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If Chansey truly is giving you troubles that much, you could try Psyshock instead of Psychic on your Alakazam, or consider Minimize/Stored Power Clefable, though Toxic users will still make things difficult unless you can evade a few of them.
For Golem, you do seem to have a lot of rock and ground vulnerability. Alakazam is again a good solution if you can get the switch in right, but you could also consider a more bulky Zapdos with HP:Water or Grass if Golem continues to give you fits. In a format with so few viable Pokemon, having specific solutions for particular Pokemon is more reasonable.
By the way, stall and semi stall seems really viable. The lack of leftovers recovery and decent spikes setters is not as bad for defensive Pokémon as the loss of offensive items is for offensive Pokémon. In fact, the offensive nature of the metagame right now may make people run stall teams with great success, specially since Clefable and Weezing together can counter all setup sweepers nicely. Of course there is the time limit in the tournament, but the winning criteria in case of time running out is the number of Pokes alive right? As long as you are careful with your Pokes you should be fine.
IF YOU HAVE A COMPLETED TEAM YOU'D LIKE TO SHOW OFF, I ENCOURAGE YOU TO POST IN THE RMT FORUM
Full teams here, even in hide tags, kinda clog this thread up and make it hard to give good advice with everything going on at once. Make sure to read the forum rules there and make sure your write-up is to their standards (for example, simply posting the importable and asking for help is not allowed). The most important thing is to include your teambuilding process and a brief description for each Pokemom (ie: why you chose it, what its does etc.), and identify threats to your team at the end. Images are nice too!
IF YOU HAVE A COMPLETED TEAM YOU'D LIKE TO SHOW OFF, I ENCOURAGE YOU TO POST IN THE RMT FORUM
Full teams here, even in hide tags, kinda clog this thread up and make it hard to give good advice with everything going on at once. Make sure to read the forum rules there and make sure your write-up is to their standards (for example, simply posting the importable and asking for help is not allowed). The most important thing is to include your teambuilding process and a brief description for each Pokemom (ie: why you chose it, what its does etc.), and identify threats to your team at the end. Images are nice too!
Sorry about that, I knew that, but since I saw several people doing so and no one saying anything I thought that you might not want RMTs there since this is a temporary metagame or something like that. I'll post it there, no worries. I'm also deleting it from the previous post.
EDIT: Well, since the purpose of my post is not really suited for rate my team, I'm asking here, without exportables. I don't want to show off my team, I want advice on how to improve it, in a specific thing.
My team: Nidoking (Mixed attacker), Alakazam (Sub Disable/Encore), Rhydon (SR Blastquake Drill), Clefable (T-wave CM Moonblast), Jolteon (HP Ice / Volt Switch) and Dragonite (DD).
This team counters all the major threats of the metagame, bar Snorlax with Iron Head/Heavy Slam (which can be checked with Horn Drill). The thing is, it's a bit frail. I could really use some help with that, I had the idea to change Clefable to a Minimize set and Dragonite to a specially defensive set with t-wave, but I want your opinion on the best approach.
By the way, stall and semi stall seems really viable. The lack of leftovers recovery and decent spikes setters is not as bad for defensive Pokémon as the loss of offensive items is for offensive Pokémon. In fact, the offensive nature of the metagame right now may make people run stall teams with great success, specially since Clefable and Weezing together can counter all setup sweepers nicely. Of course there is the time limit in the tournament, but the winning criteria in case of time running out is the number of Pokes alive right? As long as you are careful with your Pokes you should be fine.
The only Poke that really gives me trouble at the moment is Slowbro who feels semi broken with Regenerator. I was thinking of adding grass type just for it, but all the decent ones are weak to Psychic.
Sorry about that, I knew that, but since I saw several people doing so and no one saying anything I thought that you might not want RMTs there since this is a temporary metagame or something like that. I'll post it there, no worries. I'm also deleting it from the previous post.
EDIT: Well, since the purpose of my post is not really suited for rate my team, I'm asking here, without exportables. I don't want to show off my team, I want advice on how to improve it, in a specific thing.
My team: Nidoking (Mixed attacker), Alakazam (Sub Disable/Encore), Rhydon (SR Blastquake Drill), Clefable (T-wave CM Moonblast), Jolteon (HP Ice / Volt Switch) and Dragonite (DD).
This team counters all the major threats of the metagame, bar Snorlax with Iron Head/Heavy Slam (which can be checked with Horn Drill). The thing is, it's a bit frail. I could really use some help with that, I had the idea to change Clefable to a Minimize set and Dragonite to a specially defensive set with t-wave, but I want your opinion on the best approach.
Changing your Clef to a Minimize set for Snorlax actually WORSENS your matchup vs it because Body Slam would then never miss and double in strength, not to mention Paralysis chance. In all honesty, because of that crippling flaw with Minimize, it's an overrated strategy in my opinion, especially now that Snorlax is seen on nearly every team as the premier non-Poison/Steel type answer to Clefable. Even mons like Clear Smog Weezing and Gengar have no trouble coming in and removing your boosts thanks to Clear Smog always having the ability to hit regardless of how much Evasion you have boosted.
You don't switch in to Water types very well, so if you want bulk, there's Slowbro, Vaporeon and Lapras as potential candidates, the latter of which are immune to water type attacks while the former can make a good pivot with Regenerator.
Maybe clefable should go for a more defensive/supportive strategy with cosmic power > calm mind or perhaps add any two of Aromateraphy/Wish/Protect/T-Wave since you get more inmediate effects from those moves and you aren't crippled as bad by hazers while also giving a hard time to setup sweepers like dragonite/gyarados which usually carry Iron Head anyway to deal with Clefable even when unboosted.
If Chansey truly is giving you troubles that much, you could try Psyshock instead of Psychic on your Alakazam, or consider Minimize/Stored Power Clefable, though Toxic users will still make things difficult unless you can evade a few of them.
For Golem, you do seem to have a lot of rock and ground vulnerability. Alakazam is again a good solution if you can get the switch in right, but you could also consider a more bulky Zapdos with HP:Water or Grass if Golem continues to give you fits. In a format with so few viable Pokemon, having specific solutions for particular Pokemon is more reasonable.
IF YOU HAVE A COMPLETED TEAM YOU'D LIKE TO SHOW OFF, I ENCOURAGE YOU TO POST IN THE RMT FORUM
Full teams here, even in hide tags, kinda clog this thread up and make it hard to give good advice with everything going on at once. Make sure to read the forum rules there and make sure your write-up is to their standards (for example, simply posting the importable and asking for help is not allowed). The most important thing is to include your teambuilding process and a brief description for each Pokemom (ie: why you chose it, what its does etc.), and identify threats to your team at the end. Images are nice too!
My team: Nidoking (Mixed attacker), Alakazam (Sub Disable/Encore), Rhydon (SR Blastquake Drill), Clefable (T-wave CM Moonblast), Jolteon (HP Ice / Volt Switch) and Dragonite (DD).
This team counters all the major threats of the metagame, bar Snorlax with Iron Head/Heavy Slam (which can be checked with Horn Drill). The thing is, it's a bit frail. I could really use some help with that, I had the idea to change Clefable to a Minimize set and Dragonite to a specially defensive set with t-wave, but I want your opinion on the best approach.
I made some calcs with an Adamant Nite fully HP/Atk and T-Wave / Dragon Claw / Iron Tail / Quake. It wins against standard Nite, Nidoking and Clefable.
Did some breeding... and dang it. Guess I'll be hunting for some better Clefables. The one I used for breeding sucks. XD Only got an Above Average on the babies so far.
Maybe clefable should go for a more defensive/supportive strategy with cosmic power > calm mind or perhaps add any two of Aromateraphy/Wish/Protect/T-Wave since you get more inmediate effects from those moves and you aren't crippled as bad by hazers while also giving a hard time to setup sweepers like dragonite/gyarados which usually carry Iron Head anyway to deal with Clefable even when unboosted.
It seems like more and more people are preparing for Calm Mind Clefable, which makes sense, given how easily it can 6-0 teams if left unchecked. I run the standard Moonblast/Calm Mind/Moonlight/T-Wave Unaware set and rarely find myself using Calm Mind due to everyone immediately switching to their Poison the minute they see Clefable. Because of this T-Wave has been immensely useful at crippling Clefable's checks (paralyzing Gengar, Nidoking and Tentacruel make them easier to pick off so Clef can sweep late-game) and ruining setup sweepers (a paralyzed Dragonite can no longer flinch you to death with Iron Head). I'm honestly considering replacing Calm Mind with a move like Heal Bell or Stealth Rocks. Clefable is probably the most consistent rocker in the tier due to how often it can come in and force switches, but the reward of a Clefable sweep almost seems too good to pass up. I've found that once your opponent knows your Clefable is carrying Calm Mind, they will predictably default to one of their checks, which can be taken advantage of with a smart double switch (so even when you're not sweeping with Calm Mind, it's indirectly putting in work simply by making your opponent afraid of letting you setup).
If Zam has Psyshock/ Disable/ Encore, what's the best move in the last slot? Both Protect and Sub make sense, so it's hard to pick.
Has anyone seen Poliwrath in this meta? I don't think it's much good being weak to most every common threat, but I'm curious.
Are ant of the Kanto starters good in this meta? It's kinda funny how they're more or less the best Pokes from Kanto in other metas(up there at least,) but here they seem pretty sucky cause they can't be mega.
Rock Slide or Stone Edge for Aerodactyl? My other moves are EQ/ Taunt/ Stealth Rock. The only one of those I'm not willing to change is Stealth Rock, since it just seems like a must in this meta and one of the biggest draws to using Aerodactyl. Still, rock weak Pokes aren't all that common(bar a few like DNite, Gyara, and Zapdos,) while every team is pretty much guaranteed to have at least one rock resist. So I would consider dropping Aero altogether, in favor of either another rock setter(idk whichd go best with my team, though I'm noticing Jolteon is a bit of a problem,) or something else altogether like Tentacruel or Nidoking/Queen.
Snorlax
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 144 HP / 252 Atk / 112 Def
Adamant Nature
- Curse
- Rest
- Body Slam
- Crunch
Also, I'm pretty sure Machamp is preferred over Primeape, but I really like Primeape and Champ is somewhat more prepared for. CC is really strong, while U-Turn is quite good and Acrobatics is strong with no items. Rock Slide is always a nice move for that flinch, and provides good coverage. The EVs on Snorlax are meant to take Primeape's CC(I think,) while just generally having lots of physical bulk, and still plenty of special bulk.
It seems like more and more people are preparing for Calm Mind Clefable, which makes sense, given how easily it can 6-0 teams if left unchecked. I run the standard Moonblast/Calm Mind/Moonlight/T-Wave Unaware set and rarely find myself using Calm Mind due to everyone immediately switching to their Poison the minute they see Clefable. Because of this T-Wave has been immensely useful at crippling Clefable's checks (paralyzing Gengar, Nidoking and Tentacruel make them easier to pick off so Clef can sweep late-game) and ruining setup sweepers (a paralyzed Dragonite can no longer flinch you to death with Iron Head). I'm honestly considering replacing Calm Mind with a move like Heal Bell or Stealth Rocks. Clefable is probably the most consistent rocker in the tier due to how often it can come in and force switches, but the reward of a Clefable sweep almost seems too good to pass up. I've found that once your opponent knows your Clefable is carrying Calm Mind, they will predictably default to one of their checks, which can be taken advantage of with a smart double switch (so even when you're not sweeping with Calm Mind, it's indirectly putting in work simply by making your opponent afraid of letting you setup).
Nidoking is immune to T-Wave. Not saying it's a bad move for Clef ofc, just saying. Setting Rocks with Clef is a good idea, one I might use. Unaware's vulnerability to status aalso makes me think Heal Bell/Aromatherapy would be really good, but I'm not sure.
If Zam has Psyshock/ Disable/ Encore, what's the best move in the last slot? Both Protect and Sub make sense, so it's hard to pick.
Has anyone seen Poliwrath in this meta? I don't think it's much good being weak to most every common threat, but I'm curious.
Are ant of the Kanto starters good in this meta? It's kinda funny how they're more or less the best Pokes from Kanto in other metas(up there at least,) but here they seem pretty sucky cause they can't be mega.
Rock Slide or Stone Edge for Aerodactyl? My other moves are EQ/ Taunt/ Stealth Rock. The only one of those I'm not willing to change is Stealth Rock, since it just seems like a must in this meta and one of the biggest draws to using Aerodactyl. Still, rock weak Pokes aren't all that common(bar a few like DNite, Gyara, and Zapdos,) while every team is pretty much guaranteed to have at least one rock resist. So I would consider dropping Aero altogether, in favor of either another rock setter(idk whichd go best with my team, though I'm noticing Jolteon is a bit of a problem,) or something else altogether like Tentacruel or Nidoking/Queen.
Snorlax
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 144 HP / 252 Atk / 112 Def
Adamant Nature
- Curse
- Rest
- Body Slam
- Crunch
Also, I'm pretty sure Machamp is preferred over Primeape, but I really like Primeape and Champ is somewhat more prepared for. CC is really strong, while U-Turn is quite good and Acrobatics is strong with no items. Rock Slide is always a nice move for that flinch, and provides good coverage. The EVs on Snorlax are meant to take Primeape's CC(I think,) while just generally having lots of physical bulk, and still plenty of special bulk.
Nidoking is immune to T-Wave. Not saying it's a bad move for Clef ofc, just saying. Setting Rocks with Clef is a good idea, one I might use. Unaware's vulnerability to status aalso makes me think Heal Bell/Aromatherapy would be really good, but I'm not sure.
Venusaur can be decent but I prefer Gengar as a poison type since it checks Clefable.
I prefer Rock Slide on Aerodactyl to not miss as often as possible. Flinches can also be nice. Nidoqueen/queen could also be Rock Setters. Nidoqueen also can check Jolteon if it hasn't taken significant damage.
Also make sure you optimize your Snorlax' spread for lv 50.
DonDonKun I've found Heal Bell on Clefable really helpful due to the large amounts of T-Wave going around.
If Zam has Psyshock/ Disable/ Encore, what's the best move in the last slot? Both Protect and Sub make sense, so it's hard to pick.
Has anyone seen Poliwrath in this meta? I don't think it's much good being weak to most every common threat, but I'm curious.
Are ant of the Kanto starters good in this meta? It's kinda funny how they're more or less the best Pokes from Kanto in other metas(up there at least,) but here they seem pretty sucky cause they can't be mega.
Rock Slide or Stone Edge for Aerodactyl? My other moves are EQ/ Taunt/ Stealth Rock. The only one of those I'm not willing to change is Stealth Rock, since it just seems like a must in this meta and one of the biggest draws to using Aerodactyl. Still, rock weak Pokes aren't all that common(bar a few like DNite, Gyara, and Zapdos,) while every team is pretty much guaranteed to have at least one rock resist. So I would consider dropping Aero altogether, in favor of either another rock setter(idk whichd go best with my team, though I'm noticing Jolteon is a bit of a problem,) or something else altogether like Tentacruel or Nidoking/Queen.
Snorlax
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 144 HP / 252 Atk / 112 Def
Adamant Nature
- Curse
- Rest
- Body Slam
- Crunch
Also, I'm pretty sure Machamp is preferred over Primeape, but I really like Primeape and Champ is somewhat more prepared for. CC is really strong, while U-Turn is quite good and Acrobatics is strong with no items. Rock Slide is always a nice move for that flinch, and provides good coverage. The EVs on Snorlax are meant to take Primeape's CC(I think,) while just generally having lots of physical bulk, and still plenty of special bulk.
Nidoking is immune to T-Wave. Not saying it's a bad move for Clef ofc, just saying. Setting Rocks with Clef is a good idea, one I might use. Unaware's vulnerability to status aalso makes me think Heal Bell/Aromatherapy would be really good, but I'm not sure.
IF YOU HAVE A COMPLETED TEAM YOU'D LIKE TO SHOW OFF, I ENCOURAGE YOU TO POST IN THE RMT FORUM
Full teams here, even in hide tags, kinda clog this thread up and make it hard to give good advice with everything going on at once. Make sure to read the forum rules there and make sure your write-up is to their standards (for example, simply posting the importable and asking for help is not allowed). The most important thing is to include your teambuilding process and a brief description for each Pokemom (ie: why you chose it, what its does etc.), and identify threats to your team at the end. Images are nice too!
Seriously, stop it. cant say has already said we aren't allowed to post whole teams here. Go to the link he provided and post your whole team there. The thread has basically become about 75% pseudo-RMTs and the rest being actual discussion about the metagame itself.
Venusaur can be decent but I prefer Gengar as a poison type since it checks Clefable.
I prefer Rock Slide on Aerodactyl to not miss as often as possible. Flinches can also be nice. Nidoqueen/queen could also be Rock Setters. Nidoqueen also can check Jolteon if it hasn't taken significant damage.
Also make sure you optimize your Snorlax' spread for lv 50.
DonDonKun I've found Heal Bell on Clefable really helpful due to the large amounts of T-Wave going around.
Can't believe I messed up the EVs, I guess I'll move 4 from Def to HP. Nidoqueen might be good-she's a nice Poke and I'm practically committed to using her since I argue Queen>King.
And sorry Vengeance417, the point was it wasn't supposed to be a full team cause I think I'm getting rid of Dactyl, but I can see how it'd be misinterpreted.
Decided to try Taunt Weezing and he's spectacular. Just enough speed to outdo Clefable and shut them down, and also an answer for Snorlax, which had been giving my team fits. I opted for Pain Split over Wow as my team runs a lot of paralysis support, and there's really not many things I'd rather burn than paralyze. Believe in Weezing and try it out if you're having trouble.
I should clarify, I don't mind questions such as "I have [these 4-5 pokemon] and can't beat [X threat] what should I use?" or "I really like [X Pokemon] but I find I'm having trouble with [Y situation] how can I fix the moveset / build?" etc... But yeah full teams should go in our teambuilding thread if you need help, or the RMT forum if you want to show it off
If Zam has Psyshock/ Disable/ Encore, what's the best move in the last slot? Both Protect and Sub make sense, so it's hard to pick.
Has anyone seen Poliwrath in this meta? I don't think it's much good being weak to most every common threat, but I'm curious.
Are ant of the Kanto starters good in this meta? It's kinda funny how they're more or less the best Pokes from Kanto in other metas(up there at least,) but here they seem pretty sucky cause they can't be mega.
Rock Slide or Stone Edge for Aerodactyl? My other moves are EQ/ Taunt/ Stealth Rock. The only one of those I'm not willing to change is Stealth Rock, since it just seems like a must in this meta and one of the biggest draws to using Aerodactyl. Still, rock weak Pokes aren't all that common(bar a few like DNite, Gyara, and Zapdos,) while every team is pretty much guaranteed to have at least one rock resist. So I would consider dropping Aero altogether, in favor of either another rock setter(idk whichd go best with my team, though I'm noticing Jolteon is a bit of a problem,) or something else altogether like Tentacruel or Nidoking/Queen.
Snorlax
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 144 HP / 252 Atk / 112 Def
Adamant Nature
- Curse
- Rest
- Body Slam
- Crunch
Also, I'm pretty sure Machamp is preferred over Primeape, but I really like Primeape and Champ is somewhat more prepared for. CC is really strong, while U-Turn is quite good and Acrobatics is strong with no items. Rock Slide is always a nice move for that flinch, and provides good coverage. The EVs on Snorlax are meant to take Primeape's CC(I think,) while just generally having lots of physical bulk, and still plenty of special bulk.
Nidoking is immune to T-Wave. Not saying it's a bad move for Clef ofc, just saying. Setting Rocks with Clef is a good idea, one I might use. Unaware's vulnerability to status aalso makes me think Heal Bell/Aromatherapy would be really good, but I'm not sure.
I've seen one or two Poliwrath on the lower ladder but I can't see it being viable in this meta. Hypothetically a Rest-Talk set with Scald and Circle Throw could be used to check CurseLax, but there's just too many Psychic types that aren't threatened by anything Poli can do, and will happily switch in freely. Because of all the Alakazam, Slowbro and Starmie running around, fighting types really have it hard in this meta. Machamp is definitely your best bet for one thanks to Dynamicpunch, its huge attack and excellent coverage in Stone Edge/Earthquake/Bullet Punch - which makes switching into one of its moves a real gamble. Hitmonlee can be decent with Sucker Punch, but any other fighting type you'd be using more for fun.
Venusaur is the only Kanto starter that I feel has some use, as it can sort of check Clefable and a couple of the slower waters with Sludge Bomb/Giga Drain/Sleep Powder (I forgot there was no sleep cause so sleep can be really deadly against slower teams without a status absorber/cleric). Blastoise is more or less outclassed by Tentacruel and Starmie as a spinner and Charizard is too frail & slow (relatively speaking) to accomplish much.
I'm finding fewer people are using Aerodactyl and opting for Golem instead as a Stealth Rock setter, and I can see why - everyone is just over-prepared for Aero right now and Golem's consistency (sturdy + phys bulk), ability to check Electrics (watch out for HP Ice) and priority in Sucker Punch serve more valuable roles. Aero is still very good as a speedy attacker as it can revenge Alakazam, Gengar & Starmie - all 3 of which are huge threats for any team archetype.
After about a week, bulkier offense/semi-stall teams seem to really shine higher up on the ladder. Makes sense due to the lack of items and Snorlax and Clefable being arguably two of the best Mons.
Sure Golem has access to priority in the form of sucker punch which threatens Alakazam, but they can easily shut it down with disable or encore. While I agree that Aero isn't a very reliable to setup stealth rock (without dying right away that is), being able to outspeed alakazam and KO it with stone edge if it decides to stay in is a good plus, but it really gives me heart attacks when I go for the coin flip against Jolteon but I have won enough speed ties already.
Decided to try Taunt Weezing and he's spectacular. Just enough speed to outdo Clefable and shut them down, and also an answer for Snorlax, which had been giving my team fits. I opted for Pain Split over Wow as my team runs a lot of paralysis support, and there's really not many things I'd rather burn than paralyze. Believe in Weezing and try it out if you're having trouble.
I still like Taunt + WoW. It basically shuts down RestLax and forces it out, taking rocks + burn damage when it comes back in to rack up even more passive damage + whatever damage your mon uses. Plus, I'd rather burn Dragonite + Gyarados to prevent them from doing any considerable damage for the rest of the game. My stall team has a Wish passer anyway.
Pain Split's still a decent move to run on Weezing though.
I'm using Whirwind Snorlax for a while and I'm very happy with this. People don't expect this and it avoids sweepers setting up. It also do cheap damage with rocks. I currently use Body Slam / Crunch / Rest / Whirlwind but I wonder if Body Slam / Rest / sleep Talk / Whirwind can work, since Gengar is the only Ghost type I can face and all the mons which are weak to Crunch (Alakazam / Starmie...) take a bunch of damage with Body Slam.
I also want to use Cloyster as a Dragonite check, does it work ? With a Rapid Spin / Ice shard / Icicle Spear / ??? and bulky EV spread set ?
I personally don't like cloyster as a rapid spinner because of its weakness to stealth rock, but it is awesome at destroying dragonite with icicle spear, maybe someone else here has a good bulky spread for him. Rock Blast should be the 4th move anyway so you can take care of Gyarados.
About Snorlax all it really needs is Body Slam + Rest to keep damaging stuff, if you really neeed extra coverage over sleep talk then I would consider either Ice Punch or Earthquake or even Pursuit to trap Alaka and Gengar since they can't really do much damage back either.
By the way, I think you should include in the trappers section the Whirlpool and Perish Song Combo, learned by Lapras and Dewgong. I've seen that used quite a few times already.
You don't switch in to Water types very well, so if you want bulk, there's Slowbro, Vaporeon and Lapras as potential candidates, the latter of which are immune to water type attacks while the former can make a good pivot with Regenerator.
I made some calcs with an Adamant Nite fully HP/Atk and T-Wave / Dragon Claw / Iron Tail / Quake. It wins against standard Nite, Nidoking and Clefable.
After about a week, bulkier offense/semi-stall teams seem to really shine higher up on the ladder. Makes sense due to the lack of items and Snorlax and Clefable being arguably two of the best Mons.
This makes total sense to me, and I'll probably prepare two teams, an offensive one for low/mid/mid-high ladder and a more bulky one for high ladder for the tournament.
I personally don't like cloyster as a rapid spinner because of its weakness to stealth rock, but it is awesome at destroying dragonite with icicle spear, maybe someone else here has a good bulky spread for him. Rock Blast should be the 4th move anyway so you can take care of Gyarados.
About Snorlax all it really needs is Body Slam + Rest to keep damaging stuff, if you really neeed extra coverage over sleep talk then I would consider either Ice Punch or Earthquake or even Pursuit to trap Alaka and Gengar since they can't really do much damage back either.
On that note, does Snorlax even need Sleep Talk to function on a Curse set? So long as you're facing something where you can't be 3HKO'd you'll eventually win the battle of attrition and slowly set up (although being a sitting duck during the Rest turns is horrible for losing momentum). I'm wondering because the utility of a move like Pursuit seems too good to pass up with all the frail Psychics and Jolteons running around, but having Curse for a late-game win-con seems really valuable too.
Speaking of Jolteon, has anyone used it as a Cleric for Heal Bell yet? On paper it seems really appealing with a set of Thunderbolt/Volt Switch/HP Ice/Heal Bell since it outspeeds all but 3 Mons in the tier and doesn't forfeit momentum thanks to Volt Switch. More teams are relying on paralysis for faster threats and even Toxic for things like Unaware CM Clefable, so having a Cleric seems invaluable for a bulkier team.
Actually I would go as far as thinking sleep talk should be preferred over curse if choice must be made, because it allows snorlax to not be just a sitting duck for something else to setup on him, but it also works better as a sleep absorber thanks to it ever since I have seen a couple teams running either Spore (Parasect) or Sleep Powder (Venusaur, Venomoth) which is really annoying. On that note I would be specially wary of Venomoth teams not getting out of control with quiver dances because those really hurt a lot.
I agree with having a cleric though, just not sure if Jolteon's the best candidate for it although chances are your team relies on clefable for sweeping rather than supporting and there's no better second option.
Also how useful is HP ice on Jolteon anyway? Sure it's a pseudo Bolt-Beam combo but aside from Dragonite it doesn't really hit anything else hard right?
