Battle Spot Kanto Classic-Snorlax is my Favorite

[Omastar68]

I've been playing Kanto Classic quite a bit, and I've reached a pretty good rating. I always switch things a lot. My first attempt included Chansey, but too many common Pokes are unkind to her, and she does little damage. Other things I've tried include Primeape, Hitmonlee, Nidoking, Nidoqueen, and Tentacruel, but I've decided against each of them(well, not so much Tenta. As you'll see that was NOVED's idea, but I happen to agree.) This is what I have right now.

Golem
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 116 HP / 252 Atk/ 140 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion

The newest addition to my team. Golem is the obligatory Rock setter. Speed is for 12 Spe Clefable. I decided on Rock Blast for breaking subs and also Multiscake in Dragonite. It's also more accurate with spdouble the PP(not sure that matters.) I chose Explosion because Sucker Punch is just really predictable on most stuff that gets it, and there'll be times when Golem is gonna be set up folder or something and I'll want to sacrifice it to blast the foe and bring in something for free. Golem also deals fairly well with the common Jolteon, OHKOing with EQ(I don't like Jolteon. Despite my team not having any electric weak Pokes it can be a problem for me with moves like Shadow Ball and Yawn. Especially Yawn, and I don't appreciate getting hot by a fairly strong Volt Switch, while not being able to damage Jolteon unless Snorlax is out and Pursuits, either.)

Gengar
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Clear Smog
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp

Gengar is really good in this meta, particularly for Clear Smog to reset Clefable, though it's also helpful for Snorlax. Really not much you can do with EVs on this guy. I could cut back on Spe, but then I lose the Spe tie with other max Spe base 110s like Tauros, and going Modest means I'm slower than Zapdos and stuff. I'm not sure if I should be running Shadow Ball or Hex. WoW is really nice for most any physical attacker, especially Machamp, Snorlax, and DNite that isn't boosted. Taunt stops set up, as lots of DNites and Gyaras will DD the first turn instead of going for an OHKO. Also stops Clefable and stuff. Gengar has been especially useful vs Slowbro, which Nidoqueen doesn't like, and Snorlax, for which I don't really have a good answer since I'm not running a fighting type.

Clefable (F)
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
- Thunder Wave
- Moonlight

Clefable is the most common Pokemon in this meta. It's kinda like what Garchomp is for regular BSS, but better. They always go max physical bulk for DNite(mainly,) but one point lessDef to speed creep other Clef seems like a good idea. I decided against Minimize since Snorlax is a thing, and it can be hard to set up besides. Calm Mind can also be hard to set up, but it's hard to resist it on a physically bulky Clef. Moonblast is also really good mono coverage, since Heatran doesn't exist. Moonlight has to be your healing since Softboiled is only available in games before there were HAs. Thunder Wave is a good move in general, and gives more set up opportunities cause the foe is slower and can no longer flinch, and may fail to move altogether. Clefable is just really great in this meta, so there's little else to say.

Zapdos
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 SpD
Calm Nature
- Discharge
- Roost
- Heat Wave
- Roar

I chose Zapdos since I was having trouble with electric types like enemy Zapdos and Jolteon, despite not having anything weak to electric. EVs are focused on SpD since my main problem Pokes are special, but the Def survives +1 DNite's Outrage, and is just helpful in general while not really compromising anything. Discharge is because I really like paralysis and the lower power matters less with no SpA, but I still want an electric STAB. It hits lots of stuff like Slowbro, Starmie, Lapras, and Gyara really hard. Heat Wave seems like the best secondary attack for the power. Any HP I run leaves me walled by something anyways, so why not? Roar is to rack up hazard damage, and is just generally unexpected. Only big problem there is Electrode because of Soundproof. Zapdos has helped me a lot, especially with stuff that tries to boost or is weak to electric, though anything not immune to election has to at least be wary of paralysis.

Alakazam (F)
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Psyshock
- Energy Ball
- Encore

Zam is another big player on this meta. It completely destroys two common threats in Gengar and Machamp, and is unkind to Starmie, Slowbro, and many others as well. Psyshock does a fair amount to Clef, Chansey, and Snorlax, and the former can be messed up with Encore. Lots of moves are viable on Zam, so I don't think there's a definite best set. That said it should be max Spe and SpA and Timid since its bulk is meager and it needs speed. Substitute is really nice for predicted Sucker Punches and status moves, and you can Encore the latter to mess up the opponent. Psyshock is favored over Psychic despite the lower power because Chansey is still a thing, and Snorlax takes a lot more too. I chose Energy Ball since it hits much of the stuff weak to Shadow Ball like Slowbro while also getting lots of other coverage like Lapras, Golem, Sandslash, Rhydon, Blastoise, and Cloyster. Disable just didn't give me enough coverage. One problem with no Shadow Ball is Exeggutor, but it's rare.

Snorlax
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 148 HP / 252 Atk / 108 Def
Adamant Nature
- Rest
- Pursuit
- Body Slam
- Fissure

Snorlax is probably the single best Poke from the first generation, with huge special bulk and Atk, and a way to boost its Def and Atk in Curse, though I'm not using that mainly because I need Sleep Talk to deal with Venomoth. EVs survive Primeape's CC(or at least have a very good chance of doing so.) I don't see Primeape very much, but in theory the EVs also improve physical bulk a lot more than just max HP. Pursuit is a strange move I don't normally like, but here it is perfect for trapping Zam, or anything you expect to switch. It's unfortunately not that great vs Gengar since many have WoW, but it is at least a way to hit it. Body Slam is way better than Return, particularly on a set without Curse, and means I haven't lost just because the foe has set up a ton with Minimize. It also gives another way to paralyze the foe, which non Curse Snorlax can take advantage of. Snorlax has been really great all around, and I think its weaknesses are covered well by the rest of my team. Fissure is better than Sleep a Talk for the last slot, since, as people have pointed out, my team does okay with Venomoth, and Fissure helps with opposing Snorlax and other things like non Minimize Clef.

So there you have it. One problem I have is Snorlax, since I lack a fighting type. That said, Golem takes little from its main moves bar crazy Atk boosts, and Gengar can burn it and then prevent Rest with Taunt. Zapdos has also helped me a bit with Snorlax. Despite dealing very little damage, it can phaze Snorlax, resetting its boosts.

I also seem to have a problem with Golem. Zapdos is 2HKOd at best, deals little with Heat Wave, and Golem doesn't mind being phased and having to take another round of SR damage when it switches in next cause it resists rock. Snorlax can't hit it hard, and in some ways paralyzingly it is bad because Gengar can burn it. Plus a Sturdy renders Fissure useless. Clef fears the high powered moves it has, and Golem likes to run Spe to creep Clef so I need several boosts and it's Sturdy broken to win that match up. Gengar can burn it, but if I Taunt expecting ST and eat an attack from it unburied I lose. Zam should beat it with Energy Ball, but it depends. And many times my Zam dies early on and I have nothing(thank you Pursuit Snorlax. This is why some Zam run Focus Blast, though it's so unreliable and worse coverage for the most part.) A Golem of my own is also not an answer for it. For these reasons I'm thinking of dropping Golem for Machamp and replacing CM on Clef with Stealth Rock. I could then maybe replace Fissure with Whirlwind. Thoughts?

 

[Omastar68]

Hey there.

• On Zapdos, Defog/HP Ice>Roar, since Stealth Rock does a lot of damage to Zapdos.
• On Gengar, Sludge Wave>Clear Smog. I know you want it to reset stats, but that should be the least of your worries with Gengar. Sludge Wave deals a lot of damage, so you can knock out threats to your team.
  Calc

  252 SpA Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dugtrio: 126-149 (62.6 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• On Nidoqueen, you may want to consider Toxic Spikes as this can help your team a lot.

Good Luck with your team!

Thanks, I'll definitely be changing some stuff on here. I've actually not had too much trouble with stat boosters, so I agree with getting rid of Clear Smog. Are there any notable KOs Sludge Wave gets that Sludge Bomb doesn't? If not Bomb is better for the much higher poison chance. Toxic Spikes are good, except there are so many grounded poison types that suck them up. Nidoking and Queen, Tentacruel, Venusaur, Benomoth, Muk, and lots of less common stuff like Vileplume and Arbok.

I'm kinda surprised you don't like Roar on Zapdos. It's been really nice for things that like to set up, as well as against stuff that I know will switch, since what it switches to gets Roared and that ends up being a lot of hazard damage. HP Ice doesn't really work with no SpA, and Defog gets rid of my Stealth Rocks instead of making more use of them. It could work, but Zapdos is my only Poke with a rock weakness, and it has to take SR damage to switch in and clear rocks.

At any rate, I'm thinking of getting rid of Nidoqueen, and completely changing the idea behind this team, for something like Tentacruel, which could Spin away hazards and use Haze for stat boosters.

 

[NOVED]

I think Tentacruel could probably be replaced with something else. You already have Gengar as solid poison type. And Gengar/Zapdos can both remove stat boosts if you're worried about that(and Clefable ignores them). Gengar/Snorlax/SubEncore Zam are all fine ways to deal with Clefable too, so I dont think Tenta is necessary for it.

You could maybe replace it with something to help your matchup against Snorlax. Like Machamp or a bulky Rock-type like Rhydon or Golem. I know those dont really fill similar roles to Tentacruel but I think being able to take on Snorlax more reliably could be a big benefit and like I said I do think Tenta's role on the team is a bit overlapping with other mons. Plus, if you run a bulky rock type you can run rocks on them instead of Clef and that'll give you a free moveslot for something more beneficial like Twave or Minimize. Losing hazard removal stinks a little bit but looking at your team I think you can probably still handle rocks being up, Zapdos being your only mon weak to Rocks. It's something worth testing I think at least. If rocks turn out to be too overwhelming you could change things back, or consider running Defog on Zapdos.

Your team looks pretty solid. Only other thing I'd consider changing is maybe Fissure over Sleep Talk on Snorlax. Not something I think is necessary, mostly just preferance. I've found Fissure to be really useful against things like Slowbro, Rhydon, Clefable. And snorlax is so bulky it can actually find some turns to rest up and burn the 2 turns off. I get that some people prefer the reliability of sleep talk though. But fissures something thats worth trying out I think.

 

[Omastar68]

I think Tentacruel could probably be replaced with something else. You already have Gengar as solid poison type. And Gengar/Zapdos can both remove stat boosts if you're worried about that(and Clefable ignores them). Gengar/Snorlax/SubEncore Zam are all fine ways to deal with Clefable too, so I dont think Tenta is necessary for it.

You could maybe replace it with something to help your matchup against Snorlax. Like Machamp or a bulky Rock-type like Rhydon or Golem. I know those dont really fill similar roles to Tentacruel but I think being able to take on Snorlax more reliably could be a big benefit and like I said I do think Tenta's role on the team is a bit overlapping with other mons. Plus, if you run a bulky rock type you can run rocks on them instead of Clef and that'll give you a free moveslot for something more beneficial like Twave or Minimize. Losing hazard removal stinks a little bit but looking at your team I think you can probably still handle rocks being up, Zapdos being your only mon weak to Rocks. It's something worth testing I think at least. If rocks turn out to be too overwhelming you could change things back, or consider running Defog on Zapdos.

Your team looks pretty solid. Only other thing I'd consider changing is maybe Fissure over Sleep Talk on Snorlax. Not something I think is necessary, mostly just preferance. I've found Fissure to be really useful against things like Slowbro, Rhydon, Clefable. And snorlax is so bulky it can actually find some turns to rest up and burn the 2 turns off. I get that some people prefer the reliability of sleep talk though. But fissures something thats worth trying out I think.

That's smart about Tenta. Without it I had problems with Clefable, but that's just something that's gonna happen from time to time rather than a weakness of my team. Snorlax, on the other hand, is consistently difficult to deal with. Golem to set up Rocks is a good idea-I don't really like having them on Clef since T-Wave is so useful(I mostly stay away from Minimize because of Snorlax. It's also worth noting that most everything can get Body Slam.)

I'd like something other than Sleep Talk on Snorlax, except I kind of need it for Venomoth. Waiting out the sleep turns usually isn't a problem, and Sleep Talk often pulls up Rest or a Pursuit without the effect, which is rubbish. Mainly just keeping it for Venomoth, since it'll put me to sleep and then boost with QD if I can't hit it while asleep. I've found like zero other ways to deal with Venomoth without resorting to using a weird Poke like Magmar, but if you have any ideas that'd work I'd definitely swap Sleep Talk for Fissure, or maybe Whirlwind.

Hazards removal shouldn't be much of an issue, since I haven't had it before adding Tenta and still did ok. I've seen some people running Sandslash for Rocks and Spin, might do that if it becomes an issue. I'm glad you like my team! I've noticed besides Snorlax I don't really have a single Poke that's a weakness, it's more cores. Slowbro and Machamp don't do well with Gengar, but they're still a tough pair. DNite isn't very nice if it has Iron Head and Stealth Rock is on my side(well, against me, but you know.)

 

[cant say]

You have Unaware Clef and bulky Roar Zapdos so even if Venomoth gets the Sleep Powder off you shouldn't be too afraid of Quiver Dance (and/or Baton Pass), so yeah I think dropping Sleep Talk on Snorlax is fine.

 

[Omastar68]

You have Unaware Clef and bulky Roar Zapdos so even if Venomoth gets the Sleep Powder off you shouldn't be too afraid of Quiver Dance (and/or Baton Pass), so yeah I think dropping Sleep Talk on Snorlax is fine.

I could try doing that. Would you replace ST with Fissure? There are quite a few other moves that'd be nice to use Whirlwind gets rid of stat boosters and racks up entry hazard damage, Last Resort would be kinda nice since Snorlax doesn't really need coverage, and even Toxic would be great for doing something to Slowbro and Zapdos.

 

[cant say]

Yeah Sleep Talk. Whirlwind is cool too, for some reason I ran into several Stockpile + Whirlwind Lax's tonight with Stealth Rock support, it was really annoying... Don't bother with Last Resort, Lax needs it's four moveslots badly and I find he doesn't stay in for that many consecutive turns. Lax beats Slowbro with Fissure, and Zapdos 1v1 with Crunch def drops hehe

 

[Omastar68]

^^Didnt think about Crunch Def drops(I know about them, Ofc, and I have tried to had with them before, but forgot lol.) Stockpile is really annoying, seen it once. I don't think the boosts from it are wiped away by a Clear Smog and Haze-or, at least, the Stockpile status(so for Swallow and Spit Up,) doesn't go away. I'll go Fissure then, mainly for Slowbro.