Propose Sub Clauses to be deemed legal here (Keep it civil)

[Frosty]

So I got sick and tired of seeing so many "why is this sub illegal?" discussions.

HOW DOES IT WORK

Like with the move CT thread, you post here a Substitution clause you think should be legal. Include the reasoning why you think should be legal (reasoning based more on the gameplay consequences).

Something like:

Substitution: IF Aerodactyl would be hit by thunder with 22BAP
In Detail: A sub tha activates if Aerodactyl is under fly, bounce or sky drop
Reasoning: I think we should have a sub that covers Bounce, Fly and Sky Drop, since all of them can be used to evade attacks on doubles+

WHAT IS THE CATCH: If you get either 2 of the 4 mods or 3 of the 5 councilmembers (or absolute majority if the number of councilmembers change) to like your post, it will be considered a Word of God or a Council decision to make that sub legal (or merely declare it such) and someone will make it a pretty clause and add to the list of clauses deemed legal that will be on this OP or, if it is a class or something suited to go to the handbook, it will be put there. Yes you can ask for certain classes to be made legal and to be included on the handbook.

If the user that posted is a Mod or/and a Council Member, they will count towards the necessary votes for a decision. So if a mod posts and get another mod to like it, it is done. Same way if a councilmember posts and two more like it.

The mod team reserves the right to make any and every adjustment necessary to the proposal before implementation so it doesn't break anything important.

So please mods and councilmembers, only like a post if you feel it should be legal. Not because you are like-happy. Also something should be clear here: ONCE A DECISION IS MADE, YOU CAN'T TURN BACK.

If any councilmember or mod feels that the particular sub warrants a discussion, they can create a thread to discuss it outside of here. Sure, if the necessary number of likes is achieved on the meantime, the sub will be deemed legal regardless. At least until a decision is reached on the specific voting.

Other Rules

• You can argue over a proposed change but do not let it derail the thread or drown out other proposed changes.
• As mentioned in the template, please consider the competitive implications of your proposed change or your proposal is likely to be rejected. We do not change things for the sake of changing things
• DON'T BUMP YOUR POST OR FACE WARNING. If it wasn't liked, then it merely wasn't good enough. You can though quote it to remind one mod that you already got the approval necessary and that it should be implemented on the OP.
• Any posts with the intention to troll or are as a result of "salt" will be deleted and infracted (and the change will be automatically declined) without question. We know the difference. This is NOT a salt thread. You have been warned.
• Decisions done here will be valid only for battles that start after the sub is included on the OP. The person that doe the inclusion must post on this tread stating so. Because of this, please refrain from asking for rulings or legality checks here, as the decision made won't affect your battle.
• I reserve the right to move all sub changes I deem too big or potentially harmful to separate discussions and delete the post from here to remove it from voting (even if a council (not WoG) decision was made on the matter). I can't, however, delete without creating the discussion and that only applies to changes that would have a wide effect on how we treat subs.
• Other general rules apply, so no flaming etc.

Now let's watch and see as this fails spetacularly.

List of Legal Subs thus far

- IF Mon X would act before Mon Y based on Speed order THEN
Explanation: A sub that covers when a pokemon is to go before another, due to speed, in and out of trick room.

- If Mon X is floating
Explanation: A sub that covers levitate, levitate (command) and Magnet Rise, as well as arena effects that simulate the conditions above.

 

[JJayyFeather]

Substitution: IF Mon X is to use a Hazard-Setting Move, THEN use Move Y and push back, etc.
Reasoning: Well, we allow substitutions for the other forms of matchup control (Switch-Forcing and Self-Switching), so it would only make sense that we should be able to sub for the other way we control matchups in ASB.

 

[Mowtom]

Substitution: IF Mon X would act before Mon Y based on Speed order THEN blah blah blah
Or, alternatively, IF Mon X would act before Mon Y in the same priority bracket THEN blah blah blah
In Detail: A sub that combines being faster outside of Trick Room and slower inside of it. Obviously, changing the "before" to "after" should be legal as well
Reasoning: IF you are faster AND Trick Room is not up is a fairly common sub. One which cannot be combined with IF you are slower AND Trick Room is up, despite them resulting in the same effect. It makes sense to encapsulate what is actually intended by either, going first based on Speed order alone, into a single, more explicit sub.

 

[Dogfish44]

Substitution: Attack-Increasing Moves, Defense-Increasing Moves, Special Attack-Increasing Moves, etc.
In Detail: Move Clauses for groupings like "Swords Dance, Howl, Power-Up Punch" and similar.
Reasoning: Attack-Decreasing, Defense-Decreasing, etc., are already a thing.

 

[Frosty]

Something I forgot to mention: If the user that posted is a Mod or/and a Council Member, they will count towards the necessary votes for a decision.

This was added to the OP.

Which means that the post above got the necessary support and will be implemented as soon as a Mod get the time to do so (I will in like 4 hours if no one does it before).

 

[Dogfish44]

Hazard-setting was implemented (2/4 Mods)

Trick Room Shenanigans are 'implemented' (2/4 Mods), although how to phrase it is not yet done. Since that's surpisingly complex. It's a legal single chance clause, so you can just write it out in full until something is figured out there.

 

[Maxim]

Substitution: If Damaging Evasive move, then when suspended use Move X, when attacking use Move Y (As one substitution)
In Detail: The sub activates for any case of a damaging evasive move, producing two different outputs depending on which "phase" of that move they're in.
Reasoning: Currently you have to do two subs to account for pretty much any damaging evasive move, unless you're lucky enough to have a priority move or other "surefire" way of getting past it. Since not every Pokemon is blessed with something like that, I believe that spending two subs on one substitution class is a little unbalanced.

 

[Dogfish44]

Oh, right, I wanted to shout about this before.

Substitution: If Mon X is floating
In Detail: A general sub for being under the effect of Levitate, Levitate (Command), and Magnet Rise
Reasoning: When I asked on IRC, I was told I couldn't sub for both Levitate (Command) and Magnet Rise with a single chance sub. This felt daft - both are much the same effect.

 

[Frosty]

"If Mon X is floating" is a valid substitution now.

Carry on.

 

[Mowtom]

Substitution: IF OHKO move THEN blah blah blah
In Detail: This covers Horn Drill, Guillotine, Fissure, and Sheer Cold.
Reasoning: Enough Pokemon have more than one OHKO move that if Gravity, a +Speed nature, or other things mess with accuracy, OHKO moves become very dangerous. They are similar enough that there should be a way to sub for all four at once. Especially Horn Drill and Guillotine, but the others too.

EDIT: To respond to a message Frosty left on my profile, Smeargle is the main one, being able to do comboes with any of them to grant perfect accuracy as well as use Lock-On, Colossoil generally runs +Speed and has Fissure and Horn Drill, and the Nidos get Fissure and Horn Drill as well. Obviously this won't be a common tactic, but if we've agreed that self-KO moves are worth a sub class, these should be as well for their last-ditch gambling potential.

 

[acidphoenix]

Substitution: IF X clause THEN AND NOT Y move
In Detail: Letting one move
Reasoning: IF damaging Psychic-type move AND NOT Mirror Coat, IF damaging Fighting-type move AND NOT Counter, IF damaging Psychic-type combo AND NOT Future Sight are all good clauses and there's nothing that you can actually abuse this with

 

[Dogfish44]

Whoops!

OHKO moves are now a valid sub class (Councillors Deadfox081, Dogfish44, ZhengTann - 3/5). Moving on.