Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
ok but it doesn't actually beat like half of those?
shaymin drops the special d and you lose
mamo runs knock off
Florges stalls out your gyros
your gyro does like 2% to aboma
zam runs shadow ball
and lucario just kills you at +2 so idk what you're smoking saying zong beats this
Shaymin, I agree with. That is a bit of a reach.
From full, you can still beat Mamoswine. I know that's a bit of a stretch in some ways but it can still come in on most of Mamo's moves and beat it, or at least make the player think twice before firing off any of its STAB moves.
You can run Iron head to beat Abomasnow, Florges, SubRoost Kyurem, and a bunch of other mons more easily. Definitely the preferred option in my opinion.
As for Alakazam, Life Orb 2HKOs, while Sash 3HKOs. I also don't really see that many Shadow Ball Alakazams, but I guess that's subject to change.
Also, I was using the wrong calc for Lucario. Yeah, it loses to that, sorry.
Still, its matchups aren't bad at all, and the fact that there were around 10 other threats on that list that you didn't mention demonstrates that it can still check a lot of stuff. B+ is not out of Bronzong's reach imo.
No opinion on the raise but talking about Bronzong without mentioning its offensive capabilities is a shame, that thing is a beast. Bronzong provides a really cool slot on offense that helps you out tremendously in matchups versus common headaches like Aerodactyl, Nidoqueen, Kyurem, Salamence, and to a lesser extent, Sceptile. In addition, Life Orb really makes you pack a punch with your Earthquakes and Gyro Balls, letting you OHKO Scarf Hydreigon, kill Entei after SR, and a bunch of other stuff after a bit of chip damage. Another cool trick that Bronzong teams can employ is its ability to lure out pokemon like Zapdos and Gyarados who take a truckload from Life Orb Explosion which clears the way for others like Lucario or Cobalion. I've tried to use Bronzong defensively a fair few times in the past and it always seems to provide too many free turns for my opponent while appearing to do its job (if that makes sense). However, offensive Bronzong is certainly a force to be reckoned with.
So surprisingly, Entei was also nominated for S-rank around this time on Jan. 18.
Dingbat said:
Entei for S rank: This thing is a legit threat in this meta that every single team must prepare for. Sacred fire is really fucking spammable right now (although 8pp sucks) and it's damn annoying to switch into because of how often it burns and the extra chip damage it causes when it burns (add hazard support and that chip damage becomes really hard to deal with). Overall it has multiple opportunities in most battles to sear through opposing teams with Sacred Fire and Espeed alone; dedicated counters to this thing are almost necessary against the Sacred Doge, and even then, those burns are capable of wearing down those counters too.
And Dod's reasoning for the S-Rank sounds very similar to Dingbat's albeit with a more cautious tone:
Entei to S: This is a pretty controversial one, but many people in the ranking team feel that Entei deserves to be S rank. One one hand, it provides great wallbreaking along with insane team support, as forcing a burn onto its switchins like Hydrei, Salamence, non-ST Suicune and Snorlax, and Alomomola is huge in somewhat neutering each of these threats in a different way, whether it's forcing these Pokemon to recover and getting free switches or getting passive damage and pressure that helps teammates break through them. On the other hand, it's not quite as "metagame defining" as the top three Pokemon right now (I'd argue that Suicune is actually more metagame defining), and has its fair share of individual counters as well as a plethora of checks.
just gonna post some thoughts on a couple of the current noms + make 2 of my own
Doublade: B+ to B (Disagree): Definitely disagreeing with this one. Even in the current metagame with threats to its viability such as Crawdaunt, Zapdos, and Sableye dropping, I still feel that it performs its job very well, as a Reuniclus, Snorlax, Cobalion counter. Granted that its viability has decreased quite a bit due to the aforementioned Pokemon dropping, I don't think that it has decreased that much to force it to dropping to B. Also with the drop of Gyarados I found that its a nice check to non-EQ DD sets (I do run Gyro 99.9% of the time for Dragon Dancers), and it donks pretty much every single one of them, even if its a resisted one (as with the case of Gyarados against Doublade). But yeah, keep this B+, its still a good enough Pokemon to stay there
Entei: A+ to S (On The Fence): Eh this one is hard to take a side on. Entei is obviously something that every team has to prepare for, just due to the sheer power of Choice Banded ExtremeSpeeds, Stone Edges, and Sacred Fires (which have no surefire switchins except like Rest Suicune, since nothing else wants to take a burn). But on the other hand, Entei is also purely one-dimensional, with one effective set in its Choice Band variant. Sure some could argue that Liechi Berry or Assault Vest is viable, but I'd think Choice Band is the only set it should be running. But yeah, S-rank is usually sectioned off into purely versatile Pokemon, and Entei doesn't fit this requirement.
As for noms of my own:
Alakazam to A+/S: I think Alakazam is definitely one of the best Pokemon in the current metagame right now. With an impressive 120 base speed and less use of Choice Scarfed Pokemon (still wish Jirachi was here :[), I've found myself putting a Pursuit Trapper on a lot of teams. I wouldn't call it a bad thing with the likes of Mega Beedrill around as well to Pursuit trap, but Alakazam has the potential to 6-0 a lot of teams just because of its versatility and Speed tier. I've been using a pretty neat Life Orb set myself (shoutout Ice Tea ;]), with investment in Defense to survive the likes of Entei and Doublade priority moves.
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 84 Def Alakazam: 211-249 (84 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 84 Def Alakazam: 206-246 (82 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The great thing about this small investment is that its still stronger than Focus Sash Zam, which makes it even better just to run this small investment in Defense so you survive these priority moves that max SpA investment usually wouldn't and still fire off powerful LO boosted attacks.
172 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 107-126 (28.6 - 33.6%) -- 0.3% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Alakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 87-103 (23.2 - 27.5%) -- 72.5% chance to 4HKO
But yeah, overall, insane coverage + great speed tier over other wallbreakers with little to no counters such as Hoopa, Mamoswine, Crawdaunt, etc. It also has access to very nice other options for moveslots such as Taunt, Encore, Calm Mind, Energy Ball, and T-Wave to outspeed the likes of Aero :^). I could see Alakazam being S due to its versatility at some point, but A+ at the lowest.
Mega Sceptile to A-: I don't really know when or why this dropped to B+, but gonna nom it for A- again. With the influx Water-, Electric-, and Alakazams running around, you'd think this thing would be higher on the VRs. Everyone really already knows what qualities Sceptile has (great speed, ability, typing, etc), so im gonna mention something different with the addition of Alakazam. What I've done on a couple of teams as of late is actually run Pursuit for Alakazam in one of its extra moveslots (it usually has one to work with) just to be cheeky, and its proven to be pretty effective (just needs a little Attack investment and Alakazam is obviously threatened by Leaf Storm)
204+ SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Alakazam: 255-301 (101.5 - 119.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
52 Atk Mega Sceptile Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 246-290 (98 - 115.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO (on the switch-out)
Besides the whole Zam thing, Mega Sceptile is still just a very threatening mon in general, especially in a metagame where Waters and Electrics are around and Scarfers aren't on a large majority of teams. But yeah, definitely pulling for a rise of Mega Sceptile to A- again
^
I will not run some EVs in Defense just to hold 2 moves of 2 Pokémon ._.
Did you forgot that UU has Mega Bee, Mega Aero and Mega Scept? they can KO Alakazam with ease...
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 240-283 (95.6 - 112.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 84 Def Alakazam: 297-349 (118.3 - 139%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 84 Def Alakazam: 231-273 (92 - 108.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 84 Def Alakazam: 312-368 (124.3 - 146.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill U-turn vs. 0 HP / 84 Def Alakazam: 544-644 (216.7 - 256.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball (147 BP) vs. 0 HP / 84 Def Alakazam: 229-271 (91.2 - 107.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Mega Absol Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 84 Def Alakazam: 468-552 (186.4 - 219.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Alakazam is a extreme dangerous Pokémon, but he need Sash...
as to Doublade, Entei and Mega Sceptile:
Doublade: 100% Agree with your opinion :) Entei: Entei has one only effective set, and that is extremely predictable. Every team is prepared for it ... Mega-Sceptile: Mega Sceptile has two effective sets, but they don't do trouble against some teams, only on the late game. now some Pokémon like Escavalier and Bronzong will be common to check Alakazam, and next Mega-Sceptile, so i don't think that this lizard needs to go up...
no man, zam absolutely doesnt "need" sash, and I dont think you got Shiba's point.
there are only 4 mons in UU that naturally outspeed zam and offensivwly check it, aero, scep, bee and crobat (5 if u count Noivern) and Zam will not stay in against any of those, so those calcs are irrelevant
now, lets say you opt to offensively check Zam using priority, which in theory is a legitimate option since having to pick between 4 mons (3 being megas) to check it can really restrict teambuild
well now yr fucked. with little Def investiment, Zam is able to hold its own even against SE STAB priority like Doublade Shadow Sneak WHILE STILL HITTING HARDER THAN SASH!
I mean, unless you really want Zam to take on Crobat, Aero, Scep and the uncommon Absol, Shiba just proved exactly why you dont need Sash lol
that being said, I totally support Zam for up A+, and I could see it being S, depending on how the meta adapts to it.
mega sceptile also deserves a rise. its special set is effective as ever at checking water type, and its 4th slot is open to your needs: giga, sub, mixed options like pursuit or iron tail are all legit and can lure and take out different mons, depending in what you want.
Sash doesn't just help vs those mons though, it helps check setup sweepers that have got out of control, for example a Mence you managed to weaken as it was setting up now you can one time stop thanks to sash. Pigeonholing the sash set's niche to only beating naturally faster mons is kinda unfair when another major use of it is to ensure you don't get swept by mindless offensive shit once. LO has great strength vs balance and great firepower in general, while sash improves offensive matchup. I do agree LO is usually a better fit though, although sash not getting boned as hard by pursuits can also be useful seeing as the majority of pursuit users will hesitate to switch into it. I'd be more conservative with an initial rank though, A seems fairer. I don't like its absolute lack of defensive niche which puts a heavy emphasis on teammates to cover its flaws.
It's my first time posting in a VR(And sorry for some english errors, isn't my best language lol), but i'd like to make a nomination of my own(Not that of my own because it was discuted, but... yeah);
Escavalier to B+
I'm not a active UU player, but with the little i played after Zam dropping, isn't hard to say Escavalier is very good at this meta.
Brave Shine (Escavalier) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Megahorn
- Iron Head
- Pursuit
- Drill Run / Knock Off
Escavalier is arguably the best offensive check to Alakazam in this meta, since AV Metagross take a huge chunk of Shadow Ball and every single pursuit trapper in this meta dont switches safely in Zam(Maybe Doublade and Honchkrow, but they don't want to switch in a shadow ball or Focus Blast/HP Ice). Escavalier can switch not only in Zam, but in other threats commons in offense like Mega Sceptile, Kyurem, Roserade, Shaymin and Beedrill(Beware of Knock Off).
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psychic vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 62-74 (18 - 21.5%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 112-133 (32.6 - 38.7%) -- 98.6% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 75-90 (21.8 - 26.2%) -- 6.1% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 37-43 (10.7 - 12.5%) -- possible 8HKO
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 91-108 (26.5 - 31.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 48-57 (13.9 - 16.6%) -- possible 7HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 39-46 (11.3 - 13.4%) -- possible 8HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Shaymin Dazzling Gleam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 35-41 (10.2 - 11.9%) -- possible 9HKO
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill U-turn vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 82-97 (23.9 - 28.2%) -- 95.3% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 102-120 (29.7 - 34.9%) -- 16.8% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 71-84 (20.6 - 24.4%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 95-112 (27.6 - 32.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Mega Blastoise Scald vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 94-112 (27.4 - 32.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 95-112 (27.6 - 32.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 86-101 (25 - 29.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 107-126 (31.1 - 36.7%) -- 66% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 121-142 (35.2 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 40-47 (11.6 - 13.7%) -- possible 8HKO
Also, it's a very good choice to Bulky Offense and Balanced teams, since it really appreciates Healing Wish/Wish support. It's a good wallbreaker in general, since most steel types don't wanna take a drill run and fairies don't want to take a iron head, and Megahorn just do a lot of damage of good part of the defensive mons in this meta.
252+ Atk Escavalier Megahorn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Beedrill: 222-262 (81.9 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Escavalier Megahorn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darmanitan: 178-210 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 139-165 (36.5 - 43.4%) -- 98.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 282-332 (63.5 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 141-166 (36.7 - 43.2%) -- 98.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 142-168 (37.9 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 145-172 (35.8 - 42.5%) -- 94.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Escavalier Megahorn vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 171-202 (42.6 - 50.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 402-474 (56.3 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Escavalier Drill Run vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 158-188 (48.7 - 58%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Escavalier Drill Run vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Nidoqueen: 222-262 (60.6 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Sableye: 280-330 (92.1 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Considering Rocks in the calcs, most of this chances turns into guaranteed 3HKOs/2HKOs.
Escavalier couldn't have all the wallbreaker potential without a Choice Band, but it's AV set is very good at a pivot and pursuit trapper. I see it climbing to B+ with ease, and even further.
may I ask what are Gourgeist and Mismagius niches in UU for them to be ranked? I know for a long time we used Gourgeist to discourage ppl from using Trevenant, but that time has passed and I truly have never seen any of those mons in UU action. I checked both Smogon analysis but I'm not really sold on them. Mismagius' niche is said to "effectively wall any Curse Snorlax variant lacking Crunch" while also "function effectively as a support Pokemon" but frankly Sableye does that better 99/100 times.
I'm not really into VR threads (this is my 2nd post in months) but I guess those mons been listed might encourage new users to use subpar mons that don't actually have a place on this meta.
that's a pretty slippery slope there. you could say the same about a lot of C- i think. for example, what exactly is clefairy doing in this meta? i don't even necessarily disagree with you, but if we're gonna start down that road we gotta follow all the way through or not do it at all
may I ask what are Gourgeist and Mismagius niches in UU for them to be ranked? I know for a long time we used Gourgeist to discourage ppl from using Trevenant, but that time has passed and I truly have never seen any of those mons in UU action. I checked both Smogon analysis but I'm not really sold on them. Mismagius' niche is said to "effectively wall any Curse Snorlax variant lacking Crunch" while also "function effectively as a support Pokemon" but frankly Sableye does that better 99/100 times.
I'm not really into VR threads (this is my 2nd post in months) but I guess those mons been listed might encourage new users to use subpar mons that don't actually have a place on this meta.
Gourgeist is used as a bulky defensive wall. It has amazing bulk, so it switches into physical water and ground types like Mega Swampert for very little damage. Unlike Tangrowth, it can also be used to wall powerful fighting types like Mienshao, and used to spinblock Forretress. It also gets Will-O-Wisp which is nice for wearing down switch-ins. I'm not sure if there are many real-life situations where I would want to use Gourgeist as my bulky grass over Tangrowth or Chesnaught, or my fighting switch-in over say Fatmence. But I believe that's because I forget it exists, so I would keep ranked for now.
Mismagius is used as a Stallbreaker because it has perfect coverage between Shadow Ball and Dazzling Gleam, access to Taunt, and an ability to get past Blissey. However, this one faces quite heavy competition from others. SubCM Chandelure does Missy's role a lot better except for speed, and Sableye breaks stall better. If you want a Nasty Plot sweeper, Mega Houndoom or normal Infernape fill the role better. Not to mention the pokemon by itself is underwhelming power-wise and easily revenge killed by faster pokemon. So yeah I agree, unrank Missy. :/
yeah missy was good at one point because specs shadow ball spam was made cool by reachzero during his short stint in XY but now we have better Pokemon so it should probably come off the list.
would be cool if it had like 110 speed to beat the 108s like espeon did before zam dropped but 105 doesn't cut it for that level of power.
Yeah, Miss just faces way too much competition from other ghosts in this tier to be usable, and the speed creep with the recent drops really hurts it. I also vote for it to be unranked.
Gourgeist though I think should still be ranked. It's nowhere near as good as some of the more popular Grass types, but being a spinblocker and having Will-o to burn physical mons give it a good niche as a decent wall. It's also pretty fun to play around with the Skill Swap set, which can really mess with bulky mons that depend on Rest for recovery.
Felt like rekindling this thread, as unfortunately, it's been dead for way too long, and i've just been hoping that someone else would do the deed for me, but that doesn't seem likely.
Although this has been nominated before, I feel like emphasising the viability of
Escavalier this meta. It is such a strong mon due to it's capabilities to not only be a bulky pivot, but also be an offensive presence. The ability to wall premier offensive threats such as Shaymin, Kyurem, Roserade, Alakazam, Mega-Sceptile, Rotom-Mow, specific Hydreigon variants, Snorlax, Yanmega, Noivern, Ampharos, Porygon-Z, Venomoth, Espeon and Whimsicott gives it a huge edge over a lot of other walls in the tier, due to their lack of offensive presence and the ability to check so many Pokemon. Another strong point of Escavalier is just how well it handles Alakazam. As mentioned in the post before, Alakazam is starved in checks due to it's variety of moves for it's slots and sheer attacking power. Escavalier handles it extremely rigidly. A third strong point is pursuit trapping. Pursuit is such a good move in this meta, due to psychic types, such Alakazam having a lot of influence in the tier. Escavalier is especially good at this because it tanks so many hits and forces switches. It also handles other Psychics such as OTR Reun, CM Reun, Cress, Espeon, and Slowking solidly with Megahorn and trapping, which is so beneficial for the tier.
Escavalier isn't starved in a movepool either. A lot of Escav's "checks" such as Darmanitan and Entei do not like coming in on Knock off, which can knock off either their choice item/life orb. Knock Off is one of the best moves in the game and the idea that Escavalier can use it adds on to it's ridiculous defensive utility. Hell, protect can be used for leftovers recovery due to it lacking reliable recovery options and also to scout moves from choiced mons, making it an even better pivot, or even, the best pivot in the tier. Lastly, I feel Escavaliers second biggest value apart from checking psychics, is stopping a vast majority of set up sweepers, such as threatening CM Florges, and doing heavy damage to things such as CM Cune and Slowking.
I feel that with so many different defensive uses, and the vast utility it provides for balanced and bulky offensive teams, Escavalier is a prime candidate in the tier. Not to mention it's stallbreaking uses, but that is for another post. It deserves a huge boost in the rankings for having such huge role compression and value in one single Pokemon.
Escav is pretty great if you don't stuff it into a vest but its honestly fine in B thanks to its virtually nonexistent speed and support movepool coupled with its really mediocre uninvested bulk.
Yeah, I've been seeing a lot of AV Escavalier on the ladder lately, but I still think its best set by far is SD with Leftovers right now. Swords Dance is just so good at breaking down common defensive cores, and it still traps what it needs to trap without the AV even if you can't pivot it into as many attacks.
Sceptile to A-: This thing is so anti-meta it honestly deserves this. I've found myself using it more and more mostly because it's so fast and aggressive that playing smart dismantles offensive teams without something like crobat or beedrill or whatever. Defensive teams have more checks, like Bronzong and Florges but Bronzong can be worn down and Florges doesn't wanna switch in on a Leaf Storm.
Rose to B: I actually have to disagree. It's our most offensive spiker, and the stabs it has only leaves it walled by Steel Types (And Chesnaught), and it can put things to sleep pretty easily by virtue of actually decent typing. Well, more decent than other things. Grass is pretty good in the meta, and it deters stuff like Whimsicott from wanting to switch in.
I have to support Alakazam to A+. There's a reason why every team is running pursuit now, and that's because zam is just that good. Of course, pursuit is also his arguably greatest weakness, and the main reason why I think he shouldn't go to S, but he is so fast and powerful that him being out of A+ is absurd
I don't have much to add about Mega Sceptile. It's about damn time he moved up.
What's changed for Mega Doom that's resulted in a nom to drop it? I would think that Zam being around would be better for it rather than worse, although Sucker isn't exactly a perfect option for dealing with it
e: After reading Mazz's explanation, I'm fine with it moving down. I'll always say the Sunny Day set is way underrated and doesn't get used nearly enough but it really is pretty niche at this point compared to other Megas.
What's changed for Mega Doom that's resulted in a nom to drop it? I would think that Zam being around would be better for it rather than worse, although Sucker isn't exactly a perfect option for dealing with it
I don't think it is zam that is warranting the drop but the high amount of usage from water-types now that discourage it from a mega slot. But Threw is right, zam actually helps it as it provides a partner alongside MegaDoom that deals with Fighting-types like Machamp and Infernape which can give MegaDoom some struggle. Also IRC Alakazam can also speed tie with norm Aero which can be good in some situations. Honestly i find this really tricky but I can see it staying in B+ just because Alakazam doesn't help with Water-types at all and the mass abundancy of them is kind of overshadowing MegaDoom at the moment
What's really hindering Mega-Houndoom right now is the fact that it's a mega evolution. That slot, nine times out of ten, is better reserved for Swampert, Aerodactyl, Sceptile, etc. So if you take away the mega, it's a shitty Chandelure really - which doesn't need Fighting-types eliminated to be effective.
I don't see Alakazam helping Mega-Houndoom right now - there were things yesterday that could remove Fighting-types for it. Alakazam introduces a need for a faster teammate to deal with it. Mega-Aerodactyl's access to Pursuit makes this ideal. Alakazam forces more teams to run Choice Scarf, which hinders Mega-Houndoom, forcing it to run Flame Charge in order to keep up. Suicune still runs this tier, Swampert is still on 60% of the teams out there. Alakazam hasn't put a dent in the stuff that beats Mega-Houndoom, it's dragged more threats into the mix. Besides, if I want a Fire-type, I look at Entei and Chandelure first, and then I'll regretfully look at Darmanatan and Rotom-H. It's not the first Fire-type that comes to mind because it's so very one-dimensional. Entei is too, but switching in on Sacred Fire is such a crapshoot that it can get away with being one-dimensional (Extreme Speed helps too).
EDIT: I support Mega-Houndoom's drop from A- to B+, and would not be opposed to seeing it drop further if the community feels it's warranted it.
I support Mega-Houndoom to B+
Mega Houndoom is a great Pokémon, but i can't see it aside Azelf, Crawdaunt and Swampert, so, yeah, Mega Houndoom will be great in B+
Hey guys! I have a quick nomination that is bound to be controversial due to a heavy amount of support for multiple Darmanitan drops. Feel free to share what you think about Darmanitan in this current meta, but I think it is very much deserving of B rank.
I'm not going to bring you some weird nonviable set and tell you guys that this is the new Darm of the days and use this to see Darm's true power. Simply enough, Darmanitan's optimal set right now is Jolly Scarf. The knock out power from Darm is insane without any boosts from items. Mienshoa's Reckless High Jump Kick is significantly weaker than Darm's Flare Blitz and we use Mienshoa as a viable scarfer. This pokemon is best with a scarf because Darmanitan is so good at cleaning up and providing momentum. I think the thing people overlook the most is that Darm is great in Volt-Turn cores. Common switch-ins for Darm are bulky water types. What do bulky water types not want to take hits from? They don't like taking Volt-Switch I can tell you that. I can easily force my opponent into a bad position where they don't want their electric resist taking a Flareblitz and they don't want their fire resist taking an electric move. The opposition gets sent into a vicious cycle of chip damage that can only be stopped by sacking a pokemon.
Another thing people may overlook is Darmanitan's consistency. Flareblitz does not miss. A lot of times in pokemon, especially in UU, we sacrifice accuracy for power. We do not have to with Darmanitan. Save it for late game and know that you are going to win. Rock slide is a great move for cleaning up late game as well.
As for fitting in B rank, I consider Darmanitan better than pokemon like Hoopa and Metagross (which are also in B rank). I see it being on the level of P-Z. I do not see it being in the same rank as Donphan, Shuckle, and Aromatise. Darmanitan fulfills far more jobs than B- pokemon and becomes increasingly more useful. UU is entering a period where scarfers are becoming more and more popular. We want to outpace Gyarados at plus 1. We want to apply U-turn pressure on Alakazam. We don't want to be swept by Mega Sceptile anymore. Scarfers are better and Darm is one of the best!
Possible counter arguments
"Darmanitan is weak to all hazard and takes damage from Flare blitz; therefore, its survivability is limited which makes it ineffective as a momentum grabber."
This is one of Darmanitan's greatest faults but this in no way makes Darmanitan ineffective. Hazard control is a thing that should be considered greatly when using Darm. It is one of the reasons Darm is so good on balance, because having walls to fall back can be incredibly prevalent. There are plenty of effective momentum grabbers that are weak to entry hazards that rank far above B.
"The UU tier is full of bulky waters and Darmanitan can't do anything to them."
Yeah, a pokemon is weak to something else in the tier. I never would have guessed. Darmanitan has U-turn and does not have to risk a double which is a really big deal. We have pokemon that switch into water types quite safely. And in case you were wondering about the Gyara switch: -1 252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 182-216 (54.9 - 65.2%) and 252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 274-324 (82.7 - 97.8%). The only safe switches are Water types and we have Helio, Rotom-C, and Zapdos working as great partners.
"There are other momentum grabbers that I can chose from. Why would I want Darm?"
Don't forget that Darm is a very effective late game cleaner as well as a momentum grabber. Not only is Darm powerful, but it is consistent and does not miss its most powerful stab. Darmanitan works better in a volt-turn core than most u-turners because of it's offensive prowess and the predictability of its switch-ins.
