np: ORAS UU Stage 7.1 - What You Know

[dingbat]

Here's my 15¢ regarding zam.

While I don't think zam is inherent... Nevermind, that shit is actually broken ffs, what am I talking about lolololol

Regardless of whether Zam is running sash or LO (life orb is the better of the two imho), an average player like me could easily get this cheeky spoon flexing magician to single-handedly pressure the living shit out of multiple playstyles at once, and a better player can easily translate that to a massive nightmare for the opponent. Ye, it's literally boned by shit like Mega Aero and priority attacks, and it's outsped by every scarfmon in this meta, but this is more of a huge teambuilding strain for builders than it is a huge weakness to zam. Trying to counter Zam defensively is a really risky tactic too; I love how some players try to just whittle Zam down with defensive 'mons like Florges, only to be completely set up on and fed spoonfuls of LO and CM boosted fireballs that straight up melt their souls. In effect, no matter how much pressure opponents try to put on Zam, it's very hard to pull such a feat off without having to either sack one or several 'mons or having some of them crippled or weakened for the rest of the match.

Finally, I get that Zam is definitely not the sole issue, as clearly shown by the suspect ladder's stale-ass shithole that many of us literally struggled to dig out of. However banning Zam is definitely something that needs to happen, and I have absolute doubt that this meta will be better with Zam staying in it.

Alternatively, if you want to read my true thoughts about it...

short and sweet version of what i rlly wanted to say

Every time I see a LO Zam switch in, i swear it's ready to shove its two spoons fully up someone's asshole lol, thing's too fucking savage to stay in this meta and i hope it dies in a hole

 

[Saria]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-uu-stage-7-1-voting.3574705/

 

[pokemonisfun]

A question I would like to have clarification on if someone knows the answer:

Why is a simple majority required for some bans, such as Zam, and a 60% required for others? Also why is a simple majority defined as 51%, when it's really defined as 50% plus one vote? I think it only makes a difference in really large pools but it's a fair question.

 

[Hogg]

What bans are you referring to that required 60%? Every UU public suspect test has always been a 51% majority required. (Council votes, with their much smaller pool of voters, are a different beast entirely.)

 

[pokemonisfun]

Well I was just scrolling through the PR forums and checking out the history of votes and I saw non UU bans that needed 60%. I think it's fair to ask why there is a difference between UU and OU.

Also still asking about 50% + 1 vote vs 51%, I think it can make an actual difference if there are like ~130 voters which I think there are.

 

[zben]

Well I was just scrolling through the PR forums and checking out the history of votes and I saw non UU bans that needed 60%. I think it's fair to ask why there is a difference between UU and OU.

Also still asking about 50% + 1 vote vs 51%, I think it can make an actual difference if there are like ~130 voters which I think there are.

Putting the requirement at 60% can be a good way to indirectly advantage one side , but i dont think the leaders are like that.

 

[pokemonisfun]

Disclaimer: I REALLY trust all staff here. Do not want to start BS conspiracy stuff. I apologize for the trouble I cause for Pidgeot test. Thats all!

 

[DiscoDucky]

Disclaimer: I REALLY trust all staff here. Do not want to start BS conspiracy stuff. I apologize for the trouble I cause for Pidgeot test. Thats all!

Nah, the BS conspiracy stuff probably made more sense during Kokoloko's liberal application of the Kokoloko method.

So, across different accounts, I've racked up over 100 battles in UnderUsed's suspect ladder. From an extremely shallow teambuilding perspective, many checks to Zam are already and are still popular considering the popularity of Sylveon and MScep.

However, the metagame as a whole is very unbalanced. As someone in this thread or the VR thread posted, Balance has been getting worse in this tier, and that in of itself shows a relatively unhealthy metagame via polarization towards either Offense or Stall. A Zam ban would be very good as the first stepping stone to solving this problem. I'm not trying to advocate future suspects, but we should begin locking down problematic Pokemon (i.e. mass suspects) before the tier closes in November.

 

[BuzzkillAmpharos]

After seeing the ladder without Alakazam I'm in favor of banning it. Why you may ask? There's a multitude of Pokemon that I quite simply believe aren't broken but broken together and Zam is one of those threats. Some of the offensive threats need to get out lol. This meta game is really too offensive for any other play style other than HO to function really well. Balance has been made garbage.

Alakazam looks like it'll have to be the mon to take the fall for this one. I don't want to talk about future suspects but for goodness sakes I think one of the dragons (Mence or Hydreigon) needs to go, Sylveon likely to go with them, and maybe even Gyarados. Zam is a really nice start if it gets banned. I really do not want to harbor for suspects but it is really needed. It is NEVER a good thing for a meta to go unbalanced into the next generation.

Alakazam being gone is at least one less threat gone, and that can at least open up doors for some balance teams to emerge without the threat of being encored or taunted. So at least we can take a step towards a balanced meta here.

 

[Saria]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-uu-stage-7-1-voting.3574705/page-5#post-6852291

Alakazam is officially banned from UU. Ladder will be updated soon.

 

[Mega-Pokebattlerz]

Whoa, I actually didn't see that coming. Anyways, I think it's pretty clear that Fighting-types will get better in this Zam-less meta, while Pursuit trappers should see a drop in usage. And now I'll have to use Trick Room Reuniclus for my Psychic sweeper, which is fine since I like using Reuniclus.

 

[Sun]

After the ban of Alakazam we can see that the pursuit trapper users come down in usage, wallbreakers as Infernape and lucario benefit from this ban, becoming much more dangerous, even the balance / stall teams enjoy this ban, because zam using CM and encore was really hard to deal with, in fact the pursuit mega aero stall were created in order to have a countermeasure for zam, putting it offensive pressure (as Weavile stall in OU), pokemon as Cresselia benefit, becoming more and more common, as we have seen during suspect ladder Cresselia benefits from dark-types drop in usage, it is very difficult to deal with if CM; I think nasty plot Azelf can find more space as stallbreaker now that Zam is gone, has more opportunity to set-up, since they run more balance teams; I think that offense has advantages with this ban, Sash Ttwave zam was truly a cancer for offensive builds, could stop mega aero and beat him 1v1, or weaken it and then use a teammate revenge killer to kill him later, same thing with scarf Hydreigon 1v1 situations, last words, I think this ban was fair, made the metagame more balanced "from what I've seen now" we will see in the coming months.

 

[pokemonisfun]

You know I agree with your overall sentiments Eutychios about there being a good bit less pressure in the metagame now but the point on Pursuit Aerodactyl isn't accurate.

The whole idea of using a fast and strong trapper and "safety" Pokemon goes back to at least KG stall in 4th gen with ScarfTar and has been consistently useful since then, Alakazam or not. Aerodactyl and era like are just other iterations of this concept, Aerodactyl in particular was useful before Alakazam in UU stall.

Currently I think Mega Aero is still a great choice for stall if you can spare the Mega Slot - which is hard to do with so many good defensive Megas like Swampert and Steelix and Aggron and the rare Ampharos. At the cost of not being able to counter much (Tornadus and Chandelure are semi exceptions), Mega Aero gives you a safety net to catch something like Heracross and trap Sub CM Chandelure, both dangerous stall breakers. Not only that but it can make your hazards much more effective - Crobat and Salamence are pursuit trapped and can be punished badly with double switches if SR is on the field.

The negatives from the inability to run a mega steel is somewhat mitigated when you realize unnerve normal Aero switches into Belly Drum Slurpuff well and can at least trouble dragons one on one.

The problem with using Mega Aero on stall is really the fact that it's not a wall so it cannot counter much, as well as the Mega opportunity cost. Alakazam leaving does not mean it's suddenly significantly less useful and in the same vein alakazam's presence never necessitated the stone bird's use on stall in the first place. For example Umbreon, Mandibuzz and swampert already served as decent responses if you could avoid switching in on the coverage move.