Gen VII: Pokémon Sun and Moon (New info Post #5834)

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Psynergy

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I know people associate Zygarde with Xerneas/Yveltal, but I've always wondered since Zygarde was the mediator of order, if it had connections to Kyogre/Groudon as well? There were some elements in ORAS that tied the story to X/Y's, so I wonder, if these game do in fact exist, if it is our "Pokemon Z," not just for X/Y, but ORAS as well? I can see the titles having links to Kyogre/Groudon/Rayquaza.

Obviously that's just theorymon, and a bit of a stretch at that, but I doubt Game Freak is done with Gen VI; there's a lot of unfinished business left in this gen for X/Y and Zygarde.

I guess we'll have more of an idea on what's going on tomorrow.
This is what I'm expecting from this announcement, for Sun/Moon to be the "Z" everyone has been waiting for. It doesn't quite make sense to me for them to place all this focus on the Zygarde formes (reveal its typing, height, etc) and to a lesser extent Volcanion, and then suddenly just gloss over it and move onto a new gen to leave it in the dust. Alternatively this could be a new region [not necessarily with new Pokemon] that takes the Johto approach (but hopefully does it well this time) and involve Zygadre somehow, but whatever this Sun/Moon thing is, I imagine Zygarde has to be related to it in some way. I just don't quite think it's time for an all new Gen 7 but there's not a lot of waiting to find out the answer there.
 
What if this is all a red herring, and the true reveal is something that would make every fan's minds collectively explode?

Either way, I'm excited for this!
 

Pikachu315111

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Well... um... I think... Yeah, I have no idea what to think. Keeping my speculation tone downed, here are the options I see:

Placeholder: Well let's first address this. Yes, Pokemon has made placeholders before like Amethyst and WaterBlue, but these actually have logos (and nicely designed ones). Also I don't recall GF or the Pokemon Company having trademarked unused titles after Gen III since their naming conventions have moved onto something more random (at least that's what I always assumed that's why they did it, to assure someone didn't trademark/copyright the title before them though they'd probably be able to overturn that trademark if they really wanted to use that name)(EDIT: Apparently they did trademark "Gray" for Gen V and "Delta Emerald" for ORAS. Still though I don't think they would have too much problem convincing a court for someone to release a trademark that has "Pokemon" in the name. Say, did they ever trademark "Z"?). Like maybe a handful of people thought "Sun & Moon" and plenty of other games have used that relation before, but from a series who usually named themselves after colors and recently letters was anyone expecting Pokemon to use the pair it would be worth trademarking ahead of time? Plus with some additional "hints" like Masuda tweeting a picture of the moon this doesn't seem like a placeholder. But if it isn't, than what is it?
However I do want to note something about the titles. Look next to the "N" in "Pokemon" for the logos. There seems to be this random extra piece sticking out for some reason. The border follows the words perfectly fine everywhere else, just there both logos has something additional there.

XY2: Okay, so what in the world does the Sun & Moon have to do with the themes of XY? XY's theme is life and death destruction with Zygarde playing the role of balancing these forces. So where does the Sun & Moon come in? Well, philosophically speaking, one could try relating them to Yveltal and Xerneas. Sun & Moon can be used as a metaphor of begining and ending (Sun marks beginning of day, Moon marks end of the day. Xerneas can begin life, Yveltal ends life. Alpha & Omega). Or you could relate their colors to the Mortality Duo: Sun for Yveltal as its red and flies high in the sky while Moon for Xerneas since its blue and Fairy-types have a relation to the moon.
BUT the third won't really be about them, would it? It would or should be about Zygarde. And we know from the anime that Perfect Zygarde is made up of two cores, a red and blue one. Could it be that's where the relation lies? In many of the episodes we do see the Zygarde Core that's with Ash & co. (the red one) absorbing sunlight to energize itself while also looking up at the moon at night (and seemingly able to connect with the surrounding Zygarde Cells while doing so). We haven't really seen much of the Blue Core in the anime (it got captured by Team Flare as of a recent episode and that was during the day) so we don't know what its behavior is like towards the sun and moon. And yes, it's a loose string to hang on and could just be something the animators made up/are being artsy, but hey, who really knows what the anime team was told about Zygarde. So, yeah, maybe they decided forgo the obvious third version/sequel version idea (which they said they were going to do) and instead decided to make sort of standalone games so they could focus on Zygarde.

Gen VII: Then again, if the games were still going to be connected to Kalos than why not just make the connection obvious? Titles like these imply a new generation and those who may hear the title first but not know any background info might get excited as this does sound like a new generation. If these games were to be connected to XY it should be made obvious in the titles for marketing purposes. People who like XY would like a third version/sequel so titles hinting at one would get those people excited, how are they to know that these two new random sounding games are actually connected to Gen VI? But if they are, people who think this is a new generation since we've all been training to expect such naming conventions means new generation would be disappointed to find out these are just Gen VI games, moreso for those who didn't like Gen VI and wants to move on.
Thus, it makes more sense for these games be for the next gen, Gen VII. They've already showed us a new mythical Pokemon, Magearna, and if its going to be in the game it obviously won't be backwards compatible with XY & ORAS so they might as well go to the next generation.
"But... but... what about Zygarde and the loose plot strands"? Well first off this wouldn't be the first time there was loose plot strands left unanswered, I mean it was nice BW2 tied up some of its from BW but Team Flare was already an odd group that leaving some mysterious behind for them seems appropriate. As for Zygarde, well the disaster in XY was adverted so Zygarde didn't need to go Perfect. That's not the case in the anime, thus why Zygarde will need to go Perfect. So if anything Perfect Zygarde was sort of meant to be an anime thing, something to keep the anime's plot moving along until the release of the next games so they could ship Ash to Gen VII's region. Yes, they'll probably put Perfect Zygarde probably will be the new games, but it won't be the focus. It would sort of be like if Kyurem's original form was to released now, people want to see and use it but since we're not in Unova it won't have a role in the story.

Gen 6.5: I'm not really going to speculate much here since such an idea has never been done before so I have no idea what to expect. Like what would they do with titles like this? Pull a Johto and have a region right next to Kalos? Well, actually, we did say Magearna looked like it could be a Legendary for an England region and England is just a swim away from France... But back on track. I suppose if they did that I guess they could still do something with Zygarde while also having new Pokemon and maybe Legendaries. But if so Gen VI would be a pretty weird gen and it'll have so limited backwards compatibility it might as well be a new gen.

In the end, I think tomorrow's Pokemon Direct will explain all.
 
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Opinion on Sun and Moon:
I do like the titles a lot. Different but with the right feel. I like them better than X and Y. I also love those logos.
I think the blank spaces near the N in Pokémon is where the trademark symbol will go in the final version.

Possibility on Sun and Moon:
They will come out next year with this year and Pokémon Direct being Pokémon Z. The copyright being done a year in advance isn't impossible, they just forgot that there would be fans checking copyrights like a hawk.
Again, this is just a theory. I am actually not sure what Sun and Moon will be, though just as I am sure that Supreme Leader Snoke isn't Darth Plagueis, I still have a gut feeling that we aren't getting Generation 6.5*.
This isn't necessarily weird. S&M may have been part of an early pitch, and the quality/quantity of promotional material for pitches tends to vary.
I think we should stick to spelling these titles out. Especially as the jokes write themselves.

*If I am wrong about both, if none of you quote this at me, I am disappointed in you.
 
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Pikachu315111

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Hey, I tried going to www.pokemon-z.com and instead of just saying the domain doesn't exist it simply says there was a connection timeout. Is this anything significant or am I just grasping at straws?

I think we should stick to spelling these titles out. Especially as the jokes write themselves.
Or SM, since that's how were refer to the other games when just using their initials (RBY, GSC, RSE, FRLG, DPP, HGSS, BW, BW2, XY).
 

Codraroll

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What bugs me slightly is this snippet of info released alongside Zygarde's formes:

pokemon.com said:
Zygarde Cell
This stage has been identified as the single Cells that make up Zygarde. Cells do not possess any will or thought processes. They're found scattered throughout the region. Since they can't use any moves, researchers question whether they can even be called Pokémon!

pokemon.com said:
Zygarde Core
At this stage, this aspect of Zygarde is little more than a part of the Pokémon's brain. Unlike the Cells, the Cores are self-aware and can communicate with Cells and other Cores via telepathy. When a change occurs in the local region's ecosystem, Cores have been known to take action.
Doesn't that sound exactly like a game subplot? Get Zygarde-Core at the start of the game, wander around Kalos, pick up cells, eventually building Zygarde's complete forme?

Then again, well... they're not explicitly stating which region they're talking about, so...
 
Here's the thing: if these games are gen 7, then what about the two unused Zygarde signature moves? What about AZ's Floette, with its own BST and signature move? What about the fact that 6 game IDs can be linked to the Blue Pentagon, meaning that there is room in the games coding for 2 more Generation 6 games?

I'm not sure I buy this gen 7 theory stuff, guys. Either these are the two final Gen 6 games, or they are registering the Gen 7 games long in advance.
 

Xen

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What about the fact that 6 game IDs can be linked to the Blue Pentagon, meaning that there is room in the games coding for 2 more Generation 6 games?
Explain plz. First time I've heard anything about the pentagon being linked to a certain number of games.
 

Karxrida

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Explain plz. First time I've heard anything about the pentagon being linked to a certain number of games.
This is old news. I don't know the specifics, but there are 6 data values that are linked to the pentagon or something. 2 are for X and Y and 2 are for ORAS.
 

Xen

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This is old news. I don't know the specifics, but there are 6 data values that are linked to the pentagon or something. 2 are for X and Y and 2 are for ORAS.
Interesting. First time I've heard about it. Always just figured it was meant to be a marker for all 3DS-born Pokemon; never knew there was a certain number of games it was supposed to be associated with.

But yeah, I think people are jumping on the Gen VII bandwagon too quickly. As I mentioned on the last page, there still is a lot of unfinished business left for X/Y, and it seems like major bad marketing for Game Freak to show off Zygarde's new forms, only to not have them show up in a game in the same generation where its roots & lore lay.

I don't doubt Sun/Moon will be Gen VI games, the question is how will they fit into the puzzle?
 
The only reason to assume otherwise is because going into such territory with the new names for a "director's-cut" of 6.5 is highly unusual.
 
The only reason to assume otherwise is because going into such territory with the new names for a "director's-cut" of 6.5 is highly unusual.
Everything is unusual. It's anniversary year. We kinda have to accept that this year can be a toss-up for anything.
 
The idea that Sun and Moon are really X2 and Y2 is interesting, but would be very odd considering the related naming schemes of previous secondary releases...actually, thinking about it, a stranger name is used in even generations whereas more straightforward names are used in odd:
Generation I (Colors): Blue, Yellow
Generation II (Metals): Crystal...not a metal (why not have Entei be the cover Legend and have it be Bronze?)
Generation III (Gemstones): Emerald
Generation IV (Gemstones): Platinum...a metal...did Gen II and IV just get mixed up?
Generation V (Colors...kinda...depends on your definition): Black 2 and White 2
Generation VI (Letters): Sun and Moon?
It's more of a leap than Crystal and Platinum, but stranger things have happened.

Sun Xerneas, Fairy/Fire. Moon Yveltal, Dark/Dark (Moon Moon v2).
Who invited ****ing Moon Moon? (I've been waiting to say that since I read the names this morning!)
 
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Ever since Zygarde's new formes were announced and no game announcement followed, my gut was telling me they were doing something different this time, but I- well no one was expecting this...

The idea that Sun and Moon are really X2 and Y2 is interesting, but would be very odd considering the related naming schemes of previous secondary releases...actually, thinking about it, a stranger name is used in even generations whereas more straightforward names are used in odd:
Generation I (Colors): Blue, Yellow
Generation II (Metals): Crystal...not a metal (why not have Entei be the cover Legend and have it be Bronze?)
Generation III (Gemstones): Emerald
Generation IV (Gemstones): Platinum...a metal...did Gen II and IV just get mixed up?
Generation V (Colors...kinda...depends on your definition): Black 2 and White 2
Generation VI (Letters): Sun and Moon?
It's more of a leap than Crystal and Platinum, but stranger things have happened.
Yeah but why call the sequels Moon and Sun? I mean Xerneas, Yveltal, or Zygarde have no relation to the Moon and the Sun as far as I know. So I guess I'm saying they are more likely to be Gen. 7 games, but at the same time, they can't be done with Gen. 6, can they? I don't know, this shit is to cray.
 
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