Smogon Usage-Based Tier Update: May 2016

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This is the entire DUU banlist Antar The Immortal

Aegislash, Amoonguss, Azumarill, Bisharp, Breloom, Camerupt-Mega, Charizard-Mega-Y, Chandelure, Conkeldurr, Cresselia, Diancie-Mega, Dragonite, Ferrothorn, Garchomp, Gardevoir-Mega, Gengar, Greninja, Gyarados, Heatran, Hoopa-Unbound, Hydreigon, Jirachi, Kangaskhan-Mega, Keldeo, Kyurem-Black, Landorus, Landorus-Therian, Latios, Ludicolo, Mawile-Mega, Milotic, Politoed, Porygon-2, Rotom-Wash, Scizor, Scrafty, Suicune, Sylveon, Talonflame, Terrakion, Thundurus, Togekiss, Tyranitar, Ubers, Venusaur, Venusaur-Mega, Volcanion, Weavile, Whimsicott, Zapdos
 

pancake

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ChrystalFalchion said:
I agree with you on Muk and to a lesser extent Pelliper, but Torterra's actually a solid mon in NU especially with Aggron joining the tier. Its Rock Polish set is faster than Aggron and Rhydon, and thanks to STAB Wood Hammer can get through Pokémon like Poliwrath, Gastrodon and Claydol, which Aggron and Rhydon struggle with. Its Stealth Rock set isn't very good I'll admit, but Torterra is still a good mon to use in NU.
I did not say this because I thought these Pokemon are bad in NU. I knew Muk was not ideal in NU, but I don't play NU so I was not sure about the other two. This was totally out of my own self-interest as a PU player XD
 
What, the heck, is going on with these usage tiers, guys? Amoonguss and Quagsire are now OU? How do these two Pokemon become so good in this metagame? I just can't see it, unless it's stall.

On the topic of stall, if that's the case, then we have screwed up in banning Hoopa-Unbound, it would seem.
 

Punchshroom

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What, the heck, is going on with these usage tiers, guys? Amoonguss and Quagsire are now OU? How do these two Pokemon become so good in this metagame? I just can't see it, unless it's stall.

On the topic of stall, if that's the case, then we have screwed up in banning Hoopa-Unbound, it would seem.
Considering these mons didn't manage to get enough OU usage prior to Hoopa-U's introduction in the first place, I'd like to believe this is just a product of people simply trying to attempt stall again now that it isn't put at an extreme disadvantage from just one mon alone.

Amoonguss has had fairly frequent usage even when Hoopa-Unbound was present in OU, since it found its place not only on just stall teams; Amoonguss's usage hovered around 3.0% usage consistently over the past 4 months. Quagsire meanwhile is largely a byproduct of ABR stall, whose team still performed well even when Hoopa-U was present, although Hoopa-U's departure could've been the catalyst towards Quag's rise to OU since the team is now more "accessible" to / easily used by other players.

Hard to say that Hoopa-U's departure is solely what caused these mons to rise, especially in the case of Amoonguss.
 

Merritt

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Head TD
Antar Here's the Pokemon that are banned from LC UU that would have otherwise moved: Houndour, Pancham, Skrelp.

So in other words only Cranidos actually dropped :/
 
Amoonguss and Quagsire are now OU? How do these two Pokemon become so good in this metagame?
Maybe because these two Pokémon ARE good in the metagame, if not better after the Hoopa-U ban.
Quag is the best Unaware user with a good way to recover health (since Unaware Clef has only acces to Wish Protect) access to Scald, Curse and a great Ground/Water typing, while Amoonguss is a Bulky Grass/Poison type with access to Spore, Regenerator, and checks a good amount of the current metagame.

Also

On the topic of stall, if that's the case, then we have screwed up in banning Hoopa-Unbound, it would seem.
Oh no!! A playstyle is getting played enough so two of the Pokémon that uses have over 3% usage!!! How awful!! That's definitely a reason to bring back the broken mon... Since Stall is such a problem, lets bring back Mega Gengar while we are at it!!
 
Maybe because these two Pokémon ARE good in the metagame, if not better after the Hoopa-U ban.
Quag is the best Unaware user with a good way to recover health (since Unaware Clef has only acces to Wish Protect) access to Scald, Curse and a great Ground/Water typing, while Amoonguss is a Bulky Grass/Poison type with access to Spore, Regenerator, and checks a good amount of the current metagame.

Also



Oh no!! A playstyle is getting played enough so two of the Pokémon that uses have over 3% usage!!! How awful!! That's definitely a reason to bring back the broken mon... Since Stall is such a problem, lets bring back Mega Gengar while we are at it!!
Mega Gengar also has a broken ability, what about bringing him back with the ability banned. ablitityless gengar sounds awful.

edit:awful enough for ubers but it can come to OU again.
 
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Not liking this new usage based tier selection, UU is more like OU now, BORING.

Using Usage Based Tier Selection is A STUPID WAY TO BALANCE THE TIERS. Tiers mean NOTHING right now, the entire meaning of the word has changed as long as they are selected this way, if its like this, there might as well be NO TIERS its so unbalanced, the people that are happy to use their favourite pokemon might not care what system you use but i refuse to play in a linear way simply because the majority of people have made it that way.

Doesn't matter what i think though, fanboys will love the game regardless and make you think its working, but i guarantee you this system is not as good as the last one and i urge you to change back ASAP.
 

Mowtom

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Not liking this new usage based tier selection, UU is more like OU now, BORING.

Using Usage Based Tier Selection is A STUPID WAY TO BALANCE THE TIERS. Tiers mean NOTHING right now, the entire meaning of the word has changed as long as they are selected this way, if its like this, there might as well be NO TIERS its so unbalanced, the people that are happy to use their favourite pokemon might not care what system you use but i refuse to play in a linear way simply because the majority of people have made it that way.

Doesn't matter what i think though, fanboys will love the game regardless and make you think its working, but i guarantee you this system is not as good as the last one and i urge you to change back ASAP.
Not sure if trolling or being genuinely unintelligible...
 
Alright, so I know I'm late but I just wanna talk about some of the drops after play testing with some of them for a bit.

Celebi moved from OU to UU- This Pokemon fits perfectly in UU imo. It has it's fair share of counters such as Mega Absol, Mega Aerodactyl,etc. but it also can check a lot of things such as Mega Agrron(if carrying Earth Power), Alakazam,Chesnaught,Mega Blastoise(if Spdef set). It's also a fantastic passer and it can help a lot of mons that needed more power but couldn't get it. For example I used an SD BP set to Mega Agrron Rock Polish'd then killed stuff. I feel like Celebi will stay in UU for a while.

Honchkrow moved from UU to RU- This drop suprised me a lot. Thankfully it got quickbanned to BL2. Honestly if this thing stayed it would've been meta defining. Heat Wave for Mega Steelix(2HKO's standard spread) and Sucker Punch+BB for killing stuff the only thing that could really handle this thing is Virizion since with Justified it can take a Sucker Punch. Don't really have much to say since it was quickbanned.

Gastrodon moved from RU to NU- Pretty sure everyone saw this coming. This thing, while it can handle a decent number of things, the amount of Grass types in RU just demolish it. It can be a good wall, but it's outclassed due to it's pitiful defense stat. More than half the things in RU can 2hko Gastrodon with ease. In NU I think it'll find it's use. Being able to switch in to the newly brought downAggron,Archeops,Barbaracle,Golurk,Kabutops,Primeape,and some other mons. I think it'll find it's home in NU.

Aggron moved from RU to NU- 2 words- HEAD SMASH. Where do I start? This thing brings so much raw power into NU. Almost NOTHING can switch into thing. Ferroseed? Nah, Aggron will just Fire Punch you. It can even sweep teams with the Rock Polish set. While a couple thing can counter it like Gastrodon and Hitmonchan, I can defenintly see it being a really strong Pokemon in the tier.

Conkeldurr moved from OU to UU- OH THANK GOD IT FINALLY DROPPED. Conkeldurr has been waiting to drop into UU for FORVEVER, and it finally happened. This thing brings so much power into UU. It's also pretty versatile. It can be SF LO with Poison Jab to kill fairies. It can run Mach Punch so Pokemon like Mega Absol are dead. It's also decently bulky so it can take hits from Gligar,Nidoking/Nidoqueen, and other attackers. Almost every Dark types/Normal type are rendered useless with this thing on the the field. I don't see it staying in UU for long imo.

Alakazam-Mega moved from OU to UU (BL)- Yeah this was to be expected. Ever since Hoopa-U was banned(:[) stall started to get better, and well Mega Zam cannot handle stall at all. Don't really have much to say other than it would have been a power house in UU had it not been quickbanned due to it being banned from UU before.

Altaria-Mega moved from OU to UU (BL)-I can see why this thing would've dropped but I'm still upset at it. This thing is such a terrifying DD sweeper it's scary. Same thing with Mega Zam though, it just cannot beat stall very well. Also the same thing with Mega Zam, it was already banned from UU so it's in BL so I don't have much to say about this thing.

Quagsire moved from NU to OU- Uhhhhh, do you want Malamar to be broken? With Quag gone little to nothing can stop Malamar. Also something to note is Quagsire went straight from NU to OU lmao. Those are the reprecussions when you ban the best wallbreaker OU ever had(RIP HOOPA-U). This just goes to show you how many people use stall nowadays.

Smeargle moved from RU to NU- Don't really know why this didn't drop sooner. Terrible speed and bulk. It's only real nice is Spore+Hazards but even that it's bad at b/c of sleep clause. Don't really know why it stayed in RU for so long. Don't have much to say about it either lol.

Mawile moved from NU to PU- This was also to be expected. Steelix greatly outclasses it. Don't really play PU all that much so can't really theory mon about it's viability in PU but I can't really see it rising to NU again.

Sylveon moved from OU to UU- Yes,yes,and yes. Conk AND Sylveon both dropped in one go? Wow, now all we need is Ambipom to drop to NU and the trio will all have dropped. Alright with this thing in UU I wonder how long it'll take Florges to drop to RU then Aromatisse to drop to NU lol. This thing is the best fairy type in the tier right now. With great bulk giving it the ability to wall Hydreigon,Mega Sceptile,Kingdra,and a bunch of other special attackers. It also have a huge special attack stat allowing to hit extremly hard(also it outspeeds a max speed jolly conk at max speed and can kill it with HV). I think that UU is perfect for Sylveon.

Amoonguss moved from RU to OU- Same thing with Quagsire, just goes to show you how much stall is being used rn. Also with Amoonguss gone from RU defensive Venu is actually good to help stop Virizion from shredding stuff up.

Zapdos moved from UU to OU- Can't wait to see how long this drops back to UU. It's greatly outclassed in every regard. As an offensive electric type it's outclassed by Thundy, as a defensive Electric types it's outclassed by Rotom-W, and as a Defogger it's outclassed by literally every other defogger in the tier.
 
Not liking this new usage based tier selection, UU is more like OU now, BORING.

Using Usage Based Tier Selection is A STUPID WAY TO BALANCE THE TIERS. Tiers mean NOTHING right now, the entire meaning of the word has changed as long as they are selected this way, if its like this, there might as well be NO TIERS its so unbalanced, the people that are happy to use their favourite pokemon might not care what system you use but i refuse to play in a linear way simply because the majority of people have made it that way.

Doesn't matter what i think though, fanboys will love the game regardless and make you think its working, but i guarantee you this system is not as good as the last one and i urge you to change back ASAP.
Did this dude just make an account to bash our system, and only that?
 
Alright, so I know I'm late but I just wanna talk about some of the drops after play testing with some of them for a bit.

Celebi moved from OU to UU- This Pokemon fits perfectly in UU imo. It has it's fair share of counters such as Mega Absol, Mega Aerodactyl,etc. but it also can check a lot of things such as Mega Agrron(if carrying Earth Power), Alakazam,Chesnaught,Mega Blastoise(if Spdef set). It's also a fantastic passer and it can help a lot of mons that needed more power but couldn't get it. For example I used an SD BP set to Mega Agrron Rock Polish'd then killed stuff. I feel like Celebi will stay in UU for a while.

Honchkrow moved from UU to RU- This drop suprised me a lot. Thankfully it got quickbanned to BL2. Honestly if this thing stayed it would've been meta defining. Heat Wave for Mega Steelix(2HKO's standard spread) and Sucker Punch+BB for killing stuff the only thing that could really handle this thing is Virizion since with Justified it can take a Sucker Punch. Don't really have much to say since it was quickbanned.

Gastrodon moved from RU to NU- Pretty sure everyone saw this coming. This thing, while it can handle a decent number of things, the amount of Grass types in RU just demolish it. It can be a good wall, but it's outclassed due to it's pitiful defense stat. More than half the things in RU can 2hko Gastrodon with ease. In NU I think it'll find it's use. Being able to switch in to the newly brought downAggron,Archeops,Barbaracle,Golurk,Kabutops,Primeape,and some other mons. I think it'll find it's home in NU.

Aggron moved from RU to NU- 2 words- HEAD SMASH. Where do I start? This thing brings so much raw power into NU. Almost NOTHING can switch into thing. Ferroseed? Nah, Aggron will just Fire Punch you. It can even sweep teams with the Rock Polish set. While a couple thing can counter it like Gastrodon and Hitmonchan, I can defenintly see it being a really strong Pokemon in the tier.

Conkeldurr moved from OU to UU- OH THANK GOD IT FINALLY DROPPED. Conkeldurr has been waiting to drop into UU for FORVEVER, and it finally happened. This thing brings so much power into UU. It's also pretty versatile. It can be SF LO with Poison Jab to kill fairies. It can run Mach Punch so Pokemon like Mega Absol are dead. It's also decently bulky so it can take hits from Gligar,Nidoking/Nidoqueen, and other attackers. Almost every Dark types/Normal type are rendered useless with this thing on the the field. I don't see it staying in UU for long imo.

Alakazam-Mega moved from OU to UU (BL)- Yeah this was to be expected. Ever since Hoopa-U was banned(:[) stall started to get better, and well Mega Zam cannot handle stall at all. Don't really have much to say other than it would have been a power house in UU had it not been quickbanned due to it being banned from UU before.

Altaria-Mega moved from OU to UU (BL)-I can see why this thing would've dropped but I'm still upset at it. This thing is such a terrifying DD sweeper it's scary. Same thing with Mega Zam though, it just cannot beat stall very well. Also the same thing with Mega Zam, it was already banned from UU so it's in BL so I don't have much to say about this thing.

Quagsire moved from NU to OU- Uhhhhh, do you want Malamar to be broken? With Quag gone little to nothing can stop Malamar. Also something to note is Quagsire went straight from NU to OU lmao. Those are the reprecussions when you ban the best wallbreaker OU ever had(RIP HOOPA-U). This just goes to show you how many people use stall nowadays.

Smeargle moved from RU to NU- Don't really know why this didn't drop sooner. Terrible speed and bulk. It's only real nice is Spore+Hazards but even that it's bad at b/c of sleep clause. Don't really know why it stayed in RU for so long. Don't have much to say about it either lol.

Mawile moved from NU to PU- This was also to be expected. Steelix greatly outclasses it. Don't really play PU all that much so can't really theory mon about it's viability in PU but I can't really see it rising to NU again.

Sylveon moved from OU to UU- Yes,yes,and yes. Conk AND Sylveon both dropped in one go? Wow, now all we need is Ambipom to drop to NU and the trio will all have dropped. Alright with this thing in UU I wonder how long it'll take Florges to drop to RU then Aromatisse to drop to NU lol. This thing is the best fairy type in the tier right now. With great bulk giving it the ability to wall Hydreigon,Mega Sceptile,Kingdra,and a bunch of other special attackers. It also have a huge special attack stat allowing to hit extremly hard(also it outspeeds a max speed jolly conk at max speed and can kill it with HV). I think that UU is perfect for Sylveon.

Amoonguss moved from RU to OU- Same thing with Quagsire, just goes to show you how much stall is being used rn. Also with Amoonguss gone from RU defensive Venu is actually good to help stop Virizion from shredding stuff up.

Zapdos moved from UU to OU- Can't wait to see how long this drops back to UU. It's greatly outclassed in every regard. As an offensive electric type it's outclassed by Thundy, as a defensive Electric types it's outclassed by Rotom-W, and as a Defogger it's outclassed by literally every other defogger in the tier.
I don't see Ambipom dropping to NU in this generation ever considering it has over a 6% usage now in RU and I don't think Florges or Aromatisse will drop. They're perfectly fine in the tiers they're in.
 
I don't see Ambipom dropping to NU in this generation ever considering it has over a 6% usage now in RU and I don't think Florges or Aromatisse will drop. They're perfectly fine in the tiers they're in.
I know Ambipom won't drop but I can dream!

The reason I said that Florges and Aromatisse will drop is because it is completely outclassed by Sylveon and Aromatisse is outclassed by Florges(if Florges does drop).
 
NU stop using Sandslash
PU with Sandslash could be lovely! Slash can Threaten Crustle, Golem and even Roselia (Rose really dislikes STAB neutral EQs and Knock Off), which will make hazards harder to keep! Also SD Slash can be a really nice Wallbreaker!

The only sad part of this is... THAT IS NOT GONNA HAPPEN... T_T
 
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