128.6 - 151.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 164-194 (92.6 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 97-115 (58 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 83-98 (49.7 - 58.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aegislash-Shield: 75-89 (44.9 - 53.2%) -- 32.8% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 127-150 (81.9 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 66-78 (39.7 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Thunderbolt:
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Mega Mawile: 86-102 (54.7 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 91-108 (40 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Lugia: 156-184 (73.2 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 152-180 (86.3 - 102.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 132 HP / 4 SpD Talonflame: 302-356 (177.6 - 209.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
----252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 132 HP / 4 SpD Talonflame: 152-180 (89.4 - 105.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
----252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Talonflame: 152-180 (99.3 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 270-318 (140.6 - 165.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
----252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 136-160 (70.8 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ho-Oh: 158-186 (74.1 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ho-Oh: 156-184 (86.1 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 119-140 (87.5 - 102.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 143-169 (105.1 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 135-159 (76.2 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 91-108 (40 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Lugia: 156-184 (73.2 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 152-180 (86.3 - 102.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 132 HP / 4 SpD Talonflame: 302-356 (177.6 - 209.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
----252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 132 HP / 4 SpD Talonflame: 152-180 (89.4 - 105.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
----252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Talonflame: 152-180 (99.3 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 270-318 (140.6 - 165.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
----252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 136-160 (70.8 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ho-Oh: 158-186 (74.1 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ho-Oh: 156-184 (86.1 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 119-140 (87.5 - 102.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 143-169 (105.1 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 135-159 (76.2 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Focus Blast:
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Mega Mawile: 114-135 (72.6 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Amoonguss: 90-106 (40.7 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Ferrothorn: 254-300 (140.3 - 165.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 156-184 (47.8 - 56.4%) -- 84.8% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 178-210 (53.7 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 218-258 (105.3 - 124.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dialga: 300-354 (144.9 - 171%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Primal Groudon: 164-193 (93.7 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Primal Groudon: 164-193 (79.2 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 180-212 (101.6 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 208-246 (108.3 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 139-164 (89.6 - 105.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
-----252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 144-170 (86.7 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
----252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 144-170 (72.7 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 286-338 (144.4 - 170.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Amoonguss: 90-106 (40.7 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Ferrothorn: 254-300 (140.3 - 165.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 156-184 (47.8 - 56.4%) -- 84.8% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 178-210 (53.7 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 218-258 (105.3 - 124.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dialga: 300-354 (144.9 - 171%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Primal Groudon: 164-193 (93.7 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Primal Groudon: 164-193 (79.2 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 180-212 (101.6 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 208-246 (108.3 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 139-164 (89.6 - 105.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
-----252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 144-170 (86.7 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
----252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 144-170 (72.7 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 286-338 (144.4 - 170.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
for all those wondering: these calculations are to show that Xerneas could infact adapt to almost every existing answere to it exept a very select group that can check it, these include Chansey, Blissey, Crobat, Cresselia, Primal Groundon, Mega-Metagross and Aegislash exept if i have missed one of them >.>
for Chansey/Blissey...they can paralyse it the after then turn it set up and they have switched in, so that's handy to check it with your team mate easier after taking a Focus blast, that you could aswell have aimed at it's team mate....
as for Thunderbolt, it is more useless then anything the 100% accuracy might be usefull, if only it did have a better chance to KO the needed checks (what it has a solid 0% chance to) while Thunder might lack accuracy it atleast gives you a 70% chance to KO that treath.
Focus Blast lacks accuracy aswell however 70% is still a solid chance to 1HKO Ferrothorn and have Fairly decent general coverage, aswell as dealing with some of the bulkiest walls sadly those aren't too great/common. With this list there viability as a moveslot should be Provided and justified. (exept for Thunderbolt)
Last edited:
Don't know why you listed thunderbolt at all since it's worse than moonblast in pretty much every scenario except for when moonblast is resisted + thunderbolt is SE. Whereas a neutral moonblast is stronger than a 2x SE thunderbolt and by extension a 2x resisted moonblast does more than neutral tbolt.
Thunder is kinda bad outside of ko'ing ho oh lol but have fun with that accuracy.
Aegis isn't a valid answer to cerneas since it must win every 50-50 against it via attacking and protect.
Hp ground and dazzling are pretty much the only viable coverage since ho oh isn't relevant enough to warrant it (pogre avoids the ohko regardless)
Speaking of Ho-Oh, why is it even A-? It has very little to offer since its typing + access to Tailwind is already covered by Talonflame (which happens to be a more reliable Tailwind user too) without having to take up a restricted legendary slot. It definitely has its niche in being able to check Xerneas + Mega Mawile + non-Rock Slide Primal Groudon in a single teamslot but thats pretty niche. B+ seems like a better fit for it.
As for Xerneas, it doesn't need to bother with coverage moves the majority of the time since a +2 Moonblast will be getting a 2HKO on most fairy resists which says a lot about how Xerneas has a lot of value even against prepared teams. I'd even go as far as to say that HP Ground is redundant coverage because it only hits Primal Groudon, Mega Mawile and Aegislash, the first two of which are already 2HKOd by a +2 Timid Moonblast and Aegislash is already one of the most unreliable checks to Xerneas since its forced to win every 50/50.
As for Xerneas, it doesn't need to bother with coverage moves the majority of the time since a +2 Moonblast will be getting a 2HKO on most fairy resists which says a lot about how Xerneas has a lot of value even against prepared teams. I'd even go as far as to say that HP Ground is redundant coverage because it only hits Primal Groudon, Mega Mawile and Aegislash, the first two of which are already 2HKOd by a +2 Timid Moonblast and Aegislash is already one of the most unreliable checks to Xerneas since its forced to win every 50/50.
Nominating Altaria Mega to C+ rank
With the right support, it can sweep unprepared team. With access to move as Psych Up or Dragon Dance, it's a really powerful sweeper w/ all the Xerneas around whch help them with Fairy Aura. Its access to a really strong Hyper Voice for the special set makes him good. Also has access to Cloud Nine to nullify rain or sun.
With the right support, it can sweep unprepared team. With access to move as Psych Up or Dragon Dance, it's a really powerful sweeper w/ all the Xerneas around whch help them with Fairy Aura. Its access to a really strong Hyper Voice for the special set makes him good. Also has access to Cloud Nine to nullify rain or sun.
The main reason is as you said, it's a niche slot to cover Xern + MM + Pdon (sans Rock Slide). But that fact alone is crazy important. The meta right now mianly focuses on how to beat those 3 mons when paired together, and Ho-oh does an excellent job at doig so. Eventually when the meta balances out, it might move down, but honestly, it deserves to stay in A-.
Because Sacred Fire is a thing
- Status