Serious US Election Thread (read post #2014)

Status
Not open for further replies.
I knew the funnest part of this election would be the complete meltdown when Bernie's campaign crashes and burns. I didn't expect it to be this much fun, though.

He has won a victory in Indiana, though I'd say he's merely prolonging his campaign's death.

Make America Great Again.
Look, you can make ad-hominems about this shit but in general I just want what's best for the people.

Why support an actively racist, bigoted (sans, strangely, pro-transgender rights of all things) egomaniac that doesn't give a rat's ass about you? Someone who actively insults and belittles others, spreads politics of divisiveness and hatred? I like that Trump is anti-establishment (like I said, American politics are shit and need a complete overhaul) but do you not see that he is just pro-corporate as Hillary is? That his policies will not make life better for the average person? That xenophobia will spread like wildfire under a presidency run by his ideals?
 
Look, you can make ad-hominems about this shit but in general I just want what's best for the people.

Why support an actively racist, bigoted (sans, strangely, pro-transgender rights of all things) egomaniac that doesn't give a rat's ass about you? Someone who actively insults and belittles others, spreads politics of divisiveness and hatred? I like that Trump is anti-establishment (like I said, American politics are shit and need a complete overhaul) but do you not see that he is just pro-corporate as Hillary is? That his policies will not make life better for the average person? That xenophobia will spread like wildfire under his ideals?
You know, I thought of some ways of replying to this, and even posted them, but ultimately only one answer is sufficient.

If you want to know why I support Donald Trump, it's because he's going to Make America Great Again.
 
Last edited:
As someone who now has a vested interest in American politics because my girlfriend is American, America is a shithole that is going to the dogs. Nothing will make it great. Any chance of redemption lays solely with Bernie Sanders and a system that doesn't fuck over millions of people. But whoops, the ignorant masses are fucking asleep and/or just right-wing racists who only give a flying fuck about themselves. I follow politics in quite a few countries and nothing has ever made me as infuriated or frustrated as American politics.

(I guess if you/others are saying this tongue in cheek I'll have egg on my face but at the same time I'm just at my limit and had to vent. At the same time I want to see if there's any possibility for actual change from the system you guys have.)
You think that's bad, try having to live among them! No wonder conspiracy theorists are usually cranky, because the masses are like ignorant sheep, thinking that Hillary is actually fighting for them! Uh, I think she is actually going to do more for the banks, since 4 of them payed her a small fortune in campaign contributions, and that's just scratching the surface! And who knows who else has contributed briberies!

I can't believe that people would rather have a person who, upon close examination, comes off as shady, over a guy who at least gives a shit about the many over the few! I get it, they want Bill back in the White House, but if the masses think they will prosper again under her administration, I think they are fooling themselves! And we need a President who will do something about climate change, while it's not too late (or while we can stem to worst of it anyways). Trump not only isn't that President, but as many have said, he is a bigoted blowhard who would better serve as a standup comedian!

I remain convinced that we'd be better off if we voted for a third party candidate over Hillary or Trump.

This would all actually be hilarious if it weren't so damned pathetic. Yoshi King is right: America is going to the dogs, and too many people are ignorant thanks to our damned corporate media to realize it!
 
Walls aren't racist.
Trump's policies regarding illegal immigrants are just double-speak. It's an effective strategy (see paragraph 6) as times change to continue prejudiced attitudes and policies.

The illegal immigration crusade targets Hispanics, not Europeans (i.e., whites) or Africans or Asians. It's similar to Islamophobia--a white European who dressed in jeans and a shirt, who is Muslim, isn't the focus--no, it's dark-skinned people in robes, head scarfs, or turbans with funny sounding names.

Trump supporters are free to lie to themselves, but it does no one any favors. For being against political correctness, obfuscation of beliefs is sure a thing among that camp.
 
Say it with me Smogon; make America great again!
Make America Great Again.

I'm a muslim and I support Trump. I am not racist but I don't want people from third world hellholes who can cause a lot of security problems for our country because we don't even know who they are. I also am against getting so involved in the Middle East which helped with these hellholes, just like Trump. Also our immigration system is just screwed in general.
 
Last edited:
...but I don't want people from third world hellholes who can cause a lot of security problems for our country because we don't even know who they are...
Huh? I don't understand where this misconception comes from. This is not true. Please read up on the American asylum/refugee process. Those seeking refugee/asylum status in the US undergo intense scrutiny. If a terrorist wants to enter the US, the refugee/asylum program is not a viable path.
 
Huh? I don't understand where this misconception comes from. This is not true. Please read up on the American asylum/refugee process. Those seeking refugee/asylum status in the US undergo intense scrutiny. If a terrorist wants to enter the US, the refugee/asylum program is not a viable path.
We're currently at conflict with Syria and don't have any data on them, essentially making the screening process useless. The FBI even admits we can't properly vet them, but I would say we can not back Syrian rebels and put safe zones, (or have private organizations go to Syrian and help) while Russia, Iran, and the Syrian Army (we should remove the Syrian sanctions too) takes ISIS. The threat is ISIS, not Assad. It brings up some stuff I never mentioned, but I liked this video and it kind of explains why I have this viewpoint, it's from a Syrian.
 

apt-get

it's not over 'til it's over
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Trump's policies regarding illegal immigrants are just double-speak. It's an effective strategy (see paragraph 6) as times change to continue prejudiced attitudes and policies.

The illegal immigration crusade targets Hispanics, not Europeans (i.e., whites) or Africans or Asians. It's similar to Islamophobia--a white European who dressed in jeans and a shirt, who is Muslim, isn't the focus--no, it's dark-skinned people in robes, head scarfs, or turbans with funny sounding names.

Trump supporters are free to lie to themselves, but it does no one any favors. For being against political correctness, obfuscation of beliefs is sure a thing among that camp.
Honestly if an African managed to illegally immigrate to America through the Atlantic Ocean I'd put him on the Olympics team immediately
 
We're currently at conflict with Syria and don't have any data on them, essentially making the screening process useless. The FBI even admits we can't properly vet them, but I would say we can not back Syrian rebels and put safe zones, (or have private organizations go to Syrian and help) while Russia, Iran, and the Syrian Army (we should remove the Syrian sanctions too) takes ISIS. The threat is ISIS, not Assad. It brings up some stuff I never mentioned, but I liked this video and it kind of explains why I have this viewpoint, it's from a Syrian.
You are focusing on an aspect of the immigration process only relevant for a small portion refugees. The FBI being unable to properly screen a small subset of potential refugees (i.e., some number of Syrians) does not refute the rigor of the refugee/asylum process in the US and the trustworthiness of those who successfully complete it. Yet Trump wants to prevent all Muslim immigration to the US (source); he is not focusing on difficult regions.

As it stands, Syrian refugees account for a minuscule portion of those admitted to the US from the region (East/South Asia, such as Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, etc); 14% (about 1,700 out of 12,000) so far in 2016 and 6% (1,700 out of 25,000) in 2015 (source). Furthermore, I don't see and can't find any evidence of improperly screened refugees entering this country, or laxer requirements for Syrian refugees due to the conflict.

Thus, the belief--"Immigrants aren't screened properly"--is incorrect. Policies built on this belief (such as Trump's anti-Muslim immigrant policy) are unsupported as a result. But that's not unusual for Trump; most of his policies are unsupported, or simply outright wrong.

tehy: See the progression of replies (posts #467-#470). The uncertainty of Syrian refugees was simply moving the goalpost.
 
Last edited:

tehy

Banned deucer.
good resource! Let's take it step by step:

step 1: collect identifying documents, biological data

OK, good, we'll collect a ton of data. What will actually be done with this data...? guess we'll see

step 2: collect this data into a file

OK, shit's heating up now. Step 3 is about to be lit, i tell you

step 3: security screening!

oh shit nigga! time to ask the people in the know, like the...uh...FBI, and...State Department, and...Homeland Security and even Counterterrorism centers? Yeah, I'm sure they know all kinds of personal details from random people living in Syria! Shit, I thought you were going to actually ask Syrians this shit

but there's the rub: that's how a real security screening or background check would work, unfortunately given that the country is currently experiencing a civil war doing so is less than impossible. In fact, even if some of these guys were actual criminals, given Syria's current views towards us, they probably aren't going to tell us about it. So we're just going to go ahead and hope that these guys have been internationally active in some fashion. Here's a question for you, Verbatim: How many members of, say, the Bloods or Crips are known to the FBI? And yet they are probably capable of terrible crimes, it's just that they haven't done anything outside of their neighborhood. If you were to transport in refugees from LA, sure, some of them would be just like me (literally cause I live here in case that wasn't clear). But I would understand if it was felt that I couldn't be vetted well enough. Especially if you then let me live in a refugee camp, which is the case currently.

broadly speaking i'm sure that really bad terrorists have a fair chance of being weeded out at this stage (assuming they're also not that smart though), but the rank and file probably haven't done anything to get noticed. additionally, someone who thinks terrorism is morally justified but hasn't done any himself has about a 0% chance of being caught this way.

step 4: interviews

could be good, could be really easy to pass. I hold out hope but...

steps 5 onwards: not worth discussing.

let me use a simple Pokemon metaphor to explain this

imagine I told you I had to build a team for next week's OST, and it had to win obviously. But it's OK, i have recruited the best teambuilders in the game, like McMeghan, Hugo's smogon ghost, young danklord CTC, some other people who are hot on the tournaments scene, et cetera. Confidence level: high!

Until of course I let slip that I have placed on myself a limitation: I can only use PU or below Pokemon on this team.

But it's OK! remember, hot teambuilders! And theoretically, why can't PU pokemon beat OU ones if the team has enough synergy and purpose and blah blah blah

well no offense to PU but in stark reality that ain't happenin. it sounds OK to people who only vaguely follow these things, but to people who are actually involved with this shit (like a former head of the FBI) it's a total nonstarter.



by the way your infographic sort of misses the point that we never brought in refugees from a place in current civil war which we caused where we didn't have bcoots on the ground in significant number. like in the Iraqi war our soldiers could just go talk to the villagers and find out a lot of information which isn't really the case currently.

also trump been said he's not going to exclude citizens, on account of that's several different types of illegal all at once...

veiva, we talkin bout syrian refugees right now. they're who we can't vet. not 'all refugees ever'
 
You are focusing on a minor aspect of the immigration process for refugees. The FBI being unable to properly screen a small subset of potential refugees (i.e., some number of Syrians) does not refute the rigor of the refugee/asylum process in the US and the trustworthiness of those who successfully complete it. Yet Trump wants to prevent all Muslim immigration to the US (source); he is not focusing on difficult regions.

As it stands, Syrian refugees account for a minuscule portion of those admitted to the US from the region (East/South Asia, such as Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, etc); 14% (about 1,700 out of 12,000) so far in 2016 and 6% (1,700 out of 25,000) in 2015 (source). Furthermore, I don't see and can't find any evidence of improperly screened refugees entering this country, or laxer requirements for Syrian refugees due to the conflict.

Thus, the belief--"Immigrants aren't screened properly"--is incorrect. Policies built on this belief (such as Trump's anti-Muslim immigrant policy) are unsupported as a result.
Well other people can defend the blanket ban I know he said there will be exceptions so I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up doing what Rand Paul (whom I previously supported) wanted to do which is ban migration from specific countries until things get fixed. I personally think it's a lot better than pure open borders for now.

The Syrian numbers are probably skewed up too, remember that a lot of these Syrian refugees aren't even Syrian, as stated in the video (or did I send the wrong video) many people that are migrating are clearly from North Africa, Iraq and others. I know Obama wants to give around 10,000 (larger numbers) but I believe Republicans made it lower, but yeah it is low as it currently stands but like Saudi immigrants (Saudi Arabia is practically the source of wahabbism [or what you'd call radical Islam] and 8 out of the 14 hijackers at 9/11 were Saudi immigrants) there are people in places like Iraq included in the Syrian refugees who can be great source of terror because Iraq is now a breeding ground to terrorists. (Primarily due to the Iraq war.)

Good discussion.
 

apt-get

it's not over 'til it's over
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
The ban on Muslim Immigration applies only to NEW immigrants. It would have absolutely no effect on current citizens of the United States. (http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-muslim-ban-legality-20151214-story.html)

In addition, your link doesn't talk about leaving the country at all.
 
Last edited:
The Syrian numbers are probably skewed up too, remember that a lot of these Syrian refugees aren't even Syrian...
What do you mean? Are you saying Syrian refugees could be classified under other nationalities? The process is based on where you are seeking refugee/asylum from. E.g., "Syrian" refugees would be facing persecution in Syria. A refugee can't claim they're from a different country and expect that to work; it would fail the screening process. Also, I fear this is treading the line of on-topic/off-topic so I'm going to stop here.

...

Regarding the election, the presidential choices are unfavorable for me come November if Sanders loses (in North Carolina). Sander's success in Indiana brings some hope. I do not believe there's any third-party options (namely Green Party) I would choose in such as a case, either. At least I'll be able to vote against Richard Burr, Pat McCrory, and other terrible politicians in the group. It's a shame...
 

verbatim

[PLACEHOLDER]
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
veiva, we talkin bout syrian refugees right now. they're who we can't vet. not 'all refugees ever'
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/19/syrian-refugees-in-america-fact-from-fiction-congress

The ban on Jewish Immigration applies only to NEW immigrants. It would have absolutely no effect on current citizens of the United States. (http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-muslim-ban-legality-20151214-story.html)

In addition, your link doesn't talk about leaving the country at all.
As I understand it he proposed an exception for Muslim soldiers provided they return to the US for supervision.

But all that aside, banning immigration based on Religion is literally fascism, any anyone that argues that their primary concern is security is either lying or has been lied to.
 
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/19/syrian-refugees-in-america-fact-from-fiction-congress



As I understand it he proposed an exception for Muslim soldiers provided they return to the US for supervision.

But all that aside, banning immigration based on Religion is literally fascism, any anyone that argues that their primary concern is security is either lying or has been lied to.
If Jewish immigrants in third world shit lands are blowing people up and the only thing they have in common is their religion it could very well be a security issue. Not saying it's the most practical idea but saying he's a fascist and comparing this to the holocaust is freaking over the top.
 

tehy

Banned deucer.
given that much of Iraq has now fallen into ISIS's hands, I understand where that's coming from
As I understand it he proposed an exception for Muslim soldiers provided they return to the US for supervision.
and as I understand it he went back on the citizenship thing on account of of course he did you can't actually do that legally so even if he were to try (and he did take it back) he would just fail hilariously

But all that aside, banning immigration based on Religion is literally fascism, any anyone that argues that their primary concern is security is either lying or has been lied to.
'hey there, I have a set of ideas which I believe in'
'hm, those ideas seem contrary to the type of society i'm trying to build, they also seem to cause violence and death a lot. i'd rather not let you in'

-fascism 101
 

verbatim

[PLACEHOLDER]
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
If Jewish immigrants in third world shit lands are blowing people up and the only thing they have in common is their religion it could very well be a security issue. Not saying it's the most practical idea but saying he's a fascist and comparing this to the holocaust is freaking over the top.
but they were threatening the purity of the American race, calling it a holocaust when they were only interested in protecting our national security is way over the top!

'hm, those ideas seem contrary to the type of society i'm trying to build'
-fascism 101
are you referring to Islam in general?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 2)

Top