[DONE] JOHTO CLASSIC - Post your results!

[Psynergy]

To be fair, after Kanto Classic I think 3v3 is just a better format for a singles battle competition, 6v6 takes an excruciating amount of time when you have to play a ton of battles so 3v3 is a good call here. Items also helps this from being a slow metagame. I am expecting Smeargle + Espeon BP chains though, like I'll be surprised if that doesn't pop up at some point because we've got some scary BP chain tools here with Johto Pokemon.

Also English name is known to be Johto Classic and it's confirmed we'll get a Pokemon distribution. Please be HA beasts finally.

 

[zapzap29]

Oh man I am so hyped for this competition! Johto has so many fun mons to mess around with. And items too, good job Gamefreak. Rain seems like it could be really powerful in 3 v 3 with Kingdra and Kabutops especially if your opponent doesn't bring Ninetales or Tyranitar. And since you get 6 mons total you don't have to run weather if your opponent has pokemon that might counteract it.


I wonder how useful Stall will be in this meta. I doubt it'll be as good as it was in Kanto Classic due to the high number of potential Sheer Cold abusers and only having access to 3 mons. That being said though Johto Classic also gives access to Skarmory, Blissey, and Eviolite Chansey so there are a lot of mons with good defensive potential. I think there's a lot of potential for balanced and defensive leaning cores. Can't wait for the ladder to go up on Showdown so I can start watching and playing.

 

[PumpedAaron]

Well, from a retroactive standpoint, Gen II was originally a rather slow and deliberate format. Lots of switching and counter-switching. Now with EVs, items, and certain moves, I suppose the pace will be accelerated a lot, huh? Hey, why hasn't anyone talked about Azumarill much, a really strong Battlespot Singles mon, right?!

 

[ProjectTitan313]

Aww, Zammy can't just sweep entire teams with Psychic + Shadow Ball now that Dark exists. Oh well, Granbull and Azumarill helps with that.
Sturdy Eviolite Magneton really gives -15 fucks about Suicune guys. Also, faster Sub > Sheer Cold. Skarm wil probably run Shed Shell to make Magnet Pull useless anyway, and opposing Forretress / Magneton / Scizor can U-Turn and Volt Switch.
Arcanine is EXTREMELY powerful in Sun guys, personal experience. Rain has huge power here too, idk what Sand's really going to do, but Entei and Arcanine especially will blow your mind on KO potential. Mega Zammy loves Rain teams too, nothing outspeeds Swift Swim Mega Zammy. Nothing.

For the love of Talos we need HA dogs.
Will try do this one, I adored Johto.

 

[The Squash]

I think the biggest threat to consider in this metagame is going to be sheer cold suicune.

Given that sheer cold suicune might be such a big threat, it might be good to use pokemon with sturdy. The list of all fully evolved pokemon with sturdy in gen 2 is:
Donphan
Forretress
Golem
Magneton
Shuckle
Skarmory
Steelix
Sudowoodo
Of all the pokemon on this list only forretress, skarmory, and magneton aren't hit super-effectively by suicune's STAB. I would say that magneton would be the best at countering it out of all sturdy pokemon.

 

[Ricky Rochester]

Aww, Zammy can't just sweep entire teams with Psychic + Shadow Ball now that Dark exists. Oh well, Granbull and Azumarill helps with that.
Sturdy Eviolite Magneton really gives -15 fucks about Suicune guys. Also, faster Sub > Sheer Cold. Skarm wil probably run Shed Shell to make Magnet Pull useless anyway, and opposing Forretress / Magneton / Scizor can U-Turn and Volt Switch.
Arcanine is EXTREMELY powerful in Sun guys, personal experience. Rain has huge power here too, idk what Sand's really going to do, but Entei and Arcanine especially will blow your mind on KO potential. Mega Zammy loves Rain teams too, nothing outspeeds Swift Swim Mega Zammy. Nothing.

For the love of Talos we need HA dogs.
Will try do this one, I adored Johto.

No mega stones for Mega Zammy m8...

 

[Arco223]

Im definitely feeling like magneton will be very useful in countering those sheer cold suicunes thanks to its electric STAB and sturdy, and i dont know why people are discounting clefable the only steel types introduced this gen were forrtress, skarmory, steelix, and scizor and among them the only one that is really offensive is scizor, and with that clefable still gets flamethrower and fire blast to keep it on its er.... toe. There has also been a lack of talk of azumarill who will be joing the roster in this competition too and with its huge power and great typing im feeling like we will see some great things out of it especially if tyranitar is a commonly used mon.

 

[DragonWhale]

English name is revealed to be "Johto Classic". The title has been edited.

 

[6tennis]

Almost forgot. Tagging The Immortal so this can be implemented in PS! pls

 

[DragonWhale]

Almost forgot. Tagging The Immortal so this can be implemented in PS! pls

It's already added. The server just has to restart.

 

[ProjectTitan313]

No mega stones for Mega Zammy m8...

Oh, oops.
That's ok, Focus Sash / LO / Specs / Flame Orb / etc give me plenty of stupid things to do.
Does make Kingdra / Kabutops more concerning though.

 

[lucariomaster2]

DD Feraligatr looks like it has the potential to be a great sweeper in this meta.

EDIT: Actually, going through the list of Gen II Pokemon, there are a lot of amazing Physical attackers legal in this format with Scizor, Heracross, Azumarill, Feraligatr, Crobat, Entei, and Tyranitar (not counting any Gen I mons). I suspect Skarmory to be pretty popular as a counter to them.

Magneton is another Pokemon I expect to see a fair bit of because Magnet Pull ones trap and destroy Skarm, paving the way for a Physical sweep, while Sturdy can beat Sheer Cold Suicune.

 

[Moody Magikarp]

Really glad that this isn't 6v6. It's just a pain playing a 6v6 battle on cart.

To be fair, after Kanto Classic I think 3v3 is just a better format for a singles battle competition, 6v6 takes an excruciating amount of time when you have to play a ton of battles so 3v3 is a good call here. Items also helps this from being a slow metagame. I am expecting Smeargle + Espeon BP chains though, like I'll be surprised if that doesn't pop up at some point because we've got some scary BP chain tools here with Johto Pokemon.

Also English name is known to be Johto Classic and it's confirmed we'll get a Pokemon distribution. Please be HA beasts finally.

Pretty much this. I love 6v6, but 1 hour battles, I do not.

I suppose they could have just cut the battle timer to 45 minutes or something, but then you'd have a bevy of time stallers.

On cart, it's just way too much of a chore to play through.

 

[Vif-Argent]

Since it's BSS and not 6vs6, can we troll with Wobbuffet ?

 

[DraculKuroHemming]

I just thought about something. Will that infamous combo I heard about of SkarmBliss be viable?

Edit: Also, is Sheer Cold Suicune really gonna be viable with all Pokemon being Auto Leveled to 50?

 

[Hulavuta]

I just thought about something. Will that infamous combo I heard about of SkarmBliss be viable?

Edit: Also, is Sheer Cold Suicune really gonna be viable with all Pokemon being Auto Leveled to 50?

Hey man, welcome to Smogon!

The thing that made SkarmBliss so unbeatable in GSC was mostly the limiting mechanics at the time; moves were physical or special depending on the type, so it was hard to get good coverage to beat them that also hit them on their weaker defensive stat. There were also far fewer viable boosting moves, high powered attacks, or boosting items like Choice Band, Choice Specs, or Life Orb.

Things have obviously changed a lot since then, now we have extremely high powered moves and stuff like Swords Dance that can double your attack in one turn. Blissey isn't even the best anymore, Chansey is generally better due to Eviolite. Most physical attackers can muscle their way through Skarmory with weak Fire attacks, while also handling Chansey pretty well with their normal physical attacks so this core will probably still be somewhat viable but definitely nowhere near as good as it was in GSC. Tyranitar, Machamp, and Snorlax come to mind as a few Pokemon who can bust it. Taunt Gengar can also shut down Chansey and kill Skarmory. This one takes a little longer to win though.


Sheer Cold Suicune is definitely going to be viable! Since everything is at max level 50, you don't have to worry about it failing because things are higher level than you. In that one season of Battle Spot Singles where Pentagon rule was temporarily removed, Sheer Cold Suicune was a huge threat. It is a Pokemon that takes a long time to wear down unless you're boosted, and it has Rest and Sleep Talk so it can stay around for quite a while if you don't have a definite check to it. Incidentally, it also is a counter to SkarmBliss (or really SkarmChans) because you can kill Skarmory with Scald and Chansey with Sheer Cold!

 

[DraculKuroHemming]

Sheer Cold Suicune is definitely going to be viable! Since everything is at max level 50, you don't have to worry about it failing because things are higher level than you. In that one season of Battle Spot Singles where Pentagon rule was temporarily removed, Sheer Cold Suicune was a huge threat. It is a Pokemon that takes a long time to wear down unless you're boosted, and it has Rest and Sleep Talk so it can stay around for quite a while if you don't have a definite check to it. Incidentally, it also is a counter to SkarmBliss (or really SkarmChans) because you can kill Skarmory with Scald and Chansey with Sheer Cold!

Is that even with the such low Accuracy of Sheer Cold. I could imagine it being good if Suicune knew any lock-on moves. But to my knowledge, Suicune doesn't learn any which means Sheer Cold feels like its going to be a lucky-if-I-hit kind of move. I might not know everything about as I'm still getting into the competitive scene slowly.

 

[lucariomaster2]

Is that even with the such low Accuracy of Sheer Cold. I could imagine it being good if Suicune knew any lock-on moves. But to my knowledge, Suicune doesn't learn any which means Sheer Cold feels like its going to be a lucky-if-I-hit kind of move. I might not know everything about as I'm still getting into the competitive scene slowly.

The key is that this you only have to KO 3 opposing Pokemon to win, and the laws of probability dictate that even with 30% accuracy, if you sit there spamming Sheer Cold, you're bound to hit eventually.

Now, I'm not sure how well this would actually work, but here's a bit of theorymon for ways to counter the Big Bad Bulky Beasts (Suicune, Chansey, Suicune, Skarmory, Suicune, Snorlax, and Suicune).

Murkrow @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
Impish Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef (Physical Defense investment is more viable due to the large number of Physical threats in the metagame)
-Mean Look
-Perish Song
-Protect
-Foul Play / Taunt / Torment / Roost

That's right, Perish Trap. It requires a bit of prediction in order to hit the fatmon with Mean Look on the switch-in, and then a bit of luck to not get hit with Sheer Cold, but the trick here is that Suicune will want to come in on Murkrow to Sheer Cold it or set up Calm Mind, so you can trap it with Mean Look, and then Perish Song and stall with Protect. The last slot is a bit of a toss-up; Foul Play is Murkrow's best way of dealing damage, and ensures that you're not Taunt bait, while Taunt and Torment can be used to stallbreak even more. Roost is good for staying healthy, though I'm not sure how useful it would be in the more fast-paced 3v3.

This could potentially also work to phaze setup sweepers.

 

[Hulavuta]

Yeah, it does have a low chance but KO moves are still very viable in the 3v3 format. Like I said earlier, Suicune is quite bulky so it usually has a chance to fire off many Sheer Colds, and if it takes out even just one Pokemon it's pretty worth it.

 

[Lizerd]

Would a Hitmontop be of any use? It has terrible HP, but it can learn Sucker Punch. Maybe give it an Assault Vest and make it into a tank?

 

[Kong Harald]

Would a Hitmontop be of any use? It has terrible HP, but it can learn Sucker Punch. Maybe give it an Assault Vest and make it into a tank?

Probably not, especially when Machamp exists.

Speaking of fighting types, there are very few viable ones - Machamp, Heracross, and Hitmonlee is pretty much it. Good news for Snorlax and Chansey, amongst others.

 

[6tennis]

Hey everyone, this format is live on PS! That means you can start building teams and testing them against other players.

 

[WubbaLubba]

Hey everyone, this format is live on PS! That means you can start building teams and testing them against other players.

Thanks for the heads up! I just signed up for Smogon but have played the Battlespot tourneys for a while. I think most of the titans from the Kanto Classic will still be very viable and am looking at the gen 2 mons who will make a big impact (sheer cold Suicune is so annoying). I think a dark/fighting/psychic/ghost core is close to essential with so few viable dark and ghost types - I'm thinking Umbreon and a sashed Gengar to get by Alakazam and Espeon. See you all on Showdown.

 

[iStratos]

Hyped for this, but never really played in a competition before. Any good start guide or something? also how do you get the Sheer cold suicune?

 

[VenusaurOmega]

Even when it's true that in GSC and HGSS there were Kanto Pokémon along with the Johto ones, I think this competition should've been 152-248 only, since there are more overpowered users from Kanto than Johto and this wouldn't feel so different to the Kanto Classic. Then there's still last year's Battle of Hoenn which followed similar rules to this one, though Mega evolutions could be used if we count ORAS instead of RSE, but Hoenn originals were much more common.

Nevertheless, I will give it a try. If the Legendary Beasts are finally released with their Hidden Abilities, then the last Hidden Ability to be released would be Heatran's Flame Body. Sinnoh Classic battle competition coming soon, maybe?