I thought That is the intended behavior. Meloetta is not allowed to transform after mega evolving
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Ladder Mix and Mega
- Thread starter Imperator Romanum
- Start date
Pidgeotite Keldeo is one-shotted by literally any Aerilate or Pixilate Extreme Speeder. Manaphy can tank a hit and KO back. Keldeo cannot, because it doesn't survive, restricting its capacity for an uncontrolled sweep abusing boosting. That and it's possible to flat-out wall non-Hidden Power Keldeo, even if for some bizarre reason they get to +6, with things like Red Orb Gourgeist. Manaphy's core attacks become ineffective, not useless, in that case.
Thundurus' coverage leaves much to be desired, and it can't do a lot to fix that. It also stands essentially no chance against Sablenite Blissey, barring getting really lucky with Paralysis. It's also hilariously fragile.
252+ Atk Pixilate Zygarde (Altarianite) Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus (Any Stone that provides no bulk enhancement): 262-310 (87.6 - 103.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
Pixilate Zygarde doesn't even need Stealth Rock to have a shot at OHKOing Thundurus! With Stealth Rock up, Thundurus is just screwed. Entei's base Attack is higher than Zygarde's, and will OHKO a fresh Thundurus nearly 70% of the time.
I don't know why you're comparing Keldeo's Hydro Pump to Manaphy's Scald, either.
+1 252 SpA Keldeo (Pidgeotite) Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew (Generic): 364-430 (106.7 - 126%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+3 252 SpA Manaphy (Absolite/Sceptilite) Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew (Generic): 388-457 (113.7 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO
If Manaphy wants raw power, it still wins the comparison. Scald is just smart because it makes it so hard to actually switch in various checks, while the increase in firepower Surf brings is fairly small.
I also have no idea why you're talking about Blue Orb checks to -atespeed nor how you're drawing the conclusion that Manaphy's threat level somehow illustrates that -atespeed is "unmanageable". I'm genuinely baffled as to what it is you're saying, let alone the logic that's supposed to underlie it.
Wait, Sheer Force is preventing Relic Song from triggering Meloetta's Forme change? I think that's a bug even from the perspective of Standard, let alone MnM.
The oddity is that Sheer Force is preventing the change, but that Meloetta is otherwise free to transform as it likes. That's not right.
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Can confirm that the bug is not limited to Mix and Mega coding:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/customgame-330531418
It seems that whoever coded Relic Song tagged whatever causes Melo to transform as a "secondary effect" from the perspective of Sheer Force, which doesn't seem right. That, or the % sleep chance is the transformation tag. I have no way to test if this is on-cart behavior, but you should make a bug report anyway.
EDIT: For those that have ORAS carts, you could test this without hacking: enter a double battle with a Meloetta that has Relic Song and Skill Swap, along with a Sheer Force Pokemon (Nidoking, Feraligatr, Mega Camerupt, etc.) Skill Swap your partner the first turn, then use Relic Song the second turn. If you still transform regardless of your ability, this is indeed a Showdown bug.
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First off, Keldeo can take several hits and ohko back - 100/100/100 is not that much of a step above 91/90/90. The weakness to -ates is large, and I also acknowledge that -ates hold it back massively, but it also has a huge first turn firepower difference over manaphy, which is incredibly relevant in a hyper offensive meta. I also don't think weird sets walling it holds much merit, because there's quite a few bizarre nonsense mons that destroy most Manaphy sets - for example, max hp modest red orb Venusaur/Roserade tanks any +3 hit Absolite Manaphy can throw at it. I was directly comparing how they did one specific role - brutalize people who dare to try to wall -atespeeds (similar to the role I specified Thundurus as doing). And they both do that, very well, since mons like Ferrothorn would have the option of running sets with better match ups if they weren't trying to make sure you didn't lose to Entei/Arcanine.
Electric/Fighting/Steel (Thunder/Focus Blast/Grass Knot) is excellent coverage that hits the vast majority of the metagame neutrally with a strong, high base power move (or grass knot I guess). Sceptilite Manaphy is also not living a pixispeed, and both it and Thundurus live pinsir/mencespeeds (the rare Glaliespeed knocks thundy out cold, however); while Manaphy has the advantage of it not being overwhelmingly obvious turn one, Thundurus has higher speed, more immediate power (once again, this is really massive in this meta environment), and also more versatility to make it harder to predict before setting up. Also, the +5 defense from Pidgeotite pushes the fairy-speed from Zygarde barely into always live range, if you haven't been touched.
Also, Blue Orb wasn't considered the sole check to -iatespeed; it's part of nearly every team trying to defensively check them as part of a wider core because of the massive difficult in handling the three best -atespeeders with a single mon, much less all three at once. Teams featuring a special sweeper (preferably Keldeo right now, because it has the best shot of breaking Blissey painlessly), Arceus, Arcanine, Entei, and Zygarde can pretty effortlessly overwhelm many common balance and offensive teams because you need multiple checks to the espeeders and at least one will always leave you incredibly weak to powerful set-up sweepers who can take advantage of the opening. Blue Orb Skarm/Ferrothorn are just the most obvious examples of this, but it covers a wide array of threats. Manaphy is just the threat that most effortlessly tears open this hole, but there's plenty that exploit it decently.
Lcass4919
The Xatu Warrior
isnt the transformation its primary effect? primary effects arent affected by sheer force. kinda like how flare blitz doesnt negate the recoil. but its still something to look into. because gamefreaks logic can be....odd sometimes.
The problem is that she can transform after Mega Evolving, and by doing so she loses her Mega stats. The intended behaviour is that she retains a Mega based on her current Forme after Mega Evolving, and is prevented from ever switching out of that Forme for the rest of the battle.
What I think is happening is that Sheer Force is triggering off of the sleep chance, and the way Sheer Force works is to skip all the checks for anything that happens after the damage is dealt. That's why Sheer Force prevents the opponent's Colour Change from activating, for example.
Huh, I guess that would make sense. I've always wondered why Sheer Force skips the Life Orb recoil but Bulbapedia attributes it to the same effect you describe. Does the Relic Song interaction occur on-cart, though? I feel like that's something Gamefreak would code an exception for, but I could be wrong. Sheer Force has really weird coding, so I wouldn't be surprised either way.
Come to think of it, though, I think if this was a Showdown-only bug then it would have been discovered a long time ago -- a quick glance at the viability ranking thread for AAA reveals that Sheer Force Meloetta is a viable set. SF-boosted Relic Song hits harder than Hyper Voice, so surely an AAA player would have noted the lack of transformation and brought it up if it was really a bug?
+3 252 SpA Manaphy (Absolite/Sceptilite) Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Venusaur (Red Orb): 187-220 (51.3 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Errr. Yes, it survives one turn against +3? Doesn't even need to be Specially Defensive.
+3 252 SpA Manaphy (Absolite/Sceptilite) Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Venusaur (Red Orb): 259-305 (71.1 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Loses to Sceptilite, though.
I'm also baffled that you're implicitly characterizing Red Orb Hippowdon as a "bizarre nonsense 'mon", among other things that hard-walls Keldeo. Red Orb Hippowdon is an all-around excellent wall that can tank literally anything any of the Pixilate Extreme Speeders throws out and is still pretty solid against Aerilate Extreme Speeder builds, tanks Glalitite Weavile, hard-walls Keldeo if it's not, like, Hidden Power Ground or Focus Blast (Which struggles against Blissey...), and in general is a solid wall that only dislikes Ground attacks and a handful of specific Blue Orb Pokemon.
I'm not talking about "hypothetical niche crap". I'm talking about things I know are good that Keldeo is utterly useless against, making it nearly impossible for it to contribute anything prior to them being cleared away by its teammates.
I think you mean Grass coverage for Grass Knot.
Thundurus doesn't have the same capacity to keep its checks scared to even switch in that Manaphy does. Zygarde can switch into a Thunder fearlessly if it hasn't Mega Evolved yet, and is basically only really concerned by the possibility of Hidden Power Ice. (Post-Mega Evolution, it's now concerned about the possibility of being randomly screwed over by Thunder Paralyzing it and then being Fully Paralyzed, admittedly, though it also isn't as concerned by Hidden Power Ice) Zygarde can't safely switch into even Sceptilite Manaphy for fear of Scald Burning it, neutering it for the rest of the match/until a cleric can fix it.
There's also the more subtle flaw with Pidgeotite Thundurus that Pidgeotite puts in amazing work on several other Pokemon like Gengar and Mew, where Absolite and Sceptilite are nearly free on Manaphy, with few other very good Pokemon wanting to run either one. Thundurus gets good damage out of Pidgeotite, but doesn't get to do things like put checks to sleep. It just gets raw, reliable firepower. (Well, and Thunder has better Paralysis odds than Thunderbolt, admittedly)
More generally, Thundurus' STAB is literally useless against both Ground types in general and Sceptilite users. Manaphy's STAB is only useless when Red Orb is involved. A team can have multiple stops to Thundurus' STAB, and only the one to Manaphy's. Having a stronger STAB avails you nothing if you can't use it.
... I'm having difficulty imagining why Blue Orb would be the primary/default way to wall -atespeeders. Red Orb provides +20 Defense, immunity to being Burned by Sacred Fire/resistance to Fire generally, and provides resistance to both Pixilate and Refrigerate all by itself. The only things it doesn't contribute to checking directly, aside from the +20 Defense, are Aerilate and Arceus' Normal Extreme Speed, and Aerilate is overall less popular than Pixilate thanks to resulting in a double weakness on the most popular -atespeeders (Including a horrible double weakness to Stealth Rock on Arcanine and Entei), while Arceus can be handled by a fairly generic Steel type or something like an Aggronite Ghost type. (Gourgeist is a fairly good Aggronite user)
I don't even have a Blue Orb Pokemon on my team, and never have, and I've never found -atespeed to be an overwhelmingly problematic threat after Dragonite and Lucario were banned.
I have one check to -atespeed -Red Orb Hippowdon. If you're generous and count Altarianite Zygarde as a check -which is silly, since it loses to Altarianite Entei and Arcanine, among other flaws- then I guess I have 2? If we stretch the definition I guess Sablenite Zapdos can be considered a check to Aerilate Extreme Speeders, but honestly it's not really a check to any of them except certain Aerilate Zygarde builds that are rare.
I'm not even sure why you'd stack Extreme Speed like that. It seems incredibly vulnerable to Stealth Rock/being faced with one good Physical wall. Having a Special attacker ready to take advantage has its own flaws -for one thing, Skarmory has U-Turn, so a team with Blue Orb Skarmory can use prediction to bring in a counter to your Special attacker pretty easily- and just in general it seems a sub-optimal strategy that maybe is fairly effective against pure offense teams. I question even that, though, given things like Glalitite Weavile being common on offense teams anyway and its Fake Out being murderous against Zygarde and Pinsirite builds. Hell, it has Feint, which has the same priority as Extreme Speed, and I've seen Fake Out+Feint Weavile.
Trying to see if anyone has tested it on-cart led me to this link
Sheer Force link
which seems to indicate that, yes, Sheer Force blocking Meloetta's transformation is cart-correct behavior.
... in Generation V, anyway. I can't find if anyone's bothered to test it for Gen VI, though, so I'm still wondering if this is correct behavior in the current generation.
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
Viability rankings have finally been updated upon repeated request by certain individuals (you assholes know who they are, spambotting my fucking skype).
Changes
Weavile A --> A+
Entei A --> A+
Keldeo A- --> A
Skarmory A- --> A
Latios A- --> B+
Metagross A --> A-
Diggersby A- --> B+
Blaziken B+ --> B
Snorlax B+ --> B
Slowking B+ --> B
Jirachi B+ --> A-
Aerodactyl --> B-
Klinklang --> C
Genesect B --> Unranked
Kyurem-Black B- --> D
Deoxys-Normal D --> Unranked
Several misc mega stone changes have been made, especially in the top mons. If there's any problems with mega stones, such as wrong or outclassed stones, shoot me a message on showdown (don't clog the thread with a change or two).
Genesect, Kyube, and Deo-N are all outclassed to varying degrees and that's why they were moved without announcement.
A new slate will wait, as some issues are being resolved with the rankings rn. If you have nominations, feel free to post them however!
Changes
Several misc mega stone changes have been made, especially in the top mons. If there's any problems with mega stones, such as wrong or outclassed stones, shoot me a message on showdown (don't clog the thread with a change or two).
Genesect, Kyube, and Deo-N are all outclassed to varying degrees and that's why they were moved without announcement.
A new slate will wait, as some issues are being resolved with the rankings rn. If you have nominations, feel free to post them however!
LEL (Xerneas) @ Leftovers / Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Block
- Rest
- Moonblast
- Geomancy
Forgive me for posting what appears to be a top tier sh*tmon, and understand that this set is incredibly effective at taking advantage of anything remotely passive. Once you've trapped something you just mindlessly spam geomancy until you're ready to win, then you click moonblast. Once it gets going the only real stop is roar latiasite-Heatran, since:
252+ Atk Pixilate (Altarianite) Entei Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Fairy Aura Xerneas: 211-249 (46.3 - 54.7%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Power Herb is not that necessary, though its use allows you to set up in the face of most special attackers, who would other wise be KOing after the charge turn.
I actually think this set is better than regular GeoXern in this meta because of how easily the offensive power Herb set is checked by all the red-orb walls and blissey.
Give it a shot and enjoy plundering all the people trying to use stall.
Run Calm Mind instead of Geomancy, since this set's a stallbreaker it doesn't need the Speed.
I'd like to use Jirachi more, what would be some good mega stones for it?
I'd like to use Jirachi more, what would be some good mega stones for it?
So I was reading through the OP and starting noticing how spread out the information was. A lot of the details that are relevant to each other (ban information, restrictions, etc.) were spread out between like two or three places in the thread, and stuff like the Mega Stone effects were sort of inaccessible (non-alphabetical order, hard to read). I started tidying it up a bit, condensing some stuff, but then it turned into a big project. Turns out I really like formatting haha. :P
You don't have to use any of it, Ghoul King, but I think it's a little more clear to new players than the current OP. Here's the code and visual preview: the images are condensed because they're in a hide tag but they look legible in the post preview.
Note: I didn't include the stone/orb viability rankings because I couldn't copy the formatting. I think it might make more sense underneath the main viability rankings, though.
You don't have to use any of it, Ghoul King, but I think it's a little more clear to new players than the current OP. Here's the code and visual preview: the images are condensed because they're in a hide tag but they look legible in the post preview.
Note: I didn't include the stone/orb viability rankings because I couldn't copy the formatting. I think it might make more sense underneath the main viability rankings, though.
Code:
[SIZE=1]By Ghoul King and [USER=203169]FlameUser64[/USER]
Approved by [USER=41805]Eevee General[/USER][/SIZE]
[CENTER][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/AGjV485.png?1[/IMG]
[SIZE=1]Banner graciously provided by [USER=235009]Ransei[/USER]. Thanks Ransei![/SIZE]
[/CENTER]
Mix-and-Mega is an Ubers-based metagame that allows you to use any Mega Stone (or Orb) on any fully-evolved Pokémon, with usual limit of one Mega Evolution removed. When that Pokémon then Mega Evolves or undergoes Primal Reversion, it undergoes the same stat modifications that the original user of that Mega Stone/Orb does, along with its ability and any type changes that the Mega Evolved/Primal Reversion form has compared to the base species. For instance:
[CENTER][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/liaVhlv.png[/IMG][/CENTER]
In order to Mega Evolve with a non-native Stone or Orb, you [B]cannot[/B] be:
[LIST]
[*]An unevolved Pokémon (ie: Chansey, Pikachu)
[*]A Mega Evolution whose stats become a value higher than 255 or lower value than 1 (ie: Sablenite Shuckle)
[*]A Mega Evolution that already exists on your team (ie: two Pokemon with Pinsirite)
[*]A Pokémon on the Mega Evolution banlist (below)
[/LIST]
[B][SIZE=7]Clauses, Bans, Rules:[/SIZE]
Clauses[/B]: [URL='http://www.smogon.com/xyhub/tiers']Ubers clauses[/URL], Shadow Tag clause, Mega Stone/Orb Clause (only one of each stone on a team)
[B]General Bans[/B]: Mega Rayquaza, Gengarite, Swagger, Electrify, Zap Cannon, Dynamic Punch
[B]Restricted Stones[/B]: Beedrillite, Blazikenite, Kangaskhanite, Mawilite, Medichamite (can only be used on certain Pokémon)
[B]Mega Evolution Bans[/B]: The following Pokémon are barred from non-native Mega Evolution:
[LIST]
[*][IMG]http://www.pokemontrash.com/pokemon-x-y/images/sprites-mini/493.png[/IMG] [URL='http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/official-oras-ou-banlist.3491371/']OU-banned Pokémon[/URL]
[*][IMG]http://sprites.pokecheck.org/icon/646-black.png[/IMG] Kyurem-Black
[*][IMG]http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/289.png[/IMG] Slaking
[*][IMG]http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/486.png[/IMG] Regigigas
[*][IMG]http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/488.png[/IMG] Cresselia
[*][IMG]http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/149.png[/IMG] Dragonite
[*][IMG]http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/448.png[/IMG] Lucario
[*][IMG]http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/235.png[/IMG] Smeargle
[/LIST]
[B]Rules[/B]: The following mechanics also apply:
[LIST]
[*]You may Mega Evolve any number of Pokemon on the same team
[*]If you use Red/Blue Orb, the transformation occurs instantly upon switch-in
[*]If you use a Mega Stone or Orb that gives you a secondary typing that's the same as your primary typing, you no longer have a secondary typing (ie: Red Orb Charizard)
[*]A Mega Stone or Orb cannot in any way removed from its holder if the holder can Mega Evolve/Primal Revert with it, regardless of whether the holder is the "correct" species or not
[*]If a Pokémon with multiple Formes that it can change between mid-battle Mega Evolves, it is locked into a Mega based on that Forme. (ie: Meloetta) Transform/Imposter, Protean, and Color Change are not Forme changes
[/LIST]
[B][SIZE=7]Mega Stone Changes:[/SIZE][/B]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/L8NyuS2.png[/IMG]
[B][SIZE=7]Council:[/SIZE][/B]
[USER=223597]Ghoul King[/USER]
[USER=250201]InfernapeTropius11[/USER]
[USER=210102]AllJokesAside[/USER]
[USER=204913]thdhted[/USER]
[USER=297239]Quantum Tesseract[/USER]
[B][SIZE=7]Resources: [/SIZE][/B][hide=Interesting Concepts]Altarianite Heatran:
Fire/Fairy
Pixilate
91/130/126/170/106/77
Newly-notable moves:
Heatran's entire Physical movepool, Nature Power, possibly Uproar
Pixitran has been a thing in various other OMs, and now you can run it with Fairy-typing! Whether that actually makes it better, I'm not sure. 170 base Sp. Atk does hit very hard though, and 91/126/106 bulk is pretty awesome.
Scizorite Gardevoir:
Technician
68/85/105/135/135/90
Newly-notable moves:
Draining Kiss, Icy Wind, Hidden Power, Charge Beam
A bulkier Gardevoir that makes up for a relative lack of speed and power with Technician Draining Kiss for self-healing and better coverage in Technician Hidden Power. Whether this is actually a good idea, I'm not sure.
Scizorite Gallade:
Technician
68/145/105/75/135/90
Newly-notable moves:
Shadow Sneak, Dual Chop, Bulldoze, Rock Tomb, Power-up Punch, Thief
Bulky Gallade that lacks speed, but has a great movepool to abuse with Technician, including accurate Rock/Ground coverage that also makes foes slower than you.
Aerodactylite Gallade:
Tough Claws
68/155/85/75/135/100
Fun fact, Shadow Sneak is actually a contact move for some reason, giving Gallade a wide variety of options to abuse with Tough Claws. While Rock/Ground coverage is a non-option, there's always Drain Punch, Close Combat, Knock Off, Zen Headbutt, Shadow Sneak, and Power-up Punch.
Altarianite Gallade:
Psychic/Fairy
Pixilate
68/165/85/105/115/80
Newly-notable moves:
Return, Gallade's entire Special movepool
It's unfortunate that Gallade's primary typing isn't Fighting, or this would be a very fun combination. Still, Pixilate Return off of 165 base Attack seems suitably frightening. Probably a subpar Mega, though.
Aggronite Avalugg:
Ice/Steel
Filter
95/147/234/44/66/28
An Avalugg that still dies to any Special Attack. Still, it tanks neutral hits better than Mega Aggron and also has access to Recover and Rapid Spin. The double weaknesses to Fire and Fighting are concerning, though Ground is its only other weakness.
Altarianite Entei:
Fire/Fairy
Pixilate
115/155/105/130/75/100
Newly-notable moves:
Extreme Speed, Return/Frustration
A good PixiSpeed user, although the lack of good boosting is a bit of a letdown. 115/105 physical bulk is pretty nice.
Sceptilite Jirachi:
Steel/Dragon
Lightning Rod
100/125/110/140/100/125
Newly-notable moves:
Draco Meteor
Speed, bulk, and Special Attack. Also switch in on a TWave paraflincher and get a free Special Attack boost!
Ampharosite Jirachi:
Steel/Dragon
Mold Breaker
100/120/120/150/120/90
Newly-notable moves:
Draco Meteor
Essentially Dialga with 20 more base Sp. Def and a better Ability. Funny how that works, isn't it? Of course, unlike Dialga, Ampharosite Jirachi can't hold other items.
Houndoominite Ninetales:
Drought -> Solar Power
73/76/115/111/110/120
I feel this is self-explanatory. Sets its own sun, then proceeds to nuke things with Solar Power-boosted everything. 73/115/110 bulk isn't bad either, and 120 base Speed is quite solid. Ninetales even has Nasty Plot, but of course you don't want to be wasting your Sun turns boosting while taking Solar Power damage.
Glalitite Froslass:
Refrigerate
70/120/70/120/70/130
Newly-notable moves:
Return
Notice how this is basically just Mega Glalie but with worse bulk and more Speed. Oh, and a Pursuit/Knock Off weakness.
Glalitite Kyurem:
Refrigerate
125/170/90/170/90/115
Newly-notable moves:
Hyper Voice, Return
This unholy terror is basically Aerilate Mega Rayquaza, Ice edition. Dual 170 offences with 115 base Speed are suitably terrifying, and Refrigerate gives it the powerful Ice STAB it used to lack. Refrigerate Hyper Voice and Earth Power is near-perfect coverage by itself, leaving the other slots for filler moves.
Altarianite Kyurem:
Dragon/Fairy
Pixilate
125/170/110/170/90/95
Newly-notable moves:
Return, Hyper Voice
Like Glalitite Kyurem but with Defence instead of Speed, and Fairy-type instead of Ice-type. It also gets a better defensive typing, but its Speed tier leaves something to be desired.
Pidgeotite Victini:
No Guard
100/100/105/165/110/120
Newly-notable moves:
Focus Blast, Inferno
Feel free to spam high base power special moves off of Victini's 165 base Sp. Atk. And with 120 base Speed, you can even rely on your speed to get you out alive. This also comes with a slight increase in Victini's already-decent bulk.
Heracronite Ferrothorn:
Skill Link
74/154/171/54/126/10
Newly-notable moves:
Bullet Seed, Pin Missile
Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball hits even harder with its even lower base Speed, and Bullet Seed is flat-out superior to Power Whip thanks to Skill Link. Ferrothorn does miss the lack of Leftovers recovery, but it still has Leech Seed and its 74/171/126 bulk is pretty difficult to wear down.
Sablenite Blissey:
Magic Bounce
255/20/60/95/185/25
Newly-notable moves:
Blissey's entire Special movepool
With an immunity to status moves and obscene 255/60/185 bulk, Blissey is difficult to break on both the Physical and Special sides. On the Special side, even Pidgeotite Keldeo's Focus Blast can't 2HKO Blissey. On the Physical side, if you aren't using a Fighting-type move or a Mega, you're in for a rough time.
Sablenite Sylveon:
Magic Bounce
95/75/115/130/180/30
Newly-notable moves:
Moonblast over Hyper Voice
Somewhat similar to Sablenite Blissey. With extreme defences and high Special Attack along with immunity to status moves, Sylveon can freely set up in your face and destroy everything. It is admittedly less bulky than Blissey, but its high power makes up for it.
Lopunnite Meloetta-Pirouette:
Scrappy
100/188/100/77/77/158
Its dual STABs now grant perfect neutral coverage, meaning it has far less 4MSS than it used to. Return, Close Combat or Drain Punch, Relic Song, Filler. Even Quick Attack isn't terrible as priority with Scrappy, although the inability to hit anything for SE damage sucks. It also takes 2 turns for it to Mega Evolve, as it has to use Relic Song first.
Latiasite Heatran:
Flash Fire -> Levitate
91/110/136/160/126/77
Now with even more bulk, 160 base Sp. Atk, and no more 4x ground weakness! It's still weak to Fighting and Water, however, and is now neutral to Fire. It also still has to fear Mold Breaker Ground moves, so a type-changing Stone is arguably more reliable protection from Ground moves.
Metagrossite Absol:
Tough Claws
65/140/80/85/80/115
Absol now has an ability that's more useful to it and much-needed bulk and speed. Magic Bounce was a pretty bad ability for a Pokémon with 65/60/60 defences. Instead, Absol now has Tough Claws, letting it hit harder than its standard Mega form can, along with slightly better bulk to enable it to almost take a hit and set up a Swords Dance. At +2, Absol is a Pokémon to be afraid of, with 115 base Speed backing its Sucker Punch to ensure you don't hit before it does, and Play Rough and Superpower for coverage.
However, Metagrossite Absol is very, very vulnerable to Low Kick. And, of course, in MnM 115 base Speed isn't quite as scary as it is in standard OU.
Salamencite Togekiss:
Aerilate
85/60/145/130/125/100
Newly-notable moves:
Hyper Voice, potentially Extreme Speed
Nasty Plot, Roost, Hyper Voice, Dazzling Gleam. You're welcome. You could also run Stored Power over Dazzling Gleam if you so choose, which gets you resisted by different things but almost guarantees that you can muscle past them after enough boosts.
Salamencite Gyarados:
Intimidate -> Aerilate
95/135/129/70/110/101
Newly-notable moves:
Return
Step one: Switch in almost for free with Intimidate.
Step two: Mega Evolve and boost with Dragon Dance.
Step three: Sweep with Return/Waterfall.
Salamencite Gliscor:
Aerilate
75/105/175/55/85/115
Newly-notable moves:
Return, Baton Pass
Set up a Swords Dance with your 75/175 physical bulk, then sweep with Aerilate Return and Earthquake. If your opponent sends in something that walls you, Baton Pass the Attack boosts to another sweeper or wallbreaker.
Slowbronite Blissey:
Shell Armor
255/10/80/105/135/55
Newly-notable moves:
Hyper Voice, Flamethrower, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Dazzling Gleam, Focus Blast, Calm Mind
Now even crits can't stop Blissey from walling! 255/80 physical bulk is very, very good, better than Eviolite Chansey in fact. While it is weaker in Special bulk than Eviolite Chansey, that's practically a non-issue since its bulk is extreme regardless. Also comes with a very usable base 105 Special Attack.
Glalitite Weavile:
Refrigerate
70/160/65/85/85/145
Newly-notable moves:
Return, Quick Attack
Refrigerate Return for days. Dies easily though, specifically to any Vacuum Wave or Mach Punch, and almost any Pixilate Quick Attack.
Pidgeotite Porygon-Z:
No Guard
85/80/75/200/85/110
Newly-notable moves:
Blizzard, Zap Cannon
Boost with Nasty Plot, then nuke everything with Zap Cannon, Blizzard, and Shadow Ball or Psyshock off of your 200 base Sp. Atk. STAB is pointless since Tri Attack isn't any stronger than Zap Cannon. Lack of Focus Blast sucks, but oh well. Also, 110 base Speed is sorta sadface, but it still has scary wallbreaking power.
Pidgeotite Blissey:
No Guard
255/10/15/140/135/75
Newly-notable moves:
Hyper Voice, Blizzard, Fire Blast, Thunder, Focus Blast, Calm Mind
Blissey has amazing bulk to let it set up Calm Minds (though it still cannot wall physical attacks all that well), coupled with an awesome Special movepool to abuse with No Guard.
Banettite Sableye:
Prankster
50/125/85/75/85/60
Newly-notable moves:
Sableye's entire Physical movepool
The only thing that really makes this Sableye unhappy is that Sableye does not learn either Bulk Up nor Swords Dance. However, it does at least have Power-Up Punch, oddly enough. Overall, this is just Sableye but slightly better in every way. More bulk, enough Attack to actually leave a mark, still has Prankster Recover and Prankster Will-o-Wisp. Its problem is that it has a serious case of 4MSS, wanting to boost, heal, Sub, and spam dual STAB priority.
Banettite Hitmontop:
Intimidate -> Prankster
50/145/105/35/130/80
Newly-notable moves: Bulk Up, Mach Punch, Bullet Punch, Sucker Punch
Prankster Bulk up, then spam priority.
Scizorite Pangoro:
Mold Breaker/Scrappy -> Technician
95/144/118/79/91/68
Newly-notable moves:
Storm Throw, Circle Throw, Dual Chop, Aerial Ace, Bulldoze, Rock Tomb, Power-up Punch
Technician Storm Throw off of 144 base Attack is quite powerful, and Bulldoze and Rock Tomb make for nice coverage options with their ability to make the foe slower than you. 95/118/91 bulk isn't too terrible, either. Pre-Mega Mold Breaker or Scrappy could be useful to catch a foe who would otherwise prove a nuisance. Mold Breaker especially might be useful to get a Parting Shot past a slow Magic Bounce user if you really just don't want to be there right now. Potentially countered by Slowbronite Blissey due to Shell Armor, and also not quite as scary as other Megas out there.[/hide][B][URL='http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/mix-and-mega-%E2%80%94-now-with-primals.3529352/']Original Thread[/URL] [/B](created by [USER=203169]FlameUser64[/USER])
[B][URL='http://aqua.psim.us/']Aqua Server[/URL][/B] (playable along with a Doubles version)
[B][URL='https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_vi_pBiGhddxgXhSCql_EmIaF8jZno2VrkT5qB8osAU/edit#gid=0']Mega Stone Benefits[/URL][/B] (created by [USER=231825]Tyrell D. Barnes[/USER])
[B]Mega Stone Viability Rankings [/B](created by [USER=247594]Lukethehedgehog[/USER])By Ghoul King and FlameUser64
Approved by Eevee General
Mix-and-Mega is an Ubers-based metagame that allows you to use any Mega Stone (or Orb) on any fully-evolved Pokémon, with usual limit of one Mega Evolution removed. When that Pokémon then Mega Evolves or undergoes Primal Reversion, it undergoes the same stat modifications that the original user of that Mega Stone/Orb does, along with its ability and any type changes that the Mega Evolved/Primal Reversion form has compared to the base species. For instance:
In order to Mega Evolve with a non-native Stone or Orb, you cannot be:
Clauses: Ubers clauses, Shadow Tag clause, Mega Stone/Orb Clause (only one of each stone on a team)
General Bans: Mega Rayquaza, Gengarite, Swagger, Electrify, Zap Cannon, Dynamic Punch
Restricted Stones: Beedrillite, Blazikenite, Kangaskhanite, Mawilite, Medichamite (can only be used on certain Pokémon)
Mega Evolution Bans: The following Pokémon are barred from non-native Mega Evolution:
Council:
Ghoul King
InfernapeTropius11
AllJokesAside
thdhted
Quantum Tesseract
Resources:
Original Thread (created by FlameUser64)
Aqua Server (playable along with a Doubles version)
Mega Stone Benefits (created by Tyrell D. Barnes)
Mega Stone Viability Rankings (created by Lukethehedgehog)
Approved by Eevee General
Mix-and-Mega is an Ubers-based metagame that allows you to use any Mega Stone (or Orb) on any fully-evolved Pokémon, with usual limit of one Mega Evolution removed. When that Pokémon then Mega Evolves or undergoes Primal Reversion, it undergoes the same stat modifications that the original user of that Mega Stone/Orb does, along with its ability and any type changes that the Mega Evolved/Primal Reversion form has compared to the base species. For instance:
- An unevolved Pokémon (ie: Chansey, Pikachu)
- A Mega Evolution whose stats become a value higher than 255 or lower value than 1 (ie: Sablenite Shuckle)
- A Mega Evolution that already exists on your team (ie: two Pokemon with Pinsirite)
- A Pokémon on the Mega Evolution banlist (below)
Clauses: Ubers clauses, Shadow Tag clause, Mega Stone/Orb Clause (only one of each stone on a team)
General Bans: Mega Rayquaza, Gengarite, Swagger, Electrify, Zap Cannon, Dynamic Punch
Restricted Stones: Beedrillite, Blazikenite, Kangaskhanite, Mawilite, Medichamite (can only be used on certain Pokémon)
Mega Evolution Bans: The following Pokémon are barred from non-native Mega Evolution:
-
OU-banned Pokémon
-
Kyurem-Black
-
Slaking
-
Regigigas
-
Cresselia
-
Dragonite
-
Lucario
-
Smeargle
- You may Mega Evolve any number of Pokemon on the same team
- If you use Red/Blue Orb, the transformation occurs instantly upon switch-in
- If you use a Mega Stone or Orb that gives you a secondary typing that's the same as your primary typing, you no longer have a secondary typing (ie: Red Orb Charizard)
- A Mega Stone or Orb cannot in any way removed from its holder if the holder can Mega Evolve/Primal Revert with it, regardless of whether the holder is the "correct" species or not
- If a Pokémon with multiple Formes that it can change between mid-battle Mega Evolves, it is locked into a Mega based on that Forme. (ie: Meloetta) Transform/Imposter, Protean, and Color Change are not Forme changes
Council:
Ghoul King
InfernapeTropius11
AllJokesAside
thdhted
Quantum Tesseract
Resources:
Altarianite Heatran:
Fire/Fairy
Pixilate
91/130/126/170/106/77
Newly-notable moves:
Heatran's entire Physical movepool, Nature Power, possibly Uproar
Pixitran has been a thing in various other OMs, and now you can run it with Fairy-typing! Whether that actually makes it better, I'm not sure. 170 base Sp. Atk does hit very hard though, and 91/126/106 bulk is pretty awesome.
Scizorite Gardevoir:
Technician
68/85/105/135/135/90
Newly-notable moves:
Draining Kiss, Icy Wind, Hidden Power, Charge Beam
A bulkier Gardevoir that makes up for a relative lack of speed and power with Technician Draining Kiss for self-healing and better coverage in Technician Hidden Power. Whether this is actually a good idea, I'm not sure.
Scizorite Gallade:
Technician
68/145/105/75/135/90
Newly-notable moves:
Shadow Sneak, Dual Chop, Bulldoze, Rock Tomb, Power-up Punch, Thief
Bulky Gallade that lacks speed, but has a great movepool to abuse with Technician, including accurate Rock/Ground coverage that also makes foes slower than you.
Aerodactylite Gallade:
Tough Claws
68/155/85/75/135/100
Fun fact, Shadow Sneak is actually a contact move for some reason, giving Gallade a wide variety of options to abuse with Tough Claws. While Rock/Ground coverage is a non-option, there's always Drain Punch, Close Combat, Knock Off, Zen Headbutt, Shadow Sneak, and Power-up Punch.
Altarianite Gallade:
Psychic/Fairy
Pixilate
68/165/85/105/115/80
Newly-notable moves:
Return, Gallade's entire Special movepool
It's unfortunate that Gallade's primary typing isn't Fighting, or this would be a very fun combination. Still, Pixilate Return off of 165 base Attack seems suitably frightening. Probably a subpar Mega, though.
Aggronite Avalugg:
Ice/Steel
Filter
95/147/234/44/66/28
An Avalugg that still dies to any Special Attack. Still, it tanks neutral hits better than Mega Aggron and also has access to Recover and Rapid Spin. The double weaknesses to Fire and Fighting are concerning, though Ground is its only other weakness.
Altarianite Entei:
Fire/Fairy
Pixilate
115/155/105/130/75/100
Newly-notable moves:
Extreme Speed, Return/Frustration
A good PixiSpeed user, although the lack of good boosting is a bit of a letdown. 115/105 physical bulk is pretty nice.
Sceptilite Jirachi:
Steel/Dragon
Lightning Rod
100/125/110/140/100/125
Newly-notable moves:
Draco Meteor
Speed, bulk, and Special Attack. Also switch in on a TWave paraflincher and get a free Special Attack boost!
Ampharosite Jirachi:
Steel/Dragon
Mold Breaker
100/120/120/150/120/90
Newly-notable moves:
Draco Meteor
Essentially Dialga with 20 more base Sp. Def and a better Ability. Funny how that works, isn't it? Of course, unlike Dialga, Ampharosite Jirachi can't hold other items.
Houndoominite Ninetales:
Drought -> Solar Power
73/76/115/111/110/120
I feel this is self-explanatory. Sets its own sun, then proceeds to nuke things with Solar Power-boosted everything. 73/115/110 bulk isn't bad either, and 120 base Speed is quite solid. Ninetales even has Nasty Plot, but of course you don't want to be wasting your Sun turns boosting while taking Solar Power damage.
Glalitite Froslass:
Refrigerate
70/120/70/120/70/130
Newly-notable moves:
Return
Notice how this is basically just Mega Glalie but with worse bulk and more Speed. Oh, and a Pursuit/Knock Off weakness.
Glalitite Kyurem:
Refrigerate
125/170/90/170/90/115
Newly-notable moves:
Hyper Voice, Return
This unholy terror is basically Aerilate Mega Rayquaza, Ice edition. Dual 170 offences with 115 base Speed are suitably terrifying, and Refrigerate gives it the powerful Ice STAB it used to lack. Refrigerate Hyper Voice and Earth Power is near-perfect coverage by itself, leaving the other slots for filler moves.
Altarianite Kyurem:
Dragon/Fairy
Pixilate
125/170/110/170/90/95
Newly-notable moves:
Return, Hyper Voice
Like Glalitite Kyurem but with Defence instead of Speed, and Fairy-type instead of Ice-type. It also gets a better defensive typing, but its Speed tier leaves something to be desired.
Pidgeotite Victini:
No Guard
100/100/105/165/110/120
Newly-notable moves:
Focus Blast, Inferno
Feel free to spam high base power special moves off of Victini's 165 base Sp. Atk. And with 120 base Speed, you can even rely on your speed to get you out alive. This also comes with a slight increase in Victini's already-decent bulk.
Heracronite Ferrothorn:
Skill Link
74/154/171/54/126/10
Newly-notable moves:
Bullet Seed, Pin Missile
Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball hits even harder with its even lower base Speed, and Bullet Seed is flat-out superior to Power Whip thanks to Skill Link. Ferrothorn does miss the lack of Leftovers recovery, but it still has Leech Seed and its 74/171/126 bulk is pretty difficult to wear down.
Sablenite Blissey:
Magic Bounce
255/20/60/95/185/25
Newly-notable moves:
Blissey's entire Special movepool
With an immunity to status moves and obscene 255/60/185 bulk, Blissey is difficult to break on both the Physical and Special sides. On the Special side, even Pidgeotite Keldeo's Focus Blast can't 2HKO Blissey. On the Physical side, if you aren't using a Fighting-type move or a Mega, you're in for a rough time.
Sablenite Sylveon:
Magic Bounce
95/75/115/130/180/30
Newly-notable moves:
Moonblast over Hyper Voice
Somewhat similar to Sablenite Blissey. With extreme defences and high Special Attack along with immunity to status moves, Sylveon can freely set up in your face and destroy everything. It is admittedly less bulky than Blissey, but its high power makes up for it.
Lopunnite Meloetta-Pirouette:
Scrappy
100/188/100/77/77/158
Its dual STABs now grant perfect neutral coverage, meaning it has far less 4MSS than it used to. Return, Close Combat or Drain Punch, Relic Song, Filler. Even Quick Attack isn't terrible as priority with Scrappy, although the inability to hit anything for SE damage sucks. It also takes 2 turns for it to Mega Evolve, as it has to use Relic Song first.
Latiasite Heatran:
Flash Fire -> Levitate
91/110/136/160/126/77
Now with even more bulk, 160 base Sp. Atk, and no more 4x ground weakness! It's still weak to Fighting and Water, however, and is now neutral to Fire. It also still has to fear Mold Breaker Ground moves, so a type-changing Stone is arguably more reliable protection from Ground moves.
Metagrossite Absol:
Tough Claws
65/140/80/85/80/115
Absol now has an ability that's more useful to it and much-needed bulk and speed. Magic Bounce was a pretty bad ability for a Pokémon with 65/60/60 defences. Instead, Absol now has Tough Claws, letting it hit harder than its standard Mega form can, along with slightly better bulk to enable it to almost take a hit and set up a Swords Dance. At +2, Absol is a Pokémon to be afraid of, with 115 base Speed backing its Sucker Punch to ensure you don't hit before it does, and Play Rough and Superpower for coverage.
However, Metagrossite Absol is very, very vulnerable to Low Kick. And, of course, in MnM 115 base Speed isn't quite as scary as it is in standard OU.
Salamencite Togekiss:
Aerilate
85/60/145/130/125/100
Newly-notable moves:
Hyper Voice, potentially Extreme Speed
Nasty Plot, Roost, Hyper Voice, Dazzling Gleam. You're welcome. You could also run Stored Power over Dazzling Gleam if you so choose, which gets you resisted by different things but almost guarantees that you can muscle past them after enough boosts.
Salamencite Gyarados:
Intimidate -> Aerilate
95/135/129/70/110/101
Newly-notable moves:
Return
Step one: Switch in almost for free with Intimidate.
Step two: Mega Evolve and boost with Dragon Dance.
Step three: Sweep with Return/Waterfall.
Salamencite Gliscor:
Aerilate
75/105/175/55/85/115
Newly-notable moves:
Return, Baton Pass
Set up a Swords Dance with your 75/175 physical bulk, then sweep with Aerilate Return and Earthquake. If your opponent sends in something that walls you, Baton Pass the Attack boosts to another sweeper or wallbreaker.
Slowbronite Blissey:
Shell Armor
255/10/80/105/135/55
Newly-notable moves:
Hyper Voice, Flamethrower, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Dazzling Gleam, Focus Blast, Calm Mind
Now even crits can't stop Blissey from walling! 255/80 physical bulk is very, very good, better than Eviolite Chansey in fact. While it is weaker in Special bulk than Eviolite Chansey, that's practically a non-issue since its bulk is extreme regardless. Also comes with a very usable base 105 Special Attack.
Glalitite Weavile:
Refrigerate
70/160/65/85/85/145
Newly-notable moves:
Return, Quick Attack
Refrigerate Return for days. Dies easily though, specifically to any Vacuum Wave or Mach Punch, and almost any Pixilate Quick Attack.
Pidgeotite Porygon-Z:
No Guard
85/80/75/200/85/110
Newly-notable moves:
Blizzard, Zap Cannon
Boost with Nasty Plot, then nuke everything with Zap Cannon, Blizzard, and Shadow Ball or Psyshock off of your 200 base Sp. Atk. STAB is pointless since Tri Attack isn't any stronger than Zap Cannon. Lack of Focus Blast sucks, but oh well. Also, 110 base Speed is sorta sadface, but it still has scary wallbreaking power.
Pidgeotite Blissey:
No Guard
255/10/15/140/135/75
Newly-notable moves:
Hyper Voice, Blizzard, Fire Blast, Thunder, Focus Blast, Calm Mind
Blissey has amazing bulk to let it set up Calm Minds (though it still cannot wall physical attacks all that well), coupled with an awesome Special movepool to abuse with No Guard.
Banettite Sableye:
Prankster
50/125/85/75/85/60
Newly-notable moves:
Sableye's entire Physical movepool
The only thing that really makes this Sableye unhappy is that Sableye does not learn either Bulk Up nor Swords Dance. However, it does at least have Power-Up Punch, oddly enough. Overall, this is just Sableye but slightly better in every way. More bulk, enough Attack to actually leave a mark, still has Prankster Recover and Prankster Will-o-Wisp. Its problem is that it has a serious case of 4MSS, wanting to boost, heal, Sub, and spam dual STAB priority.
Banettite Hitmontop:
Intimidate -> Prankster
50/145/105/35/130/80
Newly-notable moves: Bulk Up, Mach Punch, Bullet Punch, Sucker Punch
Prankster Bulk up, then spam priority.
Scizorite Pangoro:
Mold Breaker/Scrappy -> Technician
95/144/118/79/91/68
Newly-notable moves:
Storm Throw, Circle Throw, Dual Chop, Aerial Ace, Bulldoze, Rock Tomb, Power-up Punch
Technician Storm Throw off of 144 base Attack is quite powerful, and Bulldoze and Rock Tomb make for nice coverage options with their ability to make the foe slower than you. 95/118/91 bulk isn't too terrible, either. Pre-Mega Mold Breaker or Scrappy could be useful to catch a foe who would otherwise prove a nuisance. Mold Breaker especially might be useful to get a Parting Shot past a slow Magic Bounce user if you really just don't want to be there right now. Potentially countered by Slowbronite Blissey due to Shell Armor, and also not quite as scary as other Megas out there.
Fire/Fairy
Pixilate
91/130/126/170/106/77
Newly-notable moves:
Heatran's entire Physical movepool, Nature Power, possibly Uproar
Pixitran has been a thing in various other OMs, and now you can run it with Fairy-typing! Whether that actually makes it better, I'm not sure. 170 base Sp. Atk does hit very hard though, and 91/126/106 bulk is pretty awesome.
Scizorite Gardevoir:
Technician
68/85/105/135/135/90
Newly-notable moves:
Draining Kiss, Icy Wind, Hidden Power, Charge Beam
A bulkier Gardevoir that makes up for a relative lack of speed and power with Technician Draining Kiss for self-healing and better coverage in Technician Hidden Power. Whether this is actually a good idea, I'm not sure.
Scizorite Gallade:
Technician
68/145/105/75/135/90
Newly-notable moves:
Shadow Sneak, Dual Chop, Bulldoze, Rock Tomb, Power-up Punch, Thief
Bulky Gallade that lacks speed, but has a great movepool to abuse with Technician, including accurate Rock/Ground coverage that also makes foes slower than you.
Aerodactylite Gallade:
Tough Claws
68/155/85/75/135/100
Fun fact, Shadow Sneak is actually a contact move for some reason, giving Gallade a wide variety of options to abuse with Tough Claws. While Rock/Ground coverage is a non-option, there's always Drain Punch, Close Combat, Knock Off, Zen Headbutt, Shadow Sneak, and Power-up Punch.
Altarianite Gallade:
Psychic/Fairy
Pixilate
68/165/85/105/115/80
Newly-notable moves:
Return, Gallade's entire Special movepool
It's unfortunate that Gallade's primary typing isn't Fighting, or this would be a very fun combination. Still, Pixilate Return off of 165 base Attack seems suitably frightening. Probably a subpar Mega, though.
Aggronite Avalugg:
Ice/Steel
Filter
95/147/234/44/66/28
An Avalugg that still dies to any Special Attack. Still, it tanks neutral hits better than Mega Aggron and also has access to Recover and Rapid Spin. The double weaknesses to Fire and Fighting are concerning, though Ground is its only other weakness.
Altarianite Entei:
Fire/Fairy
Pixilate
115/155/105/130/75/100
Newly-notable moves:
Extreme Speed, Return/Frustration
A good PixiSpeed user, although the lack of good boosting is a bit of a letdown. 115/105 physical bulk is pretty nice.
Sceptilite Jirachi:
Steel/Dragon
Lightning Rod
100/125/110/140/100/125
Newly-notable moves:
Draco Meteor
Speed, bulk, and Special Attack. Also switch in on a TWave paraflincher and get a free Special Attack boost!
Ampharosite Jirachi:
Steel/Dragon
Mold Breaker
100/120/120/150/120/90
Newly-notable moves:
Draco Meteor
Essentially Dialga with 20 more base Sp. Def and a better Ability. Funny how that works, isn't it? Of course, unlike Dialga, Ampharosite Jirachi can't hold other items.
Houndoominite Ninetales:
Drought -> Solar Power
73/76/115/111/110/120
I feel this is self-explanatory. Sets its own sun, then proceeds to nuke things with Solar Power-boosted everything. 73/115/110 bulk isn't bad either, and 120 base Speed is quite solid. Ninetales even has Nasty Plot, but of course you don't want to be wasting your Sun turns boosting while taking Solar Power damage.
Glalitite Froslass:
Refrigerate
70/120/70/120/70/130
Newly-notable moves:
Return
Notice how this is basically just Mega Glalie but with worse bulk and more Speed. Oh, and a Pursuit/Knock Off weakness.
Glalitite Kyurem:
Refrigerate
125/170/90/170/90/115
Newly-notable moves:
Hyper Voice, Return
This unholy terror is basically Aerilate Mega Rayquaza, Ice edition. Dual 170 offences with 115 base Speed are suitably terrifying, and Refrigerate gives it the powerful Ice STAB it used to lack. Refrigerate Hyper Voice and Earth Power is near-perfect coverage by itself, leaving the other slots for filler moves.
Altarianite Kyurem:
Dragon/Fairy
Pixilate
125/170/110/170/90/95
Newly-notable moves:
Return, Hyper Voice
Like Glalitite Kyurem but with Defence instead of Speed, and Fairy-type instead of Ice-type. It also gets a better defensive typing, but its Speed tier leaves something to be desired.
Pidgeotite Victini:
No Guard
100/100/105/165/110/120
Newly-notable moves:
Focus Blast, Inferno
Feel free to spam high base power special moves off of Victini's 165 base Sp. Atk. And with 120 base Speed, you can even rely on your speed to get you out alive. This also comes with a slight increase in Victini's already-decent bulk.
Heracronite Ferrothorn:
Skill Link
74/154/171/54/126/10
Newly-notable moves:
Bullet Seed, Pin Missile
Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball hits even harder with its even lower base Speed, and Bullet Seed is flat-out superior to Power Whip thanks to Skill Link. Ferrothorn does miss the lack of Leftovers recovery, but it still has Leech Seed and its 74/171/126 bulk is pretty difficult to wear down.
Sablenite Blissey:
Magic Bounce
255/20/60/95/185/25
Newly-notable moves:
Blissey's entire Special movepool
With an immunity to status moves and obscene 255/60/185 bulk, Blissey is difficult to break on both the Physical and Special sides. On the Special side, even Pidgeotite Keldeo's Focus Blast can't 2HKO Blissey. On the Physical side, if you aren't using a Fighting-type move or a Mega, you're in for a rough time.
Sablenite Sylveon:
Magic Bounce
95/75/115/130/180/30
Newly-notable moves:
Moonblast over Hyper Voice
Somewhat similar to Sablenite Blissey. With extreme defences and high Special Attack along with immunity to status moves, Sylveon can freely set up in your face and destroy everything. It is admittedly less bulky than Blissey, but its high power makes up for it.
Lopunnite Meloetta-Pirouette:
Scrappy
100/188/100/77/77/158
Its dual STABs now grant perfect neutral coverage, meaning it has far less 4MSS than it used to. Return, Close Combat or Drain Punch, Relic Song, Filler. Even Quick Attack isn't terrible as priority with Scrappy, although the inability to hit anything for SE damage sucks. It also takes 2 turns for it to Mega Evolve, as it has to use Relic Song first.
Latiasite Heatran:
Flash Fire -> Levitate
91/110/136/160/126/77
Now with even more bulk, 160 base Sp. Atk, and no more 4x ground weakness! It's still weak to Fighting and Water, however, and is now neutral to Fire. It also still has to fear Mold Breaker Ground moves, so a type-changing Stone is arguably more reliable protection from Ground moves.
Metagrossite Absol:
Tough Claws
65/140/80/85/80/115
Absol now has an ability that's more useful to it and much-needed bulk and speed. Magic Bounce was a pretty bad ability for a Pokémon with 65/60/60 defences. Instead, Absol now has Tough Claws, letting it hit harder than its standard Mega form can, along with slightly better bulk to enable it to almost take a hit and set up a Swords Dance. At +2, Absol is a Pokémon to be afraid of, with 115 base Speed backing its Sucker Punch to ensure you don't hit before it does, and Play Rough and Superpower for coverage.
However, Metagrossite Absol is very, very vulnerable to Low Kick. And, of course, in MnM 115 base Speed isn't quite as scary as it is in standard OU.
Salamencite Togekiss:
Aerilate
85/60/145/130/125/100
Newly-notable moves:
Hyper Voice, potentially Extreme Speed
Nasty Plot, Roost, Hyper Voice, Dazzling Gleam. You're welcome. You could also run Stored Power over Dazzling Gleam if you so choose, which gets you resisted by different things but almost guarantees that you can muscle past them after enough boosts.
Salamencite Gyarados:
Intimidate -> Aerilate
95/135/129/70/110/101
Newly-notable moves:
Return
Step one: Switch in almost for free with Intimidate.
Step two: Mega Evolve and boost with Dragon Dance.
Step three: Sweep with Return/Waterfall.
Salamencite Gliscor:
Aerilate
75/105/175/55/85/115
Newly-notable moves:
Return, Baton Pass
Set up a Swords Dance with your 75/175 physical bulk, then sweep with Aerilate Return and Earthquake. If your opponent sends in something that walls you, Baton Pass the Attack boosts to another sweeper or wallbreaker.
Slowbronite Blissey:
Shell Armor
255/10/80/105/135/55
Newly-notable moves:
Hyper Voice, Flamethrower, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Dazzling Gleam, Focus Blast, Calm Mind
Now even crits can't stop Blissey from walling! 255/80 physical bulk is very, very good, better than Eviolite Chansey in fact. While it is weaker in Special bulk than Eviolite Chansey, that's practically a non-issue since its bulk is extreme regardless. Also comes with a very usable base 105 Special Attack.
Glalitite Weavile:
Refrigerate
70/160/65/85/85/145
Newly-notable moves:
Return, Quick Attack
Refrigerate Return for days. Dies easily though, specifically to any Vacuum Wave or Mach Punch, and almost any Pixilate Quick Attack.
Pidgeotite Porygon-Z:
No Guard
85/80/75/200/85/110
Newly-notable moves:
Blizzard, Zap Cannon
Boost with Nasty Plot, then nuke everything with Zap Cannon, Blizzard, and Shadow Ball or Psyshock off of your 200 base Sp. Atk. STAB is pointless since Tri Attack isn't any stronger than Zap Cannon. Lack of Focus Blast sucks, but oh well. Also, 110 base Speed is sorta sadface, but it still has scary wallbreaking power.
Pidgeotite Blissey:
No Guard
255/10/15/140/135/75
Newly-notable moves:
Hyper Voice, Blizzard, Fire Blast, Thunder, Focus Blast, Calm Mind
Blissey has amazing bulk to let it set up Calm Minds (though it still cannot wall physical attacks all that well), coupled with an awesome Special movepool to abuse with No Guard.
Banettite Sableye:
Prankster
50/125/85/75/85/60
Newly-notable moves:
Sableye's entire Physical movepool
The only thing that really makes this Sableye unhappy is that Sableye does not learn either Bulk Up nor Swords Dance. However, it does at least have Power-Up Punch, oddly enough. Overall, this is just Sableye but slightly better in every way. More bulk, enough Attack to actually leave a mark, still has Prankster Recover and Prankster Will-o-Wisp. Its problem is that it has a serious case of 4MSS, wanting to boost, heal, Sub, and spam dual STAB priority.
Banettite Hitmontop:
Intimidate -> Prankster
50/145/105/35/130/80
Newly-notable moves: Bulk Up, Mach Punch, Bullet Punch, Sucker Punch
Prankster Bulk up, then spam priority.
Scizorite Pangoro:
Mold Breaker/Scrappy -> Technician
95/144/118/79/91/68
Newly-notable moves:
Storm Throw, Circle Throw, Dual Chop, Aerial Ace, Bulldoze, Rock Tomb, Power-up Punch
Technician Storm Throw off of 144 base Attack is quite powerful, and Bulldoze and Rock Tomb make for nice coverage options with their ability to make the foe slower than you. 95/118/91 bulk isn't too terrible, either. Pre-Mega Mold Breaker or Scrappy could be useful to catch a foe who would otherwise prove a nuisance. Mold Breaker especially might be useful to get a Parting Shot past a slow Magic Bounce user if you really just don't want to be there right now. Potentially countered by Slowbronite Blissey due to Shell Armor, and also not quite as scary as other Megas out there.
Aqua Server (playable along with a Doubles version)
Mega Stone Benefits (created by Tyrell D. Barnes)
Mega Stone Viability Rankings (created by Lukethehedgehog)
Metagrossite Jirachi seems quite good if you just want to hit things and watch them fall down. Don't forget to bring Ice Punch.
Ampharosite Jirachi is good for Mold Breaker Stealth Rock, and it has a surprising amount of firepower if you care to make use of it.
Those are just the two I come up with off the top of my head. There are probably others. Some people run Sceptilite for some reason? I'm not really sure what that's about.
I think the point of the set is to get the speed boosts, and Calm mind actually has no advantage since the charge turn + usage of Geo is the same boost as two turns of CM, with the additional speed.
As for Jirachi, I see mostly Ampharosite, Metagrossite, Pinsir/Altarianite (steel gives good typing to them and it has a wide movepool), and Banettite can work for irritating Prankster TWave and SR, along with 150Atk.
Here are two sets I've been experimenting with, for the same mon.
Dusknoir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Sneak / EQ
- Body Slam / Return
- Power-Up Punch
- Pain Split / WoW
And
Dusknoir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Body Slam / Return
- Power-Up Punch / Will-o-Wisp
So, briefly, the top set is a faster pace attacker that can switch in on attacks it's immune to and deliver a painful retaliation. The bottom set can wall lots of attackers all day with WoW, or attempt a bulky sweep with PuP boosting. Body Slam v Return is a matter of preference, however since I don't run WoW I tend to like Body Slam for the paralysis chance to patch up his measly 65 speed.
Dusknoir with Pinsirite obtains a respectable stat spread of 45/130/155/75/155/65, along with a coveted Ghost/Flying typing. EKiller Arceus can't even touch him with its most common set of SD/Recover/Espeed/EQ. He has 3 immunities to all very common types in MixnMega, and even resists Scrappy Lopunite fighting STAB moves. He beats Keldeo, Staraptor and many other Lopunnite users, Scizor, Zygarde (WoW) and many other physical attackers that aren't Fire type or resists flying.
His most notable flaws are: speed, doesn't get many OHKO's without a PuP or two (although not hard to get and -ate STAB return can get many 2HKO's), loses to things like LucTerrakion, PidgGengar (unless you predict the Hypnosis and Sleep Talk for a Return), fast and strong things with Rock, Electric, Dark/Ghost or Ice STAB, actually most Electric types, and CameruptKyurem.
I mostly use it to kill Lopunnite holders, other fighting types, Ekiller, and other physical attackers. Thoughts?
EV
Banned deucer.
Much much much much much betterSo I was reading through the OP and starting noticing how spread out the information was. A lot of the details that are relevant to each other (ban information, restrictions, etc.) were spread out between like two or three places in the thread, and stuff like the Mega Stone effects were sort of inaccessible (non-alphabetical order, hard to read). I started tidying it up a bit, condensing some stuff, but then it turned into a big project. Turns out I really like formatting haha. :P
You don't have to use any of it, Ghoul King, but I think it's a little more clear to new players than the current OP. Here's the code and visual preview: the images are condensed because they're in a hide tag but they look legible in the post preview.
Note: I didn't include the stone/orb viability rankings because I couldn't copy the formatting. I think it might make more sense underneath the main viability rankings, though.
Code:[SIZE=1]By Ghoul King and [USER=203169]FlameUser64[/USER] Approved by [USER=41805]Eevee General[/USER][/SIZE] [CENTER][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/AGjV485.png?1[/IMG] [SIZE=1]Banner graciously provided by [USER=235009]Ransei[/USER]. Thanks Ransei![/SIZE] [/CENTER] Mix-and-Mega is an Ubers-based metagame that allows you to use any Mega Stone (or Orb) on any fully-evolved Pokémon, with usual limit of one Mega Evolution removed. When that Pokémon then Mega Evolves or undergoes Primal Reversion, it undergoes the same stat modifications that the original user of that Mega Stone/Orb does, along with its ability and any type changes that the Mega Evolved/Primal Reversion form has compared to the base species. For instance: [CENTER][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/liaVhlv.png[/IMG][/CENTER] In order to Mega Evolve with a non-native Stone or Orb, you [B]cannot[/B] be: [LIST] [*]An unevolved Pokémon (ie: Chansey, Pikachu) [*]A Mega Evolution whose stats become a value higher than 255 or lower value than 1 (ie: Sablenite Shuckle) [*]A Mega Evolution that already exists on your team (ie: two Pokemon with Pinsirite) [*]A Pokémon on the Mega Evolution banlist (below) [/LIST] [B][SIZE=7]Clauses, Bans, Rules:[/SIZE] Clauses[/B]: [URL='http://www.smogon.com/xyhub/tiers']Ubers clauses[/URL], Shadow Tag clause, Mega Stone/Orb Clause (only one of each stone on a team) [B]General Bans[/B]: Mega Rayquaza, Gengarite, Swagger, Electrify, Zap Cannon, Dynamic Punch [B]Restricted Stones[/B]: Beedrillite, Blazikenite, Kangaskhanite, Mawilite, Medichamite (can only be used on certain Pokémon) [B]Mega Evolution Bans[/B]: The following Pokémon are barred from non-native Mega Evolution: [LIST] [*][IMG]http://www.pokemontrash.com/pokemon-x-y/images/sprites-mini/493.png[/IMG] [URL='http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/official-oras-ou-banlist.3491371/']OU-banned Pokémon[/URL] [*][IMG]http://sprites.pokecheck.org/icon/646-black.png[/IMG] Kyurem-Black [*][IMG]http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/289.png[/IMG] Slaking [*][IMG]http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/486.png[/IMG] Regigigas [*][IMG]http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/488.png[/IMG] Cresselia [*][IMG]http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/149.png[/IMG] Dragonite [*][IMG]http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/448.png[/IMG] Lucario [*][IMG]http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/icon/235.png[/IMG] Smeargle [/LIST] [B]Rules[/B]: The following mechanics also apply: [LIST] [*]You may Mega Evolve any number of Pokemon on the same team [*]If you use Red/Blue Orb, the transformation occurs instantly upon switch-in [*]If you use a Mega Stone or Orb that gives you a secondary typing that's the same as your primary typing, you no longer have a secondary typing (ie: Red Orb Charizard) [*]A Mega Stone or Orb cannot in any way removed from its holder if the holder can Mega Evolve/Primal Revert with it, regardless of whether the holder is the "correct" species or not [*]If a Pokémon with multiple Formes that it can change between mid-battle Mega Evolves, it is locked into a Mega based on that Forme. (ie: Meloetta) Transform/Imposter, Protean, and Color Change are not Forme changes [/LIST] [B][SIZE=7]Mega Stone Changes:[/SIZE][/B] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/L8NyuS2.png[/IMG] [B][SIZE=7]Council:[/SIZE][/B] [USER=223597]Ghoul King[/USER] [USER=250201]InfernapeTropius11[/USER] [USER=210102]AllJokesAside[/USER] [USER=204913]thdhted[/USER] [USER=297239]Quantum Tesseract[/USER] [B][SIZE=7]Resources: [/SIZE][/B][hide=Interesting Concepts]Altarianite Heatran: Fire/Fairy Pixilate 91/130/126/170/106/77 Newly-notable moves: Heatran's entire Physical movepool, Nature Power, possibly Uproar Pixitran has been a thing in various other OMs, and now you can run it with Fairy-typing! Whether that actually makes it better, I'm not sure. 170 base Sp. Atk does hit very hard though, and 91/126/106 bulk is pretty awesome. Scizorite Gardevoir: Technician 68/85/105/135/135/90 Newly-notable moves: Draining Kiss, Icy Wind, Hidden Power, Charge Beam A bulkier Gardevoir that makes up for a relative lack of speed and power with Technician Draining Kiss for self-healing and better coverage in Technician Hidden Power. Whether this is actually a good idea, I'm not sure. Scizorite Gallade: Technician 68/145/105/75/135/90 Newly-notable moves: Shadow Sneak, Dual Chop, Bulldoze, Rock Tomb, Power-up Punch, Thief Bulky Gallade that lacks speed, but has a great movepool to abuse with Technician, including accurate Rock/Ground coverage that also makes foes slower than you. Aerodactylite Gallade: Tough Claws 68/155/85/75/135/100 Fun fact, Shadow Sneak is actually a contact move for some reason, giving Gallade a wide variety of options to abuse with Tough Claws. While Rock/Ground coverage is a non-option, there's always Drain Punch, Close Combat, Knock Off, Zen Headbutt, Shadow Sneak, and Power-up Punch. Altarianite Gallade: Psychic/Fairy Pixilate 68/165/85/105/115/80 Newly-notable moves: Return, Gallade's entire Special movepool It's unfortunate that Gallade's primary typing isn't Fighting, or this would be a very fun combination. Still, Pixilate Return off of 165 base Attack seems suitably frightening. Probably a subpar Mega, though. Aggronite Avalugg: Ice/Steel Filter 95/147/234/44/66/28 An Avalugg that still dies to any Special Attack. Still, it tanks neutral hits better than Mega Aggron and also has access to Recover and Rapid Spin. The double weaknesses to Fire and Fighting are concerning, though Ground is its only other weakness. Altarianite Entei: Fire/Fairy Pixilate 115/155/105/130/75/100 Newly-notable moves: Extreme Speed, Return/Frustration A good PixiSpeed user, although the lack of good boosting is a bit of a letdown. 115/105 physical bulk is pretty nice. Sceptilite Jirachi: Steel/Dragon Lightning Rod 100/125/110/140/100/125 Newly-notable moves: Draco Meteor Speed, bulk, and Special Attack. Also switch in on a TWave paraflincher and get a free Special Attack boost! Ampharosite Jirachi: Steel/Dragon Mold Breaker 100/120/120/150/120/90 Newly-notable moves: Draco Meteor Essentially Dialga with 20 more base Sp. Def and a better Ability. Funny how that works, isn't it? Of course, unlike Dialga, Ampharosite Jirachi can't hold other items. Houndoominite Ninetales: Drought -> Solar Power 73/76/115/111/110/120 I feel this is self-explanatory. Sets its own sun, then proceeds to nuke things with Solar Power-boosted everything. 73/115/110 bulk isn't bad either, and 120 base Speed is quite solid. Ninetales even has Nasty Plot, but of course you don't want to be wasting your Sun turns boosting while taking Solar Power damage. Glalitite Froslass: Refrigerate 70/120/70/120/70/130 Newly-notable moves: Return Notice how this is basically just Mega Glalie but with worse bulk and more Speed. Oh, and a Pursuit/Knock Off weakness. Glalitite Kyurem: Refrigerate 125/170/90/170/90/115 Newly-notable moves: Hyper Voice, Return This unholy terror is basically Aerilate Mega Rayquaza, Ice edition. Dual 170 offences with 115 base Speed are suitably terrifying, and Refrigerate gives it the powerful Ice STAB it used to lack. Refrigerate Hyper Voice and Earth Power is near-perfect coverage by itself, leaving the other slots for filler moves. Altarianite Kyurem: Dragon/Fairy Pixilate 125/170/110/170/90/95 Newly-notable moves: Return, Hyper Voice Like Glalitite Kyurem but with Defence instead of Speed, and Fairy-type instead of Ice-type. It also gets a better defensive typing, but its Speed tier leaves something to be desired. Pidgeotite Victini: No Guard 100/100/105/165/110/120 Newly-notable moves: Focus Blast, Inferno Feel free to spam high base power special moves off of Victini's 165 base Sp. Atk. And with 120 base Speed, you can even rely on your speed to get you out alive. This also comes with a slight increase in Victini's already-decent bulk. Heracronite Ferrothorn: Skill Link 74/154/171/54/126/10 Newly-notable moves: Bullet Seed, Pin Missile Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball hits even harder with its even lower base Speed, and Bullet Seed is flat-out superior to Power Whip thanks to Skill Link. Ferrothorn does miss the lack of Leftovers recovery, but it still has Leech Seed and its 74/171/126 bulk is pretty difficult to wear down. Sablenite Blissey: Magic Bounce 255/20/60/95/185/25 Newly-notable moves: Blissey's entire Special movepool With an immunity to status moves and obscene 255/60/185 bulk, Blissey is difficult to break on both the Physical and Special sides. On the Special side, even Pidgeotite Keldeo's Focus Blast can't 2HKO Blissey. On the Physical side, if you aren't using a Fighting-type move or a Mega, you're in for a rough time. Sablenite Sylveon: Magic Bounce 95/75/115/130/180/30 Newly-notable moves: Moonblast over Hyper Voice Somewhat similar to Sablenite Blissey. With extreme defences and high Special Attack along with immunity to status moves, Sylveon can freely set up in your face and destroy everything. It is admittedly less bulky than Blissey, but its high power makes up for it. Lopunnite Meloetta-Pirouette: Scrappy 100/188/100/77/77/158 Its dual STABs now grant perfect neutral coverage, meaning it has far less 4MSS than it used to. Return, Close Combat or Drain Punch, Relic Song, Filler. Even Quick Attack isn't terrible as priority with Scrappy, although the inability to hit anything for SE damage sucks. It also takes 2 turns for it to Mega Evolve, as it has to use Relic Song first. Latiasite Heatran: Flash Fire -> Levitate 91/110/136/160/126/77 Now with even more bulk, 160 base Sp. Atk, and no more 4x ground weakness! It's still weak to Fighting and Water, however, and is now neutral to Fire. It also still has to fear Mold Breaker Ground moves, so a type-changing Stone is arguably more reliable protection from Ground moves. Metagrossite Absol: Tough Claws 65/140/80/85/80/115 Absol now has an ability that's more useful to it and much-needed bulk and speed. Magic Bounce was a pretty bad ability for a Pokémon with 65/60/60 defences. Instead, Absol now has Tough Claws, letting it hit harder than its standard Mega form can, along with slightly better bulk to enable it to almost take a hit and set up a Swords Dance. At +2, Absol is a Pokémon to be afraid of, with 115 base Speed backing its Sucker Punch to ensure you don't hit before it does, and Play Rough and Superpower for coverage. However, Metagrossite Absol is very, very vulnerable to Low Kick. And, of course, in MnM 115 base Speed isn't quite as scary as it is in standard OU. Salamencite Togekiss: Aerilate 85/60/145/130/125/100 Newly-notable moves: Hyper Voice, potentially Extreme Speed Nasty Plot, Roost, Hyper Voice, Dazzling Gleam. You're welcome. You could also run Stored Power over Dazzling Gleam if you so choose, which gets you resisted by different things but almost guarantees that you can muscle past them after enough boosts. Salamencite Gyarados: Intimidate -> Aerilate 95/135/129/70/110/101 Newly-notable moves: Return Step one: Switch in almost for free with Intimidate. Step two: Mega Evolve and boost with Dragon Dance. Step three: Sweep with Return/Waterfall. Salamencite Gliscor: Aerilate 75/105/175/55/85/115 Newly-notable moves: Return, Baton Pass Set up a Swords Dance with your 75/175 physical bulk, then sweep with Aerilate Return and Earthquake. If your opponent sends in something that walls you, Baton Pass the Attack boosts to another sweeper or wallbreaker. Slowbronite Blissey: Shell Armor 255/10/80/105/135/55 Newly-notable moves: Hyper Voice, Flamethrower, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Dazzling Gleam, Focus Blast, Calm Mind Now even crits can't stop Blissey from walling! 255/80 physical bulk is very, very good, better than Eviolite Chansey in fact. While it is weaker in Special bulk than Eviolite Chansey, that's practically a non-issue since its bulk is extreme regardless. Also comes with a very usable base 105 Special Attack. Glalitite Weavile: Refrigerate 70/160/65/85/85/145 Newly-notable moves: Return, Quick Attack Refrigerate Return for days. Dies easily though, specifically to any Vacuum Wave or Mach Punch, and almost any Pixilate Quick Attack. Pidgeotite Porygon-Z: No Guard 85/80/75/200/85/110 Newly-notable moves: Blizzard, Zap Cannon Boost with Nasty Plot, then nuke everything with Zap Cannon, Blizzard, and Shadow Ball or Psyshock off of your 200 base Sp. Atk. STAB is pointless since Tri Attack isn't any stronger than Zap Cannon. Lack of Focus Blast sucks, but oh well. Also, 110 base Speed is sorta sadface, but it still has scary wallbreaking power. Pidgeotite Blissey: No Guard 255/10/15/140/135/75 Newly-notable moves: Hyper Voice, Blizzard, Fire Blast, Thunder, Focus Blast, Calm Mind Blissey has amazing bulk to let it set up Calm Minds (though it still cannot wall physical attacks all that well), coupled with an awesome Special movepool to abuse with No Guard. Banettite Sableye: Prankster 50/125/85/75/85/60 Newly-notable moves: Sableye's entire Physical movepool The only thing that really makes this Sableye unhappy is that Sableye does not learn either Bulk Up nor Swords Dance. However, it does at least have Power-Up Punch, oddly enough. Overall, this is just Sableye but slightly better in every way. More bulk, enough Attack to actually leave a mark, still has Prankster Recover and Prankster Will-o-Wisp. Its problem is that it has a serious case of 4MSS, wanting to boost, heal, Sub, and spam dual STAB priority. Banettite Hitmontop: Intimidate -> Prankster 50/145/105/35/130/80 Newly-notable moves: Bulk Up, Mach Punch, Bullet Punch, Sucker Punch Prankster Bulk up, then spam priority. Scizorite Pangoro: Mold Breaker/Scrappy -> Technician 95/144/118/79/91/68 Newly-notable moves: Storm Throw, Circle Throw, Dual Chop, Aerial Ace, Bulldoze, Rock Tomb, Power-up Punch Technician Storm Throw off of 144 base Attack is quite powerful, and Bulldoze and Rock Tomb make for nice coverage options with their ability to make the foe slower than you. 95/118/91 bulk isn't too terrible, either. Pre-Mega Mold Breaker or Scrappy could be useful to catch a foe who would otherwise prove a nuisance. Mold Breaker especially might be useful to get a Parting Shot past a slow Magic Bounce user if you really just don't want to be there right now. Potentially countered by Slowbronite Blissey due to Shell Armor, and also not quite as scary as other Megas out there.[/hide][B][URL='http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/mix-and-mega-%E2%80%94-now-with-primals.3529352/']Original Thread[/URL] [/B](created by [USER=203169]FlameUser64[/USER]) [B][URL='http://aqua.psim.us/']Aqua Server[/URL][/B] (playable along with a Doubles version) [B][URL='https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_vi_pBiGhddxgXhSCql_EmIaF8jZno2VrkT5qB8osAU/edit#gid=0']Mega Stone Benefits[/URL][/B] (created by [USER=231825]Tyrell D. Barnes[/USER]) [B]Mega Stone Viability Rankings [/B](created by [USER=247594]Lukethehedgehog[/USER])By Ghoul King and FlameUser64
Approved by Eevee General
Mix-and-Mega is an Ubers-based metagame that allows you to use any Mega Stone (or Orb) on any fully-evolved Pokémon, with usual limit of one Mega Evolution removed. When that Pokémon then Mega Evolves or undergoes Primal Reversion, it undergoes the same stat modifications that the original user of that Mega Stone/Orb does, along with its ability and any type changes that the Mega Evolved/Primal Reversion form has compared to the base species. For instance:
In order to Mega Evolve with a non-native Stone or Orb, you cannot be:
Clauses, Bans, Rules:
- An unevolved Pokémon (ie: Chansey, Pikachu)
- A Mega Evolution whose stats become a value higher than 255 or lower value than 1 (ie: Sablenite Shuckle)
- A Mega Evolution that already exists on your team (ie: two Pokemon with Pinsirite)
- A Pokémon on the Mega Evolution banlist (below)
Clauses: Ubers clauses, Shadow Tag clause, Mega Stone/Orb Clause (only one of each stone on a team)
General Bans: Mega Rayquaza, Gengarite, Swagger, Electrify, Zap Cannon, Dynamic Punch
Restricted Stones: Beedrillite, Blazikenite, Kangaskhanite, Mawilite, Medichamite (can only be used on certain Pokémon)
Mega Evolution Bans: The following Pokémon are barred from non-native Mega Evolution:
Rules: The following mechanics also apply:
Mega Stone Changes:
- You may Mega Evolve any number of Pokemon on the same team
- If you use Red/Blue Orb, the transformation occurs instantly upon switch-in
- If you use a Mega Stone or Orb that gives you a secondary typing that's the same as your primary typing, you no longer have a secondary typing (ie: Red Orb Charizard)
- A Mega Stone or Orb cannot in any way removed from its holder if the holder can Mega Evolve/Primal Revert with it, regardless of whether the holder is the "correct" species or not
- If a Pokémon with multiple Formes that it can change between mid-battle Mega Evolves, it is locked into a Mega based on that Forme. (ie: Meloetta) Transform/Imposter, Protean, and Color Change are not Forme changes
Council:
Ghoul King
InfernapeTropius11
AllJokesAside
thdhted
Quantum Tesseract
Resources:Original Thread (created by FlameUser64)Altarianite Heatran:
Fire/Fairy
Pixilate
91/130/126/170/106/77
Newly-notable moves:
Heatran's entire Physical movepool, Nature Power, possibly Uproar
Pixitran has been a thing in various other OMs, and now you can run it with Fairy-typing! Whether that actually makes it better, I'm not sure. 170 base Sp. Atk does hit very hard though, and 91/126/106 bulk is pretty awesome.
Scizorite Gardevoir:
Technician
68/85/105/135/135/90
Newly-notable moves:
Draining Kiss, Icy Wind, Hidden Power, Charge Beam
A bulkier Gardevoir that makes up for a relative lack of speed and power with Technician Draining Kiss for self-healing and better coverage in Technician Hidden Power. Whether this is actually a good idea, I'm not sure.
Scizorite Gallade:
Technician
68/145/105/75/135/90
Newly-notable moves:
Shadow Sneak, Dual Chop, Bulldoze, Rock Tomb, Power-up Punch, Thief
Bulky Gallade that lacks speed, but has a great movepool to abuse with Technician, including accurate Rock/Ground coverage that also makes foes slower than you.
Aerodactylite Gallade:
Tough Claws
68/155/85/75/135/100
Fun fact, Shadow Sneak is actually a contact move for some reason, giving Gallade a wide variety of options to abuse with Tough Claws. While Rock/Ground coverage is a non-option, there's always Drain Punch, Close Combat, Knock Off, Zen Headbutt, Shadow Sneak, and Power-up Punch.
Altarianite Gallade:
Psychic/Fairy
Pixilate
68/165/85/105/115/80
Newly-notable moves:
Return, Gallade's entire Special movepool
It's unfortunate that Gallade's primary typing isn't Fighting, or this would be a very fun combination. Still, Pixilate Return off of 165 base Attack seems suitably frightening. Probably a subpar Mega, though.
Aggronite Avalugg:
Ice/Steel
Filter
95/147/234/44/66/28
An Avalugg that still dies to any Special Attack. Still, it tanks neutral hits better than Mega Aggron and also has access to Recover and Rapid Spin. The double weaknesses to Fire and Fighting are concerning, though Ground is its only other weakness.
Altarianite Entei:
Fire/Fairy
Pixilate
115/155/105/130/75/100
Newly-notable moves:
Extreme Speed, Return/Frustration
A good PixiSpeed user, although the lack of good boosting is a bit of a letdown. 115/105 physical bulk is pretty nice.
Sceptilite Jirachi:
Steel/Dragon
Lightning Rod
100/125/110/140/100/125
Newly-notable moves:
Draco Meteor
Speed, bulk, and Special Attack. Also switch in on a TWave paraflincher and get a free Special Attack boost!
Ampharosite Jirachi:
Steel/Dragon
Mold Breaker
100/120/120/150/120/90
Newly-notable moves:
Draco Meteor
Essentially Dialga with 20 more base Sp. Def and a better Ability. Funny how that works, isn't it? Of course, unlike Dialga, Ampharosite Jirachi can't hold other items.
Houndoominite Ninetales:
Drought -> Solar Power
73/76/115/111/110/120
I feel this is self-explanatory. Sets its own sun, then proceeds to nuke things with Solar Power-boosted everything. 73/115/110 bulk isn't bad either, and 120 base Speed is quite solid. Ninetales even has Nasty Plot, but of course you don't want to be wasting your Sun turns boosting while taking Solar Power damage.
Glalitite Froslass:
Refrigerate
70/120/70/120/70/130
Newly-notable moves:
Return
Notice how this is basically just Mega Glalie but with worse bulk and more Speed. Oh, and a Pursuit/Knock Off weakness.
Glalitite Kyurem:
Refrigerate
125/170/90/170/90/115
Newly-notable moves:
Hyper Voice, Return
This unholy terror is basically Aerilate Mega Rayquaza, Ice edition. Dual 170 offences with 115 base Speed are suitably terrifying, and Refrigerate gives it the powerful Ice STAB it used to lack. Refrigerate Hyper Voice and Earth Power is near-perfect coverage by itself, leaving the other slots for filler moves.
Altarianite Kyurem:
Dragon/Fairy
Pixilate
125/170/110/170/90/95
Newly-notable moves:
Return, Hyper Voice
Like Glalitite Kyurem but with Defence instead of Speed, and Fairy-type instead of Ice-type. It also gets a better defensive typing, but its Speed tier leaves something to be desired.
Pidgeotite Victini:
No Guard
100/100/105/165/110/120
Newly-notable moves:
Focus Blast, Inferno
Feel free to spam high base power special moves off of Victini's 165 base Sp. Atk. And with 120 base Speed, you can even rely on your speed to get you out alive. This also comes with a slight increase in Victini's already-decent bulk.
Heracronite Ferrothorn:
Skill Link
74/154/171/54/126/10
Newly-notable moves:
Bullet Seed, Pin Missile
Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball hits even harder with its even lower base Speed, and Bullet Seed is flat-out superior to Power Whip thanks to Skill Link. Ferrothorn does miss the lack of Leftovers recovery, but it still has Leech Seed and its 74/171/126 bulk is pretty difficult to wear down.
Sablenite Blissey:
Magic Bounce
255/20/60/95/185/25
Newly-notable moves:
Blissey's entire Special movepool
With an immunity to status moves and obscene 255/60/185 bulk, Blissey is difficult to break on both the Physical and Special sides. On the Special side, even Pidgeotite Keldeo's Focus Blast can't 2HKO Blissey. On the Physical side, if you aren't using a Fighting-type move or a Mega, you're in for a rough time.
Sablenite Sylveon:
Magic Bounce
95/75/115/130/180/30
Newly-notable moves:
Moonblast over Hyper Voice
Somewhat similar to Sablenite Blissey. With extreme defences and high Special Attack along with immunity to status moves, Sylveon can freely set up in your face and destroy everything. It is admittedly less bulky than Blissey, but its high power makes up for it.
Lopunnite Meloetta-Pirouette:
Scrappy
100/188/100/77/77/158
Its dual STABs now grant perfect neutral coverage, meaning it has far less 4MSS than it used to. Return, Close Combat or Drain Punch, Relic Song, Filler. Even Quick Attack isn't terrible as priority with Scrappy, although the inability to hit anything for SE damage sucks. It also takes 2 turns for it to Mega Evolve, as it has to use Relic Song first.
Latiasite Heatran:
Flash Fire -> Levitate
91/110/136/160/126/77
Now with even more bulk, 160 base Sp. Atk, and no more 4x ground weakness! It's still weak to Fighting and Water, however, and is now neutral to Fire. It also still has to fear Mold Breaker Ground moves, so a type-changing Stone is arguably more reliable protection from Ground moves.
Metagrossite Absol:
Tough Claws
65/140/80/85/80/115
Absol now has an ability that's more useful to it and much-needed bulk and speed. Magic Bounce was a pretty bad ability for a Pokémon with 65/60/60 defences. Instead, Absol now has Tough Claws, letting it hit harder than its standard Mega form can, along with slightly better bulk to enable it to almost take a hit and set up a Swords Dance. At +2, Absol is a Pokémon to be afraid of, with 115 base Speed backing its Sucker Punch to ensure you don't hit before it does, and Play Rough and Superpower for coverage.
However, Metagrossite Absol is very, very vulnerable to Low Kick. And, of course, in MnM 115 base Speed isn't quite as scary as it is in standard OU.
Salamencite Togekiss:
Aerilate
85/60/145/130/125/100
Newly-notable moves:
Hyper Voice, potentially Extreme Speed
Nasty Plot, Roost, Hyper Voice, Dazzling Gleam. You're welcome. You could also run Stored Power over Dazzling Gleam if you so choose, which gets you resisted by different things but almost guarantees that you can muscle past them after enough boosts.
Salamencite Gyarados:
Intimidate -> Aerilate
95/135/129/70/110/101
Newly-notable moves:
Return
Step one: Switch in almost for free with Intimidate.
Step two: Mega Evolve and boost with Dragon Dance.
Step three: Sweep with Return/Waterfall.
Salamencite Gliscor:
Aerilate
75/105/175/55/85/115
Newly-notable moves:
Return, Baton Pass
Set up a Swords Dance with your 75/175 physical bulk, then sweep with Aerilate Return and Earthquake. If your opponent sends in something that walls you, Baton Pass the Attack boosts to another sweeper or wallbreaker.
Slowbronite Blissey:
Shell Armor
255/10/80/105/135/55
Newly-notable moves:
Hyper Voice, Flamethrower, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Dazzling Gleam, Focus Blast, Calm Mind
Now even crits can't stop Blissey from walling! 255/80 physical bulk is very, very good, better than Eviolite Chansey in fact. While it is weaker in Special bulk than Eviolite Chansey, that's practically a non-issue since its bulk is extreme regardless. Also comes with a very usable base 105 Special Attack.
Glalitite Weavile:
Refrigerate
70/160/65/85/85/145
Newly-notable moves:
Return, Quick Attack
Refrigerate Return for days. Dies easily though, specifically to any Vacuum Wave or Mach Punch, and almost any Pixilate Quick Attack.
Pidgeotite Porygon-Z:
No Guard
85/80/75/200/85/110
Newly-notable moves:
Blizzard, Zap Cannon
Boost with Nasty Plot, then nuke everything with Zap Cannon, Blizzard, and Shadow Ball or Psyshock off of your 200 base Sp. Atk. STAB is pointless since Tri Attack isn't any stronger than Zap Cannon. Lack of Focus Blast sucks, but oh well. Also, 110 base Speed is sorta sadface, but it still has scary wallbreaking power.
Pidgeotite Blissey:
No Guard
255/10/15/140/135/75
Newly-notable moves:
Hyper Voice, Blizzard, Fire Blast, Thunder, Focus Blast, Calm Mind
Blissey has amazing bulk to let it set up Calm Minds (though it still cannot wall physical attacks all that well), coupled with an awesome Special movepool to abuse with No Guard.
Banettite Sableye:
Prankster
50/125/85/75/85/60
Newly-notable moves:
Sableye's entire Physical movepool
The only thing that really makes this Sableye unhappy is that Sableye does not learn either Bulk Up nor Swords Dance. However, it does at least have Power-Up Punch, oddly enough. Overall, this is just Sableye but slightly better in every way. More bulk, enough Attack to actually leave a mark, still has Prankster Recover and Prankster Will-o-Wisp. Its problem is that it has a serious case of 4MSS, wanting to boost, heal, Sub, and spam dual STAB priority.
Banettite Hitmontop:
Intimidate -> Prankster
50/145/105/35/130/80
Newly-notable moves: Bulk Up, Mach Punch, Bullet Punch, Sucker Punch
Prankster Bulk up, then spam priority.
Scizorite Pangoro:
Mold Breaker/Scrappy -> Technician
95/144/118/79/91/68
Newly-notable moves:
Storm Throw, Circle Throw, Dual Chop, Aerial Ace, Bulldoze, Rock Tomb, Power-up Punch
Technician Storm Throw off of 144 base Attack is quite powerful, and Bulldoze and Rock Tomb make for nice coverage options with their ability to make the foe slower than you. 95/118/91 bulk isn't too terrible, either. Pre-Mega Mold Breaker or Scrappy could be useful to catch a foe who would otherwise prove a nuisance. Mold Breaker especially might be useful to get a Parting Shot past a slow Magic Bounce user if you really just don't want to be there right now. Potentially countered by Slowbronite Blissey due to Shell Armor, and also not quite as scary as other Megas out there.
Aqua Server (playable along with a Doubles version)
Mega Stone Benefits (created by Tyrell D. Barnes)
Mega Stone Viability Rankings (created by Lukethehedgehog)
I use Audinite, as it doesn't restrict Altarianite on other mons and has better stats for a SR'er (imo).
Jirachi @ Audinite
Ability: Serene Grace
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Stealth Rock
- Doom Desire / Flash Cannon
- Thunder
Audinite: +40 Def, +20 Sp. Atk, +40 Sp. Def, gain secondary Fairy typing and Healer.
Altarianite: +40 Atk, +20 Def, +40 Sp. Atk, gain secondary Fairy typing and Pixilate.
Also thought I'd share my Metagross that has worked quite well for me:
Metagross @ Mewtwonite X
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Hammer Arm
- Bullet Punch
- Ice Punch / Meteor Mash / Earthquake
- Explosion
Hammer arm does not disappoint. It beats Ferrothorn, Blissey, and Skarmory, among others. Bullet punch OHKOs uninvested Weavile and is quite useful vs. many glass cannons. M2X is +20 atk +10 spD but no scrappy vs lopunnite.
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
The metagross loses out on a KEY +30 speed that heavily reduces its power. Furthermore, a lack of tough claws means that you're still doing similar damage as aerodactylite, while many stones can add a type more desirable than fighting (which is a meh type in MnM)
This seems cool, but I have a few suggestions.
First off, that Jirachi set is cool, from personal experience. I personally would recommend calm mind on it, though. Doom desire hits like a truck after a boost. It also allows you to check special attackers far more easily.
For Metagross, I don't have any similar advice. I am, however, confused of explosion. It seems like a nonsense pick- that isn't a suicide lead, and it isn't fast enough to abuse it.'Does it net some particular ko on a threat to your team?
That looks really cool.
Really liking this metagame. After some testing, wanted to discuss a Pokemon I've been having fun with lately.
Jellicent @
or
(Aggronite or Slowbronite)
Stats:
: 100 / 90 / 120 / 85 / 125 / 60
: 100 / 60 / 140 / 115 / 105 / 60
Ability: Water Absorb (Filter or Shell Armor)
EV's: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
IV's: 0 Spe (if Trick Room)
Nature: Relaxed / Bold
Moveset:
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic
- Trick Room / Hex / Shadow Ball
In a metagame that's full of bulky Waters who can already take advantage of Aggronite and Slowbronite, Jellicent may not be the first Pokemon to come to mind when choosing a Pokemon to hold one of those Mega stones. However, Jellicent does have some things going for it that helps separate itself from the rest of the pack. First and foremost is access to Trick Room, a very potent support move that can help out a great deal of other Mega Pokemon who would normally be out-paced by faster threats. It also can screw over a lot of offensive sets, such as Pidgeotite, Absolite, Aerodactylite, and Diancite users.
With Aggronite, 100 / 120 / 125 defenses is very good combined with Water/Steel typing and Filter. While there are better Water-type Pokemon who can use Aggronite stat-wise, Trick Room teams and support Pokemon genuinely need an option against ESpeed -ate users (and ESpeed Arceus), and this Jellicent resists all of them.
Alternatively, Slowbronite lets it keep its unique Water / Ghost typing while giving it a boost in SpA and more Defense at the cost of less Special Defense, Flying + Fairy resists, and Filter. This variant can hit decently hard and is a better check to ESpeed Arceus and Primal Groudon, plus can Spin block (although Rapid Spin has been less than prevalent).
Recover lets it stand out among Vaporeon, Blastoise, and Suicune, but there is no denying that it faces stiff competition from Milotic. You need to use its advantages (Trick Room, Ghost STAB, etc) to give reason for its usage over it, but in this role, it is unrivaled.
Jellicent @
Stats:
Ability: Water Absorb (Filter or Shell Armor)
EV's: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
IV's: 0 Spe (if Trick Room)
Nature: Relaxed / Bold
Moveset:
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic
- Trick Room / Hex / Shadow Ball
In a metagame that's full of bulky Waters who can already take advantage of Aggronite and Slowbronite, Jellicent may not be the first Pokemon to come to mind when choosing a Pokemon to hold one of those Mega stones. However, Jellicent does have some things going for it that helps separate itself from the rest of the pack. First and foremost is access to Trick Room, a very potent support move that can help out a great deal of other Mega Pokemon who would normally be out-paced by faster threats. It also can screw over a lot of offensive sets, such as Pidgeotite, Absolite, Aerodactylite, and Diancite users.
With Aggronite, 100 / 120 / 125 defenses is very good combined with Water/Steel typing and Filter. While there are better Water-type Pokemon who can use Aggronite stat-wise, Trick Room teams and support Pokemon genuinely need an option against ESpeed -ate users (and ESpeed Arceus), and this Jellicent resists all of them.
Alternatively, Slowbronite lets it keep its unique Water / Ghost typing while giving it a boost in SpA and more Defense at the cost of less Special Defense, Flying + Fairy resists, and Filter. This variant can hit decently hard and is a better check to ESpeed Arceus and Primal Groudon, plus can Spin block (although Rapid Spin has been less than prevalent).
Recover lets it stand out among Vaporeon, Blastoise, and Suicune, but there is no denying that it faces stiff competition from Milotic. You need to use its advantages (Trick Room, Ghost STAB, etc) to give reason for its usage over it, but in this role, it is unrivaled.
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Kyogre C -> B+ , I got no clue how to argue that , it works for me so far dunno if it would for others ,
With a Set composed of Surf / HP Ground / Thunder / Ice beam it destroys a lot of mon ,
yes you have to predict well , why no Spout ?
We need the coverage of HP Ground to hit common red orb users , yeah blissey is pain in the ass but it's blissey , Surf over Origin Pulse because it can't miss and cost you a game so origin is garbage as precipice on P-Don
( wich one would deserve a S+ rank with Thunder on is Set to 360noscopeblazeit thoose Blue Orb skarm )
( http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-331721176 è_é )
Ho-Oh B+ -> A- : It's a beast , x4 weakness to rock but it does so well unless it got hit by that , living Raikou T-Bolt ,Pidgeotie mon Thunder and ohking them back , checking Spore/Hypnosis shit with sleeptalk , 2HKO Blissey with CB (means it 2HKO everything except Blue orb Skarm) , beat P-Don without Edge ?
Well i repeat myself again unless it takes a rock moove , it almost always wins and i nominate the CB+Sleep Talk Set , LO is outclassed from my pov and lack the raw power to break through Blissey.
(http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-331665796)
PS: I have more thing to nominate or thing not even ranked yet , with being competitive , Arceus ghost and shit ,Gengar to S with a specific set and would make the actual meta healtier , but my actual english lvl is so low and bad so it kinda stop me from arguing about it , if anyone have time to loose and want to do it at my place , feel free to pm me on PS -> Contestable
With a Set composed of Surf / HP Ground / Thunder / Ice beam it destroys a lot of mon ,
yes you have to predict well , why no Spout ?
We need the coverage of HP Ground to hit common red orb users , yeah blissey is pain in the ass but it's blissey , Surf over Origin Pulse because it can't miss and cost you a game so origin is garbage as precipice on P-Don
( wich one would deserve a S+ rank with Thunder on is Set to 360noscopeblazeit thoose Blue Orb skarm )
( http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-331721176 è_é )
Ho-Oh B+ -> A- : It's a beast , x4 weakness to rock but it does so well unless it got hit by that , living Raikou T-Bolt ,Pidgeotie mon Thunder and ohking them back , checking Spore/Hypnosis shit with sleeptalk , 2HKO Blissey with CB (means it 2HKO everything except Blue orb Skarm) , beat P-Don without Edge ?
Well i repeat myself again unless it takes a rock moove , it almost always wins and i nominate the CB+Sleep Talk Set , LO is outclassed from my pov and lack the raw power to break through Blissey.
(http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-331665796)
PS: I have more thing to nominate or thing not even ranked yet , with being competitive , Arceus ghost and shit ,Gengar to S with a specific set and would make the actual meta healtier , but my actual english lvl is so low and bad so it kinda stop me from arguing about it , if anyone have time to loose and want to do it at my place , feel free to pm me on PS -> Contestable
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The Jirachi is intended mostly as an early game use - it has some strong super effective moves, rocks, and is bulky enough to take a couple hits. It typically gets sacrificed, but I could definitely see how CM would be useful for a late-game approach.
I find explosion works well on Metagross to keep momentum - preventing setup and keeping semi-frail pokemon safe. There are also times where it just dies. A faster variant is a bit pointless with Hammer Arm. Tough claws is better if you prefer added bulk and moves like Ice Punch, Zen Headbutt, Meteor Mash, etc. over Hammer Arm, Explosion, EQ, etc. (which are still viable)
It is worth noting that Metagross survives Entei's Sacred Fire at full and threatens OHKO (60%ish if burnt) with explosion, as a clutch response. It is also a decent response to Zygarde. But explosion is mostly there as an answer to the bulky CM'ers.
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Lopunnite being an S-rank stone means every team should have something to deal with it. This is a good set to deal with most Lopunnite users, with the exception of Terrakion. However, Pinsirite has many users that would compete for the stone and really force one to want to use this set over more popular options. It certainly looks useful though.
The Slowbronite set certainly is the superior one for Jellicent. Aggronite would be better suited on Slowbro or Slowking, the former with much greater defense and the latter with better all around defenses compared to Jellicent. They both learn Trick room and have higher stats.Really liking this metagame. After some testing, wanted to discuss a Pokemon I've been having fun with lately.
Jellicent @or(Aggronite or Slowbronite)
Stats:
: 100 / 90 / 120 / 85 / 125 / 60
: 100 / 60 / 140 / 115 / 105 / 60
Ability: Water Absorb (Filter or Shell Armor)
EV's: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
IV's: 0 Spe (if Trick Room)
Nature: Relaxed / Bold
Moveset:
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic
- Trick Room / Hex / Shadow Ball
In a metagame that's full of bulky Waters who can already take advantage of Aggronite and Slowbronite, Jellicent may not be the first Pokemon to come to mind when choosing a Pokemon to hold one of those Mega stones. However, Jellicent does have some things going for it that helps separate itself from the rest of the pack. First and foremost is access to Trick Room, a very potent support move that can help out a great deal of other Mega Pokemon who would normally be out-paced by faster threats. It also can screw over a lot of offensive sets, such as Pidgeotite, Absolite, Aerodactylite, and Diancite users.
With Aggronite, 100 / 120 / 125 defenses is very good combined with Water/Steel typing and Filter. While there are better Water-type Pokemon who can use Aggronite stat-wise, Trick Room teams and support Pokemon genuinely need an option against ESpeed -ate users (and ESpeed Arceus), and this Jellicent resists all of them.
Alternatively, Slowbronite lets it keep its unique Water / Ghost typing while giving it a boost in SpA and more Defense at the cost of less Special Defense, Flying + Fairy resists, and Filter. This variant can hit decently hard and is a better check to ESpeed Arceus and Primal Groudon, plus can Spin block (although Rapid Spin has been less than prevalent).
Recover lets it stand out among Vaporeon, Blastoise, and Suicune, but there is no denying that it faces stiff competition from Milotic. You need to use its advantages (Trick Room, Ghost STAB, etc) to give reason for its usage over it, but in this role, it is unrivaled.
The Slowbronite set is the one that maintains Jelli's niche typing, and makes him into a sturdy counter to certain attackers like Ekiller, Glaciate users, physical water and fire types, and fighting since without Scrappy. Aggronite Jellicent is outclassed by other water types (vaporeon, suicune, Slow's, etc).
Hello, I'm rather new in this tier. I like it and I think it's really fun, bit I have some issue's that I wanted to adress.
The first thing is Sablenite. It gives massive boost to the user, but not only that, it also gets magic bounce. The high defense stats are hard to deal with but with magic bounce on top of it you cannot even taunt/ toxic it. Obviously fat mons like Blissy can (ab-)use this ability, but then you also have stuff like amnesia/ iron defense mew (which you cannot even taunt?!). I personally think that this is just too much.
Another thing I wanted to adress is the whole priority/ -ate thing.
The common thing is to use a mon with massive attack and give it an -ate mega. It was obvious how broken it is, therefore Luc for ex can now only hold its own mega. Likewise Dnite (which does not have its own mega yet) cannot carry a mega at all. The last one is Entei and I think that should also go.
Now aside from espeed I find other kinds of priority annoying too. Quick attack for ex is annoying, but managable. Fake out on the other hand is just stupid. Deals massive damage and you get flinched and cannot do shit about it. I personally suggest a complex ban with espeed/ fake out + -ate abilities.
I wanted to adress those 2 topics and see how the rest of the community sees it. Have a nice day.
The first thing is Sablenite. It gives massive boost to the user, but not only that, it also gets magic bounce. The high defense stats are hard to deal with but with magic bounce on top of it you cannot even taunt/ toxic it. Obviously fat mons like Blissy can (ab-)use this ability, but then you also have stuff like amnesia/ iron defense mew (which you cannot even taunt?!). I personally think that this is just too much.
Another thing I wanted to adress is the whole priority/ -ate thing.
The common thing is to use a mon with massive attack and give it an -ate mega. It was obvious how broken it is, therefore Luc for ex can now only hold its own mega. Likewise Dnite (which does not have its own mega yet) cannot carry a mega at all. The last one is Entei and I think that should also go.
Now aside from espeed I find other kinds of priority annoying too. Quick attack for ex is annoying, but managable. Fake out on the other hand is just stupid. Deals massive damage and you get flinched and cannot do shit about it. I personally suggest a complex ban with espeed/ fake out + -ate abilities.
I wanted to adress those 2 topics and see how the rest of the community sees it. Have a nice day.
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
Sablenite may be unbalanced on paper, but I have a hard time perceiving it as broken. In terms of banning something that directly benefits stall, it doesnt support metagame balance. Something that nerfs stall is not balancing the metagame because stall is already very difficult to run and giving offense a further metagame advantage probably isnt very smart.
The way I see, banning stall based components of a metagame means they do one of two things: They heavily overpower the playstyle, or the mon is so splashable and abusable that offensive teams are running a total stallmon to success (Cresselia here, Masquerain Suicune in inheritance, old mega slowbro in stabmons) on a team where it would normally be ineffective due to losing too much momentum. Sablenite strikes me as neither of these.
The way I see, banning stall based components of a metagame means they do one of two things: They heavily overpower the playstyle, or the mon is so splashable and abusable that offensive teams are running a total stallmon to success (Cresselia here, Masquerain Suicune in inheritance, old mega slowbro in stabmons) on a team where it would normally be ineffective due to losing too much momentum. Sablenite strikes me as neither of these.
Basically the current Blissey, as it requires something like Terrakion to break. I think he means that, considering Sablenite or Slowbronite Blissey is very hard to break and can sweep teams.