Doubles Team Study: Week #6 - Matame

[talkingtree]

Okay because no one else seems to want to analyze this team instead of just partaking in the bash-check circlejerk that's going on as of this point, here goes:

To me it looks like this team was built around the idea of maintaining so much offensive pressure that you control the pace of the game, thus lessening your weaknesses to what would normally be very threatening. Sure, Talon can beat any one mon on his team, but then the other can kill it in the same turn, and in order to avoid getting destroyed by one of the many offensive threats on check's team, you have to use your mons as effectively as possible, because any slip up is fairly easily exploited. Guessing that this started with Kang / Azu / Rachi, built around a Knock Off BD Azu sweep considering how well that went for Zach against him week one. With those three, he can break through the majority of the meta and just needs to use the other three mons to cover the few things that don't fear those two huge wallbreakers. Talon gives him extra priority, Deo-A provides plenty of set up opportunities with its sheer power, and Lando-I breaks down Zard and Steels, both of which could be troubling for the main three.

Sure, from a glance the team looks really weak to sand, or rain, or scarf Washtom, or Talon, but this is Hyper Hyper Offense - it's not supposed to have a dedicated check to everything in the meta, it's supposed to keep the pressure on and overwhelm the opposing team. This is a team that, if played well, can maintain momentum in pretty much any matchup, and that's why check found success with it here. Cool team, fairly similar to check's normal style of building with Hyper Offense, ridiculous amounts of speed on mons that do not need that much (cough cough Goggles Rachi), and a few things to hopefully catch you off guard in Healing Wish, Jolly Kang, and Explosion.

 

[Checkmater]

Was about how it went, maybe with more intermediate steps I don't remember (I lost teams and had to restore by backup and got this team back because I had pasted into teamchat). I was Breloom version but I didn't like Breloom on it and felt weak to LandoT, particularly landot + kang or Talonflame. So I eventually I changed it to LandoI because I liked the matchups LandoI gave me and felt it had a better Talonflame matchup. I didn't really build around what I thought Biosci would bring (but I did list out some specific mon-predictions, all of which turned out to be wrong lol) because I had no read on his teambuilding style. Looking for replays only pulled up stuff from last year.

I called the team "Misstep" because that's how it plays: apply pressure and apply pressure until they slip and you win through proper positioning and keeping them on the backstep.

Sets:
I can't remember if I was actually Explosion during the match, might've been Focus Blast instead for hitting Kang/Kyube, not sure. Everything else is fairly standard.

Jolly Kang because I expected everyone to be using faster spreads for everything in SPL and fast Jirachi because it's the best set outside scarf Ancient Power. Healing Wish + Kang is cool because if it gets burned you can still reset it to full and bring in a fresh Fake Out. Both Healing Wish and Explosion are good for setting up positioning properly and refreshing Fake Out.

Talonflame is a set Hashtag made for Overheat, except just with more speed (I thought Biosci was the type of player who MIGHT bring Whimsicott, turns out it was BLINGAS).

Unhealthy amounts of speed on Azumarill because outspeeding Aegis is important and outspeeding ferro at para'd is also important, and Latios with Tailwind. Also winning mirrors. Knock Off > Play Rough for obvious reasons.

As for team weaknesses:

Yeah the team's ""talonflame weak"" in that 5/6 tank a bbird and there are things to KO it back with things that can outpriority talonflame. Rain/Sand/scarf Washtom didn't cross my mind because the team isn't weak to them.

My bigger concern was actually some blend of Gardevoir and a offensive fire like Talonflame being a huge issue, but I felt alright about my Garde mu, especially Jolly Double-Edge) enough to let it rest.

Also the team, in comparison to other HO builds, particularly opposing HO Kang (ie Qsns' Kang team, something like that) faces problems with that, espcially Jolly scarf LandoT. Sure it's gotta go fast but those teams are gotta go even faster. I lacked options for dealing with HO Aegis teams or Sun Aegis Offense (enough for me to consider stone edge landoI, but not for long)

In the end I guess everything worked out :)

 

[QWILY]

Importable

Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 216 HP / 24 Def / 32 SpA / 4 SpD / 232 Spe
Modest Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Perish Song
- Disable
- Protect

Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Friend Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Follow Me
- Helping Hand
- Icy Wind
- Protect

Dewgong @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Fake Out
- Disable
- Perish Song
- Protect

Gothitelle @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Heal Pulse
- Protect

Whimsicott @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 232 Spe
Timid Nature
- Encore
- Taunt
- Moonblast
- Protect

Scrafty @ Eject Button
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SpD
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Knock Off
- Quick Guard
- Detect

Your team for the next four seasonals sponsored by Level 51™
[17:31:12] @Level 51: "Dewgong was here, Stratos is a loser"

 

[Taliheim]

this is a level 51 team, is there even any thought process behind this other than "ooh this mon looks cool lets use it"

edit: was a joke, I fully trust that each mon holds a synergistic aspect in the team

 

[Idyll]

That's honestly kind of offensive tbh. While I'm obviously taking the bait, it wouldn't be unfair to say that Level 51's team has some semblance of strategy and synergy, especially since it's made it really this deep into a tour. Even if it's PerishTrap, one still has to think fairly well when playing lol

Unless, of course, that's literally how it was built jej

 

[Stratos]

Wow I'm really glad we're doing a VGC15 team study of teams that almost entirely weren't built by their submitters

 

[Bughouse]

http://pokemonforever.com/Thread-RATE-MY-TEAM-Death-by-Perish-Trap

 

[Taliheim]

Anyway, let's try this out.

The team is quite obviously built around Perish Trapping and Disable-cheesing its way into doing so, which while looked down on ends up being pretty effective. M-Gar would be the obvious starting point, with STag, PSong and Disable. Gothitelle is a close second addition as the only other viable perish trapper, Trick Room being used for speed control and to let Scrafty/Dewgong do their jobs better. Whimsicott pairs with STag, Disable, and Encore to make the opposing 'mons struggle to death, with Prankster Taunt shutting down opposing Taunts and other shenanigans that could potentially shut down the strategy. Dewgong here provides Disable + Perish song for a secondary option to MGar, as well as Fake Out support. Scrafty provides Fake Out and Quick Guard support, to keep opposing priority (namely opposing Fake Out, priority Taunt/TWave from thundy) from messing with the strategy, with Eject Button retaining momentum for the do-or-die PTrap strategy. Detect > protect for style points obviously. Clefairy provides speed control when Trick Room isn't an option, wastes crucial turns for the opponent with redirection, and gives Helping Hand support to help the team's offensive aspect. Speaking of which, with the combination of MGar, Scrafty, Goth, and HH Clefairy, the team isn't completely useless offensively, and can bank on it if plan A goes wrong and the team needs to wrap up the win some other way. Heal Pulse Goth and Friend Guard Clefairy helps keep the team alive for more chances to PTrap.

Also:
/ds fake out, disable, perish song:
Dewgong, Seel, Smeargle

 

[Level 51]

Wow I'm really glad we're doing a VGC15 team study of teams that almost entirely weren't built by their submitters

Hey, thanks for the feedback! While it's true that this team is indeed 5/6 copied from Dr. J's VGC '15 team, I did face some decisions of my own to make.

For instance, a team like this plays extremely differently in 6v6 Doubles as compared to 4v4, as you have to do an extra round of trapping, but you also get two extra Pokemon to use to aid in the trap. Overall, though, I feel the change is one that has significantly weakened this form of Perish Trap, and as such I had to choose from a few different options while converting the team. One of them, as you can see, is manifested in the form of Whimsicott.

The point of this project is to look at successful teams and figure out how they play and why they work, so if a team plays interestingly and works well I don't see why the origin of a team matters at all. Anyway, I'll obviously talk more about this at the end of the week, but until then, I trust that my fellow posters can be level-headed and mature instead of posting vaguely insulting one-liners. Thanks for your consideration!

 

[ryo yamada2001]

this team is absolutely ridiculous and I don't know why level got so far with this

i love it

 

[Level 51]

oH apparently it's been my week for like a month now, and I was supposed to post something here. UHM I'm not great at writing about how to use a team or how it works per se, but I'll try!!

I think the team plays fairly formulaically, so I'll go through a sample gameplan I guess. The easiest way to start a game is to get a fast Perish Trap off first with a Gengar / Clefairy lead (Follow Me + Perish Song) or Gengar / Scrafty (Fake Out + Perish Song); Clefairy is the preferred option for leads such as Hydreigon, Darkrai, Hoopa etc, which have strong targeted moves capable of dealing heavy damage to Gengar but which can be easily neutered by a Follow Me from Clefairy. Follow Me is also good for redirecting fast or Prankster Taunts. Clefairy also has some neat tricks; for example, Helping Hand and Gengar's Shadow Ball KOs 252/0 Aegislash; Icy Wind + Protect lets Gengar outrun a Scarfed Landorus-Therian the next turn and Disable it; and so forth.

Scrafty + Gengar works better on opponents who have a bunch of Pokemon capable of dishing out strong spread moves, like Landorus-Therian + Charizard-Y. Fake Out lets it stop one attack for the turn, and Eject Button gives you a free switch to Dewgong for Fake Out + Disable or Clefairy for Icy Wind → Disable. Generally, I try to bring Gothitelle in on the second-last turn of Perish Song and setting up Trick Room on the last, if possible; otherwise, if the opposing team is slow enough, I can bring Gengar back out off a Clefairy's faint or Scrafty's Eject Button switch.

If I'm going for the slow Perish Trap, Dewgong is my Perish Song user of choice; it can help Gothitelle get a Trick Room up with Fake Out, and afterwards it can go for a Perish Song or Disables while Gothitelle Heal Pulses to get Dewgong's health back up. Once Perish Song is up I can also go out to Scrafty or Clefairy to (a) heal them and (b) lower damage done to Gothitelle. On the other hand, a fast Trap operates similarly to the first fast Trap, with Gengar / Clefairy / Scrafty forming the main means to perform the Perish Trap. Meanwhile, Whimsicott fits pretty decently on both fast and slow Perish Traps as an Amoonguss stop / Encore user in slow mode and as a Prankster Taunt stop / Encore user in fast mode. It's also probably the first thing to get sacrificed midgame, so in that sense it's a pivot in a sick kind of way. If I get the first two Traps off with minimal losses, the last Trap is fairly easy to secure.

So yeah, it's a team. The goal of the team was to get maximum mobility among the members to make Traps easy to pull off with minimal losses. I can't claim to be the creator of this team, since as Stratos often points out I'm not, but hey! It's a team. It works, especially on unprepared players. It's not bad. Try it sometime! Or don't, because now everyone knows what it does. s/o to Talenheim for actually bothering to try to interpret the team but I guess it's not too hard??

 

[QWILY]

The whole world wondered where it is, but no one knew. After crying fangirls and newspaper article it is finally back:

tEaM sTuDy WeEk 5​

But what would be a new week without a new team?

Importable

Victini @ Charcoal
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- V-create
- Protect
- Trick Room
- Zen Headbutt

Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 44 HP / 44 Def / 184 SpA / 32 SpD / 204 Spe
Timid Nature
- Heat Wave
- Solar Beam
- Protect
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 60 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Rock Tomb
- Ice Punch

Sylveon (F) @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Pixilate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 92 HP / 4 Def / 228 SpA / 4 SpD / 180 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Hyper Voice
- Calm Mind
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect

Landorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Protect
- Rock Slide
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Jirachi @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Follow Me
- Trick Room
- Protect

This is a modified version of the team Biosci used against Braverius in SPL Week 5. Thanks to him!

Also Talenheim is the winner of "last week"

 

[Platinum God n1n1]

There is a lot of speed on CharY and Lando for a team with 2 TR setters; but still a fairly bulky enough team to play outside of TR. I like teams that have the option to play in or out of TR depending on their match up which looks like what he was going for here
The pixie plate on sylveon is a neat choice too

surprisingly well rounded victini charY team.
Lando looks to be the biggest problem as both his TR setters dont want to take EQ. So not letting HP ice Lando or Ice Punch Cock die before lando is taken out is absolutely key imo.
He has 4 ways to beat heatran which is needed on a team like this.

Hes got Rock Tomb on Conk which is questionable. It seems just too weak and too situational to be worth the spot. But if hes Lando is taken out thats his only way to beat opposing CharY. still its pretty weak, I feel like scrafty would have been a better choice as fighting with fake out support to get TR up
I should thank Biosci for using TR CharY in SPL as it backs up my claim that CharY is a great TR pokemon. thetalkingtree should add it to list of TR attackers

I'd also like to hear Biosci thought process on building this

 

[Deaga]

Brand new team here

The OP still has the importable for Week 4's team, even though the Pokémon icons correspond to the new team. ;)

 

[QWILY]

oh yeah i forgot to change that. thanks :)

 

[Ray Majore]

ANALYSIS
This is a fairly unique team for a playstyle like Fullroom because some of these Pokemon go fast out of it, which is kinda hard to fit in fullroom. Char-y in Trick Room is a fun thing to watch; it basically can kill threats that are normally faster than it such as Mega Diancie and Terrakion, although the team handles them nicely as well. No fake out support means Biosci might've been relying on Follow Me to get TR up, as I don't see any other plausible way to get up TR within turn 1 or 2. While the team hates Lando in general, Lando-I and Conkeldurr surprisingly beats it out anyway. The team has 4 answers to Heatran, which is obligatory on a Sun team. However, the lack of a grass type meant it's either up to AV Conk or Sun to defeat it.

His main problem would be Lando that's for sure. Talonflame comes a close second here as well.

 

[Biosci]

Sorry about the wait, forgot about this x_x

So when building the team I was looking at team compositions I'd enjoyed in VGC 2015. This one took a ton of inspiration from this team. I knew the style of play however wouldn't really as well in DOU so I had to make a number of adjustments. I liked the way the team could present some really strong board control and I wanted to try to emphasize on that with having a number of different modes. Only a couple mons on the team rely on TR, but TR is such a great move to gain control in almost any match. I didn't want to rely on it however which is why I opted for a more speedy Charizard. As noted above, Lando-T was kind of an issue when building so I wanted my Charizard to at least outspeed Jolly Lando-T. The Lando-I was just extra insurance vs Lando-T and Heatran.

The lack of Fake Out was something that felt off, but I still think this team can get TR pretty easily without it thanks to Follow Me, unique typing, and just good bulk. Even though my TR setters are weak to Lando-T, neither get OHKOd(Unless Choice Band which happened vs Zach) so I can usually at least get 1 TR off a game. Conkeldurr and Sylveon were probably my favorite parts about this team. Calm Mind Sylveon to punish playing too defensive vs TR and Conk to provide pressure in and outside of TR thanks to it's bulk and strong coverage. The last move was pretty filler on it for me. Personally I don't think Rock Slide Conkeldurr is good, and I didn't want to rely on Stone Edge to deal with possible Charizard/Talonflame so Rock Tomb came up as an option. It ends up being a pretty cool option with the added speed control so I never minded having it. I hate using Knock Off to deal with Aegislash, and I felt like I had enough answers to Aegi anyway. Victini and Jirachi deserve a special shoutout too. Both ended up being pretty great options when I was putting together this team. Jirachi acting as both solid redirection and Trick Room set up and Victini pulling off OTR extremely well. No Pokemon in VGC even compare to what they can do so it's kind of nice to get to use them here.

I've ended up going to revamp this team quite a bit as I just liked how this team felt when playing. This team is definitely fun, but far from perfect. I've used heavier Charizard TR in the past, but this team just played way different than that team. Not to mention all the meta changes that have happened since then. Even now this team feels a little outdated thanks to Volcanion being released, so I'd definitely fix up the team some if you even consider using it.

Again sorry for holding this up qwily , you guys hit the nail on the head pretty much. The goal of the team was semi-TR to be as flexible as possible and I think this team did that for me.

 

[QWILY]

Ray Majore wins

Importable

Maniac (Conkeldurr) @ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Hammer Arm
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Wide Guard

Temporal Spire (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Hyperspace Hole
- Hyperspace Fury
- Protect

Kangaskhan-Mega @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Fake Out
- Double-Edge
- Hammer Arm
- Sucker Punch

Heatran @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Protect

Bronzong @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 92 Atk / 48 Def / 116 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rock
- Safeguard

Sylveon Plath (Sylveon) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball
- Hyper Beam

This week's team is an updated version of the team Matame built with Paraplegic and used in DPL which was able to beat Croven.
Replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/doublesou-369731343

Also, if you have a team you would like to see featured here, feel free to PM me!_!

 

[SingleThunder]

Matame and Paraplegic built a Trick Room team with Hoopa-Unbound and Sylveon/Kanga as the heavy hitters. Kanga with Fake Out assists Hoopa or Zong to set up Trick Room. Focusing on Kanga, the team needs it to knock out quickly, so Double-Edge is power over something like PuP, which doesn't fit the team; Hammer Arm lowers Kanga's speed so that it can underspeed key marks (Amoonguss, Tran) while still having power (it also helps as a super effective move against Heatran because the team struggles against it). The Hammer Arm analysis also fits for Conkeldurr, and its Wide Guard defends against Lando/Tran/Sylv spread moves like EQ or Heat Wave. Knock Off helps against Psychic types because only that and Hyperspace Fury hit something like Cresselia with a super-effective move. Mach Punch is good for chip damage or finishing a Pokemon off and acts as the only high-priority move, besides Fake Out, so I'm guessing Matame/Paraplegic try to conserve Conk(?). Not much to say for Hoopa-Unbound: dual-STAB hits most Pokemon pretty hard and breaks Protect, which is commonly used to stall out Trick Room, and Hoopa's TR might come as a surprise because an opponent might expect the fourth move to be coverage (Gunk Shot/Drain Punch, etc.). Putting Goggles on Heatran was smart; it lets it stay in or switch in on Amoonguss, especially while TR is up, and full HP Eruption is deadly. Earth Power covers other Heatran's or an Aegislash using/Matame expects to use Wide Guard. As is the theme, Fire Blast hits hard (like Kanga's Double-Edge idea), and Heatran already has a spread move in Eruption. Plus, Fire Blast most likely gets the OHKO on Aegislash or other Pokemon it hits super effectively. Zong with Goggles was probably necessary to get TR off as Amoonguss or Breloom tried to Spore it. Safeguard protects the team from Spore and burning Kanga/Conk/(Hoopa I guess)/Gyro to combat Hyper Offense/ and Stealth Rocks to help when players switch to stall out Trick Room + the dank memes that SR are in DOU. Sylveon is standard and can beat Hydreigon/Hoopa that the team is threatened by; Specs is the norm (Matame might have tried a Lefties + CM set?) and Shadow Ball combats Aegislash, with Hyper Beam being a Pixilated nuke. Cool team. I hope I wrote this post correctly!
EDIT: After testing: On paper it's fine w/ Breloom, but in practice, it is really awkward getting around Spore, esp since it's doubles and Breloom has a partner. ??

 

[Stratos]

matame didnt even want to beat zard

 

[KyleCole]

Idk if we're supposed to rate the teams but here are some things:

• giving Heatran Ancientpower > Eruption and giving hoopa sash would help against the massive zard/talon weakness.
• Give Heatran at least 7 speed IVs so that it outspeeds Hoopa-U and attacks after Hoopa breaks protect once TR is up.
  • e: Modest Sylveon with at least 24 Speed IVs as well
• If you have goggles on both Bronzong and Heatran then you probably don't need Safeguard on top of that. Sunny Day would be pretty good imo

 

[Platinum God n1n1]

Each week, I will post a team from a high-level player, which will be analysed by the community. Things to consider when posting are what his goal / inspiring idea was, the role of the pokemon he chose, the movesets and spreads, and the strengths and weaknesses. After the discussion, the builder himself will post a analysis of his team and will answer open questions. The week's best analysis will be posted in the OP.

Yeah, its not RMT thread


This is a scary team imo. Matame could have settled for drain punch conk, hoopa with sash and/or bulk, ect. but instead went full offensive. You dont often see TR teams this offensive, but against croven it may not have won if it went for more bulk bc corven was running standard bulky offense. Early on he got intimdated+wisp'd on hoopa so that Life Orb 252 SpA came in to be clutch. His Kang did significantly more damage even at -1 than he would have been able to do with out Low Kick on opposing Kang which helped him a lot in the start of the battle. Late on in the battle though the bulk and recovering move of Jellicent saved him against Aegi so he could come back and kill Lando, which gave him problems, with Hydro.
In general this team just looks to get TR going and wreck with the strongest moves you can put on these mons. Fire Blast Heatran came through for him in this game. Having the two extremely power spread moves Eruption and Hyper Voice offer great complementary coverage. Additionally they both benefit from Hoopa being able to break through Wide Guards.
The brongzong set looks really cool as it can safeguard form amoonguss and stealthrocks for talon. Those two mons look like they would give him big problems otherwise if heatran is taken out.