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SPOILERS! Mysteries and Conspiracies of Pokemon
- Thread starter stage7_4
- Start date
Time for a topic change: Staryu, one of my favorite pokemon lines. Starmie was always awesome in-game, in the battle tower, and it's cool that it managed to stay OU for 6 generations despite only receiving minor buffs (in comparison to Gengar or Gyarados for example). But enough about that, we're here for a mystery and here's mine:
What's that?
No seriously, WHAT IS THAT?!
In all seriousness now, what is that supposed to be? According to the pokedex and bulbapedia, it's a mounting ring for the gem on the front, but why is it always in the same position? As a kid I thought it signified the starfish's "core" or "head," which doesn't make much sense now that I know starfish anatomy better.
Is it some reference that I'm missing? Like, if you placed your hand on Staryu's back, the "ring" would be on your ring finger too?
To add to the mystery, it's only on Staryu. Starmie loses her's when she evolves.
I feel like Starmie's ring is hidden by the fact that it has an extra Staryu on its back.
Though speaking of the two Staryu thing, Starmie's design is apparently based on the Sumerian goddess Inanna, the goddess of love. She's associated with two stars, and the only real thing Starmie lacks when you compare it to Inanna is the fact that Inanna is also symbolized by lions.
Though speaking of the two Staryu thing, Starmie's design is apparently based on the Sumerian goddess Inanna, the goddess of love. She's associated with two stars, and the only real thing Starmie lacks when you compare it to Inanna is the fact that Inanna is also symbolized by lions.
stage7_4:
This is what happens when you go the cheap route and get your Staryu made in Sinnoh, shoddy quality. Starmie is home made in the good ol' Un-Ov-A and look, not a single seam visible. It's showing the progression of quality production. #BuyUnovican :P
In all seriousness, looks like its just a band to fasten the core's ring into place. A bit of added detail to an otherwise very simple design. Starmie may not have it because it's core ring is screwed in from the back which is obviously covered up by the 2nd star.
This is what happens when you go the cheap route and get your Staryu made in Sinnoh, shoddy quality. Starmie is home made in the good ol' Un-Ov-A and look, not a single seam visible. It's showing the progression of quality production. #BuyUnovican :P
In all seriousness, looks like its just a band to fasten the core's ring into place. A bit of added detail to an otherwise very simple design. Starmie may not have it because it's core ring is screwed in from the back which is obviously covered up by the 2nd star.
^I liked your post before editing, and it just keeps getting better lol.
I guess my big question is the orientation rather than the ring itself. Like why is it always on the "left leg" so to speak? It just seems so random, yet they do this for every appearance of Staryu (in main series games).
Just laziness in sprite/model work?
I guess my big question is the orientation rather than the ring itself. Like why is it always on the "left leg" so to speak? It just seems so random, yet they do this for every appearance of Staryu (in main series games).
Just laziness in sprite/model work?
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My guess is consistency. We've seen time and time again that Staryu has no problem spinning around so there's no "head" spike since the core is suppose to be the face and the spikes limbs. They could have the band around a different spike each gen but why bother with such a little detail? Like if they're not going to really give Arbok a different hood pattern for each generation which is said in its Pokedex, why would they do it for something that's just a quirk of the design and not really commented anywhere in the game. There are just some details you gotta accept as being there just for detail, possibly to add some substance to what would have been a simple and bland design.
I decided to change China to Sinnoh because I did feel it was a bit unfair (besides "Made in India" is a thing too). Don't know why I picked Sinnoh, guess since I didn't want to pick Kanto & Johto since there's Staryu home region (or connected to it) and Hoenn's thing is about nature. That said I then couldn't pass up the Unova being the USA joke so threw that in with the hashtag.
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Uh, actually...
if you look closely you can see slight diffences between all of these, particularly in the eye and mouth spots. Now granted, they've used the last one for Gen 5 and 6 (although you could argue that Gen 6 Arbok has slightly different eyespots).
Edit: Credit due to Codraroll and the "Little things you like about pokemon" forum.
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True, but to me when they talk about different patterns I imagine major differences. However they're always either a variation of the pattern that's from Kanto or from Johto:Uh, actually...
if you look closely you can see slight diffences between all of these, particularly in the eye and mouth spots. Now granted, they've used the last one for Gen 5 and 6 (although you could argue that Gen 6 Arbok has slightly different eyespots).
Edit: Credit due to Codraroll and the "Little things you like about pokemon" forum.
Gen I
FRLG
Gen IV
Gen V
Gen VI
FRLG
Gen IV
Gen V
Gen VI
Gen II
RSE
RSE
I actually think it's a reference to some of its Pokédex entries:
What's that?
No seriously, WHAT IS THAT?!
It seems like one of the legs was torn off and is in the process of growing back. A fully grown limb will encapsulate the yellow band completely, but it will show through when the limb is regrowing.Alpha Sapphire Pokédex said:
The_Emperor:
No one knows, they never detailed. From what I can gather it must be a private project as the reason it hasn't been completed 3 years later was because the guy doing the construction ran out of money. Another thing to consider is that from Gen III on it's a pretty big property. In Gen I and II you could have just concluded he was building a house for himself as the construction zone was the same size of the other buildings:
So now I doubt it's just a house unless the guy was building a manor. If I were to make a guess, from a business standpoint, I'd say maybe a hotel. Vermilion is a port town and sailors do need to sleep. A hotel here would probably make a nice profit from not only sailors but maybe even trainers who came to challenge the gym. They could maybe even get some tourists coming in.
No one knows, they never detailed. From what I can gather it must be a private project as the reason it hasn't been completed 3 years later was because the guy doing the construction ran out of money. Another thing to consider is that from Gen III on it's a pretty big property. In Gen I and II you could have just concluded he was building a house for himself as the construction zone was the same size of the other buildings:
So now I doubt it's just a house unless the guy was building a manor. If I were to make a guess, from a business standpoint, I'd say maybe a hotel. Vermilion is a port town and sailors do need to sleep. A hotel here would probably make a nice profit from not only sailors but maybe even trainers who came to challenge the gym. They could maybe even get some tourists coming in.
That's still one of the weakest aspects of GSCHGSS to me. One of the best parts of revisiting Kanto is seeing how it has changed in the past 3 years and this would have been a cool change, but they went the lazy route.The_Emperor:
No one knows, they never detailed. From what I can gather it must be a private project as the reason it hasn't been completed 3 years later was because the guy doing the construction ran out of money. Another thing to consider is that from Gen III on it's a pretty big property. In Gen I and II you could have just concluded he was building a house for himself as the construction zone was the same size of the other buildings:
So now I doubt it's just a house unless the guy was building a manor. If I were to make a guess, from a business standpoint, I'd say maybe a hotel. Vermilion is a port town and sailors do need to sleep. A hotel here would probably make a nice profit from not only sailors but maybe even trainers who came to challenge the gym. They could maybe even get some tourists coming in.
I like the creepypasta about it (http://creepypasta.wikia.com/wiki/Vermilion_City_Construction_Project ) but it would have been nice to see it built into something.The_Emperor:
No one knows, they never detailed. From what I can gather it must be a private project as the reason it hasn't been completed 3 years later was because the guy doing the construction ran out of money. Another thing to consider is that from Gen III on it's a pretty big property. In Gen I and II you could have just concluded he was building a house for himself as the construction zone was the same size of the other buildings:
So now I doubt it's just a house unless the guy was building a manor. If I were to make a guess, from a business standpoint, I'd say maybe a hotel. Vermilion is a port town and sailors do need to sleep. A hotel here would probably make a nice profit from not only sailors but maybe even trainers who came to challenge the gym. They could maybe even get some tourists coming in.
I agree...I think there should have been a hotel or something different....
Alright, this one might be a bit of a reach, but something that crossed my mind watching the First Movie for Mewtwo's "birthday".
Does the anime at any point present absolute and irrefutable proof that the DNA Mewtwo is cloned from is Mew's DNA? Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I wonder if perhaps Mewtwo is based on not just an enhanced sample, but possibly a unique species of Pokemon like a mutation or deficient mutation/breed of Mew. To elaborate on my line of thinking:
- Mewtwo is supposed to not just be an exact, but an enhanced clone of Mew based on the DNA sample the scientists procured so that it can be the perfect fighting being. Yet if Mewtwo here is taken as accurate to the games, or we account for what a later portrayal implies, Mewtwo lacks a particularly useful battle trait: Mew's ridiculously expansive movepool. The manga's depiction gives a justification for this imperfection since Mewtwo was more of a hybrid between Mew's DNA and Blaine's, but in the anime the only thing ever definitively stated to be used in the cloning process is the supposed Mew sample the archaeologists found.
- The Team Plasma Mewtwo makes me wonder since a separate set of scientists ended up with what seems an identical Pokemon (Physically) despite having no reason for us to believe they had access to the work from the original; Mewtwo went into hiding and wiped the memories of Team Rocket, the only people who would both know of its existence and actually have notes of that sort regarding its origin and creation. If Mewtwo's DNA was that of a different species/genome, I could actually believe that they came to the same mon in what was more of a straight cloning experiment, rather than making the exact same enhancements to what are not-likely-identical samples of Mew DNA.
Even in the movie, I don't remember any empirical proof of the DNA's origin, as they recover the sample from a temple with something that at best looks like a few hairs, which I don't think would have enough DNA to reconstruct the important parts of an organism. Most times it's reaffirmed are Mewtwo boasting, and the best he can know is what the scientists told him before he obliterated the lab.
Does the anime at any point present absolute and irrefutable proof that the DNA Mewtwo is cloned from is Mew's DNA? Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I wonder if perhaps Mewtwo is based on not just an enhanced sample, but possibly a unique species of Pokemon like a mutation or deficient mutation/breed of Mew. To elaborate on my line of thinking:
- Mewtwo is supposed to not just be an exact, but an enhanced clone of Mew based on the DNA sample the scientists procured so that it can be the perfect fighting being. Yet if Mewtwo here is taken as accurate to the games, or we account for what a later portrayal implies, Mewtwo lacks a particularly useful battle trait: Mew's ridiculously expansive movepool. The manga's depiction gives a justification for this imperfection since Mewtwo was more of a hybrid between Mew's DNA and Blaine's, but in the anime the only thing ever definitively stated to be used in the cloning process is the supposed Mew sample the archaeologists found.
- The Team Plasma Mewtwo makes me wonder since a separate set of scientists ended up with what seems an identical Pokemon (Physically) despite having no reason for us to believe they had access to the work from the original; Mewtwo went into hiding and wiped the memories of Team Rocket, the only people who would both know of its existence and actually have notes of that sort regarding its origin and creation. If Mewtwo's DNA was that of a different species/genome, I could actually believe that they came to the same mon in what was more of a straight cloning experiment, rather than making the exact same enhancements to what are not-likely-identical samples of Mew DNA.
Even in the movie, I don't remember any empirical proof of the DNA's origin, as they recover the sample from a temple with something that at best looks like a few hairs, which I don't think would have enough DNA to reconstruct the important parts of an organism. Most times it's reaffirmed are Mewtwo boasting, and the best he can know is what the scientists told him before he obliterated the lab.
They do directly state that Mewtwo was cloned from Mew's eyelash in the first Movie. The Japanese version gets pretty explicit, with Mew trying to stop all cloned pokemon because he believes they are inferior (yeah, Japanese Mew is a bit racist) having personal stakes in the fighting (unlike the dub where he just playfully wandered in and then was just defending himself). All bets are off for the continuity mess that is the Genesect movie though.
Your line of reasoning does have some credence though. Disregarding the very very very very very loose definition of "cloning" in science fiction, even in universe Mewtwo's a bit one-of-a-kind (well, two of a kind now). Compare Mewtwo and Mew versus all the other clones from that movie, and you can tell: the other clones are perfect copies (except a minor case of leprosy but that's hopefully just cosmetic), while Mewtwo is not. Given who financed the Mewtwo project (Giovanni) it seems reasonable that one of two things happened:
1. The process was flawed, and Mewtwo isn't a direct clone. That imperfection either caused the mew-tation or they threw in other DNA to fill in the gaps. Because DNA is just like legos. ...yeah this really is just science-bull isn't it?
2. They deliberately altered their mew-clone to make it a weapon, just like the Genesect's years later. Because why know how to use defog and swords dance when you can have Psystrike?
I like option 2 better because it means when Mewtwo perfected his mewtagen process to make mewclones he wanted them to be true clones rather than a perfect fighting mewtation. So Mewtwo's mew pokemon would be better than the old pokemon on mewrit rather than bio-augmewtation. Mew.
Your line of reasoning does have some credence though. Disregarding the very very very very very loose definition of "cloning" in science fiction, even in universe Mewtwo's a bit one-of-a-kind (well, two of a kind now). Compare Mewtwo and Mew versus all the other clones from that movie, and you can tell: the other clones are perfect copies (except a minor case of leprosy but that's hopefully just cosmetic), while Mewtwo is not. Given who financed the Mewtwo project (Giovanni) it seems reasonable that one of two things happened:
1. The process was flawed, and Mewtwo isn't a direct clone. That imperfection either caused the mew-tation or they threw in other DNA to fill in the gaps. Because DNA is just like legos. ...yeah this really is just science-bull isn't it?
2. They deliberately altered their mew-clone to make it a weapon, just like the Genesect's years later. Because why know how to use defog and swords dance when you can have Psystrike?
I like option 2 better because it means when Mewtwo perfected his mewtagen process to make mewclones he wanted them to be true clones rather than a perfect fighting mewtation. So Mewtwo's mew pokemon would be better than the old pokemon on mewrit rather than bio-augmewtation. Mew.
Crazy idea number 100,000,000: Because we are just human beings, we cannot begin to fully comprehend Mew and Mewtwo, who are supposed to be superior. Therefore, to us, Mewtwo doesn't appear like a perfect clone of Mew but in actual fact he is, it is just are perception...basically the main principle of the pokemon anime.
Which is actually apt if you think about it...
What is this now?
Which is actually apt if you think about it...
Have you ever head of the Mother/Earthbound series?
The above image (what can be best described as a smeared red face) is the "form" the final boss takes in Mother 2/Earthbound. It attacks the party with mental attacks since "you can't grasp its true form" (thus why I brought it up).
The people who make the Mother/Earthbound series also worked on the Pokemon games and you can see inspirations from Mother/Earthbound in Pokemon. The most notable is Mewtwo's design who looks like the final boss from Mother 1/Earthbound Zero. BTW, the final boss from both games are the same being, it was an alien in Mother 1/Earthbound Zero who upon its defeat become a warped entity you fight in Mother 2/Earthbound.
New mystery: How are Pokemon actually able to learn egg moves? Like...what happens that allows Pokemon to learn moves from the egg? And how can we have some Pokemon learn moves in a lower form that it can't learn in the other form. Like how can you only get Extrasensory while breeding Budew and not Roselia? (aside from giving a reason for people to care to get Budew)
Maybe it's because some things are easier to teach when you're young? Like there are several proven studies about foreign languages being easier for young children to pick up than adults. The evolved pokemon are just so much older and set in their ways that it's hard for them to learn a move outside of their niche.
As for egg moves, you got me. Genetic memory? Like how spiders and other animals without parents can instinctively know skills and knowledge despite having nobody to teach it to them.
I think it's because if you teach something to a child, they'll be better at by the time they're an adult.