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Big First Official Smogon Mafia Game: Metagame Mafia - Game Over - Anything Goes Wins!
- Thread starter UncleSam
- Start date
Wayan Vistar
formerly Flyhn
Unvote
My bad on that one, even though there's so many players, i'm still paranoid about mling a possibile good role for us :/
Then again with this many players, it's not like any one role is THAT important.
However, I'll only vote macle once someone can fully explain to me what's been happening to get this bw started, because i'm kinda lost here honestly, and following blindly isn't exactly the best idea. I know he's claimed to be a sleeper, but honestly that's it. Not sure if I can believe a town one or not, but in a game this big who knows
My bad on that one, even though there's so many players, i'm still paranoid about mling a possibile good role for us :/
Then again with this many players, it's not like any one role is THAT important.
However, I'll only vote macle once someone can fully explain to me what's been happening to get this bw started, because i'm kinda lost here honestly, and following blindly isn't exactly the best idea. I know he's claimed to be a sleeper, but honestly that's it. Not sure if I can believe a town one or not, but in a game this big who knows
there's a reply button in the bottom right of the post
i figured it was something like that, i figured i should ask tho!
After asking bluegummybear to claim even just poke NAME in PM, it took him 30 seconds to say ANYTHING AT ALL despite being actively involved in the PM Conversation, and 3 minutes to "decide" whether or not to claim, aka thinking of fakeclaim, to be honest. As a result, I also scumread bgb :V
Why should anyone be claiming anything to you?
If you guys are going to claim to somebody claim to yeti not some random who hasn't posted anything about their role jesus christ.
I'm sure you are all aware that this is an OC (Outside Contact) game. This means you can PM people and talk outside the thread.
However, I'm sure some of you have played an NOC game (No Outside Contact). This means you can't do that.
I play a lot of NOC and I've already composed plenty of posts about how my playstyle is tailored to NOC. In NOC, you use pressure on other players to your advantage. If someone is struggling to claim when asked, you continue to put pressure on them.
APPARENTLY, it's very different in OC, hence the reactions. I have never played OC before, and it's amazing the difference between the two types of games based on this one factor. My apologies about my post being controversial, but this is my instinct working here.
However, I'm sure some of you have played an NOC game (No Outside Contact). This means you can't do that.
I play a lot of NOC and I've already composed plenty of posts about how my playstyle is tailored to NOC. In NOC, you use pressure on other players to your advantage. If someone is struggling to claim when asked, you continue to put pressure on them.
APPARENTLY, it's very different in OC, hence the reactions. I have never played OC before, and it's amazing the difference between the two types of games based on this one factor. My apologies about my post being controversial, but this is my instinct working here.
Never apologize while on the path of a righteous quest to vanquish scum
Do not cycle one rand Lynch just because the mafia has kills the same day. Percentages say we are far more likely to hit a villager than a mafian while gaining absolutely no information. All you are doing is giving the mafia a free extra kill (on average).
If there is a target that makes sense with actual reasoning, there is an argument for it. But personally, I do not believe there is sufficient evidence to warrant a lynch today. If that changes I will reevaluate.
If there is a target that makes sense with actual reasoning, there is an argument for it. But personally, I do not believe there is sufficient evidence to warrant a lynch today. If that changes I will reevaluate.
The amount of impact an early mafia lynch has on village chances of winning is potentially very high in accelerating how quickly we can eliminate kills.
The amount of impact an early village lynch has on village chances of winning is moderate to low in simply removing one kill that the mafia would otherwise have to perform to reach majority.
The amount of likelihood we are lynching a villager vs a mafia ir hard to say and is a judgment call. I think it's more likely macle is mafia than town. But even if I thought the odds of macle being mafia were only around 30-40%, I'd still want to lynch him on c1 because it provides the best chance of a village win: one where we win without significant negotiating with mafia factions. I still feel macle would be in "Russell Wilson is a shit QB mode" by now if he didn't have teammates pushing him to do stuff. The transition between those two phases was really fast.
There's also the issue that his role is a. powerful, b. controllable via redirectors, and c. largely irrelevant in early game scenarios as silence is concerned. Having extra votes in early game doesn't matter because mafia won't be exposing themselves that early by trying to win the lynch. So having what is functionally a village silence isn't all that impactful if it's known about, and potentially game losing if the mafia has a redirector that can guarantee extra or earlier silences/hooks.
I think this role does more harm than good to the village and think it should be lynched.
The amount of impact an early village lynch has on village chances of winning is moderate to low in simply removing one kill that the mafia would otherwise have to perform to reach majority.
The amount of likelihood we are lynching a villager vs a mafia ir hard to say and is a judgment call. I think it's more likely macle is mafia than town. But even if I thought the odds of macle being mafia were only around 30-40%, I'd still want to lynch him on c1 because it provides the best chance of a village win: one where we win without significant negotiating with mafia factions. I still feel macle would be in "Russell Wilson is a shit QB mode" by now if he didn't have teammates pushing him to do stuff. The transition between those two phases was really fast.
There's also the issue that his role is a. powerful, b. controllable via redirectors, and c. largely irrelevant in early game scenarios as silence is concerned. Having extra votes in early game doesn't matter because mafia won't be exposing themselves that early by trying to win the lynch. So having what is functionally a village silence isn't all that impactful if it's known about, and potentially game losing if the mafia has a redirector that can guarantee extra or earlier silences/hooks.
I think this role does more harm than good to the village and think it should be lynched.
reminder to be cautious about what information you reveal in public! even if you don't consider your role very good, the mafia knowing what your role is, or that it's not good or an info role, lets them try to track down 'good' village roles that much easier.
pub softclaiming should be done at your own risk and is not particularly something i recommend.
however i understand those familiar with NOC may feel differently about revealing information in public. smogon OC is much more about withholding info from the public eye, for the better or worse of the village at times, and keeping the informed mafia in the dark about the village as best we can. of course you should play however you choose. just remember you can't always trust your friends to be on your team!
pub softclaiming should be done at your own risk and is not particularly something i recommend.
however i understand those familiar with NOC may feel differently about revealing information in public. smogon OC is much more about withholding info from the public eye, for the better or worse of the village at times, and keeping the informed mafia in the dark about the village as best we can. of course you should play however you choose. just remember you can't always trust your friends to be on your team!
unvote
Giving my two cents. First, I'm going to start off by apologizing: that post above mine? Yeah, I kinda slipped up. For those of you that do know my role now...well, I'll leave it up to you to decide what your own course of action is.
Secondly, let's talk about lynching. Here are our options:
↑
again the four options are:
no lynch
lynch macle under the assumption he is breloom (ou sleeper) or darkrai (ubers sleeper)
pick a new rand (and most likely get another claim of a 'strong village role' bc wynaut)
catch a scumslip and lynch them
First, we'll go over the option of not lynching anyone. djanxo unchained sums it up better than I feel like summing it up, so I'm just going to quote him here.
↑
ok so i guess that guy was an anon lmao. in addition, i apparently didn't know that a wolf was neutral. derp.
Giving my two cents. First, I'm going to start off by apologizing: that post above mine? Yeah, I kinda slipped up. For those of you that do know my role now...well, I'll leave it up to you to decide what your own course of action is.
Secondly, let's talk about lynching. Here are our options:
↑
again the four options are:
no lynch
lynch macle under the assumption he is breloom (ou sleeper) or darkrai (ubers sleeper)
pick a new rand (and most likely get another claim of a 'strong village role' bc wynaut)
catch a scumslip and lynch them
First, we'll go over the option of not lynching anyone. djanxo unchained sums it up better than I feel like summing it up, so I'm just going to quote him here.
↑
I'm never a fan of no lynch, especially not for a game this size. To me, the benefits outweigh the costs. Yes, we don't have a lot to go off since it's only day one but not lynching at all is giving mafia teams free kills with no response. I dunno the situation for this game, but most mafia games I've been a part of have been like 25-33% mafia. If that holds true that means we have like 15-20 bad guys in this game. I think it's worth it to take a shot in the dark. Yes we risk killing a townsman but because the town is being represented by lower tier Pokemon, I think the chances of us hitting someone with a really good or critically important role are low. Not hopping on the no lynch train, still keeping my vote with macle.
The key point is that if we don't lynch, we're losing more than we could potentially gain by lynching someone, so as long as we have a good potential candidate, we can steer clear of no lynch. About catching a scumslip, as Yeti put it, we can't do that until there actually is a scumslip to catch, meaning we can't do that either. That leaves us two viable options: either we lynch macle, or we pick someone else.
I was originally going to make a long-winded post about why we should lynch macle, but something interesting happened to me while I was writing it.
[18:15:15] Endless Rebirth: If you are ou or ubers you should tell me as I'm the wolf and we need to coordinate kills
[18:24:22] 6tennis:You're a smart person, you know? I'll give you that. However, telling you who I am is too big of a risk. I'm not willing to take that risk.
[18:24:31] Endless Rebirth: its a not a risk
[18:24:41] Endless Rebirth: the fact you won't work with me
[18:24:59] Endless Rebirth: Probably says you aren't scum
[18:25:30] 6tennis: There are four possibilities. If I tell you I'm mafia, you could either be truthful or be lying to me. If you are telling the truth, then you'll say that you're mafia as well.
[18:25:37] Endless Rebirth: i am not mafia
[18:25:45] Endless Rebirth: can u read
[18:25:48] 6tennis: If I tell you I'm mafia and you're lying, then I'm suddenly in a pickle.
[18:25:53] 6tennis: [18:15:15] Endless Rebirth: If you are ou or ubers you should tell me as I'm the wolf and we need to coordinate kills
[18:26:20] 6tennis: And if I'm town, then a similar scenario presents itself.
[18:27:47] 6tennis: Which means that I have a 50% chance of getting caught, and a 50% chance of ruling both of us out as possibilities. 50% isn't a good chance for me, so I'm declining your offer.
[18:28:09] 6tennis: Is that alright? Or do you have something to say about your self-contradictory PMs?
[18:29:59] 6tennis: Guess not, then. Alright. Thank you for the information.
I don't think I have to explain what this means. That's all I feel like writing for now. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Thank you.
The key point is that if we don't lynch, we're losing more than we could potentially gain by lynching someone, so as long as we have a good potential candidate, we can steer clear of no lynch. About catching a scumslip, as Yeti put it, we can't do that until there actually is a scumslip to catch, meaning we can't do that either. That leaves us two viable options: either we lynch macle, or we pick someone else.
I was originally going to make a long-winded post about why we should lynch macle, but something interesting happened to me while I was writing it.
[18:15:15] Endless Rebirth: If you are ou or ubers you should tell me as I'm the wolf and we need to coordinate kills
[18:24:22] 6tennis:You're a smart person, you know? I'll give you that. However, telling you who I am is too big of a risk. I'm not willing to take that risk.
[18:24:31] Endless Rebirth: its a not a risk
[18:24:41] Endless Rebirth: the fact you won't work with me
[18:24:59] Endless Rebirth: Probably says you aren't scum
[18:25:30] 6tennis: There are four possibilities. If I tell you I'm mafia, you could either be truthful or be lying to me. If you are telling the truth, then you'll say that you're mafia as well.
[18:25:37] Endless Rebirth: i am not mafia
[18:25:45] Endless Rebirth: can u read
[18:25:48] 6tennis: If I tell you I'm mafia and you're lying, then I'm suddenly in a pickle.
[18:25:53] 6tennis: [18:15:15] Endless Rebirth: If you are ou or ubers you should tell me as I'm the wolf and we need to coordinate kills
[18:26:20] 6tennis: And if I'm town, then a similar scenario presents itself.
[18:27:47] 6tennis: Which means that I have a 50% chance of getting caught, and a 50% chance of ruling both of us out as possibilities. 50% isn't a good chance for me, so I'm declining your offer.
[18:28:09] 6tennis: Is that alright? Or do you have something to say about your self-contradictory PMs?
[18:29:59] 6tennis: Guess not, then. Alright. Thank you for the information.
I don't think I have to explain what this means. That's all I feel like writing for now. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Thank you.
ok so i guess that guy was an anon lmao. in addition, i apparently didn't know that a wolf was neutral. derp.
Last edited by a moderator:
i think ppl might be confused bc the irl mafia game also goes by werewolf where the wolves are the mafia.
on smogon, 'wolf' means neutral. this player generally/almost always needs everyone else in the game dead. they may have a teammate and be a wolf duo but solo wolf is equally as likely.
the wolf tends to have very strong/good roles because it has no team to work with and needs powerful abilities in order to survive to the end of the game, alone, and kill off 57 other people.
so when we say 'wolf' we mean this dangerous neutral who has kills. when we say 'mafia/scum' we mean the ubers and ou, the two informed, larger, organized factions of anti-town.
on smogon, 'wolf' means neutral. this player generally/almost always needs everyone else in the game dead. they may have a teammate and be a wolf duo but solo wolf is equally as likely.
the wolf tends to have very strong/good roles because it has no team to work with and needs powerful abilities in order to survive to the end of the game, alone, and kill off 57 other people.
so when we say 'wolf' we mean this dangerous neutral who has kills. when we say 'mafia/scum' we mean the ubers and ou, the two informed, larger, organized factions of anti-town.
unvote
I'd rather not risk lynching such a powerful village role. I spoke with macle, and just finished checking the erratic voting patterns of
Vote Acid Phoenix
(not unbolding my old vote b/c not 100% sure on intent of the recent host post.)
I'd rather not risk lynching such a powerful village role. I spoke with macle, and just finished checking the erratic voting patterns of
Vote Acid Phoenix
(not unbolding my old vote b/c not 100% sure on intent of the recent host post.)
I mean, there was something I saw not long ago - too lazy to dig out the reference - saying you CAN unbold the previous vote, and whether this was meant to override that or just reinforce.