SPOILERS! General Pokémon Anime Discussion

[precita]

I don't know what's going on in this thread, but Misty's personality resembles a lot of 90's era anime characters when the tomboy trope was very popular. She's similar to Asuka, Bulma from Dragonball, etc. If you look back at 80's and 90's popular female leads, they were always the short-tempered angry ones that argued with everyone. They were also usually red-heads.

In the 2000's you saw a trend where more girly or soft-spoken girls became more popular in Japan. This is evident with anime going on over there like Idolmaster, Love Live, and similar to it. Its also why Contests became a thing in both the games and anime. GameFreak flat out said Contests were introduced in the games to be aimed at female fans. The anime writers then took that concept and improved upon it in the anime by adding battling and rival dynamics.

Prior to Serena, we had Dawn who was basically written like a magical girl. She wasn't there to be Ash's waifu, but a sister-like companion who was very girly and specialized in Contests. In many ways Serena is very similar to Dawn, only different is Serena idolizes Ash and she isn't into battling and is more demure and submissive.

May was pretty much a bridge between Misty and all the girls who came after her. She became more popular than Misty as AG was airing, the Contests became a popular addition to the show, and she's nowadays popular simply because she's the most watched/viewed female lead after Misty, simply because she was introduced 13 years ago back in 2002. AG had the second highest ratings in both Japan and the west simply because it aired in the early 2000's when most of the original fanbase was still watching. Her contest story with Drew/Harley is also incredibly popular among female shippers.

I'm fine with Serena and her ship with Ash, but the anime overall is not as popular as it was a decade ago and thus far less people watch Serena. If Serena was introduced 10 years ago and was written the same way she is now, I wonder if her character would have been received completely differently. If she came directly after Misty for example, Serena probably would have been received the way Tracey was for being too soft-spoken, too girly, and not doing any battling. In many ways I feel like May really was the perfect Misty replacement, because I have a hard trouble seeing any other girl directly replace Misty the way May did and become as popular as she was.

 

[Ming-Ming]

I kinda feel bad for Serena by the end of the day, considering she had no real personality early on in XY, and end up being very similar to Dawn in the case of her doing her own version of Pokemon Contests, and being rather feminine in her personality.

I suppose she's also rather shy, and she is getting more sure of herself over time? But then every other one of Ash's female companions had their personality and goal laid out from day one, so Serena having a slow start, and ending up being similar to someone else? Kinda bites.

At least with Iris, you could chalk it up to BW intentionally trying to make nods to Kanto. (Also Iris is a pretty rad girl, in an anime arc that was simply screwed over)

 

[precita]

A lot of Serena's personality traits are largely copied or very similar to parts of May and Dawn's personality. She's only a lot more submissive, shy, soft-spoken, and not into battling.

Serena's girliness, love for fashion, cooking, liking cute pokemon and cute things...are all exactly the same things Dawn used to do and was interested in. Difference of course is Dawn battled and was more of an action heroine while Serena is more of a willing waifu type character.

Serena's story is also very similar to May's, in that she didn't know what she wanted to do and largely just started traveling with Ash for the hell of it until she found a goal. Its also similar because Serena has a fire starter in its middle stage, takes care of a little kid on the group, largely looks up to Ash, etc.

The funny thing is I never realized how much more dynamic all the other girls were until Serena was introduced. All of them, including May and Dawn, argued/bickered with Ash, always stated their mind of what was going on, were all interested in battling, etc. Serena really is the first shy, soft-spoken, extremely girly character on the group. The fact that the writers gave her a goal with no battling and have her with only 3 pokemon over 100+ episodes into a series makes it look like they want her to be damsel in distress type character or a submissive waifu to Ash. None of the other girls came across this way.

 

[Ming-Ming]

And hopefully Serena's personality isn't used over in 7th Gen, since I do enjoy seeing the group dynamic change over every season. Even when Iris references Misty, and Serena has shades of May and Dawn, they both do things different from their predecessors. We also have Cilan and Clemont to consider, who both are different from Brock in their own ways, and their gags even make nods to him (Girls adore Cilan, while Bonnie wants girls to fall for Clemont)

 

[precita]

There are only so many personality's a female character can have in a show like pokemon for it to work. I mean the other type of personalities are used in the female rivals like Ursula, Zoey, Georgia, Shauna, etc...but those wouldn't really work for a main character we have to see in every episode.

A decade ago nobody could have predicted Ash would have 5 female companions. As I probably mentioned once before in this thread, I still remember when May was considered the "new pokemon girl," and now May is over 13 years old and we've had 3 more female companions after her. Others also thought Dawn would be the last girl if the anime ended with DP because of her co-star status, etc. Not to mention the people who sat there for over a decade thinking Misty would return and of course she never did.

I think the writers have pretty much exhausted the things for a female character to do in the series. That's why Iris and Serena have traits re-used from the previous girls, even though they're also a bit different.

I don't even want to think what it would be like if the anime goes on for yet another decade, and Ash is on his 8th female companion in Gen 9 or something. lol.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Hmm, well maybe they could have the girl be the brainy one of the group for once.

 

[Ming-Ming]

As Pikachu315111 said, there isn't a hard limit of how many personality types you could use. I mean, humans themselves are complex as all get out. So even if the writers started simple with "We should have a brainy chick!", it could potentially work, especially if they bring it back to how Pokemon are Super Cool and inspires children to become stronger and more confident in themselves.

May went from literally knowing nothing about Pokemon, or even caring about them, to even being extremely confident in her contest abilities. Dawn has a big heart for her teammates, and very much emphasizes femininity back in the 00's. You could even look at the games' GLs, and while they may not have a lot of depth, they generally are unique compared to one another. So even if the writers put a tiny bit of effort, the new female PC would hopefully be someone different from her predescors. Especially if you consider the anime's success today (Or at least, the Internet leads me to believe XY is doing more favorably than BW has)

 

[precita]

There's a lot of personalities to use, but in terms of a main character in the role females have in this series, the writers are limited. I can only see a brainy female lead if she has a Brock-type role and is an older female who is there to analyze stuff like a professor or something. But the female lead in the series is always around Ash's age so I don't see that happening.

 

[Ming-Ming]

There's a lot of personalities to use, but in terms of a main character in the role females have in this series, the writers are limited. I can only see a brainy female lead if she has a Brock-type role and is an older female who is there to analyze stuff like a professor or something. But the female lead in the series is always around Ash's age so I don't see that happening.

The nerdy girl could be someone who's studied Pokemon ever since she got into school, but she has no actual field experience. And due to that, her experiences with Pokemon would be her transition from trying to stick to whatever the dex says about them, to trusting her own gut feelings on what to do with these murderbeasts.

I thought that up in a couple of seconds, so... Honestly? It's not _that_ hard to make protagonists for the anime, since any simple idea can transition into a bigger one. It all really depends on how much effort the writers want to pull for the anime, and I feel the effort isn't too much.

 

[Norne]

Hmm, well maybe they could have the girl be the brainy one of the group for once.

Sadly those kind of thing dont sell in japan due to them being not considered cute or comercial. You gotta be an extreme kudere for that to BARELY work.

Lets be honest outside of web novels or web comics you wont find a breakout support girl with a working brain in the target demographic of pokemon, at least we have Mairin working as the comon sense and the heart for the mega evo specials despite not being the ace.

Other scenarios proposed sound mostly like a fanfiction as no franchise would risk losing viewers by putting a smart but unexperienced girl role model on the focus, at least not after the 90s.

 

[Cresselia~~]

Sadly those kind of thing dont sell in japan due to them being not considered cute or comercial. You gotta be an extreme kudere for that to BARELY work.

Lets be honest outside of web novels or web comics you wont find a breakout support girl with a working brain in the target demographic of pokemon, at least we have Mairin working as the comon sense and the heart for the mega evo specials despite not being the ace.

Other scenarios proposed sound mostly like a fanfiction as no franchise would risk losing viewers by putting a smart but unexperienced girl role model on the focus, at least not after the 90s.

I thought brainy girls are an ok. Maybe even better than pretty tsundere.
But they usually are supports rather than the main cast.

Actually, Sabrina is very very popular in Japan. She's probably the most popular female in Gen 1, if not Erika.

 

[blookazoo]

What happened to Pidgeot? Ash left him in Viridian to guard the Pidgey and promised it that he'd come back for it but he didn't and still hasn't yet.

 

[Norne]

Let's address the primeape on the field here.

 

[blookazoo]

Let's address the primeape on the field here.

This picture is from the opening of Best Wishes. Primeape was left in the care of another trainer for training (equivalent of daycare I guess). Even here Pidgeot is excluded however.

 

[Pikachu315111]

What happened to Pidgeot? Ash left him in Viridian to guard the Pidgey and promised it that he'd come back for it but he didn't and still hasn't yet.

Despite Ash promising to go back and get Pidgeot, I think at this point we can retcon it as being fully released (or at least the promise modified of Ash going back for it after his journeying). The thing about Pidgeot is that Ash can't easily call someone to retrieve it like with Squirtle or previously Charizard. Squirtle is working for an Officer Jenny in its home town while Charizard was at the Charizific Valley, both a call away. But Pidgeot is somewhere in a forest between Kanto & Johto (not sure if its exactly on the outskirts of Pallet City or had they been walking for an hour or two), Oak would have to travel to the forest and call out for Pidgeot until it hears him. And it can't be retrieved like Charizard was in BW as it was left to protect the Pidgey/Pidgeotto flock from the Fearow/Spearow flock (and I imagine if somehow Ash was even able to temporarily get it back or a battle it'll have to go back after the battle as I'd imagine the Fearow/Spearow flock will take any opportunity to attack the Pidgey/Pidgeotto flock).
Of course it's odd Primeape is there, though technically Ash can just call Anthony to be sent back Primeape thus can be construed as an emergency reserve (though now that Ash has an Infernape, Pignite, Scraggy, and Hawlucha it's really not needed anymore). According to Bulbapedia, Primeape is considered "in training" like Squirtle while Pidgeot it listed with Butterfree, Lapras, and now Goodra as released.

 

[blookazoo]

Despite Ash promising to go back and get Pidgeot, I think at this point we can retcon it as being fully released (or at least the promise modified of Ash going back for it after his journeying). The thing about Pidgeot is that Ash can't easily call someone to retrieve it like with Squirtle or previously Charizard. Squirtle is working for an Officer Jenny in its home town while Charizard was at the Charizific Valley, both a call away. But Pidgeot is somewhere in a forest between Kanto & Johto (not sure if its exactly on the outskirts of Pallet City or had they been walking for an hour or two), Oak would have to travel to the forest and call out for Pidgeot until it hears him. And it can't be retrieved like Charizard was in BW as it was left to protect the Pidgey/Pidgeotto flock from the Fearow/Spearow flock (and I imagine if somehow Ash was even able to temporarily get it back or a battle it'll have to go back after the battle as I'd imagine the Fearow/Spearow flock will take any opportunity to attack the Pidgey/Pidgeotto flock).
Of course it's odd Primeape is there, though technically Ash can just call Anthony to be sent back Primeape thus can be construed as an emergency reserve (though now that Ash has an Infernape, Pignite, Scraggy, and Hawlucha it's really not needed anymore). According to Bulbapedia, Primeape is considered "in training" like Squirtle while Pidgeot it listed with Butterfree, Lapras, and now Goodra as released.

The Pidgeot situation really makes Ash come off as the dad who went out for a pack of cigarettes.

 

[Codraroll]

Then again, Ash abandoned Pidgeot merely a day's walk out of Pallet Town, at the very most. Earlier in that same episode, Pidgeot had (as a Pidgeotto) been at the party at Prof. Oak's place, the evening before Ash left off to the Orange Islands. Pidgeot is capable of flying at Mach 2 (2458 km/h). It can't be more of a minute's flight away from Pallet Town at that speed (2400 km/h is 40 km/min, and walking 40 km at a brisky pace takes eight hours).

If Pidgeot wants to go join the rest of Ash's Pokémon, it can literally swoop there in less time it takes to brew a cup of tea (it could go back and forth a few times in the time it takes to drink said cup of tea too, if it so wanted).

 

[Pikachu315111]

Then again, Ash abandoned Pidgeot merely a day's walk out of Pallet Town, at the very most. Earlier in that same episode, Pidgeot had (as a Pidgeotto) been at the party at Prof. Oak's place, the evening before Ash left off to the Orange Islands. Pidgeot is capable of flying at Mach 2 (2458 km/h). It can't be more of a minute's flight away from Pallet Town at that speed (2400 km/h is 40 km/min, and walking 40 km at a brisky pace takes eight hours).

If Pidgeot wants to go join the rest of Ash's Pokémon, it can literally swoop there in less time it takes to brew a cup of tea (it could go back and forth a few times in the time it takes to drink said cup of tea too, if it so wanted).

In my headcanon I like to think it does that sometimes. When Ash got Charizard back in BW and Ash had to send a Pokemon to Oak, Ash sent over Unfezant and Professor Oak mentioned that all of Ash's bird Pokemon have flying races occasionally so I'd like to think sometimes it comes over and does a flying race with Noctowl, Swellow, Staraptor & now Unfezant (and after Kalos will also add Talonflame, if Ash doesn't send it over early).

 

[Karxrida]

Primeape was basically in Ash's possession for like 5 episodes and quickly forgotten. It definitely shouldn't be at Oak's lab when it was never retrieved or directly mentioned after it was given away.

The writers probably (somehow) forgot about Pidgeot completely or just don't care about it.

 

[Codraroll]

Or maybe they'll bring it back as his Mega Evolution.

That could actually be a rather plausible fanservice moment for them. Have Ash flunk at the Kalos league, go back to Pallet, shenanigans happen. Ash finds a Pidgeotite for some contrived reason, Pidgeot arrives, Mega Evolves, blasts away Team Rocket, hugs Ash and promptly goes back into oblivion.

Then again, Ash already has four Mega capable Pokémon at Oak's farm, with more possibly to come with the release of new games. If the writers want to shoehorn in a Mega Evolution event back in Pallet, Pidgeot is quite far down the list of eligible candidates.

 

[stage7_4]

Based on the latest Anime previews, the Mega-Sceptile in the XY&Z poster is looking increasingly likely not to be Ash's (rather, that one green haired boy who's name escapes me/I really don't care).

Kind of a bummer, thought it would be cool of Ash to get a mega, and have it be a Hoenn team returner. While I like his current squad, he's still only got 5 and over half are flying types. Granted, it's not completely set in stone yet, but doesn't look very likely anymore.

Makes me wonder where all of this is going, since there is only one gym badge left. While even in-game the gap between gym 7 and 8 is pretty big, this seems like it will just get bigger with all the story teasing they keep dropping.

 

[Norne]

Am I the only one who loved latest episode with all of Serena reaction faces and Sylveon evolution?

Shippers seems to be on a hate train over it whereas I genuinely had a good chuckle XD

 

[Ming-Ming]

I thought the whole reason for Ash-Greninja was so that could be his mega? Since I assume people were worried that Ash would need to get rid of his Mega Ring by the end of XY.

 

[stage7_4]

I thought the whole reason for Ash-Greninja was so that could be his mega? Since I assume people were worried that Ash would need to get rid of his Mega Ring by the end of XY.

Maybe, but I'm not fully convinced that Ash-Greninja is a mega at all. For one the trigger is different, and another the form change is way too subtle compared to the more bombastic megas. Then there's also the "share pain" thing going on, that's weird. Plus there's the implications of if it is a mega, then all Mega-Greninja will look Ash-like? Even if not trained by Ash?

My current theory is that it's some weird effect of the Protean ability, but that has even less evidence then "mega-greninja."

 

[11pikabro]

Am I the only one who loved latest episode with all of Serena reaction faces and Sylveon evolution?

Shippers seems to be on a hate train over it whereas I genuinely had a good chuckle XD

I've only looked at the episode pictures on Serebii, but if it means seeing expressions like...

,
yeah, I think I'll enjoy it. I can see why the AmourShippers would be upset right now.

Kudos to evolving, Eevee!
Please don't let this mean we don't get to see more cute interactions between it and Bunnelby. I was starting to really enjoy Bunnelby over most of the currently seen Pokémon.