[DONE] Setting the Default Atk IVs to 0 if the Pokemon doesn't have a Physical Attack

Stratos

Banned deucer.
tehy wanted me to post this, and despite it being tehy, it's not embarrassingly stupid so

Ok, so I know me and c&c haven't necessarily been on the best terms, but back in the day this explanation of 'it's obvious' always rubbed me the wrong way. Basically, it stems from the assumption that just because something is a good idea, people are automatically going to do it, even though a lot of people might never have thought about it.

The most obvious thing to do in this situation is use empirical evidence. Now, currently IV data doesn't seem to be logged (I shot a VM to Antar, so we'll see from there), so the next best thing would be a lot of anecdotal data. Luckily, circa BW2 I was in the habit of using the same team for every battle and playing hundreds of games; this team included a Foul Play Sableye. Moreover, I preferred simply memorizing damage ranges I took / dished out instead of using calcs - in fact, I did this so often that I noticed my Foul Plays did more damage to Pokemon with boosting items than to those same Pokemon with, say, Leftovers - apparently the Foul Play damage formula was incorrect, and thanks to me it was fixed.

Anyhow, a while later i was looking at a calc of Trick Room Reuniclus taking Sableye's Foul Play. I had put my pride on the line, stating that Sableye could 2HKO Reuniclus with Foul Play. And yet, even after the opponent's item was taken out of the equation, I was seeing damage values that I had legitimately never seen under battlefield conditions. Then I realised - the calculator had given me 0 Atk IVs!

Now granted this was way back in BW2 and admittedly Foul Play was kind of new. But then again, confusion sure wasn't (albeit rare), Swagger wasn't banned - why weren't people making the 'obvious' move to mitigate risk from these areas when using full-on special attackers? And the answer is, they probably never thought about it - or maybe they took the smogon importable and went from there out of laziness. Either way...

Also, just as a personal point: there's many things that might seem obvious to you, but people don't necessarily know. For example, 'the last 4 EVs should always go to SpD to mess with Genesect's Download', or 'you should always hit Leftovers numbers)- those are things that, once people know about them, they will do, but until then they might need Smogon to tell them about it.

To bring this to a close: there's certainly the option for the teambuilder to do an end-run around c&c and just preset the Atk IV as necessary, and as I recall Oglemi once said the Smogon Pokedex itself might just auto-apply those IVs to the sets once it's fully functional, but the question is: do you want to solve your problem yourself or have someone else do it for you? There's certainly an argument that the teambuilder ought to handle this, though, so either way is fine. That said it's looking a bit dicey on that front...
tl;dr it may seem obvious that u should minimize attack IVs but in lieu of IV stats which don't exist his personal experience spamming foul play on ladder tells him most people don't, so maybe it's worth listing in analyses
 

Zarel

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I don't think there's too much of a need to keep arguing this. There's pretty significant consensus that this is a good idea. Just roll with it.
 

Zarel

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This is now done: When you add/remove a move from a set (in Gen 3-6), your Atk IVs will be adjusted to compensate.

(Old teams are not retconned.)

Right now, adding TR or Gyro Ball will set Spe to 0, but removing them will not do anything to Spe. There are too many reasons why someone might want their Spe at 0 for me to feel comfortable changing it back automatically.
 

atomicllamas

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Right now, adding TR or Gyro Ball will set Spe to 0, but removing them will not do anything to Spe. There are too many reasons why someone might want their Spe at 0 for me to feel comfortable changing it back automatically.
I think removing them should remax the IVs. When I am consciously trying to make my pokemon slow (such as on a Trick Room, even if it isn't the TR setter), I remember to check the Speed IVs (even on TR and gyro mons), cause setting them to 0 is different from the norm. However, on scarf mons I have misclicked and had Trick Room on the set rather than Trick, when I noticed and changed it back to Trick, I was outsped by several opposing scarf mons I should not have been before I realized I was missing IVs.

Because the default is 31 IVs unless the Pokemon has TR or Gyro, it makes sense to me to revert it to 31 IVs if they don't have these moves, since people should be used to checking a mon's speed IVs if they want them to be 0 (where as they aren't used to reverting them back). If I'm the only one whose brain thinks this way then ignore this, but I lost several games in 2014 because my Choice Scarf Delphox had 0 Speed IVs.
 

Zarel

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I think removing them should remax the IVs. When I am consciously trying to make my pokemon slow (such as on a Trick Room, even if it isn't the TR setter), I remember to check the Speed IVs (even on TR and gyro mons), cause setting them to 0 is different from the norm. However, on scarf mons I have misclicked and had Trick Room on the set rather than Trick, when I noticed and changed it back to Trick, I was outsped by several opposing scarf mons I should not have been before I realized I was missing IVs.

Because the default is 31 IVs unless the Pokemon has TR or Gyro, it makes sense to me to revert it to 31 IVs if they don't have these moves, since people should be used to checking a mon's speed IVs if they want them to be 0 (where as they aren't used to reverting them back). If I'm the only one whose brain thinks this way then ignore this, but I lost several games in 2014 because my Choice Scarf Delphox had 0 Speed IVs.
Fair enough. Done.

edit: also, 1 Like for implementing the thing everyone's been asking for, and 14 Likes for asking for a minor change in it? ruuuuude
 
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shiloh

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hi there has been a problem w/ this when you have a special attacker using a hidden power as it changes the hidden power type to random things sometimes. like just now i had a politoed w/ HP grass in the builder, but as soon as I got into battle it was HP Dark even though the builder said it should be HP Grass. idk what is causing this problem, but a fix would be really nice.

http://puu.sh/oKe97/9c9a20845c.png / http://puu.sh/oKe5F/8b80624cee.png / http://puu.sh/oKe7Z/4d697e461c.png

edit: well if thats the case i guess make it more clear which hp it will be in battle, since its a bit confusing when i have hp grass in two places and it appears as hp dark in battle :x
 
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baconbagon

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hi there has been a problem w/ this when you have a special attacker using a hidden power as it changes the hidden power type to random things sometimes. like just now i had a politoed w/ HP grass in the builder, but as soon as I got into battle it was HP Dark even though the builder said it should be HP Grass. idk what is causing this problem, but a fix would be really nice.

http://puu.sh/oKe97/9c9a20845c.png / http://puu.sh/oKe5F/8b80624cee.png / http://puu.sh/oKe7Z/4d697e461c.png
I don't think the builder is saying that the IVs should be HP Grass in that scenario. The box just lets you choose an IV spread that outputs HP Grass. Since all your IVs are odd, you get the normal 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 type which is Dark. You'd have to actually click the drop-down box and pick a spread to get HP Grass in the battle
 

Zarel

Not a Yuyuko fan
is a Site Content Manageris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Programmeris a Pokemon Researcheris an Administrator
Creator of PS
hi there has been a problem w/ this when you have a special attacker using a hidden power as it changes the hidden power type to random things sometimes. like just now i had a politoed w/ HP grass in the builder, but as soon as I got into battle it was HP Dark even though the builder said it should be HP Grass. idk what is causing this problem, but a fix would be really nice.

http://puu.sh/oKe97/9c9a20845c.png / http://puu.sh/oKe5F/8b80624cee.png / http://puu.sh/oKe7Z/4d697e461c.png

edit: well if thats the case i guess make it more clear which hp it will be in battle, since its a bit confusing when i have hp grass in two places and it appears as hp dark in battle :x
In five years, this is the first time anyone's actually been confused by this. Most people know that if you change IVs, your Hidden Power type changes too.

Anyway, fixed. Hidden Power type now autoupdates when you change IVs.
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
In five years, this is the first time anyone's actually been confused by this. Most people know that if you change IVs, your Hidden Power type changes too.

Anyway, fixed. Hidden Power type now autoupdates when you change IVs.
someone liked my post in this thread which reminded me: can you make it so that taking hidden power off a set re-sets all IVs to 31? (except for 0 spe/atk as appropriate). It's a pretty common occurence for someone to post an importable and a mon has "hidden power EVs" despite having no hidden power because of a set change. It's happened to me a bunch.
 

Zarel

Not a Yuyuko fan
is a Site Content Manageris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Programmeris a Pokemon Researcheris an Administrator
Creator of PS
someone liked my post in this thread which reminded me: can you make it so that taking hidden power off a set re-sets all IVs to 31? (except for 0 spe/atk as appropriate). It's a pretty common occurence for someone to post an importable and a mon has "hidden power EVs" despite having no hidden power because of a set change. It's happened to me a bunch.
Um, we already do this. If someone has Hidden Power IVs with Hidden Power, it's because they removed Hidden Power using a method other than the teambuilder, e.g. manually editing the importable or something.

To be exact, removing Hidden Power will change all 30 IVs to 31, and all 0-3 IVs to 0.
 
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Jibaku

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Gonna bring up the issue of Trick Room autosetting to 0 IV because frankly it's rather annoying. It's been brought up before but it has never been fully addressed so I'm bringing it up again.

Trick Room speeds are often relative to everything else in the metagame, unlike the case with Foul Play/confusion and Gyro Ball (arguable) where having minimum stats is almost universally better. In the context of VGC especially, some of the best TR setters often don't run 0 Speed. Cresselia often runs 8 or 31 (or 7 if you don't want taking Icy Wind to cause your Cress to speedtie your 0 Speed Primal), perhaps more often than 0 in most teams. 0, 20, and 31 Speed on Dialga are all equally viable choices. Given the relative nature of Trick Room speed, I don't think defaulting to 0 is a general positive. Furthermore, 0 Speed on Trick Room undermines its secondary use of reversing itself.

Also it's annoying because I'd often set up my IVs before putting in moves and it'd change the IV to 0, causing me to wonder why I'm not under/outspeeding certain things.
 
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Aberforth

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Also something worth noting is that this policy in conjunction with hidden powers can cause pokemon to be illegal. Most notably, Xerneas cannot run Hidden Power Rock, because you get this:



And HP Rock has no combinations that allow min attack but 3 perfect IVs, which Xerneas requires.

So basically could this not apply to legendary pokemon please? Or not apply in conjunction with hidden power at least.

E: Yes you can change it with the scroll down box thing, but it'd be nice for the teambuilder to not pop up with impossible spreads in the first place.
 
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