SPL 7: UU Discussion Thread

[kokoloko]

guys, i love hogg as much as everyone else and think he's a good player and all but that game was a total robbery lol

he actually tried to sac his only alakzam answer, got bailed out by the miss, which was a guaranteed kill at that point (draco does 83 min vs max/max and he's at 82 that turn), and won cause of it. if that draco had hit, he'd be left with 4 pokemon, 3 of which cant even like a psychic vs my 5 mons, so i can actually just trade kills at that point. by which i mean every time he tries to revenge with scept he's forced to storm something, so i can bring zam in safely once he's at -2 and just psychic and something drops dead. like there's actually no outcome i can see in which hogg wins at that point. unfortunate.

also the taunt lasting 2 turns on a switch was a mechanic i didnt know about so that's good to know i guess.

 

[Freeroamer]

Wouldve liked to have seen how the endgame played out, I assume it was CM Florges but I think any set/spread would have ended up losing provided Hogg played it right because of Milo being faster and having Haze. Draco miss definitely sucked as it gave Infernape an extra free switchin, as it got one when koko was forced to taunt and then another when Sab was still around later to be sacced. Considering Ape broke down a lot of koko's team an extra chance to come in is huge.

 

[kokoloko]

this is how the end-game would have played out:

252 Atk Choice Band Blaze Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 224 Def Florges: 390-460 (108.6 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

florges was calm.

if he wasn't blaze, then:

252 Atk Choice Band Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 224 Def Florges: 261-307 (72.7 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

but i lose to the milo 100% unless massive luck / choke.

 

[Kink]

this is how the end-game would have played out:

252 Atk Choice Band Blaze Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 224 Def Florges: 390-460 (108.6 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

florges was calm.

if he wasn't blaze, then:

252 Atk Choice Band Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 224 Def Florges: 261-307 (72.7 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

but i lose to the milo 100% unless massive luck / choke.

He was definitely Blaze.

edit: you seem to be a little upset. I wasn't attempting to get under your skin, I just know he was blaze.

e2: apparently he changed it last minute and I was unaware. apologies.

 

[kokoloko]

what a useful post, uu forum moderator. this is off-topic, but let me illustrate why you could be wrong with a single calc:

252 Atk Choice Band Infernape Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Sharpedo: 224-266 (79.7 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Infernape Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Sharpedo: 270-320 (96 - 113.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

 

[Christo]

That Draco miss did matter for sure, but I wouldn't call his win a "robbery" per se. If Hogg was able to double switch on the Florges and get a Recover off with Milotic, he had a decent chance at winning the game. Of course that is a 'what-if' scenario though. I thought it was a GG overall. New players just can't be stopped :)

 

[Hogg]

He was definitely Blaze.

I was running Iron Fist, for the record.

 

[kokoloko]

That Draco miss did matter for sure, but I wouldn't call his win a "robbery" per se. If Hogg was able to double switch on the Florges and get a Recover off with Milotic, he had a decent chance at winning the game. Of course that is a 'what-if' scenario though. I thought it was a GG overall. New players just can't be stopped :)

no but actually how is he gonna do that when the plan once sab dies becomes "kill everything with zam's psychic" and he only has a milo, scept, and ape, all of which die to 1 psychic and a pert that gets 2HKOd. i wouldnt ever go to a pokemon that gave milo a recover until it didn't matter anymore.

if the draco hit this becomes the scenario:

i have a 64% taunt hydrei at -2 out and a 100% unmega'd aero, 92% cune, 94% florg, and 100% zam
he has 72% ape, 100% scept, 100% pert, 18% milotic, in the back.

he sends out scept or ape to revenge.
i go straight to aero and die to CC or leaf storm. if he u-turns then i get to weaken the pert into 1 psychic range so im ok with that too.
i go zam and get a kill on prob ape? he's down to milo, scept, and pert.
he goes scept leaf storm (he can't go pert and click EQ cause i live over 80% of the time unless he's invested i guess but i doubt it and even if he is, the roll is in my favor)
i go to hydrei and sac it. im down to zam, florg, and cune.
i go back to zam and click psychic, and 2HKO the incoming pert.
he goes to scept, and this is where he has a chance to double.

but i don't have to switch, i just stay in and click psychic. if he doubles, he loses.
if he attacks (which has a 75% chance to kill btw), i go florges afterwards and moonblast, if he loses the scept, cune beats milo 1v1 cause of pressure, especially since i also have a florges at that point.

so yeah im not sure in what world he could ever recover with milo when there would literally have been 0 room for him to do so.

also im mostly posting this not to prove chisto's wrong, but so people can see my thought process and how the game would have played out.

that is all.

 

[Christo]

I was saying that IF u did let Milotic in on a Florges, he had a solid chance at winning, but if you didn't let that happen you won most likely. I can not predict your thought process, haha. Sorry if I wasn't clear!

 

[dekzeh]

no but actually how is he gonna do that when the plan once sab dies becomes "kill everything with zam's psychic" and he only has a milo, scept, and ape, all of which die to 1 psychic and a pert that gets 2HKOd. i wouldnt ever go to a pokemon that gave milo a recover until it didn't matter anymore.

if the draco hit this becomes the scenario:

i have a 64% taunt hydrei at -2 out and a 100% unmega'd aero, 92% cune, 94% florg, and 100% zam
he has 72% ape, 100% scept, 100% pert, 18% milotic, in the back.

he sends out either scept or ape to revenge.
i go straight to aero and die to CC or leaf storm.

Stopped right here cause I think what you mean is you go to Aero and die to two Scep Dragon Pulse's and not Leaf Storm right? And after that the only thing you can send on Scept is Florges or risk a 75% chance to kill on Zam? If you send Florges on Dragon Pulse, same thing, eventually Milo gets to Recover.

Not to say the miss didn't matter; it did. But implying you had the game won is ridiculous. The miss put hogg in an amazing position but he would be nowhere near a 100% loss position had you hit. In fact you wouldn't even be at an amazing position.

 

[kokoloko]

he couldnt dragon pulse into zam cause it doesnt kill and it dies to psychic, but o_k, lets assume that was a 50-50. from there im still in a MUCH better position than he is and i REALLY doubt he'd have dpulsed.

actually i can sac the hydrei that i have out instead of the aero and still guarantee the win so like ??

 

[dekzeh]

he couldnt dragon pulse into zam cause it doesnt kill and it dies to psychic, but o_k, lets assume that was a 50-50. from there im still in a MUCH better position than he is and i REALLY doubt he'd have dpulsed.

Bro it'd be Sceptile vs Hydreigon, I'm talking about the very next turn you kill the Sableye, he sends Sceptile to revenge. You said you'd go Aero on this turn on a Leaf Storm ?_?

Edit: in response to your edit, you sack Hydrei and go to what exactly? Zam comes down to the 25% chance, Aero means Pert gets in and something is taking damage, even if minor (either Aero dies, Zam gets 100% into Scep range, Florges/Suicune risks a burn and/or Milotic recovering), Florges is an option but if Florges ever kills something Milotic recovers.

I never said the hax didn't matter; it did, and it was big, but you seem to ignore every scenario that isn't ideal to you and saying you simply had it won.

 

[kokoloko]

check my edit above.

actually lol im retarded dek's right where did my brain go help

edit: but i mean i don't think its fair i wouldn't be in an amazing position given that i could go florg and unless he made that very risky double, i can put the likely pert switchin into 1 psychic range with moonblasts. he could also sac something and then get the recover off but i'd still have hydrei to kill shit and taunt further recover attempts.

still though where did my brain go wtf.

 

[Hogg]

Just for the record, since people have asked why I kept Sableye in on Hydreigon...

At that point in the game, I pretty much needed Pert to give me a safe switch into Aero, which otherwise could sweep my team, and also potentially to tank a Psychic and shave some health off of Zam if needed. I also knew that Milotic was my only defense against a late-game sweep from CM Suicune or Florges, and if I could get it in safely against either, it could also serve as a secondary Zam check. Infernape still put too much pressure on his team to be worth sacrificing either at that point, as with hazards down it at worst 2HKO'd anything that came in - and I could also easily see situations where CB Mach Punch saved my ass in the late game, as it does 37% min to Zam (ie, into guaranteed Dragon Pulse range) and 38% min to Aero, the two threats that scared me the most.

Also I figured there was a decent chance of DGleam on Zam, and with that doing 75% min to my Sableye, it wasn't actually that reliable of a check. I figured I was better off leaving Sableye in and hopefully forcing him into a situation where I could get a Recover off with Milotic. If nothing else, I figured the threat of potentially recovering with Milotic meant that he couldn't really bring Florges in, so I was basically free to spam Dragon Pulse and could hopefully pick up some momentum back that way.

Of course none of that needed to happen because instead he missed with Draco, and suddenly I was in a much, much better position. Apparently I have better luck against meteors than some people...

 

[Hogg]

aim v xMarth happening now: http://smogtours.psim.us/battle-uu-131085

 

[Sacri']

Replay : http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-uu-131085

 

[kokoloko]

nice Joey isn't human

 

[Kink]

9-5's make you miss all the good shit.

 

[Hogg]

Icey Tea was subbed in over lochie; they are playing now: http://smogtours.psim.us/battle-uu-132187

 

[Thisbemyalt]

Honestly that game was pretty painful to watch, I was excited to see the game on matchup as Hikari had an advantage with a nice volturn core of shao+helio paired with aero who could win pretty quickly against Icey's team, but icey tea certainly could have overcome the matchup with some aggressive plays. However the early game freeze just lost icey tea two mons and made it almost impossible for him to win, then hikari staying in on the double to get rocks just sealed Icey's fate. Hopefully next week Icey will get a good chance to show off why he was drafted but a poor matchup+hax just made this game hopeless. That being said once again hikari brings a win and in all honesty I think he could've brought home the W without the hax with relative ease since he has played so well in his past couple of games. Quite the shame that we couldn't see a game between these two great players without hax but thats just the game we play.

 

[naruto(sage)]

That was a good battle. I enjoyed how suicune put pressure on tea's team. It was nice to see mienshao used since it hasn't been getting as much usage due to the recent drops. Both players played excellently.

 

[ict]

I didnt play excellently in my opinion, I was tempted to click Trick Turn 1 though I didn't want Florges tricked. So I preserved it for later after figuring out the Suicune set. After that happened I sadly got freezed which was just put me in a disastrous position at that point, making me sack 2 valuable Pokemon. Tbh after that I was forced to play extremely aggressive in order to attempt to even win. The play with Aero vs Empo still was questionable since he really had no reason to sack his Mega Aero yet making him extremely vulnerable to Extremespeed spam from Entei late game. I dont know if it was some godlike prediction but in my eyes that play really wasn't necessary, because it could put him in a losing position. With Aero gone i only needed 3 entries from Mienshao on rocks in order to win with Entei which was my plan at that point but Hikari played that very well out (to be expected from him). I'm kind of upset that my first game had to start like this :( and yet annoyed by it but it's fine, gg Hikari c:!

Shoutouts to my team for the support+motivation and cheering me up, very appreciated!

 

[Saria]

I wasn't saccing Aero. You were behind and you needed a play to get in a better position, and that turn was pretty much your only chance left to do so. Read it, got rocks up for free and put myself in an even better position.

 

[kokoloko]

yeah right stop acting like us old non PS players can play pokemon at that high a level

you choked and lucked out deal with it fgt

 

[r0ady]

ORAS UU: Hogg vs teal6 not gonna pick between good friends D:
ORAS UU: Calloflochie vs xMarth time for marth to pick things up again
ORAS UU: Christo. vs kokoloko just from experience with both of them think christo has this, kokos dangerous though
ORAS UU: aim vs Hikari aim surprised me last week ngl, but like i say every week hikari is insanely good at preperation
ORAS UU: bugzinator vs dodmen and now dod storms through the last few weeks with a positive record