Lower Tiers RBY Ubers Viability Rankings (2015 to 2018)

[Mr.E]

Well that's the same as OU except you'll probably see fewer Thunder Waves actually, since I doubt there are many Mew/two running around with it. But then Zam doesn't reliably 2HKO Tauros either and doesn't have base 106/90 physical bulk. *shrug* It does outspeed Mew naturally too, that's cool.

 

[Lutra]

Well actually, Thunder Wave Mew is very good to mitigate other Mew's chances (try to force an even trade with them booming). Reflect + Thunder Wave, Softboiled + Transform is what I'd call the standard Mew set. Transform will probably have to be banned because of infinite PP dittos, but something like Thunder Wave, Swords Dance, Softboiled, Earthquake is not a bad compromise when this tier isn't full of birds.

Not an arguments against Tauros though - it wouldn't want to screw up its chances by switching into a body slam and proceeding to get FPed. It's important to recognise when Tauros is played badly and that this is a new tier environment for skill. I think Tauros is pretty good at taking out the minor pieces which support the ubers (even it's hard to switch in), with it's high speed and CH ratio (yes, it's exhilarating though because it could not end up doing enough, e.g. by getting crit back). I feel Snorlax is correctly ranked a little higher due to getting a bit more chance, thanks to chansey's weakness to boom (light screen chansey), to paraslam and get sufficient opportunities to boom. Snorlax's weaknesses are that it can't really pull of resting well consistently, and as has been said, it doesn't get much chance to boom on the defensive, and can therefore be predictable.

About Mewtwo Psychic on Slowbro, I like the crit being a 3HKO, because you can force it to rest quickly, not suffering much PP loss, allowing you to go to your own Slowbro or whatever.

Regarding the viability rankings, I'd like to know what cores are viable versus the classic Chansey and Slowbro combo, because I'm guessing Starmie is a question mark of even being viable (is a fast poor man's slowbro useful?) if everything ranked lower is compared to it. Ortheore is correct in that the classic core restricts teamslots, but the question is whether or not you keep the same high chances by abandoning it partially. I have no doubt you can beat lots of players without it, but I'm asking for: for and against using it in various scenarios.

 

[Ortheore]

In my experience Tauros works nicely as an early game "wallbreaker". It's a bit inconsistent but it's capable of doing serious damage to anything that switches in, though it's mostly going to be hitting things like Egg and Bro.

I guess it comes down to what approach you want to take- Chansey/Bro is very passive, while simply substituting Lax>blob can make for a very aggressive team. Personally when I think of aggressive teams I think they have a good matchup against Bro/Chansey because Chansey is demolished by those teams, while Bro is easily pressured into Resting, which creates an opening for SD Mew or w/e. The real issue for aggro teams is dealing with defensive Mew imo.

idk I just feel listing a core and describing matchup isn't the best way to go about it. I'd rather look at the overarching strategy behind a given team choice- which is usually between boom offense and stall

 

[Lutra]

Updated the OP by making an OP rank for Mew and Mewtwo (to make a better comparison to OU) and placed Chansey, Slowbro, Snorlax and Zapdos in S.

 

[Golden Gyarados]

Just adding a few thoughts after glancing through this. I didn't have much experience with Ubers when this thread first appeared but I have a bit more now. A few folks are saying Tauros doesn't really belong on/show up on Ubers teams, but I do still see value from it as a paralysis spreader in the late game - if your usual suspects are out of commission (Chansey, your sleeper, Eggy) and you need to put SOME kind of status on Mew or Mewtwo to even stand a chance. It does a chunk of damage against both with its high crit rate, and if you get lucky with crits/fps you can give yourself a fighting chance. Tauros is DEFINITELY less reliable, consistent, and mandatory than he is in OU, but in a pinch he's handy to have around.

I do think Gengar needs to be on this list. I pretty much never see Starmie in Ubers and Zam is rare, so Gengar's lead matchups are WAAAAAY better here than they are in OU, in that he pretty much outspeeds all of the other potential leads. If you find out that your opposing Snorlax and/or Mew only have Normal type attacks - which isn't uncommon in my experience (Swords Dance/Reflect/Softboiled/Body Slam Mew showed up at some point in virtually ALL my Mewbers matchups, at least, but I also have seen it in Ubers battles too) - Gengar's immunity is ridiculously helpful. Gengar also is useful against Slowbro - Tbolt can crit, Confuse Ray can work if you're desperate to keep it from Resting/Amnesiaing/whatever, and boom can take its health down a bit to hopefully let something clean it up - that's not nothing. I think it's B rank. You should ONLY run it in the lead spot, and Jynx is usually better, but Gengar isn't chopped liver.

 

[Lutra]

Added Gengar to B Rank. In the near future, I am planning to organize some testing of sets for Ubers, Stadium and even Mewbers maybe, so we can get some useful sets and analyses on site. There's players still using Earthquake / Hyper Beam / Softboiled / Swords Dance Mew. I want to change that, despite it making my Mew set less effective.

 

[eden]

I just want to make a note here that Gengar maybe should rise a little, considering that it has decent lead mu's and even vs a bad lead mu like jynx, you have the option of exploding(which has like a 98% chance to KO) which potentially opens up, room for Mewtwo(by removing one method of wasting PP) and also gives you momentum to a certain extent. hell in this meta where boom+para checks a good deal of prominent threats, gar's being able to absorb booms, and then explode when its use is over comes in clutch.

Also want to not that Mew can potentially be on par with m2, because imo its more versatile. With lutrew, SD Reflect, SD EQ all being solid viable sets. While Mewtwo...is usually just Amnesia setup which while extremely effective, is very possible to prepare for ahead of time, while mew can be tailored more to w/e you want it to do.

Also dropping Chansey is a very doable thing in this meta, if you have some sort of strategy revolving round an end game with lots of paras/booms to stop Mewtwo from having room to set up, Tauros is something that comes to mind and is actually a very decent cleaner especially if para is spread around, and Zapdos here arguably shines because of how rare(read never seen goldon are). I realize that tauros/zap are high in vrs but just want to note this!

 

[Lutra]

Moved Gengar to A-, Starmie to B for now. Still wondering if Zapdos is actually S or A+.

 

[eden]

I think Zapdos/Tauros are amazing if under explored on your typical RBY Ubers team. I'm leaning towards S for Zapdos, especially in a meta with next to no Goldon, and where the typical switch ins like Chansey hate TWave(increases chance of even LS Chans losing to M2 via FP's), and also forces Slowbro out with the threat of thunderbolt, which lets Mewtwo have a relatively more free reign. Want to note that paralysis in ubers is even more damning then it is in RBY OU.

 

[Lutra]

Updated slightly and put Golem and Rhydon in A. I'm more or less happy with how the Pokémon are ranked so far.

I was thinking about putting Articuno in B, but I want to try out Lapras first.

 

[Beelzemon 2003]

Good work Lutra, I think the list is very accurate. By the way, I think Electrode is also viable in Gen 1 Ubers since it is faster than Mewtwo and can paralyze it, giving Chansey an easy time stalling it, also, in the case Chansey gets frozen, you can simply switch to your own Mewtwo and continue to stall.

Electrode can also paralyze the lead sleeper and absorb sleep or explode on it. Finally, Electrode can paralyze Chansey, Mew, Starmie, Tauros and Zapdos to make them easier to predict and kill.

I wouldn´t go as far as saying Electrode should be on all teams, but I´m sure he is good despite the fact that it is walled by Rhydon and Golem.

 

[Lutra]

Thank you.

Thing is being able to take an attack, paralyze and heal up is better than being faster, so Chansey (especially Light Screen), Mew and Slowbro (if Mewtwo isn't Tbolt) do Thunder Waving better in my opinion. Its Explosion doesn't even deal 50% damage to Mewtwo, which is also unfortunate. I'm pretty sure it's outclassed in practice.

Maybe your Chansey gets frozen, your Mewtwo got parahaxed and is on low health, and Electrode needs to Thunder Wave their Mewtwo and get crit so it survives, then screeches it before fainting, and your Mewtwo now outspeeds the opponent's, so you have a chance to hang in there?

 

[Mr.E]

If Articuno is hot garbage, Electrode is a dumpster fire. Come back in Gen 2 when your Explosion resembles something vaguely lethal.

What does Goldon do other than counter theoretically less common Zapdos? Golem's Explosion is neat I guess, and uhh maybe Rest Rhydon soft counters mono-attack Mew, but Mew and Mewtwo are bulkier than Starmie and especially Zam, so Goldon doesn't universally threaten a PAR-laden team like they do in OU. I don't think RBY Ubers, with its addition of two entire mons, significantly alters the viability of anything that regularly shows its face in OU, but still I would think them as... not exactly the winners of the slight viability shifts each mon would experience.

What does Starmie have over Zam in Ubers other than the usual differences, i.e. mostly being just physically bulky enough to annoy Tauros (and Golem) and it has the advantage on Slowbro (favored odds of critting Tbolt before Slowbro manages to boost and kill it). Zam's more reliable at slapping a PAR on Mewtwo, since it can't randomly die to Mewtwo packing Tbolt itself, but I suppose I'd buy the idea that Slowbro sees a big enough bump in usage to justify leaning toward using Starmie between the two.

 

[Lusch]

From my experience I could gain from the ladder this month (in battles where I fought an actual Ubers Team) the meta looks to me like two approaches are worth going for.

The defensive approach that tries to freeze opposing Mewtwo and stacks on Special boosting Pokemon to do so. Slowbro and Light Screen Chansey are seen on those teams to play the freeze war with Mewtwo and either freeze it themselves or get frozen, that way your own Mewtwo does not get frozen. Paralysis leads are not favourable for the gameplan of those teams because they might unwillingly paralyze Mewtwo and the team then lacks Pokemon that expliot it (mostly only have Mew to do so). That means sleeper leads are the play. Jynx and Gengar are the obvious choices.

The agressive approach that tries to pressure the opposing teams with paralysis and physical attacks. you can fit a Rhydon or a Golem (Rhydon still 3HKOs the Ubers which Golem does not/rarely in Mewtwo's case, but Golem's Explosion is nice as ever) on those teams, as well as a Zapdos if you are too worried about Slowbro. Those type of teams want to spread paralysis as much as possible, even on Mewtwo, because you don't even want to play the freeze war with your own Mewtwo. T-Wave Mew fits those teams well since it can get PARs on opponents really consistently. As a Lead I guess you cold run something that can paralyze stuff as well as a sleeper, so Alakzam and Starmie probably belong on more agressive teams.

It is not easy to come up with rankings.
Mewtwo is obviously No.1, Mew No.2
I'd say Snorlax No.3 and belongs on basically every team as well. Chansey is obviously very good and I'd say it's No.4
Slowbro is also great in this tier because of physical bulk and Amnesia, I think Thunderbolt on Mewtwo should be roughly as common as Psychic.
Gengar and Jynx are both better than in OU, especially Gengar, since its fast sleep is worth far more and it can wall non-EQ Mew and Snorlax
Zapdos is not too bad vs Mew and obviously Slowbro and Chansey, making it usable. Rhydon can pressure a paralyzed team, while Golem gies another Zapdos answer. Exeggutor is also very good, still the reliable sleeper with bulk to take an attack and Explosion, which is way more important here than in OU. Tauros is still usable, especially if it can come in to revenge kill one of the Ubers (Mewtwo needs to be paralyzed obv) after an Explosion or something.

 

[Questions Frog]

Welcome to the RBY Ubers Viability Ranking Thread! If you're not familiar with the concept, we place Pokémon in ranks, based on how necessary they are on highly competitive teams. It will hopefully give you a good impression of the tier, to help with teambuilding. Pokémon are sorted alphabetically within each rank.

If you feel that a Pokémon is misplaced, feel free to make a post about it – that's what this thread is for.

Tier Format:

• Banned Moves: Dig, Double Team, Fissure, Fly, Guillotine, Horn Drill, Minimize (Evasion + Invulnerability + OHKO moves).
• Clauses: Freeze Clause, Sleep Clause, Species Clause.

OP Rank

These Pokemon are overpowered for the RBY OU tier and dominate the RBY Ubers tier. They should be used on every single serious team.

OP+

Mewtwo – Fast boosting special tank and physical wall – best Mewtwo and Slowbro check; can 2HKO lots of threats after an amnesia boost.

OP-

Mew – Physical sweeper, mixed wall, paralysis spreader, transformer and boomer – best fellow Mew check; scariest threat for standard ubers teams.

S Rank

These Pokemon excel at their roles in the RBY Ubers tier to such a point that you find numerous of them on serious teams.

S-

Chansey – Special wall, status spreader and freeze absorber – Mewtwo and Slowbro check.

Slowbro – Slow boosting special tank, physical wall and paralysis spreader – Mew and Mewtwo (unreliable against Thunderbolt) check.

Snorlax – Mixed tank, paralysis spreader (via Body Slam) and boomer. – Threatens paralyzed Chansey.

Zapdos - Mixed bulky sweeper, screener, paralysis spreader. – Checks Chansey and Slowbro.

A Rank

These Pokemon are exceptional at their roles, performing significant roles in the RBY Ubers tier, and are found on many serious teams.

A+

Exeggutor – Sleeper, paralysis spreader, boomer, psychic and ground resist.

Tauros - Fast physical tank & paralysis spreader (via Body Slam).

A-

Gengar – Fast sleeper, normal resist, weak boomer. – checks Slowbro, counters mono-normal attacking Mew / Snorlax.

Golem – Zapdos counter, normal resist. Less tankier version of Rhydon that can boom.

Jynx – Lead, sleeper, ice resist, psychic resist and sleep absorber.

Rhydon - Zapdos counter, normal resist. Hits hard with Earthquake/Rock Slide and can threaten paralysis with Body Slam.

B Rank

These Pokémon have effective roles in the RBY Ubers tier and are common less used alternatives to S Rank and A Rank Pokémon in serious teams.

B-

Starmie – Fast twaver, Psychic & ice resist, screen abuser, freeze absorber. – stalls non-Thunderbolt Mewtwo.

I do think the use of OP rank above S is an exaggeration at best. Keeping it consistent with other rankings, I see no problem with S rank being the actual Ubers, and A rank onwards being the mere mortals that populate OU. I'm not even going to argue about the order in which they are ranked, but I'm sure other people would be happy to do so. I just think the OP rank should be called S rank, and everything below the old OP being shifted half a ranking down, with Chansey, Snorlax, Slowbro and Zapdos being A+ and so on.

 

[Lutra]

I do think the use of OP rank above S is an exaggeration at best. Keeping it consistent with other rankings, I see no problem with S rank being the actual Ubers, and A rank onwards being the mere mortals that populate OU. I'm not even going to argue about the order in which they are ranked, but I'm sure other people would be happy to do so. I just think the OP rank should be called S rank, and everything below the old OP being shifted half a ranking down, with Chansey, Snorlax, Slowbro and Zapdos being A+ and so on.

Reduce the body of text to the relevant part please when you quote a post. Its purpose is not exaggeration; it is to show that RBY OU is a subset of RBY Ubers, and both tiers are in the same tier level (i.e. there's no mass Pokémon bans that separate the two tiers). I guess reserving S for Ubers/BL tiers and having A as maximum in 'balanced' tiers, would be a better solution. Also, having missing ranks could show large drop-offs in viability. I haven't visited this thread prior to this in over a year, as you can see, so I am not working on improving it at the moment.

 

[Lutra]

The ranking continues here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-ubers-viability-ranking-2019.3656629/ (I solved some problems).