Resource VGC 16: Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer

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I was competing in the "2016 International Challenge January" WiFi tournament. The tournament features VGC 2016 rules. While I was competing, I came up against someone who has a Telepathy Dialga on his/her team with an English name. Is Telepathy Dialga actually legal for VGC 2016, because I thought the pentagon rule was in effect? I don't think it's possible to get in Gen VI. Was my opponent cheating or was he/she battling fair and square? I'd like to know.
 
I was competing in the "2016 International Challenge January" WiFi tournament. The tournament features VGC 2016 rules. While I was competing, I came up against someone who has a Telepathy Dialga on his/her team with an English name. Is Telepathy Dialga actually legal for VGC 2016, because I thought the pentagon rule was in effect? I don't think it's possible to get in Gen VI. Was my opponent cheating or was he/she battling fair and square? I'd like to know.
There was an event with HA creation trio (Palkia, Dialga, Giratina) in Japan or South Corea, where it iirrc was possible to get them with english names if you had the games language set to english. So it is legal to use.
 
There was an event with HA creation trio (Palkia, Dialga, Giratina) in Japan or South Corea, where it iirrc was possible to get them with english names if you had the games language set to english. So it is legal to use.
Alright, thanks for letting me know.
 
What's the best nature for Ferrothorn? I see Brave listed as the main option on the analysis for VGC 2015, but I would think Relaxed or Sassy would be better. I used a defensive Ferrothorn back in the B/W VGC days to great success (Relaxed; Leftovers; Gyro Ball / Power Whip / Leech Seed / Protect), but I mainly stalled things out with Leech Seed and Protect. I would expect the same type of Ferrothorn to work in this format - possibly with a Sassy nature instead to cover all the Special attacks that are prevalent among the restricted Pokémon.
 
Probably a bit of a silly question but...what exactly makes Liepard viable in this meta? I can't seem to piece together anything beyond Fake Out+Knock Off+Prankster T-wave, and surely there are other pokes that can do that? Not that I'm complaining, I love the heck out of Liepard, I just can't seem to figure out how a mega full of stupidly OP legendaries allowed it to become viable when it was a laughingstock in the regular meta.
 

Pyritie

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Probably a bit of a silly question but...what exactly makes Liepard viable in this meta? I can't seem to piece together anything beyond Fake Out+Knock Off+Prankster T-wave, and surely there are other pokes that can do that? Not that I'm complaining, I love the heck out of Liepard, I just can't seem to figure out how a mega full of stupidly OP legendaries allowed it to become viable when it was a laughingstock in the regular meta.
It gets the rare combination of fake out + encore + taunt, and it can also chunk things for lots of damage with STAB foul play. It also has access to stuff like role play and charm.
 

Demantoid

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What's the best nature for Ferrothorn? I see Brave listed as the main option on the analysis for VGC 2015, but I would think Relaxed or Sassy would be better. I used a defensive Ferrothorn back in the B/W VGC days to great success (Relaxed; Leftovers; Gyro Ball / Power Whip / Leech Seed / Protect), but I mainly stalled things out with Leech Seed and Protect. I would expect the same type of Ferrothorn to work in this format - possibly with a Sassy nature instead to cover all the Special attacks that are prevalent among the restricted Pokémon.
I usually run Brave if my item is Leftovers which makes up for the lower bulk. I run Sassy with other items mostly to avoid the 2hko from Primal Kyogre's Water Spout.
 
A few more questions:

1. Which is the preferred nature for M-Kangaskhan: Adamant or Jolly? Inner Focus is the preferred ability, right?

2. What are some counters to Xerneas besides Ho-Oh, Ferrothorn, Scizor, and Crobat?

3. How does Smeargle effectively use Follow Me when it is so incredibly frail? Assuming the opponent selects 2 attacking moves that turn, it's almost guaranteed to be KO'd, and if its Focus Sash is not intact, it will likely be KO'd from the first.
 
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Jibaku

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1. Which nature is preferred for M-Kangaskhan: Adamant or Jolly? Inner Focus is the preferred nature, right?
Both are viable but Jolly is often preferred to outrun Xerneas / Yveltal / non Mega Rayquaza

2. What are some counters to Xerneas besides Ho-Oh, Ferrothorn, Scizor, and Crobat?
Mawile, Metagross, Bronzong (who can also set up TR), Clear Smog Amoonguss. Having Tailwind + >99 speed can keep Xerneas down unless it gets its own Tailwind support. Trick Room can always be an issue, even though setting up TR in front of a +2 Xern can be challenging. Physical Groudon beats it 1v1 and PBlade ignores redirection support. Allied Helping Hand can also ensure that Fire Punch OHKOes Xerneas. Often times, preventing the initial set up is key. Liepard and Whimsicott can deter setup with the threat of Encore, but must watch out for Quick Guard support. Otherwise cheeses like Red Card, Haze, and Roar/Whirlwind can help out. Special mention to Gengar for outrunning and being able to OHKO with Sludge Bomb.


3. How does Smeargle effectively use Follow Me when it is so incredibly frail? Assuming the opponent selects 2 attacking moves that turn, it's almost guaranteed to be KO'd, and if its Focus Sash is not intact, it will likely be KO'd from the first.
Smeargle doesn't mind that happening at all. This guarantees a safe Geomancy and a safe switch in to Intimidate (Salamence) or Quick Guard (Crobat/Talonflame) support to help keep Xerneas alive for even longer. Additionally, a timely Evasion boost from Moody can really ruin people when combined with Follow Me. Furthermore, the power level in this meta is high enough for most other redirectors to be 2HKOed anyways, and Smeargle, with the help of Sash, is technically not that much frailer (despite being much lower statistically).
 
Thanks for your reply, Jibaku.

I hate to hog this thread, but I've been away from the competitive scene for awhile and am trying to build a team for regionals. I have so far: Primal Groudon, Ho-Oh, Thundurus, and M-Kangaskhan.

Here are some of the top opposing threats and my current counters to them:
  • M-Kangaskhan: burn with Ho-Oh?
  • M-Salamence: burn with Ho-Oh?
  • Xerneas: Ho-Oh
  • Primal Groudon: ???
  • Primal Kyogre: Primal Groudon, Thundurus
  • Smeargle: Taunt with Thundurus, break through Focus Sash with M-Kang
  • Talonflame: ??? - Thundurus can hit for weakness, although Talonflame is going to outspeed me and likely OHKO with a sun-boosted Fire-type move
  • Thundurus: Primal Groudon

Looks like I need a counter to Primal Groudon and Talonflame, and perhaps something to help against the Megas. Extra insurance against the ever-popular Xerneas wouldn't hurt either.

Also, I was planning on running Earthquake on Groudon as part of a DisQuake combo with Thundurus (if that's not a bad idea), so should I run a mixed set on Groudon, or purely physical? If mixed, what would be the best nature? Since I'm planning on using DisQuake, it'd be nice if whoever I add has Levitate (unlikely I'd want a 3rd Flying-type) and/or Protect.

Any suggestions on the final 2 members?

Thanks!
 
Thanks for your reply, Jibaku.

I hate to hog this thread, but I've been away from the competitive scene for awhile and am trying to build a team for regionals. I have so far: Primal Groudon, Ho-Oh, Thundurus, and M-Kangaskhan.

Here are some of the top opposing threats and my current counters to them:
  • M-Kangaskhan: burn with Ho-Oh?
  • M-Salamence: burn with Ho-Oh?
  • Xerneas: Ho-Oh
  • Primal Groudon: ???
  • Primal Kyogre: Primal Groudon, Thundurus
  • Smeargle: Taunt with Thundurus, break through Focus Sash with M-Kang
  • Talonflame: ??? - Thundurus can hit for weakness, although Talonflame is going to outspeed me and likely OHKO with a sun-boosted Fire-type move
  • Thundurus: Primal Groudon

Looks like I need a counter to Primal Groudon and Talonflame, and perhaps something to help against the Megas. Extra insurance against the ever-popular Xerneas wouldn't hurt either.

Also, I was planning on running Earthquake on Groudon as part of a DisQuake combo with Thundurus (if that's not a bad idea), so should I run a mixed set on Groudon, or purely physical? If mixed, what would be the best nature? Since I'm planning on using DisQuake, it'd be nice if whoever I add has Levitate (unlikely I'd want a 3rd Flying-type) and/or Protect.

Any suggestions on the final 2 members?

Thanks!
You forgot Rayquaza, which is kinda important. Air Lock and Waterfall makes quick work of Pdon and Ho-Oh. Thundy helps though.
Mence: Thundy is actually your best answer; Flying resist + T-Wave. Same tactic as VGC15.
Khan: Hates Pdon. Also hates T-Wave.

When I think of Khan / Talonflame / Pdon issues, my immediate thought is AV Landog. That's what we used for Khan and Talon last year and it also has some use against Pdon.
Intimidate weakens Rayquaza, though again you fear Waterfall. Landog is 100% synergetic with DisQuake. AV and a strong EQ (or perhaps, Earth Power) keeps Pdon in check, and a strong EQ helps against redirector + Xerneas.
You're downright FUCKED by Rayquaza + Primal Kyogre, but so is pretty much everything. Can't think of anything off the top of my head. Almost nothing resists Water + Flying (don't use Empoleon...).
 
You're downright FUCKED by Rayquaza + Primal Kyogre, but so is pretty much everything. Can't think of anything off the top of my head. Almost nothing resists Water + Flying (don't use Empoleon...).
I could use Dialga instead of Ho-Oh or Groudon. It resists both Kyogre's Water-type attacks and Dragon Ascent.
 
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Cresselia~~

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How to counter/ check Palkia?
Everytime opposing team has Palkia, I lose.

My team: P Kyogre, Thundurs, Landorus T, Xerneas, Kanga, Whimsicott.
 

Mizuhime

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How to counter/ check Palkia?
Everytime opposing team has Palkia, I lose.

My team: P Kyogre, Thundurs, Landorus T, Xerneas, Kanga, Whimsicott.
i'd say bring whimsicott but it's not quite that simple while assuming a few things, also your team doesn't really show me enough to help you with the solution. Guessing your Thundurus is relatively bulky, you could para it and take it on with Kanga/Whim after the fact. Another option is switch something on your team to Ferrothorn and focus more on keeping that Ferro out of the sun by using maybe something like Role Play on Thundurus.
 

Cresselia~~

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i'd say bring whimsicott but it's not quite that simple while assuming a few things, also your team doesn't really show me enough to help you with the solution. Guessing your Thundurus is relatively bulky, you could para it and take it on with Kanga/Whim after the fact. Another option is switch something on your team to Ferrothorn and focus more on keeping that Ferro out of the sun by using maybe something like Role Play on Thundurus.
Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
- Protect

Landorus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Knock Off
- Superpower

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Double-Edge
- Drain Punch
- Crunch

Thundurus @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt
- Role Play

Whimsicott @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe
- Worry Seed
- Knock Off
- Taunt
- Protect

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Geomancy
- Grass Knot
- Protect
 
Anyone have good EV spreads for Calm Thundurus, Jolly Assault Vest Landorus-T, and physical-based MixQuaza?

For that matter, which of these Rayquaza would better do the job as a physical-based mix? I had planned on running Naive, but out of the 2 in Theorymon's giveaway thread, the Hasty one has better IVs for the job.
Hasty, 30/31/29/31/31/31
-or-
Naive, 31/27/31/31/31/31
 

Psynergy

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Calm Thundurus has a lot of options for EV spreads, especially if you're running Sitrus Berry. That one is hard to recommend since you'll usually EV it to hit specific benchmarks that you want to survive. One notable benchmark is 252 HP / 84+ SpD to guarantee LO Draco Meteor from 4 SpA Mega Rayquaza doesn't OHKO you though. I'm sure someone else can offer better advice on that one.

Assault Vest Landorus-T already survives spread max power Eruption in the sun from Timid Groudon as well as spread +2 Dazzling Gleam from Timid Xerneas, so you can get away with a regular 252 Att / 252 Spe spread. +2 Moonblast and anything from Kyogre will OHKO you anyway (aside from Ice Beam if under Strong Winds). 212 SpD EVs survive +2 Moonblast from Timid Xerneas, but that's a lot of Speed or Attack you'd have to give up so I wouldn't really recommend it.

Rayquaza should basically always run 252 Att / 4 SpA / 252 Spe on mixed sets, the stuff that Draco Meteor/Fire move/Earth Power all hit don't need investment to hit hard if you're running Life Orb because base 180 SpA is so high anyway. Naive and Hasty are both perfectly viable, Naive lets you take physical hits better, such as Kangaskhan Double-Edge (you can still possibly be KOed after LO depending on rolls though) and Weavile Icicle Crash under Strong Winds, while also taking less from priority moves. On the other hand Hasty can handle Fire and Water moves from the Primals better which is useful since it's the best thing that can check to both at once, and it's got about an 87.5% chance to survive spread Dazzling Gleam from unboosted Timid Xerneas even after one round of Life Orb recoil. The difference ultimately isn't significant enough for one nature to be strictly better because Dragon Ascent drops and Life Orb recoil throw those calcs off, though between those two the Hasty one has the important Attack IV you need.
 
Calm Thundurus has a lot of options for EV spreads, especially if you're running Sitrus Berry. That one is hard to recommend since you'll usually EV it to hit specific benchmarks that you want to survive. One notable benchmark is 252 HP / 84+ SpD to guarantee LO Draco Meteor from 4 SpA Mega Rayquaza doesn't OHKO you though. I'm sure someone else can offer better advice on that one.

Assault Vest Landorus-T already survives spread max power Eruption in the sun from Timid Groudon as well as spread +2 Dazzling Gleam from Timid Xerneas, so you can get away with a regular 252 Att / 252 Spe spread. +2 Moonblast and anything from Kyogre will OHKO you anyway (aside from Ice Beam if under Strong Winds). 212 SpD EVs survive +2 Moonblast from Timid Xerneas, but that's a lot of Speed or Attack you'd have to give up so I wouldn't really recommend it.

Rayquaza should basically always run 252 Att / 4 SpA / 252 Spe on mixed sets, the stuff that Draco Meteor/Fire move/Earth Power all hit don't need investment to hit hard if you're running Life Orb because base 180 SpA is so high anyway. Naive and Hasty are both perfectly viable, Naive lets you take physical hits better, such as Kangaskhan Double-Edge (you can still possibly be KOed after LO depending on rolls though) and Weavile Icicle Crash under Strong Winds, while also taking less from priority moves. On the other hand Hasty can handle Fire and Water moves from the Primals better which is useful since it's the best thing that can check to both at once, and it's got about an 87.5% chance to survive spread Dazzling Gleam from unboosted Timid Xerneas even after one round of Life Orb recoil. The difference ultimately isn't significant enough for one nature to be strictly better because Dragon Ascent drops and Life Orb recoil throw those calcs off, though between those two the Hasty one has the important Attack IV you need.
Thank you! That was very helpful. My Thundurus currently has a Lum Berry (Sitrus on Ho-Oh). I ran the numbers on Thundurus vs. M-Rayquaza's LO Draco Meteor myself, and according to the Pokémon Showdown Damage Calculator, it actually needs 92 SpD EVs (at level 50).

I think I will go ahead and use the Hasty Rayquaza, as I have Intimidate support from Landorus-T to help cover the Defense drop.
 
Good EV spread for fast, timid but bulky Thundurus?
Is bulky Xerneas viable at all?
Bulky Xerneas has some viability. A lot of people prefer Timid just to outspeed as much as possible pre-Geo and when the opponent has up Tailwind as well, especially outspeeding the primals. However having the bulk to not fear being OHKO'ed by anything can certainly be nice to have, so feel free to try it.
 

Mattapod

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i only lurk a little here and i hope its the right place to ask..

how long before we can expect to see vgc16 analyses in the strategy dex? in the mean time, where can I go to see info like that for suggested EV spreads?
 
i only lurk a little here and i hope its the right place to ask..

how long before we can expect to see vgc16 analyses in the strategy dex? in the mean time, where can I go to see info like that for suggested EV spreads?
We actually already have one for Mawile up :) The VGC analyses are being worked on here, where you can see the sets we are planning to put on the analyses, at least for the Pokemon that currently have an analysis in progress (bear in mind that some of the sets might be changed before its uploaded). It will probably take some time before we get a decent amount of analyses up on the dex, expect there to be significantly more up in like a month
 

Jibaku

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Depends on what Kyurem you want to run. Modest if you're Scarf so Ice Beam can 2HKO Xerneas (and really...there are like almost no other scarfers in this meta, and it already outruns Smeargle). Timid otherwise. Quiet is viable too for TR Kyurem-W.
 
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