Gods and Followers

[Knuckstrike]

Can we not put 10 gods in the 5 star rank please? I could see an argument for mence/kyogre to go but Xerneas, Yveltal and Dialga have too many problems to be considered 5 star.
Yveltal does have a good type combination to build a team around but is not the strongest god around. It also fares badly around the prevalent Fairy teams and doesn't have many positive matchups against the most useful gods.
Xerneas is one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful, god around that can sweep through an entire team. However, its mono-fairy gives a great teambuilding restriction that fails to cover steel-type threats (Azu and diancie do ok I guess?) and is very one-sided. It has a good mega but you're required to go to whimsicott/regular gardevoir lengths to get a decent team together. If Xerneas can't sweep, it's very tough to make good progress.
Dialga is a nice bulky god but doesn't have quite the power or means to excel as well as other gods. It can't plow through the opponent's team nearly as well as a kyogre/mence/xern/arceus can. Dragon/Steel combination is nice on paper but even kyogre teams have good means to deal with it (Swampert, Keldeo, Kingdra) and it doesn't enjoy a very positive matchup against any other god really.

Of course, all three of those are perfectly viable but not nearly flawless enough to put on 5star rank.

And yeah put kyogre higher pls. Seems one-sided but has all the means to deal with all prevalent gods.

 

[BoxcarJack]

i know there isn't a folder thingy for either of the latis but i've been running a team with soul dew latias as a god and its seemed to do decent. is there another thread or can i post it here or whats the "correct" place to put it? i just don't want to post anything in the wrong place, i know the latis are technically OU but with soul dew being legal in ubers...idk how exactly to classify them. anyways i'm off topic, where should i put the team?

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

i know there isn't a folder thingy for either of the latis but i've been running a team with soul dew latias as a god and its seemed to do decent. is there another thread or can i post it here or whats the "correct" place to put it? i just don't want to post anything in the wrong place, i know the latis are technically OU but with soul dew being legal in ubers...idk how exactly to classify them. anyways i'm off topic, where should i put the team?

I posted a Latios team on the previous page, and there's others that have posted their teams around here. I do believe it's a fine thing to do.

Yveltal does have a good type combination to build a team around but is not the strongest god around. It also fares badly around the prevalent Fairy teams and doesn't have many positive matchups against the most useful gods.

And yeah put kyogre higher pls. Seems one-sided but has all the means to deal with all prevalent gods.

I disagree with Yveltal, I think it's a perfectly fine choice for a God. Sure, Xern teams are a thorn in the nail, but not something a good teambuilder can't do anything about. Going to the basics here, what do we require from a God? I personally think that the God should be a Pokemon that is capable of actively being apart of the battle (either through power or bulk), retaining a solid typing and having sustainability. Yveltal ticks all of my requirements to a tee.

Now, Yveltal might not be "the strongest" around... but on the other hand, he is incredibly flexible. You want a powerful physical attacker with superb priority? He can do it. Want a mix attacker? He can do it. Want a wall? Hell, he can do even that (the Spdef tank set for instance)! Due to this versatility of his, you might easily find yourself taking a Brave Bird where you expected Oblivion Wing, or something similar to that. His movepool isn't the greatest though, but he's mostly set for the tier.
I don't really feel like explaining the use in his typing, but ah whatever I'll do it anyways. Flying, as we've all agreed on now, is the best typing in the tier. Tflame, Skarm, Lando, Thundy-I, Dnite... so many options that helps the way this type of team works of. Skarm for instance fits the playstyle Offensive Yveltal brings with success, stacking spikes for both Yveltal and the mons that his Dark side applies... Weavile and Bisharp being two of the big names. Hydreigon deserves a special note too.
Finally, his survivability is sublime. He has very solid bulk, combined with Roost as well as the draining Oblivion Wing. Taking him down usually requires a lot of power, yet things like Mmedi can't even ko from full, or status. But as it is, he's an incredible mon even in this meta and should always be considered as a choice.

-"but his matchup against the other Gods is bad!"
Well, I mean, I agree that he's not as good against Xern teams.... to an extent. The Fairy teams are actually pretty slow, so he can still dish out a good amount of hurt once Klefki has been handled. Only M-Diancie and M-Gard/Scarf Gard actually outspeeds, and the physical Yveltal hits incredibly hard against these squads. Also, +2 Xern is dangerous, yes, but these teams can usually chuck down the monster with priority or something. Or even stop Xern from setting up at all (Knocking Off the Power Herb is fun stuff). The remaining popular Gods either hate switching in, or fear Sucker Punch. Besides, your God isn't made to beat all other Gods. He's as much apart of the team as the followers. Just... the followers are more expendable. Like M-mence teams has to deal with Weavile and Bisharp, as well as Thundy-I or things similar.

So, personally, I think Yveltal is worthy as a 5-star hotel God.

Also, I agree with Ogre.

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

Can we not put 10 gods in the 5 star rank please? I could see an argument for mence/kyogre to go but Xerneas, Yveltal and Dialga have too many problems to be considered 5 star.
Yveltal does have a good type combination to build a team around but is not the strongest god around. It also fares badly around the prevalent Fairy teams and doesn't have many positive matchups against the most useful gods.
Xerneas is one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful, god around that can sweep through an entire team. However, its mono-fairy gives a great teambuilding restriction that fails to cover steel-type threats (Azu and diancie do ok I guess?) and is very one-sided. It has a good mega but you're required to go to whimsicott/regular gardevoir lengths to get a decent team together. If Xerneas can't sweep, it's very tough to make good progress.
Dialga is a nice bulky god but doesn't have quite the power or means to excel as well as other gods. It can't plow through the opponent's team nearly as well as a kyogre/mence/xern/arceus can. Dragon/Steel combination is nice on paper but even kyogre teams have good means to deal with it (Swampert, Keldeo, Kingdra) and it doesn't enjoy a very positive matchup against any other god really.

Of course, all three of those are perfectly viable but not nearly flawless enough to put on 5star rank.

And yeah put kyogre higher pls. Seems one-sided but has all the means to deal with all prevalent gods.

Alright, I'm just gonna say I entirely disagree with your Xerneas evaluation. Also, Whimsicott is one of its best partners, and regular Gardevoir is okay as well, but not necessary. In my opinion, Xerneas is one of, if not the best god at the moment, and I am actually gonna post my reasoning on why I think it should be banned.

A simple set of Geomancy/Moonblast/Focus Blast/Thunder allows it to sweep basically any other team. Ingrain and Aromatheraphy are also both very good options to beat certain "counters". Mono-Fairy typing might seem very limiting, but it offers some of the best support mons in the entire game. Klefki alone makes Xerneas VERY powerful, as it can easily set up and tank even super effective hits all day from behind screens, as well as providing TWave and Spikes support. Clefable offers Stealth Rock, which is helpful for getting chip damage on potential checks such as Skarmory, who rely on Sturdy to check Xerneas. Whimsicott can cripple things that might check it and buy set up opportunites with Stun Spore, Encore, and/or Switcheroo + Lagging Tail or Choice item. Mega Gardevoir or Mega Diancie can easily break down walls for a Xerneas sweep later. Azumarill complements Xerneas excellently by either smashing stuff first, or cleaning up after Xerneas goes down/is phazed/gets switched out (yes I know that there is the Curse effect, but you can switch it out when you know it's gonna be rked and save it, and while this makes it kinda useless, it has already broken down the opposing team a bit/a lot and you save your team from the Curse effect). This is the standard team build I've ran into, with the occasional Sylveon over the Mega or Whimsicott for Wish/Heal Bell support.

While this is somewhat predictable, it is very difficult to the point of overcentralization to counter. Teams that don't run a Steel-type god or PDon are very hard-pressed to defeat Xerneas teams. Most of Xerneas' counters are in Uber, and to dedicate your god to defeating it, especially when it has ways around many of its counters, is overcentralizing imo. Teams with Gods such as Yveltal, Palkia, Zekrom, and Mega Salamence (if you don't set up Mega Mence first, but still, Klefki uses TWave and Reflect and/or Foul Play to beat MegaMence) while good gods that normally would be very viable have reduced effectiveness due to the popularity and powerfulness of Xerneas teams.

Basically, unless you use a Steel-type god/PDon, you will be very hard pressed to beat a well played Xerneas team without hax, as it has few counters in OU and below, and has all the support it needs from its teammates. It is by far the best god atm imo, and deserves to be banned due to lack of counters and being overcentralizing.

 

[Knuckstrike]

Hi infernape. As noted, Xerneas is an amazing god and if any other team would accompany it, it would easily get 5 stars too in my opinion.
However, the problem with Xerneas is that its entire team is support for the xerneas sweep. Its only other win conditions are Clefable and a mega but it's all very one-sided. Its team may support it well, but can't pull off much in the early game except hindering the opponent. If anything happens to Xerneas and you can't heal it back up, you've basically lost against most well-designed teams.
And of course "teams with a weakness to xerneas" have been reduced in effectiveness because of Xerneas, as is the case with any other good god having a similar effect.

To Kawaii, yes Yveltal is flexible but so are most other gods (Arceus, Salamence, Groudon, Kyogre). Any of them can go offensive or defensive which is not a trait reserved for yveltal, and neither is fearing to switch into it. Sucker punch is a good move but gods usually don't die to it and can retaliate strongly or set up. And you usually don't want to risk it vs regular OU mons.

I see the 5 star rank as a top tier god with a top tier team and Yveltal misses the top tier god while Xerneas misses the top tier team (unlike mence, kyogre). Most ubers have a decent team possibility around them, don't put it in 5 because of it :]

 

[Imperator Romanum]

I really have no clue why we're using this confusing star system, what is the point over just a god viability rankings? Anyways, the top three gods are yveltal, xerneas and dialga. They're there because they offer a fuck-ton of support with their typing(s)

Considering kyogre for s is a joke lol, you auto lose to primal don and then you also struggle immensely with all the priority running arojnd

 

[Funbot28]

Ya for now I can see five star as:
Xerneas
Mega Salamence
Yveltal

I am not too convinced on Dialga yet as I haven't really faced any real good teams with it yet. Kyogre for S is funny lol (maybe primal, but still naw)

 

[Ransei]

As for now in my opinion, I think we should still keep Groudon-Primal at 4 stars. It's really good and makes a fairly well team even though it's rarely used, but I believe Groudon-Primal can do much more than Mewtwo-Mega-X who is also at 3 stars and Funbot28, Mawile-Mega should be able to reach at least 4 if not 5 star god quality once Xerneas teams get weaker if they do get nerfed. Mawile would probably still have access to many good steel types like Klefki who can support with both Reflect and Light Screen, Heatran who can wall out flying and fire type moves like a boss, and Skarmory who can defog hazards away.

As for now, some of my my 5 and 4 star opinions

5 stars
-Xerneas (Xerneas teams have more options any anything else, they have extremely strong sweepers that can be defended by Reflect and Light Screen so opponents would barely do any damage to the sweepers causing them to set up and sweep much easier. This includes access to Geomancy, Huge Power, Belly Drum, and Priority.)
-Yveltal (Dark and Flying teams carry a lot of coverage and strong Dark types, even Yveltal itself packs tons of power. Yveltal teams also have access to some of the best Pokemon around since it's flying.)
-Dialga (Dialga itself runs coverage while the rest run bulky Steel and Dragon types who together combine into a powerful combo which can take down flying teams that Yveltal and Rayquaza own. Other than this, Dialga is one of the most popular gods.
-Salamence-Mega (Salamence-Mega is basically better than Rayquaza in this metagame when it comes to using physical attacks and STAB but doesn't have access to really helpful moves like V-Create and Extreme Speed, doesn't have access to much items like Focus Sash, Lum Berry, and Choice Band, nor has as much Special Attack and coverage like Rayquaza.)
-Rayquaza (Yeah um, that Salamence-Mega comment I made explains this.)
-Arceus-Normal (I actually don't see why this isn't here. It runs a team who is very good on coverage to take down so many Pokemon, has many options on bulk to support the team like Eviolite Porygon2 and Chansey, and Arceus itself is like a bulkier Rayquaza who actually has access to STAB Extreme Speed.)

Four stars
-Kyogre-Primal
-Mawile-Mega
-Groudon-Primal
-Aegislash

One star
-

Koffing (Placed this here because I tried it out for some Smogon fun. Poison itself is the worst type of team in Gods and Followers due to the limited amount of good Pokemon that can be used and a very limited amount of good options unlike fairy, but it can still beat some things. Eviolite Koffing surprisingly is one of few Poison type Pokemon who is even able to tank really strong attacks in the poison group.)

 

[yoman5]

Ya for now I can see five star as:
Xerneas
Mega Salamence
Yveltal

I am not too convinced on Dialga yet as I haven't really faced any real good teams with it yet. Kyogre for S is funny lol (maybe primal, but still naw)

I personally think pogre is actually far worse than scarf or specs ogre in this meta, but ogre is far from 5 stars because of the narrow range of teammates and lack of water type xern answer. I would say ogre is 4 star to 5 individually, but with the team accompanying it in mind I would say 3 stars, maybe up to 4 with mence gone (checking or walling mence is a lot easier for a water team than checking mega Ray).

 

[Deathly ♛The King]

Hi infernape. As noted, Xerneas is an amazing god and if any other team would accompany it, it would easily get 5 stars too in my opinion.
However, the problem with Xerneas is that its entire team is support for the xerneas sweep. Its only other win conditions are Clefable and a mega but it's all very one-sided. Its team may support it well, but can't pull off much in the early game except hindering the opponent. If anything happens to Xerneas and you can't heal it back up, you've basically lost against most well-designed teams.
And of course "teams with a weakness to xerneas" have been reduced in effectiveness because of Xerneas, as is the case with any other good god having a similar effect.

The underlined part is completely wrong. Xerneas teams have access to multiple sweepers, namely Mega Diancie, Mega Gardevoir, Azumarill, Clefable, and Slurpuff. Togekiss can also be used to sweep against more defensive teams, however those are very, very rare. Xerneas teams are able to stack threats much like Birdspam, with the other offensive threats wearing down Xerneas's checks. As someone who quite easily topped the ladder multiple times, peaking at 1420, with a Xerneas team, I can guarantee that I know what I'm talking about. Note that I am commonly seen as merely an average player, so being amazing isn't really the reason that I'm doing well. Xerneas has demonstrated its ability to rip apart almost every team over and over again, with some teams being able to do nothing except use a Pokemon such as SpD Jirachi to live a singular hit and Thunder Wave it.

To Kawaii, yes Yveltal is flexible but so are most other gods (Arceus, Salamence, Groudon, Kyogre). Any of them can go offensive or defensive which is not a trait reserved for yveltal, and neither is fearing to switch into it. Sucker punch is a good move but gods usually don't die to it and can retaliate or set up more powerful. And you usually don't want to risk it vs regular OU mons.

I see the 5 star rank as a top tier god with a top tier team and Yveltal misses the top tier god while Xerneas misses the top tier team (unlike mence, kyogre). Most ubers have a decent team possibility around them, don't put it in 5 because of it :]

Let it be noted that I've never lost to a Mega Salamence or a Kyogre team with using Xerneas, two teams that you say are better. Mence you can blame on matchup if you want, but there's no denying that Xerneas is better than Kyogre.

Xerneas teams even have ways of getting past their worst matchups. I've found that the most annoying offensive Pokemon, such as Magnezone and Jirachi, tend to be easily crippled by Whimsicott's Switcheroo, while the defensive Pokemon are destroyed through various means. Diancie-Mega's or Gardevoir-Mega's HP Fire can usually let it beat or weaken Pokemon such as Skarmory or Ferrothorn, leaving holes in the team that let Xerneas or Azumarill clean up. Many of the most common ways that people think they can beat Xerneas, such as Skarmory and Ho-Oh, are completely ruined by Stealth Rock. Aegislash and Doublade both lack recovery, and lose to some Xerneas sets. Primal Groudon also lacks recovery and can be worn down, and they won't risk their god dying unless absolutely necessary.

 

[Jajoken]

Can we not put 10 gods in the 5 star rank please? I could see an argument for mence/kyogre to go but Xerneas, Yveltal and Dialga have too many problems to be considered 5 star.
Yveltal does have a good type combination to build a team around but is not the strongest god around. It also fares badly around the prevalent Fairy teams and doesn't have many positive matchups against the most useful gods.
Xerneas is one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful, god around that can sweep through an entire team. However, its mono-fairy gives a great teambuilding restriction that fails to cover steel-type threats (Azu and diancie do ok I guess?) and is very one-sided. It has a good mega but you're required to go to whimsicott/regular gardevoir lengths to get a decent team together. If Xerneas can't sweep, it's very tough to make good progress.
Dialga is a nice bulky god but doesn't have quite the power or means to excel as well as other gods. It can't plow through the opponent's team nearly as well as a kyogre/mence/xern/arceus can. Dragon/Steel combination is nice on paper but even kyogre teams have good means to deal with it (Swampert, Keldeo, Kingdra) and it doesn't enjoy a very positive matchup against any other god really.

Of course, all three of those are perfectly viable but not nearly flawless enough to put on 5star rank.

And yeah put kyogre higher pls. Seems one-sided but has all the means to deal with all prevalent gods.

I'm being a little more generous with five-star nominations just because it's empty right now -- not all of them will get in, I assure you. I'm less sure on Dialga than Yveltal, but the teams it can make are fairly anti-meta when you consider the best gods right now.

i know there isn't a folder thingy for either of the latis but i've been running a team with soul dew latias as a god and its seemed to do decent. is there another thread or can i post it here or whats the "correct" place to put it? i just don't want to post anything in the wrong place, i know the latis are technically OU but with soul dew being legal in ubers...idk how exactly to classify them. anyways i'm off topic, where should i put the team?

Latios and Latias have always had folders on the archive. As Kawaii said, just post the importable and a description and I'll add it to that post.

Alright, I'm just gonna say I entirely disagree with your Xerneas evaluation. Also, Whimsicott is one of its best partners, and regular Gardevoir is okay as well, but not necessary. In my opinion, Xerneas is one of, if not the best god at the moment, and I am actually gonna post my reasoning on why I think it should be banned.

A simple set of Geomancy/Moonblast/Focus Blast/Thunder allows it to sweep basically any other team. Ingrain and Aromatheraphy are also both very good options to beat certain "counters". Mono-Fairy typing might seem very limiting, but it offers some of the best support mons in the entire game. Klefki alone makes Xerneas VERY powerful, as it can easily set up and tank even super effective hits all day from behind screens, as well as providing TWave and Spikes support. Clefable offers Stealth Rock, which is helpful for getting chip damage on potential checks such as Skarmory, who rely on Sturdy to check Xerneas. Whimsicott can cripple things that might check it and buy set up opportunites with Stun Spore, Encore, and/or Switcheroo + Lagging Tail or Choice item. Mega Gardevoir or Mega Diancie can easily break down walls for a Xerneas sweep later. Azumarill complements Xerneas excellently by either smashing stuff first, or cleaning up after Xerneas goes down/is phazed/gets switched out (yes I know that there is the Curse effect, but you can switch it out when you know it's gonna be rked and save it, and while this makes it kinda useless, it has already broken down the opposing team a bit/a lot and you save your team from the Curse effect). This is the standard team build I've ran into, with the occasional Sylveon over the Mega or Whimsicott for Wish/Heal Bell support.

While this is somewhat predictable, it is very difficult to the point of overcentralization to counter. Teams that don't run a Steel-type god or PDon are very hard-pressed to defeat Xerneas teams. Most of Xerneas' counters are in Uber, and to dedicate your god to defeating it, especially when it has ways around many of its counters, is overcentralizing imo. Teams with Gods such as Yveltal, Palkia, Zekrom, and Mega Salamence (if you don't set up Mega Mence first, but still, Klefki uses TWave and Reflect and/or Foul Play to beat MegaMence) while good gods that normally would be very viable have reduced effectiveness due to the popularity and powerfulness of Xerneas teams.

Basically, unless you use a Steel-type god/PDon, you will be very hard pressed to beat a well played Xerneas team without hax, as it has few counters in OU and below, and has all the support it needs from its teammates. It is by far the best god atm imo, and deserves to be banned due to lack of counters and being overcentralizing.

Xerneas is definitely on the radar but I'm letting the ladder have a few days to breath without Mega Rayquaza before any more suspect tests, and I think Xerneas has more weaknesses than you give it credit. For one, it basically only has one chance to setup, which means it is highly discouraged from switching unlike something like Arceus, which can fire off an attack and then switch only to possibly Recover later on. Being discouraged from switching is very dangerous for a god, as your death means a lot more than in Ubers. This only compounds an issue you pointed out, which is that it has several checks in Ubers, aka gods. Since most players preserve their god's HP until late game, any Uber that Xerneas struggles with can simple come in after Geomancy and win 1 on 1, which is worth sacking another follower for. I have more stuff to say, but I'll save it for any future suspects.

I really have no clue why we're using this confusing star system, what is the point over just a god viability rankings? Anyways, the top three gods are yveltal, xerneas and dialga. They're there because they offer a fuck-ton of support with their typing(s)

Considering kyogre for s is a joke lol, you auto lose to primal don and then you also struggle immensely with all the priority running arojnd

I like it better than the S-D system because I think people make unnecessarily stiff distinctions between stuff like B and C because they're different letters, whereas more accurately it's a sliding scale of viability that numbers do a better job of representing. Basically I'm just using the top/high/mid/low/bottom tier system that most fighting game viability rankings use, and I think Doubles does something similar.

I also added the Ho-oh team to the archive.

 

[Knuckstrike]

Just to give an argument for Kyogre, I think you people are highly underestimating Primal Kyogre and its team. Of course ladder ratings don't say too much, but you can't call primal kyogre "bad" when I've topped the ladder with it multiple times and am currently #1 (http://prntscr.com/9mldwz) by quite a bit with a kyogre team (haven't tried for much more tbh).

Kyogre's team isn't bad either. It has very important mons such as politoed/swampert which are a great core and don't even suffer in regular OU from team weaknesses with 2 extra water types on the team. Swampert just sweeps so easily through teams lacking a bulky water/grass which is like 90% of the meta rn and under rain it's outsped by almost nothing under rain. It has keldeo that can OHKO dialga if it's not heavily invested in physical defense, Empoleon which can support well, kingdra which can sweep through dialga teams after weakening ferro (and can kill mencemega even after the -2 drop from draco).
And contrary to previous accusations it doesn't autolose to pdon at all. Of course regular kyogre is terrible but pogre can support and sweep with a well built rain team behind it.

 

[DoW]

I honestly think Ho-Oh is being underrated at the moment. It checks a large number of good mons including Xern, Dialga, M-Maw, Aegi, and Giratina-O, while flying is not only one of the best types but also has a wide variety of defoggers to get rid of that rocks weakness. At the same time, fire gives access to mons such as Heatran and Victini which can be very useful, and Ho-Oh getting regen can be extremely useful when many teams rely on chip damage to wear down their opponent's god. I honestly wouldn't say any games I've played with it were bad matchups, and though obviously Kyogre won't be particularly fun, the variety of supporting mons means it can generally do well whatever the opponent's team. Because of this, I'd say it perfectly fits the description for Four-star rank.

 

[BoxcarJack]

Alrighty so heres the team thats worked pretty well for me after several renditions. For starters the god is soul dew latias because 1.) soul dew is broken and 2.) Latias is more bulky than her brother. her moveset is pretty simple, wish is flexible, there are times where latias will use it for herself so she can keep sweeping or bestow a blessing unto one of her loyal followers. defog is being ran because i really dont like dealing with entry hazards, and by running defog here i was able to drop starmie and run victini as a major F-you to skarmory. psyshock and draco are pretty self explanitory because theyre a powerhouse and there are plenty of times ill send latias in to get a kill or two then fall back. garchomp is a set i toyed around with a lot. i knew he would be my rocker so stealth rock was in, i also knew that i wanted to run earthquake because earthquake. i settled on toxic because status (although i am toying around with swords dance in this slot as well) and the last move is roar in hopes of pulling their god out early and hitting a mon with toxic (or maybe getting it off on their god?) i was running D-tail but with xerneas being a very real threat i swapped it for roar which seems to be doing fairly decent. Gardevior is another standard set built to sweep, there really isnt anything special there. Kyu-B was built to kill stuff as well (if you couldnt tell by the name "kill squad". roost is there because recovery is good, stab ice beam and meteor are self explanitory and Fusion bolt because even running a mixed set Kyu-b is strong enough to take things down, plus after a meteor since bolt is physical i can still hit hard after droping a meteor. mew is a standard stallbreaker set, because this team wants to kill everything it sees, and stall/walls just arent any fun. lastly is scarf victini because again F-you skarmory.

Latias Kill Squad

Latias @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Defog
- Psyshock
- Wish

Garchomp @ Leftovers
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Earthquake

Gardevoir-Mega @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Substitute

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 SpA
Lax Nature
- Roost
- Fusion Bolt
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- Soft-Boiled
- Will-O-Wisp
- Knock Off

Victini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Blue Flare
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn
- Psyshock

the team isnt perfect of course but it works fine so far, and for the purpose of people new to the OM i feel this is could make a decent starter team. *EDIT* swapped will-o for sub on MGard and fixed Garchomps ev spread

 

[StuckInTheMuk]

Garchomp @ Leftovers
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Earthquake

Gardevoir-Mega @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Will-O-Wisp

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- Soft-Boiled
- Will-O-Wisp
- Knock Off

There are only a couple things I find strange. One is that Garchomp has a completely offensive spread but only one attacking move. Go bulky or add Dragon STAB for offense would be my suggestion.
The other thing is that you have two burners and are missing out on other opportunities. I would suggest keeping Mew's set the same and then giving MGard either CM or Sub, so that you have a setup sweeper to pressure passive teams. Otherwise, if wisp is really useful on MGard then maybe drop it off Mew and run Heal Bell for your god. Your team is really weak to dark, idk what you would want to do about that but I can't really see you beating an Yveltal team. Other than that, it's a good team.

 

[BoxcarJack]

There are only a couple things I find strange. One is that Garchomp has a completely offensive spread but only one attacking move. Go bulky or add Dragon STAB for offense would be my suggestion.
The other thing is that you have two burners and are missing out on other opportunities. I would suggest keeping Mew's set the same and then giving MGard either CM or Sub, so that you have a setup sweeper to pressure passive teams. Otherwise, if wisp is really useful on MGard then maybe drop it off Mew and run Heal Bell for your god. Your team is really weak to dark, idk what you would want to do about that but I can't really see you beating an Yveltal team. Other than that, it's a good team.

wow i really wasnt paying attention there, thats a good call. i like the idea of sub MGard and i was running D-tail with the Garchomp spread and when i changed it to Roar i must have forgot to fix the spread. thats kinda embarrassing xD oops...

 

[Niadev]

Hey, I don't post often (as you can tell, I don't even have 10 posts), but this metagame is very interesting and an awesome and original concept. I'm fairly confident I have the general grasp of what makes a good God - It should be strong, ideally have recovery, or, if it doesn't, have enough positives to shadow this fact, and perhaps the most important factor IMO is that it should have a typing that has Pokemon in it capable of supporting it well. The God could easily be one of the best Pokemon around, but if it's type means it's team mates can't support it, that's going to kill it's viability (eg. a Poison god with flat 150s isn't going to be amazingly OP (it may still be on it's own) - I will be basing my ranking discussion off of these factors. Sorry for the long posts - I like to be as thorough as possible. I have formatted these reasonably well, so it won't be walls of text. I may also miss something, and constructive criticism would be appreciated. I'm relatively new to the Smogon forums (despite having lurked for a while), so if I'm doing something wrong, I'd like to know. Criticism is the first step to improvement after all :).

The ones I'll talk about (not necessarily in order):

3★ -> 5★

4★ -> 5★

4★ -> 5★

4★ -> 3★

And here my own nominations:

4★ -> 5★

Explanation

Yveltal has also been one of the most solid god picks pre- and post-ladder. The god itself has the versatility to go fully defensive or offensive on either spectrum (physical or special) with special mentions going to Roost, Oblivion Wing and Sucker Punch. The first two give it powerful options for passive and active recovery, which is highly valued on a god, and Sucker Punch allows it to hit incredibly hard without taking damage, provided it can kill. However, it wouldn't be 5-star if it also didn't have good team options to back it up, and Dark + Flying provides all the support it needs. It can run Mega Sableye + Talonflame, a menacing OU core that many teams in GaF struggle with. It also has access to Bisharp, Charizard, Altaria, Weavile, Tyranitar, Hydreigon, Dragonite and a whole bunch of good Defoggers like Zapdos. As a god, its the whole package, and I think any team should have to prepare for it.

4★ -> 5★

Explanation

Dialga possibly has one of the best typings for this OM, as it both provides the Dragon types that can deal with other Dragons offensively, and the Steel types to deal with them defensively. It isn't quite as bulky as some gods, with a still very respectable 100/120/100 spread, but its excellent defensive type (especially when paired with a Shuca Berry to deal with Ground types) makes it often difficult to take down, and 120/150 offensive stats are nothing to sneeze at even if lacking full investment. I've seen Dialga teams do very well and I think it deserves to rise.

Try to keep your posts organized. The council will discuss the nominations you've made and update the rankings sometime later in the week.

For these, I will generally follow the format - God itself (typically including sustain and notable traits), then teammates - with a summary of it's weaknesses, like, how Xerneas weak it is - and last words.

4★ -> 5★ -

Mega Salamence

I absolutely agree with Mega Salamence. Oh, I could gush about MegaMence alone all day... Mega Salamence on it's own is amazing - Bulky, very fast, and hard hitting. A Bulky god is amazing, as it makes it difficult to beat while doing damage. Oh, and don't think it can just run offensive. Even without defensive spreads, it's physical bulk is on par with Skamory (with Intimidate taken into account), and can run bulkier dragon dance sets as a result. Heck, if you want, you can run relatively gimmicky Toxic stall. On top of that, it can run Dragon Dance very effectively, and has access to Roost, massively increasing longevity with it's bulk considered, and Refresh, enabling it to break past things like Scald burns. It's able to run Return on bulkier spreads that want to survive, and Double-Edge on more offensive spreads, despite being a bit riskier, considering that it IS your God. The recoil can be mitigated by the aforementioned Roost, however. It can also run mixed or pure special sets, with nice special coverage like Aerilate Hyper Voice, Fire Blast, Hydro Pump, and a moderately hard hitting Draco Meteor. It's special coverage is a bit underwhelming and doesn't have the sheer oomph of a boosted Return. If you let it set up more than 1 DDance, unless you have a Skarmory that's very healthy, just forfeit. It's OVER.

And team options? Team options are really the icing on the cake. Dragon and Flying contain some of the most solid Pokemon in the game, with Pokemon like Landorus, Tornadus, Thundurus, Skarmory (the previous two can actually halt a GeoXern sweep), Talonflame, and more on just the flying. Dragon contains some gems, like Garchomp and Latio/as, who is an excellent offensive defogger. Dragon Flying also has other great defoggers, like Zapdos,

Team wise, though, it's got a large weakness to Xerneas (which is a given considering that thing has few answers at all) Ice Teams. However, there aren't many ice teams running around, except maybe Kyurem teams from time to time. It's bad enough MegaMence has it on it's own, without it's best teammates just compounding on this weakness, making Pokemon like Weavile difficult to play around. It's teams do, however, have ways to beat ice (Talonflame ftw) and fairy teams, so it's far from helpless.

Unfortunately, it has a bit of opportunity cost, being a mega God, meaning you can't run dragon or flying support/sweeper megas, but MegaMence on it's own is already good enough to eclipse many other options. However, it's easily one of, if not, the best God in the format for sheer consistency, power, and team options, and it's positives far outweigh the negatives, to the point where it's

nearly perfect, as gods should be.

4★ -> 3★ -

Primal Groudon

On Primal Groudon's drop, I agree. I play Ubers pretty frequently, and can say that in Ubers, Primal Groudon is the best Pokemon in the format, due to being able to do almost anything, (except revenge kill, and even then it can do that on opposing, slower, teams) and beat a large portion of the game as a whole. It's one weakness is mostly physical and it has a huge defense stat. Just look at it's satisfied customers (pulls up like 88% of all Ubers teams ever because it's usage is that insane). In fact, any meta it's in, an otherwise very viable Pokemon loses all viability due to this thing's mere existence. Case in point, Kyogre.
However, Primal Groudon isn't typically a Pokemon you build around, as you would a God - It's a typically supportive swiss army knife Pokemon that has offense options on offense teams. Sure, a few spreads are offensive threats, and some of it's defensive spreads can catch teams off guard, but they're not really good enough to justify building around like Xerneas or Mega Salamence, and it's true you can build around it as part of a core, but you typically build around your one God. It's a pokemon you slap on to support your team's primary goal, it's not your team's primary goal.

The fact it's limited to Ground is also somewhat restrictive. Sure, it's got great Pokemon like Landorus and Garchomp, and it has Sand Sweeper Excadrill potential, but the other grounds are typically slow, limiting it to bulkier teams (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it just limits it's options considerably, making it predictable). Also note that Primal Groudon is pretty much Landorus-T++ with some Garchomp thrown in for fun so those two are somewhat redundant on a PDon team. It doesn't get access to the fires like Mega Charizard, Talonflame, Heatran, etc. What really harms it's viability, though, is it's complete lack of recovery and no trait good enough to eclipse this. Once it takes damage, that damage stays. Sure, it can check GeoXern, but there are definitely some non-God checks to it in the metagame, and using your God to check a threat isn't really the best use of a God. This is the biggest problem for a God - A God that dies easily is just not that great. There's no doubt that, with a good team around it, it can be successful, but that can be said of all Gods, even with the Deo forms, who actually suffer similar problems of being support Pokemon, or Pokemon that faint easily. And before you say Xerneas has no real sustain either, Xerneas' positives more than outweigh the positives. Another thing is it's team members generally become death fodder due to the lack of good supportive ground types.

Overall, there's no denying Primal Groudon is great in general, but in GaF, it's just not as good as it is in other formats and probably has more negatives than positives.

4★ -> 5★ -

Xerneas

I absolutely agree. While it lacks sustain, the sheer sweeping potential it has and how metagame defining it is cannot be ignored. Geomancy with Power Herb is, well - I'm sure most of you know the story. After Geomancy, if you have no checks, it's GG. You should really just click the X button at that point. The sheer power of this thing's Moonblast, even unboosted, is nuts. It has great coverage options, like Focus Blast to maul steels, Thunder to deal with Kyogre, and Psychic to hit grass/poisons. Flying's best answers are Skarmory and Thundurus, PDon teams rely on their God to beat this thing - Xerneas defines the format to a degree. However, Xerneas does have shortcomings. It can only realistically set up once - If it's phazed out, or forced out (which is more likely in this format), it's really just become a Fairy type Yveltal with a bit more offensive kick and no sustain.

It's team options, while not amazingly diverse, is definitely better than what some types have (*cough cough* poison *cough cough*), and it certainly has enough potential teammates to get the job done. Klefki Spikes stacks and sets up screens, easing the setup process significantly, Mega Diancie hazard bounces, Slurpuff, while gimmicky can be a gateway sweeper who paves the way for GeoXern, or clean up after Xerneas, and Clefable, as any OU player knows, is one of the most diverse fairies around, beaten only by Xerneas itself. Speaking of diversity, Xerneas is the most diverse fairy in the game - It doesn't need to run Geomancy. It has all around excellent stats, with amazing bulk, great offenses, and an OK speed tier for an Uber. Typically though, you'll see GeoXern, because that thing's sheer power after Geomancy is absurd. Mega Gardevoir and Azu both hit like trucks, and also support Xerneas very well, if you would, due to their ability to soften Xern's checks. Whimsicott is an option I've seen mentioned, likely due to Prankster Memento, enabling GeoXern to come in and set up for free next turn (finally, it gets some recognition :D).

Also remember that even it's checks are shaky due to GeoXern's boosted power - They pretty much need to be pristine to beat Xerneas. Overall, Xerneas and it's teams are metagame defining, and to not put it in ★★★★★ would be a huge dishonour to how great this thing is. If any God at all should be banned, it should be this thing (or MRay but that thing is already banned).

EDIT: Geomancy has been banned, and GeoXern is now no longer legal. It probably doesn't deserve 5★ anymore

4★ -> 5★ -

Yveltal

While it's a bit less secure than others, I can definitely agree with it being 5★. It's amazingly diverse on it's own, and, unlike Arceus, who is more diverse, has a lot of solid team options (unless you're an Arceus form who has great partners like Flying). Having the strongest priority in the game is a huge boon for it, as is being perhaps the best Dark type in the game. It's amazingly bulky, it's speed is decent for an Uber, basically, just put what I said about Xerneas' base stats here because they have exactly the same base stats. Unlike Xerneas, it doesn't have a huge move that lets it sweep - As such, it needs to perform more off it's stats and movepool than it's deer counterpart. It has several options for sustain - Roost on it's own is excellent, as it gives a God excellent sustain, which is really good for a God, but Oblivion Wing is perhaps the best draining move in the game - 75% recovery is huge for a move like Oblivion Wing, as it lets it deal respectable damage (131 special attack is nothing to scoff at, despite being low by God standards) and recover. Oblivion Wing is also one of the few special flying moves in the game that doesn't stink like a pair of year old unwashed socks. Dark Pulse is great coming off Life Orb Dark Aura, or just Dark Aura in general, and Foul Play massively punishes attempts at sweeping physically, which is great in a meta with Mega Salamence among other things. As a result, it can enter the battle itself with little worry, which is huge for a God.

It's team options are also solid, getting access to the aforementioned flying type partners - Perhaps the one of the most diverse and best typings in the game, going off Pokemon in that group. Lando-T, Skarmory (remember, it checks GeoXern), the infamous breaker Hoopa Unbound, who, in terms of raw stats, is a second God, Bisharp, to stop Intimidate spam and deter Defog, and Mega Sableye. Oh, Mega Sableye. In a parallel universe where the OU suspect went another way, that thing is a God on it's own. On balance teams, like the kind of team Yveltal will be on typically, it's amazing. It also keeps hazards off, which is nice considering Yveltal is Rocks weak.

Why am I shaky about it? Xerneas hurts it. However, it does have Skarmory and Thundurus, so that's mitigated. It's unfortunately slow for a flying type, despite being one of the less slow Gods, leaving it susceptible to faster electric and rock types that can beat it through it's bulk, although speed issues are somewhat mitigated by Sucker Punch. Overall, it's positives outweigh the negatives and I think it should rise.

4★ -> 5★ -

Dialga

I don't really agree. While it's typing is solid defensively, offensively, it leaves a lot to be desired. True, it can drop very hard hitting Dracos, but Dialga is a bit too slow to be anything other than a tank, and as a Draco spammer, I feel there are better, more reliable draco spammers that don't necessitate being a God, or, if they do, have other options or more desirable qualities and traits (Rayquaza for example, who can run mixed much easier AND has a Dragon Dance set that hits harder than MegaMence after LO with Dragon Ascent, Palkia, who is faster, Giratina-O (ok, it's not really a Draco spammer, but it's not unheard of to have Draco) who to say is bulky is an understatement, and Kyurem-W, who has one of the strongest Dracos in the game).

Steel has some nice options, and this leads to it being one of the least Xerneas weak Gods available outside of Aegislash teams, and Dragon is nice, but ground is common as a coverage move. Dragon also has nice options to pile on the Draco Meteor pressure on all apart from Fairy teams. A nice boon is being perhaps the best Offensive Trick Room Pokemon in the game, coming with solid coverage, but it typically has to set up Trick Room itself, which is risky as a God without sustain outside of Leftovers or Sitrus Berry. If it weren't for this, it'd be amazing, as Steel is one of the slowest types around, except for Mega Metagross and Mega Lucario (who is a God). It's a good Pokemon, with amazing bulk, but it hasn't got sustain, which is extremely problematic for a God, as it means it's very easily worn down by rocks. It's got solid team options, though, like Excadrill (although it can't easily have sand), Mega Scizor (who is amazing on it's own), Mega Metagross (basically a more defensive MegaMence without sustain and more coverage), Heatran, Bisharp, Klefki, Skarmory (again, who checks GeoXern), and Ferrothorn, as well as dragons like Latio/as, Hydreigon, and Garchomp. Overall, while it's going to put a dent in any unprepared team thanks to stellar (but average among Gods) offenses, it's really not near perfect like a 5★ should ideally be. I will say though, because of the lack of PDon viability, it's a lot more viable now.

3★ -> 5★ -

Kyogre

For a while, i hadn't fought many of these, and so you'd only get my take on the above. However, a match I had on the main PS! server recently showed me just how terrifying it is, even in team preview (Match is here - Yeah I know I'm not the best and my team isn't the most structured, but the team covers for itself very well despite being mostly goodstuff). Kyogre itself was the king of Gen 3, 4 and 5 Ubers for a damn good reason. It's ability to run specs OR scarf makes it so that you find it difficult to prepare for, and Water spout - Or even just Hydro Pump - hits like a truck. But that's not what's truly terrifying. The water 'mons it supports can carry Swift Swim are. In that battle, my heart skipped a beat realising I was going against the nuke that is Omastar in rain. What was more terrifying was that it set up Shell Smash in the rain. I don't think I've been that scared in a Pokemon battle for a while lol. Thank goodness for the flying lord that is Skarmory. The fact PDon isn't that viable really boosts it's viability exponentially. Mega Swampert is perhaps one of the best rain sweepers in the game, with an amazing 150 attack, boosted and powerful STAB, great coverage, and amazing speed (in rain) and bulk. And the fact all it's teammates get the rain boost for their STAB? That's scary. And you know Keldeo? Even in OU that thing's a pain in the rear to switch in without being scald burned, nuked by Hydro Pump, or hit by SS or it's coverage. In rain, though? Oh, you're gonna have a REAL bad time. Kyogre is like Super Mega Politoed Ultra Extreme Edition 10.0 EX BREAK. Drizzle is basically a free 1.5x boost for it's very powerful STAB, making Fairy Aura seem pathetic in comparison. While it doesn't have sustain, it's damage output and support for it's type is more than enough to outweigh this little smudge on Kyogre's record.

However, it (Edit: OFTEN Kyogre autoloses, but not always - Specs Ice Beam is a 2HKO, so if it's caught on the switch, it CAN beat PDon. It can't, however, beat the variant of PDon used to check Xerneas among other things: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Primal Groudon: 159-188 (39.3 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO, and PDon can't switch in more than once.) usually loses to Primal Groudon, rare though it may be. It doesn't matter what set you run on Kyogre, if PDon exists, it counters it. Water doesn't have many answers to GeoXern, although it CAN stomach any hit not named Thunder once, if it's pristine and running max HP (+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 339-400 (83.9 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO).

Overall, the support it gives and it's sheer power is enough to make it an absolute monster. I say definitely put it in 5★. It's scary good without PDon and the team support it gives is amazing, and is the main reason I think it should be 5★ as opposed to sheer power like Xerneas, Mega Salamence, etc. With Kyogre, it's not the only one that dents. In fact, half the time, Kyogre's going to be the least of your problems.

I also want to say I personally think god banning should be minimal. Xerneas does have answers, albeit very few, but if it meets suspect worthy criteria (I'm not sure if this meta follows Ubers' "only ban things if it's absolutely borked" mentality or OU's "if it causes unfavourable things to be viable just to beat it, or is just unhealthy, ban it" mentality), I'd definitely vote ban. I feel this is a pretty fun and original metagame, and I definitely plan on experimenting with the potential Gods (although I'll stick with 'mence for a while).

 

[yoman5]

Hey, I don't post often (as you can tell, I don't even have 10 posts), but this metagame is very interesting and an awesome and original concept. I'm fairly confident I have the general grasp of what makes a good God - It should be strong, ideally have recovery, or, if it doesn't, have enough positives to shadow this fact, and perhaps the most important factor IMO is that it should have a typing that has Pokemon in it capable of supporting it well. The God could easily be one of the best Pokemon around, but if it's type means it's team mates can't support it, that's going to kill it's viability (eg. a Poison god with flat 150s isn't going to be amazingly OP (it may still be on it's own) - I will be basing my ranking discussion off of these factors. Sorry for the long posts - I like to be as thorough as possible. I have formatted these reasonably well, so it won't be walls of text. I may also miss something, and constructive criticism would be appreciated. I'm relatively new to the Smogon forums (despite having lurked for a while), so if I'm doing something wrong, I'd like to know. Criticism is the first step to improvement after all :).

The ones I'll talk about (not necessarily in order):


For these, I will generally follow the format - God itself (typically including sustain and notable traits), then teammates - with a summary of it's weaknesses, like, how Xerneas weak it is - and last words.

4★ -> 5★ -

Mega Salamence

I absolutely agree with Mega Salamence. Oh, I could gush about MegaMence alone all day... Mega Salamence on it's own is amazing - Bulky, very fast, and hard hitting. A Bulky god is amazing, as it makes it difficult to beat while doing damage. Oh, and don't think it can just run offensive. Even without defensive spreads, it's physical bulk is on par with Skamory (with Intimidate taken into account), and can run bulkier dragon dance sets as a result. Heck, if you want, you can run relatively gimmicky Toxic stall. On top of that, it can run Dragon Dance very effectively, and has access to Roost, massively increasing longevity with it's bulk considered, and Refresh, enabling it to break past things like Scald burns. It's able to run Return on bulkier spreads that want to survive, and Double-Edge on more offensive spreads, despite being a bit riskier, considering that it IS your God. The recoil can be mitigated by the aforementioned Roost, however. It can also run mixed or pure special sets, with nice special coverage like Aerilate Hyper Voice, Fire Blast, Hydro Pump, and a moderately hard hitting Draco Meteor. It's special coverage is a bit underwhelming and doesn't have the sheer oomph of a boosted Return. If you let it set up more than 1 DDance, unless you have a Skarmory that's very healthy, just forfeit. It's OVER.

And team options? Team options are really the icing on the cake. Dragon and Flying contain some of the most solid Pokemon in the game, with Pokemon like Landorus, Tornadus, Thundurus, Skarmory (the previous two can actually halt a GeoXern sweep), Talonflame, and more on just the flying. Dragon contains some gems, like Garchomp and Latio/as, who is an excellent offensive defogger. Dragon Flying also has other great defoggers, like Zapdos,

Team wise, though, it's got a large weakness to Xerneas (which is a given considering that thing has few answers at all) Ice Teams. However, there aren't many ice teams running around, except maybe Kyurem teams from time to time. It's bad enough MegaMence has it on it's own, without it's best teammates just compounding on this weakness, making Pokemon like Weavile difficult to play around. It's teams do, however, have ways to beat ice (Talonflame ftw) and fairy teams, so it's far from helpless.

Unfortunately, it has a bit of opportunity cost, being a mega God, meaning you can't run dragon or flying support/sweeper megas, but MegaMence on it's own is already good enough to eclipse many other options. However, it's easily one of, if not, the best God in the format for sheer consistency, power, and team options, and it's positives far outweigh the negatives, to the point where it's

4★ -> 3★ -

Primal Groudon

On Primal Groudon's drop, I agree. I play Ubers pretty frequently, and can say that in Ubers, Primal Groudon is the best Pokemon in the format, due to being able to do almost anything, (except revenge kill, and even then it can do that on opposing, slower, teams) and beat a large portion of the game as a whole. It's one weakness is mostly physical and it has a huge defense stat. Just look at it's satisfied customers (pulls up like 88% of all Ubers teams ever because it's usage is that insane). In fact, any meta it's in, an otherwise very viable Pokemon loses all viability due to this thing's mere existence. Case in point, Kyogre.
However, Primal Groudon isn't typically a Pokemon you build around, as you would a God - It's a typically supportive swiss army knife Pokemon that has offense options on offense teams. Sure, a few spreads are offensive threats, and some of it's defensive spreads can catch teams off guard, but they're not really good enough to justify building around like Xerneas or Mega Salamence, and it's true you can build around it as part of a core, but you typically build around your one God. It's a pokemon you slap on to support your team's primary goal, it's not your team's primary goal.

The fact it's limited to Ground is also somewhat restrictive. Sure, it's got great Pokemon like Landorus and Garchomp, and it has Sand Sweeper Excadrill potential, but the other grounds are typically slow, limiting it to bulkier teams (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it just limits it's options considerably, making it predictable). Also note that Primal Groudon is pretty much Landorus-T++ with some Garchomp thrown in for fun so those two are somewhat redundant on a PDon team. It doesn't get access to the fires like Mega Charizard, Talonflame, Heatran, etc. What really harms it's viability, though, is it's complete lack of recovery and no trait good enough to eclipse this. Once it takes damage, that damage stays. Sure, it can check GeoXern, but there are definitely some non-God checks to it in the metagame, and using your God to check a threat isn't really the best use of a God. This is the biggest problem for a God - A God that dies easily is just not that great. There's no doubt that, with a good team around it, it can be successful, but that can be said of all Gods, even with the Deo forms, who actually suffer similar problems of being support Pokemon, or Pokemon that faint easily. And before you say Xerneas has no real sustain either, Xerneas' positives more than outweigh the positives. Another thing is it's team members generally become death fodder due to the lack of good supportive ground types.

Overall, there's no denying Primal Groudon is great in general, but in GaF, it's just not as good as it is in other formats and probably has more negatives than positives.

4★ -> 5★ -

Xerneas

I absolutely agree. While it lacks sustain, the sheer sweeping potential it has and how metagame defining it is cannot be ignored. Geomancy with Power Herb is, well - I'm sure most of you know the story. After Geomancy, if you have no checks, it's GG. You should really just click the X button at that point. The sheer power of this thing's Moonblast, even unboosted, is nuts. It has great coverage options, like Focus Blast to maul steels, Thunder to deal with Kyogre, and Psychic to hit grass/poisons. Flying's best answers are Skarmory and Thundurus, PDon teams rely on their God to beat this thing - Xerneas defines the format to a degree. However, Xerneas does have shortcomings. It can only realistically set up once - If it's phazed out, or forced out (which is more likely in this format), it's really just become a Fairy type Yveltal with a bit more offensive kick and no sustain.

It's team options, while not amazingly diverse, is definitely better than what some types have (*cough cough* poison *cough cough*), and it certainly has enough potential teammates to get the job done. Klefki Spikes stacks and sets up screens, easing the setup process significantly, Mega Diancie hazard bounces, Slurpuff, while gimmicky can be a gateway sweeper who paves the way for GeoXern, or clean up after Xerneas, and Clefable, as any OU player knows, is one of the most diverse fairies around, beaten only by Xerneas itself. Speaking of diversity, Xerneas is the most diverse fairy in the game - It doesn't need to run Geomancy. It has all around excellent stats, with amazing bulk, great offenses, and an OK speed tier for an Uber. Typically though, you'll see GeoXern, because that thing's sheer power after Geomancy is absurd. Mega Gardevoir and Azu both hit like trucks, and also support Xerneas very well, if you would, due to their ability to soften Xern's checks. Whimsicott is an option I've seen mentioned, likely due to Prankster Memento, enabling GeoXern to come in and set up for free next turn (finally, it gets some recognition :D).

Also remember that even it's checks are shaky due to GeoXern's boosted power - They pretty much need to be pristine to beat Xerneas. Overall, Xerneas and it's teams are metagame defining, and to not put it in ★★★★★ would be a huge dishonour to how great this thing is. If any God at all should be banned, it should be this thing (or MRay but that thing is already banned).

4★ -> 5★ -

Yveltal

While it's a bit less secure than others, I can definitely agree with it being 5★. It's amazingly diverse on it's own, and, unlike Arceus, who is more diverse, has a lot of solid team options (unless you're an Arceus form who has great partners like Flying). Having the strongest priority in the game is a huge boon for it, as is being perhaps the best Dark type in the game. It's amazingly bulky, it's speed is decent for an Uber, basically, just put what I said about Xerneas' base stats here because they have exactly the same base stats. Unlike Xerneas, it doesn't have a huge move that lets it sweep - As such, it needs to perform more off it's stats and movepool than it's deer counterpart. It has several options for sustain - Roost on it's own is excellent, as it gives a God excellent sustain, which is really good for a God, but Oblivion Wing is perhaps the best draining move in the game - 75% recovery is huge for a move like Oblivion Wing, as it lets it deal respectable damage (131 special attack is nothing to scoff at, despite being low by God standards) and recover. Oblivion Wing is also one of the few special flying moves in the game that doesn't stink like a pair of year old unwashed socks. Dark Pulse is great coming off Life Orb Dark Aura, or just Dark Aura in general, and Foul Play massively punishes attempts at sweeping physically, which is great in a meta with Mega Salamence among other things. As a result, it can enter the battle itself with little worry, which is huge for a God.

It's team options are also solid, getting access to the aforementioned flying type partners - Perhaps the one of the most diverse and best typings in the game, going off Pokemon in that group. Lando-T, Skarmory (remember, it checks GeoXern), the infamous breaker Hoopa Unbound, who, in terms of raw stats, is a second God, Bisharp, to stop Intimidate spam and deter Defog, and Mega Sableye. Oh, Mega Sableye. In a parallel universe where the OU suspect went another way, that thing is a God on it's own. On balance teams, like the kind of team Yveltal will be on typically, it's amazing. It also keeps hazards off, which is nice considering Yveltal is Rocks weak.

Why am I shaky about it? Xerneas hurts it. However, it does have Skarmory and Thundurus, so that's mitigated. It's unfortunately slow for a flying type, despite being one of the less slow Gods, leaving it susceptible to faster electric and rock types that can beat it through it's bulk, although speed issues are somewhat mitigated by Sucker Punch. Overall, it's positives outweigh the negatives and I think it should rise.

4★ -> 5★ -

Dialga

I don't really agree. While it's typing is solid defensively, offensively, it leaves a lot to be desired. True, it can drop very hard hitting Dracos, but Dialga is a bit too slow to be anything other than a tank, and as a Draco spammer, I feel there are better, more reliable draco spammers that don't necessitate being a God, or, if they do, have other options or more desirable qualities and traits (Rayquaza for example, who can run mixed much easier AND has a Dragon Dance set that hits harder than MegaMence after LO with Dragon Ascent, Palkia, who is faster, Giratina-O (ok, it's not really a Draco spammer, but it's not unheard of to have Draco) who to say is bulky is an understatement, and Kyurem-W, who has one of the strongest Dracos in the game).

Steel has some nice options, and this leads to it being one of the least Xerneas weak Gods available outside of Aegislash teams, and Dragon is nice, but ground is common as a coverage move. Dragon also has nice options to pile on the Draco Meteor pressure on all apart from Fairy teams. A nice boon is being perhaps the best Offensive Trick Room Pokemon in the game, coming with solid coverage, but it typically has to set up Trick Room itself, which is risky as a God without sustain outside of Leftovers or Sitrus Berry. If it weren't for this, it'd be amazing, as Steel is one of the slowest types around, except for Mega Metagross and Mega Lucario (who is a God). It's a good Pokemon, with amazing bulk, but it hasn't got sustain, which is extremely problematic for a God, as it means it's very easily worn down by rocks. It's got solid team options, though, like Excadrill (although it can't easily have sand), Mega Scizor (who is amazing on it's own), Mega Metagross (basically a more defensive MegaMence without sustain and more coverage), Heatran, Bisharp, Klefki, Skarmory (again, who checks GeoXern), and Ferrothorn, as well as dragons like Latio/as, Hydreigon, and Garchomp. Overall, while it's going to put a dent in any unprepared team thanks to stellar (but average among Gods) offenses, it's really not near perfect like a 5★ should ideally be. I will say though, because of the lack of PDon viability, it's a lot more viable now.

3★ -> 5★ -

Kyogre

For a while, i hadn't fought many of these, and so you'd only get my take on the above. However, a match I had on the main PS! server recently showed me just how terrifying it is, even in team preview (Match is here - Yeah I know I'm not the best and my team isn't the most structured, but the team covers for itself very well despite being mostly goodstuff). Kyogre itself was the king of Gen 3, 4 and 5 Ubers for a damn good reason. It's ability to run specs OR scarf makes it so that you find it difficult to prepare for, and Water spout - Or even just Hydro Pump - hits like a truck. But that's not what's truly terrifying. The water 'mons it supports can carry Swift Swim are. In that battle, my heart skipped a beat realising I was going against the nuke that is Omastar in rain. What was more terrifying was that it set up Shell Smash in the rain. I don't think I've been that scared in a Pokemon battle for a while lol. Thank goodness for the flying lord that is Skarmory. The fact PDon isn't that viable really boosts it's viability exponentially. Mega Swampert is perhaps one of the best rain sweepers in the game, with an amazing 150 attack, boosted and powerful STAB, great coverage, and amazing speed (in rain) and bulk. And the fact all it's teammates get the rain boost for their STAB? That's scary. And you know Keldeo? Even in OU that thing's a pain in the rear to switch in without being scald burned, nuked by Hydro Pump, or hit by SS or it's coverage. In rain, though? Oh, you're gonna have a REAL bad time. Kyogre is like Super Mega Politoed Ultra Extreme Edition 10.0 EX BREAK. Drizzle is basically a free 1.5x boost for it's very powerful STAB, making Fairy Aura seem pathetic in comparison. While it doesn't have sustain, it's damage output and support for it's type is more than enough to outweigh this little smudge on Kyogre's record.

However, it autoloses to Primal Groudon, rare though it may be. It doesn't matter what set you run on Kyogre, if PDon exists, it counters it. Water doesn't have many answers to GeoXern, although it CAN stomach any hit not named Thunder once, if it's pristine and running max HP (+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 339-400 (83.9 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO).

Overall, the support it gives and it's sheer power is enough to make it an absolute monster. I say definitely put it in 5★. It's scary good without PDon and the team support it gives is amazing, and is the main reason I think it should be 5★ as opposed to sheer power like Xerneas, Mega Salamence, etc. With Kyogre, it's not the only one that dents. In fact, half the time, Kyogre's going to be the least of your problems.

I also want to say I personally think god banning should be minimal. Xerneas does have answers, albeit very few, but if it meets suspect worthy criteria (I'm not sure if this meta follows Ubers' "only ban things if it's absolutely borked" mentality or OU's "if it causes unfavourable things to be viable just to beat it, or is just unhealthy, ban it" mentality), I'd definitely vote ban. I feel this is a pretty fun and original metagame, and I definitely plan on experimenting with the potential Gods (although I'll stick with 'mence for a while).

I'm really tired of people saying pdon is an autolose. Specs ice beam can quickly make pdon unable to switch in. Not only that but all of dons teammates must have ground typing, so kyogres entire team has a type advantage. I really wish people would stop saying things like this. As someone who ran non primal ogre on ubers in tournaments to great effect, I can tell you pdon does not stop ogre by itself. It at most causes mind games and double switches on both sides. In this format ogre also has a team type advantage because its a monotype face off with a type advantage for ogre. (Also ogre doesn't deserve 5 star rank but I've already made my arguments for this)

 

[Iura]

People keep telling me they see mega Ray and so is it really there...? Shouldn't it be a Mega Ray rating then and an AG Banlist...?
Or are they just idiots?

 

[Jajoken]

People keep telling me they see mega Ray and so is it really there...? Shouldn't it be a Mega Ray rating then and an AG Banlist...?
Or are they just idiots?

It should be banned. Yesterday (I think) I tried a Mega Rayquaza team and the mega evolution button was not present. If anyone is still seeing Mega Rayquaza on the ladder, post a recent replay -- it's likely a bug in the code.

 

[Manchamp]

I'm really tired of people saying pdon is an autolose. Specs ice beam can quickly make pdon unable to switch in. Not only that but all of dons teammates must have ground typing, so kyogres entire team has a type advantage. I really wish people would stop saying things like this. As someone who ran non primal ogre on ubers in tournaments to great effect, I can tell you pdon does not stop ogre by itself. It at most causes mind games and double switches on both sides. In this format ogre also has a team type advantage because its a monotype face off with a type advantage for ogre. (Also ogre doesn't deserve 5 star rank but I've already made my arguments for this)

I think it's just that if you are using Kyogre and it isn't Primal, it's gonna be choiced. Water STAB is often the best move against PDon followers (Mamo, MegaPert, Gastrodon, MegaCamel, etc resist or are neutral to ice with decent SpD) and the fact that Intense Sun prevents any water moves is a huge advantage. Granted, the list of ice neutral ground mons is short and aren't very popular choices, but still any ground type with decent bulk can survive an Ice beam but gets blown apart by a Rain boosted Water Spout/ Origin Pulse (SE IceBeam = 180BP, SE STAB Rain Water Spout = 775BP). I'm not arguing that PDon teams can always handle a specs Ogre, but I am saying that there would be no switchins (storm drain, fine) to Ogre if PDon didn't negate any water moves with his ability, which makes him an incredible bulwark to Kyogre's rampage.

On that note, however, I don't think Kyogre should be a five star god because his mono-water squad cannot handle most other teams in this meta, as previously said by me and yoman

 

[yoman5]

I think it's just that if you are using Kyogre and it isn't Primal, it's gonna be choiced. Water STAB is often the best move against PDon followers (Mamo, MegaPert, Gastrodon, MegaCamel, etc resist or are neutral to ice with decent SpD) and the fact that Intense Sun prevents any water moves is a huge advantage. Granted, the list of ice neutral ground mons is short and aren't very popular choices, but still any ground type with decent bulk can survive an Ice beam but gets blown apart by a Rain boosted Water Spout/ Origin Pulse (SE IceBeam = 180BP, SE STAB Rain Water Spout = 775BP). I'm not arguing that PDon teams can always handle a specs Ogre, but I am saying that there would be no switchins (storm drain, fine) to Ogre if PDon didn't negate any water moves with his ability, which makes him an incredible bulwark to Kyogre's rampage.

On that note, however, I don't think Kyogre should be a five star god because his mono-water squad cannot handle most other teams in this meta, as previously said by me and yoman

I agree, just tired of the "autolose" mentality. Pdon just stops the mono ground team from autolosing, if anything (bar gastrodon).

 

[Jajoken]

Scarf
252+ SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 131-155 (38.4 - 45.4%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Primal Groudon: 93-110 (23 - 27.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock

Specs
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 179-211 (52.4 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Primal Groudon: 126-149 (31.1 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Not world-breaking damage but it's worth noting 2 things:
1) Groudon is probably the best thing to take an Ice type move on mono-Ground aside from Water/Ground types, which also take a decent amount and are removed with Grass coverage which every mono-Water team should have. This means that clicking Ice beam against a Primal Groudon team is usually a no-lose scenario for a Kyogre, unless it's in against something that can kill it but Ice beam can't, in which case you should probably just switch.
2) I'll repost this chart from page 2:

Utility Moves per Type

Ground types have absolutely no cleric moves. This means that, barring Resttalk, Groudon can only switch in a number of times.

I agree with yoman: the matchup is arguably in Kyogre's favor. The reason it "auto-loses" to Primal Groudon in Ubers is because all teams should have an Ice resist anyway, so if it uses an Ice type move on the switch, it's probably locked into it and you can just switch out freely. Here, the same thing happens, but you cannot possibly have any Ice resists, so the Kyogre team will always be on the offensive and Groudon will be pressured by it.

This isn't to say Kyogre doesn't have bad matchups, but this isn't one of them.

 

[Gerard]

Not to start any fights cause I also believe P-Groudon's ability to completely shutdown Kyogre is overrated but Ground does have an Ice resist in Thick Fat Mamoswine.

 

[Niadev]

I'm really tired of people saying pdon is an autolose. Specs ice beam can quickly make pdon unable to switch in. Not only that but all of dons teammates must have ground typing, so kyogres entire team has a type advantage. I really wish people would stop saying things like this. As someone who ran non primal ogre on ubers in tournaments to great effect, I can tell you pdon does not stop ogre by itself. It at most causes mind games and double switches on both sides. In this format ogre also has a team type advantage because its a monotype face off with a type advantage for ogre. (Also ogre doesn't deserve 5 star rank but I've already made my arguments for this)

Oh, I fixed that. I forgot how much Specs Kyogre does. Although, I will say that the variant of Primal Groudon (Primal Support) used to beat Xerneas somewhat reliably can stomach Ice Beam: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Primal Groudon: 159-188 (39.3 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO