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Super Smash Bros 4 (Spoilers ITT)
- Thread starter LonelyNess
- Start date
I'm on 3DS, if anyone else is interested.
https://twitter.com/tatsutsuyo/status/696220222231941120
seriously, gotta love these bayo's short vids
seriously, gotta love these bayo's short vids
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https://gfycat.com/WanEmotionalCopepod
SDI is perhaps the single most underdeveloped thing in high-level Smash 4.
SDI is perhaps the single most underdeveloped thing in high-level Smash 4.
ugh. day four of my journey to take on bayonetta and get good with her. still pretty awful. i'm not bad, per say. gotten down her grabs, her low% combos, mid% combos, and how to recover w her, but overall i'm still not very good aha. she's incredibly difficult, like ryu. here are some combos that i've been using effectively:
low%: side b (held) -> jump -> up air (hold) -> follow up
mid%: side b (not held) -> up b -> side b -> side b -> bair
those are just basic combos. working on precise ones. witch time is actually really hard to use. when you get it, if you're turned around, the frames it takes to turn and perform a move take up like 90% of the witch time so if you're not 100% on point then you wasted a witch time (which stales when you don't even get hit btw). she's just very hard. i'm posting basically to ask if anyone else has had success with her in this week she's been out? is she impossible for someone at my skill level (not top competitive, but good enough for tournament play)?
low%: side b (held) -> jump -> up air (hold) -> follow up
mid%: side b (not held) -> up b -> side b -> side b -> bair
those are just basic combos. working on precise ones. witch time is actually really hard to use. when you get it, if you're turned around, the frames it takes to turn and perform a move take up like 90% of the witch time so if you're not 100% on point then you wasted a witch time (which stales when you don't even get hit btw). she's just very hard. i'm posting basically to ask if anyone else has had success with her in this week she's been out? is she impossible for someone at my skill level (not top competitive, but good enough for tournament play)?
Bayonetta's bread and butter is Heel Slide > (Uptilt > Fair 2 ) > Witch Twist > Afterburner Kick x2 > Bair/Uair, with the moves in parenthesis being situational moves that slightly increase the damage of the combo but can be skipped. This works a few times, and from there you have to rely on small combos like Dtilt > Uair and whatever you can find. It's hard to get a Heel Slide in since its very predictable, but finding openings on your opponent is not as hard since the move is kinda fast and the second hitbox messes with people, especially if they have shitty frame data or try to punish with a stronger attack.
Witch Twist comes at like frame 4, its one of your fastest moves and can be used to avoid getting punished since it hits both sides. Its also a combo starter so its not a bad idea to throw it out when you feel in danger just remember your lag increases every time you use upB or sideB.
For kills, your best option is to go for Witch Time, and by now im sure everyone understands how difficult it is to get a counter through. If you do get one, make sure you hit your opponent or repsition yourself with a roll to avoid getting hit by multihit moves. Getting hit during Witch Time cancels it, so watch out. Remember that your Smash attacks don't deal much damage, so you'll notice that many moves will be able to clash with them and completely nullify them, which is why i recommend going for a dtilt and then charging your usmash or dsmash. Outside of Witch Time, Uair and Bair can kill when close to the blast zones, and fthrow can kill at very high percents when near the ledge. If you want to get earlier kills without Witch Time, you need to make reads. Your Smash attacks are huge, especially Fsmash, which can easily punish air dodges at a distance. Some attacks like Fair 1 or SideB 1 can combo into Fsmash if they miss the tech. For some reason people are mashing shield after they get hit by Side B, so if the second move whiffs, just Fsmash and you will probably hit them. Other than that, you can do perfect pivot fsmashes on opponents that try to attack you from above. They will land with a move while you step away from them and fsmash them during landing lag. Another kill move you have is Dair. This is actually one of Bayonetta's best moves. The move spikes opponents and creates a shockwave when it lands, the shockwave having tremendous launching power. Off stage, face away from your opponent and Dair them as they approach the stage. The move will either spike or stage spike, and then you can witch twist + jump to safety.
Bayonetta is not as hard as people say, but she's also not an easy character to play, especially when DI and SDI exist, ruining her combo potential. With practice you'll be able to pull off her basic combos to rack up damage but the hardest part is actually killing. It's still has barely been a week so im sure we'll be seeing more bayo techs soon.
Witch Twist comes at like frame 4, its one of your fastest moves and can be used to avoid getting punished since it hits both sides. Its also a combo starter so its not a bad idea to throw it out when you feel in danger just remember your lag increases every time you use upB or sideB.
For kills, your best option is to go for Witch Time, and by now im sure everyone understands how difficult it is to get a counter through. If you do get one, make sure you hit your opponent or repsition yourself with a roll to avoid getting hit by multihit moves. Getting hit during Witch Time cancels it, so watch out. Remember that your Smash attacks don't deal much damage, so you'll notice that many moves will be able to clash with them and completely nullify them, which is why i recommend going for a dtilt and then charging your usmash or dsmash. Outside of Witch Time, Uair and Bair can kill when close to the blast zones, and fthrow can kill at very high percents when near the ledge. If you want to get earlier kills without Witch Time, you need to make reads. Your Smash attacks are huge, especially Fsmash, which can easily punish air dodges at a distance. Some attacks like Fair 1 or SideB 1 can combo into Fsmash if they miss the tech. For some reason people are mashing shield after they get hit by Side B, so if the second move whiffs, just Fsmash and you will probably hit them. Other than that, you can do perfect pivot fsmashes on opponents that try to attack you from above. They will land with a move while you step away from them and fsmash them during landing lag. Another kill move you have is Dair. This is actually one of Bayonetta's best moves. The move spikes opponents and creates a shockwave when it lands, the shockwave having tremendous launching power. Off stage, face away from your opponent and Dair them as they approach the stage. The move will either spike or stage spike, and then you can witch twist + jump to safety.
Bayonetta is not as hard as people say, but she's also not an easy character to play, especially when DI and SDI exist, ruining her combo potential. With practice you'll be able to pull off her basic combos to rack up damage but the hardest part is actually killing. It's still has barely been a week so im sure we'll be seeing more bayo techs soon.
Anyone know if those 0-deaths from GimR's video can be broken out of?
Hey guys, do any of you have any tips for my brother? He is trying to learn how to play Roy, and I don't have the knowledge of how to play Roy. If there are any tips you guys could give him, that would be greatly appreciated.
I would say not to throw random dash grabs and smashes out in the neutral against Jigglypuff. Those are easily punished when whiffed and you can just abuse your Fair disjoint against her. The Fair walls seem to work a lot better later on. Neutral B is also by far the safest way to fish for kills given its' cooldown (do it with some space for the startup tho).
Roy can do a lot out of his downthrow at low percents, perhaps most importantly jab->regrab, but it is hard to grab jigglypuff and you probably can't combo her as well anyways. Roy plays a little differently against Jigglypuff. Really just have to win a lot of neutral exchanges and then land a kill move.
Roy can do a lot out of his downthrow at low percents, perhaps most importantly jab->regrab, but it is hard to grab jigglypuff and you probably can't combo her as well anyways. Roy plays a little differently against Jigglypuff. Really just have to win a lot of neutral exchanges and then land a kill move.
watched 30 seconds, here is what I can tell:
He's not using Roy's best approach option (one of his only ones too), which is nair. He should be always spamming shff nair in the neutral and maybe mixing it up with fair on shield and then cross up and jump before you land. He also didn't convert off the nair that he did get once, which you can, you can do nair and then follow it up with potentially two different aerials (usually fh nair to dj fair or uair).
Dthrow is almost completely outclassed by fthrow as a combo throw. Fthrow > nair is guaranteed on all floaty characters. fthrow > side b is what he should do against all non-floaty characters, and fthrow > fair is also pretty good. Dthrow still has some uses though, just not as many as fthrow. You can do dthrow to bait airdodge > fsmash or something. Sometimes you can do dthrow > jab > anything too which is nice.
After fthrow > nair you can also get more followups btw, often times at low percents fthrow > shff nair > fh nair > fair might be true.
Thanks for the tips guys! I'll be sure to relay this info to him.
with the recent buffs, Roy can combo alot of his aerials more than ever. A guy at school who mains Roy did a Fair train against my Cloud when I lost my jump and carried me too far off stage to recover. This was before the buffs. My point is Roy can combo alot of his aerials together especially with less lag.
Another thing you can do is put pressure with Neutral B near the edge. This covers alot of options and has no endlag, meaning you can Up B instantly, since Up B has intangibility or something. I don't own Roy but I've seen good Roy players that make the character look better than people put him in the tier lists.
Another thing you can do is put pressure with Neutral B near the edge. This covers alot of options and has no endlag, meaning you can Up B instantly, since Up B has intangibility or something. I don't own Roy but I've seen good Roy players that make the character look better than people put him in the tier lists.
The buffs only affected Roy's landing lag on aerials, aerial aerials (lol) will still work 100% the same. but yeah, you can do that.
People think that Roy is bad for the wrong reasons, and he's not even bad. The reason he's not better is because of bad matchups and the fact that he's a super fastfaller.
Also up b has super armour starting frame 4 until frame 11 i believe, but no, don't use neutral b > up b LMAO. to cover ledge options just do tilts (to cover reg get up or roll), nair (you could do nair at the ledge and then retreat while doing it to potentially cover roll + regular get up), or just jab.
I mean this guy would land after a nair and just do another one and then do two more off stage since he still had a doublejump, it was pretty crazy considering this was the first time i saw someone use roy in person. Also i dont mean to overglorify neutral b as an amazing move or anything i just mean that it puts alot of pressure considering its huge and has a ton of knockback with very little lag, im not saying you can just shoot it out randomly, but near the ledge it covers neutal getup, attack, and probably jump, and shield getup would put you in a bad position.
That being said, the only dlc i don't own is mewtwo and roy, should i buy them?
Focus
Ubers Tester Extraordinaire
Mewtwo and Roy aren't exactly essential, but they aren't bad either. I have been having a lot of fun with Mewtwo despite never playing as him in Melee, and he has been getting better with every patch. He's big, light, and super floaty, but he hits pretty hard. It's a bit harder to recommend Roy though unless you crave even more FE characters (not that that's a bad thing). That being said, he's almost certainly better than Marth or Lucina, so he might be worth getting if he looks like your kind of jam.
So "probably yes" to Mewtwo, and "maaaaybe" to Roy.
Up b is super punishable on whiff, it doesn't have "low endlag" because it's the same as ZSS if she whiffs an up b, you'll eat a hefty punish.
Regarding Roy, the landing lag buffs from the last patch helped him significantly, mitigating his weakness of having no autocanceling aerials out of a SH. His neutral is better since Fair and Nair's lessened landing lag allow roy to wall characters out better and make these moves safe on shield when spaced, disadvantage is better since landing aerials are safer than before, and his advantageous state is much better since he can frame trap, juggle, combo, kill, and cover ledge options better than he could previously. The best part about these buffs in that they seem insignificant to most top players (despite that not being the case) leading them to continue ranking Roy in low tier. The reason this is a large advantage is that Roy players can capitalize on MU inexperience + general underestimation of the character in tournaments moreso than if said players mained a character ranked higher on the tier list such as Mario. More buffs could also come to Roy in the future as a result of his low ranking if balance patches continue.
what labwork has been done to prove this?
It doesn't need lab work, you could tell just by the frame data. 2nd hit sweetspot nair was +0 on shield, sourspot was -1, before the buffs. Now with 2 frames less on his nair it's +2 and +1, which is pretty damn good, means Roy has 2 or 1 more frame advantage than the person shielding, and can for example throw out a grab before the other person can do anything, or a jab if they decide to drop shield or whatever.
Beast 6 doubles for Sm4sh is going on right now if anyone's interested.
http://www.twitch.tv/saltyplayground
Just saw Izaw make an amazing 2v1 comeback a couple of minutes ago.
http://www.twitch.tv/saltyplayground
Just saw Izaw make an amazing 2v1 comeback a couple of minutes ago.
iStudying vs ESAM for best set of 2016
I'm no expect on smash 4 tech but just a general FG thing: frame advantage on aerial attacks is /usually/ listed with the most optimal timing of the attack relative to your landing (unless roy's nair has a stupid good autocancel that I don't know about), so you can't just do the move on shield and assume you're safe (also "safe" is a risky thing to assume with 1f normals and reversal upBs floating around).