CAP 21 CaP 21 - Part 13 - Flavour Ability Discussion

[DHR-107]

The playtest has started, and now we need to finalize the last flavour details for the CAP - those that will have absolutely no bearing on how it plays/is playing on PS! Still, these details will bring Crucibelle together as a believable Pokemon, so contributions and good discussion are still very needed. This ability should have little significance competitively, and should be all about what makes sense on the Pokemon.

The following abilities are banned from this discussion:

Air Lock
Aura Break
Bad Dreams
Color Change
Dark Aura
Defeatist
Fairy Aura
Forecast
Fur Coat
Huge Power
Illusion
Imposter
Moody
Multitype
Parental Bond
Protean
Pure Power
Shadow Tag
Slow Start
Stance Change
Teravolt
Truant
Turboblaze
Victory Star
Wonder Guard
Zen Mode

Arena Trap
Drizzle
Drought
Magic Bounce
Magic Guard
Prankster
Sand Stream
Snow Warning
Speed Boost​

If you are curious as to why these abilities are banned, check out this thread to learn more. Remember, the ability we choose here is an Ineffective Ability, meaning that it should be inferior to both Regenerator and Mold Breaker (Crucibelle's competitive abilities).

Base - Regenerator / Mold Breaker

There's no official leader for this discussion, but please look to the mods/project leaders in general for guidance and judgement calls on what counts as ineffective. (But if you're not sure if an ability is ineffective or not, err on the side of caution - it probably is inappropriate.)

This thread will conclude in a few days, after which Pokedex entries will be put up.

----------------

Name: Crucibelle

Concept:

Name: Typing Underdog

General Description: A Pokémon which utilizes an undervalued typing to its full potential, by playing towards both its strengths and weaknesses.

Justification: Each typing possesses a unique set of characteristics, causing all of them to perform very differently in various aspects of battle. However, not every typing has been granted the opportunity to display this potential, being forced into suboptimal roles by virtue of stats, ability and movepool, and therefore often being labelled as “bad”.
This concept aims to do a detailed analysis on the primary function of such a typing along with its potentially unexplored capabilities, by creating a Pokémon that that emphasizes the typing’s most prominent traits and utilizes them effectively.
This approach will not only allow us to widen our understanding on the unique niche and preferred playstyle of the typing, but will also give us additional insight on the mechanics that lead to success and failure of the typing when comparing CAP to the wielders in the lower tiers.

Questions to be answered:

• What are the most important traits the Pokémon gains from the chosen typing, both positive and negative?
• Is quality or quantity of weaknesses/resistances/immunities more relevant to the chosen typing? What does this mean for the way it is played?
• How significant is the niche provided by the typing in OU? Are there any striking flaws in the typing that can’t be played around and prevent the Pokémon from performing reliably?
• How reliant is the typing on stats, ability and movepool in order to succeed in OU?
• Are the unique characteristics granted by the typing enough to set the Pokemon apart, or does it face strong competition for its role from Pokémon of other types?
• Is there any distinct playstyle that suits the chosen typing the best? Or can the same typing be utilized in an entirely different approach to similar success?
• How important is a type’s versatility for its overall success?
• Is a single Pokémon capable of portraying most relevant aspects of the entire type?

Typing: Rock / Poison
Abilities:

Base - Regenerator / Mold Breaker
Mega - Magic Guard​

Stats:

Base - 106 HP / 105 Atk / 65 Def / 75 SpA / 85 SpD / 104 Spe
Mega - 106 HP / 135 Atk / 75 Def / 85 SpA / 125 SpD / 114 Spe​

Movepool:

Level Up

- Head Smash
- Astonish
- Endure
- Protect
- Withdraw
5 Rock Throw
7 Toxic
10 Fake Tears
14 Confusion
16 Confuse Ray
19 Toxic Spikes
23 Smack Down
25 Reflect
28 Sludge
32 Acid Armor
36 Rock Slide
40 Psybeam
44 Hex
48 Torment
52 Rock Blast
56 Gunk Shot
60 Explosion

TM/HM

TM06 Toxic
TM09 Venoshock
TM10 Hidden Power
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM20 Safeguard
TM21 Frustration
TM23 Smack Down
TM27 Return
TM29 Psychic
TM30 Shadow Ball
TM32 Double Team
TM33 Reflect
TM34 Sludge Wave
TM36 Sludge Bomb
TM37 Sandstorm
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM41 Torment
TM42 Facade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM48 Round
TM63 Embargo
TM64 Explosion
TM66 Payback
TM68 Giga Impact
TM69 Rock Polish
TM71 Stone Edge
TM80 Rock Slide
TM83 Infestation
TM84 Poison Jab
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM89 U-turn
TM90 Substitute
TM94 Secret Power
HM06 Rock Smash

Tutor

Snore
Low Kick
Iron Head
Zen Headbutt
Gunk Shot
Block
Skill Swap
Helping Hand
Trick
Snatch
Magic Room
Wonder Room
Stealth Rock
Gravity

Egg

Egg Groups: Amorphous / Mineral

Coil
Defense Curl
Rollout
Wood Hammer

Height:

Base - 1.3 m / 4' 3"
Mega - 1.4 m / 4' 7"​

Weight:

Base - 23.6 kg / 52.0 lbs
Mega - 22.5 kg / 49.6 lbs​

 

[TerrickTerran]

Cute Charm and Shell/Battle Armor both come to mind. Obviously a small chance for attract isn't going to change things too much while avoiding critical hits is nice, it doesn't have near the versatility of regenerator.

 

[ShyGuy1221]

Poison Touch: The sludge like body is somewhat similar to Muk, and the chance to inflict non-toxic poison is actually a detriment.
Anticipation/Forewarn: Crucibelle seems like a very cautious pokemon, ready to dart back into its pot at a moments notice. Both completely outclassed by regenerator and mold breaker.
Liquid Ooze: Again with the squishy poison body, and while hurting those while switching into a drain punch or leech seed is cool, it is very much outclassed.

 

[Gemini Taurus]

On top of liking the Poison Touch, Liquid Ooze and Battle Armor already suggested, I think the main ability I would support is Overcoat. I imagine weather and powders wouldn't bother Crucibelle one bit if she went to hide in her pot.
Additionally I could see Sticky Hold as her sludge looks like it would get a pretty good grip on any item given.
Unnerve because of her poisonous/sludgey body, it'd make me lose my appetite at least.
Cursed Body as the skulls on the pot, at least to me, make it look it forbidden to touch or something of that nature.

If it weren't too competitive I could also see Gooey as it definitely looks like Crucibelle's body would be capable of getting stuck to you and probably slowing you down.

 

[Samoyed]

I like Anticipation/Forewarn, Cursed Body, and Cute Charm from the ones above. Here I'm going to nominate Stall as an ability because if Crucibelle is in a tight spot she can't escape, I have a feeling she'd want to stall it out.

 

[Mova]

I agree with Poison Touch because the slime on Belle's body could be similar to that of Muk's sludge, as stated above. Regular poison is also useless in the competitive metagame. Cursed Body implies that the skulls shouldn't be touched, and it is a rather situational Ability.

 

[EternalSnowman]

Rock Head comes to mind due to its helmet that seem to protect it.

 

[BP]

Weak Armor, Gooey, and Liquid Ooze are the abilites that I would mostly support.

Weak Armor: Crucibelle is pokemon that can be easily taken down without setting up. If it can survive a switch in physical attack then Weak Armor would be the perfect ability to help Cruci set up its speed easier.

Gooey: Crucibelle is already as fast as it needs to be so slowing a foe would not make the most sense. However Gooey does make sense when you think about Crucibelle and its form. Crucibelle is a pokemon made entirely out of poison so would it not make sense if it was a gooey in general.

Liquid Ooze: Again Crucibelle is made mainly out of poison. When we consider Tentacruel has Liquid Ooze, so it would make sense that Crucibelle has it right?

 

[FriesforNapkins]

As "cute" as Cruc. is, I really like the idea of Unnerve, something about the base form especially just seems to ooze danger. One thing I'll throw out there is Sweet Veil. The only 'mons that have it as of now (the Swirlix line), express the ability in a literal form, as they're quite literally candy pokemon, but I think it fits Cruc. very well in that most of it's "cuteness" is probably a facade... or, a... "Sweet Veil"...?

 

[Exclaimer]

Rock Head comes to mind due to its helmet that seem to protect it.

Rock Head is absolutely not gonna happen. It removes recoil, which we're trying to make people Mega Evolve for.

 

[sparktrain]

I'll throw in a suggestion: Heatproof. A crucible is a container that can withstand extremely high temperatures, so it's easy to make the connection here. As for its competitive usefulness, it's an ineffective option, as Crucibelle already has a resistance to Fire and forces out Fire-types and most Fire move users easily. Giving up the ability to restore a third of its health upon switching out in exchange for resistance to a type it already resists isn't worth it. The reduced burn damage isn't really helpful either, as Crucibelle doesn't enjoy being burned either way.

As far as the other suggestions go, I like the ones that hint towards its Poison typing, namely Poison Touch and Liquid Ooze.

 

[Earth Traveler]

Battle Armor Maybe Overcoat? Because theoretically Crucibelle should be able to hide in that pot to block powder moves and weather effects from coming in, and it's not great competitively since Cruci is already immune to one damage-inducing weather effect, Sandstorm, and the other one is Hail which is rarely seen. It also already outspeeds and KOs a lot of powder users, so I don't think a lot of people would pick over Regenerator/Mold Breaker.

 

[Alfalfa]

More flavor polls.....

Rock Head comes to mind due to its helmet that seem to protect it.

Except the base form could still abuse Rock Head, which makes this ability as a flavor ability moot.

Weak Armor, Gooey, and Liquid Ooze are the abilites that I would mostly support.

Weak Armor: Crucibelle is pokemon that can be easily taken down without setting up. If it can survive a switch in physical attack then Weak Armor would be the perfect ability to help Cruci set up its speed easier.
Gooey: Crucibelle is already as fast as it needs to be so slowing a foe would not make the most sense. However Gooey does make sense when you think about Crucibelle and its form. Crucibelle is a pokemon made entirely out of poison so would it not make sense if it was a gooey in general.

Again, we want abilities that our CAP cannot abuse. It technically does have a good amount of speed, but Gooey is a really good all-around ability and Weak Armor can actually make Crucibelle considerably more dangerous than it is right now by being able to outspeed the majority of the unboosted metagame.

 

[snake]

Man I wanted to be first to propose Poison Touch...oh well I support that! I support Cute Charm as well. Although Attract status could get annoying, most contact moves will outright KO Crucibelle (if it's not getting hit by Earthquake), and it doesn't have access to paralysis-inducing moves or confusion-inducing moves. Liquid Ooze sounds pretty good too, but its really not oozing anything; it all seems contained to the pot, whether in the pot or dripping from its hair. Nevertheless, I can see the ability working.

For me:
1. Poison Touch
2. Cute Charm
3. Liquid Ooze

 

[Trox]

One thing is for certain: It doesn't matter what ability we decide upon here, there will be trolls using them in the future.
I personally hate my mons being confused and attracted the most, that's why I'm strongly against Cute Charm.
It just opens the door to more hax, and let's be honest, there are already enough of them in competitive play.

Also, I think that Overcoat is a bit too useful for a flavour ability.
Sure, Crucibelle already is immune against sand and it outspeeds and kills many sleep inducers with Gunk Shot, but Overcoat still gives her a free switch in to those mons.

Abilities that I would suggest are Liquid Ooze or Poison Touch.

 

[EternalSnowman]

Right derp forgot that pre mega would still use Rock Head, but I think Poison Touch is a good choice.

 

[KogaEliteFour]

Wonder Skin may seem like an interesting ability, as Crucibelle does seem to have some weird skin. Plus, Wonder Skin hasn't been used very much in CAP Flavour Abilities, so we'd be mixing it up.

 

[DHR-107]

I am keeping tabs on this and will probably leave it open till the end of the weekend my time.

I like a few of the suggestions, but stuff like Gooey, Weak Armour, Wonder Skin, Overcoat and Cursed Body are too good of abilities. Especially the ones which change speed, Crucibelle is this speed number for good reason. Switching into a U Turn with Weak Armour would allow it to wreck stuff. [I will accept arguments for Overcoat]. I will NOT be considering these.

Most of the others (Excluding Cute Charm) are fine at the moment. I'll probably have a natter with the other mods to decide which go to the vote when it comes. Keep it up!

 

[Admiraal Aardappel]

To be honest, I'm kind of against Cute Charm. Like with Necturna, Cruci might be both cute and charming, but also like Necturna, I don't believe that the ability fits on her (and of course, Necturna didn't actually end up getting it either). Most of the pokes that get Cute Charm, excluding a select few, are of the pink and fluffy variety. It's also slightly annnoying due to the RNG but let's just ignore that.

Instead, I think we should focus more on the shy, hiding in pot angle. Like Necturna's distinguishing feature was it's 'miko' abilities (and perhaps in some people's eyes, yandere-ness), Crucibelle's is the way it normally hides in its vase. Also flavorful is that it loses this ability when mega-ing, gaining the confidence to get out of it's shell, as reflected in its appearance. While I'm not exactly sure yet what ability fits best, I currently think something like Shell Armor is rather fitting, as it's kind of reminescent of withdrawing into one's shell, or in this case vase, but maybe there's a better ability somewhere?

 

[Mova]

Has anyone mentioned Pickup at all? Belle could be a chest monster like Electrode and Amoonguss (It's a mimic, which are known for hiding in treasure chests), so I thought it would represent two definitions of materialism. One refers to the idea that she's in a pot, which is an inanimate object (in other words: a materialistic construct). Also, I somehow assumed that this slime waifu would have a love for the shiny items she sees, especially the type that can be sold for a high pirce at shops. Also, Pickup is useless in competitive.

 

[BP]

To be completly honest I really like the idea of Liquid Ooze. Not only does it make sense with Crucibelle's poison typing but it also works competivly as well.

Looking at Tentacruel

and then at Crucibelle you can see that Tentacruel is a solid pokemon where Crucibelle is more of a liquid with solid parts. So wouldn't make it make more sense to put Liquid Ooze as a possible ability?

 

[Mx]

In my opinion, Liquid Ooze and Sticky Hold are the best options.

Also, why are Truant and Defeatist banned? I don't think they are appropriate in this case, I understand why they're banned in primary and secondary ability, but here, it seems a little arbitrary to me. I read the thread linked on the first post, but it was about the competitive merits of the abilities , which doesn't apply to this ones, because they're useless competitively. I apologize if this wasn't the place to bring this up

 

[Da Pizza Man]

Most of the others (Excluding Cute Charm) are fine at the moment. I'll probably have a natter with the other mods to decide which go to the vote when it comes. Keep it up!

Could I please get some reasoning as to why Cute Charm isn't fine? I don't really care about the ability that much, but for an ability that is pretty popular, you should give us some reasoning.

But anyways, one ability that I'm not to big of a fan of right now is Poison Touch. I understand that Crucibelle is very similar to Muk and similar poison types (Which is why I support Liquid Ooze) but the difference is that Crucibelle has rock for her arms, and her main way of attacking is covered by a stone pot top, so I don't really get where Crucibelle is going to be touching something in order to poison it, since the other poke who get it are obvious

 

[Exclaimer]

I agree with DPM that Poison Touch seems like a bad ability, but I have another reasoning: Crucibelle is shy, it's not gonna want to be touching others. Secondly, its most powerful and spammable Poison move doesn't even make contact.

I'm supporting : Liquid Ooze (Goo body), Sticky Hold, Overcoat (should it be allowed), Shell Armor (It retreats within its "shell" of an urn), Poison Point (It has spikes on its back and helmet), and Heatproof (Ceramics are pretty heat resistant).

Aftermath seems like a nice flavor ability, since it gets Explosion. Is it too useful?

 

[FriesforNapkins]

Heatproof's interesting, but I don't really think it makes sense for Crucibelle. The ceramics are definitely heat-resistant, but even if Crucibelle were to tuck into full "pot-form", the gooey parts of their body would get all messed up from the heat and pressure. What makes Crucibelle work as a being in the first place seems to be their ability to regulate heat, as parts of it's body aren't always necessarily solid or liquid.

I'm going to throw support behind Shell Armor though, and throw out another suggestion along the same line: Run Away. It's 100% flavor based, but I think it's one of the few abilities that fits Crucibelle's shyness well.