ORAS UU Viability Rankings V4

[Threw]

Another person suggested this earlier and I supported it but it went nowhere lol. I agree with what BB said and would like to add that this mon has AMAZING synergy with Gyarados and is our only usable physical offensive Grass-type, which on top of its typing makes it beat stuff like Blissey and Empoleon which is cool. It even switches in on like offensive Emp and even non-Specs Kyurem and just about any non-super effective special attack cuz its special D is phenomenal. And of course, we can't forget about the defensive Taunt set DaSpoofy used so well.

 

[ict]

I'm wanting to nominate Tentacruel for A- rank!
I think that Tentacruel is not placed correctly in B+ since it's one of the most consistent spinner in the meta and doesn't actually take up a Mega Slot like Mega-Blastoise does. Tentacruel with its precise Water/Poison type makes it pretty valuable in the current meta while checking the amount of fire/fighting and water threats there are right now and either spin or set up his own hazards in Toxic Spikes. The potential of being either defensive or offensive is pretty neat as it sometimes can overwhelm SOME Pokemon like Krookodile or other Pokemon that think that they're safe and faster than Tentacruel. It actually can also make a nice offensive spinner on offense having a decent speed stat in 100 Base, precisely this conditions makes i't very threatening and can easily own unprepared Pokemon!
So yeah TENTACRUEL THE CORE SHREDDER FOR A-!​

 

[NananaBatman]

The building is your core

 

[Pak]

I'd like to nominate Heracross for a drop from A- -> B+. Simply put, Heracross' viability has suffered with the popularity of checks/counters such as Salamence (1st in usage), Zapdos (2nd), Florges (4th), and Gyarados (11th). Based on the most recent ladder usage stats, about 72% of Heracross run a choice item whether it is scarf or band. With all of the previously mentioned mons resisting the beetle's dual stabs, there is a nagging reluctance for the user to lock into Heracross' most powerful moves. If locked into either close combat or megahorn and your opponent switches into one of the previously mentioned pokemon, there is a massive momentum shift as your opponent essentially has a free turn. Gyarados and Salamence, two of the most frightening set up sweepers in the tier if they carry dragon dance, greatly appreciate set up fodder in the form of a choice locked resisted attack in order to potentially sweep or punch holes in the opposing team. Florges also enjoys a free chance to start setting up calm minds while Zapdos can potentially defog if needed, fire off a free powerful attack, or even gain momentum in the form of volt switch or doubling. Heracross still has it's uses as a wall breaker or cleaner if well-played but the recent meta shifts simply have not been kind to it and frankly it deserves to drop down a rank.

 

[Kink]

I'd like to nominate Heracross for a drop from A- -> B+. Simply put, Heracross' viability has suffered with the popularity of checks/counters such as Salamence (1st in usage), Zapdos (2nd), Florges (4th), and Gyarados (11th). Based on the most recent ladder usage stats, about 72% of Heracross run a choice item whether it is scarf or band. With all of the previously mentioned mons resisting the beetle's dual stabs, there is a nagging reluctance for the user to lock into Heracross' most powerful moves. If locked into either close combat or megahorn and your opponent switches into one of the previously mentioned pokemon, there is a massive momentum shift as your opponent essentially has a free turn. Gyarados and Salamence, two of the most frightening set up sweepers in the tier if they carry dragon dance, greatly appreciate set up fodder in the form of a choice locked resisted attack in order to potentially sweep or punch holes in the opposing team. Florges also enjoys a free chance to start setting up calm minds while Zapdos can potentially defog if needed, fire off a free powerful attack, or even gain momentum in the form of volt switch or doubling. Heracross still has it's uses as a wall breaker or cleaner if well-played but the recent meta shifts simply have not been kind to it and frankly it deserves to drop down a rank.

I support this drop. While Heracross can still be very effective with the proper support in pivot options and reliable switch outs, its ability to splash a dedicated move has decreased significantly enough that it's no longer the go-to fighting-type on most teams. Gyarados's recent entry and prevalence doesn't do much to help Heracross either. In any case, there's not much I can say that won't just be a rehash of Pak, but yeah, I'm ok with B+, it just feels so right.

 

[dodmen]

First and foremost, Alakazam is in New Pokemon rank. Also welcome Pearl to the team :D

Changes:

Mega Abomasnow: B+ to B
Alomomola: B to B+
Infernape: B+ to A-
Chandelure: A- to B+. I know this just fell to A- recently but the metagame is just so terrible for it. Every Beedrill and Sceptile is running Jolly/Timid, Cobalions are running Stone Edge, offensive Suicune is becoming a thing, and it's gotten worse with basically every recent drop.
Shuckle: C+ to B-
Venusaur: C+ to C
Virizion: C to C+

Nominations:

Mega Blastoise: A to A-. Brutal against bulky offense and pretty good against HO, but not too great against balance where Florges and Suicune thrive and it has to Spin more than one time in a game. It's still very good, but harder to use and arguably less rewarding than most A mons. Definitely hurt by everything in the 80-90 Speed tier running Jolly/Timid.
Toxicroak: A to A-. Simply not good enough to be in A (and maybe not even good enough for A-?), especially with Infernape there.
Heracross: A- to B+. Definitely agree with this one, see two posts above.

Doublade: B+ to B. Pretty much does one useful thing which is countering Cobalion, before it gets walled by a Sableye, Salamence, Zapdos, etc. Even Gardevoir and Zam do way too much damage.
Entei to S: This is a pretty controversial one, but many people in the ranking team feel that Entei deserves to be S rank. One one hand, it provides great wallbreaking along with insane team support, as forcing a burn onto its switchins like Hydrei, Salamence, non-ST Suicune and Snorlax, and Alomomola is huge in somewhat neutering each of these threats in a different way, whether it's forcing these Pokemon to recover and getting free switches or getting passive damage and pressure that helps teammates break through them. On the other hand, it's not quite as "metagame defining" as the top three Pokemon right now (I'd argue that Suicune is actually more metagame defining), and has its fair share of individual counters as well as a plethora of checks.

Tornadus is definitely a threat, but not really consistent enough to rise above where it is in B+ now. Held off on Nidoking and Umbreon, although Umbreon rising is definitely a possibility sometime.

 

[ict]

I think we're being a little unfair to Heracross right now; just because some of its set aren't stellar in the meta shouldn't be enough for it to drop a rank. If choiced sets aren't good in the meta, then don't use choiced sets, simple as that. If anything, people should be using status orb Heracross, which is a lot more effective at killing shit (also, it lets it not be setup fodder for mence/gyara). Sure, the status drops heracross' survivability down a fair bit, but it's not like people should expect Heracross to live forever.

-1 252 Atk Guts Heracross Facade (140 BP) vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 179-211 (50.7 - 59.7%) -- 84.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (the calc is roughly the same for Salamence).

Florges gets cleanly 2hko'd, and even max/max zapper has a good shot at getting 2hko'd. None of the mons you mentionned get a "free" switch in vs orb hera, so I think it's kinda unfair to call it set up fodder.

I don't particularly care if Heracross gets knocked down to B+, as long as the reasonning behind it is sound. The meta is indeed not friendly to it, but let's not drop stuff just because people can't use it right :(

 

[Bouff]

already stated my opinion on entei in the pm and i dont feel too strongly about hera and stoise but i have a few other ones


i think p2 is definitely b+ material. while teams are more prepared for it than they were a few months back, being a blanket answer to stuff like aero, mence, gyara, the nidos, specs chandy, etc. is definitely a good niche to have, making it splashable on a lot of teams. it does pretty well at checking zam as well, although it doesnt like lo variants as much since focus blast does around 50-60% to avg p2 spreads. while cobal is extremely common right now and being susceptible to knock off always sucks, i think it has notable advantages over other fatmons like cress and lax used to check offensive threats right now, mainly having much better recovery than both of them.

esca could probably move up to b+ as well, especially now that zam is a thing. being one of the most reliable answers to kyurem is a big thing in this metagame rn, and being a good answer to fat psychics, fairies, and offensive grasses is also a good reason to run it atm, since you're not really getting much else like that in one slot, especially since most defensive cores comprise of fat psychic / fairy / water or steel, both of which don't really like a strong megahorn and knock off save for cobal.

 

[DaSpoofy]

​

To be honest, I was half way through writing up how Entei should stay A+ rank and realized that I was just strengthening the argument for Entei being S rank. I have a lot of experience with Entei. YABO once joked about how I can't make a team without Empoleon or Entei on it. The truth is that Entei is really good. It is good to the point where I wish it was banned. It is not broken for the most part, it is just a annoying team-building constriction. Since I can't make an argument against it, I am going to give you guys an overview of what Entei is and it's roles in the meta. After that, you can decide on what you think about Entei. Personally, I think its just a top tier A+ pokemon.

Pros:​

• Entei has few safe switch ins
• Entei out-speeds 86 and below with Adamant Nature
• Entei is naturally bulky
• Entei Resists common attacks
• Entei has powerful priority and coverage attacks
• Entei is very splashable

As many of you may know, Entei's most attractive attribute is Sacred Fire. It is one thing to prepare for a physical fire attack, and it is another thing to prepare to be burnt after that attack. Not only does this mean that a switch in takes more damage after that attack, it also means the switch in has its attack cut in half. Pokemon like Mega Swampert, Tyrantrum, and Mega Aerodactyl are not good switch ins because of that burn. This puts a real damper on building a team that can handle Entei well. Entei is fairly good against stall even with the Alomomola and Salamence on that stall team. The burn pressures the survivability of that pokemon.

Entei is faster than timid Rotoms and below. Most common wall-breakers are in the speed range of 239-295 while Entei is sitting at 299. This wouldn't be as big as a deal if these wall-breakers weren't KO'd by Entei in one hit, but they are. Heracross, Toxicroak, Mamoswine, Chandelure, and Hoopa all die. Entei's natural bulk allows it to come in on these wall breakers as well as the walls itself breaks. Florges is as popular as ever. If you build your Entei team right, you will have a switch for scald in the form of Heliolisk, Empoleon, Shaymin or something else. These pokemon set up hazards or gain momentum against the opposing team. This turns into some crazy mind games for the opposing team. I can't tell you how many times I sacred fire a suicune twice. Sometimes I catch a Sceptile or a Florges on the double and if I get it wrong, you take 60 from scald and will probably have that suicune burnt.

Since Entei is a switch in for common attacks, provides incredible wall breaking and revenge killing potential, and has powerful priority, it becomes rather easy to fit on a team. There are many creative ways to take care of the things that want to switch into Entei. I believe the reign of Suicune really is the cause to why this tier has adapted to bulky water types so well. I take advantage of the bulky water type switch by going out into Empoleon or Dragalge and setting up hazards. These pokemon have phasing moves if the water type wants to set up a Calm Mind. Heliolisk and Whimi take the water type attacks and act as a great pivot. These pokemon not only have defensive synergy but they have awesome offensive synergy too. This is why Entei is so splashable.

​

Cons:

• Entei is slower than its revenge killers
• Entei has one effective set
• Entei is prepared for by most teams
• Entei is weak to hazards
• Entei has low PP moves

A big problem with Entei is its predictability. Entei has one set and (generally) one item. Of course, there are exceptions. I used flame plate entei for a SD baton pass team because I needed something that couldn't be burnt but also could take advantage of the plus two. I used Life Orb entei on teams that have the resistances that Entei provides already covered so the health loss isn't a big deal and the freedom of move choice was needed. Without choice band, Entei is pretty weak. It doesn't break walls as good as it should. CB is the best way to go and it is going to be predictable. Teams are going to prepare for Entei. Lum berry dragon types set up on Entei. Bulky water types will be nice switch ins. I like setting up rocks with Mega Camerupt. There will be a lot of common revenge killers floating around in UU for Entei. The ones I see a lot are Krookodile, Mega Aero, and Salamence. Since Entei is cursed with Adamant nature for life, it will be slower than these pokemon.

Being a choiced pokemon and being weak to Stealth Rocks kinda sucks. You have to keep switch out and you don't have recovery. All the health that is lost will be permanent for the rest of the game. This limits Entei's ability to be a switch in for common pokemon. It is nice not being able to be burnt, but Entei still can be toxiced, paralyzed, and hurt by all forms of hazards. Not only is Entei's health on the line, but so is its PP. This isn't a big problem for most pokemon but it is for Entei. Sacred Fire, Extreme Speed, and Stone Edge sit at a measly 8 pp. Combine this with the pressure users in the tier and you have a PP problem. Stall can take advantage of this and eventually make a threat no more. The biggest problem I see this for is extreme speeding to clean up late game. There are Beedrills using protect and pressure Suicunes doing their toll. It is pretty sad when a pokemon is prone to running out of PP because it is generally useless for the jobs it needs to accomplish at that point.
​

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Well, what do you think? Does Entei sound like the kind of pokemon you would find in S rank? If I had to give an answer right now, I would say no. This is mostly due to Entei being so predictable. With time I might decide it is S rank worthy. In fact, a few months ago, I made an argument to why Entei should be S rank. Thanks for reading! Have a nice day.​

 

[Christo]

Entei is sort of the opposite of "splashable". A splashable Pokemon is one that can fit on a team with low risk and have considerable defensive utility. With a weakness to Stealth Rock in conjunction with its only defense utility is switching into Florges' moonblast once or twice, that would not define as Splashable.

I don't know about you, but when I am building a team I very rarely say "Entei fits perfectly here!(As opposed to the rest of the S rank mons)"

 

[DaSpoofy]

Entei is sort of the opposite of "splashable". A splashable Pokemon is one that can fit on a team with low risk and have considerable defensive utility. With a weakness to Stealth Rock in conjunction with its only defense utility is switching into Florges' moonblast once or twice, that would not define as splashable.

I don't know about you, but when I am building a team I very rarely say "Entei fits perfectly here!(As opposed to the rest of the S rank mons)"

I am going to have to disagree with you. I do find myself wanting a priority user that is faster than common wall breakers and can resist a fairy type attack. Entei has nice defensive utility with its natural bulk and resistances to mamos ice moves, whimis and florges monnblasts, iron head from cobalion, and much more. Entei can take stabbed attacks pretty well that arnt super effective. Being weak to rocks hinders it but it does not make it anything less than splashable. We have some splashable flying types.

 

[ehT]

Hi everyone I'm back​

I don't have much to say about Entei that hasn't been said so I won't touch on that (haven't been paying that much attention the meta since I've backed away from mons -- Chandelure in B+ hello?), but I have a few things to say about our new friend Alakazam.

It's really living up to the hype, from what I've seen. It's just as much of a beast as it was before it left. We all know how strong it is and how fast it is; 135 SpAtk, 120 Speed, and no-drawback LO (or Sash I guess, but meh) speak for itself. But I think what really drives it home is its movepool. You never know if it's gonna be running Taunt, Encore, CM (my personal favorite, what with all the switches it forces), TWave, Shadow Ball, Tbolt, Energy Ball / GKnot, DGleam, Focus Blast, HP Ice, shit even Knock Off of you really want. It's stupid how many options this thing has, and it's honestly a menace to switch into, for any playstyle. He runs into trouble against standard anti-offence measures, e.g. Scarfers, priority, Pursuit users (Now that I mention it I can see Pursuit Aero making a comeback because of this thing), etc, but any well-built offence team is aptly prepared for this sort of thing, and these drawbacks, IMO, are more than made up for by Zam's power, versatility, and utility.

All that said it shouldn't come as a surprise that I think Zam deserves a starting A+ Rank, or at the lowest, high A Rank.

 

[Cheryl.]

I think we all saw THIS one coming:

Escavalier for B+

Escavalier is amazing in this new meta. He's one of the most consistent Alakazam answers out there (Unless HP Fire o_o) while still providing a great offensive presence for your team. He's such a great glue for balanced and bulky offensive teams due to his amazing typing and bulk, letting it wall popular mons like Mega Sceptile, the aforementioned Alakazam, Fairy-types, etc. It can Pursuit trap them too for some nice chip damage that can really help in the long run, or just smack stuff with Megahorn and Iron Head, or add Knock Off support to the team! It can do so much for a team while not losing that much momentum! Sadly, Escavalier does come with some problems as well. It's quite slow, meaning it doesn't fit very well on more offensive teams, and the 4x weakness to Fire isn't too nice considering the popularity of stuff like Infernape and Entei lately, or the opponent can run an HP Fire lure to take advantage of Escavalier. It's also prone to getting worn down by hazards if you're not running RestTalk or something like that. But overall, the sheer amount of defensive and offensive prowess Escavalier brings to a team, along with his checking of some very big threats in the tier, let him have enough merit to rise imo.

 

[Highways]

Mega Abomasnow from B to B+/A-
Mega Abomasnow is a impressive wallbreaker in UU Metagame. Look that set:
Abomasnow @ Abomasite
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 8 HP / 68 Atk / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
Mild Nature
- Blizzard
- Seed Bomb
- Ice Shard
- Focus Blast

That set is awesome! Nothing can enter with security on the ground... Let me show some calcs...

252+ SpA Mega Abomasnow Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Cobalion: 382-450 (117.9 - 138.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

84 Atk Mega Abomasnow Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 152-182 (37.6 - 45%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, hail damage, and Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Mega Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 201-237 (56.9 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, hail damage, and Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Mega Abomasnow Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 228-268 (66.2 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and hail damage

And more, Mega President Snow has a priority! Let's see it...

84 Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 128-152 (39.3 - 46.7%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and hail damage

84 Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Beedrill: 118-141 (43.5 - 52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and hail damage

-1 84 Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 192-228 (58 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and hail damage

84 Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 288-340 (87 - 102.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

84 Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 134-162 (44.5 - 53.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and hail damage

So... It has a powerful priority stab, a perfect coverage move that can kill Steel Types, and two extremely powerful Stabs, one of them can't miss in Hail. few Pokémon can safely enter it, like Doublade, Porygon2, Fire Types and Etc...

 

[spuds4ever]

^ bro, aboma was literally just moved down from B+, I think there are plenty of reasons why it's not as good as stuff like lucario, crobat, cresselia, cruel, or chandelure even but am lazy and have other agendas atm so might post something rational if president obama-snow gets some more support.

Entei to S: So I really disagree with this move tbh. I think if anything, entei has gotten worse since the last tier shift. Sure, it's got decent bulk and whatnot but this is pretty useless when you consider that it can only switch into fairies or defensive roserade (which is an ass set but I'll come to that in a mo). Even weak STAB moves really give it trouble, uninvested cobalion CC 2hkoes it after SR. On top of this, look at the mons in S, all of them are notoriously hard to counter, as well as sitting in better speed tiers than entei and having pretty much the same bulk if not better (intimidate mence) and hella lot more useful resistances/immunities. Entei is completely curbstomped by crocune for example all the time (even limits its spammable STAB move to 4 uses on the switch) because entei has only a single set whereas all the other S mons have a myriad of other options to utilise (mence is literally the most versatile mon in the tier). I feel that it needs a lot more support than any other S mons and provides much more limited utility than any of them as well, tbh, I think even A+ is pushing it for entei.

I have a few other nominations (of which I will only post one atm because I should be writing an essay):

Beedrill down from A+: I had a massive rant about how beedrill really needs to get its ass out of A+ ages ago and I've played a lot with it too recently and honestly, even when its whole team is based around making it work, it still pretty mediocre. I'll try and be concise here but here's what beedrill needs to function properly:
-A constant hazard advantage including spikes and stealth rock up and rocks off its own side as some of its counters are immune to spikes and others take jack from SR.
-A way of coming in safely and frequently so it can get free chip damage off which is pretty m the name of the game and thus practically means you need to be running heavy volturn.
-A win condition that will actually sweep and take advantage of the chip damage that beedrill supposedly causes (this is one of my biggest qualms as nearly every priority move zans vacuum wave and mamo's shard will OHKO this nigga even if you keep him on really high health meaning he can't clean and lol, he is not sweeping a stall team ever)
-Really strong support for his stall match up which is shockingly poor.

Honestly, I would argue that he doesn't even cut it for A-, I think putting him on par with mega absol (having used both pretty extensively) is very fair but at least for the love of God take him out of a cut with really good mons like coba, gyarados and megapert.

 

[freezai]

Meloetta. B rank.
Meloetta deserves a whole lot more time in the spotlight then it currently gets. Along with it being a solid Alakazam check, Meloetta is in general underrated and somehow wallowing in the depths of C-rank. I mean seriously, its usage is less than 1% but it can drop base 128 nukes and still has 100/77/128 bulk, huge for an offensive pokemon (not to mention it can function defensively as well.) The specs set is the one I've been using and it is an absolute cannon. Its stab combination of hyper voice and Psyshock along with Focus Blast has near perfect coverage 2hkoing literally everything bar stuff like Bronzong and Doublade (I run 4th move shadow ball but you may prefer trick or something). In comparison with other specs users like PZ or gardevoir, Meloetta has one noticeable stand out: Its bulk and coverage. Compared to PZ, Meloetta has so many more switchin opportunities with its huge natural bulk. It is also threatening because STAB psyshock can hit stuff that PZ could never dream of hitting. Compared to Gardevoir, Meloetta is all around better except for the fact its not fairy typing. Meloetta switches in on neutral hits better and fires back even stronger than a specs Gardevoir could.Meloetta also has a much better speed tier than Gardevoir. Its combination of bulk, power and coverage really sets it apart from other specs users.
Furthermore, Meloetta isn't even limited to a specs set and has a huge amount of versatility associated with it. SubCM and Colbur sets can do a number to bulkier teams, specially defensive sets are possible with its movepool utility and its bulk, an AV set can be used well to deal with special attackers (It can lure and kill Hydreigon which is cool), Hell even scarf Meloetta is not out of the question.
Last but not the least, it is a solid offensive check to Alakazam as Focus Blast is a 3hko assuming no bulk Meloetta and LO Alakazam. The only real knock on Meloetta is its weakeness to pursuit and other dark moves, but that is not enough to keep it stuck in C

TLDR: Meloetta at C is a crime, its natural bulk and movepool sets it apart from other specs users and its versatility is huge. Still a huge nuke by any means with 128 spatk. Rip pursuit weakeness unfortunately.

Dank Calcs:
Specs Set:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Psyshock vs. 144 HP / 188 Def Snorlax: 237-279 (47.6 - 56.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Florges: 165-195 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 195-231 (54.1 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Meloetta Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 387-456 (54.2 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

AV set:
252 SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 160 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 138-164 (36.2 - 43%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Meloetta Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hydreigon: 312-368 (96 - 113.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Meloetta: 142-168 (41.6 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

[kokoloko]

agreeing with the person above who posted about beedrill. thing is as overrated as pokemon come, especially now that fast pursuits are flying around trying to catch alakazam. don't really want to get into details about it because the other post outlined everythign i think perfectly, but yeh i agree bee is a mediocre as fuck pkmn that doesnt deserve the rank it has atm. A- is the absolute highest it should be imo. the fact that its alongside meta-defining pokemon such as cune, gyara, and mamo makes me a bit weary of how lightly we're taking our rankings tbh.

regarding entei... as great as i think it is, it's not an S rank pokemon. its probably the most effective wallbreaker in the tier because it only needs to click one move literally any time there's no suicune on the other side AND it has late-game utility and revenge killing capabilities due to strong as fuck priority, but its not an S rank pokemon by any stretch of the imagination. every S rank pokemon has one quality that sets it aside from entei. aero and mence have roost to offset their SR weakness and hydreigon's weird speed tier is more than made up for by its amazing resists, unwallability, and access to both recovery and taunt, making it the absolute best wallbreaker in the tier.

 

[Nightingales]

Can I ask why P2 is now B-Rank? I don't remember it being discussed but I don't see how it's dropped in Viability too much.

 

[Pinkin Lark]

Why isn't Gyarados being ranked?

Look a bit closer; it's A+.

 

[kokoloko]

Can I ask why P2 is now B-Rank? I don't remember it being discussed but I don't see how it's dropped in Viability too much.

it was never that good but people are bad.

however, if anything its less bad now since its one of the only pokemon with the ability to 100% counter mence and gyara (along with a slew of other shit ofc)

 

[Adaam]

Bronzong for B+

Zonger is a stellar support mon for balance. Zam just dropping makes it even better, giving balance a way to pivot around Psychic STAB. Yeah Shadow Ball hurts, but the 4x Psychic resist is often enough to play around a Zam and switch into something like Crobat or Beedrill on the Shadow Ball or Focus Blast. Gorgeous typing + bulk + Levitate lets it blanket check so much and be one of the most reliable rockers in UU. No other mon checks Mence/CM Florges/Nido/Grasses/Aero etc in one teamslot; you'd be hard pressed to find something on a team that Bronzong does not completely neutralize. That being said, its massive Krookodile/Dark, and to a lesser extent Fire bait, which is tough since you can't set up rocks until its gone unless you want to take massive damage from Pursuit, and Gyarados gets a free Sub (HP Elec can work if you are really Gyarados weak). This weakness isn't enough to keep it out of B+, though, since every utility mon or wall has a handful of things that exploit it.

Other thoughts:

Disagree entirely on Beedrill. It's stall matchup is not poor at all since Stall has no way of touching it without Rocks. At the same time, Beedrill is spamming U-Turn and switching in on passive moves (admittedly it isn't 6-0ing it, but what does?). It can even run T-Spikes to further bolster its matchup against fat teams. It's an absolute bitch for balance builds to face since they tend to have a lot of passive members to get a free defog or spin off, and if you fail to keep rocks off for a while you basically lose since you aren't touching Beedrill otherwise (unless Pursuit Aero which has been a thing forever).

Agree on Entei to S. It is arguably the biggest threat to offense due to burn crippling literally everything that doesn't die to Sacred Fire sans Chandy and I guess RK9, both of which fold to Stone Edge. Yeah Suicune neutralizes it, but simply burning it is enough to give you free turns or leave it weakened enough to cripple its survivability.

Disagree on this dropping as well. Ice Tea summed it up for me. Band/Scarf sets are mediocre, but SD Facade throttles all of its "checks" and prevent set up from DD Flying types.

Agree on Doublade dropping to B. Its glory days and splashability are over. It's only decent on HO and semi-stall builds which need something to keep Aero and Reuni (will always be a don, Sab or no Sab), respectively, from 6-0ing them. Even then, Sableye is a more reliable counter to Reuniclus due to Shadow Ball neutrality. Way too many things abuse it now, and like dodmen said, whatever it walls simply switches out to one of its many checks (newer and very popular ones include Sab/Zapdos/Gyara)

 

[Cactrune]

I agree with the Bronzong nomination. I've been using it for a really long time now, and it works pretty well on balance due to its great mixed bulk and access to Levitate. It beats a long list of stuff, including

these mons

Mega Aerodactyl, Shaymin, Kyurem, Slurpuff, Crobat, Mamoswine, Tyrantrum, some Lucario variants, Florges, Cresselia, DD Salamence lacking Fire Blast, Nidoqueen and Nidoking lacking Fire coverage, Gardevoir, Espeon, Mega Abomasnow, and now Alakazam

That's a pretty impressive resume in this metagame, even before you consider how well Bronzong can synergize with some of UU's more popular defensive Pokemon right now, including stuff like Zapdos, Mega Ampharos, Sableye, and Tentacruel. EQ prevents it from being complete Fire-bait, and Toxic and Stealth Rock give it the ability to support a lot of teams. Bronzong's doing a great job right now, I'd definitely consider ranking it up.

 

[kokoloko]

ok but it doesn't actually beat like half of those?

shaymin drops the special d and you lose
mamo runs knock off
Florges stalls out your gyros
your gyro does like 2% to aboma
zam runs shadow ball
and lucario just kills you at +2 so idk what you're smoking saying zong beats this

 

[Highways]

I disagree - Entei S Rank. Entei has a predictable moveset, and any team is currently prepared for it... All the Water and Dragon Types in the UU metagame can resist it, and kill it later... Alomomola, Blastoise-Mega, Tentacruel, Salamence, Kingdra, Seismitoad, Swampert, Suicune, Aerodactyl-Mega and a lot of Dragon/Rock/Fyre Types... Entei has not skill to be S Rank, sorry. Oh, yeah, Entei has Low PP Moves. Sacred Fire, Stone Edge and Extreme Speed has only 8 of PP...

 

[Hogg]

Zong CAN run Heavy Slam to reliably beat Florges, though it hurts its matchup against things like Crobat, Kyurem and Mamo. Alternately it can run Iron Head, which doesn't get the 100% 2HKO on Florges but can't be stalled out via Synth, and is pretty nice for Kyurem/Abomasnow...

...but for all that, I still don't think that I'd call it B+. I love Zong but the omnipresent Sableye and the fact that it is setup bait for Gyara make it pretty niche this meta.

Also I disagree with Bee dropping. I'll write up more later but basically while I agree that a lot of the anti-Zam counter teaming also hurts Bee, I'd like to see the meta settle a bit more before we immediately drop it. If Pursuit Aero/Esca continue to be on every other team then sure, drop it down (though I'd still argue for only dropping it to A)... but often the meta overreacts to new drops for a few days, like it did when Gyara first came down last month and HP Electric was everywhere for a few days, or when Hera dropped back to UU last year and Aromatisse got a sudden (but brief) spike in usage.