VGC Looking to make some changes to my RayOgre team

[Misdreavus]

I had a winning record on Battle Spot with this team, so I decided to take it to Midseason Showdowns. At my first MSS, I got 3rd, but at the second, I finished 2-3. I think it might could use a bit of sprucing up.

Team at-a-glance:

Note: All Pokémon are at level 50.

Kyogre @ Blue Orb
Ability: Drizzle
Modest nature
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 60 SpA / 76 SpD / 4 Spe
-Origin Pulse
-Ice Beam
-Thunder
-Protect

Origin Pulse is a great attack. With Primal Kyogre's massive Special Attack, STAB, and the boost from Primordial Sea, it OHKOs many frail threats and puts a big dent into most everything else. It's also my number 1 option against the ever-popular Primal Groudon. Ice Beam hits Dragon-types like Rayquaza and Salamence. I chose Thunder mainly as an option against other Primal Kyogre. I don't trust Water Spout. The EV spread was suggested to me by Draconid777. It allows Kyogre to guarantee survival from a max Atk Brave Ferrothorn's Power Whip and a +2 Timid Xerneas's Grass Knot.

/

Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
Hasty nature
IVs: 30/31/29/31/31/31
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
-Dragon Ascent
-Draco Meteor
-Extreme Speed
-Protect

Rayquaza is a very valuable partner for Kyogre. With Air Lock or Delta Stream, Rayquaza can negate or override (respectively) Desolate Land, allowing Kyogre to use Origin Pulse. Dragon Ascent is my main STAB attack, which hits very hard with Life Orb. Draco Meteor is my second, and it OHKOs fast and frail Primal Groudon. With the aid of Cresselia's Helping Hand, it's an OHKO on any Primal Groudon. ExtremeSpeed is a nice +2 priority attack that even goes before opponents' Follow Me. I chose Hasty over Naive as my nature since I have Intimidate to weaken physical attacks.

Thundurus @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
Calm nature
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Def / 4 SpA / 180 SpD / 28 Spe
-Thunderbolt
-Thunder Wave
-Taunt
-Role Play

Thundurus is infamous mainly for one thing - Prankster Thunder Wave. As one of my team's forms of speed control, it's great against Pokémon like Kangaskhan, Rayquaza, and Salamence. Thunderbolt is for STAB, and it can score an easy kill against Talonflame leads who Quick Guard in anticipation of me using Taunt or Thunder Wave. Taunt stops Pokémon like Smeargle and Cresselia. Role Play is a controversial choice, but on multiple occasions, it has allowed me to overwrite Desolate Land with my Primordial Sea and give Primal Groudon a nasty surprise in the form of an OHKO via Primal Kyogre's Origin Pulse. Unfortunately, it removes Thundurus's Prankster ability, but I find it to be worth it. The EV spread was recommended to me by Kasoman of NuggetBridge. It allows Thundurus to survive a full-power spread Eruption from Primal Groudon, a spread Origin Pulse from Primal Kyogre, a Double-Edge from M-Kangaskhan, and also keeps Primal Groudon's Rock Slide at a 3HKO, the latter two thanks to Sitrus Berry. The Speed EVs are to speed creep opposing bulky Thundurus.

/

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Naive nature
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 36 Atk / 220 SpA / 252 Spe
-Draco Meteor
-Double-Edge
-Fire Blast
-Protect

Draco Meteor is a good STAB attack that is effective even if I choose not to mega evolve (to preserve Intimidate or if my one mega evolution is used on Rayquaza). Mega or not, Salamence outspeeds Mega Rayquaza and can OHKO it with Draco Meteor. If I do mega evolve, Double-Edge is my primary attack of choice. Fire Blast is for Ferrothorn, who is otherwise a problem for my team. The Special Attack EVs guarantee that it OHKOs most Ferrothorn, and after maxing Speed, the remaining EVs are placed into Attack for Double-Edge.

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
Brave nature
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/0
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Atk / 132 SpD
-Gyro Ball
-Power Whip
-Leech Seed
-Protect

This Ferrothorn is a slightly more offensive reincarnation of a Pokémon I used to a good degree of success in the B/W days of VGC. Ferrothorn is a great answer to 2 of the most popular Pokémon in the metagame: Primal Kyogre and Xerneas. With the 140 Attack EVs, Ferrothorn OHKOs 252 SpA / 252 Spe Xerneas (before Geomancy) and 252 SpA / 252 Spe Primal Kyogre with Gyro Ball and Power Whip, respectively. Meanwhile, it can withstand their most powerful attacks thanks to its typing and great natural bulk. Leech Seed and Leftovers help Ferrothorn's longevity, and allow it to stall out Pokémon like Cresselia.

Cresselia @ Mental Herb
Ability: Levitate
Sassy nature
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/3
EVs: 244 HP / 172 Def / 92 SpD
-Ice Beam
-Helping Hand
-Magic Coat
-Trick Room

Cresselia provides me with a second form of speed control. While Cresselia's Special Attack isn't particularly strong, Ice Beam hits a number of the metagame's main Pokémon for double or quadruple damage. Helping Hand allows me to turn 2HKOs into OHKOs (most notably M-Rayquaza's Draco Meteor on bulky Primal Groudon) and 3HKOs into 2HKOs. Magic Coat is my answer to Smeargle's Dark Void. If I expect my opponent to lead with Smeargle, I'll lead with Cresselia, use Magic Coat, and have my partner Protect. Trick Room can twist the dimensions if doing so would be in my favor (against fast teams like Standard 6), or it can return them to normal against teams that rely on Trick Room themselves. The EV spread, also provided by Draconid777, guarantees that I survive a +1 Life Orb Dragon Ascent from M-Rayquaza. Mental Herb is mainly used here because Sitrus Berry is being used on Thundurus, but it's nice to have against Taunt.

One of the most difficult decisions I have when using my team is when to mega evolve Salamence. If I do, not only do I lose Intimidate if I switch out and back in, but more importantly, I also lose the ability to mega evolve Rayquaza, who I bring almost every game. I also have trouble with the popular Groudon/Xerneas combo. Occasional Dialga are trouble too, as my best option against them is to stall them out with Ferrothorn's Leech Seed. Gothitelle and M-Gengar Shadow Tag leads have given me fits too.

I could see Thundurus, Salamence, and maybe even Cresselia being switched out for something better.

What do you all think? I have PCs and another MSS coming up, and I'd like to get some more CP! :)

 

[iPRODiGY VGC]

Hey there Misdreavus, you're your team looks great. So great in fact that me and Draconid997 talked about this for some time. I'm sure he'll be by later, he's pretty good at coming up with stuff I miss. On to the rate;

You team matches up very well to most common Threats in the meta, however since you talked about wanting another intimidate option and having some trouble with your Dialga matchup, I'm going to suggest Landorus over Cresselia. My reasoning for this is that with his intimidate option, he and Salamence can provide very fast intimidate shuffling, and U-Turn provides a way to get a free switch into Salamence while keeping momentum up.

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 156 Atk / 92 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- U-turn
- Superpower

This spread (courtesy of Draconid997) makes Talonflames Brave Bird a 3HKO, while also outspeeding max speed Primal Groudon.

This is about all I could come up with. If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to drop them below. Good luck with your team and future tournaments :)

Edit: Man nobody pointed out I used you're over your?

 

[Draconid997]

Hey Misdreavus!
I remember rating this team a while back, and i think you were right about reposting it now, since the meta has evolved quite substantially since then.
Okay so onto the rate.

Since you last posted, we've seen a whole lot more usage of Dialga/Kyogre teams as you mentioned, which specifically counter RayOgre teams such as this one.

I completely agree with iPRODiGY's suggestion of Landorus-T over cresselia. This will allow you to nab the 2HKO on most dialga, although you can still use a 4/252/252 spread so that you can get a 2HKO on bulky dialga variants when at -1, since most Dialga/Kyogre lead with their intimidators:

• 252 Atk Choice Band Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 116 Def Dialga: 162-192 (78.6 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 156 Atk Choice Band Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 116 Def Dialga: 152-180 (73.7 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• -1 252 Atk Choice Band Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 116 Def Dialga: 108-128 (52.4 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• -1 156 Atk Choice Band Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 116 Def Dialga: 102-120 (49.5 - 58.2%) -- 96.5% chance to 2HKO

This is only nitpicky, plus, the 4/156/92/x/4/252 spread will help ferrothorn a bunch

Now if you are still concerned about the Dialga/Kyogre matchup, you can go two ways:
- Stick with your RayOgre team and make minor changes
- Use a Dialga/Kyogre team (this would only involve switching rayquaza to dialga after the cresselia->landorus-t switch)

Really this is only up to personal preference, but i would say that it would be nice to experiment with. Dialga gives you a much more methodical playstyle than rayquaza does, allowing you to bring a Trick Room mode to improve matchups such as RayOgre etc.
Dialga will also allow you to:
1) Improve your matchup against Dialga/Kyogre teams
2) Improve your matchup against RayOgre teams
3) Slightly improve your matchup against Big 6 teams
4) You won't have to worry about when to mega evolve salamence since this would be a single-mega team

So there are two dialga sets that i would typically recommend:

Dialga @ Sitrus Berry / Lum Berry*
Ability: Telepathy
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 116 Def / 68 SpA / 76 SpD / 4 Spe
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 116 SpA / 76 SpD / 4 Spe*
Modest Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower / Flash Cannon
- Trick Room
- Protect

*Lum Berry works best with this EV spread

These sets are pretty cool. Moves first though:
Dragon pulse>Draco Meteor since you can still one-shot a mega salamence with dragon pulse, and it means you don't have to worry about the SpA drop whilst under TR conditions.
Flamethrower is the less common coverage move choice on dialga, but it will allow you to get the kill on ferrothorn most of the time, depending on spread choice (2HKO on bulkier variants)
Flash cannon is the more popular coverage move going by usage, and allows you to hit stuff like xerneas which is pretty cool
Lum berry is predominantly for smeargle, since you would be losing cresselia, and sitrus berry is for some key benchmarks which i will explain a little later
So the EVs will allow you to do a bunch of things.
The second spread is a little simpler, and will allow you to survive a precipice blades from physical primal groudon whilst simultaneously surviving an earth power from special primal groudon, as well as stuff like draco meteor from mega rayquaza:

• 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 60 Def Dialga: 174-206 (84 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252+ SpA Primal Groudon Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 76 SpD Dialga: 174-206 (84 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252 SpA Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 76 SpD Dialga: 172-203 (83 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The 244 HP on the second set will reach an even number at level 50, which means that crobat's super fang will activate the sitrus berry, allowing you to survive things that you wouldn't necessarily survive without, such as a precipice blades from physical primal groudon once it has been intimidated etc
What this also entails is that you get to survive 3 precipice blades from intimidated physical primal groudon, which is a surprising benchmark given that dialga is weak to ground type attacks:

• -1 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 244 HP / 116 Def Dialga: 110-132 (53.3 - 64%) -- 3.5% chance to 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery

Dialga is best led with landorus-t, as by getting the intimidate off, you will be able to guarantee that you achieve these benchmarks, and thanks to dialga's telepathy ability, landorus can use explosion to clear the field and let the next mon come in on a free switch:

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 156 Atk / 92 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- U-turn
- Explosion

So if you choose to run sitrus berry dialga, this would mean running a different item on thundurus, which is something else that i wanted to pick up on:

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 36 HP / 220 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wild Charge
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt
- Protect

Yep, a physical thundurus. This is something I've been testing out with iPRODiGY VGC and GradeAGarchomp, and in theory it can do a lot of work. Thundurus is one of your main primal kyogre checks along with ferrothorn and now maybe dialga, and this will now allow you to get the OHKO on most variants of kyogre with wild charge, something that will surprise quite a lot of opponents:

• 220 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Wild Charge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 198-234 (112.5 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(You will need to have something to dish out a bit of chip damage if you want to OHKO some bulkier Kyogre variants)
The 36 HP EVs will mean that you hit a stat of 159 at level 50, which minimises life orb recoil (10n-1 rule)

Other small changes i would suggest:

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers / Expert Belt
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Atk / 28 SpD
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Atk / 60 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Okay so the first set will gain you one more point in special defence, whilst the second spread is a spread that i have been using, as it will still allow you to get the OHKO on most boosted xerneas, but will also survive 3 water spouts from primal kyogre. Expert belt is another item that GradeAGarchomp used that caught my attention, as it will allow ferrothorn to OHKO primal kyogre as well as xerneas:

• 196 Atk Expert Belt Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 204-245 (115.9 - 139.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• 196 Atk Expert Belt Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 245-290 (121.2 - 143.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• 196 Atk (Leftovers) Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 204-242 (100.9 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 60+ SpD Ferrothorn in Heavy Rain: 76-90 (41.9 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

And that's all i can say, hope i helped you out :)
Again, this is a great team and good luck with it in your upcoming tournaments

Here is a link to the pastebin for your rated team (with dialga)
http://pastebin.com/86gFDHVQ

 

[Misdreavus]

Hey there Misdreavus, you're your team looks great. So great in fact that me and Draconid997 talked about this for some time. I'm sure he'll be by later, he's pretty good at coming up with stuff I miss. On to the rate;

You team matches up very well to most common Threats in the meta, however since you talked about wanting another intimidate option and having some trouble with your Dialga matchup, I'm going to suggest Landorus over Cresselia. My reasoning for this is that with his intimidate option, he and Salamence can provide very fast intimidate shuffling, and U-Turn provides a way to get a free switch into Salamence while keeping momentum up.

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 156 Atk / 92 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- U-turn
- Superpower

This spread (courtesy of Draconid997) makes Talonflames Brave Bird a 3HKO, while also outspeeding max speed Primal Groudon.

This is about all I could come up with. If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to drop them below. Good luck with your team and future tournaments :)

Edit: Man nobody pointed out I used you're over your?

Wow... I think it's awesome that you two liked my team enough to talk about it extensively! I actually originally had a Landorus over Salamence, but that was back when my team was quite different. I may try it over Cresselia.

Hey Misdreavus!
I remember rating this team a while back, and i think you were right about reposting it now, since the meta has evolved quite substantially since then.
Okay so onto the rate.

Since you last posted, we've seen a whole lot more usage of Dialga/Kyogre teams as you mentioned, which specifically counter RayOgre teams such as this one.

I completely agree with iPRODiGY's suggestion of Landorus-T over cresselia. This will allow you to nab the 2HKO on most dialga, although you can still use a 4/252/252 spread so that you can get a 2HKO on bulky dialga variants when at -1, since most Dialga/Kyogre lead with their intimidators:

• 252 Atk Choice Band Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 116 Def Dialga: 162-192 (78.6 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 156 Atk Choice Band Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 116 Def Dialga: 152-180 (73.7 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• -1 252 Atk Choice Band Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 116 Def Dialga: 108-128 (52.4 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• -1 156 Atk Choice Band Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 116 Def Dialga: 102-120 (49.5 - 58.2%) -- 96.5% chance to 2HKO

This is only nitpicky, plus, the 4/156/92/x/4/252 spread will help ferrothorn a bunch

Now if you are still concerned about the Dialga/Kyogre matchup, you can go two ways:
- Stick with your RayOgre team and make minor changes
- Use a Dialga/Kyogre team (this would only involve switching rayquaza to dialga after the cresselia->landorus-t switch)

Really this is only up to personal preference, but i would say that it would be nice to experiment with. Dialga gives you a much more methodical playstyle than rayquaza does, allowing you to bring a Trick Room mode to improve matchups such as RayOgre etc.
Dialga will also allow you to:
1) Improve your matchup against Dialga/Kyogre teams
2) Improve your matchup against RayOgre teams
3) Slightly improve your matchup against Big 6 teams
4) You won't have to worry about when to mega evolve salamence since this would be a single-mega team

So there are two dialga sets that i would typically recommend:

Dialga @ Sitrus Berry / Lum Berry*
Ability: Telepathy
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 116 Def / 68 SpA / 76 SpD / 4 Spe
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 116 SpA / 76 SpD / 4 Spe*
Modest Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower / Flash Cannon
- Trick Room
- Protect

*Lum Berry works best with this EV spread

These sets are pretty cool. Moves first though:
Dragon pulse>Draco Meteor since you can still one-shot a mega salamence with dragon pulse, and it means you don't have to worry about the SpA drop whilst under TR conditions.
Flamethrower is the less common coverage move choice on dialga, but it will allow you to get the kill on ferrothorn most of the time, depending on spread choice (2HKO on bulkier variants)
Flash cannon is the more popular coverage move going by usage, and allows you to hit stuff like xerneas which is pretty cool
Lum berry is predominantly for smeargle, since you would be losing cresselia, and sitrus berry is for some key benchmarks which i will explain a little later
So the EVs will allow you to do a bunch of things.
The second spread is a little simpler, and will allow you to survive a precipice blades from physical primal groudon whilst simultaneously surviving an earth power from special primal groudon, as well as stuff like draco meteor from mega rayquaza:

• 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 60 Def Dialga: 174-206 (84 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252+ SpA Primal Groudon Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 76 SpD Dialga: 174-206 (84 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252 SpA Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 76 SpD Dialga: 172-203 (83 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The 244 HP on the second set will reach an even number at level 50, which means that crobat's super fang will activate the sitrus berry, allowing you to survive things that you wouldn't necessarily survive without, such as a precipice blades from physical primal groudon once it has been intimidated etc
What this also entails is that you get to survive 3 precipice blades from intimidated physical primal groudon, which is a surprising benchmark given that dialga is weak to ground type attacks:

• -1 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 244 HP / 116 Def Dialga: 110-132 (53.3 - 64%) -- 3.5% chance to 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery

Dialga is best led with landorus-t, as by getting the intimidate off, you will be able to guarantee that you achieve these benchmarks, and thanks to dialga's telepathy ability, landorus can use explosion to clear the field and let the next mon come in on a free switch:

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 156 Atk / 92 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- U-turn
- Explosion

So if you choose to run sitrus berry dialga, this would mean running a different item on thundurus, which is something else that i wanted to pick up on:

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 36 HP / 220 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wild Charge
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt
- Protect

Yep, a physical thundurus. This is something I've been testing out with iPRODiGY VGC and GradeAGarchomp, and in theory it can do a lot of work. Thundurus is one of your main primal kyogre checks along with ferrothorn and now maybe dialga, and this will now allow you to get the OHKO on most variants of kyogre with wild charge, something that will surprise quite a lot of opponents:

• 220 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Wild Charge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 198-234 (112.5 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(You will need to have something to dish out a bit of chip damage if you want to OHKO some bulkier Kyogre variants)
The 36 HP EVs will mean that you hit a stat of 159 at level 50, which minimises life orb recoil (10n-1 rule)

Other small changes i would suggest:

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers / Expert Belt
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Atk / 28 SpD
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Atk / 60 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Okay so the first set will gain you one more point in special defence, whilst the second spread is a spread that i have been using, as it will still allow you to get the OHKO on most boosted xerneas, but will also survive 3 water spouts from primal kyogre. Expert belt is another item that GradeAGarchomp used that caught my attention, as it will allow ferrothorn to OHKO primal kyogre as well as xerneas:

• 196 Atk Expert Belt Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 204-245 (115.9 - 139.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• 196 Atk Expert Belt Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 245-290 (121.2 - 143.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• 196 Atk (Leftovers) Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 204-242 (100.9 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 60+ SpD Ferrothorn in Heavy Rain: 76-90 (41.9 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

And that's all i can say, hope i helped you out :)
Again, this is a great team and good luck with it in your upcoming tournaments

Here is a link to the pastebin for your rated team (with dialga)
http://pastebin.com/86gFDHVQ

Hello again! Thanks so much... I really appreciate your detailed replies. I like the idea of Dialga, but I don't know where to find a legit Telepathy one :(. You wouldn't happen to know anyone with one, would you? I'm glad you pointed out that my Ferrothorn spread was inefficient. Physical Thundurus sounds interesting as well.

My only qualm with bringing in the Dialga over Rayquaza is that I think it would hurt my matchup with Primal Groudon, since I no longer have the option of switching in Rayquaza and negating/overriding Desolate Land, and I lose my second-best offensive option against it (M-Rayquaza's Draco Meteor). However, the Landorus would help against Primal Groudon, so I have that at least.

If I can't get the Telepathy Dialga, then what do you suggest I do?

Also, if I do get it and run Landorus over Cresselia, would you keep Salamence, or switch it out for another mega, i.e. Kangaskhan?

 

[Draconid997]

You wouldn't happen to know anyone with one, would you?

I'm pretty sure that there are people on nugget bridge with them, i've seen some with 6IVs
If you try asking all over the place, simple req's etc, i'm sure you'll get what you need eventually

it would hurt my matchup with Primal Groudon

It would slightly, but:
1) You have double intimidate
2) You have 2 of the best non-restricted counters to it (salamence/landorus-t), as well as kyogre

Also, if I do get it and run Landorus over Cresselia, would you keep Salamence, or switch it out for another mega, i.e. Kangaskhan?

I would definitely keep salamence, as it also boosts your matchup against rayquaza, which means you're not forced to bring dialga in, which is super important

 

[Misdreavus]

I'm pretty sure that there are people on nugget bridge with them, i've seen some with 6IVs
If you try asking all over the place, simple req's etc, i'm sure you'll get what you need eventually


It would slightly, but:
1) You have double intimidate
2) You have 2 of the best non-restricted counters to it (salamence/landorus-t), as well as kyogre


I would definitely keep salamence, as it also boosts your matchup against rayquaza, which means you're not forced to bring dialga in, which is super important

Thanks. I'll ask around about the Dialga.

I'd like to make sure I have a good matchup against Groudon/Xerneas. It's what I lost to in top 4 in my first MSS (despite beating him in swiss), and I lost to the same person again in my second tourney (he's a really good player... has his invite to Worlds already). Any suggestions for that? I believe he said that his worst matchup is RayOgre with Crobat.

 

[GradeAGarchomp]

Thanks. I'll ask around about the Dialga.

I'd like to make sure I have a good matchup against Groudon/Xerneas. It's what I lost to in top 4 in my first MSS (despite beating him in swiss), and I lost to the same person again in my second tourney (he's a really good player... has his invite to Worlds already). Any suggestions for that? I believe he said that his worst matchup is RayOgre with Crobat.

your xerneas/don matchup is quite nice with ferro as a good xern check with mence and lando as Don checks which is enough in my opinion. your team functions similarly to a rayogre team in that you fire off powerful hits with the rest of your mons to help support it, so if happen to see the exact team again, you should be fine.