Resource RU Viability Rankings Thread

[Ramy]

Since durant is finally off the "conclusion reached list", let me finally spread my opinion on him.

Over time as the meta has evolved and more threats have become banned, theres 1 pokemon that has been improving and increasing in popularity. Its the little ant made of power of steel. DURANT.

Durant from A+ to S
You may be asking "Durant isnt godly enough for the beloved S tier, get that oil out of your brain." But honestly i believe durant is more than what its worth, before i give a big old explanations, ima give an analysis. Lets go over its advantages and disadvantages.

Type: Bug / Steel
Stats: 58 / 109 / 112 / 48 / 48 / 109
Abilities: Hustle / Swarm / Truant

Advantages:
Durant is an amazing pokemon with its high speed, high attack, and high defense that greatly complements its defensive typing of bug and steel. 109 attack attack and speed is godly and its defenses make sure you can live that close combat from virizion even at 0 defense. You can run a variety of items on it like scarf, band, life orb, sash, even leftovers, it will do you good. Scarf durant makes it the fastest non boosted pokemon in the tier (unless you run scarf cincinno or scarf ambipom lol), Band makes it hit HARD, and with its ability hustle which increases its attack by 1.5, its damage is insane to the opposing pokemon. Life orb just for a variety of moves to use and still do hard damage with the cost of hp of course, and even leftovers for sub baton pass if you are into that kind of set. Durant carries amazing moves to 2ko the whole tier and get rid of threats. STAB iron head to damage ice types, rock types, fairy types, x-scissor for grass types, psychic types, dark types (which is dominating the tier right now), superpower for steel types and normal types, rock slide for fire and flying types, and much more like crunch, shadow claw, and even toxic if your that 1 guy who runs that. Overall durant is a fierce monster in the tier that shows no boundary's and gives anybody anxiety once they see one.

Disadvantages:
Sadly durant isnt all loving and gold. 1 thing is that its hp and special defense are HORRIBLE. 58 hp and 48 sp.d make up for getting ko'ed or highly damaged by special attacks and its heart breaking to see durant take so much damage or even lose a valuable member on your team. Another thing is that while its ability hustle gives a boosted 1.5 to its attack, its accuracy just pluments to where all of its attack are by 0.8, meaning all of your 100% accuracy moves are now stone edge's accuracy, and your 90% accuracy moves are now focus blast's accuracy, and missing your attacks can hurt A LOT, and no, while swarm doesnt do this, its much more appreciated to have a boost in attack, and truant is lol. 1 more thing is that fire types are its weak point, and durant pretty much cant go up against a mega camerupt.


tl;dr: Durant is an amazing pokemon with awesome stats, good movepool, good typing, and a overall threat to the tier. While it does have its disadvantages from weak hp and sp.d, and a ability that gives strong attack but less accuracy, its advantages greatly outshine its disadvantages to high levels and it's still a fierce to be reckoned with and a dominant player in the game that can 2ko everything in its sight. "Durant is the most broken pokemon in the tier" - Kableye.

 

[Umen Berker]

Oh no. The Durant arguement is going to happen again. Please no not again. *quickly attempts to grab a heatmor to eat it*

But seriously I cant see how it's role has changed significantly from the last time we discussed this to warrant a rise to S. It still has to pick it's last coverage move (either crunch or thunderfang) one way it has no way to get past alomomola and the other way it gets stopped by brongzong and both ways by bulky steel types. It fears burns, all entry hazards, most forms of priority cause it trouble, most scarfers in the tier cause it trouble. It seems like whenever I build a team I manage to check or counter it without having to specfically plan for it, unlike the other s rank mons.

It just doesnt seem like it has gotten a better position than last time we brought it up. Still a stellar Mon but not S rank material.

 

[tehy]

Oh no. The Durant arguement is going to happen again. Please no not again. *quickly attempts to grab a heatmor to eat it*

But seriously I cant see how it's role has changed significantly from the last time we discussed this to warrant a rise to S. It still has to pick it's last coverage move (either crunch or thunderfang) one way it has no way to get past alomomola and the other way it gets stopped by brongzong and both ways by bulky steel types. It fears burns, all entry hazards, most forms of priority cause it trouble, most scarfers in the tier cause it trouble. It seems like whenever I build a team I manage to check or counter it without having to specfically plan for it, unlike the other s rank mons.

It just doesnt seem like it has gotten a better position than last time we brought it up. Still a stellar Mon but not S rank material.

the fact that nothing has changed is precisely why it still deserves S

right now, it's a solid check to m-aboma, another one of the most dominating Pokemon in the tier and a solid s-rank itself.

alomomola doesn't stop durant, it at most checks it with scald, and loses to lum. Additionally, you're getting about 1 chance to burn, since

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Superpower vs. 120 HP / 136 Def Alomomola: 461-543 (92 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

well, if you've still got lefties and no priors, I guess you could get away with this - it could also just superpower you at +1, of course.

bronzong is I guess that HP fire dogass which isn't dogass specifically because of durant but still takes plenty from Durant.

which forms of priority actually cause it trouble? If anything it eats them all, not enjoying them in some cases but they don't OHKO or even come close in most cases.

durant is just a complete beast, that's all there is to it.

note: all of durant's good checks are 1 attack on the switch-in from dying to +1 whatever. band / lo all out attacker claims souls as well.

 

[Lord Death Man]

Oh no. The Durant arguement is going to happen again. Please no not again. *quickly attempts to grab a heatmor to eat it*

But seriously I cant see how it's role has changed significantly from the last time we discussed this to warrant a rise to S. It still has to pick it's last coverage move (either crunch or thunderfang) one way it has no way to get past alomomola and the other way it gets stopped by brongzong and both ways by bulky steel types. It fears burns, all entry hazards, most forms of priority cause it trouble, most scarfers in the tier cause it trouble. It seems like whenever I build a team I manage to check or counter it without having to specfically plan for it, unlike the other s rank mons.

It just doesnt seem like it has gotten a better position than last time we brought it up. Still a stellar Mon but not S rank material.

Band/4 attacks LO don't have that coverage problem (Iron Head/X-Scissor/Superpower/Thunder Fang wrecks everything but Cofagrigus, who can switch in only once assuming it's physically defensive). In addition, I'm unsure what you mean when you say it needs Crunch to get around Bronzong as well, because Bronzong absolutely doesn't switch in. There's also a legitimate scarf set which is very difficult to handle as offense (including weather offense!) and has a good enough speed tier to be adamant (You miss Delphox and Flygon, both of which are somewhat manageable), which helps neutralize some of the power loss. Durant's best defensive checks are sparse and decently unpopular, bar Qwilfish, and it has ways around all of them - Poliwrath, Cofagrigus, Hitmontop sort of, defensive Emboar, physically defensive Alomomola, etc. In addition, it's faster than the vast majority of the tier while still having the power to OHKO most (slower) offense staples which is terrifying.

I only have loose knowledge of what sets other than band and scarf do honestly, I haven't felt a compelling reason to even bother with anything else since I can usually just click iron head or x-scissor and win, but I dont think coverage is the problem HC sets have. It's that you're either hyper prepared or you get rolled, every time, which is true for every S-rank right now.

 

[phantom]

Hoopa added to new Pokemon rank. Discussion on it isn't allowed for a week, if not at least five days.

 

[Meloetta_FTW]

Sigh* OK you win, I guess meloetta will just stay as it is.... Happy?

BTW please tell me Y

 

[Thatwackycruton]

Okay.

Meloetta rising actually isn't that unreasonable of a request. However, the way you put it rubbed off on me and who I assume to be several other members as brazen and uneducated. It is clear you don't have a proper understanding of how Smogon's tiers work, judging from the fact that you brought up Pokemon from UU and OU. I don't want to be a complete buzzkill here, but you should stick to lurking around the forums for a bit before challenging several other members who are much more skilled at competitive battling. Also, if you would like me to actually bring up competitive reasons as to why Meloetta shouldn't rise, it struggles immensely with pursuit trappers such as Escavalier. Furthermore, it can be easily wipes out by dark types such as Houndoom and Spiritomb. While this can be remedied somewhat by holding a Coblur berry, this makes it so that meloetta cannot run items such as the leftovers or life orb. Meloetta alos has a rather poor speed tier, leaving it outsped and quickly dispatched by Durant, one of the metagame's most prominent threats. Finally, while its STAB moves retain decent neutral coverage, they struggle to get past Steel-Types. While focus blast can be run to remedy this, it's unreliable and still cannot hit escavalier for solid enough damage. Meloetta is a very solid pokemon in the RU metagame, but it struggles a bit too much with common threats to be put into S rank like other extremely dominant pokemon, such as mega Abomasnow.

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Consider checking all of these out, escpecially the last one. Have a good day!

 

[Miyami~~]

We lost Charizard. Does that give us reason to get it off the VR?

 

[Froggyboy]

Well if it was just ranked because it was RU, it would've been D rank. With Solar Power + Specs, it hits stupidly hard to even resists, and pairs well with Venusaur/Victreebel for sun cores, which is why I think it is C-.

 

[Aberforth]

Hey so can we get Fletchinder to rise from A to A+.

Hoopa dropping into the tier has been one of the best possible things that could have happened to Fletchinder, as it has resulted in a rise of offensive playstyles, which fletchinder does fantastically against, as well as the rise of a bunch of pursuit trappers minismogbird beats, as well as the fact that Hoopa loses to it too. Its checks are easy to prepare for by partnering it with other good mons like Mega Lix and even the things that check it hate switching in for fear of eating a burn to cripple them. On top of that, pretty much all the metagame shifts in the last few months have been favourable to it, with mega aboma, sharpedo, absol, and venusaur all dropping, all of whom support the hummingbird fantastically while also creating a meta even more favourable for Fletchinder by promoting fighting types that lose to it and lowering the viability of some of the mons that give it most trouble. The only unfavourable drops have been Manectric, Aggron, Aero and Diancie, none of whom enjoy switching in to potentially eat a burn, and are generally well prepared for by the rest of the meta.

On top of this, its rock weakness doesn't hinder it as much as it has in the past due to the increasingly offensive metagame meaning it has to switch around less than it would in a slower metagame. And its not like its impossible to build a team with good hazard support either.

As a result, I see Fletch being more viable than the likes of mega glalie and quilfish, and on par with the likes of Diancie and Virision, and would like to see this reflected in the rankings.

 

[Ramy]

Hey so can we get Fletchinder to rise from A to A+.

Hoopa dropping into the tier has been one of the best possible things that could have happened to Fletchinder, as it has resulted in a rise of offensive playstyles, which fletchinder does fantastically against, as well as the rise of a bunch of pursuit trappers minismogbird beats, as well as the fact that Hoopa loses to it too. Its checks are easy to prepare for by partnering it with other good mons like Mega Lix and even the things that check it hate switching in for fear of eating a burn to cripple them. On top of that, pretty much all the metagame shifts in the last few months have been favourable to it, with mega aboma, sharpedo, absol, and venusaur all dropping, all of whom support the hummingbird fantastically while also creating a meta even more favourable for Fletchinder by promoting fighting types that lose to it and lowering the viability of some of the mons that give it most trouble. The only unfavourable drops have been Manectric, Aggron, Aero and Diancie, none of whom enjoy switching in to potentially eat a burn, and are generally well prepared for by the rest of the meta.

On top of this, its rock weakness doesn't hinder it as much as it has in the past due to the increasingly offensive metagame meaning it has to switch around less than it would in a slower metagame. And its not like its impossible to build a team with good hazard support either.

As a result, I see Fletch being more viable than the likes of mega glalie and quilfish, and on par with the likes of Diancie and Virision, and would like to see this reflected in the rankings.

I have mixed feelings on this as fletch can sweep lots of pokemon, but the pokemon it cant sweep, it cant really do much at all. First of all, hoopa v fletch is in hoopas favor (unless you are at +2 that is) since it has crazy spa to take it out. With the increase of diancie, its hindered its ability to get off damage as diancie can wall all of its moves, strike back with diamond storm, and can heal bell.

This isnt the only case where fletch is hurt, as scarf trum is still potent throughout the meta, and with things such as rhyperior, seismatoad, bronzong, and possibly mega camerupt walling it, setting up rocks, and striking back hinders its reputation. Also i have to disagree with "Stealth rock not hindering it as much", are you kidding me? It takes off 50% damage, and using fletch as a switch in is almost impossible to do as its weak hp and weak def and spd is really bad.

But i can agree that everything that isnt walled is gone as +2 fletchinder is extremely scary to handle as our top threats arent really the bulkiest (if you dont count mega steelix) and cant handle a stab +2 acrobatics. It can shred ho and balanced teams if it can get rid of pokemon that wall or possibly destroy fletchinder.

Just some mixed feelings, i could go with or without the rise.

 

[Aberforth]

Thing is though, first of all, hoopa is unlikely to be at full hp and can be revenged after 2 life orb hits + rocks.

252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hoopa: 204-241 (67.7 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Also mega camel doesn't wall it at all, 2 acros will probably kill mega rupt after rocks so it cannot switch in and at +2 it dies to acro after rocks (for the record I'm mostly referring to the faster version of the tank set, 168 hp evs). All the other mons you mentioned a) hate taking burns to the face, b) have no reliable recovery, c) are relatively easy for the fletchinder user to support.

Scarf tyrantrum does hurt it, but doesn't want to switch in on wisp for fear of being neutered, and is relatively easy to cover for fletch cause mega lix is so good and other answers like Bronzong are good cause of mega obama.

The stealth rock line is more meant as a matter of in comparison to other metas, when there is more switching, in the current meta the stealth rock weakness is not as bad.

 

[Thatwackycruton]

Hey so can we get Fletchinder to rise from A to A+.

Hoopa dropping into the tier has been one of the best possible things that could have happened to Fletchinder, as it has resulted in a rise of offensive playstyles, which fletchinder does fantastically against, as well as the rise of a bunch of pursuit trappers minismogbird beats, as well as the fact that Hoopa loses to it too. Its checks are easy to prepare for by partnering it with other good mons like Mega Lix and even the things that check it hate switching in for fear of eating a burn to cripple them. On top of that, pretty much all the metagame shifts in the last few months have been favourable to it, with mega aboma, sharpedo, absol, and venusaur all dropping, all of whom support the hummingbird fantastically while also creating a meta even more favourable for Fletchinder by promoting fighting types that lose to it and lowering the viability of some of the mons that give it most trouble. The only unfavourable drops have been Manectric, Aggron, Aero and Diancie, none of whom enjoy switching in to potentially eat a burn, and are generally well prepared for by the rest of the meta.

On top of this, its rock weakness doesn't hinder it as much as it has in the past due to the increasingly offensive metagame meaning it has to switch around less than it would in a slower metagame. And its not like its impossible to build a team with good hazard support either.

As a result, I see Fletch being more viable than the likes of mega glalie and quilfish, and on par with the likes of Diancie and Virision, and would like to see this reflected in the rankings.

I'm pretty neutral toward a fletch rise, so I'm just gonna comment on this.

On the whole, the drops were definitely beneficial for fletch. However, almost never before has something come along that can hard wall Fletchinder as well as Diance. Mostly, heal bell getting rid of burns is a killer for fletchling, as a even counters Alomamola and Mlix hate burns. Diance, however, can shrug them off without a second thought. Aero, while hating burns, is still another offensive check fletch has to deal with on top of tyrantrum. A 4x Stealth Rock weakness, while not as crippling as it was prior, is still a 4x stealth rock weakness that needs to be dealt with accordingly. Finally, Aqua Jet, while uncommon, is still available on Sharpedo. (I'd also like to comment that I do know that steel wing is available on fletch to bait diance)

However, I have used Fletchling extensively and can say that it absolutely stomps (flaps?) all over offense, and actually is still not a dead weight against balance, spreading burns and still being able to crank up the pressure late game. Furthermore, I can agree that it's better than qwilfish in most regards and a hell of a lot better than Mega Glailie. Whether it's on par with the might of Virizion is debatable, however. But yeah, with offense on the rise and Fletch preying on that, I can see it rising or staying put.

 

[lighthouses]

I mean, heal bell has 8 pp, and diancie being burned on the switch has to click either heal bell or rocks, if it clicks heal bell then it's a guaranteed switch-in to any scary wallbreaker(we have a ton of those now), and if it clicks stealth rock then it gets worn down, inviting stoise/spdef gon in, both of which can either clear hazards or further wear Diancie down. My point is that fletchinder can still get around every single one of its checks(hardest one being phys def refresh blastoise which wasnt even mentioned i dont think) so yeah, although i don't think that fletchinder is as broken as it used be, not thaaaat much changed either, even if you guys decide that it shouldnt be s rank(someone should definitely nominate it!!) it shouldnt drop.
And aero is just as mediocre of a check as anything we already had

 

[atomicllamas]

Thinking fletchinder is or ever was broken is a meme right?

 

[lighthouses]

No, and i thought stupid one liners werent a thing that should be posted here.

 

[tehy]

No, and i thought stupid one liners werent a thing that should be posted here.

yeah, all it does is unleash a ridiculously powerful priority you can't juke by clicking sub, cripple most counters, be deceptively fat...

the fact that it's a primarily anti-offense mon that requires dedicated stops on stall should really tell you something.

 

[atomicllamas]

I was gonna respond to this when I got to a computer anyways, and spirit didn't even edit the post quoting it so I'll just undelete it.

No, and i thought stupid one liners werent a thing that should be posted here.

The rule isn't about one liners, its about posting contentless posts, while its true my post is an example of one of these, another prime example of this is:

I mean, heal bell has 8 pp, and diancie being burned on the switch has to click either heal bell or rocks, if it clicks heal bell then it's a guaranteed switch-in to any scary wallbreaker(we have a ton of those now), and if it clicks stealth rock then it gets worn down, inviting stoise/spdef gon in, both of which can either clear hazards or further wear Diancie down. My point is that fletchinder can still get around every single one of its checks(hardest one being phys def refresh blastoise which wasnt even mentioned i dont think) so yeah, although i don't think that fletchinder is as broken as it used be, not thaaaat much changed either, even if you guys decide that it shouldnt be s rank(someone should definitely nominate it!!) it shouldnt drop.
And aero is just as mediocre of a check as anything we already had

"Someone should nominate Fletchinder for S rank even though I'm too lazy to do it myself, cause its broken xD," (seriously people posting someone else should nom x for x rank is like my pet peeve, lol). Not only is this thread not the place to discuss whether or not a pokemon is broken (NP thread is for that), but the fact that one of your real posts had only slightly more content than an intentional shit post of mine should be an indication that something is wrong there.

yeah, all it does is unleash a ridiculously powerful priority you can't juke by clicking sub, cripple most counters, be deceptively fat...

the fact that it's a primarily anti-offense mon that requires dedicated stops on stall should really tell you something.

"Ridiculously powerful" as in it fails to OHKO most offensive mons that aren't weak to its STAB and "deceptively fat" as in it gets OHKOed by neutral STABs from offensive mons in return and has bulk on par with Sneasel? It can "cripple most counters" if you predict correctly or sack it in the process. Like in a typical battle you come in against say Venusaur (after sacking something or a volt turn cause you can't switch into that), and they have a Rhyperior in the back, you could Acro predicting the Sludge Bomb (OHKO) but if they switch to Rhyp you made 0 progress (you can stay in and wisp it but you die to their rock move anyways), you could wisp predicting Rhyperior but if they don't switch you have a dead Fletch that accomplished 0. The only counter it doesn't really need to predict in order to cripple is Mega Steelix, and even then people that are weak to Fletch can run like Stone Edge on it, besides free rocks + toxic on fletch and/or roaring it out can pretty much put it out of commision anyways.

Alomomola is broken, all it does is pass ridiculously large wishes, survive pretty much any move in the tier, cripple opposing mons with toxic or knock off, be deceptively hard to switch into thanks to scald...

JK mola's not broken, but stating pros from the smog dex and ignoring a Pokemon's flaw is just a shitty argument for a Pokemon being broken, and you seem to have confused "good" with "broken".

the fact that it's a primarily anti-offense mon that requires dedicated stops on stall should really tell you something.

The nature of stall requires you to have dedicated stops to pretty much every mon, that's how stall works. The fact that dedicated stops are so easy to fit onto stall teams, such as Alomomola, Mega Steelix, Cradily (the latter two with like heal bell togetic support maybe?). Nah but there are actually a crap ton of answers that fit on defensive teams, especially since defensive teams have the benefit of cleric support, and sure heal bell only has 8 pp, but if you are letting Fletchinder get in and wisp that many times you are either getting outplayed to shit or forgot Stealth Rocks on your team (also if you have multiple counters like mola / m lix it will be wisping multiple times per heal bell).

So yeah if you guys want to discuss how broken Fletchinder is this is the wrong thread (try the NP), but I really hope you intend on making posts that actually explore fletchinder's place in the meta game rather than the pretty weak posts made in this thread.

Edit @ below: toxic mola

Also that was mostly a joke about you using the same 4 Pokemon on every team, stall has plenty of other options like Refresh Blastoise, Diancie, bronzing (toxic), that provide other utilities to the team.

 

[tehy]

The nature of stall requires you to have dedicated stops to pretty much every mon, that's how stall works. The fact that dedicated stops are so easy to fit onto stall teams, such as Alomomola, Mega Steelix, Cradily (the latter two with like heal bell togetic support maybe?). Nah but there are actually a crap ton of answers that fit on defensive teams, especially since defensive teams have the benefit of cleric support, and sure heal bell only has 8 pp, but if you are letting Fletchinder get in and wisp that many times you are either getting outplayed to shit or forgot Stealth Rocks on your team (also if you have multiple counters like mola / m lix it will be wisping multiple times per heal bell).

So yeah if you guys want to discuss how broken Fletchinder is this is the wrong thread (try the NP), but I really hope you intend on making posts that actually explore fletchinder's place in the meta game rather than the pretty weak posts made in this thread.

none of the pokemon you mentioned are stops

they're at best shitty half-checks

proof if anyone cares

4 Atk burned Cradily Rock Slide vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Fletchinder: 218-260 (71.9 - 85.8%)
Burn it; click Roost and wait for a miss (a crit won't kill, so you're not risking much). Or just switch out and come back in later. By the way, if cradily tries to rock on fletch it can SD, which won't be fun.

+2 252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 120 HP / 136 Def Alomomola: 277-327 (55.2 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Alomomola Scald vs. 152 HP / 0 SpD Fletchinder: 144-170 (47.5 - 56.1%)

also WoW on the switch-in is a bitch

M-lix has no recovery. Personally I use Restalk Lix but I've actually lost to Fletchinder once even with it (this was to Molk btw). Restalk M-lix is the only good check out of the 3

if there were a crap ton of answer I wouldn't have said this. But Fletch, for a Pokemon whose primary STAB and most used move is a priority...really makes you teambuild around it a lot on stall.

Anyhow; Fletchinder fails to OHKO most offensive mons weak to its prio, but so does every other prio user. While it doesn't have the ability to use a stronger move in lieu of priority, its prio is still really damn strong ; the only comparable one is Sucker Punch, which at any given moment can do nothing at all. (Seriously, an SD absol sweep can be stopped short by a Sub user with a couple braincells, while an SD fletchinder sweep requires a true tank to take it on).

Sure, you have to predict to an extent, but once rhyperior is crippled, it's crippled. Same goes for shit like M-lix (And IMO edge blows anyhow, though people use it anyhow because, again, fletch is POWER).

 

[Take Azelfie]

C- ---> Unranked
I think it's pretty much clear that Charizard's only real niche is as a sun wallbreaker. But let's be honest it only fits onto one uncommon archetype and you will hardly ever find it worthwhile to put onto a team unless you just wanted to use Charizard. I can think of soo many other pokemon to abuse in this slot such as Houndoom, Emboar, Camerupt and Delphox. Also Sun teams generally have no hazard control from what I've seen so if you opponent gets up Stealth Rocks it becomes much harder to use already.

Unranked ---> C-
Kind of like the opposite of Charizard where this is like arguably the best choice as a chlorophyll abuser. Sun only got better with Venusaur as it probably the most reliable abuser but Victrebell is a powerful wallbreaker that can actually deal with Steel-types (Venu may have HP Fire but it honestly is underwhelming compared to Weather Ball. It also possesses Growth and Sleep Powder which is nice for each situation. Overall Victrebell is just a great pick for Sun teams.

 

[phantom]

if there were a crap ton of answer I wouldn't have said this. But Fletch, for a Pokemon whose primary STAB and most used move is a priority...really makes you teambuild around it a lot on stall

Since when is this even remotely true? Any stall, or even heavily defensive team, worth their marbles is going to be using a Water+Steel-type and by default that covers the standard Fletchinder set. Even outside of this, Diancie is one of the most prolific counters to the thing and an excellent Pokemon on stall, being able to OHKO with Diamond Storm through burns, get rid of said burns, take nearly little from its attacks, and set up Stealth Rock to keep it from continually coming in for free. If you're letting Fletchinder click Wisp and burn everything, then you're not doing enough and are likely getting outplayed. Even if your Alomomola and Steelix are burned, Alo can still take a +2 Acro after a burn, click Toxic, then go to Steelix as Acrobatics does nothing to Steelix. This segues into my last point, and that is at the moment Fletchinder is hit with Toxic is the moment it forfeits any idea of breaking past a defensive team because that's when its pitiful bulk becomes really exploitable due to the fact that even resisted attacks like Aromatisse's Moonblast can apply pressure to it. Quit exaggerating and making falsified claims about something you know isn't true.

 

[tehy]

Since when is this even remotely true? Any stall, or even heavily defensive team, worth their marbles is going to be using a Water+Steel-type and by default that covers the standard Fletchinder set. Even outside of this, Diancie is one of the most prolific counters to the thing and an excellent Pokemon on stall, being able to OHKO with Diamond Storm through burns, get rid of said burns, take nearly little from its attacks, and set up Stealth Rock to keep it from continually coming in for free. If you're letting Fletchinder click Wisp and burn everything, then you're not doing enough and are likely getting outplayed. Even if your Alomomola and Steelix are burned, Alo can still take a +2 Acro after a burn, click Toxic, then go to Steelix as Acrobatics does nothing to Steelix. This segues into my last point, and that is at the moment Fletchinder is hit with Toxic is the moment it forfeits any idea of breaking past a defensive team because that's when its pitiful bulk becomes really exploitable due to the fact that even resisted attacks like Aromatisse's Moonblast can apply pressure to it. Quit exaggerating and making falsified claims about something you know isn't true.

>Falsified claims

The steel + water doesn't -by default- cover fletchinder at all. One gets burned and the other can't punch through 1v1. Especially if your steel-type is fletchinder. In the scenario you described, both are getting burned, Alo took a ton of damage even after regenerator...this isn't a good look at all, if my foe has anything else I need Alo for then at the very least i'm sacrificing 1 mon (probably two)

Diancie's the exception here, though I don't think it's excellent on stall at all despite using it; no recovery, too vulnerable to whatever it's countering going with random HP steel and 6-0'ing the rest of your team. Still, Diancie is the main reason i'd leave Fletch in A+.

Toxic is quite annoying, but just to land it you've gotta get burned with a mon that doesn't want to be burned OR take a ton of damage with your Alo.

 

[phantom]

>Falsified claims

The steel + water doesn't -by default- cover fletchinder at all. One gets burned and the other can't punch through 1v1.

There is 0 way standard Fletchinder is breaking past this combination of Pokemon, so yes, by default is it aptly covered. Even Steelix on its own is capable of beating it. Just because they don't come out of the encounter completely unscathed doesn't mean it doesn't beat Fletchinder.

Especially if your steel-type is fletchinder.

lol

In the scenario you described, both are getting burned, Alo took a ton of damage even after regenerator...this isn't a good look at all, if my foe has anything else I need Alo for then at the very least i'm sacrificing 1 mon (probably two)

That's worst case scenario where you allow your opponent to outplay you and burn through everything before finally setting up a Swords Dance, even in this instance Fletchinder doesn't win. Not that it doesn't accomplish anything, but worst case scenario it's still easily beatable.

Toxic is quite annoying, but just to land it you've gotta get burned with a mon that doesn't want to be burned OR take a ton of damage with your Alo.

You need a reality check. I don't know what kind of game you're playing where you think you can always switch something in and come out on top with 0 net damage acquired and when something is capable of weakening said defensive Pokemon after going down, it's suddenly horrifically overpowered. Alomomola for instance is going to be in a lot of situations where it gets weakened or crippled by trying to beat various offensive Pokemon same applies with any other defensive mon, really.

 

[tehy]

There is 0 way standard Fletchinder is breaking past this combination of Pokemon, so yes, by default is it aptly covered. Even Steelix on its own is capable of beating it. Just because they don't come out of the encounter completely unscathed doesn't mean it doesn't beat Fletchinder.



lol



That's worst case scenario where you allow your opponent to outplay you and burn through everything before finally setting up a Swords Dance, even in this instance Fletchinder doesn't win. Not that it doesn't accomplish anything, but worst case scenario it's still easily beatable.



You need a reality check. I don't know what kind of game you're playing where you think you can always switch something in and come out on top with 0 net damage acquired and when something is capable of weakening said defensive Pokemon after going down, it's suddenly horrifically overpowered. Alomomola for instance is going to be in a lot of situations where it gets weakened or crippled by trying to beat various offensive Pokemon same applies with any other defensive mon, really.

Meant to write 'your steel-type is Steelix'

Actually, i'm playing the game where checking a single Pokemon whose primary STAB is a priority doesn't leave 2 of your mons hugely worn down and burned...??? Yes, offensive Pokemon can tear your team up, but this isn't some slow wallbreaker that offense can laugh off.

It's not -horrifically overpowered-. I'm just pointing out that it's pretty good against stall as a Pokemon whose primary stab is a freaking priority. What other Pokemon fit this label? Compare it to say, Sharpedo, a similarly anti-offense / balance mon that you can just wall with Alomomola and forget about.

Frankly, it's not that worst-case of a scenario. Fletchinder can easily come in on your fairy, or pressure your grass-type.

 

[Thatwackycruton]

So Alomamola, Diance, Toxic bronzong, Toxic Mlix, and Toxic [insert flying resistant Pokemon here] are "dedicated checks" on stall? Furthermore, offense has jolteon, tyrantrum, Aerodactyl, and Eelectross to deal with it. Also, offense doesn't need to switch into a WoW because it doesn't need to switch in at all-that's how offense works. Furthermore, people disregard SR way too much in this argument. Losing half your health switching in is definitely a big issue. Now, I'm not gonna throw fletch under the bus because a rise isn't completely unwarranted. However, saying that stall struggles with it just isn't true. Any damage can usually be healed off, and any burns cured by heal bell. Now, at first I was gonna spout off a little more about this issue, but despite majorly disagreeing with tehy I feel that he does have the right to his opinion, and if it contradicts the larger portion of the RU community, so be it.

Also, I second slayslenderdragon's nom, escpecially of Victreebell rising.