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Project VGC 2016 Teambuilding Workshop
- Thread starter Draconid997
- Start date
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Thats a pretty tough question, and is really up to personal preference. In terms of matchups, i think xerneas groudon is the strongest pairing but again rayogre and double primal are very strong also. In a way it depends on your playstyle.
If you are more inclined to fast/hyper offense, use RayOgre
If you have a more methodical playstyle, use Double Primal or Yveltal Groudon (or even dialga kyogre)
If you want to use big 6 then thats totally fine also but just be aware that everybody will be prepared for it
If you want to use something fun, use gravity spam (kyu w/groudon), but this is usually quite inconsistent and requires a lot of set up, however it is totally viable
I'm leaning toward yveltal groudon at the minute as i think that in theory, a core of yveltal groudon thundurus can deal with a tonne of threats, and the last 3 mons can just optimise matchups, but that's just my opinion
Hope that kinda answers your question, if you need help teambuilding feel free to ask here
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I used big six about a week ago at a mid season showdown, where I scored 2nd. It wasn't exactly big six, it was Groudon xerneas Landorus Thundurus smeargle and salamence. What play style would this go into? I felt very comfortable using Landorus therian. I was also spamming intimidate. I lost to number one because of a extreme speed crit taking out my xerneas.
Tl:dr what is this teams play style
I would say your Big 6 variation is more of a reactionary playstyle (double genies, salamence, groudon), mixed with offensive/set up (xerneas smeargle). Hard to define, but it's something around that. Other reactionary teams (which are teams that require different approaches at team preview depending on what your opponent has brought) include double primal teams and other methodical archetypes including dialga kyogre, yveltal groudon and even xerneas kyogre (to name a few).
Hey man, sorry about the late response
Your current team looks as though thundurus and ferrothorn would fit really nicely onto it. This allows your team to handle a load of common threats, for example, a thundurus/yveltal lead will give you a promising lead vs stuff like kyogre etc. Ferrothorn allows you to beat xerneas a little more consistently and allows you to beat kyogre's TR mode.
Here are some sample sets:
Thundurus @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 180 HP / 60 Def / 4 SpA / 164 SpD / 100 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt
- Swagger
- Outspeeds positive 252 speed base 90's by 2 points and landorus-t by one point (158).
- 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 180 HP / 164 SpD Thundurus: 144-170 (81.3 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
- 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 180 HP / 164 SpD Thundurus in Heavy Rain: 148-175 (83.6 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
- (Water spout is a 2HKO after taking thunderbolt damage)
- 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 180 HP / 60 Def Thundurus: 184-218 (103.9 - 123.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
- 252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 180 HP / 60 Def Thundurus: 80-94 (45.1 - 53.1%) -- 8.6% chance to 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
- +2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Dazzling Gleam vs. 180 HP / 164 SpD Thundurus: 150-177 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Atk / 100 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- 156+ Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 218-258 (107.9 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- +2 252 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Ferrothorn: 55-66 (30.3 - 36.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 156+ Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 182-216 (103.4 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Ferrothorn in Heavy Rain: 80-95 (44.1 - 52.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 100 SpD Ferrothorn in Heavy Rain: 59-70 (32.5 - 38.6%) -- 6.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Is a reactionary team bad? If so, what should I do?
Nah, reactionary teams are just a bit harder to use at team preview than say offensive combo teams (i.e you have to choose the best mons for the matchup), which is actually a pretty good advantage to other team styles. Other team styles are as i have said, offensive/combo and defensive. Out of the three, reactionary teams are i would say among the best, so theres no need to worry. If you want help with your team or gameplans vs common archetypes, feel free to ask
Thanks a bunch, man :) With Thundurus as speed control and Taunt support, should I replace Crobat with something else, or do you still think it's worth keeping on the team?
Mega salamence would be a really good replacement for crobat, it helps vs rayquaza which your team sorely needs, and provides intimidate support which is also great. I would also recommend trying out a few of the spreads in my latest rmt which i mentioned in my last post, as they are a little more optimal than the ones you mentioned (e.g for yveltal, groudon etc)
Thanks again :) Yeah, I checked out your RMT. I was planning on trying out your spreads. I've never had the patience for figuring out that level of meticulous optimization, so that's a big help.
Happy to help :)
If you have any further questions, feel free to write here or pm me
So I try running this team High/Low with Trick Room as an accent. This team is 10-10 on Battle Spot Then I tweaked with it and everything fell off the the wagon and I started getting mad with them. This is the original team. Also looking to exchange one of my Megas I do wreck myself when choose both of them.
This team gets checked by scarfed and Herbed Smeragle, Ferrothorn and Amoongus. Worse under Trick Room. Here are the individual roles I generally have them at.
Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Tomb
- Fire Punch
- Precipice Blades
- Protect
Point of this one is to hit as hard and as fast as possible. I chose Tomb over Slide is not become Wide Guard bait and gives it a degree of speed control. While the lack of power it carries may not be desirable its better than trying to fight off a wide guard. I think I need to put some bulk in him to be more of an enforcer type than seemingly the glass jaw type it is now.
Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Low Kick
- Sucker Punch
- Fake Out
Khan is Standard Low kick pretty much KOs Fellow Khans. I was considering switching Sucker Punch for Crunch for more reliable dark move. If Taunt isnt set up Sucker Punch becomes a guessing game and hope you are right. I dont get much use outta her overall and I think I only used her less than 3 times in Battle Spot.
Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Ice Beam
- Helping Hand
- Trick Room
- Skill Swap
Cress the the support superstar of the team. If shes not setting up TR for Kyorge shes Swapping skills with Groudon to maintain weather advantage. Shes bulked up to take insane amount of abuse from Mega Khan and Mega Mence with 2hko and 3hko respectively. Her Ice beam hurts Landurous-T and Mence but I think I need to invest more into her power in case of being taunted.
Kyogre @ Blue Orb
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 49
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 228 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Protect
Kyorge is dependent on TR. The EV spread allows it to take Mega Khans Double Edge. Helping Hand Thunder 2hkos another Kyorge. Lv 49 promises under trick room it will go before a lv 50 identical Kyorge. Ice Beam is well Ice Beam
Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Protect
Another Mega. Generally thrives in TR but isnt always needed. Mega Maw KOs Xerneas and Yvetal. Keeping sucker punch it serves it better. Sometimes it leads to cut attack stats.
Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Grass Knot
- Taunt
This guys leads a lot to taunt pranksters when it works. Its for the most part a standard Offense Thundurus. You see Grass Knot and be like wtf right? Well it hurts Groudon for at least 60% damage. 80% with Helping hand. Good to set up a revenge kill by Groudon or Khan.
I know I need some more experience with this team but I know there are general problems like to who takes the lead. There isnt always that one guy. Any other thoughts and tips would be appreciated. I do have battle vids saved if you like to view them.
This team gets checked by scarfed and Herbed Smeragle, Ferrothorn and Amoongus. Worse under Trick Room. Here are the individual roles I generally have them at.
Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Tomb
- Fire Punch
- Precipice Blades
- Protect
Point of this one is to hit as hard and as fast as possible. I chose Tomb over Slide is not become Wide Guard bait and gives it a degree of speed control. While the lack of power it carries may not be desirable its better than trying to fight off a wide guard. I think I need to put some bulk in him to be more of an enforcer type than seemingly the glass jaw type it is now.
Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Low Kick
- Sucker Punch
- Fake Out
Khan is Standard Low kick pretty much KOs Fellow Khans. I was considering switching Sucker Punch for Crunch for more reliable dark move. If Taunt isnt set up Sucker Punch becomes a guessing game and hope you are right. I dont get much use outta her overall and I think I only used her less than 3 times in Battle Spot.
Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Ice Beam
- Helping Hand
- Trick Room
- Skill Swap
Cress the the support superstar of the team. If shes not setting up TR for Kyorge shes Swapping skills with Groudon to maintain weather advantage. Shes bulked up to take insane amount of abuse from Mega Khan and Mega Mence with 2hko and 3hko respectively. Her Ice beam hurts Landurous-T and Mence but I think I need to invest more into her power in case of being taunted.
Kyogre @ Blue Orb
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 49
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 228 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Protect
Kyorge is dependent on TR. The EV spread allows it to take Mega Khans Double Edge. Helping Hand Thunder 2hkos another Kyorge. Lv 49 promises under trick room it will go before a lv 50 identical Kyorge. Ice Beam is well Ice Beam
Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Protect
Another Mega. Generally thrives in TR but isnt always needed. Mega Maw KOs Xerneas and Yvetal. Keeping sucker punch it serves it better. Sometimes it leads to cut attack stats.
Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Grass Knot
- Taunt
This guys leads a lot to taunt pranksters when it works. Its for the most part a standard Offense Thundurus. You see Grass Knot and be like wtf right? Well it hurts Groudon for at least 60% damage. 80% with Helping hand. Good to set up a revenge kill by Groudon or Khan.
I know I need some more experience with this team but I know there are general problems like to who takes the lead. There isnt always that one guy. Any other thoughts and tips would be appreciated. I do have battle vids saved if you like to view them.
Hey man sorry about the late reply, I've been pretty busy lately :/
The team looks really interesting, there are very few flaws in your pokemon choices although if you feel as though it struggles whilst under trick room, there are two pathways you can take with your team:
1) Opt for a faster team, so that you don't have to worry about your own trick room mode
2) Use a more balanced team that operates in and out of trick room equally well
So here are my suggested teams for both options. Both will only have one mega which you mentioned may be useful to you for ease of selection, and I will include an importable for each team at the bottom of the descriptions. Of course you are entitled to use whatever you like, be it different EV spreads/sets/mons etc :)
1)
The idea for this team was initially suggested to me by SamVGC, who said this was something Chuppa Cross had been using, and I liked the idea. Instead of TR, you have the ability to lead with say, Weavile and Salamence, and be able to set up a tailwind to aid in a sweep. Salamence boosts your matchup vs opposing double primal teams, Weavile helps vs RayOgre/Yveltal and provides fake out support that can also pressure a TR set up. Thundurus again, like your own team helps in this this one too, providing an answer to primal kyogre and helps a lot vs big 6 leads when paired with groudon. Ferrothorn is here to provide an answer to xerneas, much like your own mawile, but also helps a little more vs kyogre :)
Importable: http://pastebin.com/uchKBZHd
Feel free to ask me what the spreads do, some are pretty complex :/
2)
This is now kind of a 'standard' double primal team that you might see around the ladder. Your standard game plan vs big 6 with this team would be to lead groudon thundurus with kyogre and bronzong in the back. Salamence remains as my recommended mega, as this dramatically increases your matchup vs rayquaza and opposing double primal teams, as well as stuff like Yveltal Groudon teams. Bronzong is a helpful replacement to cresselia that also takes up mawile's role of xerneas counter. Amoonguss is great on this kind of team because of its access to spore, redirection and crucially after you, which is a nice tech that you can take advantage of when combined with a fast mon when under trick room, which might help you out in some tricky spots. A Salamence (or kyogre) + Amoonguss lead will work really well against yveltal kyogre teams, as yveltal suffers from a redirection weakness although oblivion wing sets can really hurt amoonguss.
Importable: http://pastebin.com/3LQxhFtZ
Back to your original team. If you want to keep all 6 mons, here are some of my minor suggestions for areas of improvement:
Kyogre
Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 49
EVs: 236 HP / 220 Def / 48 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Protect
I've gone for a more defensive set here, which still accomplishes pretty much the same benchmarks. It survives a volt tackle from zap plate raichu, as well as 2 precipice blades from jolly groudon (3HKO) (Choice Band Dragon Ascent from rayquaza also rarely OHKOs). The rest goes into special attack and special defense. Personally i wouldn't recommend running thunder on a double primal team, but its totally fine if you want to keep it :)
Cresselia
Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 244 HP / 108 Def / 156 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Trick Room
- Ice Beam
- Helping Hand / Gravity
- Skill Swap
The standard smogon spread for sitrus cresselia. To quote the analysis directly, "The HP EVs grant Cresselia an even number of HP, which allows Sitrus Berry to activate after taking a Super Fang from Crobat. The remaining investment makes both Jolly Mega Kangaskhan's Double-Edge and Modest Primal Groudon's Eruption a 3HKO factoring in Sitrus Berry's recovery." Gravity can be use over helping hand if you're worried about the shaky accuracy of origin pulse/thunder to help maximize your efficiency under trick room.
Mawile and thundurus are fine if you're comfortable with those sets, although i would run sash thundurus with protect over Grass Knot on this team, as I will explain. If you lead groudon thundurus into big 6 and they lead talonflame, it will be able to OHKO your thundurus in sun with flare blitz. Your thundurus is max speed which allows it to outspeed adamant talonflame sets, but jolly sets can outspeed you and still OHKO thundurus without sash. Protect is also pretty vital if they instead decide to lead kangaskhan smeargle, which requires you to double protect first turn in the case that they fake out thundurus, so that you can taunt smeargle turn 2. Admittedly they can predict this move and go for a side-PuP, but it's quite unlikely. Thunder wave is definitely an option i would consider, as this helps a bunch when you decide not to bring trick room, but it's up to you, HP Ice is still really nice for salamence/landorus etc
Hope I can help you out, and best of luck with your team :)
Herbed smeargle is a real pain to deal with in bo1 scenarios. The best 'available' counter is safeguard lum bronzong, which is able to set up safeguard with relative ease as well as provide a safe counter to xerneas in xerneas smeargle leads. Bronzong and kyogre are two fantastic mons to use vs big 6, although you can't lead with both. The best thing to lead is i would say groudon bronzong, although in this scenario a slow groudon would be preferable so that you can utilise trick room to gain the advantage over your opponent. Other mons you can use include talonflame, who is able to OHKO smeargle only if you know that it is indeed mental herb, which is why bronzong is overall better in bo1. Substitute fast groudon will work against herb sets with thundurus vs big 6, but again you need to know that it is mental herb. Substitute salamence will also work if you're not going up against big 6, although this is good vs big 6 in bo3 if your opponent is inclined to lead groudon. Lum safeguard cressselia fulfills a similar role to bronzong in setting up safeguard safely and keeps your original 6, also kangaskhan is a great counter to most smeargles since it deals with both sash and herb sets well. If you want sample sets for any of the mons i mentioned feel free to ask
Id like to see that Kang set
Kangaskhan-Mega (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Inner Focus / Scrappy
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 172 Atk / 76 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Double-Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Low Kick
Just a standard set really, lives a low kick from opposing mega kangaskhan, with either inner focus or scrappy depending on how worried you are about gravity leads etc, I normally go inner focus tbf, up to you
I thought a standard set was jolly with 252 in both atk and speed. I figure this set lets it tank certain threats?
Draconid said it lives a Low Kick from opposing Kangaskhan.
Newbie VGC Builder here. Been playing a lot to try to find my playstyle, and I found I like an offensive, controlly style. So this would be "my" first team.
Anyways, here's my RayOgre team :)
Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Water Pulse / Surf
- Flamethrower
- Protect
So a lot of questions here of course. No mega? All special? No priority? What the heck is this?! Now now let me explain myself here. I really valued the weather immunity that this Pokemon brings, and I hated losing it when I mega'd him. I also hated being very restricted on who I bring as my mega, and finally I also hated getting Intimidated and having my, for the most part, 0HKOs turn into 2HKOs, which wasn't great for this mon. So my solution? Special Ray. Dragon Pulse is enough to wipe out most opposing dragons and do neutral STAB to most things. Flamethrower 0HKOs Mawile, Scizor and Ferro fairly reliably. Water Pulse almost always OHKOs 252 HP Groudon, but I've used Surf a bit too and I situationally loved it. Protect is of course important.
Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Protect
This is a fairly standard Kyogre. EVs could always use some work, but I figured I'd get more detailed on EVs once I figure out the Pokemon more at large. Origin Pulse I prefer over Water Spout as I dislike the damage drop. Thunder is for opposing Kyogres as I don't have many answers for that outside of Ferro. Ice Beam handles any drags, genies, etc. that Ray didn't get to/can't get to. Also hits grass and everything else indiscriminately.
Whimsicott (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Taunt
- Tailwind
- Protect
I actually really really like Whimsicott. This is my go-to against Smeargle and most other general-purpose supports that I don't need Fake Out pressure against. Taunt-core I feel is a great move combination that can lock up any misplay an opponent makes into a useless mon. I opted for Tailwind for speed control. I definitely did not want to run this team slow initially due to MegaRay, but as I'm slowly tuning the team, I'm thinking it may not be so bad. I really dislike being fully reliant on it though.
Raichu (M) @ Zap Plate
Ability: Lightning Rod
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Volt Tackle
- Nuzzle
- Feint
This little guy. I really like him. If I'm not taking Whimsicott as my support, I'm taking him. Fake Out is great support for when I need to put on pressure immediately, Volt Tackle handles Kyogre easily, Nuzzle helps with speed control, and feint is such a nice tech-y move that provides so much momentum it's crazy. Also is really good against Thundurus for obvious reasons.
Ferrothorn (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / 180 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Protect
Fairly generic Ferrothorn. I'm not totally sure on it's item, but every Kangashkan I ask seems to hate it, so it's got that going for it. Power Whip to 2hko Kyogre, Gyro Ball to 1hko Xern after Geo, Leech Seed to punish the enemy not having fire, and protect. EVs are enough to kill Xern with Gyro after Geo, and not much more, otherwise it's generic bulk.
Mawile-Mega (F) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Protect
Not only my favourite Mega, but I feel she brings a lot to the table. After looking at the team, I felt I didn't hit dragons and Xern enough, and I was also blisteringly fast overall outside of Ferro. Enter Mawile. Adds Intimidate, 1 shots most fairies, 1 shots most dragons, puts on good Sucker Punch pressure and is tanky to boot. I love this monster.
Problem areas I see:
- No real answer to Dialga or anything else I need to hit with ground as I sort of have none.
- Redirection may be useful, but can't find a good place for it on this team. Redirection for Rayquaza is always appreciated.
- If Whimsicott isn't what I brought and I'm against a Groudon, my speed control is weak.
- Rayquaza's calcs are all very close. If the opponent is running anything more bulky than expected (more than 252 HP), I'm in trouble as most of my calcs will be 2HKO then.
- Amoonguss. I got nothing to 1 shot this terrorshroom. Yes I can taunt it. Yes I can encore it. But if I don't have rayquaza, I ain't moving it.
- Status. I don't have much status on my team besides Nuzzle where I feel like I could.
Things I definitely want to keep:
- Mega Mawile. Love this Pokemon. Even if the overall team identity has to change for it, that's fine.
- I like it's offensive style. Helps me concentrate when I have momentum going strong.
- Taunt-core. I love using these two moves, and I want them someplace, even if they're not on Whimsi.
- Rayquaza. Preferably normal Ray. Doesn't need to be special ray, but I love the weather immunity he grants me amidst this whole "Every team has a Primal" meta. Though I am not as attached to him as Mawile.
Things I want to change/can see changing:
- I really dislike Leech Seed on ferro. My style is so momentum-based that I only really use Leech Seed for style points when I only need 12% to kill something, otherwise it's won me maybe 1/100 games. I really want more.
- Can't decide on Water Pulse or Surf on Ray. Gotta decide.
- Raichu. He's a great poke, but he isn't extremely unique outside of 1shotting Kyogre and Thundurus' hating him.
- Kyogre set. I like it, but there's so many sets that maybe mine is meh.
So yeah. I know this is more of a "RMT" sort of request, but I'm a newbie builder and really want to "settle into" a team and play a lot with it. I think I've found an overall style I like with this team and I really like some mons on it, but I feel like I'm missing a lot. Thanks for any and all help! :)
Anyways, here's my RayOgre team :)
Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Water Pulse / Surf
- Flamethrower
- Protect
So a lot of questions here of course. No mega? All special? No priority? What the heck is this?! Now now let me explain myself here. I really valued the weather immunity that this Pokemon brings, and I hated losing it when I mega'd him. I also hated being very restricted on who I bring as my mega, and finally I also hated getting Intimidated and having my, for the most part, 0HKOs turn into 2HKOs, which wasn't great for this mon. So my solution? Special Ray. Dragon Pulse is enough to wipe out most opposing dragons and do neutral STAB to most things. Flamethrower 0HKOs Mawile, Scizor and Ferro fairly reliably. Water Pulse almost always OHKOs 252 HP Groudon, but I've used Surf a bit too and I situationally loved it. Protect is of course important.
Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Protect
This is a fairly standard Kyogre. EVs could always use some work, but I figured I'd get more detailed on EVs once I figure out the Pokemon more at large. Origin Pulse I prefer over Water Spout as I dislike the damage drop. Thunder is for opposing Kyogres as I don't have many answers for that outside of Ferro. Ice Beam handles any drags, genies, etc. that Ray didn't get to/can't get to. Also hits grass and everything else indiscriminately.
Whimsicott (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Taunt
- Tailwind
- Protect
I actually really really like Whimsicott. This is my go-to against Smeargle and most other general-purpose supports that I don't need Fake Out pressure against. Taunt-core I feel is a great move combination that can lock up any misplay an opponent makes into a useless mon. I opted for Tailwind for speed control. I definitely did not want to run this team slow initially due to MegaRay, but as I'm slowly tuning the team, I'm thinking it may not be so bad. I really dislike being fully reliant on it though.
Raichu (M) @ Zap Plate
Ability: Lightning Rod
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Volt Tackle
- Nuzzle
- Feint
This little guy. I really like him. If I'm not taking Whimsicott as my support, I'm taking him. Fake Out is great support for when I need to put on pressure immediately, Volt Tackle handles Kyogre easily, Nuzzle helps with speed control, and feint is such a nice tech-y move that provides so much momentum it's crazy. Also is really good against Thundurus for obvious reasons.
Ferrothorn (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / 180 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Protect
Fairly generic Ferrothorn. I'm not totally sure on it's item, but every Kangashkan I ask seems to hate it, so it's got that going for it. Power Whip to 2hko Kyogre, Gyro Ball to 1hko Xern after Geo, Leech Seed to punish the enemy not having fire, and protect. EVs are enough to kill Xern with Gyro after Geo, and not much more, otherwise it's generic bulk.
Mawile-Mega (F) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Protect
Not only my favourite Mega, but I feel she brings a lot to the table. After looking at the team, I felt I didn't hit dragons and Xern enough, and I was also blisteringly fast overall outside of Ferro. Enter Mawile. Adds Intimidate, 1 shots most fairies, 1 shots most dragons, puts on good Sucker Punch pressure and is tanky to boot. I love this monster.
Problem areas I see:
- No real answer to Dialga or anything else I need to hit with ground as I sort of have none.
- Redirection may be useful, but can't find a good place for it on this team. Redirection for Rayquaza is always appreciated.
- If Whimsicott isn't what I brought and I'm against a Groudon, my speed control is weak.
- Rayquaza's calcs are all very close. If the opponent is running anything more bulky than expected (more than 252 HP), I'm in trouble as most of my calcs will be 2HKO then.
- Amoonguss. I got nothing to 1 shot this terrorshroom. Yes I can taunt it. Yes I can encore it. But if I don't have rayquaza, I ain't moving it.
- Status. I don't have much status on my team besides Nuzzle where I feel like I could.
Things I definitely want to keep:
- Mega Mawile. Love this Pokemon. Even if the overall team identity has to change for it, that's fine.
- I like it's offensive style. Helps me concentrate when I have momentum going strong.
- Taunt-core. I love using these two moves, and I want them someplace, even if they're not on Whimsi.
- Rayquaza. Preferably normal Ray. Doesn't need to be special ray, but I love the weather immunity he grants me amidst this whole "Every team has a Primal" meta. Though I am not as attached to him as Mawile.
Things I want to change/can see changing:
- I really dislike Leech Seed on ferro. My style is so momentum-based that I only really use Leech Seed for style points when I only need 12% to kill something, otherwise it's won me maybe 1/100 games. I really want more.
- Can't decide on Water Pulse or Surf on Ray. Gotta decide.
- Raichu. He's a great poke, but he isn't extremely unique outside of 1shotting Kyogre and Thundurus' hating him.
- Kyogre set. I like it, but there's so many sets that maybe mine is meh.
So yeah. I know this is more of a "RMT" sort of request, but I'm a newbie builder and really want to "settle into" a team and play a lot with it. I think I've found an overall style I like with this team and I really like some mons on it, but I feel like I'm missing a lot. Thanks for any and all help! :)
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Hey man :)Newbie VGC Builder here. Been playing a lot to try to find my playstyle, and I found I like an offensive, controlly style. So this would be "my" first team.
Anyways, here's my RayOgre team :)
Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Water Pulse / Surf
- Flamethrower
- Protect
So a lot of questions here of course. No mega? All special? No priority? What the heck is this?! Now now let me explain myself here. I really valued the weather immunity that this Pokemon brings, and I hated losing it when I mega'd him. I also hated being very restricted on who I bring as my mega, and finally I also hated getting Intimidated and having my, for the most part, 0HKOs turn into 2HKOs, which wasn't great for this mon. So my solution? Special Ray. Dragon Pulse is enough to wipe out most opposing dragons and do neutral STAB to most things. Flamethrower 0HKOs Mawile, Scizor and Ferro fairly reliably. Water Pulse almost always OHKOs 252 HP Groudon, but I've used Surf a bit too and I situationally loved it. Protect is of course important.
Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Protect
This is a fairly standard Kyogre. EVs could always use some work, but I figured I'd get more detailed on EVs once I figure out the Pokemon more at large. Origin Pulse I prefer over Water Spout as I dislike the damage drop. Thunder is for opposing Kyogres as I don't have many answers for that outside of Ferro. Ice Beam handles any drags, genies, etc. that Ray didn't get to/can't get to. Also hits grass and everything else indiscriminately.
Whimsicott (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Taunt
- Tailwind
- Protect
I actually really really like Whimsicott. This is my go-to against Smeargle and most other general-purpose supports that I don't need Fake Out pressure against. Taunt-core I feel is a great move combination that can lock up any misplay an opponent makes into a useless mon. I opted for Tailwind for speed control. I definitely did not want to run this team slow initially due to MegaRay, but as I'm slowly tuning the team, I'm thinking it may not be so bad. I really dislike being fully reliant on it though.
Raichu (M) @ Zap Plate
Ability: Lightning Rod
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Volt Tackle
- Nuzzle
- Feint
This little guy. I really like him. If I'm not taking Whimsicott as my support, I'm taking him. Fake Out is great support for when I need to put on pressure immediately, Volt Tackle handles Kyogre easily, Nuzzle helps with speed control, and feint is such a nice tech-y move that provides so much momentum it's crazy. Also is really good against Thundurus for obvious reasons.
Ferrothorn (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / 180 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Protect
Fairly generic Ferrothorn. I'm not totally sure on it's item, but every Kangashkan I ask seems to hate it, so it's got that going for it. Power Whip to 2hko Kyogre, Gyro Ball to 1hko Xern after Geo, Leech Seed to punish the enemy not having fire, and protect. EVs are enough to kill Xern with Gyro after Geo, and not much more, otherwise it's generic bulk.
Mawile-Mega (F) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Protect
Not only my favourite Mega, but I feel she brings a lot to the table. After looking at the team, I felt I didn't hit dragons and Xern enough, and I was also blisteringly fast overall outside of Ferro. Enter Mawile. Adds Intimidate, 1 shots most fairies, 1 shots most dragons, puts on good Sucker Punch pressure and is tanky to boot. I love this monster.
Problem areas I see:
- No real answer to Dialga or anything else I need to hit with ground as I sort of have none.
- Redirection may be useful, but can't find a good place for it on this team. Redirection for Rayquaza is always appreciated.
- If Whimsicott isn't what I brought and I'm against a Groudon, my speed control is weak.
- Rayquaza's calcs are all very close. If the opponent is running anything more bulky than expected (more than 252 HP), I'm in trouble as most of my calcs will be 2HKO then.
- Amoonguss. I got nothing to 1 shot this terrorshroom. Yes I can taunt it. Yes I can encore it. But if I don't have rayquaza, I ain't moving it.
- Status. I don't have much status on my team besides Nuzzle where I feel like I could.
Things I definitely want to keep:
- Mega Mawile. Love this Pokemon. Even if the overall team identity has to change for it, that's fine.
- I like it's offensive style. Helps me concentrate when I have momentum going strong.
- Taunt-core. I love using these two moves, and I want them someplace, even if they're not on Whimsi.
- Rayquaza. Preferably normal Ray. Doesn't need to be special ray, but I love the weather immunity he grants me amidst this whole "Every team has a Primal" meta. Though I am not as attached to him as Mawile.
Things I want to change/can see changing:
- I really dislike Leech Seed on ferro. My style is so momentum-based that I only really use Leech Seed for style points when I only need 12% to kill something, otherwise it's won me maybe 1/100 games. I really want more.
- Can't decide on Water Pulse or Surf on Ray. Gotta decide.
- Raichu. He's a great poke, but he isn't extremely unique outside of 1shotting Kyogre and Thundurus' hating him.
- Kyogre set. I like it, but there's so many sets that maybe mine is meh.
So yeah. I know this is more of a "RMT" sort of request, but I'm a newbie builder and really want to "settle into" a team and play a lot with it. I think I've found an overall style I like with this team and I really like some mons on it, but I feel like I'm missing a lot. Thanks for any and all help! :)
This post is probably more suited to the RMT forum, as you have said. You have sufficient decriptions already so you can just pretty much c+p it there. What this gives you is basically a wider range of opinions, so I'll do my best here to diagnose problems and improve the team here but hopefully the rating community can help you out as well over on this forum (just click post new thread). I'll post my rate later on this thread, so I hope I can help you out.
Hey, yeah sorry about that. I saw some fully built teams and partially built teams here and wasn't totally sure of what I was okay to post :$ Thanks again! I'll make a post there.
Hello there.
I have been trying to make a VGC 2016 team consisting of a Primal Groudon + Mega Mewtwo Y core using Gravity so here it is.
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 244 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Rock Slide
- Fire Punch
- Protect
This Primal Groudon is set on abusing Gravity set by Mega Mewtwo Y by using Precipice Blades and Rock Slide for extra accuracy.
Mewtwo-Mega-Y @Mewtwonite Y
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 124 HP / 60 Def / 124 SpA / 20 SpD / 180 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psystrike
- Gravity
- Ice Beam
- Protect
Some caculations:
252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 124 HP / 60 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 160-189 (81.2 - 95.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 124 HP / 20 SpD Mega Mewtwo Y in Heavy Rain: 169-199 (85.7 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 124 HP / 60 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 166-196 (84.2 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Fire Punch vs. 124 HP / 60 Def Mega Mewtwo Y in Harsh Sun: 165-195 (83.7 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mega Mewtwo Y fills its role as a Gravity setter and providing extra coverage for Primal Groudon.
Other than that, I have had lot of trouble creating this team. I even insisted that I use regular Mewtwo rather than X or Y. Is their any insight you guys can give I would gladly appreciate it. Thank you in advance!
I have been trying to make a VGC 2016 team consisting of a Primal Groudon + Mega Mewtwo Y core using Gravity so here it is.
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 244 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Rock Slide
- Fire Punch
- Protect
This Primal Groudon is set on abusing Gravity set by Mega Mewtwo Y by using Precipice Blades and Rock Slide for extra accuracy.
Mewtwo-Mega-Y @Mewtwonite Y
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 124 HP / 60 Def / 124 SpA / 20 SpD / 180 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psystrike
- Gravity
- Ice Beam
- Protect
Some caculations:
252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 124 HP / 60 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 160-189 (81.2 - 95.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 124 HP / 20 SpD Mega Mewtwo Y in Heavy Rain: 169-199 (85.7 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 124 HP / 60 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 166-196 (84.2 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Fire Punch vs. 124 HP / 60 Def Mega Mewtwo Y in Harsh Sun: 165-195 (83.7 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mega Mewtwo Y fills its role as a Gravity setter and providing extra coverage for Primal Groudon.
Other than that, I have had lot of trouble creating this team. I even insisted that I use regular Mewtwo rather than X or Y. Is their any insight you guys can give I would gladly appreciate it. Thank you in advance!
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Mega Mewtwo Y can't hold a Life Orb because it must hold Mewtwonite Y. Even if it could, that would render all the bulk EVs you invested into it relatively useless after 1 round of recoil.Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 124 HP / 60 Def / 124 SpA / 20 SpD / 180 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psystrike
- Gravity
- Ice Beam
- Protect
Some caculations:
252 Atk Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 124 HP / 60 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 160-189 (81.2 - 95.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 124 HP / 20 SpD Mega Mewtwo Y in Heavy Rain: 169-199 (85.7 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 124 HP / 60 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 166-196 (84.2 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Fire Punch vs. 124 HP / 60 Def Mega Mewtwo Y in Harsh Sun: 165-195 (83.7 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mega Mewtwo Y fills its role as a Gravity setter and providing extra coverage for Primal Groudon.
Other than that, I have had lot of trouble creating this team. I even insisted that I use regular Mewtwo rather than X or Y. Is their any insight you guys can give I would gladly appreciate it. Thank you in advance!
Whoops. Don't know how I missed that. Thank you.
- Status