Project OU Theorymon

+ Volt Switch and Regenerator (Credit to Cobalion. )
+ Unaware and Recover
+ Prankster (Credit to Akumeoy )
+ Water / Fairy-typing and Moonblast (Credit to Tressed )

Good luck to all submissions, begin discussion n_n
Stunfisk: Hmmm I like it, I really can't tell how good it'll be because I am unsure of how bulky it is in comparison with the attackers of OU but it could be pretty neat to have something that can absorb a physical attack and get a haxed paralysis for free multiple times in a match. I'll have to look for the arguments for it and run some numbers to make a decision on it.

Poliwrath: So pretty much a better quagsire on the bulk and even SpA side but with a different typing. Idk what this covers that Quag doesn't though, it gains electric, psychic, fairy and flying weakness in exchange for dark and water resist and only 2x Grass weakness. That's honestly really bad, I guess it's Offensive pressure is better but idk seems really bad tbh.

Malamar: Ha, this is neat. So you throw this in as a catch to when your opponents sweeper is out of control but besides that it is pretty lack luster from what I can tell. Would it be the first Prankster to have a sleep inducer? That could be cool although Hypnosis accuracy is balls. I feel like this mon could use some way to abuse contrary instead of a new ability but I haven't been able to find something that'd do it well so this could be a step in the right direction. I feel it needs some move added onto Prankster though. Thunder Wave? Tell me if there's something I'm missing that it can abuse with Prankster though.

Vaporeon: NO. I refuse this on flavor alone, you can't mess with the sacred eeveelution typing wtf. Fine I'll analyze it, it's good as fuck. There I said it, but don't do it. A fairy with scald is pretty gnarly. We all know how good this typing is defensively, on an actual defensive-oriented mon this'll make this guy top tier, no question to me. He absolutely shits on rain too.

Edit: Ok I read more arguments and stuff.

It seems like people think Stunfisk will be able to tank a lot of stuff so that gives it points in my book! I also like how it can block opposing Volt Switch that's pretty cool.

Malamar seems more interesting to me, didn't understand how Power Split worked before so that seems pretty neat. The mindgames you can play do seem interesting but it seems like it'll be pretty hard to pull off so it might be gimmicky. People have been saying how this forces hard switches and sure that's the case but what does Malamar threaten after the hard switch lol. Getting a switch is cool and all but a lot of mons do that just by coming in and tanking a hit lol.

Poliwrath getting circle throw and being able to tank stuff like manaphy's energy ball makes it more interesting to me now. I do think people are overselling it still though because one of the main draws of the two current unaware users in Clefable and Quagsire currently are that they do not have many type weaknesses. Type weakness gives the ability to bop the mon before it gets rolling, and not being able to stop setup sweepers like Talonflame or Clefable kinda stinks.

I like that others are upset at Vaporeon getting another typing as well haha but I am surprised at people thinking it won't be that good, Water-Fairy defensively is really fucking good. Sure it keeps the same set but just by having that typing it threatens more things. It doesn't have to use Moonblast but it never hurts to be able to have coverage on Fighting, Dragon, Dark. I still think it is much better than people are giving it credit for.
 
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G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One For All
is a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Stunfisk : Sung to Jump Jump- STUNFISK BE VIABLE AS FUK! FUK! ×4

But seriously guys Stunfisk's uniqueness and utility is incredible. A flying check that blocks volt switch, spreads paralysis, poison AND burns, gets up rocks, has GOOD offensive presence for a defensive mon, has a slow STAB Volt Switch and a great defensive typing AND ability? Dats Stunfisk right there. Most likely getting my vote.

Poliwrath: Straight Outta CAP! (Legit there's a Water/Fighting CAPmon with Recover and Unaware). But besides that point, its an interesting option over Clefable or Quagsire. It has a SR resistance, it resists Dark, Bug, Water, Rock, Ice, etc, it has access to STAB circle throw to phaze opponents while doing damage (great with Hazards up). It unfortunately has a few sad factors, such as a Flying weakness, horrid in OU, super vunerable to all forms of status, lacks an immunity and in general has to much weaknesses. Its still a great option thought, and I think its even faster! Likely to vote for.

Malamar: While Prankster Malamar looks good on paper, its flaws just outweigh its benefits. First of all, it doesn't have GOOD utility options baring Topsy Turvy, making it super predictable and easily played around. Secondly, its Typing betrays the role it seeks. Thundurus I is an offensive Prankster that uses the ability to sweep and force switches, which it exploits extremely well, since electric is an excellent offensive type.
Sableye is a versatile troll ( there. I said it.) that abuses it excellent typing in conjunction with priority Taunt, WoW AND recover to shut down stall and offence alike or just mega and CM D.Pulse shit to death .
Klefki uses its great defensive typing to easily get up spikes, dual screens, SwaggPlay , and paralyze much of OU no sweat.
While it has añ immunity, Psychic isn't as good an immunity as per say Ground, Dragon or Normal/Fighting. It also slaps horrid weakness.
It can t even abuse the swtches it "forces" while Klefki sets or paralyze, Thundy kills something ànd Sable spreads more burns/heals. All thing does is spam superpower til it does dama…… Oh, silly me, wrong ability. Least likely to receive my vote.

Vapoureon: hate messing w/ eeveelutions. That's it. But while Water/Fairy is an EXCELLENT defensive ability, it set doesn't change at aall. It doesn't even use Moonblast. Unlikely to gain votes.
 
Honestly, I don't think that dismissing Vaporion just because of its flavor is right. It's a fantastic mon that makes great use of fairy/water typing. Tbh, I probably won't vote for it due to the other sweet submissions, which I'll talk about later.
 

OM

It's a starstruck world
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Stunfisk : Sung to Jump Jump- STUNFISK BE VIABLE AS FUK! FUK! ×4

But seriously guys Stunfisk's uniqueness and utility is incredible. A flying check that blocks volt switch, spreads paralysis, poison AND burns, gets up rocks, has GOOD offensive presence for a defensive mon, has a slow STAB Volt Switch and a great defensive typing AND ability? Dats Stunfisk right there. Most likely getting my vote.

Poliwrath: Straight Outta CAP! (Legit there's a Water/Fighting CAPmon with Recover and Unaware). But besides that point, its an interesting option over Clefable or Quagsire. It has a SR resistance, it resists Dark, Bug, Water, Rock, Ice, etc, it has access to STAB circle throw to phaze opponents while doing damage (great with Hazards up). It unfortunately has a few sad factors, such as a Flying weakness, horrid in OU, super vunerable to all forms of status, lacks an immunity and in general has to much weaknesses. Its still a great option thought, and I think its even faster! Likely to vote for.

Malamar: While Prankster Malamar looks good on paper, its flaws just outweigh its benefits. First of all, it doesn't have GOOD utility options baring Topsy Turvy, making it super predictable and easily played around. Secondly, its Typing betrays the role it seeks. Thundurus I is an offensive Prankster that uses the ability to sweep and force switches, which it exploits extremely well, since electric is an excellent offensive type.
Sableye is a versatile troll ( there. I said it.) that abuses it excellent typing in conjunction with priority Taunt, WoW AND recover to shut down stall and offence alike or just mega and CM D.Pulse shit to death .
Klefki uses its great defensive typing to easily get up spikes, dual screens, SwaggPlay , and paralyze much of OU no sweat.
While it has añ immunity, Psychic isn't as good an immunity as per say Ground, Dragon or Normal/Fighting. It also slaps horrid weakness.
It can t even abuse the swtches it "forces" while Klefki sets or paralyze, Thundy kills something ànd Sable spreads more burns/heals. All thing does is spam superpower til it does dama…… Oh, silly me, wrong ability. Least likely to receive my vote.

Vapoureon: hate messing w/ eeveelutions. That's it. But while Water/Fairy is an EXCELLENT defensive ability, it set doesn't change at aall. It doesn't even use Moonblast. Unlikely to gain votes.
Nice Double post btw

Honestly, I don't think that dismissing Vaporion just because of its flavor is right. It's a fantastic mon that makes great use of fairy/water typing. Tbh, I probably won't vote for it due to the other sweet submissions, which I'll talk about later.
Seriously Though Water/Fairy is pretty good, but doesn't change much about vaporeon; if you gave it Recover that'd be a different story.

Malamar: Utility Spam Right There. Literally just klefki with worse typing.

Politoed: Cancer to Set Up, As well as becoming an insanely good knock off absorber with phazing too; The Flying/Electric Weakness hurts a Lot though

Stunfisk: OML. This thing is literally just part of politoed's defensive core, paired with celebi and you have a Pretty good resistance core. With volt Switch and Regenerator it can smack slower while getting out of there, keeping momentum up. <--- great on offence/Balance teams.
 
SUP EVERYONE! I'M BACK FROM THE DEAD!!!... Or at least, from the school I was teaching at for the last 6 weeks.

Anyway, I'm really happy to see most of the people liking the newest slate (as do I) and I'm still not sure which nominee (or should I say slatee... is that even a word?) will win.

Since there hasn't been a lot of discussion for some days, I'm gonna write my thoughts on Stunfisk a bit.

From the previous posts I read, you guys imply that Stunfisk would be using Leftovers as its item, but I had a wild thought about giving it an Assault Vest instead. Maybe it'll be good, maybe it won't, I'm not sure (afterall, we're all here for theorymonning purposes, right?). The point is, with an Assualt Vest and a fully HP/Def-invested spread, Stunfisk can take hits from both sides of the spectrum pretty well and be an excellent stop to birdspam (if that's still a thing) and Electric-types in general.

Stunfisk @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
- Volt Switch
- Discharge
- Earth Power
- Scald

A slow Volt Switch coupled with Regenerator makes it a great pivot. Discharge comes in handy to paralyse fast threats (and you what they say about 30% occuring secondary effects...). Earth Power also gets STAB and does decent damage (not to mention that potential SpDef drop). Finally, Scald rounds out the set to burn those pesky physical attackers. There probably is a better stat spread that I'm unaware of, but I'll keep it that way for now.

252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Stunfisk: 133-157 (31.5 - 37.2%) -- 83.7% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Mega Altaria Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 172-204 (40.7 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 164-192 (38.8 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

224 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Stunfisk: 152-180 (36 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Stunfisk: 134-158 (31.7 - 37.4%) -- 86.5% chance to 3HKO

96 SpA Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Stunfisk: 142-169 (33.6 - 40%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (DAT BULK!!!)

252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 178-210 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Stunfisk: 187-220 (44.3 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
-2 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Stunfisk: 94-110 (22.2 - 26%) -- possible 7HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 138-164 (32.7 - 38.8%) -- 99.3% chance to 3HKO

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 153-180 (36.2 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+2 44 Atk Mega Scizor Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 164-194 (38.8 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 44 Atk Mega Scizor Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 111-131 (26.3 - 31%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252 Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 115-136 (27.2 - 32.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Stunfisk: 112-133 (26.5 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

76 Atk Life Orb Tornadus-T Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stunfisk: 97-116 (22.9 - 27.4%) -- possible 8HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Stunfisk: 114-136 (27 - 32.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Stunfisk: 153-180 (36.2 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Mega Manectric Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Stunfisk: 90-108 (21.3 - 25.5%) -- 0.5% chance to 4HKO

And that's it (A rank is full of Ground-, Water- and Grass-types, which greatly trouble Stunfisk, especially Grass-types).


Alright, so that's all from me (at least, for now)! I'll probably vote for either Stunfisk or Poliwrath, but I just might have a different mindset when the voting phase comes on.
 
Gonna play the devil's advocate and argue against Malamar.

There's no doubt it brings some pretty sweet utility with Prankster. Topsy-Turvy, Destiny Bond, Taunt, Reflect, Light Screen, Block, Trick Room, and even Rain Dance/Sunny Day are all cool moves in combination with Prankster, but I don't think there enough to make him viable in OU. Dark/Psychic is such a shit typing for a defensive mon. 1 resistance + 2 weaknesses brings zero defensive utility to your team. Hoopa-Unbound shares this typing, and it's one of the reasons it isn't broken in OU (along with bad Defense and mediocre speed). The 4x weakness to U-turn really sucks, since Malamar is forced out by everything with the move, giving your opponent free momentum (unless you pair it with something like TankChomp i guess). Destiny Bond can circumvent this a bit, but your still going to lose your malamar, paving the way for your opponents set up sweeper.

He'd probably fit in best on Offensive teams, but, again, his typing is a huge let down. 86/88/75 bulk isn't that great, and he has a hard time finding switch ins, unlike Klefki, another utility mon that fits in on Offensive teams. He can literally only switch in on the most passive mons, and even then he doesn't like taking damage because his only recovery is Leftovers/Rest. To make matters worse, he can't really do anything to bulky mons, besides Taunt them and Knock Off their items. The only offensive mons he can switch into and threaten are Alakazam and Gengar, who can both run Dazzling Gleam if they really want to.

I do think he would be slightly viable in OU, but not nearly as much as the other mons on the slate.
 

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
I agree that Malamar is far too specialized. It's literally just Topsy-Turvy and Destiny Bond with none of the defensive or offensive utility that other Pranksters have. Thundurus can threaten to kill things, while Klefki can wall some stuff with its great defensive typing and set up Spikes. Even other niche Pranksters like Whimsicott and normal Sableye are really, really, really annoying if you don't have something like Clefable to deal with them and they get a free turn. Malamar is just there to inconvenience some stuff for a turn and die.

btw Trick Room's priority is still negative 5 or whatever after Prankster.
 

Infernal

Banned deucer.
-Never noticed this thread until today, wanted to share my thoughts-
Stunfisk's typing is hot, making it a great check to threats like Tornadus-T, Mega Manectric, Raikou, Mega Pinsir, and even Mega Metagross with proper defense investment. It's always been held back by lack of recovery, limiting how reliably/consistently it can handle those threats. Regenerator helps with this issue tons and finally gives players an incentive to use it, providing Stunfisk with the form of recovery it's been craving forever. SR and Volt Switch round things off and make Stunfisk a great supporter, giving it all the tools it needs to succeed.
Unaware Poliwrath with Recover could be interesting. Compared to Quagsire, it's a better answer to Bisharp, Weavile, and Crawdaunt. It has better offenses, and higher overall bulk to handle Charizard-X. However, I think Quagsire's typing makes it better overall. Water/Ground means Quagsire can handle more threats, such as Mega Manectric, Raikou, Talonflame, and Mega Metagross lacking GK. Like Poliwrath, Quagsire is still able to take on Bisharp and Charizard-X well. Quagsire's wider coverage over threats and comparable traits makes it hard to justify using Poliwrath over it, unless your team needs better security against darks. Regardless, giving Poliwrath Recover is great. Even though Quagsire can do something similar with Curse, Bulk Up Poliwrath would be neat with Circle Throw. It'd be interesting to see Poliwrath have Recover with Water Absorb, because then it'd be a Scald absorber, letting it check Keldeo and wall mono attacking Manaphy/Suicune.

Prankster does give Malamar some cool tricks. The biggest is probably priority Destiny Bond, letting it grab some last ditch/surprise kills. Priority screens with Light Clay could be fun on HO builds. It can be used alongside Destiny Bond to potentially give a teammate a free switch in, or Taunt to prevent SR or boosting attempts. Priority Hypnosis could be neat on these sets or in general, although held back by accuracy issues. Another possible way to abuse Prankster is with a choice item and Switcheroo, toying with something's item. Priority Topsy-Turvy could be experimented with to mess with several boosters. Although all of these options could be fun to try, Malamar is still really weak, has mediocre stats, and comes with a bad U-turn weakness. The big lack of offensive presence really hurts, so I don't think Prankster would be enough to give this thing a place in OU.

At a glance, Water/Fairy Vaporeon with Moonblast seems nice. On paper, the new typing gives Vaporeon the potential to handle Pokemon like Keldeo and Charizard-X more reliably. However, Vaporeon has moveslot issues. Wish, Protect, and Scald are a given. From there, you have to choose between Toxic, Heal Bell, Roar, and Moonblast. Without Toxic, you can't threaten Charizard-X and poison things trying to set up on you, like Manaphy. Roar helps with this a bit, but only delays the situation and doesn't help in 1v1 situations. Without Moonblast, you can't prevent CM Keldeo from setting up, or damage Mega Gyarados. No Heal Bell means Vaporeon becomes vulnerable to status, and can't provide cleric support for its teammates. All of that aside, the biggest thing holding Vaporeon back is its passiveness. Even with the new typing, it's still a sitting duck for things like Ferrothorn, Serperior, Mega Venusaur, and several electric types. The main benefit of the new typing is completely walling Weavile and Crawdaunt, but outside of that, I think Vaporeon still has many of the same issues as it does with its regular typing.

Personally, I'd say Regenerator Stunfisk is the best Pokemon on the slate here, and the one with the best overall utility in OU. The other options have merits, but wouldn't be enough to give the Pokemon notable enough use in OU from my point of view.
 
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Alright everyone! Thank you all for discussing, arguing and delivering your thoughts and ideas on the PRESENT slate (dat christmas pun though...)! With that said, it's been some time since the last post was written and you know what that means...

IT'S VOTING TIME!!!

Here's our gorgeous (and blue) slate to choose from:


+ Volt Switch and Regenerator (Credit to Cobalion.)​

+ Unaware and Recover

+ Prankster (Credit to Akumeoy)

+ Water / Fairy-typing and Moonblast (Credit to Tressed)


And here's our Honorable Mentions list:
- Tornadus + Competitive
- Typhlosion + Drought
- Spiritomb + Dark Aura
- Mega Tyranitar + Sand Force
- Mega Garchomp + Weak Armor
- Electric / Dark Thundurus-T
- Miltank + Ground-type
- Mesprit + Download and Judgment
- Azelf + Fairy-typing (replaces Psychic-typing) and Mold Breaker
- Zygarde + Hustle
Now, in order to vote you must have your stuff like my vote here: a bolded mon, with the bolded honorable mention if you wish to vote for one.

Ignorant tadpole (Poliwrath + Unaware and Recover)
Honorable Mention: Count Dooku (Thundurus-T + Electric/Dark-typing)

Happy voting and enjoy the snow (if you have any)!


MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU!!! JOYEUX NOËL À TOUS!!!
 

G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One For All
is a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Dat Healing Flatfish
(Stunfisk + Volt Switch and Regenerator)
HM:
Super Pixie with mouldy smell
(Azelf + Fairy typing and Mold Breaker)
 

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Stunfisk + Volt Switch + Regenerator

Honorable Mention: Azelf + Fairy-typing and Mold Breaker

Tressed you're my homie and Vaporeon is objectively the best Eeveelution, but we don't need another Fairy running around.
 

OM

It's a starstruck world
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Stunfisk + Volt Switch & Regenerator

Honorable Mention: Zygarde + Hustle
 
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And here's our Honorable Mentions list:
- Tornadus + Competitive
- Typhlosion + Drought
- Spiritomb + Dark Aura
- Mega Tyranitar + Sand Force
- Mega Garchomp + Weak Armor
- Electric / Dark Thundurus-T
- Miltank + Ground-type
- Mesprit + Download and Judgment
- Azelf + Fairy-typing (replaces Psychic-typing) and Mold Breaker
- Zygarde + Hustle
Hey, where'd prankster infernape go? wasn't that a HM?

Anyways, I vote for Volt switch+Regenerator stuntfish

Honorable Mention: Fairy Azelf with Mold Breaker
 
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