CAP 22 CAP 22 - Part 2 - Typing Discussion

[Deck Knight]

In this thread we will discuss the typing for CAP22. Our section leader for this segment is Elite Lord Sigma , so for all you mavericks out there, after ELS makes an opening post the discussion will officially begin. Do remember for purposes of this discussion we are making a CAP for the CAP Metagame, so those additional type interactions come into play.

Be sure to pay attention to what he says because he is responsible for directing the discussion and will decide the slate of typing options to be voted on at the culmination of this discussion. Our Topic Leader, sparktrain, will also guide discussions and lead within the thread.

CAP 22 So far:

Topic Leadership Team:

Elite Lord Sigma: Typing
snake_rattler: Ability
Deck Knight: Stats
cbrevan: Moves

Concept:

Name: Last Act of Defiance

General Description: A Pokemon that is defined by its use of the move Parting Shot.

Justification: Parting Shot is another move that's pretty amazing on paper, but its true usage has yet to be fully explored because it's only available to Pangoro. Pangoro is not the most viable Pokemon OU and is nearly unusable in CAP due to its 4x weakness to Fairy. Moreover, when I've used it in RU (prior it to being banned) and UU, I found myself clicking an attacking move more often than not. With the optimal Parting Shot user in the CAP metagame, we may be able to tap into this move's potential and figure out how it is best utilized. Maybe Last Act of Defiance will be a fast Pokemon that aims to keep up offensive momentum. Maybe it'll use the move like it would use Memento to help a teammate use a boosting move. Maybe it'll be a slow, bulky pivot intended to discourage switching. Maybe it'll do something completely different.

This falls under both actualization and archetype in terms of being a concept. In terms of actualization, it will teach us how to use Parting Shot "properly." Clearly, no other Pokemon, not even Pangoro, comes close to it. Well, users of U-turn, Volt Switch, and Memento come somewhat close, but even then, we'll be able to see what makes Parting Shot different from (and possibly better than) them. In terms of archetype, Last Act of Defiance will give not just the CAP metagame, but also the whole game of Pokemon, a utility Pokemon that we've never seen before, as Parting Shot was not (and still isn't) one of Pangoro's most important assets. Because Parting Shot has so many potential uses, a utility Pokemon such as this can be the ultimate team player for offensive and defensive archetypes alike.

Questions To Be Answered:
- Whether it's pivoting, offensive momentum, Memento-esque support, or something else, what is the "ideal" way to use Parting Shot? Why?
- Considering Pangoro rarely finds the time to use the move, how much should a Pokemon be willing to sacrifice another offensive option for Parting Shot?
- What makes Parting Shot different or similar from Volt Switch, U-turn, and Memento?
- Pangoro is definitely not the ideal Parting Shot user, so what does the ideal user look like?
- What strategies, whether they be certain Pokemon, playstyles, or other factors, will rise to prominence to combat a Parting Shot user?

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General Guidelines:
Listen to the TLT Typing Leader and the Topic Leader.
Do Not Polljump: poll jumping is a serious offense in these threads, and you can get infracted for it. Poll jumping is when you discuss something that should be discussed in the future, like specifying a CAP's stats or specific coverage moves. You're allowed to hint at such things to conclude a point or to provide an example, but do not centralize your post on a poll jump. Poll jumping hurts the focus of early threads and can cause us to go off on a tangent. If you're not sure if you're poll jumping or not, err on the side of caution and don't post it.

 

[Elite Lord Sigma]

Hello, everyone. I am Elite Lord Sigma, the Typing Leader for CAP 22. Before we begin, let's review the closing post of the Concept Assessment thread.

The overall reduction of damage provided by Parting Shot is an incredibly important point to consider when it comes to the effectiveness of FPS vs SPS, and looking back at one of our starting questions (what is the ideal way to use Parting Shot?), I find it important for us to focus towards this as we move forward. As such, we should aim towards making CAP 22 a relatively fast user of the move that has methods of forcing out the opposition, be it through offensive presence, support/utility options, or some combination thereof. Having a faster Parting Shot user will allow us to place a greater emphasis on CAP 22's offensive typing, as opposed to a slower user which would need to be more heavily geared towards being able to tank hits before using Parting Shot.

As such, the assessment leaves a wide berth for potential typings. However, this does not mean just any typing can be thrown out and taken seriously as a suggestion. Useful posts should keep in mind the parameters outlined above and explain how such a potential typing may be useful in making CAP 22 and its use of Parting Shot worthwhile. Basing arguments on knowledge of the CAP metagame is strongly encouraged here, as it would not be desirable for CAP 22 to have a typing that is not viable for a pivot in the CAP metagame. I look forward to the discussion proper.

EDIT: A few ground rules.

First off, do not post lists of typings. Each post should be limited to one or two typings at most.

Secondly, any post that does not follow the guidelines outlined here or that fails to give proper justification for a typing suggestion will be moderated and/or deleted. You have been warned.

 

[Alfalfa]

Losing to Bisharp is far too costly for a Parting Shot user; if Bisharp gets hit with Parting Shot, it essentially gets a +3 boost to its attack, which is very difficult for opposing teams to stomach considering what Pokemon is getting the boost. I do not like Dark / Fairy because while it 4x resists Sucker Punch, it does not have an innate way of forcing out Bisharp. We could discuss typing and movepool to handle it, but I think having a way to pressure Bisharp from the get-go should be our first priority.

 

[DarkSlay]

Considering the decision to roll with a First Person Shooter Fast Parting Shot (FPS) direction, I'm going to throw my support behind Ice/Fighting.

An FPS concept practically begs to be used as some sort of offensive pivot, whether it's for a VoltTurn team or on a team where it's giving some help with "pre-set-up support". You're going to want to focus on things that can normally stop offensive momentum for those kinds of teams, which tend to be Pokemon like Bulky Grounds or strong Steel types (Landorus-T, Garchomp, etc.). Furthermore, you're also going to want to be able to switch in at specific times and draw in specific Pokemon, so providing some offensive presence and having clear, determinable weaknesses is a boon for offensive momentum and forcing the opponent to play predictably.

Ice is a superb offensive type that hits a ton of the current metagame's threats effectively. Dragons and Grounds, two very powerful types in the metagame, don't like it one bit and are forced to switch out just by type association. Weavile is a good example of an Ice-type that can force a lot of switches, although this CAP should hopefully be focusing on pivoting and putting partners in advantageous positions.

Fighting, on the other hand, is also a good typing that hits a lot of standard momentum-stoppers for good damage. Provides great offensive and pivot synergy with Ice, including giving Ice a Rock neutrality and threatening Steels.

Notably, an Ice/Fighting type has common weaknesses to a few things in the metagame, most notably some popular priority attacks and Fairy-type attacks. However, as a Pokemon who is relying on getting in on certain threats and forcing switches, switch-ins to deal with Ice/Fighting become less relevant, especially Pokemon who rely on weak priority moves (which will be weakened further thanks to Parting Shot).

Ideally, we're looking for a Pokemon who doesn't just use Parting Shot well individually, but can actually apply the move to a team structure /effectively/. It's not just about what makes sense with Parting Shot, but what makes sense with the Pokemon that like that -1 Atk/-1 SpA drop AND would like pressure to deal with specific threats in the metagame.

 

[Mova]

Taking only competitive gameplay into account, I would have to agree with any suggestions with a combination with Dark or Ice, such as the Dark / Fairy or Ice / Fighting listed above.

We're going in the fast direction, and both types can stab things quickly and leave. Pun intended. A Dark resistance if very valuable on a speedy Pokémon, since a Parting Shot user can be hit by Pursuit before switching out. Dark / Fairy hits everything relevant for at least neutral damage, other than that notorious key ring. It has an elemental advantage against Cyclohm, Colossoil, Tomohawk, and Aurumoth as well.

 

[Project_Mars]

I think having more of a focus on a stellar defensive typing that can come in on a large number of threats would serve PS'mon a lot better in the long run compared to an overly amazing attack typing. Giving PS'mon a wider variety of switch in opportunities lets it come in a lot more so it can spread status or grind down the opposition before dashing out while weakening the counter. Not to say that the two are mutually exclusive, I just think that making sure PS'mon can get in easier is a bit more desirable. Another desirable trait would be an immunity to status, especially Paralysis. We want to ensure PS'mon can outspeed most things, so preventing it from getting hamstrung by a Thunder Wave would be good.

Keeping those in mind, two typings that have struck me as good choices are: Water/Steel and Electric/Steel. Both have a plethora of resistances and good coverage on top threats and in general. Water/Steel is just 2x weak to three types (Fighting, Electric, and Ground) while Electric/Steel is 2x weak to two types (Fire and Fighting) and 4x weak to a third (Ground) but possesses an important Paralysis immunity. Steel-typing allows both to cover Fairies and Crucibelle, with the Fairy-type coverage (and resistance) being a large reason both suggestions include it, however a weakness to Tomohawk and Colossoil is less than desirable. Water-typing would be useful against MegaZards, Garchomp, and Lando-T while making Colossoil think twice about switching in. Electric-typing would trade those for Cawmodore, Manaphy, and Tornadus-T while making Keldeo and Tomohawk think twice about switching in.

 

[jjay554]

Through discussion, using usage statics, and type charts, I have come to the conclusion that Ice/Ground would be an optimal typing for the pokemon we are aiming for.

With an offensive pivot it needs the ability to check many of the the top pokemon whilst being able to switch in fairly freely. The ground typing coupled with ice allows it to take neutral damage from stealth rocks, and has unresisted stab coverage! (outside of surskit) Ice is also handy along side ground in that it hits most pokemon that are immune to ground super effectively. As far as specific pokemon that this combination hits hard there are: Hetran, Garchomp, Landorous, Bisharp, Latios, and Excadril. (5/10 of the top pokemon by usage).

While this typing is weak to common FWG attacks, it can slightly make up for this through parting shot. There isn't much to speak about defensively, as it only resists poison and is immune to electric.

 

[SHSP]

I find myself agreeing a lot with the idea Ununhexium posted in the concept assement thread, with the idea of a fast, offensive pokemon built around forcing switches by virtue of its strong STAB(s). For me, the typing came down to a few points: strong STABs that have good coverage to force switches, synergy with sweepers, and also the idea that getting this mon in fits an offensive idea. I'd like to suggest Ground/Flying as a typing.

Both types fit the strong STAB argument, with ground having the ability to threaten the abundance of poison/steel/rock types that exist in the metagame, such as Crucibelle, Mega-Diancie and Mega-Metagross, and Flying being able to hit types like fighting and grass, as well as huge threats such as Tomohawk, Aurumoth and Keldeo. Between the two types, they also give good switch in opportunities, as mons such as Landorus-T, Cawmodore, and Stratagem are immune to ground and resist flying, giving the opponent a defined reason to switch out against this mon. Side note- Ground also threatens Bisharp, which as mentioned earlier, is a massive problem with parting shot.

In terms of type synergy with other sweepers, I can use another pivot that currently exists to show it. Landorus-T often carries U-turn, and though it lacks reliable flying type STAB, the virtue of being immune to two types, electric and ground, often helps teams deal with weaknesses to those types quite well. I know often times Lando runs a bulkier set with rocks, but the scarf set in particular often fits this idea quite well, coming in on a predicted eq, forcing a switch and u-turning out. A side note as well- the bearing of sharing the same type as Lando makes it easy to compare the two- this mon would have flying moves over lando, as well as making it easier for sweepers to set up through parting shot. Lando however could fill more roles, such as bulky lead, double dance, and rock setter then this mon's one track idea of offensive pivot.

Getting this mon into the game in the first place is an interesting piece. Its two immunities to common attacking types in electric and ground can make it easy, but it lacks many resists, only resisting bug, poison and fighting, although they are common types as well. It's weaknesses, a 4 times weakness to ice and a regular weakness to water, make it difficult to switch in on common mons like Syclant, Keldeo and Manaphy, as well as leaving it weak to common moves like Scald and Ice Beam/Punch, and an offensive pivot doesn't appreciate getting worn down by strong neutral hits either. With the idea of parting shot and pivoting, the major place it's weaknesses imply are what mons it invites in, as well as what it can switch in on. It also is neutral to rocks, allowing it to switch in multiple times instead of taking a lot every time it switches in from rocks+being hit.

 

[Birkal]

MOD POST

I had wished this would go without saying, but the moderation team has needed to delete multiple posts that disregard the rules. Namely, we do not consider flavor for CAP22 in our competitive stages. Parting Shot is a Dark-type move, but that does not mean that CAP22 should also be Dark-type. It is not our concern to take flavor into consideration at this time. In fact, our flavor gurus always do a fantastic job of making our Pokemon make sense in later stages. For now, please keep all arguments solely about the competitive CAP metagame. If you are uncomfortable with doing that, I would recommend lurking a bit more and joining us in the CAP Project Room on Pokemon Showdown for further discussion.

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/capproject

 

[boxofkangaroos]

Because the CAP should ideally have both offensive and supportive presence in addition to Parting Shot, a moveset such as Parting Shot, STAB, STAB, Utility would make sense and be quite effective. Therefore it is important that the CAP has strong offensive STABs that can: a) be used with a third coverage move to counter more Pokemon (offensive), or b) be used with a utility move other than Parting Shot to provide support for its team (supportive). Because of this, I think Dark/Fairy or Ghost/Fairy would be great typings. Both of these are fantastic offensive typings, the former only resisted by Klefki and the latter not resisted by anything relevant.

 

[Project_Mars]

I'm going to get flamed with comments disagreeing with what I'm going to say, so just please listen. Since Parting Shot is a move that lowers the Attack and Special Attack of the target while forcing the user out, I have a feeling a slow, bulky Pokemon can take advantage of it, and for that I choose Ghost/Normal. A Ghost/Normal type would have three natural immunities to Normal, Fighting and Ghost, making it a solid check to many Ghost types. On top of that, Ghost resists Bug, making it a nice check or possibly even counter to Syclant, depending on its stats. Because of these two types together, a Ghost/Normal type would only be weak to Dark. With these type advantages, it checks Tomohawk, Syclant, and Gengar not running Dark Pulse. A Ghost/Normal type could also force in powerful Dark types such as Bisharp and Colossoil, cripple them with Parting Shot, and send in a counter or check to them. With these Dark types, removed, the Ghost/Normal type could run over the opponents entire team by either being an unstoppable wall, or with offensive prowess alone, due to how good the Ghost type is offensively. Please consider before flaming.

The main problem with a slow Parting Shot 'mon is that it would have to inherently be super defensive, or else it can really only do its job once or twice. The main issue with deliberately trying to make Bisharp a switch-in for PS'mon is the fact that it would be at +3 after a successful Parting Shot. Not the most optimal of plays unless your switch-in can reliably scare it away. And combining the two means that you invite a major threat that gets very strong after you Parting Shot out... Assuming it survives the hit in the first place. (Highly likely if you parting shot on a predicted switch... But why care how fast or slow it is if you plan on doing that?)

I do like Ground/Ice and Ground/Flying. In terms of the latter, despite U-Turn being fairly different to Parting Shot, I'm sure we can use Lando-T for some inspiration on where to go.

 

[Imanalt]

Considering the decision to roll with a First Person Shooter Fast Parting Shot (FPS) direction, I'm going to throw my support behind Ice/Fighting.

An FPS concept practically begs to be used as some sort of offensive pivot, whether it's for a VoltTurn team or on a team where it's giving some help with "pre-set-up support". You're going to want to focus on things that can normally stop offensive momentum for those kinds of teams, which tend to be Pokemon like Bulky Grounds or strong Steel types (Landorus-T, Garchomp, etc.). Furthermore, you're also going to want to be able to switch in at specific times and draw in specific Pokemon, so providing some offensive presence and having clear, determinable weaknesses is a boon for offensive momentum and forcing the opponent to play predictably.

Ice is a superb offensive type that hits a ton of the current metagame's threats effectively. Dragons and Grounds, two very powerful types in the metagame, don't like it one bit and are forced to switch out just by type association. Weavile is a good example of an Ice-type that can force a lot of switches, although this CAP should hopefully be focusing on pivoting and putting partners in advantageous positions.

Fighting, on the other hand, is also a good typing that hits a lot of standard momentum-stoppers for good damage. Provides great offensive and pivot synergy with Ice, including giving Ice a Rock neutrality and threatening Steels.

Notably, an Ice/Fighting type has common weaknesses to a few things in the metagame, most notably some popular priority attacks and Fairy-type attacks. However, as a Pokemon who is relying on getting in on certain threats and forcing switches, switch-ins to deal with Ice/Fighting become less relevant, especially Pokemon who rely on weak priority moves (which will be weakened further thanks to Parting Shot).

Ideally, we're looking for a Pokemon who doesn't just use Parting Shot well individually, but can actually apply the move to a team structure /effectively/. It's not just about what makes sense with Parting Shot, but what makes sense with the Pokemon that like that -1 Atk/-1 SpA drop AND would like pressure to deal with specific threats in the metagame.

We discussed this on ps, but i think you didn't fully emphasize why this is such a good type. The primary niche for fast parting shot will be on volt-turn teams, that seems pretty obvious. Because of this, the best way we will make our mon be a fast parting shot user will be by making it fit well on those voltturn teams. Ice/fighting threatens the biggest problems to voltturn, in the form of ferrothorn/landorus-t/garchomp better than any other typing that isn't horribly weak to stealthrock. Ice/fighting also gives us good ability to force out a lot of mons without needing a ton of coverage moves, which is really important.

I think having more of a focus on a stellar defensive typing that can come in on a large number of threats would serve PS'mon a lot better in the long run compared to an overly amazing attack typing. Giving PS'mon a wider variety of switch in opportunities lets it come in a lot more so it can spread status or grind down the opposition before dashing out while weakening the counter. Not to say that the two are mutually exclusive, I just think that making sure PS'mon can get in easier is a bit more desirable. Another desirable trait would be an immunity to status, especially Paralysis. We want to ensure PS'mon can outspeed most things, so preventing it from getting hamstrung by a Thunder Wave would be good.

Keeping those in mind, two typings that have struck me as good choices are: Water/Steel and Electric/Steel. Both have a plethora of resistances and good coverage on top threats and in general. Water/Steel is just 2x weak to three types (Fighting, Electric, and Ground) while Electric/Steel is 2x weak to two types (Fire and Fighting) and 4x weak to a third (Ground) but possesses an important Paralysis immunity. Steel-typing allows both to cover Fairies and Crucibelle, with the Fairy-type coverage (and resistance) being a large reason both suggestions include it, however a weakness to Tomohawk and Colossoil is less than desirable. Water-typing would be useful against MegaZards, Garchomp, and Lando-T while making Colossoil think twice about switching in. Electric-typing would trade those for Cawmodore, Manaphy, and Tornadus-T while making Keldeo and Tomohawk think twice about switching in.

I like a lot of your thinking about being able to switch in, but we aren't going to be a fast mon that also is bulky enough to switch in a lot and strong enough to force things out with neutral moves. Thats not a plausible set up for a mon that isn't broken as shit. So we need to prioritize. Your typings really don't allow us to force enough relevant threats out easily with super effective stab, and so it will be too desirable for opponents to just stay in as we parting shot a lot of the time. I like this line of thinking overall though, and if you can come up with a good defensive type that can threaten more relevant things more naturally (especially things that voltturn struggles with) this could definitely go somewhere.

I find myself agreeing a lot with the idea Ununhexium posted in the concept assement thread, with the idea of a fast, offensive pokemon built around forcing switches by virtue of its strong STAB(s). For me, the typing came down to a few points: strong STABs that have good coverage to force switches, synergy with sweepers, and also the idea that getting this mon in fits an offensive idea. I'd like to suggest Ground/Flying as a typing.

Both types fit the strong STAB argument, with ground having the ability to threaten the abundance of poison/steel/rock types that exist in the metagame, such as Crucibelle, Mega-Diancie and Mega-Metagross, and Flying being able to hit types like fighting and grass, as well as huge threats such as Tomohawk, Aurumoth and Keldeo. Between the two types, they also give good switch in opportunities, as mons such as Landorus-T, Cawmodore, and Stratagem are immune to ground and resist flying, giving the opponent a defined reason to switch out against this mon. Side note- Ground also threatens Bisharp, which as mentioned earlier, is a massive problem with parting shot.

In terms of type synergy with other sweepers, I can use another pivot that currently exists to show it. Landorus-T often carries U-turn, and though it lacks reliable flying type STAB, the virtue of being immune to two types, electric and ground, often helps teams deal with weaknesses to those types quite well. I know often times Lando runs a bulkier set with rocks, but the scarf set in particular often fits this idea quite well, coming in on a predicted eq, forcing a switch and u-turning out. A side note as well- the bearing of sharing the same type as Lando makes it easy to compare the two- this mon would have flying moves over lando, as well as making it easier for sweepers to set up through parting shot. Lando however could fill more roles, such as bulky lead, double dance, and rock setter then this mon's one track idea of offensive pivot.

Getting this mon into the game in the first place is an interesting piece. Its two immunities to common attacking types in electric and ground can make it easy, but it lacks many resists, only resisting bug, poison and fighting, although they are common types as well. It's weaknesses, a 4 times weakness to ice and a regular weakness to water, make it difficult to switch in on common mons like Syclant, Keldeo and Manaphy, as well as leaving it weak to common moves like Scald and Ice Beam/Punch, and an offensive pivot doesn't appreciate getting worn down by strong neutral hits either. With the idea of parting shot and pivoting, the major place it's weaknesses imply are what mons it invites in, as well as what it can switch in on. It also is neutral to rocks, allowing it to switch in multiple times instead of taking a lot every time it switches in from rocks+being hit.

any ground/flying parting shot pivot would have a very very hard time not being outclassed by landog. Its just too good of a pokemon and too good of a pivot for us to really want to be trying to compete with it. Much better would be a mon that synergizes well with it rather than competition for it

Because the CAP should ideally have both offensive and supportive presence in addition to Parting Shot, a moveset such as Parting Shot, STAB, STAB, Utility would make sense and be quite effective. Therefore it is important that the CAP has strong offensive STABs that can: a) be used with a third coverage move to counter more Pokemon (offensive), or b) be used with a utility move other than Parting Shot to provide support for its team (supportive). Because of this, I think Dark/Fairy or Ghost/Fairy would be great typings. Both of these are fantastic offensive typings, the former only resisted by Klefki and the latter not resisted by anything relevant.

Why should it do support things? There isn't a real reason i can see for this. Also hiting things for neutral is great, but we won't ohko a lot of things with neutral stabs, and if we only do 70% the risk/reward of staying in as we parting shot is way better for the opponent. We really want to be able to actually kill threats to better generate momentum.

 

[Magistrum]

So uh hey. I rarely contribute to competitive side of CAP aside from votes, but I guess I'll suggest Ground/Fairy as a potential typing.

Ground/Fairy
Weaknesses: Grass, Ice, Steel, Water
Resistances: Bug, Dark, Fighting, Rock
Immunities: Dragon, Electric

Pros:
+This typing's STAB coverage has the potential to singlehandedly scare all the Gen6 CAPs so far (Volkraken, Plasmanta, Naviathan, Crucibelle) as well as CAP meta's ever-popular Tomohawk-Colossoil-Cyclohm core.
+A Fairy-type not weak to Poison is a relief since the CAP meta has more poison-type moves being thrown around compared to OU.
+Ground typing means that Bisharp will think twice before switching in to take advantage of Parting Shot, fearing a potential Earthquake/Earth Power.
+Stealth Rock/Pursuit resistance is a very nice thing to have for a pivot.
+Electric immunity is great because it significantly decreases the opportunities for CAP22 to get paralyzed and retain its fast Parting Shot throughout the battle (unless of course you face something with static, stun spore, glare, body slam, etc).

Cons:
-All four weaknesses are quite common in the CAP meta.
-Scald weakness is quite hindering, as well as Aqua Jet/Ice Shard among other things. Although, taking an opponent's priority attack before using Parting Shot would ensure your other pokemon will safely switch in along with the stat drop inflicted on the opponent.
-While it checks Bisharp with a Ground STAB, this means Flying-types and Levitators like Rotom-W or Landorus-T might get a free switch-in.

In my opinion, being able to pivot on top of scaring off various significant threats in the CAP meta is Ground/Fairy's main selling point.

Just my two cents. :)

 

[Alfalfa]

When considering CAP 22, Bisharp needs to be innately pressured by it so as to avoiding into a Parting Shot, for very few Pokemon can deal with a +3 Bisharp. We also want this CAP to have super effective STABs against Tomohawk, Tornadus-T, Azumarill, Keldeo, and numerous other offensive threats, particularly offensive threats. For that reason, I recommend Electric / Fighting as our CAP's typing. Electric / Fighting resists Bisharp's STABs and has good coverage against most of the CAP metagame, hitting important Pokemon like Ferrothorn, Bisharp, Tomohawk, Colossoil, and Tornadus-T. All of these mentioned Pokemon hold significant leverage over offensive teams, especially Tomohawk and Ferrothorn which tend to be strong checks to Pokemon that would want to be supported by Parting Shot, such as Bisharp, Serperior, and Mega Altaria. In addition, with the exception of Fidgit and Amoonguss, most of the Pokemon that resist Electric / Fighting despise Parting Shot, even if they are running defensive sets, as most of these mons rely on their offenses to force out the Pokemon they check; with the drops from Parting Shot, most of these mons that would switch into an Electric / Fighting Pokemon wind up being set-up fodder for Pokemon that do not care about status, except for Landorus-T, who is not difficult to account for to begin with.

 

[reachzero]

Everyone so far has addressed the importance of having efficient offensive typing, since this Pokemon should really have good two-move and outstanding three-move coverage. However, I feel that several other factors should also be taken into account.

Parting Shot's interactions with Pursuit
Since our goal is to successfully use a fast Parting Shot, we cannot ignore the fact that Pursuit will hit CAP22 for full power. If CAP22 is weak to Pursuit, this will be a crippling weakness. If it is neutral to Pursuit, this will hurt, but not be fatal. This means that a type that is threatened out by Colossoil or Bisharp is an unusually bad idea, and most preferably we would want a type that resists Dark.

Pivots have to be able to pivot into certain safe switches
Parting Shot is a move that doesn't do damage, so you don't want use it on a Pokemon that will only come in once or twice. If you have to work hard to get CAP22 in, Parting Shot won't be impactful enough to be worth it. in other words, for Parting Shot to make sense, CAP22 must have a significantly useful defensive type. This also means that choosing a Stealth Rock-weak type is an unusually bad idea for this concept.

Being stopped by Tomohawk and Mega Sableye is a really bad idea
Tomohawk's Prankster ensures that it can Taunt, Toxic or even Nature Power CAP22 before it uses Parting Shot, all of which would be undesirable scenarios. Mega Sableye's Magic Bounce means it doesn't care at all about Parting Shot's drops, and its attacks (Will-o-Wisp and Knock Off) do nasty things to pretty much anything you would want to pivot to. In a perfect scenario, CAP22 beats both of these Pokemon.

All three of these factors favor Fairy types, and indeed I believe almost any combination involving Fairy has a good chance to be successful. However, I don't believe any other type is strictly necessary to combine with Fairy, pure Fairy is just fine. The basic reasoning is that Fairy is only resisted by Poison, Fire and Steel, which means that all you need for good coverage is either a Fire or Ground coverage move, and really non-STAB Fire and/or Ground coverage is sufficient. I feel that Fairy is an especially good typing for this because Parting Shot + Magnezone is a wonderful use of the concept.

In terms of offensive potency, it is hard to argue with Fairy/Ground, which is only resisted by Skarmory, Cawmodore and Talonflame, but I don't like how it eliminates many of the Steel types that would switch in immediately, which otherwise would be better set-up targets for Cawmodore or Magnezone bait. I also don't like the fact that it complicates switching into Latios, which has a strong chance of having Surf or Grass Knot. Fairy/Dark does sound good because although Dark typing subtracts rather than adds from CAP22 defensively, Knock Off is generally a great move for a pivot. However, I don't think that Dark does enough offensively to make up for the loss of the Fighting and especially Bug resists that pure Fairy has if CAP22 is specially rather than physically oriented, which obviously we don't know yet.

Fighting combinations (Ice/Fighting is tempting) do resist Dark and Stealth Rock, which is great, but may have more issues against Tomohawk and especially Mega Sableye, which I think could be a problem. They also tend to lack the great resistances that Fairy has to offer, and compound the extremely common CAP weaknesses to Flying and Psychic.

In short, I thinking pure Fairy or Fairy/Dark would be the best typings to make CAP22 successful.

 

[Ignus]

During concept assessment, we stated that generally, a faster parting shot user is going to use the move to its fullest more consistently than it's slower counterparts. Therefore, the very first thing we should be asking ourselves is 'is this typing supporting us being faster than the opponent?'

If we're considering the fact that we definitely should be faster than the opponent, we should be discouraging enemy priority moves. Actual offensive presence, I think, should actually come second to this - there's plenty of ways to boost our actual offensive ability that aren't related to STABs. This means resisting most or all strong priority in the CAP metagame, including Bullet Punch from Scizor or Cawmodore. Our primary goal should be making sure our counters are generally slower than us and won't be willing to try to hit us as we Parting Shot out.
This is actually the reason I disagree with Ice/Fighting - sure, it has really strong coverage - but the steel and fighting weaknesses are something we probably shouldn't be giving up. Being weak to priority defeats the whole purpose of us choosing a faster parting shot build in the first place.

The idea that we shouldn't be being hit on the way out means we should also be resisting pursuit - much like priority, it will hit us when we try to leave. Pursuit users oftentimes carry Sucker Punch too (like Colossoil and Bisharp), meaning just offensively threatening the users most likely won't be enough.

Outside of resisting priority, having some sort of immunity or quad resist is extremely useful for giving CAP actual switch in opportunities - if we're investing heavily in speed, regardless of actual stat spread, our EVs are going to force us to be less bulky. Having those switch in opportunities regardless of our bulk seriously helps our 'hit and run' play-style.

Considering these points, our typing should defensively:

• Resist Dark (Pursuit / Sucker Punch Combo)
• Resist Steel (Bullet Punch)
• Potentially Resist Fighting, Normal, or Ghost (Mach Punch from random fighting types, Quick Attack / Fake Out from MLop and friends, Shadow Sneak from Kitsunoh/Rev/Necturna)
• Have some sort of Immunity or Quad Resist.

~~~~

Offensively, having at least one spammable STAB is extremely important - Knock Off or Scald, for example, are great moves that have high utility and relatively high BP. Having a second type with situational coverage would be nice, but not necessary. Access to a utility move can easily replace a secondary STAB, so it just depends on if we want to move in more of a utility direction or a offensive direction.

I have a bigger post I'm writing for actually putting forward a type, but I wanted to make sure that people start thinking about this stuff before actually suggesting types. It's important and stuff :d

 

[NumberCruncher]

So uh hey. I rarely contribute to competitive side of CAP aside from votes, but I guess I'll suggest Ground/Fairy as a potential typing.

Ground/Fairy
Weaknesses: Grass, Ice, Steel, Water
Resistances: Bug, Dark, Fighting, Rock
Immunities: Dragon, Electric

Pros:
+This typing's STAB coverage has the potential to singlehandedly scare all the Gen6 CAPs so far (Volkraken, Plasmanta, Naviathan, Crucibelle) as well as CAP meta's ever-popular Tomohawk-Colossoil-Cyclohm core.
+A Fairy-type not weak to Poison is a relief since the CAP meta has more poison-type moves being thrown around compared to OU.
+Ground typing means that Bisharp will think twice before switching in to take advantage of Parting Shot, fearing a potential Earthquake/Earth Power.
+Stealth Rock/Pursuit resistance is a very nice thing to have for a pivot.
+Electric immunity is great because it significantly decreases the opportunities for CAP22 to get paralyzed and retain its fast Parting Shot throughout the battle (unless of course you face something with static, stun spore, glare, body slam, etc).

Cons:
-All four weaknesses are quite common in the CAP meta.
-Scald weakness is quite hindering, as well as Aqua Jet/Ice Shard among other things. Although, taking an opponent's priority attack before using Parting Shot would ensure your other pokemon will safely switch in along with the stat drop inflicted on the opponent.
-While it checks Bisharp with a Ground STAB, this means Flying-types and Levitators like Rotom-W or Landorus-T might get a free switch-in.

In my opinion, being able to pivot on top of scaring off various significant threats in the CAP meta is Ground/Fairy's main selling point.

Just my two cents. :)

I'm going to further add to this argument, since I also heavily support Ground/Fairy as typing. So the first thing we need to address what mon Parting Shot is absolutely no good at addressing. Firstly, if we're using this as a Fast Pivot, any slow pivot can have free reign to turn on us and completely dodge consequence. In this way, having a mon that resists U-Turn and is immune to Volt Switch heavily punishes this sort of strategy from a slower mon, as they take a bunch of unnecessary damage for a bad prediction. The second mon Parting shot doesn't impact are walls. Things like Cyclohm, Fidgit, or a Sableye that has yet to Mega Evolve are very unlikely to be bothered by the stat drop, as they still serve the purpose they need to serve even with the stat drop. Therefore, this CAP needs to be really good at stallbreaking, and there aren't many better stallbreaking typings in this format than Ground/Fairy, with Ground ripping through the defensive Steel and Poison types that litter CAP like a Pittsburgh gas station, and Fairy dealing with the Big Three.

 

[snake]

Short post, I'll post more later when I'm at my computer.

I'm throwing my support onto Ground/Fairy. It gets great neutral coverage across the metagame, which lets CAP22 afford to run status move (like Taunt to stallbreak maybe) over a coverage move. Obviously Parting Shot will take up the fourth slot after STABS and the status move.

 

[Imanalt]

I was going to wait on this for a bit but i want to cut off some of this fairy hype quickly. Its just a generic good type, not a great type for us

Everyone so far has addressed the importance of having efficient offensive typing, since this Pokemon should really have good two-move and outstanding three-move coverage. However, I feel that several other factors should also be taken into account.

Parting Shot's interactions with Pursuit
Since our goal is to successfully use a fast Parting Shot, we cannot ignore the fact that Pursuit will hit CAP22 for full power. If CAP22 is weak to Pursuit, this will be a crippling weakness. If it is neutral to Pursuit, this will hurt, but not be fatal. This means that a type that is threatened out by Colossoil or Bisharp is an unusually bad idea, and most preferably we would want a type that resists Dark.

If we are neutral to pursuit we're getting hit by an 80 power -1 neutral move. That is not a real issue. Being weak to pursuit would be unfortunate if we can't threaten colossoil, but other than that I dont think pursuit is a big issue.

Pivots have to be able to pivot into certain safe switches
Parting Shot is a move that doesn't do damage, so you don't want use it on a Pokemon that will only come in once or twice. If you have to work hard to get CAP22 in, Parting Shot won't be impactful enough to be worth it. in other words, for Parting Shot to make sense, CAP22 must have a significantly useful defensive type. This also means that choosing a Stealth Rock-weak type is an unusually bad idea for this concept.

I agree with the sr weakness point, but the primary thing i disagree with is that I dont think a parting shot mon will be good at creating its own momentum, because its just being asked to do too much. Its better at turning momentum into a larger advantage than it is at creating it from nothing. This is why fast parting shot is at its best on voltturn teams, which will naturally give our parting shot mon better switch ins (basically if we wanted a pure pivot, we should have gone with slow parting shot).

Being stopped by Tomohawk and Mega Sableye is a really bad idea
Tomohawk's Prankster ensures that it can Taunt, Toxic or even Nature Power CAP22 before it U-Turns, all of which would be undesirable scenarios. Mega Sableye's Magic Bounce means it doesn't care at all about Parting Shot's drops, and its attacks (Will-o-Wisp and Knock Off) do nasty things to pretty much anything you would want to pivot to. In a perfect scenario, CAP22 beats both of these Pokemon.

I don't disagree on tomohawk, although it could just be a mon we don't come in on and then click parting shot as it switches in. You don't seem to understand the interaction between parting shot and magic bounce though. If we use parting shot on a magic bounce pokemon, we get -1/-1 and the magic bounce mon is forced out. That is not ideal for us, but its also not the end of the world at all. Beating mega sableye would be nice, but voltturn already has a lot of good tools to pressure mega sableye.

Not gonna quote the rest of your post, but basically I dont think fairy does the good things you say it does, and it also doesn't force switches that well, which is the prime thing a fast parting shot user has to do. We need to have a lot of mons that if we are in on them, they will be forced to either switch out or risk dying, and fairy type just doesnt do that for us.


For the people arguing ground/fairy the same logic basically applies, but it also means we will be heavily competing for a slot on a team with landorus-t, which is such a good momentum mon that we will really struggle to carve out a niche. Also ground/fairy has good neutral coverage but doesnt really hit that many things super effectively, which raises large problems for us

 

[YellowAdminSilver]

Alright, so. I left and came back so I haven't been able to read thru all of the proposals thus far, apologies in advance if I repeat what has already been said.

With the direction that we're currently headed in, I think the typing needs to accomplish or at least assist in three goals: forcing out top threats in the CAP meta, dissuading Bisharp from coming in on us, and having some degree of resiliency towards entry hazards. Having a typing that resists Fairy (because we all know how valuable a Fairy check is in this meta) would also be a boon, but maybe less so than the first two points.

For the first point, since offensive presence has been mentioned ad nauseum, it's important to choose a typing that can naturally force out common threats seen in CAP; mainly thinking of Clefable, Tomohawk, Colossoil, Cyclohm and Sableye. I tried to focus on stuff commonly seen on balance builds and the like, and purposefuly left out Cawmodore (who's only ever used super late-game so idk why you'd be tring to pivot on that) as well as stuff like Volk and Mollux who are mostly seen with a Scarf. Yes this list is not exhaustive but I think it's decent enough. Out of the mons mentioned above, 4/5 are weak to Fairy and 3/5 are weak to Ice, two very good offensive typings in CAP with great neutral coverage and a limited number of resists.

On the second point, the need to threaten Bisharp is self-explanatory. In this regard, I believe Fighting and Ground are the best ways to accomplish this. Unlike Fire and its nasty Stealth Rock weakness, both typings resist rocks, which is an added bonus for a pivot. However, Ground strikes me as superior since it isn't weak to the ever-common Fairy and Flying, as well as being neutral to Aurumoth's main STAB.

Finally, I don't wanna focus too much on the entry hazard resistance because there are a bunch of other ways to mitigate hazard damage (wink wink Syclant), I do think that it's important, with the amount of switching that this mon is going to be doing, to at least not be weak to Stealth Rock. A secondary Ground typing sounds like a decent enough solution.

That being said, I think two typings spring to mind: Fairy/Ground and Ice/Ground. A fast Fairy/Ground-type threatens Tomohawk, Colossoil, Diancie, Sableye, Crucibelle, Cyclohm, Keldeo, Metagross and Megazard X, and that's just from the S and A+ ranks on the VR thread. It also prevents Bisharp from switching in for free with STAB EQ/EP while resisting rocks and Knock Off/Sucker Punch from Colo and the aforementioned Bisharp. On the other hand, Ice/Ground trades the Rock and Dark resistances for neutralities and overall hits less threats super effectively than Fairy/Ground does, but can at least hit Cawmodore neutrally with STAB Ice-type attacks. Furhtermore, both typings have great two-move coverage, freeing up the other two slots for either coverage+PS or utility+PS and reducing the incentive to go for an all-out attacker set. A relevant example would be Mamoswine I guess, which commonly runs two Ice-type moves or even Stealth Rock over wider coverage.

Speaking of Caw, at some point we're gonna have to talk about potentially giving CAP some strong Fire coverage, but that's another subject.

 

[Earth Traveler]

Well, I'm probably going to end up repeating a lot what's been said so far, but here goes:

What I've noticed:

• CAP22 needs to counter/check Bisharp
• CAP22 needs to resist/be neutral to entry hazards (e.g. Stealth Rock)
  
• It needs to resist Pursuit
• And it needs to deter priority

That's a pretty tall order to fit on one Pokemon in two types. With very few types resisting Dark, that automatically constricts the construction of the CAP. Furthermore, due to the mechanic of Parting Shot degrading the user's stats against Magic Bounce and switching the Bouncer, I feel like Rebound Colossoil could potentially be a common switch-in to try to cripple CAP22. The reason I'm bringing this up is that the opponent of CAP22 could in this circumstance switch to, say, Bisharp, forcing the weakened CAP22 to either dry switch and eat Pursuit, attack and get hit by Sucker Punch, or Parting Shot and give Bisharp +3 Attack. So to maintain offensive pressure and avoid something similar to this happening, I believe CAP22 absolutely needs both a Dark resist AND the ability to hit Bisharp/Colossoil super-effectively, so I think CAP22 should at least be Fighting type.

For the secondary typing, I'm torn between Ground and Fairy. Ground typing would hit Mollux, Plasmanta, Cyclohm (which would also be hit by Fairy), and Volkraken - in short, it seems Ground hits mostly offensive Pokemon, along with the blanket check Cyclohm. Fairy would hit Cyclohm (again), Tomohawk, Colossoil (repeated from Fighting), Rotom-W, Tornadus, and Lando-T all for neutral damage. So I guess to penetrate more blanket checks and generally "goodstuff" Pokemon, I'd have to go with Fairy/Fighting for CAP22.

 

[Agile Turtle]

• CAP22 needs to counter/check Bisharp
• CAP22 needs to resist/be neutral to entry hazards (e.g. Stealth Rock)
  
• It needs to resist Pursuit
• And it needs to deter priority

It doesn't need to counter nor check bisharp, it just needs to not get screwed over by Bisharp. As a pivot, you don't want it weak to stealth rock, and you also don't want it to be risky to use. If CAP22 is weak to bisharp, Bisharp will screw it over big time, and what good is a pivot if it's risky to use. Pivots are low risk and general so Bisharp completely shutting it down hampers it's usefulness as a pivot by a large margin. But it doesn't need to be able to counter bisharp in order to not get screwed over by it. It doesn't even need to be able to switch into it, let alone counter it.

As long as Bisharp doesn't screw it over it's fine. It doesn't need any specific STAB to avoid being screwed over by bisharp. If it gets a good defensive typing like Water/Fairy or Electric/Fairy, it wont be weak to Bisharp. And any semidecent fighting coverage move (Aura Sphere or even brickbreak) is enough to deter bisharp from switching in.

I'd just like to throw my hat in the ring for Water/Fairy and Electric/Fairy.

They're both pretty nice defensive types for a pivot. They resist dark type moves, most notably Pursuit, Knock Off, and Sucker Punch, and they aren't weak to Bisharp's steel STAB, and not weak to priority bullet punch.

Generally, I think slow and bulky is the way to go. Bringing in a sweeper for free is incredibly helpful, especially for the more frail setup sweepers. Before megaluke was banned I used to actually use pangoro in OU in order to support megaluke. It wasn't the best thing and pangoro had a lot of flaws, but it still helped to mitigate Luke's biggest weakness: fraility. Being able to bring luke in much more safely to set up Swords Dance and sweep was pretty effective, and very fun. The problem was that pangoro just wasn't very defensive. It didn't have a good defensive type nor good enough bulk. If we just make a bulky mon with a good defensive type, we're solid. It can support any setup sweeper effectively, and hold its own as a bulky pivot.

I don't want to poll jump and say we have to either go slow and bulky nor do I like how everyone else says it has to be fast, but these typings are good no matter what the future holds for CAP22. It's good if it goes in either direction. The defensive capabilities satisfy me, and they satisfy others who want it fast. The types are a bit more defensive than offensive, and while some people really want it to lean more offensive, its type is still solid for offensive because it is anti priority, resisting sucker punch and mach punch, neutral to bullet punch, and neutral to birdspam for water/fairy, and resistant to birdspam for electric/fairy (EDIT: also Water/Fairy resists Aqua Jet and Electric/Fairy is neutral to it). That's undeniably helpful. People also want spammable STABs: scald is one of the most spammable moves in the meta, and thunderbolt+moonblast is a strong combo. No matter what direction we go with CAP22, Water/Fairy and Electric/Fairy are both beneficial to its role.

 

[Alfalfa]

I personally think Fairy / Anything is a bad typing for this CAP. Our CAP needs super effective coverage against a vast number of targets in order to maintain the offensive pressure needed for a mon that plans to use Parting Shot, and it needs to do that in less than three moveslots. Fairy / Anything aims more for neutral coverage, which is good for most offensive Pokemon but not for one that needs to apply an offensive pressure that relies on super effective hits. Fighting / certain secondary typing can work because Fighting, when combined with at least two other moveslots, can hit most of an entire metagame super effectively; see Fighting / Ice / Electric or Fighting / Ice / Dark. You could talk about other three type coverage combos, but Fighting typing gives a resistance to Sucker Punch and Stealth Rock, two traits that our CAP is really going to want to have in order to function as a pivot, though a neutrality to Stealth Rock is manageable at worst.

 

[YellowAdminSilver]

Well, first of all, let me say that I read thru the rest of the posts on this thread and I feel really validated that a ton of other people arrived at the same conclusion as me with Fairy/Ground.

I personally think Fairy / Anything is a bad typing for this CAP.

Fairy / Anything aims more for neutral coverage.

While I also have my doubts about Fairy typings (mainly because of giving Caw a free setup if we don't give CAP Fire Blast and being weak to Scizor's Bullet Punch), I couldn't disagree more with this bit.

Fairy/Anything has stupid super effective coverage in CAP, especially when combined with Ground. Going off of 1760 stats, Fairy hits three of the top four Pokémon in usage (Colossoil, Tomohawk and Cyclohm) super effectively, as well as ten of the top thirty. When you make that Fairy/Ground, the number skyrockets to 19 of the top 30, including seven of the top ten (assuming you count Stratagem, even if Levitate Strata also exists).

Mons which are hit super effectively by Fairy/Ground

1- Colossoil
2-Tomohawk
3-Crucibelle-Mega
4-Cyclohm
6-Stratagem*
7-Kitsunoh
10-Mollux
12-Volkraken
13-Jirachi
17-Arghonaut
18-Keldeo
20-Krillowatt
21-Garchomp
22-Volcanion
23-Latios
24-Diancie-Mega
25-Revenankh
26-Sableye-Mega
28-Gyarados-Mega

Obviously not all of these are going to be forced out 100% of the time by CAP, but when you can hit the opposing mon super-effectively around 60% of the time with just two moveslots, you'll do just fine. Throw in Fire coverage for Caw and Scizor or Grass coverage for bulky waters and you're pretty much set.

 

[boxofkangaroos]

First off, Bisharp. When you have a Bisharp on your team, what's the one type you really don't want to switch into? Fighting. This also solves the problem of resisting Pursuit. So, let's call Fighting our first type. Let's see a list of all the secondary types we could have, keepping Pursuit and Bisharp in mind.

• Normal
• Fire
• Water
• Electric
• Grass
• Ice Weak to Bisharp
• Fighting It's our first type
• Poison
• Ground
• Flying
• Psychic Weak to Pursuit and Bisharp
• Bug
• Rock Weak to bisharp
• Ghost Weak to Pursuit and Bisharp
• Dragon
• Dark
• Steel
• Fairy

Second, we'll tackle Priority. Here's a list of damaging priority moves from Bulbapedia:
Fake Out, Extreme Speed, Feint, Aqua Jet, Bide, Bullet Punch, Ice Shard, Mach Punch, Quick Attack, Shadow Sneak, Sucker Punch, Vacuum Wave, Water Shuriken. Taking this into account, let's see the list.

• Normal Does not deter priority
• Fire Does not deter priority
• Water Does not deter priority
• Electric Does not deter priority
• Grass Does not deter priority
• Ice Weak to Bisharp
• Fighting It's our first type
• Poison - Not weak to any priority, deters Fighting-types
• Ground Does not deter priority
• Flying - Not weak to any priority, deters Fighting-types
• Psychic Weak to Pursuit and Bisharp
• Bug - Not weak to any priority, deters Fighting-types
• Rock Weak to bisharp
• Ghost Weak to Pursuit and Bisharp
• Dragon Does not deter priority
• Dark Does not deter priority
• Steel - Deters Normal and Water priority
• Fairy - Not weak to any priority, deters Fighting-types

So, we're down to Poison, Flying, Bug, Steel, and Fairy. Before hazards, let's think about defensive typing. How many weaknesses would each combination have? How many resistances? Let's see.

• Fighting/Poison: Weaknesses: Ground, Flying, 4x Psychic. Resistances: Grass, Fighting, Poison, 1/4x Bug, Rock, Dark
• Fighting/Flying: Weaknesses: Electric, Ice, Flying, Psychic, Fairy. Resistances: Grass, Fighting, 1/4x Bug, Dark
  
• Fighting/Bug: Weaknesses: Fire, 4x Flying, Psychic, Fairy. Resistances: Grass, Fighting, Ground, Bug, Dark
  
• Fighting/Steel: Weaknesses: Fire, Fighting, Ground. Resistances: Normal, Grass, Ice, 0x Poison, 1/4x Bug, 1/4x Rock, Dragon, Dark, Steel
  
• Fighting/Fairy: Weaknesses: Poison, Flying, Psychic, Steel, Fairy. Resistances: Fighting, 1/4x Bug, Rock, 0x Dragon, 1/4x Dark

We really don't want 4x weaknesses for something like this. We need it to be able to get in there and do its job without any issues. So, Poison and Bug are out. Fighting/Steel is a great defensive typing, so that could be good.

Finally, we have entry hazards. Flying-types aren't affected by Spikes or Toxic Spikes, so that's a big plus. However, Fighting/Steel is barely affected by Stealth Rock or Toxic Spikes. Fairy has none of those advantages.

So, in conclusion, if we want a great defensive typing, we should go with Fighting/Steel. If we don't, maybe the great STAB selection and Ground immunity of the Fighting/Flying type is better.

Fighting/Flying is weak to Ice Shard. But either way, I don't think a weakness to one or more priority moves should completely invalidate a certain typing.